International members, how do you and people in your country view US?

[acidrock]

I was wondering if international visitors of the forum could speak some about how they currently feel about the US/ americans, and maybe what the overall feeling is from people in their country. I'd be interested in knowing how you feel. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but it's almost as if America turned from a country that everyone wanted to be in, to a country that everyone hated, just a thought.

[skunk]

I was wondering if international visitors of the forum could speak some about how they currently feel about the US/ americans, and maybe what the overall feeling is from people in their country. I'd be interested in knowing how you feel. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but it's almost as if America turned from a country that everyone wanted to be in, to a country that everyone hated, just a thought.
You can screw up your own country as much as you want, but please, keep it in the privacy of your own home!

Seriously, some of my best friends are SERIOUSLY DEPRESSED Americans.

[Neserk]

I was wondering if international visitors of the forum could speak some about how they currently feel about the US/ americans, and maybe what the overall feeling is from people in their country. I'd be interested in knowing how you feel. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but it's almost as if America turned from a country that everyone wanted to be in, to a country that everyone hated, just a thought.


I think we've been hated like the popular kids in school for eons. Everyone hates us and we think they all want to be us ;)

[takao]

I was wondering if international visitors of the forum could speak some about how they currently feel about the US/ americans, and maybe what the overall feeling is from people in their country. I'd be interested in knowing how you feel. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but it's almost as if America turned from a country that everyone wanted to be in, to a country that everyone hated, just a thought.

i'm going after the attitude towards the US as whole first:

1.
before bush most people had a positive attitude towards the US
the biggest doubters were the middle aged
the younger/youth were generally supporting the US politics andadmiring theamerican way of life
and the old..well they don't care anymore (at least here...you know:our region was liberated by french troops)


2.
the election...before the election of bush most people looked at the USA as a land of honest democracy
after the election most people think about the american democracy as driven by lobbism,interest groups, 'not the one who votes is important ,it's the one who count the votes who is really important','only 50% of all people vote'

3.
11th september:
people were shocked everywhere and felt sorry for all families who lost somebody, but even on the 11/9 i heard comments like "i really hope the US doesn't take this as excuse for everything they do " (my mother)
i personally thought that the USA learns from this and makes a more carefull/objective foreign diplomacy with less use of their forces....well i was wrong and my mother was right...

4.
afghanistan:
when the war in afghanistan started the support was big, but more and more doubters came up: "they are trying to blame another country for their own faults" ...and when i heard the giant uproar of the propaganda machine in american news (like cnn) i thought by myself: "hmm i'm not so sure anymore if i should support them"
and seeing that the US government had no idea how to handle the country after winning didn't help the _slowly_ fading reputation either....

5.
iraq:
point 1: nobody bought the WMD thing here , msot people were "WMD ? yeah RIGHT..if iraq had WMD the USA wouldn't want invade them"

point 2: nobody bought the 'saddam - islamic terrorism' connection either.. people _here_ know were this terror is coming from: saudi arabia perhaps iran..
saddam isn't very religous..he is more atheist than muslim...

point 3: to bring humanitary/democracy..people weren't sure about that..me included...i (and many other ) thought:"well at least they help the iraqy people"
and about 60-70% of the people i talked to thought: "there are 2 reasons for this: revenge for his daddy and money from oil"
i didn't believe this because i thought money and personal targets aren't number 1 in USA foreign politics..
but then came the big turn-around for me: seeing how US army soldiers securing a oil well with hundreds of men and completly ignoring the protection of the iraqys (for example:a museum which 4000 year old artifacts got stolen and the US army didn't care, and complete missing protection for an iraqy nuclear plant) and the rather slim humanitary help for the poor starving iraqys.....
and now the torturing pictures..

support for the US as nation is now zero, zip, nada in the 14-29 age group and in the 30-59 age group...anti-americanism never was so strong...now the prejudicies are coming back against the people of the USA like :"they are lazy" "only care about their own life" "money is everything for them" "they are wasting oil" "they are voting a stupid cowboy for their president" "they believe all the propaganda they hear/read" "they like being ruled by a dictator" ,there are already more jokes about americans than about our german neighbours (which really shows how 'good' the reputation of the USA is here...)

but generally the attitude against americans is still good because the people here know that not everybody is supporting bush...but if they vote him again...well the prejudices are getting stronger everyday...

personal addition: the comment that everybody wanted to live in the USA is a myth...people were and are very happy that they _not have_ to live there and would never consider moving there... especially those who already visited the USA... those are the ones who gone from "i want to live in america" to "i was so wrong" in 1 month being there...people experience false ideals through american TV shows...

