15" MacBook Pro Battery Tests: "Eight, freakin, hours" [Archive]

MacRumors

Jun 13, 2009, 02:12 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/13/15-macbook-pro-battery-tests-eight-freakin-hours/)

AnandTech takes a look (http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580&p=1) at the new MacBook Pros released at WWDC last week and focuses on the new non-removable battery design. Apple first introduced the non-removable battery into the 17" Unibody MacBook Pro last fall with mixed reactions from the community. Apple's reasoning behind making the battery custom and non-removable has been the ability to incorporate a larger battery that will provide even longer battery life. They've also argued that most laptop owners do not carry spare batteries.

Anandtech does a good job exploring the technology behind the design:Apple did some clever work on its own here. Standard lithium ion batteries are made up of cylindrical cells, similar to AA batteries. The problem with these batteries is that they waste a lot of space within a notebook (try cramming a lot of cylinders into a box, you end up with wasted space). This wasted space translates into larger batteries than are necessary, which makes for larger notebooks.They found the 15" MacBook Pro got an additional 46% of battery capacity with no additional weight. Improvements were dramatic in their benchmark testing:

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/06/13/140846-19441.png

The new 15" MacBook Pro clocked in at over 8 hours in their light load benchmark. The findings did carry over proportionately in their more intensive tests compared to the older models. Andandtech concludes with a very positive impression of Apple's latest revision:Ever since I first looked at the power consumption specs of Nehalem I thought it didn’t make any sense to buy a new, expensive notebook before Arrandale’s launch in Q4 2009/Q1 2010. While performance will definitely increase considerably with Arrandale, Apple just threw a huge wrench in my recommendation. The new MacBook Pro is near perfect today. If you need a new laptop now, thanks to its incredible battery life, I have no qualms recommending the new MBP.

Article Link: 15" MacBook Pro Battery Tests: "Eight, freakin, hours" (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/13/15-macbook-pro-battery-tests-eight-freakin-hours/)

dukebound85

Jun 13, 2009, 02:14 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

iGary

Jun 13, 2009, 02:15 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

The replacement service is the same price of a new battery today, IIRC.

noodle654

Jun 13, 2009, 02:16 PM

Wow...I just love how far we have come...seeing my 2.2GHz at the bottom makes me feel left out :(.

Mr. B

Jun 13, 2009, 02:17 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

these batteries need to be replaced much less than previous generations according to apple

And when you do need to I'm sure there will be plenty of easy to follow guides online.

Bubba Satori

Jun 13, 2009, 02:18 PM

Extremely impressive. Kudos Apple. :apple:

Kilamite

Jun 13, 2009, 02:19 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

The batteries will last 3-5 years before decay in charge. Within that time, you'd be looking to upgrade anyway. And for the casual user, 5 years was Apple's calculation.

dukebound85

Jun 13, 2009, 02:20 PM

The replacement service is the same price of a new battery today, IIRC.

i didnt know that. in that case im all for this unremovable battery

Wow...I just love how far we have come...seeing my 2.2GHz at the bottom makes me feel left out :(.

lol me too by having a coreduo

queshy

Jun 13, 2009, 02:21 PM

When will we see a MBA with that long battery life? The AIr is already mostly all battery :(

Carl Abudephane

Jun 13, 2009, 02:21 PM

syklee26

Jun 13, 2009, 02:22 PM

I never understood all the outrage against built-in battery. Do people live in amazon or something? just find a damn wall and plug it in!

If Apple's promise of 1000 charges before suffering a slow painful death is true, then find ways to plug it into the wall and you can use the laptop for over 5-6 years without any problem.

I myself would have loved to have a built in battery in my current unibody MBP but I missed it by that much.

Jawsome

Jun 13, 2009, 02:24 PM

The replacement service is the same price of a new battery today, IIRC.

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

dukebound85

Jun 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

Michael.Dribins

Jun 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

I have the late 2008 2.8 MacBook Pro , can you change the battery in it for the new one?

slicecom

Jun 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

I for one, am a huge fan of the built in battery. Kudos Apple! Very impressive numbers. :D

iMacmatician

Jun 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

Wow. Amazing.

I wish I had the new MacBook Pro (I have the previous generation). But I'm still happy with my MBP.

Jacksteruk309

Jun 13, 2009, 02:28 PM

Paix247

Jun 13, 2009, 02:28 PM

Mine was delivered this morning and I've been surfing for HOURS! Way to go Apple!!! :apple::apple::apple: :D

Edit; Didn't realize the SATA speed until now... my Early 2008 MBP was the same, so no loss. Plus this one scored more than 400 above my previous 2.4GHz on geekbench.

gmcalpin

Jun 13, 2009, 02:29 PM

I have the late 2008 2.8 MacBook Pro , can you change the battery in it for the new one?
No.

acearchie

Jun 13, 2009, 02:32 PM

Hmm Don't see my powerbook g4 with 9 minutes battery life on that list!

There is no point buying a new battery for me as a new one is half the value of the machine!

J the Ninja

Jun 13, 2009, 02:33 PM

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

I can't imagine it taking more than 10 minutes for someone with a lot of a practice doing it. "A few days" would only be if the tech/Genius couldn't get to it right away, ie they had a que of machines to be worked on.

slowpoke

Jun 13, 2009, 02:37 PM

I'm happy with my '07 2.4's battery - mainly because when it goes into standby I know it's time to hit the hay for the evening...

Bye Bye Baby

Jun 13, 2009, 02:38 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

I must confess that I have a Powerbook from 2003 and it does need a new battery, I am also in the market for a new laptop.

I don't think that the battery is an issue for me.

I am however, just expressing my own user needs.

eastercat

Jun 13, 2009, 02:38 PM

Lucky for me the 15" doesn't have a matte option. Otherwise, I'd be lusting after this computer. :)

shakenmartini

Jun 13, 2009, 02:44 PM

The replacement service is the same price of a new battery today, IIRC.

This is true. For both PC and Mac, new batteries usually run $80-250 depending on many factors.

$130 for a new battery installed is very reasonable and a nice compromise. I'll take 8h of battery life and only have to take the computer in for a new battery once every 3-5 years.

In fact, I buy a new laptop every 2 years or less, so lately I have barely broken the battery in before replacing the machine and selling the old.

paola105

Jun 13, 2009, 02:44 PM

Great, I feel outdated now... :(

niuniu

Jun 13, 2009, 02:46 PM

Man, feel bad for the 2006 model :D

freddiecable

Jun 13, 2009, 02:47 PM

i wonder how the 13" performs...

