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fivepoint
Jun 11, 2009, 11:29 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124458888993599879.html
Rahm Emanuel was only giving voice to widespread political wisdom when he said that a crisis should never be "wasted." Crises enable vastly accelerated political agendas and initiatives scarcely conceivable under calmer circumstances. So it goes now.

Here we stand more than a year into a grave economic crisis with a projected budget deficit of 13% of GDP. That's more than twice the size of the next largest deficit since World War II. And this projected deficit is the culmination of a year when the federal government, at taxpayers' expense, acquired enormous stakes in the banking, auto, mortgage, health-care and insurance industries.

With the crisis, the ill-conceived government reactions, and the ensuing economic downturn, the unfunded liabilities of federal programs -- such as Social Security, civil-service and military pensions, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, Medicare and Medicaid -- are over the $100 trillion mark. With U.S. GDP and federal tax receipts at about $14 trillion and $2.4 trillion respectively, such a debt all but guarantees higher interest rates, massive tax increases, and partial default on government promises.

But as bad as the fiscal picture is, panic-driven monetary policies portend to have even more dire consequences. We can expect rapidly rising prices and much, much higher interest rates over the next four or five years, and a concomitant deleterious impact on output and employment not unlike the late 1970s.

About eight months ago, starting in early September 2008, the Bernanke Fed did an abrupt about-face and radically increased the monetary base -- which is comprised of currency in circulation, member bank reserves held at the Fed, and vault cash -- by a little less than $1 trillion. The Fed controls the monetary base 100% and does so by purchasing and selling assets in the open market. By such a radical move, the Fed signaled a 180-degree shift in its focus from an anti-inflation position to an anti-deflation position.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AJ638A_laffe_NS_20090609175213.gif
The percentage increase in the monetary base is the largest increase in the past 50 years by a factor of 10 (see chart nearby). It is so far outside the realm of our prior experiential base that historical comparisons are rendered difficult if not meaningless. The currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base -- which prior to the expansion had comprised 95% of the monetary base -- has risen by a little less than 10%, while bank reserves have increased almost 20-fold. Now the currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base is a smidgen less than 50% of the monetary base. Yikes!

Bank reserves are crucially important because they are the foundation upon which banks are able to expand their liabilities and thereby increase the quantity of money.

Banks are required to hold a certain fraction of their liabilities -- demand deposits and other checkable deposits -- in reserves held at the Fed or in vault cash. Prior to the huge increase in bank reserves, banks had been constrained from expanding loans by their reserve positions. They weren't able to inject liquidity into the economy, which had been so desperately needed in response to the liquidity crisis that began in 2007 and continued into 2008. But since last September, all of that has changed. Banks now have huge amounts of excess reserves, enabling them to make lots of net new loans.

The way a bank or the banking system makes new loans is conceptually pretty simple. Banks find an entity that they believe to be credit-worthy that also wants a loan, and in exchange for the new company's IOU (i.e., loan) the bank opens up a checking account for the customer. For the bank's sake, the hope is that the interest paid by the borrower more than makes up for the cost and risk of the loan. The recently ballyhooed "stress tests" on banks are nothing more than checking how well a bank can weather differing levels of default risk.

What's important for the overall economy, however, is how fast these loans are made and how rapidly the quantity of money increases. For our purposes, money is the sum total of all currency in circulation, bank demand deposits, other checkable deposits, and travelers checks (economists call this M1). When reserve constraints on banks are removed, it does take the banks time to make new loans. But given sufficient time, they will make enough new loans until they are once again reserve constrained. The expansion of money, given an increase in the monetary base, is inevitable, and will ultimately result in higher inflation and interest rates. In shorter time frames, the expansion of money can also result in higher stock prices, a weaker currency, and increases in commodity prices such as oil and gold.

At present, banks are doing just what we would expect them to do. They are making new loans and increasing overall bank liabilities (i.e., money). The 12-month growth rate of M1 is now in the 15% range, and close to its highest level in the past half century.

With an increased trust in the overall banking system, the panic demand for money has begun to and should continue to recede. The dramatic drop in output and employment in the U.S. economy will also reduce the demand for money. Reduced demand for money combined with rapid growth in money is a surefire recipe for inflation and higher interest rates. The higher interest rates themselves will also further reduce the demand for money, thereby exacerbating inflationary pressures. It's a catch-22.

It's difficult to estimate the magnitude of the inflationary and interest-rate consequences of the Fed's actions because, frankly, we haven't ever seen anything like this in the U.S. To date what's happened is potentially far more inflationary than were the monetary policies of the 1970s, when the prime interest rate peaked at 21.5% and inflation peaked in the low double digits. Gold prices went from $35 per ounce to $850 per ounce, and the dollar collapsed on the foreign exchanges. It wasn't a pretty picture.

