Should you buy a Macbook Pro in the USA before VAT taxes are implemented? [Archive]

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 08:44 PM

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

actually I was reading about VAT in the US, and honestly, we might need it. Its something we should look at.

But that said, I wouldn't factor it into my Apple buying purchases, it would be a while before it was enacted.(I'd bet we'd see it go through the process, and even then it I'd imagine it be like raising minimum wage, we'd get "on X date" VAT will be add to things.

Basically you're in the clear for a while

I know its coming forsure, United States is broke, 70% of our GDP is consumption.

Even Obama said in a speech that were broke thats why the Feds are printing money out of thin air trillions of dollars worth. And now their buying up their own treasuries and bonds. Thats the final stage before hyperinflation sets in.

Every civilization that prints more money than they have in reserves (not to mention the huge derivatives from the banks in loans, mortgages, student loans) for the past decades (ever since we got off the gold standard) were screwed.

Anyway, I know computers is the last thing we need if such things happen but looking on the bright side if things some how magically get better and if only if the tooth fairy saves us I'm thinking about buying a macbook pro soon before the VAT taxes.

It will have VAT on apple products especially notebooks as their all imported into the US from China.

lag1090

Jun 10, 2009, 08:59 PM

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 09:53 PM

I will begin by stating that taxation is usually an economically regressive move. While it is a necessary measure to fund government activities, the institution of taxes generally does not stimulate the economy.

As such, imposing VAT in addition to sales tax will just deplete the available funds of workers across the nation, further worsening our economic outlook. On the other hand, replacing sales tax with VAT is an interesting idea. However, it is much more likely that such changes would be made after conditions improve.

There is a good reason why such information is not included in the unemployment rating. It is a defined set of data that contribute to the rate.

As defined by the International Labor Organization (whose standards the Bureau of Labor Statistics follows):

http://laborsta.ilo.org/applv8/data/c3e.html

The unemployment rate is different than the total impact of economic downturn on the workforce. It is only a measure of those criteria.

As you can see, bankruptcy appears to have a smaller effect than you would expect in some aspects.

We've already experienced the greatest depression in America. You might have heard of it. It's called the Great Depression for a reason, you know.

As of right now, we are not in a full-blown depression. The economy is currently in the recession phase. I'm not saying the situation is not bad, I'm merely stating that it does not meet the criteria of being classified as a depression.

According to Wikipedia:

"Definition of depression includes two general rules: 1) a decline in real GDP exceeding 10%, and 2) a recession lasting 3 or more years."

Since the recession officially began in December 2007, a mere 19 months ago, and annual GDP decline over the past year is estimated at around 6%, it is clear that the US is not quite yet in a depression.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-gdp-revised-to-57-decline-in-first-quarter

Can't believe those networks, but MSN Money is a-OK? What makes them exempt from any possible media deception?

I agree.

Hey I tried to warn you guys and its ok I'm prepared for hyperinflation. When the us dollar your holding becomes worthless after a banking holiday later this year, dont blame anyone but yourself when you starve to death.

Try investigating on Argentina, Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe, Iceland, were going to meet the same fate.

China wont lend us any more money its only a matter of 6 months to a year until hyperinflation. Our us dollars are going to be worthless.

I'm sure you know as well that the federal reserve is the problem in our government

Ever since 1971 when we got off the gold standard, thats when inflation started.

Everyone knows that the government causes inflation and thats just a secret tax on the people.

The 1 dollar bill now is worth 2 cents from 30 years ago.

I hope you also know that in our constitution and by supreme court ruling, the american people are not obligated to pay income taxes as well. But the IRS thugs makes us so we do so we wont go to jail.

Anyways I find it very interesting that not many people are not awake yet. Do some research on whats really going on in the United States. Because when hyperinflation and the collapse of the dollar comes sometime next year, you wont go into shock when you realize you have lost everything.

As for the great depression, back then GM motors wasnt bankrupt, we actually had factories and the worlds largest manufacturer of many goods and automobiles and had a surplus savings which got us out of the depression. But now in America were called a service economy (which doesnt work btw) with a national debt of almost 15 trillion and probably nearly 20 trillion dollars by the end of this year as well as over 500 trillion dollar debt in derivatives in credit.

Our cpi index is a joke our government doesnt even consider food and energy in the index as well as we dont manufacture anything. While our fake GDP is 70% consumption we only grow corn, soy beans and beef and thats it.

Just look in your house and see where everything is made from. I bet you its 80% china and rest from India, Japan, South Korea. Also it was due to the feds intervening that caused the problems as well.

Also they didnt print money back then, but we are printing up trillions of dollars and billions of dollars per week, day I would even say to pay the chines and the rest of the world the interest we owe them from borrowing trillions.

Its simple really if you look into every civilization, when you start printing money out of thin air your money becomes worthless. Its a fact, it has happened countless time and the United States is about to default on the dollar as well.

This is going to be the greatest depression anyone has ever seen.

quagmire

Jun 10, 2009, 09:54 PM

It's all planned out anyway. We're paving our way to the Amero. :cool:

Frankly, in all seriousness I would welcome a North American Union to go against the EU.

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 09:59 PM

It's all planned out anyway. We're paving our way to the Amero. :cool:

Frankly, in all seriousness I would welcome a North American Union to go against the EU.

I wouldnt because we wouldnt be going up against the EU. We would be part of them as a one world government, the new world order.

The elites plans are to get rid of physical money all together and its easier if they make a one world government.

Those RFID chips will be implemented on everyone and it will contain your digital money, personal info and will be kept track of.

Everything you buy, your health records will be tracked and if you go against the government they can turn off your rfid chip and your cast away from society.

mactastic

Jun 10, 2009, 10:08 PM

They know a VAT tax is coming very soon.
Define "very soon".

lord patton

Jun 10, 2009, 10:10 PM

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 10:12 PM

Define "very soon".

I would have to say judging by the way, China and the rest of the world has stopped buying our bonds and issuing our needed credit, US borrows 3 billion a day to run our economy, about 12 or more states now are on the verge of collapse following california, and the state I'm in right now Texas has talks about secession sometime in the near future, I'd say sometime later this year possibly or early next year.

The economy will look a little better in the next couple of months due to the feds pumping in trillions of dollars they created out of thin air or punched in their computers into the market but once the bond bubble bursts it'll take the whole system and economy out.

One interesting thing is that there are economists say that the dow jones and s&p 500 could sky rocket to 20,000 points or more but our dollar will become worthless.

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 10:16 PM

ok, I think you're a little over the top, but woe is us, I don't think you're that far off base.

Yes, we are in for inflation, yes, countries are (and increasingly will) run from the dollar, yes, the Fed is printing a lot of money and we're not going to reign in M1 without some serious hurt.

And I think you're correct that taxes are going to go up, and it won't just be for the top 5% :rolleyes:

I don't think Apple gives one hoot about any of this, however, not as far as their pricing goes.

But since you're sure the dollar is over within the calendar year, tell us, what currencies and commodities should I invest my daughter's 529 in?

You should follow up on what Gerald Celente, Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Max Keiser, Jim Rogers, Marc Faber saids buy commodities.

Buy gold and silver it'll be the safe haven. When the dollar collapses a new barter system would emerge with silver and gold coins again.

Get out of the us bonds, cds, stock market.

Its interesting Max Keiser has worked at the stock market for 25 years and not too sure what program he wrote that they use today but anyways he saids that usually the managers, ceos all get the big profits while the small crumbs gets thrown to the share holders. Basically they'll take bonuses and gamble more with your profits and let you reap a little. The house always win basically.

Jim Rogers even moved out of the usa 2 years ago and he and marc faber saids the US will 100% see hyperinflation like zimbabwe style.

Jim Rogers saids Asia is the new super power and it has started since 2007. Asian stock markets will do much better and the turn of the century is here. 1807 it was europe, 1907 it was america and now 2007 its Asia.

Pretty much were going to see a similar out look as to the collapse of the soviet union. You know were not so different than soviet union.

