MacAir RevC or New MacPro 13"

[CPPMaster]

Hi all,

I have the MacBookAir revA and I am considering an upgrade. Now I am between the RevC or the new MacBookPro 13", any toughts on that?

Regards,

[Tallest Skil]

Thirteen inch Mac Pro?! Sounds like a mini-tower!

The "Book" is there for a reason. ;)

You'll see quite a change in the way video graphics are handled with the new GPU, but the rest is up to you.

[CPPMaster]

:) That happens when you are overseas and using the iPhone to edit.

Thanks.

Thirteen inch Mac Pro?! Sounds like a mini-tower!

The "Book" is there for a reason. ;)

You'll see quite a change in the way video graphics are handled with the new GPU, but the rest is up to you.

[xpovos]

I have the MacBookAir revA and I am considering an upgrade. Now I am between the RevC or the new MacBookPro 13", any toughts on that?

The Air is a wonderful machine, but if you go with a RevC (or a RevB for that matter), you have to be prepared for the strong possibility that your new screen will have lines and will look like crap next to your RevA display. The new 13" MBP, on the other hand, has an excellent display but you have to decide whether or not the glassy screen is going to bother you. It is highly reflective, much more so than your current Air's display. If you can get past that, which I managed to do and now like (not love) the glassy displays, it's great. The MBP also has the virtue of expandability (RAM, hard drive), making it a bit more future-proof, and that's a plus. You do lose the lovely form factor of the Air and the MBP seems heavy and chunky after you've gotten used to an Air, but the 13" is still a highly portable machine with more pros than cons vis-a-vis the Air.

You asked for our thoughts; those are mine. As much as I love the MBA, the issue with the screens is a deal-breaker for me. I personally recommend the 13" MacBook Pro.

[Scottsdale]

The 9400m in the new MBA is incredible. Supposedly it's faster than was in last MBA with 9400m. I have the new MBA 2.13 with SSD, and I love it. Finally, realize that the 9400m will only get better with Snow Leopard in a few months. And the original MBA with Intel 3100 will not support OpenCL in Snow Leopard.

Finally, if you find that you have enough RAM in your MBA (plus the new MBA has 65% faster RAM), and you are ok with the battery, get the new MBA. If you need more memory, a longer life battery, or a built in optical drive, consider the 13" MBP.

The display on the 13" MBP is really nice if you like glassy/glossy, and looks great for videos.

I cannot move away from the MBA. I used a unibody MB for a month while waiting for the new MBA (as my rev B MBA was stolen), and I refuse to ever go back to that BRICK. It feels so much heavier than the MBA. The MBA is just plain fun! Snow Leopard should be a great upgrade for the MBA while still taking advantage of the same processing units just like a MBP. Snow Leopard is half the size of Leopard, runs super fast, and is included with a Mac you buy now (for the $9.99 shipping and handling).

Good luck with whichever you buy.

[Veinticinco]

There's at least two threads on exactly this question already...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=714312

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=713441

...couldn't you just have contributed to one of those, or did you really need to start another?

[CPPMaster]

This is what happens when you are travelling overseas, and can not wait until be back to US.

Grazie.

There's at least two threads on exactly this question already...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=714312

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=713441

...couldn't you just have contributed to one of those, or did you really need to start another?

[Veinticinco]

This is what happens when you are travelling overseas, and can not wait until be back to US.

Grazie.
Prego. And god speed back to your country. I'm sure your xenophobia is so much more easier to deal with when you're not surrounded by 'foreigners' :rolleyes:

My point was, and remains valid. Apologies if it came across as rude or especially intolerant, that was not really my intention. It's natural that there are peaks of activity (and new members) after an event like WWDC, but it is for everyone's benefit that this place is kept as tidy and non-repetitive as possible. Capito?

[Giancarlo]

...you have to be prepared for the strong possibility that your new screen will have lines and will look like crap next to your RevA display.

It does not look like crap at all.... People, you are blowing this issue way out of proportions...

Yes I agree that there are lines, faint grey horizontal lines, but hey... Overall the screen is gorgeous and those lines if and when visible, do not affect the screen quality at all...

[CPPMaster]

"and can not wait until be back to US", I meant of course to be back to buy the new machine, as I am based there.

1/2 Italian here and my wife is 100% Italian :D

Thanks, for the feedback.


Prego. And god speed back to your country. I'm sure your xenophobia is so much more easier to deal with when you're not surrounded by 'foreigners' :rolleyes:

My point was, and remains valid. Apologies if it came across as rude or especially intolerant, that was not really my intention. It's natural that there are peaks of activity (and new members) after an event like WWDC, but it is for everyone's benefit that this place is kept as tidy and non-repetitive as possible. Capito?

[Veinticinco]

"and can not wait until be back to US", I meant of course to be back to buy the new machine, as I am based there.

1/2 Italian here and my wife is 100% Italian :D

Thanks, for the feedback.
Ah ok, I read that completely wrong then - mi dispiace ;)

[Carl Abudephane]

This is just a heads-up for any of you thinking of a 13" MacBook Pro instead of an Air. Whilst the Air is still a no-go for me due to the RAM limit, so too is the 13" now.