Now the Fed can, and I believe should, do what it must to mitigate the inevitable consequences of its unwarranted increase in the monetary base. It should contract the monetary base back to where it otherwise would have been, plus a slight increase geared toward economic expansion. Absent this major contraction in the monetary base, the Fed should increase reserve requirements on member banks to absorb the excess reserves. Given that banks are now paid interest on their reserves and short-term rates are very low, raising reserve requirements should not exact too much of a penalty on the banking system, and the long-term gains of the lessened inflation would many times over warrant whatever short-term costs there might be.

Alas, I doubt very much that the Fed will do what is necessary to guard against future inflation and higher interest rates. If the Fed were to reduce the monetary base by $1 trillion, it would need to sell a net $1 trillion in bonds. This would put the Fed in direct competition with Treasury's planned issuance of about $2 trillion worth of bonds over the coming 12 months. Failed auctions would become the norm and bond prices would tumble, reflecting a massive oversupply of government bonds.

In addition, a rapid contraction of the monetary base as I propose would cause a contraction in bank lending, or at best limited expansion. This is exactly what happened in 2000 and 2001 when the Fed contracted the monetary base the last time. The economy quickly dipped into recession. While the short-term pain of a deepened recession is quite sharp, the long-term consequences of double-digit inflation are devastating. For Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke it's a Hobson's choice. For me the issue is how to protect assets for my grandchildren.

Mr. Laffer is the chairman of Laffer Associates and co-author of "The End of Prosperity: How Higher Taxes Will Doom the Economy -- If We Let It Happen" (Threshold, 2008).

Interested in thoughts from the group.



Cursor
Jun 11, 2009, 12:53 PM
We and the dollar are screwed, and there is no turning back now. Helicopter Ben turned on his printing presses, which, in-turn will shut down our economy.

At the very least, the Fed should be able to be audited. Ron Paul's bill is up to 209 co-sponsors, but faces a lot more obstacles before it can become a law. I don't see why a non-corrupt congressman would have a problem with the Fed being audited (they control the whole country's monetary policy for godsake!), but that I fear is the problem. Most of our congressmen are corrupt and/or fear the Fed's henchmen.

Dont Hurt Me
Jun 11, 2009, 07:00 PM
The whole system is bought off, we have prostitutes running this country and nothing less only they sell votes instead of sex. Thats why China makes almost everything including Chevy's soon.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 08:45 PM
More money you print = 100% guarantee to have hyperinflation.

High interest rates first then just wait... hyperinflation is coming.

Get prepared. Sad part is that these shenanigans has been going on since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was signed in by Woodrow Wilson. Just now that they have printed so much money the past decades, they just cant hide it anymore.

People are just now slooowwly figuring out that the Fed is the problem all these years with manipulated markets and controlled inflation. Now since the deficit is so high its out of control and they cant control it any longer.

Just watch in 2-5 years people will find out that all this time we did not have to pay income tax for wages and labor (doesnt say anywhere in our law or constitutions that we have to and supreme court ruled many times that we dont have to pay income tax). There will be revolts.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 11, 2009, 09:10 PM
More money you print = 100% guarantee to have hyperinflation.

High interest rates first then just wait... hyperinflation is coming.

Get prepared. Sad part is that these shenanigans has been going on since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was signed in by Woodrow Wilson. Just now that they have printed so much money the past decades, they just cant hide it anymore.

People are just now slooowwly figuring out that the Fed is the problem all these years with manipulated markets and controlled inflation. Now since the deficit is so high its out of control and they cant control it any longer.

Just watch in 2-5 years people will find out that all this time we did not have to pay income tax for wages and labor (doesnt say anywhere in our law or constitutions that we have to and supreme court ruled many times that we dont have to pay income tax). There will be revolts.


Please read the 16th amendment to the constitution. I have nicely added it below for you.

Amendment XVI

(Ratified February 3, 1913)

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


Now that all you creditability has completely been shot can you please stop posting your mindless basely no proof what so ever things.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:14 PM
Please read the 16th amendment to the constitution. I have nicely added it below for you.




Now that all you creditability has completely been shot can you please stop posting your mindless basely no proof what so ever things.

You should watch a film by Aaron Russo called America to Fascism. He clearly goes through why we dont have to pay income tax.

Did you know that the 16th amendment wasnt ratified if you look into history?