The states will break and have its own sovereignty. California is already the beginning of being screwed.

If you value your daughter and your family I urge you to buy some precious metals. At least get hedged for this massive inflation waiting for us. I mean zimbabwe didnt even nearly print as much as we did (even though it is smaller state than the whole united states) but a loaf of bread there costs something like 200 trillion dollars I believe.

Look at argentina... my god they lived better than we did and was wealthier, now their in the streets due to bank of america, jp morgan, citi bank bankrupted their country.

Check out a documentary recently released by the argentinian government. Its shocking I had no idea! Wow thats how great main media is here in the united states, where what Britney spears does is important. I've woken up already and all that crap is useless.

Television is useless, all the news stations lie to you. They dont even cover what is really important in this world. I think their not allowed to as all the major corporations own them anyways so the news anchors always have to follow what the masters say or else they'll get fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs&feature=PlayList&p=C46D4D71A019C91E&index=0

Rodimus Prime

Jun 10, 2009, 10:25 PM

mactastic

Jun 10, 2009, 10:27 PM

I'd say sometime later this year possibly or early next year.
Duly noted.

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 10:32 PM

You do know if the dollar collospse the entire world is going to go with it.

over 70% of all comerinse in the world is done in dollars.

Also you forget that only 30% of all the dollars out there on in the US. The rest is all over the world.

Lastly you can not take out the number 1 economy in the world and not expect everyone else to fall down as well.

This is the misconception we have.

The world might suffer a little bit but most of them have huge amounts of surpluses and have alot of factories for work and can probably start doing business with each other.

Peter Schiff (you should read his book crash proof amazing detailed book about our foundations are the problem) saids that if the rest of the world dumps the dollar they'll be fine. Because they can do their business with each other and exclude the us and not accept our money anymore since china has something like 2.1 trillion in reserves and assets already thats devaluing everyday, russia already dumped it and went to the ruble, south korea and japan each has something like 600-700 billion dollars in bonds.

Actually the us dollar is making china's yuan weaker as they have to ship to us since we consume so much. If they drop our dollar their yuan will suddenly get much more valuable and they can do business with other rich resourced countries. China is already buying up tons of gold for reserve (they increased from 403 tonnes of gold 5 years ago to 1050 tonnes and latest news saids they bought another 1000 tonnes, same as russia and brazil.

They'll continue to use the yuan and do business with brazil, Venezuela, and now the chinese people will get more oil because the united states consumes 50% of the worlds reserves alone and now that'll get evenly distributed to asia and more chinese people that saved their money will have more purchasing power and instead of riding bicycles they can afford to buy a car. Cheaper gas prices as well there.

Finally the rest of the world is flooded with trillions of us dollars and we've printed up trillions at home too. What are you talking about? We in the last year printed up something like 6-8 trillion dollars to bail out all the banks. You sir have no freaking clue whats going on.

Even the Feds wont show their balance sheet, what do you think H.R. 1207 is all about to audit the fed which has now 209 co signers from Ron Paul.

The fed saids their above the constitution and congress. That is seriously messed up. Wake up man do some research.

zap2

Jun 10, 2009, 10:35 PM

This is the misconception we have.

The world might suffer a little bit but most of them have huge amounts of surpluses and have alot of factories for work and can probably start doing business with each other.
.

Sources please(not saying true or false, we just need sources)

You're view of the world seems to be that America is just taking things in..you know we send out goods too right?

Also you're argument is that "trade will go on" if the dollar fails...of course, but to what amount and when? We don't know. What will replace it? We don't know.

We do know the world isn't going to just ignore America, even if the dollar falls. We offer to much(as is true with many countries.)

(You're posts are build on massive assumptions, that jump from one wild claim to another, slow down. )

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 10:39 PM

Sources please(not saying true or false, we just need sources)

Well for one thing.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/eyeonasia/archives/2009/05/it_is_just_the.html

Sorry I"m on a crappy netbook right now.

Just google about china, brazil and what their doing and especially russia. There are many MANY articles out there also Gerald Celente he's been accurately forecasting looking at current events to see where its going to. Very interesting, he's called on the dotcom burst and the housing as well.

As for housing its not over yet, it needs to deflate 50% more were going to see dirt cheap houses by next year.

Basically Gerald Celente saids that 2008 was the panic of 08 (he already predicted it couple years ago) and 2009 is the collapse of the retail and advertisement industry after the housing.

He also saids people will realize by this christmas that they wont be buying gifts but rather food.

The real unemployment right now is 17% government lies.

They've been quietly buying up many other commodities and assets slowly getting rid of their us dollars. They know they have to hedge against inflation when the us dollar collapses, their not stupid.

Even tiny tim went to china to assure the chinese their us dollars are safe but then they laughed at him. Their not stupid they know whats going on. People in the United States most of them are ignorant have no clue.

I also find it scary that last year the usd index went all the way down to the low 70's then the bailout happened and it went up as high as 87 points and now it dipped back to the 78 and then we had the treasury auctions early this week and rose back to the 80s now.

Were having trouble staying at the 80 point level. It continues to fall. When our currency was strong it was at 120.

Ugg

Jun 10, 2009, 11:00 PM

Good lord, I don't think I've ever seen such paranoid ramblings. Which right wingnut are you getting your disinformation from?

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:02 PM

Sources please(not saying true or false, we just need sources)

You're view of the world seems to be that America is just taking things in..you know we send out goods too right?

Also you're argument is that "trade will go on" if the dollar fails...of course, but to what amount and when? We don't know. What will replace it? We don't know.

We do know the world isn't going to just ignore America, even if the dollar falls. We offer to much(as is true with many countries.)

(You're posts are build on massive assumptions, that jump from one wild claim to another, slow down. )

Not really, we ship what beef to Korea and some soy beans to other countries I suppose. But most major corporation which makes up the GDP has gone outsourcing.

All the factories are built in china, walmart is closing down big retailers here as well, macy is about to go bankrupt, the already bankrupt kmart is going to go away, sears is going to go bankrupt later this year have you noticed lately when you drive around there are alot of for sale, for rent,new leasing signs? Its only going to get much worse towards the end of this year. Whos going to come in those spots? No one. GM and chrysler just went bankrupt too.

Middle class wages are now walmart.

Almost everything is imported into the United States, I have no idea what your talking about.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124458888993599879.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/business/economy/11econ.html?hp

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=akkJQ6S8Scws

http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/

http://www.youtube.com/geraldcelentechannel

http://www.maxkeiser1.blogspot.com/

http://marcfaberblog.blogspot.com/

http://www.europac.net/ check out the articles that he sites on this site daily.

http://www.peterschiff.tk/

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/06/05-0

http://www.trendsresearch.com/

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:04 PM

Good lord, I don't think I've ever seen such paranoid ramblings. Which right wingnut are you getting your disinformation from?

I'm not a republican nor democrat, I just follow the constitution thats all.

Republicans and Democrats are the same thing, obama's agenda is exactly the same as bush just way more spending. Who do you think finances those two candidates? Every position that obama chooses are the same thing as bush, Reagan, senior bush, clinton, etc.. all CFR and trilateral commissioners and bilderberg group members. The same corporations thats taken over our government of course.

It doesnt matter who wins the feds, bankers, elitists (bilderberg group) controls everything.

zap2

Jun 10, 2009, 11:19 PM

Not really, we ship what beef to Korea and some soy beans to other countries I suppose.

I suggest you look that up....you're make huge and bold suggestions on the fall of American without knowing the facts

Take a read
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

All the factories are built in china,

So there are no factories outside of China?

walmart is closing down big retailers here as well,

I'd be interested in seeing data that says Walmart is closing, en mass, all over America

macy is about to go bankrupt, the already bankrupt kmart is going to go away,

Evidence to back that up? And honestly, those are two only companies. While sad, its part of our current recession, but that doesn't mean American is collapsing

have you noticed lately when you drive around there are alot of for sale, for rent, signs?

anecdotal evidence, proving none of your claims

Its only going to get much worse towards the end of this year GM

Remember how I was talking about those big claims based off no real evidence? This is one of those

GM and chrysler just went bankrupt too. .
Yes, they did...and they are changing their business strategies to reform out of that as strong companies.