I bought a 13" Pro two days ago and was in the process of trying to get used to the screen, primarily because of the glass and the associated reflections whenever black is on the screen. I work with abstract photography, and there is almost always black in my work, so it's been difficult trying to get my head 'round this screen. Mitigated slightly by the fact that it's simply a gorgeous quality screen; and today I actually felt at one point(upon seeing one of my photographs as the desktop)that I would possibly even get to like it, as soon as my brain adjusted and began to naturally 'zone out' the reflections.

All irrelevant now however because, to get to the point: it's just been discovered that the SATA connection speed on the 13" MacBook Pro's has been cut back, unbelievably, to 1.5 gb. There is another thread in the notebooks/MacBook Pro forum developing rapidly as I type discussing this, but, in a nutshell, if you want to have(now or later)an SSD put in there, forget it as there's little point.

I'm taking mine back for a refund tomorrow(within 14 day return period).

What on earth is happening at Apple.

[Scottsdale]

This is just a heads-up for any of you thinking of a 13" MacBook Pro instead of an Air. Whilst the Air is still a no-go for me due to the RAM limit, so too is the 13" now.

I bought a 13" Pro two days ago and was in the process of trying to get used to the screen, primarily because of the glass and the associated reflections whenever black is on the screen. I work with abstract photography, and there is almost always black in my work, so it's been difficult trying to get my head 'round this screen. Mitigated slightly by the fact that it's simply a gorgeous quality screen; and today I actually felt at one point(upon seeing one of my photographs as the desktop)that I would possibly even get to like it, as soon as my brain adjusted and began to naturally 'zone out' the reflections.

All irrelevant now however because, to get to the point: it's just been discovered that the SATA connection speed on the 13" MacBook Pro's has been cut back, unbelievably, to 1.5 gb. There is another thread in the notebooks/MacBook Pro forum developing rapidly as I type discussing this, but, in a nutshell, if you want to have(now or later)an SSD put in there, forget it as there's little point.

I'm taking mine back for a refund tomorrow(within 14 day return period).

What on earth is happening at Apple.

I noticed that when I looked at the MBP in the store on Wednesday and thought it was odd! However, I thought the 13" MBP display looked gorgeous. NONE of them looked washed out or lighter than the 15" MBP in my opinion. Are you sure you didn't just get a bad display?

[xpovos]

It does not look like crap at all.... People, you are blowing this issue way out of proportions...

Yes I agree that there are lines, faint grey horizontal lines, but hey... Overall the screen is gorgeous and those lines if and when visible, do not affect the screen quality at all...

Obviously a matter of opinion, but I stand by my original statement. The screen on my rev B looked horrible. The lines were faint, but the backlighting was very uneven and I couldn't get the colors right even after multiple calibrations. In a direct comparison with my unibody MacBook (one of the ones with a poor-quality screen, before the silent upgrade), 8 out of 8 people (myself included) felt that the MacBook screen was better than the MBA screen.

[Carl Abudephane]

I noticed that when I looked at the MBP in the store on Wednesday and thought it was odd! However, I thought the 13" MBP display looked gorgeous. NONE of them looked washed out or lighter than the 15" MBP in my opinion. Are you sure you didn't just get a bad display?

Hey Scottsdale! How you doing? Glad to hear(read!)that you're happy with your new Air.

Anyway, don't know if you didn't get the gist of what my post is about. I love the quality of the screen of this 13" Pro(just reflections a bit difficult), but it's the SATA connection speed that has suddenly come out of the blue, and is upsetting people in a big way. It should be 3gb. But it isn't. It's 1.5, and consequently, should one wish to put an SSD in there, well, there's little to no point.
Apple are, put simply, shafting people all over again, at least those who know more than the average Joe, whoever that is.

I'm close to giving up on 'em, and my problem now is what bloody Mac is there for me, as I'd already come to the conclusion that I couldn't stretch to a 17" and that the 15" just isn't worth it to me.

[Scottsdale]

Hey Scottsdale! How you doing? Glad to hear(read!)that you're happy with your new Air.

Anyway, don't know if you didn't get the gist of what my post is about. I love the quality of the screen of this 13" Pro(just reflections a bit difficult), but it's the SATA connection speed that has suddenly come out of the blue, and is upsetting people in a big way. It should be 3gb. But it isn't. It's 1.5, and consequently, should one wish to put an SSD in there, well, there's little to no point.
Apple are, put simply, shafting people all over again, at least those who know more than the average Joe, whoever that is.

I'm close to giving up on 'em, and my problem now is what bloody Mac is there for me, as I'd already come to the conclusion that I couldn't stretch to a 17" and that the 15" just isn't worth it to me.

