New Snow Leopard Features Continue to Emerge

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/12/new-snow-leopard-features-continue-to-emerge/)

In the days since Apple previewed the forthcoming Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard at its Worldwide Developers Conference keynote and distributed a new build to conference attendees, users have been scouring the new operating system and its associated documentation and promotional materials looking for new features. Mac|Life reports (http://www.maclife.com/article/news/10_snow_leopard_features_philnote_forgot_mention_0) on ten features that have received relatively little publicity. While a few them have been mentioned here previously and many are listed on Apple's Enhancements and Refinements (http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/enhancements-refinements.html) page, Mac|Life's report provides a nice summary and we offer a few of the highlights for discussion.

- Expanded Multi-Touch Capabilities for Older Notebooks: Snow Leopard will bring 3- and 4-finger multi-touch gestures to multi-touch notebooks that currently do not support (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/09/snow-leopard-to-add-4-finger-multi-touch-gestures-to-original-macbook-air/) all available finger gestures. Examples of the gestures that will make their way to the older notebooks include swipe for Exposé and swipe for switching applications.

- iChat Video Chat Improvements: iChat Theater content can be displayed at up to a resolution of 640 x 480 pixels in Snow Leopard, four times that of OS X Leopard. iChat in Snow Leopard also requires only 300 Kbps upstream bandwidth for video chats, one-third that of the bandwidth required in Leopard.

- "Auto Web Spots": Part of Apple's improvements to Accessibility, auto web spots aid in locating specific information sections on complicated Web pages. Users can navigate from spot to spot with a simple keystroke or flick of the finger.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/06/12/151125-auto_web_spots.jpg


Article Link: New Snow Leopard Features Continue to Emerge (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/12/new-snow-leopard-features-continue-to-emerge/)

[swissmad]

So happy about the support for multi-touch gestures. It's a remarkable generous thing for Apple to do, wouldn't you agree?

[Pugpuppydude]

The "Auto Web-spots" feature looks really interesting and useful! Now I can be even more lazier and move my fingers less =)

[Sky Blue]

I think the Multitouch is just for the early 2008 MBPs is it not?

[Chase R]

Gettin' better and better every day!

Do any of you know if SL will be more optimized for SSDs than the current version of Leopard?

[diamond.g]

The notebooks with multi finger gestures are the ones that already have some other gesture support correct? IE a late 2006 Macbook wont be getting swipes and stuff.

[tbobmccoy]

The notebooks with multi finger gestures are the ones that already have some other gesture support correct? IE a late 2006 Macbook wont be getting swipes and stuff.

Too bad. I always was a bit suspicious about multitouch not working for MacBooks that already two finger scroll... it just seems like that's a software thing. Oh well. I guess I'll have to upgrade when my warranty runs out in November... wonder if MBPs will get a real update then? :confused:

[DistanceSwimmer]

This will be awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like the iChat improvements!

[mynameisraj]

I'm really looking forward to the new iChat (router problems anyone?) and Auto Web Spots… Snow Leopard is gonna be great :)

[Saladinos]

If you remove the additional languages and printer drivers, Snow Leopard takes 4.0Gb space. You can easily fit that on to a cheap USB stick or SD card for a portable backup system.

Also, there is a new "CoreWLAN" framework in /System/Library/Frameworks, indicating a more structured WLAN system which may make it easier for hackintosh developers to write WLAN drivers for their unsupported cards. So far, these developers have been unable to write drivers for the system due to the system's lack of documentation.

[diamond.g]

Too bad. I always was a bit suspicious about multitouch not working for MacBooks that already two finger scroll... it just seems like that's a software thing. Oh well. I guess I'll have to upgrade when my warranty runs out in November... wonder if MBPs will get a real update then? :confused:

I was really asking as a question... As my main laptop is a late 2006 Macbook. I still need the finance committee to authorize a 13" MBP purchase...

[FSMBP]

Is the article wrong? It says bring 3-4 finger gestures to MacBooks that can only do 2 Finger gestures (aka every MacBook before Feb 2008).

So does that mean my MacBook Pro (from June 2007) will get more than the 2 finger gestures (scroll, right click)????

NEVERMIND: when to Apple' website, and it says bringing more gestures to all Multi-touch notebooks (aka MacBook Pros from Feb 2008) :(

The ARTICLE needs to be CORRECTED!!!!!!

[Doctor Q]

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!

[pounce]

any idea if snow leopard will improve merging and sync for multiple mac households.

for instance, have my wife and my ical calendars be able to merge via our home network, or otherwise sync calenders, contacts, photos, etc.

in fact, i'd like to sync my itunes library between my macbook pro and the mac pro in my studio space.

there are third party apps to help with al of this, otoh, i was hoping that snow leopard would just have some of this built in. i can't be the only one with more than one mac, and smarter merge and sync functions would be most welcome.

any idea if that will be coming from snow leopard?

otherwise, the better ichat and gestures and such are quite welcome.

[niuniu]

Really looking forward to the multi-touch features and also to see how the gf takes to trying the Chinese characters on it (she's Chinese and I'm buying her a 13inch MBP at the end of the month)

[jmann]

I am excited about iChat quality! That is great that it is getting so efficient.

[diamond.g]

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!

It appears that they are probably using a slightly more complex h.264 profile. Allowing for more bandwidth/space savings at the expense of more CPU/GPU usage.

[Chaszmyr]

I can't wait to shell out $29 for this... Of course, if it had a fresh new UI, I probably couldn't wait to shell out $129. I'm a sucker for shiny new things.

[aristobrat]

Too bad. I always was a bit suspicious about multitouch not working for MacBooks that already two finger scroll... it just seems like that's a software thing.
Apple follows accounting rules that says new features can't be added to old products without charging for them (with the exception of the iPhone and AppleTV, which Apple decided to account for differently than their other products).

They sold some Macs a few years ago with 802.11n not enabled. A few months later, Apple enabled it, but you had to buy the update for like $3 (because adding 802.11n counted as adding a new feature). People went nuts.

So now they just wait until the next paid software update comes out to do stuff like this.

Fun, huh? :eek:

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!
Maybe they had the Skype folks rewrite it for them. Skyped always worked flawlessly for me when iChat was acting up (because of bandwidth).