Santa Rosa

Jun 13, 2009, 02:48 PM

Put a matte screen on the Unibody and I would just about be sold. Some serious saving for 8GB RAM and the 256 GB SSD would be me sorted for a good while I would think. :)

DeusInvictus7

Jun 13, 2009, 02:50 PM

i wonder how the 13" performs...

Well from the article, the battery is 30% larger in capacity than the original UMB. Seeing as Anand said for the 15" (46% larger capacity) he expected it to be at least 46% more battery life, which was proven true. So I would expect the 13" to at least have 30% more life, which puts it up to 6.5 hours.

Apple Corps

Jun 13, 2009, 02:51 PM

Great, I feel outdated now... :(

...and becoming more so every day ;) ;)

Stevamundo

Jun 13, 2009, 02:51 PM

Wow...I just love how far we have come...seeing my 2.2GHz at the bottom makes me feel left out :(.

Yeah really! :(

However the future looks bright with even more improvements.

Carl Abudephane

Jun 13, 2009, 02:53 PM

Christ, this is only a factor if you use a ssd.....which most people do not. If you want to complain about that issue, theres a 20 page thread already on it

As I understand it, using a SATA connection with either a HD or SSD uses less juice period. If I am completely mistaken here then fine, shoot me down in flames, that's fair enough. As of right now though, the new 13" and the new 15"(all models)have the 1.5 Gbit connection. They both have this great new battery life.
The Air by the way, still has a SATA II connection, and doesn't have a wonderful 'new' battery life. The 17"(even though it's larger)primarily has it's extended battery life because it's battery is huge.
Anybody got even a hint of an idea why they've done this? And yes, I have contributed to that other thread, and there's lots of folks there who know far more than I, who do actually consider it very feasible that this move is what's enabled them to achieve these new figures.
Just how large do you think the battery is in this new 13" for example? That manages to get over seven hours as well; I should know 'cause I bought one, and returned it today.

Are you sure the new MBPs are SATA and not SATA 2?
I don't see why they would go back a generation.

Yes, I'm sure. I took my 13" back today and whilst there, checked them. The 15" are 1.5 Gbit.
Yet the white MacBook and the Mini are both SATA II. But hey Dukebound, you're never gonna put an SSD in there, so no problem yeah? Thumbs up for Apple then :confused:

kappaknight

Jun 13, 2009, 02:53 PM

I have one of the newer Unibody MBP's and there is no way I get 5+ hours with my battery. Maybe 3 hours at best... so does 8 hours REALLY mean 4.25 hours?

casik

Jun 13, 2009, 02:56 PM

I have one of the newer Unibody MBP's and there is no way I get 5+ hours with my battery. Maybe 3 hours at best... so does 8 hours REALLY mean 4.25 hours?

it all depends on the work load too. Keep in mind all the factors that can change that.... most people don't use their computers for "light" workloads... i would still expect an average of 6-7 hours on it... which kicks other computers butts that are still stuck at the 2-3 hour range.

tekmoe

Jun 13, 2009, 02:59 PM

Quit crying about the built-in batteries. They are easy enough to replace. You don't *have* to take it to the Apple store to get it replaced. :rolleyes:

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 03:00 PM

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person
They have to to this every 3-5 years, ie, probably never more than once during their ownership of the computer. Once, at most. I'll upgrade my internal harddrive more often than buying a new battery.

masse

Jun 13, 2009, 03:00 PM

fungus

Jun 13, 2009, 03:01 PM

While the SATA I / SATA II issue may very well have something to do with the new battery life stats, please check it out here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=718516 to read (or post) more about it.

BlizzardBomb

Jun 13, 2009, 03:04 PM

Well from the article, the battery is 30% larger in capacity than the original UMB. Seeing as Anand said for the 15" (46% larger capacity) he expected it to be at least 46% more battery life, which was proven true. So I would expect the 13" to at least have 30% more life, which puts it up to 6.5 hours.

Well on the wireless test, it lasted about 60% more and on the flash it lasted almost 100% longer for a 46% increase. This makes me think the 13" MBP will be about 40% better for 30% more battery life under a light load, so 7 hours should be spot on.

This new battery tech is a great leap forward though. Hopefully as CPUs and GPUs get more efficient and SSDs and OLEDs go mainstream, we'll start hitting 10 hours no problem.

I have one of the newer Unibody MBP's and there is no way I get 5+ hours with my battery. Maybe 3 hours at best... so does 8 hours REALLY mean 4.25 hours?

Did you calibrate the battery? Have you got a 7200rpm Hard Drive, using screen at high brightness, lots of peripherals attached etc...

neiltc13

Jun 13, 2009, 03:05 PM

These numbers are clearly flawed - I have never seen anywhere close to 5 hours from my 2008 MacBook.

flopticalcube

Jun 13, 2009, 03:06 PM

These numbers are clearly flawed - I have never seen anywhere close to 5 hours from my 2008 MacBook.

But not all batteries are created equal.

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 03:06 PM

I have one of the newer Unibody MBP's and there is no way I get 5+ hours with my battery. Maybe 3 hours at best... so does 8 hours REALLY mean 4.25 hours?
If you read the linked article, it will be obvious that the 8 hours (or 5 hours for your model) are for a low-consumption usage scenario. The author also has done different scenarios which naturally come up with shorter durations.

dukebound85

Jun 13, 2009, 03:07 PM

Yes, I'm sure. I took my 13" back today and whilst there, checked them. The 15" are 1.5 Gbit.
Yet the white MacBook and the Mini are both SATA II. But hey Dukebound, you're never gonna put an SSD in there, so no problem yeah? Thumbs up for Apple then :confused:

hey im not defending apple for this as its a bad move

im just saying that this issue is hardly relevant for the majority of users

maybe if ssds were mainstream today its be a bigger sticking point but they are not and by the time they are, people will be looking to upgrade:rolleyes:

even if they dont upgrade, you will still see a benefit of using a ssd with a 1.5

Kilamite

Jun 13, 2009, 03:07 PM

These numbers are clearly flawed - I have never seen anywhere close to 5 hours from my 2008 MacBook.

MacBook or MacBook Pro..?

Also, depends what you are doing - if you start surfing YouTube, Flash content impacts the battery quite badly, as does doing other things. So light web surfing is what it is measured from I think.

maybe if ssds were mainstream today its be a bigger sticking point but they are not:rolleyes:

They are heading that way though - year or two they'll really come down in price. Future proofing - I know it's hard in technology to do that, but simple things like SATA (among the FireWire chip they use) should be the best available..

