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Designer Dale
Jun 11, 2009, 04:28 PM
Hi.

There are two ways to setup bleed barks on a document. One is to check the "Add Bleed" box on InDesign when you open the original file. The other is a little old school. Create the original document with bleed measurement added into to doc size. i.e. 8.75x11.25, then use guides and draw in your own crop and bleed marks. The Pressman I know likes the second and the Prepress operator I know likes to let the computer do it (option 1). I think it is best to let the computer handle this when I start because so much of the process is automated these days.

What do you folks like to do.

Dale



snickelfritz
Jun 11, 2009, 04:42 PM
I let Indesign handle it.

Toppa G's
Jun 11, 2009, 04:48 PM
I let Indesign handle it.

I agree.

Ideally, the page size should be set up as the final document size, with bleeds extending off the edge of the page, and bleeds specified in the page setup. It's then a snap to export a PDF with bleeds setup to match the document, and is a couple steps easier if you want to show a PDF proof without bleeds.

Designer Dale
Jun 11, 2009, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the fast responses. I tend to agree from the designers standpoint. I would be interested to hear from anyone working on the output end. Prepress or pressman. We see the pasteboard as our friend.

Thanks again
Dale

Blue Velvet
Jun 11, 2009, 05:47 PM
There are two ways to setup bleed barks on a document.


Your second option seems strange from the established practice in the UK, which would be to set document size as trimmed size, with bleeds set as guides on the outside of pages. 3mm all round on singles, 0mm on the insides of spreads. Even doing this today is still second nature.

This was more or less how things were done from Quark 3.3 onwards until InDesign put a straightforward setting in on document setup. It wasn't until Quark 5 or 6 that you could put guides that rested solely on the pasteboard on master pages.

I would never ever set document size — which is usually fixed — to include bleed. Sometimes I like a little more bleed on throw-outs etc.

Incidentally, I swap jobs between Quark 8 and InDesign at the mo just to keep my hands in. I still prefer Quark's interface... and InDesign's features and their implementation.

Jaffa Cake
Jun 11, 2009, 05:54 PM
My approach is the same as BV's to me the idea of setting up a document to include the bleed seems quite bizarre.

DesignerGenes
Jun 11, 2009, 06:36 PM
In InDesign i add bleeds to the document from the print/export menu. I set the document size at the trim size and extend art beyond that of course. I have print presets for sizes that I use a lot and include the bleeds/crop marks in that. When I proof something to a client via PDF I normally dont want them to see the bleed to eliminate confusion, so I have a proofing preset as well.

I prefer not to set bleeds up in the document setup because i dont like guides around the document size (I dont know why, I just dont).
I use the same method for Quark as well.

Everyone has their own method according to their workflow.

From a plating/imposition standpoint I think it depends on the press and imposition software. Our platemaker prefers bleeds outside the document size with crop marks. She has specific templates set up for finished sizes and gang runs so consistency is important and if something would happen to have less bleed than normal then the trim size data is still the same, no matter how much bleed is available.

With the digital press we have to include bleeds in a PDF with no crop marks due to the software used to imposition the files.

Toppa G's
Jun 11, 2009, 07:04 PM
Thanks for the fast responses. I tend to agree from the designers standpoint. I would be interested to hear from anyone working on the output end. Prepress or pressman. We see the pasteboard as our friend.

My viewpoint is from a production standpoint - I'm a plant manager at a printing company. Our prepress absolutely prefers bleeds set outside the actual document size, and our prepress controls the output to the presses, so the press operators don't really have input one way or another, although it shouldn't matter to them.

Designer Dale
Jun 11, 2009, 07:38 PM
Hi, all.

The notion of setting the doc size larger than the trim size is a bit odd to me also, which is why I wanted to run it by you folks. It is confusing to me to work with odd sizes that don't match output and I would rather let the automation handle crop and bleed marks, just as long as I know what they are.

All this started with a discussion with my instructors, one of whom has embraced technology and one who really liked the days of process cameras and halftones. They are both really smart and the "old school" guy has taught me a lot about typography. I like to play the two against each other to see how a stripper who transitioned into a prepress operator (Daryl) thinks in comparison to a man who ran presses and process cameras before computerization (John).

If I really wanted trouble with the mods, I would post some of John's opinions of digital cameras in Digital Photography. I wouldn't do that, but then they must get tired of "Tell me what to buy" threads...

Dale

Blue Velvet
Jun 11, 2009, 07:52 PM
All this started with a discussion with my instructors, one of whom has embraced technology and one who really liked the days of process cameras and halftones. They are both really smart and the "old school" guy has taught me a lot about typography.


It's good to have both on hand. Old-skool skills are still necessary to some extent to fully understand what you're doing and it's nice to hear that he's taught you some things about type. In design school in the late 70s/early 80s, I endured months of type design using just ruling pen, brush and ink... and only afterwards were we allowed to move onto setting metal type by hand.

Either way, we're not going to get far without halftones. ;)

Coming back to bleed, I had to set a bleed of 3cm recently for a large format display piece.

Designer Dale
Jun 11, 2009, 11:59 PM
My program still has a darkroom and process camera. Used to have two of them and a press. The program was a working printshop with the school as the client and the student learning to work the business end to end. What I have learned from John will serve me well when I get out on my own. I have made a halftone negative and a plate. I also learned to do imposition by hand using a folding dummy. The halftone involved stripping, using rubylith and what folks over the pond call a scalpel. We call it an X-acto knife.

I am an old film photographer and loved working in the darkroom and getting my fingers dirty processing a plate. I really wish we still had that press..

Dale