[Cabbit]

I can't wait to shell out $29 for this... Of course, if it had a fresh new UI, I probably couldn't wait to shell out $129. I'm a sucker for shiny new things.
Why is the UI worth $100 and features, performance, speed, stability and security worth only $29 :rolleyes:

[Chaszmyr]

Why is the UI worth $100 and features, performance, speed, stability and security worth only $29 :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, if Apple put a $129 price tag on Snow Leopard without a new UI, I have no doubt I would pay that too... I was just really hoping for a new UI!

[billystlyes]

Slow news day? This stuff has been listed on Apple's site since day one.:rolleyes:

[Cabbit]

Don't get me wrong, if Apple put a $129 price tag on Snow Leopard without a new UI, I have no doubt I would pay that too... I was just really hoping for a new UI!
Apple tends to slowly change the UI over time instead of rolling out major changes right away. So you'll see a new UI slowly but surely before you even notice it has happened

[JCastro]

I am excited about the iChat upgrades. I travel frequently and their isn't always the best internet connection. 300kbs is a huge advancement vs. 900kbs!

The multi-touch changes will be great for my brothers MBP! We had to hack it to get it to do it up till now.

[tsirko]

Why is the UI worth $100 and features, performance, speed, stability and security worth only $29 :rolleyes:


the UI makes you cool :P like Vista over XP :eek:

no really UI is fine but I always like changes!

[Michael73]

I applaud Apple's continuing improvement of their Accessibility options. This always seemed to be an afterthought IMHO for another unnamed Redmond-based business. Maybe not used by all, but certainly important for those that need it.

Heck, I never used the Speech functionality until my father who lives in NY started writing emails to my 5 year old. While my son is a good reader, it's still easier for him to highlight the email and have it read to him while he follows along.

[Quillz]

A lot these features are things that probably should have been added a long time ago, but it's good there finally here now. I think making lots of minor improvements to already existing features is much better than adding only a few major features, most of which are gimmicky and useless.

[sd2009]

So happy about the support for multi-touch gestures. It's a remarkable generous thing for Apple to do, wouldn't you agree?
Yes its an honor to be blessed with the opportunity to purchase their OS!

[Ed State]

Anyone know if FONT BOOK and font handling in general will be updated?

I still wrestle weekly w/ my many Helvetica versions :(

[Peace]

It appears that they are probably using a slightly more complex h.264 profile. Allowing for more bandwidth/space savings at the expense of more CPU/GPU usage.

It's more likely the way the stream is cut up into blocks of data differently.

[calsci]

does this mean my white 2009 macbook will finally get the multi-touch i never thought it could get. will i seriously have multi touch on my macbook.

[twoodcc]

nice little features there. looking forward to snow leopard!

[Sky Blue]

does this mean my white 2009 macbook will finally get the multi-touch i never thought it could get. will i seriously have multi touch on my macbook.

No.

[Eidorian]

It appears that they are probably using a slightly more complex h.264 profile. Allowing for more bandwidth/space savings at the expense of more CPU/GPU usage.Anything to do with video chat is a battery killer. We'll probably see more disparity between the 9400M hardware and non.

[Quillz]

Oh, and one "new" feature: The infamous "open folder bug" in Leopard has been fixed in Snow Leopard!

[calsci]

well that stinks that i won't get multi touch. it would have been a pleasant surprise if i had gotten it.

[Tallest Skil]

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!

First, LOVE the new avatar. Will you update to a higher-res version once the real icon is available?

Second, (and to anyone) if you have a webcam capable of higher resolution video than a standard iSight, say 2048x1536, would that be possible to stream in an iChat videoconference?

[reallynotnick]

I must of been the only one to actually read about all the new features in Snow Leopard on Apple's site after the keynote because they have been up for a couple of days.

[nuckinfutz]

I must of been the only one to actually read about all the new features in Snow Leopard on Apple's site after the keynote because they have been up for a couple of days.

That's because books are like Kryptonite to many. Anything longer than a handful of paragraphs and they break out in a cold sweat.

[ziggyonice]

I think the Multitouch is just for the early 2008 MBPs is it not?

I can't imagine it'd work with my first gen MBP... if it did though... that'd be incredible.

[GenNovE]

So happy about the support for multi-touch gestures. It's a remarkable generous thing for Apple to do, wouldn't you agree?

I agree on the fact that it will be implemented.

But obviously something thats been there since the beginning to now be implmented is just wrong. The main selling point for models after the old macbooks was the ability for multi touch. This coming out now seems more like a lie and deciet.

Now we have to pay extra for something thats been there since the begining type of thing.

I know people will defend apple to death specially with the low price of 29 dollars. But overall snow leopard is a software update that is usally pushed for free.

But whatever people will defend it to death even if its wrong.

[FSMBP]

Yeah, I already read everything once Apple updated the page. But the MacRumors article claims that Snow Leopard will give all MacBooks 3 and 4 finger gestures so I second guessed myself.

Low and behold, MacRumors is wrong.

Edit: The article is updated to the right info now.

[tbobmccoy]

Apple follows accounting rules that says new features can't be added to old products without charging for them (with the exception of the iPhone and AppleTV, which Apple decided to account for differently than their other products).

They sold some Macs a few years ago with 802.11n not enabled. A few months later, Apple enabled it, but you had to buy the update for like $3 (because adding 802.11n counted as adding a new feature). People went nuts.

Yeah, I know. The late 2006 MacBooks were among the first that were shipped with a 802.11n Airport card in them that was advertised as a 802.11g, so I purchased the upgrade for 3 bucks. This would be different though, because Snow Leopard is where they're charging you for the upgraded features ($29 dollars for me since I have Leopard), but if they can't/won't, then I'll probably pass on Snow Leopard until I get a new MacBook Pro. Besides, OpenCL will suck on an Intel integrated gfx card anyway :rolleyes:

[DELLsFan]

All this hype and still not shipping til September? Isn't Win 7 shipping sooner?

[Quillz]

All this hype and still not shipping til September? Isn't Win 7 shipping sooner?
Windows 7 ships on October 22, 2009.

[flopticalcube]

Besides, OpenCL will suck on an Intel integrated gfx card anyway :rolleyes:
It'll do worse than suck, it won't work at all. :)

[DELLsFan]

Windows 7 ships on October 22, 2009.