Pressure

Jun 13, 2009, 03:08 PM

Already posted here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=718488) ;)

AnandTech is testing the new MacBook Pro extensively to see how it compares to other generation MacBook Pro's with regards to battery life.

Needless to say, he walks away impressed with the newest iteration of the MacBook Pro.

Check it out for yourself: Apple's 2009 MacBook Pro: Battery Life to Die For (http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580).

He is getting over 8 hours on a light web surfing / music benchmark. Very impressive stuff :cool:

Discuss...

Nicky G

Jun 13, 2009, 03:11 PM

TuffLuffJimmy

Jun 13, 2009, 03:12 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replaced

Oh Duke, always the expert on the subject. You're right, Apple really should have stayed with the old design. That way that 5% that would rather replace their own battery than have Apple do it at the same price wouldn't be left out. Now we're all stuck with batteries that last 7 hours! :(

Also: I picked up one of the new Macbook Pros and I have yet to see it suggest I will have anywhere near eight hours of battery. I have the display down to half brightness and I'm only using Safari and the most it has ever said I'll get is 3.5 hours.

fastbite

Jun 13, 2009, 03:13 PM

I like 8, it looks like 2 doughnuts on top of each other -- seven is sort of skinny. Why the hell did I buy my Pro early?

dukebound85

Jun 13, 2009, 03:16 PM

Oh Duke, always the expert on the subject. You're right, Apple really should have stayed with the old design. That way that 5% that would rather replace their own battery than have Apple do it at the same price wouldn't be left out. Now we're all stuck with batteries that last 7 hours! :(

i didnt know apple replaced them at the same price as what it costs to get a new batt today

why you have to be a rude in your response about it is beyond me

i just stated the fact that people do replace batteries over the years. sue me

bloodycape

Jun 13, 2009, 03:21 PM

Is this the base 15 mbp or the model with the 9600gt? Because I have been reading that the 9400m while its suppose to have the same power usage as the intel IGP, in actual usage that is not true. It suppose to be kind of a hog on the battery. At that what I have been reading over there http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=388668&

ThomasW91

Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 PM

I wonder if the 2.8ghz processor makes any difference? I obviously haven't had it long enough to know haha. We'll see in the fall when class starts back.

Battery life definitely seems good though! The estimated time remaining is kinda useless, like watching the instantaneous MPG display on your car, it fluctuates based on how hard you are using it. The % left falls ever so slowly while web browsing.

dagamer34

Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 PM

I'm still waiting for the following things:

1) USB 3.0 - can't buy a new computer without this, since external hard drives are hampered by the paltry speed limit of USB 2.0.
2) Firewire S3200 - would be nice, but USB 3.0 is probably going to be king
3) Bluetooth 3.0 - Also nice
4) Finalized 802.11n hardware - finalized hardware always seems to perform better than draft hardware. My late 2006 macBook Pro seems to be flaky on heavy duty transfers to my Time Capsule.

And then I'll take the plunge. My late 2006 MacBook Pro is still going strong, so I have little reason to replace it immediately. Hopefully, Apple will stick all of that stuff in by mid-2010. And perhaps 512MB video RAM standard? :p

Wishful thinking:
1) 1920x1200 screen - probably not until resolution independence is finished (maybe 10.7?)
2) Audio in MiniDisplayPort.
3) Bluray

sharkinfested

Jun 13, 2009, 03:26 PM

pro2010

Jun 13, 2009, 03:30 PM

I have my keyboard replaced twice. The first time might of been on a Friday night. Possibly Saturday. I have no idea but I got it back on Sunday before the Bucs game ended. This was from a busier mall. The second time was 24 hours.

So, I doubt you will be without for any amount of time. Go early enough and you will get it back while shopping. And 1,000 charges?

I have 1,075 cycles on my core duo macbook (29 months) shenanigans! I'm perfectly content with my battery at 2+ hours. So from 8 hours will you will be complaining if you only get 5 in 4 years? So it probably isn't that big of a deal.

JoeDRC

Jun 13, 2009, 03:35 PM

I don’t think there will be an impact on the user until they try to sell it. Used laptops almost always come with dead batteries but replacing those batteries was easy – now it has to be cracked open? Ugh.
I’ve always called the “Apple tax” an “Apple deposit” because they have such a good resale value. I think this is going to hurt that.

Apart from the convenience of simply taking the old battery out and replacing the new one I wouldn't think it'd put many people off buying a used uMBP a couple of years from now.
Maybe I'm just not as lazy as some posters but if getting Apple to replace the battery costs the same a new spare battery I'd happily go to an Apple Store for it.

It's almost a non issue, just book a Genius Bar appointment beforehand, unless you live miles away from an Apple Store. Does anyone know whether Apple will send a box out? (This would however be bad as you'd be without a machine for a few days)

darkpaw

Jun 13, 2009, 03:37 PM

I don’t think there will be an impact on the user until they try to sell it. Used laptops almost always come with dead batteries but replacing those batteries was easy – now it has to be cracked open? Ugh.
Surely, if you've bought a second-hand MBP and are going to have to replace the battery, what's the big deal about taking it to a store to get it replaced? You're going to be paying the same price whether you could buy a battery yourself or get Apple to fit it?

timROGERS

Jun 13, 2009, 03:37 PM

Are there any benchmarks for the 13" yet?

birch25

Jun 13, 2009, 03:40 PM

Hmm Don't see my powerbook g4 with 9 minutes battery life on that list!

There is no point buying a new battery for me as a new one is half the value of the machine!

Lol, I had the same computer and same terrible battery life (sometimes it lasted less than a minute near the end) but I was able to upgrade back in October. I get a good 5 hours of casual use. It's a whole new world :)

turkay

Jun 13, 2009, 03:41 PM

IMO it doesn't make sense considering the Macbook Pro battery lasts at 8 hours because nearly all of the MBP owners don't use it with minimal load.

mdriftmeyer

Jun 13, 2009, 03:48 PM

sharkinfested

Jun 13, 2009, 03:52 PM

Apart from the convenience of simply taking the old battery out and replacing the new one I wouldn't think it'd put many people off buying a used uMBP a couple of years from now.
Maybe I'm just not as lazy as some posters but if getting Apple to replace the battery costs the same a new spare battery I'd happily go to an Apple Store for it.