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm

Rodimus Prime
Jun 11, 2009, 09:19 PM
You should watch a film by Aaron Russo called America to Fascism. He clearly goes through why we dont have to pay income tax.

Did you know that the 16th amendment wasnt ratified if you look into history?

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm

please provide a creditable source.

Also the fact that it has been around for over 96 years and never been challenge also says to be that the link you provided is completely bogus.

Reason I say this is in this world with everyone is ME ME ME some one would of figured it out in 96 years and their for would of sued and won the case.

So yet again your creditability is shot. Please read my previous post.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:24 PM
please provide a creditable source.

Also the fact that it has been around for over 96 years and never been challenge also says to be that the link you provided is completely bogus.

Reason I say this is in this world with everyone is ME ME ME some one would of figured it out in 96 years and their for would of sued and won the case.

So yet again your creditability is shot. Please read my previous post.

Here this will explain much better for you.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15399.htm

Watch this. I find it interesting in the IRS book it never defines the word income in the code.

Definition of income in the constitution is gains and profits made from some activity, income is not wages or labor (Supreme court defined Eisner vs. Macomber)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisner_v._Macomber its gain from corporate activity.

IRS code also saids its voluntary to file an income tax. Crazy.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/247/165/ Peck vs. lowe check it out.

Your labor is your private property its an even exchange, I do some work for someone its a trade.

dukebound85
Jun 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
whelp seems like we're ****ed

aggravates me as i have been a responsible citizen yet have to pay the price for others mistakes

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:29 PM
whelp seems like we're ****ed

aggravates me as i have been a responsible citizen yet have to pay the price for others mistakes


Reason why we pay income taxes is due to the IRS which are thugs of the feds. They send you to jail. Check out the video I just put on the links its freakin crazy.

dukebound85
Jun 11, 2009, 09:31 PM
Reason why we pay income taxes is due to the IRS which are thugs of the feds. They force you to jail. Check out the video I just put on the links its freakin crazy.

hey them having this crazy tax code will just enable them to silence dissenters once our country takes a turn to fascism lol

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:32 PM
hey them having this crazy tax code will just enable them to silence dissenters once our country takes a turn to fascism lol

Too bad were already in a Fascist state and have been. Corporate merges with government = fascism defined directly from stalin.

mactastic
Jun 11, 2009, 09:33 PM
Silly little man. You should watch a film by Aaron Russo called America to Fascism. He clearly goes through why we dont have to pay income tax.

Did you know that the 16th amendment wasnt ratified if you look into history?

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm
If you're so sure of this, I would suggest that you stop paying income tax and see what happens.

You wouldn't be the first to do so; so on the bright side, you'd have company in your jail cell.

yg17
Jun 11, 2009, 09:33 PM
Silly little man. You should watch a film by Aaron Russo called America to Fascism. He clearly goes through why we dont have to pay income tax.

Did you know that the 16th amendment wasnt ratified if you look into history?

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm

I've seen that film. It was a bunch of libertarian, conspiracy theorist garbage. If no one pays income tax, where will the government get money to pay for things we need, like roads, schools, policemen and firefighters?

Fail.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:36 PM
I've seen that film. It was a bunch of libertarian, conspiracy theorist garbage. If no one pays income tax, where will the government get money to pay for things we need, like roads, schools, policemen and firefighters?

Fail.

They pocket most of the money of course but throw a little something out into the economy. Notice why construction is never finished?

If they spend the money that they tax us from income taxes man it would be a much better looking constructed freeways and locals.

They spend that money to fund the military too for the wars that we dont need to be in of course.

Were already a fascist country, have been and probably will until the dollar collapses.

I also find it odd that 80% of the people voted against the bail out, I guess we dont matter because it failed the first time then they just ran it through again with little revisions to get it passed because they have to bail out their corrupted friends.


America couldnt fall no way, the dollar couldnt collapse no way, were too big too fail thats why. Please~~

yg17
Jun 11, 2009, 09:46 PM
Construction around here is always finished on time, but that doesn't even have to do with anything. You didn't even answer the damn question anyways. If the government stopped taxing us, and took in no money from the people, how the hell do they pay for these things? Print money? Isn't that what you people have been whining about all along? They can't just pull money out of thin air, and the policemen and firemen aren't going to work for free.