Really? I thought I read somewhere that Microsoft was wanting to get the retail boxes on the shelves much earlier than this. 3 months earlier than this, to be precise. :confused:

[Quillz]

Really? I thought I read somewhere that Microsoft was wanting to get the retail boxes on the shelves much earlier than this. 3 months earlier than this, to be precise. :confused:
Don't know where you read this. The original RTM was supposed to be in 2010, and now it's coming out sooner, in time for the holiday shopping season.

What you probably read was that the RTM itself will be ready by July or August.

[flopticalcube]

Really? I thought I read somewhere that Microsoft was wanting to get the retail boxes on the shelves much earlier than this. 3 months earlier than this, to be precise. :confused:
Possible download date of August some time: http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows_7_ships_oct_22_says_microsoft_or_earlier

October 22 for the packaging.

[tgildred]

But whatever people will defend it to death even if its wrong.

And some people will criticize it even if it's right. That's just the way it goes. Then again, maybe it's a matter of opinion, and nobody's right or wrong.

[kockgunner]

Wow, I've tried Snow Leopard and it's so much faster. Addressbook, iCal, and even Safari open in one bounce. I can't wait for the official release!

[rick98761]

if I install this will it update just like regular OS X, or with each new seed will I have to reinstall the whole thing?

[headfuzz]

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!

Possibly incorporating their proprietary ProRes422 codec - or a derivative - somehow, which can encode HD quality video at SD quality filesizes. For streaming video window sizes ProRes422 would fit the bill for having reduced bandwidth requirements by 2/3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProRes_422

[DELLsFan]

Don't know where you read this. The original RTM was supposed to be in 2010, and now it's coming out sooner, in time for the holiday shopping season.

What you probably read was that the RTM itself will be ready by July or August.

That must be it. <<sigh>> No OS upgrade love for any of us until the fall. Maybe I'll download the RC and see what it's like first. :D

[Truffy]

TBH, if these are new features, it's just as well that Apple isn't selling on features alone. None of these mean a goddam thing to me. Really.

Performance, on the other hand makes for less pretty pictures :)

[flopticalcube]

That must be it. <<sigh>> No OS upgrade love for any of us until the fall. Maybe I'll download the RC and see what it's like first. :D
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I know I was. BTW, there is no upgrade path for XP, in case anyone was wondering.

[macuser154]

Will my Mid 2007 MBP get some of the multi-touch features?

[amacisbetter]

Snow Leopard is really starting to look/sound great! I'm a little disappointed that Apple won't be supporting my iMac G5 which still has plenty of life left in it. But, that is progress. Besides, I've been looking to get a new iMac anyways. I think I'll wait until Snow Leopard comes out and then upgrade. Not only will the computer be faster, but the OS itself is going to be way faster. I'm not gonna know what to do with all of that speed!! :eek: :apple:

[Jayomat]

- Expanded Multi-Touch Capabilities for Older Notebooks: Snow Leopard will bring 3- and 4-finger multi-touch gestures to multi-touch notebooks that currently do not support all available finger gestures. Examples of the gestures that will make their way to the older notebooks include swipe for Exposé and swipe for switching applications.

can i dream about mtg on my late 07 macbook? ;)

[Quillz]

That must be it. <<sigh>> No OS upgrade love for any of us until the fall. Maybe I'll download the RC and see what it's like first. :D
Actually, right now you can upgrade to an alpha release of Ubuntu 9.10. There's an OS that gets better with every release.

[Rewes]

How about making the iChat to support MSN so that I could actually use it with someone I know.

[Tallest Skil]

How about making the iChat to support MSN so that I could actually use it with someone I know.

You have it backwards. iChat's protocols came first.

And you can do that NOW. I do.

[bchreng]

Why is the UI worth $100 and features, performance, speed, stability and security worth only $29 :rolleyes:

Because performance, speed, stability and security are pretty much a given when it comes to OSX! :D

[InvalidUserID]

Hopefully the new iChat improvement will take care of the occasional poor quality video.

[looman9635]

so will macbook whites get the zoom gestures and things like that

[bchreng]

so will macbook whites get the zoom gestures and things like that

I hope they do. Mine supports 2 finger scrolling so I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to add in some additional gesture support.

[Sky Blue]

so will macbook whites get the zoom gestures and things like that

No

[Tallest Skil]

I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to add in some additional gesture support.

Except the hardware can't do it.

[bchreng]

Except the hardware can't do it.

My $200 netbook has hardware support for it, but my $800 whitebook doesn't?! Lame :(

[Eidorian]

My $200 netbook has hardware support for it, but my $800 whitebook doesn't?! Lame :(It's amazing what you can really do with Synaptics' drivers as well.

[wms121]

...the software engineers are in their political season again, found this at
Google search (Rhinocerus.net):


http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-functional/496883-alternatives-intel-tbb-cilk.html

It would be SO WONDERFUL if these concurrent vs. parallel technologies got
worked out for OpenCL (and highly accessible software packages like Python's
recent releases under Py 3.0...) see:

http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=OpenMp+python

ww

[Chaszmyr]

My $200 netbook has hardware support for it, but my $800 whitebook doesn't?! Lame :(

Paying more doesn't guarantee you get all the same features and more. You'll find a number of features on a Prius that you won't find on a Ferrari, for example.

It's all a matter of what it's built to do, what features were available at the time it was produced, etc.

[polaris20]

How could it require one-third the bandwidth for video iChat? Have they really improved their compression that much? That's quite a change!

I don't know what they did, but it's a welcomed addition. We use iChat tied into our own SSL encrypted XMPP server, and the video already was outstanding, even compared to Skype.

I can't think of another solution that's effectively free that allows 640x480 video under control of the company/user, while also allowing presentation of documents.

It's an amazing app!

[Sk8musiclife64]

Wow, I've tried Snow Leopard and it's so much faster. Addressbook, iCal, and even Safari open in one bounce. I can't wait for the official release!

Mine always has... All of those applications open before the bounce is done...

[kugino]

i'm actually more excited about snow leopard than i was about leopard...the refinements in SL look very good - no minor stuff, but stuff that we all use on a day to day basis and would really make a difference. $29 is a steal, IMO.