It's almost a non issue, just book a Genius Bar appointment beforehand, unless you live miles away from an Apple Store. Does anyone know whether Apple will send a box out? (This would however be bad as you'd be without a machine for a few days)

You thinking short-term. Sure they are offering to replace the battery NOW at the same cost because these laptops are new and the battery doesn’t need replacing. You can bet that five years from now there will be a service charge on these “older” models.

Most Apple users won’t have any problems with cracking open the laptop to get to the battery - I’ve changed motherboards on my old G3 and G4 iBooks - but you can’t guarantee the technical know how of potential buyers; particularly those new to Apple products. An inconvenient battery change will put off a lot of buyers and that will lower the price you get.

Hattig

Jun 13, 2009, 03:52 PM

IMO it doesn't make sense considering the Macbook Pro battery lasts at 8 hours because nearly all of the MBP owners don't use it with minimal load.

And the article does different load tests, if you went and read it.

pika2000

Jun 13, 2009, 03:58 PM

Those that complain about the battery being "non-rremovabe," go to ifixit. Sure you have to remove a lot of screws, but the battery seems to be able to be easily unplugged. It's not like it's soldered/locked in or something. It's less convenient than regular laptops, but I see that it's definitely easier than, oh let's say upgrading the RAM on the Mac mini.

turkay

Jun 13, 2009, 03:59 PM

And the article does different load tests, if you went and read it.

Sure i've read it. The point is; the graph is misleading. You can't judge the battery time under light usage, especially for a MBP.

pmjoe

Jun 13, 2009, 04:08 PM

Anandtech does a good job exploring the technology behind the design:
I thought companies figured out that putting round batteries in a rectangular space was inefficient years ago?

twoodcc

Jun 13, 2009, 04:11 PM

wow. i am considering getting a new mbp. this helps me lean towards getting one

AidenShaw

Jun 13, 2009, 04:14 PM

Apple should offer an external battery pack, or license the magsafe connector to APC or another company that makes external batteries.

That would solve the problem with airplanes or other situations where one is away from power for more than the capacity of the one internal battery.

Flowbee

Jun 13, 2009, 04:21 PM

IMO it doesn't make sense considering the Macbook Pro battery lasts at 8 hours because nearly all of the MBP owners don't use it with minimal load.

How do you know what "almost all" MacBook Pro owners use their machines for? It's silly to assume that they're doing cpu-intensive tasks 100% of the time. The article tests the battery under 3 usage scenarios. This chart is for just one of them.

JoeDRC

Jun 13, 2009, 04:23 PM

You thinking short-term. Sure they are offering to replace the battery NOW at the same cost because these laptops are new and the battery doesn’t need replacing. You can bet that five years from now there will be a service charge on these “older” models.

Most Apple users won’t have any problems with cracking open the laptop to get to the battery - I’ve changed motherboards on my old G3 and G4 iBooks - but you can’t guarantee the technical know how of potential buyers; particularly those new to Apple products. An inconvenient battery change will put off a lot of buyers and that will lower the price you get.

A valid point. Another way of looking at this though is, 4-5 years from now when people are buying these MBPs of eBay or Craigslist. Most (this is entirely debatable) people who are looking into secondhand Apple machine's aren't new switchers. Most people if they want to switch to a mac go and buy a new one. So those who are buying these models will essentially know that they have to replace the battery at this point, even if it is by themselves. Besides more DIY guides will emerge as time goes by and when these models are updated. Plus I can see third party batteries being offered in the future (maybe).

Pika

Jun 13, 2009, 04:30 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcpANRFrI4

BRLawyer

Jun 13, 2009, 04:35 PM

Extremely impressive. Kudos Apple. :apple:

NOW tell me: any of the benighted whining PC-fanboys of this forum STILL asking for an useless "replaceable" battery? This is BY FAR the best-lasting notebook battery in the market, which will suffice even for long-haul flights (considering that you also need to sleep and eat aboard)...so why ask for something that you'll never need to replace for at least 4 years?

GO APPLE! MS IS DEAD.

turkay

Jun 13, 2009, 04:36 PM

How do you know what "almost all" MacBook Pro owners use their machines for? It's silly to assume that they're doing cpu-intensive tasks 100% of the time. The article tests the battery under 3 usage scenarios. This chart is for just one of them.

Well, you are wrong and missing the point. It must not that hard to guess "almost" all MBP owners don't use their notebooks for "very very" light web browsing. Here is a quote from the article;

..This is an extremely light test as none of the web pages have any flash ads..

And beside that, i don't remember that i ever did talk about a 100% percentage.

zorinlynx

Jun 13, 2009, 04:45 PM

If the battery lasts eight hours, even if it degrades over time to half its capacity that'll still be four hours of usable time! More than enough for most uses.

This battery will have an incredibly long useful life simply by virtue of being so high capacity in the first place. I'd love to get even four full hours out of my nearly brand new battery in my 2006 15" MBP. Eight? Holy **** that's awesome.

The only reason I'm not upgrading is I can't justify the cost; my 2006 laptop still works perfectly and is fast enough for my needs. A very small part of me wants it to die so I have an excuse. (I've always had that problem; it's hard for me to spend money without being able to justify it.)

p0intblank

Jun 13, 2009, 04:56 PM

That's incredible! Leave it to Apple to improve in an area like this.

MacRebel

Jun 13, 2009, 05:10 PM

Glad I didn't buy a MacBook pro earlier! :)

phillyeagles615

Jun 13, 2009, 05:11 PM

Has anyone tested the battery life on the new 13" macbook pros. I wonder how they compare?

abergou

Jun 13, 2009, 05:16 PM

I'm still waiting for the following things:

1) 1920x1200 screen - probably not until resolution independence is finished (maybe 10.7?)
2) Audio in MiniDisplayPort.
3) Bluray

I second all of these. By the way, does anyone know what's up with resolution independence? We were supposed to get it with Leopard, then with Snow Leopard....

JayLenochiniMac

Jun 13, 2009, 05:21 PM

Why is the new 15" so much better than the unibody 17" with supposedly the same non-removable battery?

Jayomat

Jun 13, 2009, 05:27 PM

nice!!! one thing i love about my mb is the batterylife. when it's time for me to upgrade (either i have plenty of money or the mb dies), i will happily do so! :)

my macbook is 22 month old, has 586 loadcycles and still 100% capacity (according to cocnutbattery):)

mrklaw

Jun 13, 2009, 05:33 PM

how the hell are they getting 5hrs from the 2008 unibody MBP? I have one and I'm lucky to get a couple of hours wifi web browsing. Maybe firefox is a power hog, or I visit too many sites with flash, but thats still pretty bad.

ziggyonice

Jun 13, 2009, 05:35 PM

Man, feel bad for the 2006 model :D

Thanks for rubbing it in.