Middle class wages are now walmart.

What does that even mean? middle class wages are being payed in walmarts?

Almost everything is imported into the United States, .

Many thing are imported, thats a global economy. That doesn't mean that we don't product anything, and for sure doesn't mean the US is falling apart

I have no idea what your talking about.

Replace "your" with "I'm" and I'd full agree!

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:26 PM

I suggest you look that up....you're make huge and bold suggestions on the fall of American without knowing the facts

Take a read
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

So there are no factories outside of China?

I'd be interested in seeing data that says Walmart is closing, en mass, all over America

Evidence to back that up? And honestly, those are two only companies. While sad, its part of our current recession, but that doesn't mean American is collapsing

anecdotal evidence, proving none of your claims

Remember how I was talking about those big claims based off no real evidence? This is one of those

Yes, they did...and they are changing their business strategies to reform out of that as strong companies.

What does that even mean? middle class wages are being payed in walmarts?

Many thing are imported, thats a global economy. That doesn't mean that we don't product anything, and for sure doesn't mean the US is falling apart

Replace "your" with "I'm" and I'd full agree!

OMG thats it?? Thats all we trade??!? Thats nothing for the amount of debt we have in derivatives.

More than 500 trillion dollars in derivatives doesnt cover that.

70% of our current supposedly 14-15 trillion dollar gdp is consumption.

We consume WAYYY more than what we produce.

The problem is that all the other countries import to the United States, were the fat child in the group. When they stop exporting to the United States since we only borrow money from them as we pay them in our useless money, and they stopped taking the USD now the other countries will trade with each other excluding the United States.

Then we would have very little imports and we need to survive with domestic products.. uhh what domestic products?

Did you know in the CPI index the government doesnt include food or energy figures?

Also did you know that if we sell 1 computer next year that is 3x faster than the previous year, it will be counted as 3x sale in the gdp? Its all in peter schiff's book you should give it a read, crash proof.

The feds been bailing out our economy all this time and basically we ran a HUGE deficit. First it was the dotcom bubble, then the housing bubble (people thought they could retire on buying a home with sub prime mortgage even with fixed rate mortgages are screwed when the government finally raise the interest rates after printing trillions of dollars and monetizing that amount) and now the bond bubble. When the bond bubble burst it'll take the whole system along with it.

Were going to see hyperinflation. Wait until China, Russia, South Korea, Japan, Brazil spend all their usd and it floods back into the United States. Every civillization collapsed due to paper money because they print too much of it and were no exception.

What were too big to fail?

zap2

Jun 10, 2009, 11:30 PM

OMG thats it?? Thats all we trade??!? Thats nothing for the amount of debt we have in derivatives.

More than 500 trillion dollars in derivatives doesnt cover that.

70% of our current supposedly 14-15 trillion dollar gdp is consumption.

We consume WAYYY more than what we produce.

You clearly aren't interested in a debate where your points are addressed by others and vice cersus and we reach a better understanding. I asked you questions about you're ideas/claims you've made and until you answer those, I'm going to have to sit this thread out.

(But I'd love to see links for 500 trillion dollars in derivatives and 70% of our current supposedly 14-15 trillion dollar gdp, so I have some reading while you answer me early claims)

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:35 PM

You clearly aren't interested in a debate where your points are addressed by others and vice cersus and we reach a better understanding. I asked you questions about you're ideas/claims you've made and until you answer those, I'm going to have to sit this thread out.

(But I'd love to see links for 500 trillion dollars in derivatives and 70% of our current supposedly 14-15 trillion dollar gdp, so I have some reading while you answer me early claims)

Do you actually understand how our banking system works?

Here I think you need to watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

Basically the government borrows money from the Federal reserve with an interest. Hmm why does the government need to borrow money from the federal reserve when it can make its own money??

I know why. It was the bankers groomed man who came into office who signed in the federal reserve.

Here's what he said, I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
~ Woodrow Wilson

mactastic

Jun 10, 2009, 11:36 PM

The problem is that all the other countries import to the United States, were the fat child in the group. When they stop exporting to the United States since we only borrow money from them as we pay them in our useless money, and they stopped taking the USD now the other countries will trade with each other excluding the United States.

Here's the problem with your rosy scenario for the rest of the world as the US goes down: You seem to be under the assumption that these countries do not already trade with each other, and could simply shift their current exports that go to the US to other nations. That is simply not the case. Losing the US market would mean disaster for other exporting nations, as they already trade as much as possible with the rest of the world. They would not simply be able to shift stuff headed for the US to Europe or South America or Africa. They're already shipping as much as they can to those regions. Losing the US market would mean a drastic reduction in their export capacity, with an associated reduction in their GDP.

zap2

Jun 10, 2009, 11:37 PM

Do you actually understand how our banking system works?

Here I think you need to watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You've open my mind!

I'm still waiting you to address my points!

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:43 PM

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You've open my mind!

I'm still waiting you to address my points!

For an example this is how it works.

Say you deposit $10,000 into your bank account.

The bank takes 10% of it as reserve ($1000) and loans out the rest $9000.

Then the person who got the loan puts the $9000 in their bank and yet another 10% is held as reserve and the rest is loaned off to another person.

This has been going on for the past 30+ years (ever since 1971 when the gold standard was removed) and think about the derivatives from student loans, home mortgages, credit card debts and on and on.

This was actually revealed in a book "modern money mechanics." Basically its called the fractional reserve system.

Money is debt basically. Did you know back in the days paper money was originally used as a receipt for gold and silver that it honors certain amount of it?

Just they brain washed us to think these receipts are real money. Thats how corrupt our system is.

Here's the problem with your rosy scenario for the rest of the world as the US goes down: You seem to be under the assumption that these countries do not already trade with each other, and could simply shift their current exports that go to the US to other nations. That is simply not the case. Losing the US market would mean disaster for other exporting nations, as they already trade as much as possible with the rest of the world. They would not simply be able to shift stuff headed for the US to Europe or South America or Africa. They're already shipping as much as they can to those regions. Losing the US market would mean a drastic reduction in their export capacity, with an associated reduction in their GDP.

No, we consume the most in the world. Food, oil basically is the most we consume in, why do you think were the fattest country in the world? Were the most wasteful country in the world.

Thats the thing, other countries are high in resources its not the case with the United States. We depend on other countries for many natural resources. We dont produce anything here either. Everything has been outsourced giving jobs to others in other countries especially china.

Just look in your room right now and tell me what item is made in america?? I bet everything is made in, China, Japan, South Korea, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mexico, etc..

mactastic

Jun 10, 2009, 11:50 PM

No, we consume the most in the world.
I agree. But that doesn't answer the thrust of my question to you, which is why you seem to think the rest of the world will do fine if they lose their biggest customer?

jjahshik32

Jun 10, 2009, 11:53 PM

I agree. But that doesn't answer the thrust of my question to you, which is why you seem to think the rest of the world will do fine if they lose their biggest customer?

Lol there are only 300 million people in the United States. China has 1.3 Billion people. They can easily just serve themselves and be fine. They got all the factories there, they can domestically do well there. Just shift some of the business more to Brazil and other countries as well as they all have great natural resources. They can trade too.

I think last month I read an article that Brazil will do business with China and venezuela too for next decade in oil. And they'll trade within their currencies not the us dollar either.

http://english.sina.com/z/090409ChavezvisitsChina/index.shtml

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-05-20-voa10.cfm

Its starting to unfold right before our eyes very slowly.

China even told tiny tim that sorry were not buying bonds anymore. Why do you think we had the bonds and treasury auctions starting this monday? Were buying up our own treasuries and bonds now.

Oh and this recently as well http://www.gata.org/node/7482 Top China banker wants U.S., World Bank to sell yuan bonds

I think China is already the new super power. I wouldnt be surprised if the Yuan (Reminbi) becomes the new reserve currency.

