15" MacBook Pro Battery Tests: "Eight, freakin, hours"

[CanadianMac2008]

Well, as someone that has frequented the Genius Bar - I can assure you that you cannot get anything done - not even a memory upgrade - in 1 to 2 hours - at least not at the Apple Stores in Dallas/Ft. Worth (3 of them). It took 4 DAYS to get my defective HDD replaced. Now something soldered into the unit - I wonder in a poll how many of them know what a soldering iron is ;)

Well nothing in life is perfect. I've been too a few Apple stores now and had great experiences. My frequent one, the Apple store Eatons Centre, is pretty awesome. I brought by Gf's MacBook in for a ram upgrade to 4GB and it was done within an hour after some paperwork and double checking to make sure they had the right kind. I also had an issue where something got messed up in the system and they fixed it within a pretty short period of time (that day). I'm very impressed with Apple's level of customer service.

[Unprocessed1]

When my battery meter turns red I have exactly 1 hour of charge left. :) That's pretty darn good. Full brightness 75% of the time too.

[turkay]

I'm very impressed with Apple's level of customer service.

Ditto, never had a problem with them. Here in Istanbul they give an excellent support.

[turkay]

When my battery meter turns red I have exactly 1 hour of charge left. :) That's pretty darn good. Full brightness 75% of the time too.

Well, the indicator turns red when the battery goes below 15%, right? If so a simple math revelas that you get 100/15=6,6 hours at total.

[farmboy]

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

You mean "some" user like how simple it is--most laptop users don't have a spare battery and don't miss it, or else the sales would be enormous. And are you worried about not having a few minutes free time 5 years from now?

[Konstanty]

I can't imagine it taking more than 10 minutes for someone with a lot of a practice doing it. "A few days" would only be if the tech/Genius couldn't get to it right away, ie they had a que of machines to be worked on.

Fine and dandy if you live near an Apple store. I don't.

[Nugget]

Fine and dandy if you live near an Apple store. I don't.

Ten screws stand in between you and replacing the battery yourself. Do you live near a screwdriver?

[o9ski]

Things I have learnt about batteries on any consumer equipment:

1. No-one's idea of "real world scenario" seems to match mine, because I never get as many hours as salesmen or reviewers do out of new machines.

2. All claimed reports on capacity loss are wrong, and need to be cut by about a quarter unless the battery is left outside of the machine in a cool, dry environment.

3. When batteries start going wrong - e.g. bulging, leaking, etc. - you want to take them out now. Possibly even yesterday, or last week. And it's imperative to have visual clues that this'll happen, otherwise you will (at best) ruin your hardware.

4. There's always room for a spare battery. There's not always a spare power outlet and adapter.

5. Batteries are cheaper and manufactured by third parties for longer when they are easily replaceable. I can still get batteries for 6-8 year old laptops that I or my colleagues/family/friends use.

6. I take better care of my hardware than anyone else, and I am also available to me wherever and whenever I am, so battery replacements are most conveniently done by me.

7. I also take better care of my private data than anyone else, and I'm not going to waste my time removing my hard drive just so someone else can replace my battery. Even if there were a convenient audited full-disk encryption solution for OS X, it doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the principle of multiple layers of defense - where one important layer is "don't give your machine to anyone else unless unavoidable".

What's going to happen in 2-3 years' time is what happens with every other new battery tech that's ever been divined: heavy or (as yet undefined, since it depends on the tech) atypical users will find their batteries mostly dead. Light users or those who buy a new machine every month will claim correctly that it doesn't affect them.

I can just about stomach getting a low end iPod with a hard-to-replace battery. A laptop, or even a phone? For all the reasons above, never.


+1

[o9ski]

Makes me wonder when we'll see a 12+hr battery. :eek:

When you start seeing actual 6 h.
You could tell it's rated at 12h.

[jay-t]

recharging up to 1000 times until the capacity reaches about 80% is nice. however, my current macbook pro (january 2009) has now 197 cycles and still a battery health of 97%!!