I realized that you were talking about SATA vs SATA-II 1.5 GB vs 3 GB... and I saw that it said 1.5 G when I checked the system info about the MBP I was looking at. I noticed it said 1.5, then I checked the 15" and it said 3. The thing is, without an SSD, it will not need the extra speed transfer. An SSD would be limited by it. Apple is catering to consumers now but calling the MacBook a MacBook Pro for marketing purposes.

How about removing the Express Card from the 15" MBP... that has to be a shock to Pros. That is useful for so many different expandability options. However, I get that less than 10% were using it, because less than 10% are true PROS. Apple is doing the right thing by moving to the consumer markets and worrying less about Pros. There is more money selling 40m Macs than 15m Macs annually... and they cannot do it at those "Pro" prices. Apple did the right thing to GROW the Mac. It had to cut costs to make all of these things happen at these prices... although I would think SATA-II vs SATA pricing is minimal difference??? How much could that controller cost, $5?

[Scottsdale]

The funny thing about the 3 Gb vs 1.5Gb is the MBA is essentially faster with SSD than the new PRO 13"!!!

[Carl Abudephane]

It had to cut costs to make all of these things happen at these prices... although I would think SATA-II vs SATA pricing is minimal difference??? How much could that controller cost, $5?

Apologies, my mistake thinking you'd not got what I was talking about.
Yeah, you're right, the difference in cost would be virtually inconsequential.

I cannot tel you how much I wish the Air could have more than 2Gb RAM!
Presuming I got a display without lines that is. Anyway, a moot point, as it can't.

[Veinticinco]

although I would think SATA-II vs SATA pricing is minimal difference??? How much could that controller cost, $5?
Exactly. And how much more would soldering a 4GB chip onto the MBA board instead of the 2GB? $50? Clearly some decisions being taken here to cut corners just to keep the beancounters happy, whilst pissing off a small but loyal core segment of users.

Same with the MBA display issues (BTW thanks for your Amazon explanation in the other thread - surprised the 8F is still in such recent units), just goes to show Apple are losing the plot a little, whilst no doubt cleaning up in the short term.

Carl - thanks for sharing the SATA issue - since I've shelved a rev.C MBA due to display, I was very much focussed on the great all-round capabilities and value of the 13" MBP, but since I will never go back to HDD again, this problem is irredeemable. I am now left without an new laptop option that will make me happy.

Going to bunker down for the long haul and await the 2010 13" MBP - which hopefully will be just today's version except in a MBA form factor with a breathtaking, maybe even OLED, display, and yes with a 3GB+ speed SATA-II 256GB SSD.

[Capt Crunch]

I cannot tel you how much I wish the Air could have more than 2Gb RAM!
Presuming I got a display without lines that is. Anyway, a moot point, as it can't.

As my eyes are not good enough to detect the lines, if the MBA had 4 GB of RAM I would have gotten it instead of the MBP Jr.

[kinkster]

The funny thing about the 3 Gb vs 1.5Gb is the MBA is essentially faster with SSD than the new PRO 13"!!!


there was one guy that claimed if you get one shipped with an ssd they give you the 3.0gbps controller, but he didn't confirm it at all so we'll have to see.

[Carl Abudephane]

Carl - thanks for sharing the SATA issue - since I've shelved a rev.C MBA due to display, I was very much focussed on the great all-round capabilities and value of the 13" MBP, but since I will never go back to HDD again, this problem is irredeemable. I am now left without an new laptop option that will make me happy.


Hello Veinticinco! Think you and I exchanged some thoughts a while ago re: the upcoming Rev C Air! How you doing? Well(as regards Macs!)I think I know actually as I've been following all the Air threads and reading your comments.
Although I am very happy for those who have gone for the new Air and are happy with it, I have to say that I am 100% in agreement with you as regards it's 'update'.
Anyway, it's all been said. I now find myself in the same boat as you. The Air is not an option for me. The 13" looked like a fabulous alternative as long as the weight increase wasn't too dramatic and the black-bezelled, reflective screen could be tolerated. Well, the weight, although quite a shock after the Air, is just a fact. It has to be accepted. The screen? I had a day of quite simply being horrified by the reflections on black area's, but then gradually started to get used to it and yeah, began to appreciate it's incredible quality.

And now this. I quite simply cannot begin to fathom why Apple can even begin to contemplate such a move. Staggeringly unacceptable. This will grow & grow and a whole lot of people are gonna cause mayhem over it. I had planned on installing a high-end SSD around Autumn(Fall!)time!
Bottom line: it goes back tomorrow for a full refund. My only other option, the 17", I cannot stretch to, so count that as one lost sale for them.

Not that they give a damn. You and I both know that all too well.
So, what to do. Stuck really.
In the meantime, be well, and maybe chat again soon!

[steve31]

This is just a heads-up for any of you thinking of a 13" MacBook Pro instead of an Air. Whilst the Air is still a no-go for me due to the RAM limit, so too is the 13" now.