Also surprised many countries buying up massive amounts of gold, even germany wants their gold reserves back from New York, too bad Bernanke told them no (its probably all gone, even fort knox with their 8,000 tonnes of gold is in question now as well).

We need to get H.R. 1207 (so close right now) to audit the fed, transparency act to see what they have in their balance sheets since they denied to show it 2-3 years ago. God knows how much money they punched into their computer systems.

Were the debted nation in the world. Its just insane amount of debt, the government/feds knows this, everyone else in the world knows this, but here's the kicker MOST AMERICANS DONT KNOW THIS. Their too distracted with crap on tv that doesnt reveal or talk about any of these issues and just assures the American People if we think positive our dollar will bounce back with life like from the hollywood movies!!

Oh how hollywood has distorted our views about life.

So they have only one thing to do is print money. Keep printing and create hyperinflation and default on the dollar.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dollardaze/2007/images/0626.h6.jpg

I'm trying to help as many people as I can. Not to attack anyone just to inform/warn people before its too late. Please do yourselves a favor and buy gold and silver bullion coins preferrably gold/silver american eagles. When ***** hits the fan, you'll be very glad that you have silver coins for barter and gold coins to preserve your wealth for the next decade of severe depression.

mactastic

Jun 11, 2009, 12:10 AM

Lol there are only 300 million people in the United States. China has 1.3 Billion people. They can easily just service to themselves and be fine. They got all the factories there, they can domestically do well there. Just shift some of the business more to Brazil as they have a great natural resource as well. They can trade too.

LOL... They are already trading.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 12:15 AM

LOL... They are already trading.

Yea but think about it, the United States consumes 50% of the world's oil reserves yet we only have 300 million people. Think about that! The rest of the world is splitting the other 50%?!? Thats insane, same goes with food as well.

China would hugely benefit by cutting the United States off. They are slowly making their moves. In the chinese newspapers it shows that their making big moves everyday. Their spending billions and billions of dollars each day buying up commodities, building factories, buying land in other countries to produce more crops as oil prices will go up (oil reserves are declining 7% a year thats 50% of its original reserves each year from the exponential equation).

Oil prices in the United States by next year is going to sky rocket but cheaper for china and other countries as they dont use the dollar and they will have the purchasing power with their yuan and other currencies other than the usd.

In the united States no one farms anymore everything is imported. Jim Rogers saids that the next 100 years farmers are going to do well in the United States, lol.

Even Bill Gates converted his dollars into other assets, commodities and other currencies 2-3 years ago. All wealthy people already left the United States.

Rodimus Prime

Jun 11, 2009, 12:49 AM

Here's the problem with your rosy scenario for the rest of the world as the US goes down: You seem to be under the assumption that these countries do not already trade with each other, and could simply shift their current exports that go to the US to other nations. That is simply not the case. Losing the US market would mean disaster for other exporting nations, as they already trade as much as possible with the rest of the world. They would not simply be able to shift stuff headed for the US to Europe or South America or Africa. They're already shipping as much as they can to those regions. Losing the US market would mean a drastic reduction in their export capacity, with an associated reduction in their GDP.

He does not get it.

You can not remove the number 1 economy from the world and expect everyone to adjust to it. Sorry but the biggest player effects way to much of the world and the world would go down with it.

The other catch is almost all of the world trading is done in dollars. Dollars is the world's currency and it will sit like that for a long time. That means people are holding trillions of US dollars that set their prices. if the dollar collapses those businesses will collapses as well because they effectly lost all of their savings.

Or you can go with all the multinational business out their that are based in the US or have heavy use assests. That means the same thing to them as well. They will go under taking everything in the other countries they are linked to with them.

If people think this is a depression they seen nothing yet. If something like the original post is putting up happens then the original Great depression would look like chills play. This would be followed by WWIII and this time the nukes would be involved. The US is still the most powerful army in the world by a good size margin.

Yea but think about it, the United States consumes 50% of the world's oil reserves yet we only have 300 million people. Think about that! The rest of the world is splitting the other 50%?!? Thats insane, same goes with food as well.

China would hugely benefit by cutting the United States off. They are slowly making their moves. In the chinese newspapers it shows that their making big moves everyday. Their spending billions and billions of dollars each day buying up commodities, building factories, buying land in other countries to produce more crops as oil prices will go up (oil reserves are declining 7% a year thats 50% of its original reserves each year from the exponential equation).

Oil prices in the United States by next year is going to sky rocket but cheaper for china and other countries as they dont use the dollar and they will have the purchasing power with their yuan and other currencies other than the usd.

In the united States no one farms anymore everything is imported. Jim Rogers saids that the next 100 years farmers are going to do well in the United States, lol.

Even Bill Gates converted his dollars into other assets, commodities and other currencies 2-3 years ago. All wealthy people already left the United States.

CREDIBLE SOURCES please

Btw the use exports more food than it imports.

lastly here is something I find intersting about this. What are people going to do about computers if the US completely colsapses.

Lets see the 2 major OS companies in the world are both US companies with most of their assest in the US (Apple and M$).

most of you software companies are US based....

Hell most of you computer manufactures are US based

Lets not forget about CPU makers OMG their major plants are in the US (intel and AMD)

Always an interesting thing when people in the rest of the world would get hit by sky high computer cost if with all those players leaving.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 12:57 AM

CREDIBLE SOURCES please

Btw the use exports more food than it imports.

Another thing is that when the dollar devalues so much due to us borrowing so much, most of the food in agriculture here will ship out to other countries as they have more purchasing power and food prices will sky rocket here domestically.

lastly here is something I find intersting about this. What are people going to do about computers if the US completely colsapses.

Lets see the 2 major OS companies in the world are both US companies with most of their assest in the US (Apple and M$).

most of you software companies are US based....

Hell most of you computer manufactures are US based

Lets not forget about CPU makers OMG their major plants are in the US (intel and AMD)

Always an interesting thing when people in the rest of the world would get hit by sky high computer cost if with all those players leaving.

Intel and AMD can move over seas just as easily and get cheaper labor too.

Apple has done it recently so can they.

Why would their prices go sky high? Since the devaluation of the us dollar our domestic prices would be sky high. Their prices would be just fine since asian countries all they do is produce and have huge savings and surpluses and now their currency will have way more purchasing power so they can easily order the computers.

Or the Chinese can buy from Apple since the factories are located there and it'll be much cheaper with their higher purchasing power with their yuans + if they want a pc, just order from lenovo a chinese company or many many computer companies from china.

Its all about purchasing power, our us dollar is collapsing every year. Did you know we've printed so much money that our 1 dollar bill is worth less than 2 pennies as to a 1971 dollar? This is what happens when you get off the gold standard.

China and the rest of the world are loading up on gold, while the gold market is being manipulated constantly to stay below the $1000 an ounce mark.

By the end of this year or beginning of next year, you will see gold prices at LEAST $2500 an ounce. But sadly it doesnt mean that your making money but hedging against the inflation. Wow just in 2003 1 ounce of gold was $350, it has trippled over just in 5 years. Tells you how much the dollar has devalued.

He does not get it.

You can not remove the number 1 economy from the world and expect everyone to adjust to it. Sorry but the biggest player effects way to much of the world and the world would go down with it.

The other catch is almost all of the world trading is done in dollars. Dollars is the world's currency and it will sit like that for a long time. That means people are holding trillions of US dollars that set their prices. if the dollar collapses those businesses will collapses as well because they effectly lost all of their savings.

Or you can go with all the multinational business out their that are based in the US or have heavy use assests. That means the same thing to them as well. They will go under taking everything in the other countries they are linked to with them.

If people think this is a depression they seen nothing yet. If something like the original post is putting up happens then the original Great depression would look like chills play. This would be followed by WWIII and this time the nukes would be involved. The US is still the most powerful army in the world by a good size margin.

Number 1 economy?? You mean the fake GDPs, CPI, unemployment numbers and highly manipulated stock markets?