[PickledSquirrel]

I live in Denmark. Most af the people I know are speechless, sceptic and deeply concerned about USAs behaviour internationally. Common views are:

-USAs tendency to ignore environmental issues, despite being a (or should I say, THE) major creator of environmental problems.

-American's apparent lack of ability to understand how people can disagree with them, or simply not like the way they act abroad. A lot of them seem to truly believe that "USA is the reason that you europeans sleep safe at night"...

-Americans are generally considered extremely naive and very little-knowing of the rest of the world.

-George W Bush is generally considered more of a safetythreat than north Korea, the Middle and far east, and the local gang of thugs alltogether.

Funny thing is, that all the bias' towards the average american, does not apply to any of the americans that I know. They are all friendly, openminded, knowing people, who share the worries listed above. But then again, they may have been in europe too long to truly represent their country :D

[professor]

Pretty much the same here in Germany, old and young people alike.

[Neserk]

-USAs tendency to ignore environmental issues, despite being a (or should I say, THE) major creator of environmental problems.


true


-American's apparent lack of ability to understand how people can disagree with them, or simply not like the way they act abroad. A lot of them seem to truly believe that "USA is the reason that you europeans sleep safe at night"...


true



-Americans are generally considered extremely naive and very little-knowing of the rest of the world.


also true.


-George W Bush is generally considered more of a safetythreat than north Korea, the Middle and far east, and the local gang of thugs alltogether.


This is true but many americans would not acknowledge or believe it.

Thankfully, we aren't all like this. I couldn't guess how many are. But from what I've seen from living here and being an American I have to say that the beliefs about many Americans are pretty accurate.... it is embarassing...

[IJ Reilly]

Funny thing is, that all the bias' towards the average american, does not apply to any of the americans that I know. They are all friendly, openminded, knowing people, who share the worries listed above. But then again, they may have been in europe too long to truly represent their country :D

This may come across like a Bush-bash, but I think it needs to be said in this context. The differences you are seeing are between Americans who are interested in the world outside themselves and their country and those who are insular and nationalistic. By definition, you are meeting the former and not the latter. It's a well-known fact that George W. Bush had never visited Europe before he became president. This is an astonishing statistic when you consider that a man with so much opportunity to travel and see the world managed to become a middle-aged adult without having done so. Yet, many impoverished American college students find a way to visit foreign countries before they turn 25, a habit they tend to maintain for the rest of their lives.

The difference is a matter of interest in, or some might say curiosity about, the world around them. I hope Europeans will continue to judge Americans more by the people who come over to tour their cities and cultural sites, eat in their restaurants, and drink their beer, and meet the people, than by the current leadership and the values they represent.

[pseudobrit]

I get a kick out of the arrogance behind the whole "if you opened the borders, everyone would move to the US" idea.

It's nonsense.

More or less, a place is a place is a place. The only variables tend to be the language, the economy and the weather. People, cities and life in general are/is generally the same wherever you go.

[skunk]

I hope Europeans will continue to judge Americans more by the people who come over to tour their cities and cultural sites, eat in their restaurants, and drink their beer, and meet the people, than by the current leadership and the values they represent.
Fortunately, we do! And of course we also judge them by the enlightened denizens of these hallowed pages....

But we are also aware that there is something very nasty lurking between your shores.... :eek:

[IJ Reilly]

Fortunately, we do! And of course we also judge them by the enlightened denizens of these hallowed pages....

But we are also aware that there is something very nasty lurking between your shores.... :eek:

I love it when you talk dirty. :o

[skunk]

I love it when you talk dirty. :o
**** **** *** * **** ** *******!!! :D

[acidrock]

This is true but many americans would not acknowledge or believe it.

Thankfully, we aren't all like this. I couldn't guess how many are. But from what I've seen from living here and being an American I have to say that the beliefs about many Americans are pretty accurate.... it is embarassing...

I agree

[IIvan]

Wow- this is a really interesting thread- which is an amazing comment from a cynic like myself. Please tell more all of you foreigners!

[skunk]

Wow- this is a really interesting thread- which is an amazing comment from a cynic like myself. Please tell more all of you foreigners!
Who's the foreigner? :D

[IIvan]

Being young and untraveled- I unwittingly refer to, and possibly think of- all non-Americans as foreigners.

Living in the southern part of America- the extreme faith in our leadership and direction is really aggravating. People here just trust what they hear and don't give it much thought. Im glad maybe its different somewhere

[winwintoo]

Well as a foreigner who lives not that far away, I long for the days when your president's biggest failing had something to do with a cigar, or was that being compared to a cigar or ......