I think that apple became very conservative about this figures.

[512ke]

I bought my 15: MBP in Feb. Everything about it is great except the battery life. It's not terrible by any means but it would be soooo nice to plug the thing in only once a day. Sigh. I still love my 'puter.

512ke

[parapup]

recharging up to 1000 times until the capacity reaches about 80% is nice. however, my current macbook pro (january 2009) has now 197 cycles and still a battery health of 97%!!

I think that apple became very conservative about this figures.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176123&stc=1&d=1245087286

Lies, damn lies and :apple: claims! I sure hope this time the 1000 times 80% claim is at least a tad bit more consistent.

[JGowan]

I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous.

I can't imagine it taking more than 10 minutes for someone with a lot of a practice doing it. "A few days" would only be if the tech/Genius couldn't get to it right away, ie they had a que of machines to be worked on."A few days"…please. That person didn't no better or was covering Apple's ass. If you had a Genius appointment, they look at it longer than 10 minutes and that's to actually try to determine problems. If it's a battery replacement, there's no "looking it over" to do. They just do the battery swap. Most likely, they'll will train any number of their other minor employees to do simply battery swaps.

In 3-5 years when this is actually an issue, when you set up your appointment, they're will most likely be a box to check for battery replacements. If you CHECK the box, there will most likely be a set of instructions that dynamically pop into place, giving you options of the selecting the type of machine you have so that Apple will be more prepared for you when you come in.

I don't really know why the FUD/Worry there is over issue that, for the next few years, is about as moot as things get.

[turkay]

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176123&stc=1&d=1245087286

Lies, damn lies and :apple: claims! I sure hope this time the 1000 times 80% claim is at least a tad bit more consistent.

Where do you get those numbers from?

[yliu]

My 15 inch MacBook Pro 2.53Ghz unibody only last for 2 hours, while it says it can last for 5 hours

[parapup]

Where do you get those numbers from?

You mean the image I posted (that is from iStat Pro dashboard widget - google) or the Apple claims of 1000 recharges (those are here - http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/ )

[windywoo]

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176123&stc=1&d=1245087286

Lies, damn lies and :apple: claims! I sure hope this time the 1000 times 80% claim is at least a tad bit more consistent.

Can someone tell me what this little doo dah is and if it will work on an iBook G4.

[flopticalcube]

Can someone tell me what this little doo dah is and if it will work on an iBook G4.
iStat Pro: http://www.islayer.com/apps/istatpro/

[turkay]

Well, i have a white Macbook and here is the istat pro's output.

[windywoo]

iStat Pro: http://www.islayer.com/apps/istatpro/

Woot 100% health after 177 cycles.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Woot 100% health after 177 cycles.

I wouldn't believe that. My last black Macbook had over four hundred cycles on it and iStat and Coconut both said it had 99% battery health. I even calibrated it. Although I won't complain about it's life, even after over four hundred cycles I was still getting two and a half hours out of the battery.

[jay-t]

as TuffLuffJimmy already said, another good way to measure battery health is the app coconutbattery. I´d say that this one is even more accurate.

[brop52]

Coconut battery and iStat are great applications, however Apple will not allow screenshots of those apps to be eligible for a new battery replacement for free. You need a screenshot of Apple System Profiler. (This will help people that have intermittent drops in battery health that seem to magically improve when you get to the Apple Store).

[turkay]

I wouldn't believe that. My last black Macbook had over four hundred cycles on it and iStat and Coconut both said it had 99% battery health. I even calibrated it. Although I won't complain about it's life, even after over four hundred cycles I was still getting two and a half hours out of the battery.

Well, mine has 191 charge cycles and it is healty 100% as a toddler. :cool:

[windywoo]

Age of my Mac: 24464 months!

[turkay]

Age of my Mac: 24464 months!

Wow, almost 30 years older than Jesus. You have a treasure man! :)

[windywoo]

Currently I think the battery lasts between 3 and 4 hours, but I haven't timed it.