You have to get real when a nation has so much debt as we do on top of borrowing to get this economy going your being delusional. Were printing money up the ying yang just to stay alive, the world is picking up on this and are afraid of their us bonds and treasury that their holding will devalue more. So of course their going to dump it sometime soon, well actually they are already quietly. Also once one country starts selling it off rapidly there will be a race. Thats when hyperinflation will hit us. Only thing they can do is to default on the dollar since we've flooded the world with these toxic assets.

I hope you have food, water filters, guns and ammo and precious metals because I've got lots of it ready and so should you.

Survival gears have increased 300% in business in many states and guess who's buying them? Your average engineers and university teachers. There was an interesting article about that too.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/weird/NATLSurvival-Supplies-Flying-Off-of-Shelves.html one of the articles I can scrounge up from google right now.

You know how much interest we pay to the Chinese alone for the amount of money we borrowed?!?

Update: Looks like the dollar index hit 79.8 again. Its sure struggling holding up above 80. I think by later this year around november it will hit around 71 and possibly 65 by next year. Once it gets to the 60 point territory you can bet your ass its going to collapse in increments of 5-10 points and just default. There are even predictions by top economists that dow can go as high as 20,000 points and s&p 500 at 50,000, but while everyone thinks that they struck it rich, they will realize its all in worthless dollars.

The ironic part is the last paragraph you posted is exactly what top trends forecast researchers and economists are saying. It'll dwarf the great depression. Crime rates will shoot up. Even Gerald Celente saids that new york city will become worse than mexico city, you will see kidnapping everyday.

Rodimus Prime

Jun 11, 2009, 01:29 AM

You have yet to add any creditble sources as we have ask repeately times. Right now all I read is the ranting of a mad man.

So you can go on believing your black helicopters and theories .

I find it funny how you do not see the US as the number 1 economny in the world. Find me one CREDITBLE sources saying another countries economy is bigger. And saying the EU is bigger does work because that is multiple countries.

Even if you go by the EU argument the US is number 2 and Japan is number 3 (don't know number 4)

With breaking up the EU in to countries US is number 1 Japan is number 2....

Number 1 economy?? You mean the fake GDPs, CPI, unemployment numbers and highly manipulated stock markets?

You have to get real when a nation has so much debt as we do on top of borrowing to get this economy going your being delusional. Were printing money up the ying yang just to stay alive, the world is picking up on this and are afraid of their us bonds and treasury that their holding will devalue more. So of course their going to dump it sometime soon, well actually they are already quietly. Also once one country starts selling it off rapidly there will be a race. Thats when hyperinflation will hit us. Only thing they can do is to default on the dollar since we've flooded the world with these toxic assets.

I hope you have food, water filters, guns and ammo and precious metals because I've got lots of it ready and so should you.

Survival gears have increased 300% in business in many states and guess who's buying them? Your average engineers and university teachers. There was an interesting article about that too.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/weird/NATLSurvival-Supplies-Flying-Off-of-Shelves.html one of the articles I can scrounge up from google right now.

You know how much interest we pay to the Chinese alone for the amount of money we borrowed?!?

Update: Looks like the dollar index hit 79.8 again. Its sure struggling holding up above 80. I think by later this year around november it will hit around 71 and possibly 65 by next year. Once it gets to the 60 point territory you can bet your ass its going to collapse in increments of 5-10 points and just default. There are even predictions by top economists that dow can go as high as 20,000 points and s&p 500 at 50,000, but while everyone thinks that they struck it rich, they will realize its all in worthless dollars.

The ironic part is the last paragraph you posted is exactly what top trends forecast researchers and economists are saying. It'll dwarf the great depression. Crime rates will shoot up. Even Gerald Celente saids that new york city will become worse than mexico city, you will see kidnapping everyday.

That makes me think of the the cold war. People buying all the same stuff building bunkers and everything else out of pure fear. I bet if you look back to the 80 you would seen the same spike, or during the dot com bust see a spike and so on.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 01:36 AM

You have yet to add any creditble sources as we have ask repeately times. Right now all I read is the ranting of a mad man.

So you can go on believing your black helicopters and theories .

I find it funny how you do not see the US as the number 1 economny in the world. Find me one CREDITBLE sources saying another countries economy is bigger. And saying the EU is bigger does work because that is multiple countries.

Even if you go by the EU argument the US is number 2 and Japan is number 3 (don't know number 4)

With breaking up the EU in to countries US is number 1 Japan is number 2....

How are we the best economy when our country is based off credit? We borrow to get our country going, we've been bankrupt long ago. Why do you think the feds wont show their balance sheets? Because its empty or even negative and I wouldnt be surprised if our national deficit was much higher than 15 trillion dollars.

Were consuming like crazy so it seems that were rich here but when the trillions we printed to get our economy going especially the other countries in the world stop accepting our us bonds were going to become a 3rd world country.

We dont produce anything, almost everything is imported. Sure we produce some crops here and there but soon we'll be exporting it to other countries as their purchasing power has greatly increased as to our own dollars. So domestically very high or insane food prices.

You want credible sources? Just look up how big our national deficit is and compare it to other countries. Also see how much the other countries hold onto our dollars. Everytime we print money the dollar devalues by ALOT since what little backing we really have. Especially when china and the rest of the world start using up their us dollar reserves, its going to flood back home where there will be way too much dollar and everything in price will keep going up just like zimbabwe. Your salary will be paid in weeks and maybe 3 times a day even to keep up with the rising prices.

Why do you think Timothy Geithner was in China? And hilary clinton? They want to assure them (but there are rumors that they had real talks about defaulting on the us dollars cooperating with the Chinese to do so). Only thing you can do with a huge deficit is to default on the dollar by printing more money.

You think China and the rest of the countries will continue to accept our bonds when they clearly know that we cant pay them back especially even the interest??

Their not dumb.

I wouldnt be surprised and many already predict that sometime later this year or next year, Obama will call for another stimulus package for trillions of dollars more.

The more money we print the much quicker we get into hyperinflation. Were not supposed to print money without anything to back it up with! Were printing it from thin air. Its not backed by silver or gold.

For one thing here. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124458888993599879.html Thats the last straw, when the feds finally decide to raise interest rates thats when it goes sky high especially after the amount of money we printed. When it corrects itself you can bet your ass its going to have insane prices.

Rodimus Prime

Jun 11, 2009, 01:49 AM

How are we the best economy when our country is based off credit? We borrow to get our country going, we've been bankrupt long ago. Why do you think the feds wont show their balance sheets? Because its empty or even negative and I wouldnt be surprised if our national deficit was much higher than 15 trillion dollars.

Were consuming like crazy so it seems that were rich here but when the trillions we printed to get our economy going especially the other countries in the world stop accepting our us bonds were going to become a 3rd world country.

We dont produce anything, almost everything is imported. Sure we produce some crops here and there but soon we'll be exporting it to other countries as their purchasing power has greatly increased as to our own dollars. So domestically very high or insane food prices.

You want credible sources? Just look up how big our national deficit is and compare it to other countries. Also see how much the other countries hold onto our dollars.

Why do you think Timothy Geithner was in China? And hilary clinton? They want to assure them (but there are rumors that they had real talks about defaulting on the us dollars cooperating with the Chinese to do so). Only thing you can do with a huge deficit is to default on the dollar by printing more money.

You think China and the rest of the countries will continue to accept our bonds when they clearly know that we cant pay them back especially even the interest??

Their not dumb.

I wouldnt be surprised and many already predict that sometime later this year or next year, Obama will call for another stimulus package for trillions of dollars more.

The more money we print the much quicker we get into hyperinflation. Were not supposed to print money without anything to back it up with! Were printing it from thin air. Its not backed by silver or gold.

For one thing here. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124458888993599879.html

you have failed to provide any creditble evidance saying the US is not the number 1 economny in the world.

Also it is not the size of the debt but how big it is compared to the GDP. Japan seems to be doing pretty well and its national debt is at is projected to hit 197% of the GDP. The US debt is at the end of 09 still under 100%. That should tell you something.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20090604n1.html

The number is huge but it is also the largest economy in the world.

annk

Jun 11, 2009, 02:01 AM

I would ask the posters in this thread to PLEASE not make any more consecutive posts. Use the multi-quote function, or edit your post if you want to add information.