At least Clinton only screwed one American at a time.

m

[Neserk]

At least Clinton only screwed one American at a time.


And to quote a bumper sticker: When Clinton lied, nobody died!

[wowser]

I'm English and spent a year in California:

They are wonderful, friendly, warm and welcoming people and less shallow than the English (I am generalizing, but you have to make some generalizations). The Bush admin, companies with dubious moral ethics, et al, however - that's what's rotten.

[skunk]

I'm English and spent a year in California:

They are wonderful, friendly, warm and welcoming people and less shallow than the English
Hey! :p Don't overdo it!

[Neserk]

Hey! :p Don't overdo it!

He isn't. We Americans who live in Southern CAlifornia are especially wonderful :D It is all the sunshine!

[professor]

Picture a big shiny car with a good engine (well - a bit of a gas guzzler, but it runs well and does its job). The metal polished, adored by the neighbors, everybody wants a ride. A succession of drivers took good care of it, except an occasional owner who wasn't a good driver. But its frame was good and the metal strong, and the subsequent owners quickly restored it to its former beauty. Over time, it became a legend.
Then the car was bought by a new owner. Now, one could see it speeding around the neighborhood, running the red lights everywhere. Worse. The driver bumped it into pretty much every car in the neighborhood, until not only many of the cars around got dents and scratches, but also the car itself was hard to recognize anymore. You could hardly see the lttle guy behind the wheel who looked as if he had hardly passed the test, if at all. But in the back seat, almost invisible because of the new dark window panes they had installed sat a bunch of thugs telling him where to go and how fast and how to wreck all the other vehicles around.
Eventually, the engine stalled, the tires blew, the neighbors frowned (frowning was all they would do, because they were so scared of the guns the thugs kept sticking out of the windows). Then the car got stuck in the wreckage it had caused. The neighborhood looked like a war zone, lots of car wrecks left and right. The driver and his thugs took flight.
The neighbors now wonder how soon a new driver will come, and whether he or she will have the power and resources to restore the car to its old beauty. It sure is possible, and it still has a strong frame and a reliable engine (which is in dire need of being upgraded to an environmentally more sane version), but it requires a lot of effort to restore the car, and a lot of careful driving to regain the trust of the neighbors.

[resm]

[QUOTE=acidrock]I was wondering if international visitors of the forum could speak some about how they currently feel about the US/ americans, and maybe what the overall feeling is from people in their country.[QUOTE]

As a Swiss national and living in south-east asia for the last 24 years (10 years Philippines, 10 years Singapore and 4 years in Malaysia) I have often been amazed about the naivity, if not to say the stupidity of voters in asian countries like the Philippines, Indonesia etc.

Political leaders in this countries have been elected who had/have no moral integrity nor did they have the capability to lead anything, most surely not a whole country.

The same problems I saw when I arrived in this region 24 years ago, still exist to almost the same degree today.

When Bush was elected president, I was wondering if the same mentality now starts to exist in the USA.
Considering that even today a large percentage would still vote for him, I can only compaire this with some of the Philippine voters who wanted to vote for Imelda Marcos to be president after her husband was finaly thrown out.

I think the United States of America has reached a very serious stage that in the final end could lead to self-destruction, unless the American people start some serious thinking and self-critique.

Moral integrity is the most important attribute of leadership and no one that can not live up to that should get the responsibility to make decisions for other people.

[billyboy]

The troubling public perception of America as a whole, and consequently the press about American people is down to the actions and attitudes of its leaderships. Obviously in a democracy, the people should have the final say in how a country is run, and clearly having decided not to go the polls in sufficient numbers, the American people are living the truism that you get the service you deserve. But to extrapolate George Bush to Joe Public is way off base, even though it is understandable human nature.

Just as a caveat, my dearest friend in the whole world is American and amongst other things, I love her for her ballsy, larger than life attitude.:D So in that respect she is all American. But also she is different in that she really does embrace "foreign" ideas, and is really interested in how people live and how people think in other parts of the world. And having seen how it is elsewhere in the world, she tends not to take her privileged lifestyle for granted either. Anybody who thinks Americans are lazy arent really accounting for the fact that the fabulous wealth of the average American (better off than most people in the world) has been earned by the hard graft of ordinary individuals. And any nation that gives its workers 2 weeks holiday a year and expects blood during work time, again, can't really be adjudged a nation of sloths.



There have been some very insightful perceptions so far, especially the Professor's car analogy and the guy from Austria. I did not recognise the idea though that Americans in California are less shallow than British people. Maybe if you move in intellectual well travelled circles - but that "less shallow" idea doesnt stack up in my experience of the average citizen living the American dream in the golden state of sun, sand, skiing, sex, drugs and rock n roll, potato chips, weak beer and custom cars.