[aaquib]

91 cycles, 94% health on my 2 month old MBA :(

[eVolcre]

Well, mine has 191 charge cycles and it is healty 100% as a toddler. :cool:

Wow. I have a 2006 2.16 MBP17. There was a known battery issue and they replaced it right around March '07.

iStat shows health 482 cycles with a health of 65% :( Barely get 1:30 on light usage and 1:00 if there's a movie running. It's pretty much tethered to a power outlet. One of the reasons I'm considering a MBP13 so I can be 'portable' again

eV

[Ja Di ksw]

So, if Nehalem is suppose to be so great on power consumption, any guesses how long the battery life will be on a laptop with these new batteries & Nehalem?

I still can't believe I'm hesitating to get a new computer while I sit and type on a 1.5 GHz G4 :D. This thing stutters when it plays youtube videos half the time!

[AidenShaw]

It's pretty much tethered to a power outlet. One of the reasons I'm considering a MBP13 so I can be 'portable' again.

A new battery would be a much cheaper way to get 'portable' ;)

[JAT]

Wow. I have a 2006 2.16 MBP17. There was a known battery issue and they replaced it right around March '07.

iStat shows health 482 cycles with a health of 65% :( Barely get 1:30 on light usage and 1:00 if there's a movie running. It's pretty much tethered to a power outlet. One of the reasons I'm considering a MBP13 so I can be 'portable' again

eV

Have you tried Apple's conditioning method? Even Lithium batteries need some care. Not as bad as NiCad. If you want the ultimate in bad battery stories, I can show y'all my PB 165c. I've got 3 batteries for that classic laptop. Current health would have to be described thus: I have to plug the 165c in for a couple hours before trying to turn it on. Otherwise there isn't enough power built up to run on AC. Running on battery no longer possible, maybe long enough to boot 25%. (for those unfamiliar, the 165c was the first color laptop, 1991 or so)


There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in this thread. Most of the "problems" that are mentioned are simply how batteries work. Other than the removable/nonremovable issue, obviously. So, if you don't like it, maybe you should do some research to understand batteries better, at least read Wikipedia for the basics. Or just get a desktop computer.

Lithium-Polymer is a lighter, cheaper, more powerful version of Lithium battery tech than the more common Lithium-Ion. (which basically means it runs even closer to red-line than Li-Ion) That's just standard tech facts, I'm not sure why some aren't trusting that it will last longer, given the same or slightly larger battery size in the new MBP. The excellent software control Apple is claiming is almost necessary just to use LiPo at all, so that's good they have it under control. You wouldn't want a new rash of laptops catching fire. That's been the reason it hasn't caught on quite as fast as the "lighter, cheaper, more powerful" might suggest.

Also, "1000 charges" is the standard industry life expectancy stated for both kinds of lithium batteries. And I mean the battery industry, not laptop. But this isn't a hard and fast rule. It's more like a generalized statement. So is the "500 charges to 80%" expectancy. And it really only applies to full charge cycles, the life expectancy if you have partial charge cycles is basically unpredictable. Which, of course, you will have. (think about: iPod/phone with constant charging in dock or car)

An interesting question to me would be: Who actually makes these LiPo batteries for Apple? Many of us no doubt remember the year of battery horror when Sony's OEM batteries were recalled from virtually every laptop manufacturer, including Apple. What was that, 2005? So, is Sony still making their batteries?

[turkay]

A new battery would be a much cheaper way to get 'portable' ;)

Yes, absolutely. I can't understand why people wants pay more while fixing is a lot cheaper.

[pjo]

My only concern with the new MBPs would be having to send it away to replace the battery under warranty.

Well, iFixit and others may stock batteries and the battery is only 12 screws away - but I have no idea about warranty given that you may have to remove one of their warranty stickers to replace your battery.