Also, I suggest you read up on the definition of fascism before calling this country fascist. Nazi Germany was fascist. Pre-WWII Italy was fascist. North Korea is fascist. The US is not fascist. If the US was a fascist country, your ass would be hauled off to a reeducation labor camp for criticizing the government in the way you have. The very fact that you continue to post these complaints, hell, the very fact you have internet access in the first place, is proof that this country is not fascist. How about you go spend a few weeks in North Korea and let us know what real fascism is if you get back.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:48 PM
Construction around here is always finished on time, but that doesn't even have to do with anything. You didn't even answer the damn question anyways. If the government stopped taxing us, and took in no money from the people, how the hell do they pay for these things? Print money? Isn't that what you people have been whining about all along? They can't just pull money out of thin air, and the policemen and firemen aren't going to work for free.

Also, I suggest you read up on the definition of fascism before calling this country fascist. Nazi Germany was fascist. Pre-WWII Italy was fascist. North Korea is fascist. The US is not fascist. If the US was a fascist country, your ass would be hauled off to a reeducation labor camp for criticizing the government in the way you have. The very fact that you continue to post these complaints, hell, the very fact you have internet access in the first place, is proof that this country is not fascist. How about you go spend a few weeks in North Korea and let us know what real fascism is if you get back.

What are you talking about? Government taxes on most things. They take property tax for one thing to fund almost everything. Each state property tax funds the area.

Fascism is when corporate merges with the government. What do we have here? Federal Reserve is a private bank its pretty much merged with the treasury and the government.

There's alcohol tax, sales tax, cigarette tax, theres virtually almost tax on everything. You clearly have not seen this movie have you? Or have done any research. But its ok continue to think the government is almighty and that their interest is saving you.

Just be ready when the dollar collapses.

dukebound85
Jun 11, 2009, 09:49 PM
Also, I suggest you read up on the definition of fascism before calling this country fascist. Nazi Germany was fascist. Pre-WWII Italy was fascist. North Korea is fascist. The US is not fascist. If the US was a fascist country, your ass would be hauled off to a reeducation labor camp for criticizing the government in the way you have. The very fact that you continue to post these complaints, hell, the very fact you have internet access in the first place, is proof that this country is not fascist. How about you go spend a few weeks in North Korea and let us know what real fascism is if you get back.

the trend has been moving that direction though thanks to the Bush regime

What are you talking about? Government taxes on most things. They take property tax for one thing to fund almost everything. Each state property tax funds the area.

Fascism is when corporate merges with the government. What do we have here? Federal Reserve is a private bank its pretty much merged with the treasury and the government.
There's alcohol tax, sales tax, cigarette tax, theres virtually almost tax on everything. You clearly have not seen this movie have you?

latest rumors are to implement an additional national sales tax to fund the govt shortcomings in the budget

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:51 PM
the trend has been moving that direction though thanks to the Bush regime



latest rumors are to implement an additional national sales tax to fund the govt shortcomings in the budget

I believe were in more of a passive aggressive fascist country. Its more high tech wise and intelligently done instead of the old school brute force.

jjahshik32
Jun 11, 2009, 09:52 PM
the trend has been moving that direction though thanks to the Bush regime



latest rumors are to implement an additional national sales tax to fund the govt shortcomings in the budget

Yea thats the VAT tax. Its going to be something like 17.5% (which is what is charged in most parts in europe).

But do you honestly think we can dig ourselves out of this hole with a VAT tax? People are already paying a lot of tax on many different things, but the more we print money this wont matter. It'll just keep squeezing the little people more and more.

yg17
Jun 11, 2009, 09:56 PM
What are you talking about? Government taxes on most things. They take property tax for one thing to fund almost everything. Each state property tax funds the area. Are you freaking blind?

Fascism is when corporate merges with the government. What do we have here? Federal Reserve is a private bank its pretty much merged with the treasury and the government. Same thing, wake the ***** up.

There's alcohol tax, sales tax, cigarette tax, theres virtually almost tax on everything. You clearly have not seen this movie have you? Or have done any research. But its ok continue to think the government is almighty and that their interest is saving you.

Just be ready when the dollar collapses.

Yeah, I saw the movie. I think I would've rather watched 2 girls 1 cup on an endless loop for a few hours instead, but I saw it a few years ago when it came out.

Even with the property tax and other taxes, it's not enough. Like it or not, we need a military. We need things like medicare and social security. We need things like the FCC to regulate who is using what frequencies. We need an FAA for the air traffic control to make sure two planes aren't on a collision course. We need an FTC to help prevent monopolies which only hurt the consumer. We need public schools because $30,000/year tuition for a private school is not an option for most. These things are not optional and no country would be able to survive without providing such things, and the funding has to some from somewhere, and property taxes or alcohol taxes would not be enough. And I don't know about you, but every time I turn on my cell phone and it works because 93 companies aren't using the same frequency, or every time my plane lands safely because ATC guided it from my starting point to my destination without crashing it into another plane, I think that's tax dollars well spent.