[*LTD*]

Keeps getting better and better. Though Leopard was already great to begin with.

[elppa]

i'm actually more excited about snow leopard than i was about leopard...the refinements in SL look very good - no minor stuff, but stuff that we all use on a day to day basis and would really make a difference. $29 is a steal, IMO.

I'd very much agree, having exposé windows line up correctly (and not randomly), having titles displayed by default, having minimised windows displayed in exposé and the integration of exposé into the Dock means far more to me and will make a far greater day to day difference than a 3D Dock and Transparent menu bar.

[AidenShaw]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I know I was. BTW, there is no upgrade path for XP, in case anyone was wondering.

Just upgrade to Vista, then immediately upgrade to Win7. It takes more time, but not more money.

I just wish that they'd allow upgrading 32-bit systems to 64-bit systems. As it is, you can't upgrade, you need to do a clean 64-bit install.

[CameronT]

Apple follows accounting rules that says new features can't be added to old products without charging for them (with the exception of the iPhone and AppleTV, which Apple decided to account for differently than their other products).

This is pretty much an urban legend. The rules don't say anything about old products, charging for them, etc.

What it changes is how the company can account for the development charges (expense vs. capitalize).

Always happy to be wrong if someone can point out the accounting pronouncement - but I've never seen it.

[JPark]

The only feature I want is the ability to do recurring tasks (not events) in iCal based on the completion date. I've scoured apple's site, but it doesn't look like it made it into Snow Leopard. Can anybody with the developer release tell me if that feature is there?

[Sky Blue]

The only feature I want is the ability to do recurring tasks (not events) in iCal based on the completion date. I've scoured apple's site, but it doesn't look like it made it into Snow Leopard. Can anybody with the developer release tell me if that feature is there?

Not there

[JPark]

Not there

DANG IT!!! Son of a motherless hamster! Flying monkeys!!!

Alright, I'm feeling better now. I just really wish Apple would bring their calendar app into this decade before it's over.

[Stike]

300 kbps means that you can actually use 3G to use iChat Video? 384 kbps is the 3G upload limit...

[elppa]

Do Quicktime Movies playback in the Dock like they used to in Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4.11?

[Sky Blue]

Do Quicktime Movies playback in the Dock like they used to in Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4.11?

No

[Quillz]

Do Quicktime Movies playback in the Dock like they used to in Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4.11?

Nope. I don't understand why this was removed in both Leopard and Snow Leopard. Seems like a regression to me, especially since Steve made such a big deal about it in the original Mac OS X demo from 2000.

[SandynJosh]

That's because books are like Kryptonite to many. Anything longer than a handful of paragraphs and they break out in a cold sweat.

It's called the "MTV attention span" that most people have. If given more than three paragraphs to read, they forget what the first part said by the time they get to the middle.

You see it a lot on this site. You can count on someone within the first 10 posts to ask a question that was clearly answered in the text at the top of the page.

[Quillz]

DANG IT!!! Son of a motherless hamster! Flying monkeys!!!

Alright, I'm feeling better now. I just really wish Apple would bring their calendar app into this decade before it's over.

To be fair, I believe iCal is the one application Apple doesn't develop in-house. It's done by some company based in France, IIRC.

[Tallest Skil]

Do Quicktime Movies playback in the Dock like they used to in Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4.11?

What do you mean by this?

[Sky Blue]

What do you mean by this?

You used to be able to minimize a video whilst it was playing and it would continue to play in the dock.

[Tallest Skil]

You used to be able to minimize a video whilst it was playing and it would continue to play in the dock.

Oh, I see. I was confused because it DOES continue to play, but the video doesn't update. Got it now.

[daveslc]

Will Apple Mail still suck?

[Eidorian]

You used to be able to minimize a video whilst it was playing and it would continue to play in the dock.I wonder why they don't do that anymore.

[SandynJosh]

This is pretty much an urban legend. The rules don't say anything about old products, charging for them, etc.

The only word on this that I have ever seen has to do with how the iTouch is not classified within Apple the same way the iPhone is. So upgrades on the iTouch have a user cost, while no such charge applies to the same upgrade on an iPhone.

Apple used to provide OS upgrades at no charge but began to use them as a revenue stream sometime around system 7. The $29 SL upgrade is pretty close to a wash for the cost of putting the OS on the media and whatever other stuff they shove inb the box.

Apple seems to have a lot less maintenance costs on OSX than MicroSoft has. I base that on the amount of patches MicroSoft puts out in an year compared to Apple. It would seem that maintenance has got to cost a fair amount and the only way to cover it would be to capture it with the cost of the OS, or require a subscription charge once a customer has the OS.

I wasn't able to tell if QuickTime got upgraded to the place QuickTime Pro is/was, or whether there will also be a QuickTime Pro having some additional features going forward into SL.

[SandynJosh]

Will Apple Mail still suck?

Yeah...Like a Hoover without the bag attached.

[Sky Blue]

Will Apple Mail still suck?

Nope. It's still awesome.

[Eidorian]

Will Apple Mail still suck?At least you can Force Quit Mail now. In Tiger it was hopeless. Lets not even bring up NFS mounting home directories.

[sg.hill]

I know people will defend apple to death specially with the low price of 29 dollars. But overall snow leopard is a software update that is usally pushed for free.

What? This is the company that wants $29 for the Pro version of QuickTime.

I don't know of a case where a program has been rewritten with 64-bit support and released as a free update. Outlook 2007 did get noticeably faster with the latest office service pack, but it certainly didn't shrink in size nor is it now 64-bit. Snow Leopard had several pieces rewritten -- when is that usually "pushed for free?"

The view of Snow Leopard "overall" depends on the intent of the user. If the only thing you're going to notice is new multitouch support for older laptops and a trash can that empties faster, I could see how a user would want that for free. If you're going to connect to an Exchange 2007 Server and program with Grand Central Dispatch all day, it's probably worth way more than QuickTime Pro to you.

Definitely isn't the greatest news for people who have had the hardware for multitouch all along, but that's how marketing goes.

[SandynJosh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flopticalcube
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I know I was. BTW, there is no upgrade path for XP, in case anyone was wondering.