[nictan]

anyone knows why when i plug in my charger, the charge on istat and coconutbattery shows only 98-99%? its only 2 weeks old and i just calibrated the battery. health is 100% so how can my charge be only 99% when it plugged it!!?!?!? any explanation? thanks :)

[AidenShaw]

anyone knows why when i plug in my charger, the charge on istat and coconutbattery shows only 98-99%? its only 2 weeks old and i just calibrated the battery. health is 100% so how can my charge be only 99% when it plugged it!!?!?!? any explanation? thanks :)

Run the battery down to 50% to 75%, and try to charge?

Some laptops won't charge if the battery is above a certain threshold - it wastes a "charge cycle" and the battery is almost full anyway. My ThinkPad has a setting in the battery to adjust this threshold - around 85% is the default I think.

[brop52]

anyone knows why when i plug in my charger, the charge on istat and coconutbattery shows only 98-99%? its only 2 weeks old and i just calibrated the battery. health is 100% so how can my charge be only 99% when it plugged it!!?!?!? any explanation? thanks :)

That's normal. It stops charging between 95-100%. If you want to give it a jolt reset the SMC. How you do that depends on which computer you have. The new ones you do this:

Shut down, hold down shift-control-option and the power button once, wait five seconds and then start up.

[YaddaMinski]

it all depends on the work load too. Keep in mind all the factors that can change that.... most people don't use their computers for "light" workloads... i would still expect an average of 6-7 hours on it... which kicks other computers butts that are still stuck at the 2-3 hour range.

Also remember that distance from the WiFi access point and interference issues will affect battery life.

[YaddaMinski]

Have you tried Apple's conditioning method? Even Lithium batteries need some care. Not as bad as NiCad. If you want the ultimate in bad battery stories, I can show y'all my PB 165c. I've got 3 batteries for that classic laptop. Current health would have to be described thus: I have to plug the 165c in for a couple hours before trying to turn it on. Otherwise there isn't enough power built up to run on AC. Running on battery no longer possible, maybe long enough to boot 25%. (for those unfamiliar, the 165c was the first color laptop, 1991 or so)


There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in this thread. Most of the "problems" that are mentioned are simply how batteries work. Other than the removable/nonremovable issue, obviously. So, if you don't like it, maybe you should do some research to understand batteries better, at least read Wikipedia for the basics. Or just get a desktop computer.

Lithium-Polymer is a lighter, cheaper, more powerful version of Lithium battery tech than the more common Lithium-Ion. (which basically means it runs even closer to red-line than Li-Ion) That's just standard tech facts, I'm not sure why some aren't trusting that it will last longer, given the same or slightly larger battery size in the new MBP. The excellent software control Apple is claiming is almost necessary just to use LiPo at all, so that's good they have it under control. You wouldn't want a new rash of laptops catching fire. That's been the reason it hasn't caught on quite as fast as the "lighter, cheaper, more powerful" might suggest.

Also, "1000 charges" is the standard industry life expectancy stated for both kinds of lithium batteries. And I mean the battery industry, not laptop. But this isn't a hard and fast rule. It's more like a generalized statement. So is the "500 charges to 80%" expectancy. And it really only applies to full charge cycles, the life expectancy if you have partial charge cycles is basically unpredictable. Which, of course, you will have. (think about: iPod/phone with constant charging in dock or car)

An interesting question to me would be: Who actually makes these LiPo batteries for Apple? Many of us no doubt remember the year of battery horror when Sony's OEM batteries were recalled from virtually every laptop manufacturer, including Apple. What was that, 2005? So, is Sony still making their batteries?

Do not use laptop on ac power with the lithium battery installed. The high temperatures on ac power are the main reason a lithium battery will wear out quickly. So either run you laptop on battery when it is charged or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time. Batteries are chemistry so respect the laws of nature: no free lunch.

[brop52]

Do not use laptop on ac power with the lithium battery installed. The high temperatures on ac power are the main reason a lithium battery will wear out quickly. So either run you laptop on battery when it is charged or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time. Batteries are chemistry so respect the laws of nature: no free lunch.

You don't know what you are talking about. Removing the battery downclocks the CPU. Running off battery all the time prematurely degrades the battery as it has a limited number of cycles in its lifespan. The recommendation is to use 2-3 cycles a week and fully calibrate every 2-3 months.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Also remember that distance from the WiFi access point and interference issues will affect battery life.