Carry on...

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 02:12 AM

you have failed to provide any creditble evidance saying the US is not the number 1 economny in the world.

Also it is not the size of the debt but how big it is compared to the GDP. Japan seems to be doing pretty well and its national debt is at is projected to hit 197% of the GDP. The US debt is at the end of 09 still under 100%. That should tell you something.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20090604n1.html

The number is huge but it is also the largest economy in the world.

That thinking is what will cause the collapse of our economy. Its TOO BIG TO FAIL. Yea right~ :rolleyes:

Looks like 10 year treasury yield hits 4% now. VAT on the works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM0bwez1-eU take a peak. Also all the administrations are a joke, its all the same thing. Goldman Sachs, wallstreet, trilateral commission, CFRs make up all the administrations. Even mainstream media cant hold the truth back.

Check this out too. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/grant4.html

Eraserhead

Jun 11, 2009, 03:16 AM

That thinking is what will cause the collapse of our economy. Its TOO BIG TO FAIL. Yea right~ :rolleyes:

Actually it really is. Are you disputing that the US is the worlds biggest economy?

mactastic

Jun 11, 2009, 10:46 AM

Yea but think about it, the United States consumes 50% of the world's oil reserves yet we only have 300 million people. Think about that! The rest of the world is splitting the other 50%?!? Thats insane, same goes with food as well.
I'm not arguing that China isn't poised to be the next major player on the world stage; I'm saying that you can't just remove the US from the equation and have everything be fine. You think the rest of the world could suddenly double their oil use? Not likely. Same with all other goods. The infrastructure to distribute and use all the goods that currently are purchased in the US would need to be put in place prior to buyers in other nations even beginning to absorb them.

Rodimus Prime

Jun 11, 2009, 10:57 AM

I am to lazy to bother digging up the articles I read last night on the US dollar coslaping.

Most of the creditable source to even semi creditable reports read stated the same thing. The US yes will will no longer be the worlds leading economy and Yes the dollar will be replace as the world currency but it will not happen over night. It will be a VERY slow process. reason being is it is in no one best interest for the dollar to just collapse or for the US to just fail. Like or not the US is to big to fail right now.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 11:29 AM

I'm not arguing that China isn't poised to be the next major player on the world stage; I'm saying that you can't just remove the US from the equation and have everything be fine. You think the rest of the world could suddenly double their oil use? Not likely. Same with all other goods. The infrastructure to distribute and use all the goods that currently are purchased in the US would need to be put in place prior to buyers in other nations even beginning to absorb them.

I'm not saying that the United States will be completely isolated. I'm saying that 70% consumption we do from our GDP will gradually severely reduced. The problem is that the way Americans live we consume way too much and soon when consumption and imports become less and less we can expect something like 30% consumption or even less.

So in other words rationing is the future of the United States.

Unemployment rate is around 17% as of June 2009. Some economists (the optimistic ones) say that we have another year or two for unemployment to bottom out but the ones that are viewed as pessimistic ones (which I think they are not pessimistic but telling the truth since the average Americans think its all a movie where United States wins all the time in the end, and if they think positive thoughts the dollar will magically get better, thinks that were going to see hyperinflation).

Oh yea things will be sold domestically but mostly shipped out from here in the United States because we'd want to do business more with the Chinese and other countries since their money has more purchasing power and we will still have food and all the current good stuff to buy just that it will have insanely high prices.

As for the real estate, economists are saying that it hasnt bottomed out yet. Around 50% still left so far of deflating in prices on homes. Basically all the inflation was stuffed into the home equity markets and people thought rising prices of their homes was a good thing until it burst. Basically the government trickled down the inflation prices which should have gone to food and energy but just went to property. And now that bubble has burst it has gone to the bail out with the bonds now. That bubble is growing huge and a very rapid speed everyday. When the US bond bubble bursts its game over. No other bubbles to inflate.

This year will be the collapse of retail stores and retail property as they have huge loans that cant be paid off either.

I am to lazy to bother digging up the articles I read last night on the US dollar coslaping.

Most of the creditable source to even semi creditable reports read stated the same thing. The US yes will will no longer be the worlds leading economy and Yes the dollar will be replace as the world currency but it will not happen over night. It will be a VERY slow process. reason being is it is in no one best interest for the dollar to just collapse or for the US to just fail. Like or not the US is to big to fail right now.

The slow process has been the last 20 years. Were very near the cliff as we speak. The dollar index has fallen back to 79.4 points again now.

Last year before the stimulus package the dollar fell to 71 points. Basically the stimulus package boosted the dollar back up to 87 points by injecting trillions of cheap dollars into the market this year and just in 5-6 months its back to 79 as low as 77 4 weeks ago.

This is going to gain momentum very fast. I dont know which news you watch or which newspaper you read, but I read a lot of Korean newspaper and see what they think of the dollar, I watch the hong kong news and see what they think about the dollar, same as brazil news, India news and articles online. Basically all of them agree that the dollar is toxic and they dont want anymore bonds or treasuries.

I dont watch American news because they hardly ever talk about the real issues especially about the weak dollar. The american news always tells the audience what they want to hear like a fairy tale story. The dollar crisis is occasionally mentioned from some economists that gets very little time on CNN or what not but people on CNN mostly talk about useless crap all the time. Fox news, cnbc they all avoid the issues. Of course their not allowed to tell the truth, because if they do they'll get fired since the big corporations all own those tv network stations.

Also even Bob Chapman saids that he talked to many news anchors and their fearful to talk about the dollar collapsing themselves. So they leave it up to Bob to tell the truth as he's already lived his life and he's old and been telling the truth for a long time. Even the news anchors they all have gone out of the dollar and are buying precious metals.

Also I listen to great economists that had it right the last 10 years or more with everything that has happened like Gerald Celente, Peter Schiff, Marc Faber and especially Jim Rogers.

I truly believe what Jim Rogers saids is absolutely correct. He even backed it up and sold his 16 million dollar mansion in NYK city in 2007 (right before the real estate collapse, he knew already that the housing bubble would burst) and packed up his bags and left to Singapore. I truly believe its the turn of the century, the power has already shifted to Asia. Its clear as day.

I found another interesting article: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE55974820090610?rpc=28

California nears financial "meltdown" as revs tumble

Eraserhead

Jun 11, 2009, 12:29 PM

benthewraith

Jun 11, 2009, 12:34 PM

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, national unemployment is currently at 9.1%. A simple Googling produces this result.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&q=us+unemployment+rate

Do you honestly think that you have any idea what is going on in the US?

Please, do us a favor. Stop spewing lies and rhetoric.

You needs to look at that site further.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

-6 Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached
workers, plus total employed part time for
economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian
labor force plus all marginally attached workers.. 9.4 15.4 15.9 9.8 13.9 14.8 15.6 15.8 16.4

16.4% in May 2009.

mactastic

Jun 11, 2009, 12:51 PM

You needs to look at that site further.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

16.4% in May 2009.
They're arguing apples and oranges. U3 != U6.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 12:54 PM

^^ Why do you think it is so important that the US dollar is strong? Weaker currencies make it easier to export goods.

Anyway the dollar is still pretty strong against most currencies - its about level with the Euro since the start of 2008.

You got to be joking. Right now 1 Euro is 1.40700 U.S. dollars.

Look at the USD index and stop drinking the cool aid that the news is reporting. Oh were getting green shoots! All lies.

Of course the viewers will think oh I guess its not that bad while IT IS THAT BAD.

You will feel it this christmas, trust me thats when almost every american will realize and reality will set in of this depression.

Its no brainer, when you print money out of thin air you have only one way to go, default on the dollar, devaluing your dollar and eventually leading to hyperinflation.

No civilization was immune to it and the United States is NO EXCEPTION. What are we too big to fail? LOL. What a load of bull.