PygmySurfer

Jun 13, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quit crying about the built-in batteries. They are easy enough to replace. You don't *have* to take it to the Apple store to get it replaced. :rolleyes:

Is this true? As I don't have an Apple store nearby, would Apple send me a replacement battery, and have me send the original back, should I need to replace it? I'm on the 4th battery for my MBP (Late 2006 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo). My only concern with the new MBPs would be having to send it away to replace the battery under warranty. Would be nice if someone could confirm this (maybe a 17" uMBP user who's had a battery problem, and doesn't have an Apple store nearby).

applecultvictim

Jun 13, 2009, 05:40 PM

minik

Jun 13, 2009, 05:47 PM

That's very good news for shoppers in the market.

I had the original iBook, original TiBook, and iBook G4 in the past. Besides the original iBook, which I didn't maintain well enough, I never purchased an extra battery nor replacement.

Chase R

Jun 13, 2009, 05:48 PM

Wow... This is just awesome. Way to go Apple. 

ma2ha3

Jun 13, 2009, 05:54 PM

this macbook pro 15" is very attractive to me.
i am thinking of getting it.

it is so hot it sizzies.

too bad, they took away the expressport.

i dun really understand the rational of that.

Michael73

Jun 13, 2009, 05:54 PM

How come I didn't see my UMBP on the list?

I just got it at the beginning of April after they did the quiet speed bump in March from 2.53 to 2.66 of the mid-range 15" model.

Chase R

Jun 13, 2009, 05:58 PM

too bad, they took away the expressport.

i dun really understand the rational of that.

99% of MBP users never used it in the first place. An SD Card slot makes a lot more sense.

dmmcintyre3

Jun 13, 2009, 06:01 PM

Is this the 15 or 13?

Chase R

Jun 13, 2009, 06:01 PM

Is this the 15 or 13?

15"

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 06:04 PM

Is this true? As I don't have an Apple store nearby, would Apple send me a replacement battery, and have me send the original back, should I need to replace it? I'm on the 4th battery for my MBP (Late 2006 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo).
Probably not from Apple but in the same way as you can get replacement batteries for iPods from third-party manufacturers, you'll probably can get replacement batteries for the unibody MBPs sooner or later (if Apple has done something really fancy with their technology, these up to 1000 re-charges are somewhat unique, it might take a bit longer for others to replicate that).
But at any rate, Apple will probably sell the batteries to authorized Apple service centers, so you should be able to get it through them.

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 06:12 PM

1) USB 3.0 - can't buy a new computer without this, since external hard drives are hampered by the paltry speed limit of USB 2.0
What is the logic behind this? It is fair enough to say wanting to wait for technology X to appear in a computer before buying the next computer. But with MBPs having FW800, which might be in real terms about 2-3 times as fast as USB 2, the justification for your decision to wait does not make much sense.
If you had said, you wanted to wait for USB 3 because it is about 3 to 4 times as FW800 that would make perfect sense.

chauhanvik

Jun 13, 2009, 06:13 PM

I have the late 2008 2.8 MacBook Pro , can you change the battery in it for the new one?

ditto, if there was any possible way of replacing the battery in my macbook pro (late 2008 model) then i would do it in an instant. not fussed about how much that would cost, although it is annoying to see that battery life has almost doubled with the new updates :(

NinjaHERO

Jun 13, 2009, 06:16 PM

That makes me feel real good about my recent purchase. :D

ma2ha3

Jun 13, 2009, 06:17 PM

99% of MBP users never used it in the first place. An SD Card slot makes a lot more sense.

I actually use a CF on my camera.

wetrix

Jun 13, 2009, 06:20 PM

How long does it take to recharge from flat? Anywhere near as long as the air?

Veri

Jun 13, 2009, 06:21 PM

Things I have learnt about batteries on any consumer equipment:

1. No-one's idea of "real world scenario" seems to match mine, because I never get as many hours as salesmen or reviewers do out of new machines.

2. All claimed reports on capacity loss are wrong, and need to be cut by about a quarter unless the battery is left outside of the machine in a cool, dry environment.

3. When batteries start going wrong - e.g. bulging, leaking, etc. - you want to take them out now. Possibly even yesterday, or last week. And it's imperative to have visual clues that this'll happen, otherwise you will (at best) ruin your hardware.

4. There's always room for a spare battery. There's not always a spare power outlet and adapter.

5. Batteries are cheaper and manufactured by third parties for longer when they are easily replaceable. I can still get batteries for 6-8 year old laptops that I or my colleagues/family/friends use.

6. I take better care of my hardware than anyone else, and I am also available to me wherever and whenever I am, so battery replacements are most conveniently done by me.

7. I also take better care of my private data than anyone else, and I'm not going to waste my time removing my hard drive just so someone else can replace my battery. Even if there were a convenient audited full-disk encryption solution for OS X, it doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the principle of multiple layers of defense - where one important layer is "don't give your machine to anyone else unless unavoidable".

What's going to happen in 2-3 years' time is what happens with every other new battery tech that's ever been divined: heavy or (as yet undefined, since it depends on the tech) atypical users will find their batteries mostly dead. Light users or those who buy a new machine every month will claim correctly that it doesn't affect them.

I can just about stomach getting a low end iPod with a hard-to-replace battery. A laptop, or even a phone? For all the reasons above, never.

MacLover4491

Jun 13, 2009, 06:22 PM

Allow me to say to the naysayers, to M$ and Laurene and that other clown they had in their bang bus / bros ads, Bruno or whatever his name was, to Suck it Up, while they are busy comparing crappy specs on their windoze crapware apple is busy with BOTH cutting down their prices AND innovating.

This is dedicated to all these people. :cool::apple:

haha you wonder why apple has to cut price. If you are smart then i dont have to tell you this. Look at last quarter, all mac sales were down badly hahha

Stridder44

Jun 13, 2009, 06:28 PM

HA! That graph says the 2008 MBPs will last 5 hours (with web browsing no less). I'm lucky if I see 3 and a half (yes, with the screen dimmed, bluetooth off, etc.)

Dagless

Jun 13, 2009, 06:36 PM

It's about time commercial laptop batteries had a good push. I'm not happy with the battery being soldered in, but then again I'm not buying any of these new machines just yet (I buy a laptop every 3 years and my current one is only 7 months old). Hope we start seeing this tech in portable games systems and cameras too, and eventually laptops that work throughout the day without being plugged in.