Also, with a few notable exceptions, I would say the best way to see the good side of Americans as a whole ( hospitable beyond belief, fun and full of energy) is when they are in their own country, where they blend in, I guess. Has nobody ever noticed how loud Americans are compared to North Europeans? But in the States, that larger than life characteristic is perfectly suited to the scale of the country. So I can easily understand how an American presence storming its gauche way into Iraq would go down like a stack of poo. And it must be hard negoatiating with America for whom, with so many resources at their disposal, anything is possible to achieve. And as a young country, the US does not have the sense of history when it negotiates for change, and seems sadly lacking in empathy for very deeply held non Christian religious rules that cant just be put to one side to get a job done.

[Ozi]

Many fellow Australians are very annoyed that you went to war with Iraq, when they were co-operating with weapon checks. Weapon checks which would never have found anything anyway! :rolleyes:

personally, i see America as being incredibly stupid when it comes to foreign policy. You set up the Taliban, you organise drug lords to assisinate your political enemies, and the CIA has dabbled in almost every foreign conflict to date. You refuse to take a strong stance on the environment (no fuel regulation tightening for SUVs, NOT signing the Kyoto Protcol, and you continue to execute people under the age of 18, which makes you one of only 5 countries to do so. Iraq, Saudi-Arabia, North Korea, Iran and Nigeria. What a great group to belong to. (watch the West Wing to learn more! :D)

You meddle in conflicts, then act suprised when your Blackhawk helicopters are shot down with weapons you sold to terrorists 10 years ago.

This incredible short-sightedness leads to you looking like idiots and fools.

~ozi

[takao]

NOT signing the Kyoto Protcol,

as far as i remember : didn't they sign it(under clinton) and stepped back from it later (bush) ?

[wowser]

There have been some very insightful perceptions so far, especially the Professor's car analogy and the guy from Austria. I did not recognise the idea though that Americans in California are less shallow than British people. Maybe if you move in intellectual well travelled circles - but that "less shallow" idea doesnt stack up in my experience of the average citizen living the American dream in the golden state of sun, sand, skiing, sex, drugs and rock n roll, potato chips, weak beer and custom cars.



HA! Yeah, maybe i was moving in intellectual circles! Well, it's definitely nice and relaxed there. People actually smile and don't walk round like corpses (Northern England can be quite grim).

[Ozi]

as far as i remember : didn't they sign it(under clinton) and stepped back from it later (bush) ?

in Clintons last fortnight before being voted out, he made bills which would not be voted on until after he ceased as president. Ie reduction in fuel emmisions, reduction of lead content in water, signing Kyoto Protocol, etc

He did this knowing they would likely never be passed under a new republican government, but he formed these bills anyway to make himself look good.

In reality he was no better on the environment than Bus jnr is now. :(

[Abstract]

There are quite a few American students that I live with in residence who have come to Oz for a semester, and let me tell you that many of them carry this weird American attitude. Everytime something doesn't seem right (to them), they'll go on about how its done in America, as if they were still there.

Example 1: "Customer service sucks in this country. If this were America, those sales people would never have been hired. They should go over to America and see what "real" service is like." Its hard to explain what I mean through text, but it just seems like they go from place to place and ask for everyone to conform to their lifestyle. Hmmm....maybe I need another example.

Example 2: Many of the American students act as if they can break some of the rules and laws around here simply because "they're young" and from another place (namely, America). They go around, shout in the middle of the night, and really don't give a crap about anything they do, and then they leave. Why should they follow some of the more basic rules and be considerate? Pineapples in their sandwiches? Some of these (Aussie) habits are stupid anyway.

Example 3: Now, I should clarify that I'm not Aussie. I'm Canadian (yay!! :D ). Anyway, I've never lived by the ocean or learned to surf, so I don't understand much about riptides and stuff. Fair enough, I say. Anyway, this girl from California is telling me how stupid and ignorant some people are for swimming away from the shore on purpose just to swim back (because they may get swept away from some riptide or something...). "People are just so dumb. How can you not know that?"

I said, "Well, I wouldn't think anything of it if I were at the beach and someone said they wanted to swim out."

Her: "Well, how can you not know anything about the ocean? Doesn't everybody know that you may get swept away!"

Me: "Well, no, apparently not. :rolleyes: I'm from Toronto, remember? (I was already getting P.O.'ed by her surpreme idiocy) I've never lived by the ocean, and don't know how to surf, so how would I know? I don't think its me being stupid. Its just that I never had to learn these things growing up where I did. We didn't all grow up in Cali."