Just upgrade to Vista, then immediately upgrade to Win7. It takes more time, but not more money.

I just wish that they'd allow upgrading 32-bit systems to 64-bit systems. As it is, you can't upgrade, you need to do a clean 64-bit install.

I think he/she meant that "Vista" isn't an "upgrade" while "System 7" is a sidegrade. :D

[evilspoons]

Everyone asking about multitouch:

I am willing to bet it simply brings 3 and 4 finger gestures to Rev E (Feb 2008) MacBook Pros. These are the ones that were introduced having the two-finger rotate and pinch gestures. This indicates the hardware is capable of tracking multiple fingers rather than just detecting there are "one" or "more than one" locations activated.

I hope I am wrong and I get 3 and 4 finger gestures on my Rev D MBP (the best I have now is two-finger scrolling and right-click) but I don't believe the touchpad is physically capable of obtaining the required information.

[Sky Blue]

Everyone asking about multitouch:

I am willing to bet it simply brings 3 and 4 finger gestures to Rev E (Feb 2008) MacBook Pros.

This is exactly what it does, as Apple have stated. Those that think software will give them new hardware are in for a disappointment.

[cg0def]

Hum early 2008 MBPs already had 3 finger gestures. 10.6 brings 4 finger gestures to them. On thing that was no mentioned anywhere is that proxy settings have been greatly improved and work a lot better than before. There are still some weird things like the hosts file is not being read while using a proxy but that is kinda expected.

Oh yeah Java is updated to the latest release ( revision 13 ) so no more exploits.

[Sean0109]

I have a 17" Macbook Pro that I got in the summer of 2007. I know it recognizes two finger gestures. Will it recognize three and four-finger gestures with Snow Leopard?

[Sky Blue]

I have a 17" Macbook Pro that I got in the summer of 2007. I know it recognizes two finger gestures. Will it recognize three and four-finger gestures with Snow Leopard?

No. MBPs didn't have Multi-Touch until Early 2008.

[dragossh]

My Early 2008 MacBook can recognize more than two fingers under Linux. So, the hardware is definitely capable of at least some “multi-touch” gestures (that don’t need to know where the fingers are in relation to each other). I would be happy to just get three finger gestures for Exposé and the app switcher.

[FSMBP]

My Early 2008 MacBook can recognize more than two fingers under Linux. So, the hardware is definitely capable of at least some “multi-touch” gestures (that don’t need to know where the fingers are in relation to each other). I would be happy to just get three finger gestures for Exposé and the app switcher.

Are you talking about MacBook or MacBook Pro? The reason is that last time I checked MacBooks (pre-late 2008) couldn't recognize more than 2 fingers.

And if you're talking about a regular MacBook is there any proof about Linux being able to recognize more than 2 fingers (just wondering).

EDIT: Nevermind, I find a couple articles and this webpage http://www.randomtruth.110mb.com/blog/index.php

[RyanR.]

I agree on the fact that it will be implemented.

But obviously something thats been there since the beginning to now be implmented is just wrong. The main selling point for models after the old macbooks was the ability for multi touch. This coming out now seems more like a lie and deciet.

Now we have to pay extra for something thats been there since the begining type of thing.

I know people will defend apple to death specially with the low price of 29 dollars. But overall snow leopard is a software update that is usally pushed for free.

But whatever people will defend it to death even if its wrong.

Your right! But, I waste $29 all the time on bogus software or something that I'll use a handful of times and either get frustrated or board with... and when I used a PC that was a lot of time rebooting.

So yes I'll pay the $50 for Family Pack. I'm very impressed with all the little features that they have been working on.

[imacdaddy]

I'd really love to use Multi-Touch features in SL on my Mac Pro. I hope Apple/someone comes up with a multi-touch peripheral for us desktop (MP/iMac) mac users.

[puercaeli]

It seems like pre-multitouch era Macbook Pro can still recognise three fingers at least(although I am not sure how reliable it its...)

I figured this out by trying two fingers than three fingers on my non-multi touch macbook pro. When you swipe with three fingers, cursor does not move(i.e. it does not recognise as one finger or two fingers).

So it seems like Apple can try for three fingers on older ones if they are willing...

[t0mat0]

I'd really love to use Multi-Touch features in SL on my Mac Pro. I hope Apple/someone comes up with a multi-touch peripheral for us desktop (MP/iMac) mac users.

Maybe they have (http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/)... ?

[eastercat]

Even though I'll hold off on snow leopard for a while, I'm really excited about getting three and four finger gestures on my multitouch MBP. :)

[FSMBP]

It seems like pre-multitouch era Macbook Pro can still recognise three fingers at least(although I am not sure how reliable it its...)

I figured this out by trying two fingers than three fingers on my non-multi touch macbook pro. When you swipe with three fingers, cursor does not move(i.e. it does not recognise as one finger or two fingers).

So it seems like Apple can try for three fingers on older ones if they are willing...

I think the trackpad can recognize one or two fingers. If it isn't one or two, the trackpad assumes nothing is on it (i.e. no accidentally moving the mouse while typing if your palm hits the trackpad).

But I hope I'm wrong seeing as how Random Through's blog is using software to enable multi-touch on older MacBooks.

[daveslc]

Nope. It's still awesome.

??

[Bubba Satori]

BTW, there is no upgrade path for XP, in case anyone was wondering.

That's not true.

http://www.itexaminer.com/microsoft-reveals-xp-to-windows-7-upgrade-path.aspx

http://www.pcworld.com/article/159933/the_xp_to_windows_7_upgrade_path.html

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/01/windows_7_a_cla.html?campaign_id=rss_blog_techbeat

[thecheda]

About time they implemented in the older models.

[nvbrit]

Oh, I see. I was confused because it DOES continue to play, but the video doesn't update. Got it now.

to clarify this further... when you minimized a Quicktime movie the thumbnail icon in the dock would be the movie in tiny form, still playing, meaning you could physically still watch the little tiny version

[Rewes]

You have it backwards. iChat's protocols came first.

And you can do that NOW. I do.


Please, elaborate. I don't know anyone outside of the US who would use AIM.

[Mackan]

Apple follows accounting rules that says new features can't be added to old products without charging for them (with the exception of the iPhone and AppleTV, which Apple decided to account for differently than their other products).