People are saying or rather the government is saying that the banking institutions are too big to fail, its more like way too big to bail out.

In a poll of the bailout I believe it was something around 70%-80% of the people voted no to the bailout but the feds dont care. They need to bail out their friends so that the money comes out of our pockets (mostly middle class) robbing their money into their pockets and when they suck all the money and all the elites moves their money (converted to gold) over seas they can let the United States just crumble.

Let the United States collapse and it'll take us 15-30 years to rebuild and they'll slip back in and do the same all over again.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 12:55 PM

You needs to look at that site further.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

16.4% in May 2009.

Yup, all the news reports and government numbers are all sugar coated.

You have to stop listening to the main media.

yg17

Jun 11, 2009, 01:14 PM

Yup, all the news reports and government numbers are all sugar coated.

You have to stop listening to the main media.

So, is Reynolds the best brand of aluminum foil to use for making a hat or will the generic store brand do the trick?

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 01:24 PM

So, is Reynolds the best brand of aluminum foil to use for making a hat or will the generic store brand do the trick?

This is what hollywood has done to most americans, brain washed them to think that people who speak the truth are crazy.

Keep drinking the cool aid and think that the government will save you and continue to listen to the idiot box, man its hopeless for many americans.

Dont blame anybody else when the shtf, just blame yourselves when the dollar collapse and your completely broke and starving to death.

I cant believe how blind most people are still today. Just wait until christmas time, maybe even not that far possibly around November and you will see more banks failing with a possibility of a long bank holiday, usd index around low 70's breaking 60s and your mortgage interest rates fixed or adjusted rates go sky high. Food prices will sky rocket and energy prices as well. If somehow the government stalls the inevitable collapse of the dollar, we can see VAT tax pretty soon.

Oil prices going to start looking like last year and then you will see another Obama speech that we need another bailout or stimulus. And all the Obamanoids will preach about we DO need another stimulus. And thus we dig ourselves further into the ground as other countries panic selling and dumping their us bonds and treasuries.

Just remember there was someone on macrumors that tried to warn you to get prepared. But I know you'll just sit there eating your lunch,dinner infront of the tube with news stations that are controlled by all corporations that tell you that the economy is picking up and worse is over.

And I bet you think there really is a global warming due to carbon~ How idiotic can people be? Its just an excuse so that the government can charge carbon tax on the people. The warming of the earth is natural due to the sun spots activity. Historians and scientists all confirm this.

At least it'll give me time to get prepared before everyone panics all at once.

mactastic

Jun 11, 2009, 02:02 PM

This is what hollywood has done to most americans, brain washed them to think that people who speak the truth are crazy.
As evidenced by how crazy you think we are?

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 02:09 PM

As evidenced by how crazy you think we are?

Well hollywood has done a great job to ridicule and calling people with different opinions "crazy."

Because everyone who thinks the Feds are controlling everything is crazy, I'm sure you've seen numerous tv shows/movies that teaches this.

Of course the Feds control everything, ever since it was signed in 1913, the corruption has continued and it really saw its flight when in 1971 Nixon declared there is no more gold standard.

And from there on out, they kept printing money, but back then they did not nearly print as much money as they did the last 2 years.

Look at the price of gold, gold never lies.

1971 gold was $35 an ounce from there up until the quick spike up of price of gold to $850 in 1980 (for 1 month) it went back down to $250 an ounce. Government intervention and manipulation pushed gold prices back down. Probably flooding the world with us bonds at that time.

2001 price of gold was $250 an ounce, now its $950 an ounce with a new low of $880. The scary part is that the price of gold is at a current price without any inflation correction. Its going to be at LEAST $2000 an ounce, and I wouldnt even count out $5500 an ounce 1-2 years from now.

Thats how much our dollar has devalued. Soon we just need to wait for the correcting of the trillions of dollar we monetized the past few years and you will see insanely high inflation.

And when the rest of the world starts using their us reserves it'll just flood back into the United States causing hyperinflation.

Unspeaked

Jun 11, 2009, 02:19 PM

This has officially passed the WWIII thread and any of the multitude of of crazy iPhone threads as the most mind-boggling in MacRumors history.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 02:22 PM

This has officially passed the WWIII thread and any of the multitude of of crazy iPhone threads as the most mind-boggling in MacRumors history.

Many well known reputable trends researchers say that after the collapse of the United States and the dollar, it will lead to world war III. As shown in almost every big nation in history that collapses.

.Andy

Jun 11, 2009, 02:24 PM

Many well known reputable trends researchers say that after the collapse of the United States and the dollar, it will lead to world war III. As shown in almost every big nation in history that collapses.
And the rapture.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 02:25 PM

And the rapture.

Yes, many religious people believe this as well.

I'm not very religious but if you do read the revelations and whats happened so far it accurately matches 100%.

Unspeaked

Jun 11, 2009, 02:27 PM

And the rapture.

Yes, many religious people believe this as well.

Some of these theories sound to me more like Scientology than organized religion.

jjahshik32, you don't happen to own an E-meter?

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 02:29 PM

Some of these theories sound to me more like Scientology than organized religion.

jjahshik32, you don't happen to own an E-meter?

I just read the bible and quran. Its pretty accurate with each other and very eye opening.

What is an e meter?

Sky Blue

Jun 11, 2009, 02:31 PM

These a homeless guy by the train station near me who shufflues around in a coat and slippers, holding a donut shouting "get away! It's a bomb!".

Maybe he is sane, and we're all mad.

mactastic

Jun 11, 2009, 02:42 PM

Oh wow... Backs slowly away...

I see no rational discussion is possible here. It would take days just to get the links out of this guy for the claims he's making.

Unspeaked

Jun 11, 2009, 02:44 PM

I see no rational discussion is possible here. It would take days just to get the links out of this guy for the claims he's making.

Whoever lets facts get in the way of a good theory...??

Unspeaked

Jun 11, 2009, 02:52 PM

The true irony is that Mormons are tax exempt, so for them the VAT issue is moot.

We've come full circle!

Gelfin

Jun 11, 2009, 03:04 PM

Look at the price of gold, gold never lies.

Does the gold ever tell you to burn things?

Seriously, the problem with apocalypse fantasists like yourself is that in your projections you neglect to account for the fact that, unlike you, most people would not get a perverse sense of glee from watching everything burn.

Sure, if we all suddenly stopped doing anything and decided to just ride out the train wreck, we'd all be screwed. Blood would run in the streets, money would be worth nothing, hell on earth and so forth, but that requires us to all not care the way you don't care. It requires us to all want that to happen the way you want it to happen.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't the case. In my estimation we're still in for a rough ride. Some people have not yet realized how rough, and thus still think they can get away without making hard choices. Eventually they will both realize and choose, and the dreams of fire and destruction that waken you, your sheets ever so slightly moist, will evaporate like morning fog. The Four Horsemen will shrug and go home. Things may be somewhat different in some ways, but they won't be over.

On a more personal note, obsession with fantasies of apocalypse is usually a thinly sublimated suicidal wish, particularly among religious people who view suicide as unforgivable sin but incidental suicide by way of the End of All Things is perfectly okay. Maybe consider talking to somebody about that. Seriously.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 03:18 PM

Does the gold ever tell you to burn things?

Seriously, the problem with apocalypse fantasists like yourself is that in your projections you neglect to account for the fact that, unlike you, most people would not get a perverse sense of glee from watching everything burn.

Sure, if we all suddenly stopped doing anything and decided to just ride out the train wreck, we'd all be screwed. Blood would run in the streets, money would be worth nothing, hell on earth and so forth, but that requires us to all not care the way you don't care. It requires us to all want that to happen the way you want it to happen.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't the case. In my estimation we're still in for a rough ride. Some people have not yet realized how rough, and thus still think they can get away without making hard choices. Eventually they will both realize and choose, and the dreams of fire and destruction that waken you, your sheets ever so slightly moist, will evaporate like morning fog. The Four Horsemen will shrug and go home. Things may be somewhat different in some ways, but they won't be over.