Also, the definition of fascism:
fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism)
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.
The US is most certainly not fascist.

mactastic
Jun 11, 2009, 10:02 PM
Notice why construction is never finished?
Link please. I work on government construction projects, and I've yet to experience one that does not get completed. So let's see what your evidence for this statement is.

Of course I realize it's futile to ask you to back up any of this, as you've not done so for any of the outlandish claims you've made, but what the heck...

rhsgolfer33
Jun 12, 2009, 04:22 AM
Here this will explain much better for you.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15399.htm

Watch this. I find it interesting in the IRS book it never defines the word income in the code.

Income doesn't need to be defined in a simple form in the tax code. The calculation of income for taxes is far too complex to be defined in a few words. But, what us in accounting commonly accept as income for tax purposes is how much money you make less any applicable deductions, that is what you would report as a "net income" figure on your taxes.


Definition of income in the constitution is gains and profits made from some activity, income is not wages or labor (Supreme court defined Eisner vs. Macomber)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisner_v._Macomber its gain from corporate activity.

I'd like a link to where income is defined in the constitution, please. A court case is not equivalent to the constitution.

IRS code also saids its voluntary to file an income tax. Crazy.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/247/165/ Peck vs. lowe check it out.

Your labor is your private property its an even exchange, I do some work for someone its a trade.

I suggest you try not filing income taxes. It may be "voluntary," but its punishable by hefty fines and/or lots of jail time.


I also find it odd that 80% of the people voted against the bail out, I guess we dont matter because it failed the first time then they just ran it through again with little revisions to get it passed because they have to bail out their corrupted friends.


People voted on the bailout? Other than senators and congressmen? The revision process is the way the two houses were designed to work, that is way the bill failed the first time and passed the second.


What are you talking about? Government taxes on most things. They take property tax for one thing to fund almost everything. Each state property tax funds the area.

Fascism is when corporate merges with the government. What do we have here? Federal Reserve is a private bank its pretty much merged with the treasury and the government.

There's alcohol tax, sales tax, cigarette tax, theres virtually almost tax on everything. You clearly have not seen this movie have you? Or have done any research. But its ok continue to think the government is almighty and that their interest is saving you.

Just be ready when the dollar collapses.

Is this for real? I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Government taxes hardly comprises what facism promotes in its economy. Facism promotes cartels, not taxes. Our government hardly promotes a cartel economy, in fact, its blatantly discouraged and illegal.

I'd love to see you use real research in any of your posts, not conspiracy theories and vague non-legal interpretations of court cases.

Cursor
Jun 12, 2009, 09:15 AM
Guys-this is supposed to be about interest rates and inflation. Lets take the thread back on track and keep your petty comments to IM, please.

Desertrat
Jun 12, 2009, 09:42 AM
'Scuse me. What does the Sixteenth Amendment with its Income Tax have to do with the Federal Reserve Bank?

The FRB and the treasury folks have inflated the money supply. That's not subject to political viewpoint; it's what's been done. History tells us that it's factual that inflation of the money supply causes high consumer price inflation. That's simple enough; the more there is of something, the less each unit is worth.

We now have a rate of CPI which is higher than the Keynesian target. It's not uniform across the marketplace, of course. It's relatively low in the food supply--although production costs are rising. It's rather high in manufacturing and maintenance costs of heavy equipment--which translates into higher construction costs in tax-paid work. And commodities have been on a roll, from an investment standpoint.

Many highly competent investment advisors and analysts are expecting a return to the very high inflation rates of the 1970s; some fear even worse. The arguments seem to be about the timng of the onset. It varies from sometime this summer for the pessimists; no later than late winter or early spring for the optimists.

The only known "cure" is for the FRB to raise its rates. Volcker did that in 1979, and brought the economy to a screeching halt for three years. Since the present economy has already halted, one wonders at the ensuing unemployment if the FRB rate were raised.

As far as complaints about the "Jekyll Island Monster", note that its policies coupled with those of the Treasury and the Congress have combined to reduce the buying power of the dollar by some 96% since 1930. I really doubt that coffee is "worth" more now than fifty and more years ago, but I haven't had a nickel cup for a helluva long time. Nor turned the key and driven away in a brand-new, special-order 3/4-ton Chevy van for $3,100 as I did in 1971.

'Rat

xUKHCx
Jun 12, 2009, 10:14 AM
Guys-this is supposed to be about interest rates and inflation. Lets take the thread back on track and keep your petty comments to IM, please.

Please keep on topic thanks