I bought a 13" Pro two days ago and was in the process of trying to get used to the screen, primarily because of the glass and the associated reflections whenever black is on the screen. I work with abstract photography, and there is almost always black in my work, so it's been difficult trying to get my head 'round this screen. Mitigated slightly by the fact that it's simply a gorgeous quality screen; and today I actually felt at one point(upon seeing one of my photographs as the desktop)that I would possibly even get to like it, as soon as my brain adjusted and began to naturally 'zone out' the reflections.

All irrelevant now however because, to get to the point: it's just been discovered that the SATA connection speed on the 13" MacBook Pro's has been cut back, unbelievably, to 1.5 gb. There is another thread in the notebooks/MacBook Pro forum developing rapidly as I type discussing this, but, in a nutshell, if you want to have(now or later)an SSD put in there, forget it as there's little point.

I'm taking mine back for a refund tomorrow(within 14 day return period).

What on earth is happening at Apple.Thanxs for the "heads up" 1.5 gb!!!!:eek: Why? The last Uni MB was 3.0 gb! I had one with a Intel SSD and it was crazy fast. I went to the Apple store to see what the new screens looked like on both the 2.13 MBA and new 13 inch MB and the MB still looked "washed out". The MBA with 9c90 screens still looked much better to me. I get my 2.13 MBA on Monday so my fingers are crossed.;)

[tubbymac]

it's just been discovered that the SATA connection speed on the 13" MacBook Pro's has been cut back, unbelievably, to 1.5 gb.

I'm taking mine back for a refund tomorrow(within 14 day return period).

What on earth is happening at Apple.

Unbelievable. Apple was SO close to making an almost perfect 13 inch Macbook. They literally fixed every single complaint I have with my current unibody 13 Macbook. But then to castrate the performance of the SATA controller like that? Again they are pushing people to the more expensive MBP 15 and the Air, but this time it's a bit too blatant. That's just being cheap.

[Santabean2000]

Unbelievable. Apple was SO close to making an almost perfect 13 inch Macbook. They literally fixed every single complaint I have with my current unibody 13 Macbook. But then to castrate the performance of the SATA controller like that? Again they are pushing people to the more expensive MBP 15 and the Air, but this time it's a bit too blatant. That's just being cheap.

Agreed. Why Apple why??!!

Another lost sale here. I will now wait for the Arrandale 13" and hope that they don't deliberately cripple it too. Ggggrrrrr. :mad::mad:

[Veinticinco]

Hello Veinticinco! Think you and I exchanged some thoughts a while ago re: the upcoming Rev C Air! How you doing? Well(as regards Macs!)I think I know actually as I've been following all the Air threads and reading your comments.
Although I am very happy for those who have gone for the new Air and are happy with it, I have to say that I am 100% in agreement with you as regards it's 'update'.
Anyway, it's all been said. I now find myself in the same boat as you. The Air is not an option for me. The 13" looked like a fabulous alternative as long as the weight increase wasn't too dramatic and the black-bezelled, reflective screen could be tolerated. Well, the weight, although quite a shock after the Air, is just a fact. It has to be accepted. The screen? I had a day of quite simply being horrified by the reflections on black area's, but then gradually started to get used to it and yeah, began to appreciate it's incredible quality.

And now this. I quite simply cannot begin to fathom why Apple can even begin to contemplate such a move. Staggeringly unacceptable. This will grow & grow and a whole lot of people are gonna cause mayhem over it. I had planned on installing a high-end SSD around Autumn(Fall!)time!
Bottom line: it goes back tomorrow for a full refund. My only other option, the 17", I cannot stretch to, so count that as one lost sale for them.

Not that they give a damn. You and I both know that all too well.
So, what to do. Stuck really.
In the meantime, be well, and maybe chat again soon!
Hi Carl,

Yep I'm very much in the same boat/mindset as you right now. Infuriating isn't it?

"New" rev.C MBA is out and there's no way I'm buying it despite how much I love the FF. 2GB is just a bad joke, no reason other than beancounting not to have 4GB on board, then there's the lack of a 256GB SSD option (admittedly it may not be ready but still...) but the fact they've stuck the worst ever display model in the new ones just defies belief. I'd laugh if it wasn't so incompetent.

New 13" MBP - well my initial thoughts were, you have to take your hat off to them, Apple, for producing such an extensive and massive update to the old MB. Pretty much every component upgraded, with a fantastic new display, 256GB SSD option, SEVEN-hour battery (oh so tempting....!), supporting upto EIGHT GIGS (!!!) of RAM, FW port restored (hurray, TDM is back!) and the odd nice gimmick (the SD slot, even if it is a cheapo non-push-release non-flush type).

I've had use of the uMB last October-December, and I absolutely hated its crappy display, made worse by the aesthetics - the black glass slab covering and bezel I just found awful to look at, and nothing's changed on that score.

As for the weight, the MB does weigh 50% more than the MBA, and although in absolute terms we're not talking a lot, it is very noticeable. The MBA is just so much more practical in many different ways, from carrying to storage to use, something that you can't quite quantify by saying 'only 1.5lbs and the same 13" size'. Like having to turn right on a plane again, once you experience the MBA it is almost impossible (ok, painful) to go back to the heft of the 13MBP.