On a more personal note, obsession with fantasies of apocalypse is usually a thinly sublimated suicidal wish, particularly among religious people who view suicide as unforgivable sin but incidental suicide by way of the End of All Things is perfectly okay. Maybe consider talking to somebody about that. Seriously.

I'm not talking about these issues as the collapse being delightful. If s*it hit the fan I'd probably be first to get of here and go to asia.

I wished the dollar would strengthen but there is no way possible at this point. Were at the point of no return. Only thing the government can continue to do is print more money and we all know where that leads to.

I'm trying to warn people and get more aware of whats really going on instead of the main stream media saying that the recession is almost ending.

And this isnt even a recession, its really a depression.

Iscariot

Jun 11, 2009, 03:30 PM

Yeah man, it's really sad that people don't get this stuff. The US education system has done a really good job of indoctrinating people to consume, consume, consume, without ever thinking of the consequences. You say it started in '71 when we got off the gold standard, I say it started in '69 with the moon broadcast — which demonstrated the kind of broad-reaching power the television could have, and it's potential to keep the masses docile and complacent — or maybe even '62 with the first televised debates.

Not that it matters anyways, what with the Mayan long calendar coming to an end in 2012.

Unspeaked

Jun 11, 2009, 03:42 PM

Not that it matters anyways, what with the Mayan long calendar coming to an end in 2012.

You do realize the killer bees are going to have us overrun well before 2012, don't you?

Eraserhead

Jun 11, 2009, 03:50 PM

You got to be joking. Right now 1 Euro is 1.40700 U.S. dollars.

Take a look at the following graph for Google finance.

175347

See how it has overall stayed roughly level since the beginning of 2007 - there hasn't been a big drop in value anyway. Though does seem that there isn't much sense in this thread...

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 03:53 PM

You do realize the killer bees are going to have us overrun well before 2012, don't you?

Lol the killer bee scare? Dollar will collapse much faster than any type of bee scare.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 03:59 PM

Take a look at the following graph for Google finance.

175347

See how it has overall stayed roughly level since the beginning of 2007 - there hasn't been a big drop in value anyway. Though does seem that there isn't much sense in this thread...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3617919742_768eaf3942_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3617099455_e63eb4661d_o.png

check these out.

Early 2007 the usd index was at 120 you have no clue what your talking about or what your looking at.

Eraserhead

Jun 11, 2009, 04:12 PM

Early 2007 the usd index was at 120 you have no clue what your talking about or what your looking at.

I've just travelled round the world - if I know about anything to do with economics I know about currency exchange. The Euro has increased in value by only 6% since January 2007 - that is a fact.

I don't know what the point of discussing this is if you won't accept cold hard facts...

Gelfin

Jun 11, 2009, 04:25 PM

You do realize the killer bees are going to have us overrun well before 2012, don't you?

That was before Colony Collapse Disorder, which is, of course, caused by aliens. Aliens with bee sting allergies who are triggering the collapse of civilization so they can enslave the human race to work in their extraterrestrial antihistamine factories. An uneasy truce between man and africanized honeybee was our last hope. By 2012 you'll be making Space Benadryl 39 hours per day on Beta Reticuli II.

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 04:33 PM

I've just travelled round the world - if I know about anything to do with economics I know about currency exchange. The Euro has increased in value by only 6% since January 2007 - that is a fact.

I don't know what the point of discussing this is if you won't accept cold hard facts...

Just look at the usd index, do you even know what that is?

jjahshik32

Jun 11, 2009, 04:36 PM

That was before Colony Collapse Disorder, which is, of course, caused by aliens. Aliens with bee sting allergies who are triggering the collapse of civilization so they can enslave the human race to work in their extraterrestrial antihistamine factories. An uneasy truce between man and africanized honeybee was our last hope. By 2012 you'll be making Space Benadryl 39 hours per day on Beta Reticuli II.

I dont believe in Aliens or UFOs but I do believe that the government created these things with the help of hollywood to fully brain wash to create these type of conspiracies.

Its just to keep a lot nutty people distracted away from what the central bankers are doing. Stealing money from people. Its all distractions.

chstr

Jun 11, 2009, 04:45 PM

it won't matter after WWIII anyway

walangij

Jun 12, 2009, 12:05 AM

I wouldnt because we wouldnt be going up against the EU. We would be part of them as a one world government, the new world order.

The elites plans are to get rid of physical money all together and its easier if they make a one world government.

Those RFID chips will be implemented on everyone and it will contain your digital money, personal info and will be kept track of.

Everything you buy, your health records will be tracked and if you go against the government they can turn off your rfid chip and your cast away from society.

The Elites? RFID...one world government? Physical money altogether? Since it sounds like you pay for your things in minerals, just so you know physical money isn't used a lot in the US anyways, none of my peers have carry any cash in their wallet at any given time, everyone uses a card of some sort. For many of us our money exists in the faith of our numbers when we check our accounts online. That faith can be shaken though and lead to the doom you preach on us.

Started the thread interested in the VAT and it all just went downhill into a conspiracy apocalypse mashup. I know that hyperinflation is a threat. And that we have a lot of problems ahead of us.

And I bet you think there really is a global warming due to carbon~ How idiotic can people be? Its just an excuse so that the government can charge carbon tax on the people. The warming of the earth is natural due to the sun spots activity. Historians and scientists all confirm this.

Sure the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is very low in total percentage, as well as the increase seemingly "miniscule" in terms of the whole thing. Carbon is only one of the greenhouse gases we produce. There may be some credibility to the research that we shouldn't ignore from these climate scientists. Saying that "historians & scientists" confirm this doesn't mean anything. Scientist never fully agree on anything. But writing it off as some conspiracy to impose a carbon-tax. That is borderline idiotic.

lag1090

Jun 12, 2009, 01:25 AM

This has been going on for the past 30+ years (ever since 1971 when the gold standard was removed) and think about the derivatives from student loans, home mortgages, credit card debts and on and on. in other countries especially china.

The process of lending money to banks at interest has continued since the creation of the first central bank. Remember the Great Depression? The same process was underway during those times, too. FYI, we were still on the gold standard then.

While having a currency backed by precious metals has the advantage of prolonging the process of inflation, it does not entirely prevent it from occurring.

Tell me, what has your infallible gold standard done for the country throughout history besides stifle it?

In the united States no one farms anymore everything is imported. Jim Rogers saids that the next 100 years farmers are going to do well in the United States, lol.

Even Bill Gates converted his dollars into other assets, commodities and other currencies 2-3 years ago. All wealthy people already left the United States.

What do you think the midwest is? It's essentially one large breadbasket. The US still has many farms in other regions as well. Hell, even the southern half of NJ still has significant agricultural activity, and we're the third most-densely populated state.

We may import many exotic foods from across the globe, but that's an advantage of having such a large purchasing power. Go into your average grocery store. You will see that most produce is still of US origin.

For reference, most of Bill Gates's net worth is is stock. Converting it all to other currencies would be a bit detrimental to Microsoft. Furthermore, investment diversification is the best bet. Placing your faith completely in one currency or other investment, whether it be in the US or another country, is an inherently bad idea.

Intel and AMD can move over seas just as easily and get cheaper labor too.

Apple has done it recently so can they.

The problem is that processor fabrication plants require highly skilled labor. While Intel has facilities in Israel and elsewhere in the world, moving the entire operation out of the US would result in extreme cost, not just in raw economics but also in human talent.

Apple, on the other hand, has only relocated computer assembly to China. Assembling a computer is a much simpler task than fabricating hundreds of CPUs from a single wafer of silicon.

You needs to look at that site further.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

16.4% in May 2009.

I'm only going to say it one last time:

Get it through your head. Unemployment has a separate definition for what you're thinking of. If you cared to look at that chart, the statistic you cited is for "Alternative measures of labor underutilization," not "unemployment."

They're two completely different statistics.

They're arguing apples and oranges. U3 != U6.

Thank you for including that. I didn't mention the specific statistic tiers since most are unaware of the differences between U3 and U6. However, it does put things in more precise terms for those who do know of the differences.