They sold some Macs a few years ago with 802.11n not enabled. A few months later, Apple enabled it, but you had to buy the update for like $3 (because adding 802.11n counted as adding a new feature). People went nuts.

So now they just wait until the next paid software update comes out to do stuff like this.

Fun, huh? :eek:

Where are these 'suck every penny out of our customers' -rules coming from? Apple specific only? Enlighten me, someone.

[randfee2]

- iChat Video Chat Improvements: iChat Theater content can be displayed at up to a resolution of 640 x 480 pixels in Snow Leopard, four times that of OS X Leopard. iChat in Snow Leopard also requires only 300 Kbps upstream bandwidth for video chats, one-third that of the bandwidth required in Leopard.


that just can't be true!!! I've been using videochat since it was available.... and I only have 160kbit up!!!


http://www.speedtest.net/result/494816939.png
edit, just checked, as you can see I got even less, yet videochat works! Please correct this bunch of misinformation!

[odedia]

All these features are already listed on apple's page.

[gorjan]

So the maximum resolution in iChat in Leopard is 320x240? It looks much better though if that's the case.

Why not 720p video? iSight should be able to capture it, shouldn't it? :)

[elppa]

To be fair, I believe iCal is the one application Apple doesn't develop in-house. It's done by some company based in France, IIRC.

Initially is was, the company was an small American computer company based in California, Apple I think they were called.

Now development is back in Cupertino.

One of the engineers who built iCal was an ex NeXT engineer: Hullot I think his name was. I believe he also worked on the very first Interface Builder.

Actually Mac OS X owes a lot to the French, with Bertrand Serlet of course being French as well.

Will Apple Mail still suck?

It has a few bugs, but so does every other app in it's class.

The UI is very simple and clear and it integrates some nice features without complication or clutter (data detectors, the stationery).

For me Mail is a poster-child for what being a good OS X application is about.

EDIT: Checked those facts on wikipedia: iCal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICal) and Jean-Marie Hullot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Hullot)

[flottenheimer]

I'm sooo ready for SL.
The only thing that disappoints me is that they didn't give it a visual overhaul.

[tekio]

This is exactly what it does, as Apple have stated. Those that think software will give them new hardware are in for a disappointment.

No need for new hardware, multitouch works on my macbook under linux. No reason apple can't do it.

[BRLawyer]

Will Apple Mail still suck?

Does it suck? Where?

For me there is no better mail client, and it never crashes. And please don't even start with Entourage or other crappy open source alternatives.

[coleridge78]

It has a few bugs, but so does every other app in it's class.

The UI is very simple and clear and it integrates some nice features without complication or clutter (data detectors, the stationery).

For me Mail is a poster-child for what being a good OS X application is about.
[/URL]

Until about 2006, Mail was catastrophically broken. There were implementation decisions, not "bugs", that were both generally stupid (like deleting all remote data from a server when removing a profile) and horridly abusive of the IMAP protocol.

It's gotten much better in the last couple of years, to the point where I now find it usable (I'm a mail client dev myself, and have hacked on mail server software like Dovecot). It still has some stupidity, but at this point I'd probably call it the best of the Big Three (Outlook, Mail.app, Thunderbird) for IMAP. When I say that, I'm talking about both the interface, and minimizing the abuses of the protocol that manifest as user-noticeable performance degradation when the user does something perfectly acceptable.

They've made a conscious effort, with their devs becoming active in the mail community.

[daveslc]

Does it suck? Where?

Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe. Itunes has this feature, as does address book. Mail does not. Even in those programs it is not that great.
The search is not so good.
Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
It's slow.
There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
Oh, but it does nicely display html messages.

I use Eudora. (yeah, it is not up to date, but it's way more industrial strength.)

[Eidorian]

Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe. Itunes has this feature, as does address book. Mail does not. Even in those programs it is not that great.
The search is not so good.
Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
It's slow.
There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
Oh, but it does nicely display html messages.

I use Eudora. (yeah, it is not up to date, but it's way more industrial strength.)Are you on Tiger and are using LDAP for contacts? I haven't seen that address book issue in some time. Querying LDAP and the Directory Services can be a pain in the ass.

The search does seem to have gotten worse in Leopard. I was able to find mail in Tiger that I can barely do so in Leopard. The address copying "intelligence" is very, very annoying.

[CameronT]

Where are these 'suck every penny out of our customers' -rules coming from? Apple specific only? Enlighten me, someone.

No one can - I'm guessing one person posted this on some topic a few years ago - now everyone mimics it as an excuse.

It's not true.

[elppa]

Until about 2006, Mail was catastrophically broken. There were implementation decisions, not "bugs", that were both generally stupid (like deleting all remote data from a server when removing a profile) and horridly abusive of the IMAP protocol.

It's gotten much better in the last couple of years, to the point where I now find it usable (I'm a mail client dev myself, and have hacked on mail server software like Dovecot). It still has some stupidity, but at this point I'd probably call it the best of the Big Three (Outlook, Mail.app, Thunderbird) for IMAP. When I say that, I'm talking about both the interface, and minimizing the abuses of the protocol that manifest as user-noticeable performance degradation when the user does something perfectly acceptable.

They've made a conscious effort, with their devs becoming active in the mail community.


This is good to hear, but if it was so catastrophically broken, how come I have managed to use it to pick up and send email using multiple email accounts for many, many years.

If don't mind me asking as you are allowed to say, which mail client do you develop on?

Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
Relative to what? This could be determined by so many possible factors and will probably vary from user to user. I have around 4000 message across all inboxes (not a big sorter) and it the performance is fine. Slow compared to what?

You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe.
Yes you can, when sorted by subject.

The search is not so good.
In what way? Everything is indexed and fast. You can type things like to: from: and subject: to narrow your results

Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
If you paste it into a to field, CC field or BCC field you get the name and address.

There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
True, but that doesn't mean it sucks. This is a missing feature.

You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
Yes you can, you can bring up the activity monitor and click stop.

It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
But they will be hyperlinks when you view it in drafts and sent.

It's slow.
Again, slow compared to what?

There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
And you've barely named one.

For those criticising Mail, here's a “feature” in Windows Live Mail:

[1] If the Mail body hasn't loaded and you click on the subject (in the sidebar) then nothing happens.