BIG BUT....since I will never purchase anything other than an SSD again, the throttling back to the slower SATA-I 1.5GB speed on the new MBP is just unacceptable. Worse there's just no excuse whatsoever if confirmed true, just a purely cynical 'stealth' exercise to 'protect' sales of the 15" model, now that there's even LESS between them.

It's clear neither machine will satisfy me, and I hate the thought of spending four figures of my money on a piece of hardware that I know to be deeply flawed in one sense or another. If only they could shrink down the matt-screened, silver-bezelled beauty that is the 17" MBP.....

So 2009 for me will be my 'time out' as far as Apple hardware goes. I'm even happily keeping my iPhone 3G with the new 3.0 software update until next summer as opposed to 'upgrading' to the 'new' 3GS ('s' for stopgap clearly).

I just hope 2010 brings with it some serious improvements from Cupertino, both in terms of decision-making, quality control, and offerings. An MBA-style 13" MBP will be my tipping point, and if they release it, I'll probably pick up an iTablet out of curiosity alone. But for now, they are not getting a single penny of my cash, which I'm adamant i'll stick to. Only caveat is if a potential new employer (possibly next month) chooses to buy me a new machine, then of course the 2.13 MBA SSD it will be.

[Carl Abudephane]

Hi Carl,
Yep I'm very much in the same boat/mindset as you right now. Infuriating isn't it?


Hey! Just a quick note as I'm whizzing out, primarily to return this 13" MacBook Pro.
I've just posted this over in the thread devoted to this issue: I 'phoned Apple this morning and they quite simply said, yep, 'I can confirm that this Mac has a SATA I connection.' He said sorry that this Mac didn't fulfill my needs and wished me a good day.

So that's that. Refund. Very interestingly, over in that rapidly-escalating thread, it now also looks as though all the 15" models also have this gimped SATA speed, even though there's no technological reason for it. The speculation as to why seems to be one of the following two reasons(although this is still obviously guesswork):

1. The likely reason, that this is helping them, very largely, get the improved battery times. It's thought not probable that it is solely down to the 'new' battery, and apparently the SATA I connection draws noticably less juice. Best go to that thread to read more on it.

2. Less likely, but still, one never knows; is it somehow connected to the SD slot. The new 13" and 15" both have an SD slot and both(so it looks)have the 1.5Gb throughput speed. The 17" has SATA II. It's already known that the components in these models support SATA II so is this a firmware issue in order to 'accomodate' the SD slot? Or the new battery times? Or Both?!

Right now, battery seems more possible, but as somebody on that thread said, one has to ask oneself - Am I happy to keep this Mac, as it is, knowing this, and just hoping that maybe Apple will fix it at some point?
My answer to that is No.
I cannot believe they've done this to what was potentially looking like a killer laptop. A year from now, SSD's will be everywhere and a lot of folks buying these new Macs now(although not perhaps thinking about dropping an SSD in there now)will then possibly be looking at replacing their HD with one.
After all the Air disppointments, this just fills me with dismay.

edit: Apparently the SATA connection has nothing to do with the SD slot, so scratch that one.

[entatlrg]

Hey! Just a quick note as I'm whizzing out, primarily to return this 13" MacBook Pro.
I've just posted this over in the thread devoted to this issue: I 'phoned Apple this morning and they quite simply said, yep, 'I can confirm that this Mac has a SATA I connection.' He said sorry that this Mac didn't fulfill my needs and wished me a good day.

So that's that. Refund. Very interestingly, over in that rapidly-escalating thread, it now also looks as though all the 15" models also have this gimped SATA speed, even though there's no technological reason for it. The speculation as to why seems to be one of the following two reasons(although this is still obviously guesswork):

1. The likely reason, that this is helping them, very largely, get the improved battery times. It's thought not probable that it is solely down to the 'new' battery, and apparently the SATA I connection draws noticably less juice. Best go to that thread to read more on it.

2. Less likely, but still, one never knows; is it somehow connected to the SD slot. The new 13" and 15" both have an SD slot and both(so it looks)have the 1.5Gb throughput speed. The 17" has SATA II. It's already known that the components in these models support SATA II so is this a firmware issue in order to 'accomodate' the SD slot? Or the new battery times? Or Both?!

Right now, battery seems more possible, but as was somebody on that thread said, one has to ask oneself - Am I happy to keep this Mac, as it is, knowing this, and just hoping that maybe Apple will fix it at some point?
My answer to that is No.
I cannot believe they've done this to what was potentially looking like a killer laptop. A year from now, SSD's will be everywhere and a lot of folks buying these new Macs now(although not perhaps thinking about dropping an SSD in there now)will then possibly be looking at replacing their HD with one.
After all the Air disppointments, this just fills me with dismay.

edit: Apparently the SATA connection has nothing to do with the SD slot, so scratch that one.

Some of your guys are too much !!

As was posted in another thread by another member >>>

"I knew the Apple Elite tend to be impervious to reason, but refusing to order a system or taking it back because of something you can't actually achieve in the real world? Dramatic much?"