(silence...)

Her: "Well, I never thought about it that way. I guess not everybody grew up in California. (no ****, Sherlock) I just can't.....can't believe you didn't know something like that!"

Now, she's a smart, nice, and a sociable girl who HAS travelled a lot. She also thinks I'm smart, which is why she was so surprised that I didn't know something "so basic." Problem is this: Why do people travel if they're not going to learn and experience cultures and backgrounds different from your own?

[Neserk]

Now, she's a smart, nice, and a sociable girl who HAS travelled a lot. She also thinks I'm smart, which is why she was so surprised that I didn't know something "so basic." Problem is this: Why do people travel if they're not going to learn and experience cultures and backgrounds different from your own?

In her defense, intelligence comes in many different forms. She may simply lack common sense.

[wowser]

Abstract, whilst that's true to some extent, I think most countries are quite inward looking. Exchange students are just expressing that they sometimes miss home, living in an unfamiliar place. Whilst I was studying abroad, I was quite similar, like "You really HAVE to be 21 to drink? - that's stupid! In England you can drink from when you leave school!" etc

[PickledSquirrel]

He isn't. We Americans who live in Southern CAlifornia are especially wonderful :D It is all the sunshine!

Staying in front of the screen all day can't get you muct out in the sun, though ;)

[PickledSquirrel]

I used to work in a museum dealing with prehistory. One day I did a tour with a group of americans, showing them some iron-age stuff and ending up outside by some reconstructions of viking age houses. (the viking age in denmark is some 700-990 years AD) I explained about the houses, the prehistoric period in which they belong, and the excavations they were based upon. The whole tour took about an hour or so.
After the tour was over, a woman came over to ask me a question. She wanted to know where they could find a viking reservation :eek:, as they really wanted to see real, living vikings. I simply could not convince her that the vikings are our ancestors, and not some form of native danes whom we keep in cages after we "colonized" the country.

Fascinating experience.

[skunk]

After the tour was over, a woman came over to ask me a question. She wanted to know where they could find a viking reservation :eek:, as they really wanted to see real, living vikings.Fascinating experience.
You should have introduced her to the neighbours! ;)

[IJ Reilly]

There are quite a few American students that I live with in residence who have come to Oz for a semester, and let me tell you that many of them carry this weird American attitude. Everytime something doesn't seem right (to them), they'll go on about how its done in America, as if they were still there.

The "ugly American" cliche. Sure, these people exist, but it's worth noting that every nation harbors its share of chauvinists, who when they travel abroad, like to gripe about how this or that thing is better at home. Why these people bother with travel at all is beyond me. They're rarely happy away from home, so they really should stay there. Also, I've found as an American traveling abroad that many people outside of the US have an attitude about Americans. We're assumed to be crude, loud and uncultured. That's not very nice, either.

[skunk]

Also, I've found as an American traveling abroad that many people outside of the US have an attitude about Americans. We're assumed to be crude, loud and uncultured.
Considering that such a large proportion of those people probably spend a lot of their time watching the Simpsons, Friends, Six Feet Under and any number of US-made movies, it is a bit rich to deny the cultural exports we all consume so readily.

[IJ Reilly]

Considering that such a large proportion of those people probably spend a lot of their time watching the Simpsons, Friends, Six Feet Under and any number of US-made movies, it is a bit rich to deny the cultural exports we all consume so readily.

I'm not sure I entirely follow your point here, but I did bring up The Simpsons in this context a while back. I wondered whether the show's popularity in Britain was at least in part a function of how the British viewed Americans.

[skunk]

I'm not sure I entirely follow your point here, but I did bring up The Simpsons in this context a while back. I wondered whether the show's popularity in Britain was at least in part a function of how the British viewed Americans.
It's more a function of how we view ourselves. Obviously we're not that different after all. Which was my point. :rolleyes: :)

[Abstract]

Well, I can basically tell the (few) Canadians apart from the Americans just by talking to them, and I don't even have to ask them where they're from. ;)

This isn't to say I don't like Americans. The girl I'm talking about, along with a few of the American guys here, are my best friends in Oz. I've only been here for 3 months, and have 2 close Aussie friends here, so its not all bad, but the proportion of Americans who fit the arrogant and close-minded American stereotype is amazing. I'm just glad that many of them are leaving in 1 month, as are many of the Aussies here.

And I haven't even touched on American politics. I don't really like any of it, and dislike almost all American policy. Of course, this is a dislike of America I have, not Americans, which is why I don't care if my friends are American or not. I think all my American friends are cool. Fun, loud, and they like to have a good time. :)