RoboCop001

Jun 13, 2009, 06:45 PM

Thanks for rubbing it in.

Thanks for remindng me later in the thread!

*looks at 1.5hr battery life from 2006 mbp and cries*

Bevz

Jun 13, 2009, 06:48 PM

I'd love to own one of these beauties, but I just haven't got the money... Yet! ;)

Prof.

Jun 13, 2009, 06:54 PM

Makes me wonder when we'll see a 12+hr battery. :eek:

Bevz

Jun 13, 2009, 07:01 PM

Makes me wonder when we'll see a 12+hr battery. :eek:

It won't be long at this rate! Happy days :)

uhhitsjames

Jun 13, 2009, 07:07 PM

I went to school today for 8 hours, had a 30 min break and I still have an hour and a half of battery left. All I have been doing is coding and slight internet use, but still.. I am loving this MBP.

gfountain

Jun 13, 2009, 07:15 PM

Yes, the new MBP has a great battery life. But here is a scenario I am often confronted with:

I am in a place where I cannot access a power outlet. I use my MBP 15" 2008 and when the battery runs low, I STILL HAVE AN OPTION. I moved from a MB Air for this reason. EVEN _IF_ I find an outlet later in the day, I use my laptop and it slowly recharges, and if I find myself in the same position later on in the day, I am limited on a laptop that I cannot use an extra battery because I have only have whatever has been recharged to that point. While the battery life on the new MBP is very impressive - what do you do if you can only find a power outlet for an hour or so before moving to a new location and then find yourself an hour later needing to use your laptop for several hours in a lobby somewhere that has no power outlet? You are SOL. Yes, it will last all DAY - I wish my out-of-town workdays were limited to 8 hours a day max - but sometimes I need to use it in the evening and find myself spending an hour looking for a location with a power outlet just so I can use my laptop. Until the battery life matches or exceeds the maximum amount of time I may need to work in a day, a swappable battery is really a main consideration for me. And if you have an iPhone and need to charge it (because you are on the phone a lot traveling), it reduces the battery life even further. Remember - not everyone is traveling in a car or plane where you can carry an adapter - by train/rail or in the field limits my ability to work with then new MBP - constantly watching the battery meter and wondering where I can plug in for extra juice is a lot more of a hassle than carrying around an extra battery or two.

I guess it is Apple demographics, though: focussing on students and people that have fixed workdays vs. true road warriors. I am VERY glad that I purchased my 15" MBP when I did. I love my Apple, but this is just not a smart decision IMO.

...and it is not like these machines recharge quickly - especially when in use...

g

PCMacUser

Jun 13, 2009, 07:17 PM

I've been urging my wife to let me buy a new 13" MBP, but she says that we need the money for food and to pay the mortgage.

She has her priorities all wrong.

jcshas

Jun 13, 2009, 07:20 PM

I own the new 15" MBP's (2.53 GHz) w/ non-removable battery, and can attest to this; the battery lasts forever. long battery life is a nice trade off for the "lack" of removable battery, IMO. I've owned several iterations of Apple laptops over the years, and this one is hands down the best I've ever owned. It's extremely fast, the screen in beautiful, and the battery life is amazing. Very happy with my purchase!

DaBrain

Jun 13, 2009, 07:23 PM

IMO it doesn't make sense considering the Macbook Pro battery lasts at 8 hours because nearly all of the MBP owners don't use it with minimal load.

Agreed! This topic is just ridiculous! There are so many variables to consider! So to say under light use, like what the hell does that mean. I bet everyone here has their own definition of light use! This is just dumb.

Even if the battery life is just a wee bit better, thats great! So why all the Hype over this minimal load test?

Over all many think the last update from Apple was awesome. If you get tons of hours then great, if you get a wee bit more than you use to, Great! ;)

swagi

Jun 13, 2009, 07:23 PM

Hmm Don't see my powerbook g4 with 9 minutes battery life on that list!

There is no point buying a new battery for me as a new one is half the value of the machine!

Hate to disagree, but it depends on what you do with it.

*hugs his Tiger G4 Powerbook*

I'm back to 4 hours again on light web surfing :D
And this with my 63 months old Powerbook according to Coconut battery.

I bought the replacement battery as the current MBPs really don't compare to the build quality I'm used to. And as long as Apple doesn't deliver...well, Tiger and a G4 is still sufficient for my typical usage.

gfountain

Jun 13, 2009, 07:25 PM

I'm happy with my '07 2.4's battery - mainly because when it goes into standby I know it's time to hit the hay for the evening...

And for us travelers, real road warriors, entrepreneurs and consultants that can't allow our laptop to dictate our work hours, I guess we are SOL...:(

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 07:31 PM

Yes, the new MBP has a great battery life. But here is a scenario I am often confronted with:

For those you are used to carry two or more spare batteries around with them it is probably also a good enough to carry an external battery pack around.
(I don't know whether such thing exists already because of the MagSafe connector but it exists for iPhones and iPods. But there exists a MagSafe Airline adaptor, sold by Apple, external battery packs could surely connect to that.)
And maybe the extended internal battery plus one external battery pack provides about same autonomy than the three previous batteries (one inside the MBP + two spare ones) and is also about the same weight, size, and prize (even though admittedly more awkward to handle).

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 07:35 PM

And for us travelers, real road warriors, entrepreneurs and consultants that can't allow our laptop to dictate our work hours, I guess we are SOL...:(
You all behave as if external battery packs did not exist.

(And maybe they don't exist yet because demand does not exist yet, but as the external battery packs for the iPhone have shown, if there is demand, these devices will appear.)

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 07:36 PM

I'm not happy with the battery being soldered in
Well if it were soldered in. But is isn't. Replacing the battery is not much harder than replacing the harddrive (which is also not soldered in) as all the teardowns of the MBPs have shown.

arn

Jun 13, 2009, 07:37 PM

Agreed! This topic is just ridiculous! There are so many variables to consider! So to say under light use, like what the hell does that mean. I bet everyone here has their own definition of light use! This is just dumb.

It's not dumb. It's a standardized test across many different models. 8 hours might not mean 8 hours for you, but it's 58% more than the previous MBP. Were you getting only 3.5 hours on your old MBP for your usage? This one will give you 5.5 hours (58% more).

arn

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 07:42 PM

This topic is just ridiculous! There are so many variables to consider! So to say under light use, like what the hell does that mean. I bet everyone here has their own definition of light use! This is just dumb.