Couldn't of said it better myself .... people RELAX... order your MBP's and MBA's and ENJOY them !!!

I can't believe the drama in the Apple world .... and about what? ... things 95% of the people can't notice with the human eye, it's crazy, obsessive and a waste of time... to many people here analyzing the movements of a multi-billion dollar company and you type as if you actually "know" .... comical if nothing else I guess :D

[norsemen]

Can anyone confirm that the SATA connection on the new Airs is 3.0 gb?

[u49aa2]

Another question guys;

Can somebody just gives some examples of how the SATA speed may enhance the SSD. I mean examples of everyday work, please? I just don't understand all the fuss. I have searched but couldn't find anything. Thanks

[iaymnu]

Can anyone confirm that the SATA connection on the new Airs is 3.0 gb?

There is a thread on the Macbook pro section with screen shots.

[Carl Abudephane]

Some of your guys are too much !!

As was posted in another thread by another member >>>

"I knew the Apple Elite tend to be impervious to reason, but refusing to order a system or taking it back because of something you can't actually achieve in the real world? Dramatic much?"

Couldn't of said it better myself .... people RELAX... order your MBP's and MBA's and ENJOY them !!!

I can't believe the drama in the Apple world .... and about what? ... things 95% of the people can't notice with the human eye, it's crazy, obsessive and a waste of time... to many people here analyzing the movements of a multi-billion dollar company and you type as if you actually "know" .... comical is nothing else I guess :D

Fine, you carry on living with your head in the sand. I notice that you have a 13" with SSD on order? You should be concerned.
What I care about(as I was going to install an Intel X-25m)after being in the thread running in the 'Pro' section, are all the comments from people who have just bought a new 13", and have installed their SSD's. Across the board, they are all seeing drastic reductions in speed compared to what they have come from, some from previous UBMBP's.

But hey, none of it matters eh? Yeah, you just carry on being fast asleep with your head in the sand in no-worryland. And while we're on it buddy, learn to spell. Then I might give a damn about what you've got to say.

[Veinticinco]

Hey! Just a quick note as I'm whizzing out, primarily to return this 13" MacBook Pro.
I've just posted this over in the thread devoted to this issue: I 'phoned Apple this morning and they quite simply said, yep, 'I can confirm that this Mac has a SATA I connection.' He said sorry that this Mac didn't fulfill my needs and wished me a good day.

So that's that. Refund. Very interestingly, over in that rapidly-escalating thread, it now also looks as though all the 15" models also have this gimped SATA speed, even though there's no technological reason for it.
Carl, also just on my way out for the evening - will have a look at that SATA thread tomorrow (is it obviously titled or would a link be helpful?).

Thing is I bumped into a friend of mine this afternoon - he's the most tech-savvy person at my other local AAR&SC. I mentioned about this SATA-throttling and he was adamant even on the 13" - no way in hell was his response, 100% tested personally and giving 3GB throughput. So I don't know what to believe now :confused:

He's a former MBA user himself and agreed on what we are both waiting for - the current MBP guts in an MBA case. Only 6-8 months to wait then, sigh.....

[eVolcre]

Carl,

He said it wrong and was bound to rustle some feathers, but you have to admit he does have a valid point.

People on the forums analyze and over analyze defects, upgrades, new features.

Two things

1. 80% of the buyers won't know or care about the difference. Heck, they probably couldn't care about the upgrades at WWDC (FW etc). The PRICE drop is what dragged them into the stores.

2. The 13" MB"P" is still the baby 'consumer' version in the lineup. How many people in that target market would install an SSD by themselves to even care about 1/5 vs 3? Someone with that level of knowledge is probably going to spend more money and get a more powerful machine - the 15 or the 17

3. For the small minority of users in that budgetary range who DO upgrade to the SSD, I highly doubt they will be able to tell the slight difference.

Like it or not, Apple is a BUSINESS. They will sell boatloads of the rebranded MBP because of the price drop and attractive feature set and it probably isn't worth worrying about the 1% techies that care about this issue.


I remember reading in one of your posts that you don't even own a MAC yet. You've been posting here for 2 years. This paralysis by over analysis isn't worth it unless you like debating and looking for 'perfection'. There is nothing wrong with that either but why get upset and rant?

Don't take this the wrong way. I enjoy your posts but you have to admit, based on the above points, this issue is a non issue.

Cheers - eV

[u49aa2]

Carl,

He said it wrong and was bound to rustle some feathers, but you have to admit he does have a valid point.

People on the forums analyze and over analyze defects, upgrades, new features.

Two things

1. 80% of the buyers won't know or care about the difference. Heck, they probably couldn't care about the upgrades at WWDC (FW etc). The PRICE drop is what dragged them into the stores.

2. The 13" MB"P" is still the baby 'consumer' version in the lineup. How many people in that target market would install an SSD by themselves to even care about 1/5 vs 3? Someone with that level of knowledge is probably going to spend more money and get a more powerful machine - the 15 or the 17

3. For the small minority of users in that budgetary range who DO upgrade to the SSD, I highly doubt they will be able to tell the slight difference.