Do not use laptop on ac power with the lithium battery installed. The high temperatures on ac power are the main reason a lithium battery will wear out quickly. So either run you laptop on battery when it is charged or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time. Batteries are chemistry so respect the laws of nature: no free lunch.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

[brop52]

Is this supposed to be a joke?

I'm doubting they were joking.:rolleyes:

[AidenShaw]

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Something is a joke, anyway....

....or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time.

Apple has made it rather difficult to "remove the battery" in the new models ;)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Something is a joke, anyway....

....or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time.

Apple has made it rather difficult to "remove the battery" in the new models ;)

That part and the wifi part confused me.

OMG! I picked up a copy of Butt and I read an article about Aiden Shaw. I couldn't recall where I had previously read that name until now. Crazy!

[YaddaMinski]

You don't know what you are talking about. Removing the battery downclocks the CPU. Running off battery all the time prematurely degrades the battery as it has a limited number of cycles in its lifespan. The recommendation is to use 2-3 cycles a week and fully calibrate every 2-3 months.

See http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm then scroll down to Figure 1.

[YaddaMinski]

Something is a joke, anyway....

....or remove the battery when on ac power for extended periods of time.

Apple has made it rather difficult to "remove the battery" in the new models ;)


Put my post in the context of the one I was replying to please. As such, I was speaking in generalities. Use a little logic...if you have a new MacBook Pro and don't want to burn the battery out quickly, do not run on mains power while battery is near 100% charge for long periods of time.

[brop52]

Sure generalities that are not reasonable measures to take for a vast majority of notebook users. It's obvious that heat degrades battery capacity, but that's kind of the point of the battery. Sure you could keep it in the freezer, but that defeats the purpose of a notebook. The figure 1 is great, but it's showing the loss of capacity after a year of being stored at certain temperatures. Batteries lose charge either way when not charged for long periods of time. It's a theoretical and I'm not keeping my battery in the freezer.

[YaddaMinski]

Sure generalities that are not reasonable measures to take for a vast majority of notebook users. It's obvious that heat degrades battery capacity, but that's kind of the point of the battery. Sure you could keep it in the freezer, but that defeats the purpose of a notebook. The figure 1 is great, but it's showing the loss of capacity after a year of being stored at certain temperatures. Batteries lose charge either way when not charged for long periods of time. It's a theoretical and I'm not keeping my battery in the freezer.

Where did I say keep your battery in the freezer? The advice is to not run on ac mains power for long periods of time when the battery is near 100% charge. Simple. If you disagree, so be it. Be happy paying Apple for a battery replacement sooner than you would have to. Its your money.

[YaddaMinski]

anyone knows why when i plug in my charger, the charge on istat and coconutbattery shows only 98-99%? its only 2 weeks old and i just calibrated the battery. health is 100% so how can my charge be only 99% when it plugged it!!?!?!? any explanation? thanks :)

It takes a lot longer to charge that last bit (the top off) due to the chemistry resistance. Maybe that is what you are experiencing. If you can't get the green light on the mag-safe to go on after charging with the computer off overnight, try the recalibration procedure.

[brop52]

Where did I say keep your battery in the freezer? The advice is to not run on ac mains power for long periods of time when the battery is near 100% charge. Simple. If you disagree, so be it. Be happy paying Apple for a battery replacement sooner than you would have to. Its your money.

You said to take the battery out while using the AC adapter. I like to keep my CPU functionality and not worry about unplugging it and losing all the work. It is also well known that for people who use the computer for long periods of time that if they continuously cycle the battery without letting it sit charge it is going to die an early death. This is what I did with my first battery for this computer and it died in 3 months. Obviously it was probably a fluke, but it is an example. Batteries have limited lifespan in terms of cycles. If you are on the computer all the time you don't want to cycle it too much or you'll cut that battery lifespan short.