Even if the battery life is just a wee bit better, thats great! So why all the Hype over this minimal load test?
The test involved a number of different scenarios. The increase in autonomy compared to the previous model was between 40 and 100%. If you consider that as irrelevant, you either have very high expectations of technical progressive or are just condescending for the sake of it.

gnasher729

Jun 13, 2009, 07:49 PM

I've been urging my wife to let me buy a new 13" MBP, but she says that we need the money for food and to pay the mortgage.

She has her priorities all wrong.

Tell her the next time she goes shopping for clothes or shoes. :rolleyes:

Jawsome

Jun 13, 2009, 07:52 PM

They have to to this every 3-5 years, ie, probably never more than once during their ownership of the computer. Once, at most. I'll upgrade my internal harddrive more often than buying a new battery.

I guess the difference is not only do you have to take it to the store when the battery it totally done, but when it is simply in need of a re-charge popping in another battery is no longer an option.

Veri

Jun 13, 2009, 07:53 PM

For those you are used to carry two or more spare batteries around with them it is probably also a good enough to carry an external battery pack around.

No. This is what I hate about Macs: plugging in a million external sticky-outy things because Jobs has a fetish for thin smooth flatness which is immediately destroyed by a million wires to make up for things that either should already be built-in or be installable within the machine. I want to have precisely [ 0 ] protruding things plugged into my laptop for the entire time I'm using it on the road.

Does anyone ever actually use a laptop on their lap while on the road any more? Or does Apple just care for college students whose idea of heavy stress is walking between dorm room and lecture hall?

bobertoq

Jun 13, 2009, 07:56 PM

while users may not carry spare batteries, they do get them replacedYes, but Apple said these new batteries will last 5 years before it even starts to loose its life and that it will replace it for free (I doubt for free) at any Apple Store.

No. This is what I hate about Macs: plugging in a million external sticky-outy things because Jobs has a fetish for thin smooth flatness which is immediately destroyed by a million wires to make up for things that either should already be built-in or be installable within the machine. I want to have precisely [ 0 ] protruding things plugged into my laptop for the entire time I'm using it on the road.Then you might want my MacBook, because there is never anything protruding out of it except for the charging cord at night.

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 07:59 PM

I guess the difference is not only do you have to take it to the store when the battery it totally done, but when it is simply in need of a re-charge popping in another battery is no longer an option.
As I said multiple times, get an external battery pack.

Veri

Jun 13, 2009, 08:08 PM

Then you might want my MacBook, because there is never anything protruding out of it except for the charging cord at night.
The real Macbooks before they removed Firewire? They are quite lovely, yes, but let down slightly by the lack of Expresscard/Cardbus. If I move to Mac for laptop again, it'll be one of them.

My ever faithful Wallstreet G3, which is retired to house duties these days, was usable on the move because 2*Cardbus meant I could run wireless and Bluetooth without things sticking out. I assume everyone who uses the Internet on the move tethers to their non-iPhone, because I can't imagine a USB 3G dongle even while commuting on the train.

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 08:09 PM

No. This is what I hate about Macs: plugging in a million external sticky-outy things because Jobs has a fetish for thin smooth flatness which is immediately destroyed by a million wires to make up for things that either should already be built-in or be installable within the machine. I want to have precisely [ 0 ] protruding things plugged into my laptop for the entire time I'm using it on the road.

Does anyone ever actually use a laptop on their lap while on the road any more? Or does Apple just care for college students whose idea of heavy stress is walking between dorm room and lecture hall?
There is a very nice German word for your attitude: Besitzstandswahrung which can be translated as 'non-impairment of vested rights'.

You see, 99% of all laptop user do not buy a second battery. They all profit from the built-in battery. Those 1% who do have additional batteries suffer from having to use an external battery pack in some of the situations where they today need a second or third battery. But since it is apparently an impairment of the vested rights of those 1% it must be a stupid selfish move by the CEO.

RyanR.

Jun 13, 2009, 08:16 PM

I think it's great apple:), but They should make an external battery that has a cord with a magcharger on the end... that would take away all these tears that I keep hearing:rolleyes:

Veri

Jun 13, 2009, 08:23 PM

You see, 99% of all laptop user do not buy a second battery.
Is this one of those Internet statistics that's made up on the spot? I'll throw one out: 90% of computer purchases aren't for Macs, so why are we bothering with the interests of the remaining 10%?

They all profit from the built-in battery.
Only those who use their laptop on battery for more than n but less than n+m minutes, and have owned the laptop for less than q months - where n, m and q are nebulous naturals which salesmen, reviewers and users will each estimate differently - will benefit from the built-in battery. I and others have long stretches of life with laptop unplugged for not more than a couple of hours at a time; an 8 hour battery life is an irrelevance then. What is more important is a guaranteed minimum, not a huge maximum.

Those 1% who do have additional batteries suffer from having to use an external battery pack in some of the situations where they today need a second or third battery.
I know, it sucks, and we'll have to continue avoiding Mac laptops.

But since it is apparently an impairment of the vested rights of those 1% it must be a stupid selfish move by the CEO.
Of course it's a (financially) selfish move by the CEO. If the CEO of a publicly traded company ever did something that wasn't (financially) selfish then I'd be rather worried for the future of that company. It's certainly not stupid, though. Jobs rarely does *stupid* things - what's dumb about making it hard to replace the most consumable part of a device intended to be turned into a consumable? Sounds lucrative, if you can keep people from whining too loudly. OK, the straw man is defeated.

chr1s60

Jun 13, 2009, 08:23 PM

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

I would guess that it would only take between a few minutes and a few hours to take it in and have it changed. I am sure Apple looked ahead and that they realize many people can't afford to be without their computer for a day or more at a time. I wouldn't have a problem being able to drop it off at the Apple store and pick it up an hour or two later. 10-20 minutes would be really nice though.

parapup

Jun 13, 2009, 08:26 PM

This is some very good news indeed. I only hope that the batteries last the number of cycles Apple claims it does - I have been through 3 Macbook Pros and never got > 3hr battery but that is not so much of a problem. The problem I have had is how quickly the batteries deteriorate - the MBP I am typing this on has done 153 cycles and it already does not charge beyond 93% and System Profiler says check battery.

If the new batteries truly last for 1000 cycles and give 8hr per charge ( as I am willing to believe they do) - that is one heck of a reason to upgrade. Real value as opposed to the SD card saga ;) With this kind of battery life and capacity I don't mind that it isn't replaceable - doubt many have a reason to.