Like it or not, Apple is a BUSINESS. They will sell boatloads of the rebranded MBP because of the price drop and attractive feature set and it probably isn't worth worrying about the 1% techies that care about this issue.


I remember reading in one of your posts that you don't even own a MAC yet. You've been posting here for 2 years. This paralysis by over analysis isn't worth it unless you like debating and looking for 'perfection'. There is nothing wrong with that either but why get upset and rant?

Don't take this the wrong way. I enjoy your posts but you have to admit, based on the above points, this issue is a non issue.

Cheers - eV

eV, you don't mind explaining, the effect of this 1.5 vs. 3 on the speed. is it only on data transferred? or does it effect other things also (like start up, opening applications)?

[Carl Abudephane]

Carl,

He said it wrong and was bound to rustle some feathers, but you have to admit he does have a valid point.

People on the forums analyze and over analyze defects, upgrades, new features.

Two things

1. 80% of the buyers won't know or care about the difference. Heck, they probably couldn't care about the upgrades at WWDC (FW etc). The PRICE drop is what dragged them into the stores.

2. The 13" MB"P" is still the baby 'consumer' version in the lineup. How many people in that target market would install an SSD by themselves to even care about 1/5 vs 3? Someone with that level of knowledge is probably going to spend more money and get a more powerful machine - the 15 or the 17

3. For the small minority of users in that budgetary range who DO upgrade to the SSD, I highly doubt they will be able to tell the slight difference.

Like it or not, Apple is a BUSINESS. They will sell boatloads of the rebranded MBP because of the price drop and attractive feature set and it probably isn't worth worrying about the 1% techies that care about this issue.


I remember reading in one of your posts that you don't even own a MAC yet. You've been posting here for 2 years. This paralysis by over analysis isn't worth it unless you like debating and looking for 'perfection'. There is nothing wrong with that either but why get upset and rant?

Don't take this the wrong way. I enjoy your posts but you have to admit, based on the above points, this issue is a non issue.

Cheers - eV

eVolcre,

Look, I genuinely don't want to have any sort of 'disagreement' with you here, as I too have enjoyed reading your posts 'round these parts for a good while, but I have to take issue with a couple of your comments and, especially, with your comment re: my ownership or otherwise of a Mac.

Firstly, I have never said that I do not own a Mac. I have had an i-Mac G5 since May 2005. Still do in fact, typing on it now. Yeah, it was briefly mothballed when I had my Air, but was swiftly brought back into service when the Air went back. Before that others but that's besides the point.
I am not 'seeking' debate, or perfection for that matter. On the whole I've been more than satisfied with this i-Mac. However, an Air with very noticable lines on the screen was not acceptable, so it went back. Now with this 13" what we have is most definitely not a non-issue and no, I do not think he had a point.
If you read through the long thread about this in the MacBook Pro forum you will read many comments from people who have just installed SSD's and I'm sorry, but the reductions in speed that they are getting are anything but trivial. Would I care about this if I hadn't have been planning on putting an Intel drive in there? Yeah, damn right I would, 'cause it's just plain bad.

Isn't it just obvious? I mean really, c'mon, read the thread.
Also, your comments re: perceptions possibly about the 13" being looked at as a more 'consumer orientated' unit, so those folks probably won't be looking to add SSD's, and that those more tech-savvy would go to the 15" or 17"?
Yeah, I'd give you that if it wasn't for the fact that the 15"(all models)has also been given this 'last gen' SATA speed.

Anyway, I've had enough of this for now. Those who think it a non-issue can carry on being happy with Apple doing this, for whatever reason.
I'm not happy with it, so I suppose you and I are just gonna have to disagree about this!

I repeat, eVolcre, I don't mean to come off as arrogant or combative to you. We both just seem to think a little differently about this!
We'll see what(if anything)comes of this, and if, in the fullness of time, my concerns are shown to be nothing but poppycock, then I'll be the first to stand up and take the custard pies in the face.
Until then, be well!

[eVolcre]

Carl,

Absolutely no offense taken and my apologies, I didn't mean to come off snarky on your mac ownership.

I'm at the Apple store playing with all the new machines, so I'll post a longer reply later. I'm glad you and I are mature respectful posters, we can agree to disagree :)

eV

[entatlrg]

And while we're on it buddy, learn to spell. Then I might give a damn about what you've got to say.

Oh Carl you ARE a perfectionist or an illusionist? ... I rushed and checked all my spelling right away! Spell check and everything! But no mistakes :confused: Maybe with the lines on your screens you can't see the text :eek:

Enough already, your rant posts and jumping on people who voice their opinion is ridiculous as I stated but not for 80% of the people as was suggested here, rather I'd guess 98% of the people.

Consumer or Business users Carl ... they buy their Mac's or PC's, they do their work, enjoy some entertainment etc and for what they and we do the Mac's they do a FINE JOB, I am AMAZED at what my MBA can handle, nothing short of impressive.