As for paying Apple, the battery is going to last three years or less no matter how you slice it in most cases. On one extreme you have the continuous cycling, which for someone who is on the notebook all the time is a possibility. For those individuals, it is probably better to keep it charging most of the time and make sure to have an average of about 2-3 cycles per week. So perhaps the battery might get a little warm. This sounds like a reasonable number to me or are you suggesting a full cycle every day? If the battery keeps 80% of the charge for 300 cycles, you hit that in one year. After two years, lets just say that slope turns downward pretty quickly. I'm not saying one extreme is better than another, but I'm saying taking out the battery is obsessive which is what you were suggesting originally.

[YaddaMinski]

You said to take the battery out while using the AC adapter. I like to keep my CPU functionality and not worry about unplugging it and losing all the work. It is also well known that for people who use the computer for long periods of time that if they continuously cycle the battery without letting it sit charge it is going to die an early death. This is what I did with my first battery for this computer and it died in 3 months. Obviously it was probably a fluke, but it is an example. Batteries have limited lifespan in terms of cycles. If you are on the computer all the time you don't want to cycle it too much or you'll cut that battery lifespan short.

I am not encouraging constant charging. I do not recharge until I hit 15-20% usually. I do a complete discharge about once per month. For those that want convenience, buy a laptop cooling pad which will keep the battery at friendly temperature when on ac mains power. I personally do not remove my battery on my Mac Book, but my battery still has 100% health after 1.5 years. I use my Mac Book about 2-3 hours per day on average. If I were using more like a desktop, I would remove the battery. And considering incentives, it does make sense for Apple to be very "conservative" on the battery advice as it makes money when you need a new one or just buy a new laptop :)

[giorfa]

I just got my new MBP 13 and the first 2-3 cycles of battery didn't last 8hrs for sure, but 2 or 3 hrs. Should I wait a bit or contact the apple support?
Anyone else has the same issue?

[nictan]

it was never meant to last 8 hours. 8 hours is when you are doing low-end work. it might be possible. i have the new 13'' MBP too and after a full charge, when im not doing anything, the clock shows 7+ hours. but the moment i start using safari or itunes and ****, it drops to 3-4 hours. goes down even more when watching youtube. so battery life really depends on what you're doing.

as for your question on waiting or calling up apple, i dont think theres a need to for either. hope ive helped. :)

and since its new, it would be best to do the calibration process once, which was what i did, before using. in fact i did it twice, the second time was unintentional, as i wasnt near a power socket when i exhausted the battery

[iAlexG]

I got mine to last for 7hrs!!!! Thunderstorm all-night!! So I surfed the net for a few hours then watched a movie and some Friends:D

[nictan]

I got mine to last for 7hrs!!!! Thunderstorm all-night!! So I surfed the net for a few hours then watched a movie and some Friends:D

13'' or 15'' or 17''?????

how do you get it on the internet plus a movie and a tv series for 7 hours???

damn i wish my 13'' could reach that

[eVolcre]

17" here. I charged it out of the box and it took 27 minutes to turn green from amber.

I've been setting it up with brightness at full, wifi on, display sleep and dim off. 2 reinstalls of OSX, one install of iLife, browsing between installs for research. Some playing around with System Prefs.

I've been going for 3:10 with another :59 to go. Simply amazing! I'm sure I could get between 6 and 7 with usable settings and browsing/iTunes/Pages

eV

[Wikinerd]

Apple should offer an external battery pack, or license the magsafe connector to APC or another company that makes external batteries.

That would solve the problem with airplanes or other situations where one is away from power for more than the capacity of the one internal battery.

+1

But if there is enough demand I'm sure someone would do it.


Regardless, an external battery might be slightly troublesome when dealing with Airport security..

[AidenShaw]

Regardless, an external battery might be slightly troublesome when dealing with Airport security..

Never had an issue with spare batteries and externals. Don't buy a really big external, though, the limit is around 300 wh. http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html

[dnguyen]

that is so long, i'm jealous

[eVolcre]

that is so long, i'm jealous

Watch late night infomercials, there's products that can help


:D:D

eV