[2] Once the message body is loaded, nothing happens.

The only way to see the body is to click on the message again.

Mail has handled this far better since forever. The body always shows up as soon as it has loaded.

[elppa]

Double post, mods please delete, thanks.

[diamond.g]

Relative to what? This could be determined by so many possible factors and will probably vary from user to user. I have around 4000 message across all inboxes (not a big sorter) and it the performance is fine. Slow compared to what?

Mine can be slow at times, but then again I have some 80,000+ emails (2 gmail accounts).

[*LTD*]

Mail.app works just fine. Nothing wrong with it.

[danny_w]

But they will be hyperlinks when you view it in drafts and sent.
Well it is about time that Apple finally did this. I just tried it and it works! Hooray! But I know that it has never worked before.

[jaw04005]

To be fair, I believe iCal is the one application Apple doesn't develop in-house. It's done by some company based in France, IIRC.

Nah. It's now done at Cupertino as of 10.5 Leopard. Although the history of iCal is interesting, leave it to Steve Jobs to keep a calendar app a secret away from the rest of Apple's productivity app teams.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/17/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ical_3_0.html&page=2

[cult hero]

So happy about the support for multi-touch gestures. It's a remarkable generous thing for Apple to do, wouldn't you agree?

Eh, one of the things I consistently DO NOT like about Apple is that they intentionally cripple their hardware from time to time. It's nice that they're adding this particular feature, but it also means it could have been extended to a larger number of machines when it came out.

It's good marketing. It's great marketing since it "adds value" to 10.6 for people with older machines but I'd hardly call a move designed to sell more units "generous."

What is obvious from this sort of move is that they're pushing the adoption of Snow Leopard much harder than any of the other point releases. They want the percentage of Macs running 10.6 to climb very fast.

[turkay]

- Expanded Multi-Touch Capabilities for Older Notebooks: Snow Leopard will bring 3- and 4-finger multi-touch gestures to multi-touch notebooks that currently do not support all available finger gestures. Examples of the gestures that will make their way to the older notebooks include swipe for Exposé and swipe for switching applications.

Is it gonna work with my white Macbook 2007? :confused:

[Sky Blue]

Is it gonna work with my white Macbook 2007? :confused:

No. As already mentioned in this thread, white MacBooks are not multi-touch notebooks.

[cult hero]

I know people will defend apple to death specially with the low price of 29 dollars. But overall snow leopard is a software update that is usally pushed for free.

While I already commented on the magical addition of multi-touch being added to older machines was a bit cheesy to be called "generous" I want to address this because I'm tired of hearing it and now that a feature list has been revealed, I'm even more sick of it.

10.6's changes are, to me, more impressive than than 10.5's hands down. Optimizing and performance updates are hard and take a lot of skill. I'm surprised they're releasing it so cheap. I would have paid full price it. Just because changes are made under the hood (and from what I saw, there were plenty that weren't) doesn't mean they have no value.

Grand Central, for instance, isn't something that should be free compared to say, Time Machine. I wish more companies would do this. I have some feeling the price tag is getting a lot of people to think this is inferior compared to Leopard - Tiger, but I think it has more to do with trying to push fast and early adoption.

[cult hero]

Will Apple Mail still suck?

I hope not. Generally I don't feel like I'm forced to "tolerate" anything on the Mac and while I've always liked the look and feel and Mail, since Tiger (since that's when I started) it's always been the app most likely to choke on something and refuse to recover gracefully from losing connections and things of that nature.

[danny_w]

I hope not. Generally I don't feel like I'm forced to "tolerate" anything on the Mac and while I've always liked the look and feel and Mail, since Tiger (since that's when I started) it's always been the app most likely to choke on something and refuse to recover gracefully from losing connections and things of that nature.
Agreed 100%. This is the only reason that I use Entourage for my work Outlook account (both at home (IMAP/OWA) and at work (ActiveSync/Exchange)). I use Mail.app for everything else, but it simply chokes on Outlook accounts. Hopefully the SL version will be better.

[tekio]

No. As already mentioned in this thread, white MacBooks are not multi-touch notebooks.

It's time apple did support it on older MB/MBP's.

[turkay]

No. As already mentioned in this thread, white MacBooks are not multi-touch notebooks.

Maybe (and hope) you are wrong, because the touchpad catches the third finger.

[tekio]

Maybe (and hope) you are wrong, because the touchpad catches the third finger.

The hardware does support multitouch, it's just apple refusing to release the needed software.

[calvin2006]

Does anyone with the beta know if the icon images load any faster in stacks in 10.6 than they do in 10.5? In my Documents stack in 10.5, it takes a while for all the icon previews to load even on a 2.4 iMac with 256 Video Card. I'm hoping performance is better in this feature in 10.6.

[Eidorian]

Does anyone with the beta know if the icon images load any faster in stacks in 10.6 than they do in 10.5? In my Documents stack in 10.5, it takes a while for all the icon previews to load even on a 2.4 iMac with 256 Video Card. I'm hoping performance is better in this feature in 10.6.Sounds more like a thumbnail caching issue more so than a GPU one.

[SydneyDev]

Another small refinement is that the weather widget now uses degrees C by default if those are the units in your country. In the past it always defaulted to degrees F and you had to change it.

[dragossh]

The hardware does support multitouch, it's just apple refusing to release the needed software.

Does it support gestures like pinch? If so, it means it’s indeed multitouch.

Anyway, there’s no reason for Apple to not implement things like 3-finger swipe for pre-2008 MacBooks. It’s certainly possible.

[jake.f]

Im considering a 13" uMBP.
I hope they decide to include an option which you can turn of that torturous chime that sounds on startup!!

[hamis92]

Could anyone test Snow Leopard on their pre-unibody MacBook or pre-Early-2008 MacBook Pro and confirm if there is multi-touch support or not? I might get a Mid 2007 MacBook Pro if it indeed had support for this...

[flopticalcube]

Im considering a 13" uMBP.
I hope they decide to include an option which you can turn of that torturous chime that sounds on startup!!

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/16425

[turkay]

Does it support gestures like pinch? If so, it means it’s indeed multitouch.

Anyway, there’s no reason for Apple to not implement things like 3-finger swipe for pre-2008 MacBooks. It’s certainly possible.