You can be picky and choosy all you want, but you're bringing people here down, planting thoughts in their heads and it's just a bunch of whinny negative crap.

I don't write posts like this often, but jump on me you'll get it back.

By the way your rant and whinning about my spelling ??? You'd be best advised to go 'spell check' your previous posts before you suggest someone else can't spell... like I said - ridiculous.

Now, hopefully back to some positive comments and praise for our beloved Mac's :D

[Carl Abudephane]

It was due.
.
Now it ain't.
Bug***k.

[sofaking30]

I think Apple will reveal a longer lasting (in terms of battery) macbook air for the next release, or (as someone mentioned) merge the 13" MBP with the macbook air. Right now, the 13" MBP is very competitive against the air.

[Scottsdale]

Funny that people have to chose the MBA for a faster drive controller. The consumers really won with this update. Low low prices, and Apple cut costs everywhere. The Pros and tech enthusiasts who care about all of the under the hood specs lost BIG!

[entatlrg]

Can you enlighten us and explain how pro's and tech fans lost out "BIG" ?? You're referring to possible changes not detectable by the human eye and changes that won't negatively affect what about 98% of all users?

Enough already ... all these cool updates to MacBooks and all this WHINING about things completely unnoticeable to 98 out of 100 buyers ...

I think people should be praising Apple with these last updates, all the tech experts are rolling out positive reviews, people can't buy them fast enough but this forum is recently littered with whinny posts about things people won't notice, it makes no sense.

[Scottsdale]

Can you enlighten us and explain how pro's and tech fans lost out "BIG" ?? You're referring to possible changes not detectable by the human eye and changes that won't negatively affect what about 98% of all users?

Enough already ... all these cool updates to MacBooks and all this WHINING about things completely unnoticeable to 98 out of 100 buyers ...

I think people should be praising Apple with these last updates, all the tech experts are rolling out positive reviews, people can't buy them fast enough but this forum is recently littered with whinny posts about things people won't notice, it makes no sense.

UM, really. I am saying that the 90+ percent of buyers called CONSUMERS won big with the price cuts and changes.

Price cuts = OBVIOUS??? Isn't it?

Changes = LOSS OF EXPRESS CARD - BIG LOSS for PROS who use it! It's basically one port that allows many types of expansion cards from video, to audio, and etc etc. Pros lose big with that one.

Changes = 1.5 Gb SATA drive controller - another loser for those who want to expand to SSD themselves and are stuck without the 3 Gb/s SATA-II tech used by nearly every computer manufactured today except the MBPs. CONSUMERS who usually only have HDDs will not see the difference as it takes a high end SSD to take advantage of greater than 1.5 Gb/s transfer speed... again PROS have the SSDs and tech enthusiasts have the SSDs.

Changes = SD Card slot - PROS do NOT use this digital format with their DSLRs and such. AGAIN, advantage CONSUMERs... and the Pros lost the ability to use the Express Card for an expansion card reader for their cameras.

Changes = 9400m/integrated vs. dedicated - consumers usually don't need the performance of dedicated graphics cards, but tech enthusiasts like gamers too need them and so do Pros for high end graphics work... now, the problem here is the 13" MBP isn't really a PRO in that sense as it doesn't have the dedicated graphics like even a 12" PowerBook had. Pros have been begging for a 12" MBP, but this MBP will not work for the REAL PRO. It is more geared to the consumers! As far as the 15," it doesn't really matter on the lowest priced model, as the two high end are available nearly for the same price as was before with dedicated cards.

Changes = GLASSY/GLOSSY DISPLAYS - Pros are begging and crying for 15" MBPs with anti-glare displays, and Apple refuses to oblige because they are into shiny and glossy because it looks better for CONSUMERS... CONSUMERS BUY SHINY GLOSSY THINGS! Pros prefer no glare.

The new MBP is a marketing plan more than ever. Graphics professionals who used to be the primary buyer/targeted buyer of the MacBook Pro have really been left out here with all of the changes in a sense. Instead of getting Pro Mac notebooks that catered more to real pros, Apple made a choice to go "CONSUMER" with nearly all of the Mac notebook line.

Hey, I am a CONSUMER. I won big time. I ain't complaining! I love all of the changes, except I am somewhat of a tech enthusiast... and I think the SATA drive controller is BS, because SSDs are the best/fastest/easiest way to speed up any notebook! It's sad if Apple really axed the tech for all those not willing to buy an SSD from Apple. Drives were always a way both Pros and consumers could easily upgrade their Mac.

So, you obviously misunderstood my point. I am not complaining, or WHINING AS YOU PUT IT, but I firmly understand why a lot of pros would be pissed!

Heck, I bought an MBA for a $700 discount... why would I complain other than the lines on the display? I am not really even complaining, but I am trying to find out how to get rid of the lines or get one without lines.

Why don't you go back to my prior post and figure out why you decided to criticize me when I ain't (I love typing that) complaining!

LIGHTEN UP... you... you... you... CONSUMER!