If i touch a third finger while scrolling with two fingers, scrolling stops and if i release the third one, scrolling continues. I guess this is a clue for multitouch capability.

(White Macbook, late 2007)

[elppa]

If i touch a third finger while scrolling with two fingers, scrolling stops and if i release the third one, scrolling continues. I guess this is a clue for multitouch capability.

(White Macbook, late 2007)

The two finger scrolling may also be a clue for multi-touch capability.

[Aron Peterson]

Mail.app works just fine. Nothing wrong with it.

I don't use it as I prefer Gmail in a browser but I should not have to configure Mail.app just to be able to browse my iPhone notes after syncing. I would prefer it if iPhone notes synced with Stickies instead.

[eleven7]

Random question:

Is it possible that we might still see a slightly upgraded UI in SL? Nothing major, but Quicktime X's black theme (http://images.appleinsider.com/quicktimexplayer090307-3.jpg) that we saw during the quicktime X demo in the keynote presentation looked pretty good to me.

Seems kinda strange to make release an integrated app with SL that has a different UI theme to the rest of the OS?

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I couldn't find it anywhere.

[veterator]

I hope they decide to include an option which you can turn of that torturous chime that sounds on startup!!

I personally don't mind the sound, however, I would like to be able to change it to a different sound. Is that even possible??

[nvbrit]

Does it support gestures like pinch? If so, it means it’s indeed multitouch.

Anyway, there’s no reason for Apple to not implement things like 3-finger swipe for pre-2008 MacBooks. It’s certainly possible.

Until someone has tested the feature on a pre-2008 Macbook or Macbook Pro, it's all speculation. I will actually have access to the Snow Leopard Developer preview tomorrow and plan on trying it on my July 2007 Macbook Pro, I'll post my findings

[nvbrit]

Could anyone test Snow Leopard on their pre-unibody MacBook or pre-Early-2008 MacBook Pro and confirm if there is multi-touch support or not? I might get a Mid 2007 MacBook Pro if it indeed had support for this...

I will be testing tomorrow on such a Macbook Pro, I'll let you know

[nvbrit]

I personally don't mind the sound, however, I would like to be able to change it to a different sound. Is that even possible??

I don't think the startup sound is part of the OS, I believe it runs before the OS starts to boot so it's in the hardware on your Mac, therefore you can't change it

[Ivan P]

I don't get why people want to disable the startup chime. I can see why it can be annoying (it's scared the **** out of me if I've left my volume up and turn on my Mac in the middle of the night, not to mention woken up my family, ha)...but it's there for a reason - it's supposed to tell you that your Mac has passed all the pre-boot tests and that the hardware should be capable of booting. Not hearing the chime is a legit cause of concern, it indicates that your computer is...well, messed up.

[turkay]

I don't get why people want to disable the startup chime. I can see why it can be annoying

Did you ever feel embarrassed of all the eyes upon you when a Macbook boots up in a silent library? Happily Macpilot solved this issue.

[dragossh]

Until someone has tested the feature on a pre-2008 Macbook or Macbook Pro, it's all speculation. I will actually have access to the Snow Leopard Developer preview tomorrow and plan on trying it on my July 2007 Macbook Pro, I'll post my findings

There are no multi-touch options on my White MacBook. That doesn’t mean they can’t include them in the final release. One thing is sure: the hardware is definitely capable of at least some multi-touch gestures.

[isepic]

Another small refinement is that the weather widget now uses degrees C by default if those are the units in your country. In the past it always defaulted to degrees F and you had to change it.

To add to this, you can now have a more local refinement when you first install (when it asks you to indicate your time zone, there are a lot more cities) - when you do this, that city auto populates now for the weather widget as well.

[Peace]

And as far as Marble. Nobody outside Apple's engineering lab has no idea if it will be in a final or future point release of SL.

[nvbrit]

I have tried the Developer Preview of Snow Leopard on a July 2007 Macbook Pro and there is no multi-touch beyond the normal 2 finger scrolling, however there is also no expose from dock, and none of the other new features of expose that organize the windows better.. so it seems that not all features are final in this version.

On the plus side, Quicktime X is very cool, works fast and smooth. The system overall is very responsive and seems much faster for most tasks. Interesting that Safari 4 runs much faster on Snow Leopard than on Leopard, thus internet surfing especially on media intensive sites appears to be much faster.

Quicklook is much faster as was promised, the new icon previews and the ability to watch movies and PDFs right from their icon is very cool, and the slider for quickly enlarging/shrinking the thumbnails in finder works fast and smooth and you can blow the thumbnails up to gigantic sizes!

There's still some features like the new iChat that i haven't looked at yet, so I'll post more once i have if anyone is interested.

[jav6454]

Did you ever feel embarrassed of all the eyes upon you when a Macbook boots up in a silent library? Happily Macpilot solved this issue.

Or you just silence your speakers before turning your Mac off. At start-up no sound. Ain't that magical?

[turkay]

Or you just silence your speakers before turning your Mac off. At start-up no sound. Ain't that magical?

Or you just click an option and don't worry about it anymore. Ain't that magical?

[nvbrit]

Or you just silence your speakers before turning your Mac off. At start-up no sound. Ain't that magical?

i don't think that's correct, i have rebooted many times with my speakers muted... the startup sound is independent of the OS so it doesn't matter if your speakers are muted or not

[yoppie]

i don't think that's correct, i have rebooted many times with my speakers muted... the startup sound is independent of the OS so it doesn't matter if your speakers are muted or not

That's weird. I keep my speakers on muted a lot (college student) and I never hear the startup sound unless I unmute the speakers but I also like the option of checking it off (I wasn't aware of it before).

[turkay]

i don't think that's correct, i have rebooted many times with my speakers muted... the startup sound is independent of the OS so it doesn't matter if your speakers are muted or not

Yes, i worked like that for a while but it was super unreliable. This is why i searched the net and found Macpilot. BTW it does waaaaay more than that.

@all_the_people_that_shuts_the_volume_down_at_every_power_off

Don't get me wrong, i don't like the idea of 3rd party solutions, but hey face it, this is something really wrong, irritating and non-professional that no option to turn the startup sound off. Come on!