MacAndy74

Jun 13, 2009, 08:32 PM

Extremely impressive. Kudos Apple. :apple:

+1 For leading the market in Battery innovation.

Jayomat

Jun 13, 2009, 08:34 PM

The problem I have had is how quickly the batteries deteriorate - the MBP I am typing this on has done 153 cycles and it already does not charge beyond 93% and System Profiler says check battery.

poor you. as i already said: i own a late07 macbook 2,1 which is on its 586 loadcycle. it still has 99% capacity and i get around 3-4hrs productivity :)

Veri

Jun 13, 2009, 08:50 PM

poor you. as i already said: i own a late07 macbook 2,1 which is on its 586 loadcycle. it still has 99% capacity and i get around 3-4hrs productivity :)
This is well illustrating the problem. Most parts in a laptop, treated well and past the first few months, will last for years: indeed, it's very rare for me to find my equipment failing in between years 2 and 6 of usage, with the exception of moving parts (rarely) and (always) the battery. They seem to have wildly different longevities even when supposedly the same part. You might have a very similar usage pattern to your neighbour, but slight differences in ambient temperature or manufacture of battery will make a huge difference to lifespan.

parapup

Jun 13, 2009, 08:51 PM

poor you. as i already said: i own a late07 macbook 2,1 which is on its 586 loadcycle. it still has 99% capacity and i get around 3-4hrs productivity :)

That would be outstanding - at that rate I don't see how it could drop to 80% capacity in another 1500 cycles. Have you ever opened the battery compartment? May be you will find Apple sneaked in a R&D prototype there - future batteries are supposed to last long enough to serve a person his/her lifetime ;)

Apple Says 80% at 300 cycles (http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html)

MacLover4491

Jun 13, 2009, 08:59 PM

gfountain

Jun 13, 2009, 09:04 PM

I would guess that it would only take between a few minutes and a few hours to take it in and have it changed. I am sure Apple looked ahead and that they realize many people can't afford to be without their computer for a day or more at a time. I wouldn't have a problem being able to drop it off at the Apple store and pick it up an hour or two later. 10-20 minutes would be really nice though.

Well, as someone that has frequented the Genius Bar - I can assure you that you cannot get anything done - not even a memory upgrade - in 1 to 2 hours - at least not at the Apple Stores in Dallas/Ft. Worth (3 of them). It took 4 DAYS to get my defective HDD replaced. Now something soldered into the unit - I wonder in a poll how many of them know what a soldering iron is ;)

parapup

Jun 13, 2009, 09:05 PM

you wont get 8hours. You will only get between 5 to 6hous on real usage.

Ok, but that is still a huge improvement over the 3hrs I get today, no? Also I thought Anand's tests were close to real life - which would mean that I should see similar (at least not far off) results?

MacLover4491

Jun 13, 2009, 09:10 PM

Ok, but that is still a huge improvement over the 3hrs I get today, no? Also I thought Anand's tests were close to real life - which would mean that I should see similar (at least not far off) results?

100% wrong. Just common sense.

manu chao

Jun 13, 2009, 09:12 PM

Is this one of those Internet statistics that's made up on the spot?
No, it is based on a not that small sample of anecdotal evidence. For once, I don't know anybody personally who owns a second battery (except myself who once owned one and used it in a grand total of two occasions).
Moreover, from the comments here is easy to see that the vast majority of posters do not own a second battery.

solaris7

Jun 13, 2009, 09:14 PM

not long before EVERYONE copies apple!

BlueRevolution

Jun 13, 2009, 09:14 PM

I don't understand the battery life complaints. When I'm away from my desk (and power adapter), I use Safari, Pages, and Coda. I don't need to watch movies, use my optical drive, render video, or play graphics-intensive games. With respect to the people who do, I think most people use their laptops like me. Guess what? My iBook G3 Dual USB has 58 loadcycles, 93% battery capacity, and still gets more life than advertised, even with AirPort on.

For the handful of people here who own multiple batteries, I feel for you, but I would prefer to get half again as much life out of my battery than pander to the lowest common denominator. Go on Ebay and get a previous-gen MacBook from someone who is going the other way.

Don't forget, the built-in battery will last 4x as long before it needs to be replaced. Since the replacement cost is roughly the same as as a new removable battery, you're paying 1/4 as much in the long run.

Fatdog

Jun 13, 2009, 09:18 PM

No. This is what I hate about Macs: plugging in a million external sticky-outy things because Jobs has a fetish for thin smooth flatness which is immediately destroyed by a million wires to make up for things that either should already be built-in or be installable within the machine. I want to have precisely [ 0 ] protruding things plugged into my laptop for the entire time I'm using it on the road.

Does anyone ever actually use a laptop on their lap while on the road any more? Or does Apple just care for college students whose idea of heavy stress is walking between dorm room and lecture hall?

What are you doing that requires a million wires? The only wire that is every connected to my unibody MacBook is the MagSafe connector.

It's unreasonable to hate an external battery pack as much as you do. External battery packs can also charge the internal battery just as well as the the power brick. So they're very useful for quick charges. Also, if you're on the road, use a car adapter to charge the internal battery. It isn't that difficult. One wire isn't going to tie you down and limit mobility... I think the 10 external batteries--that you imply you carry around--would present a much greater burden on mobility.

gfountain

Jun 13, 2009, 09:25 PM

Well if it were soldered in. But is isn't. Replacing the battery is not much harder than replacing the harddrive (which is also not soldered in) as all the teardowns of the MBPs have shown.

Sure - the case is sealed - crack the case, void your warranty. The battery in the iPhone isn't soldered in, either, but I have *YET* to see one that has been opened up that you cannot see through inspection has been opened up - unless it has been SENT AWAY to Apple where they have the *magic* tools to do so - but I don't have an extra $2K sitting around to have an extra laptop for my daily work while it goes back and forth for service - explain to me how it could be gone less than 3 days sending it overnight if there is someone waiting with a catcher's mitt on the other end.

The fact is, for a tablet computer, for a Kindle or Sony eReader, or a Netbook - ok, I get it. But for something Apple bills ON THEIR WEBSITE ('Help Us Choose Your Mac') as a desktop replacement, yet MOBILE, how on earth can you restrict someone to 6 - 8 hours of use and not give them the option of plugging it in - then it takes almost 4 hours if you are using it while it is plugged in to fully recharge.

I LOVE APPLE - and their products. I have 3 Apple TV's, everyone in the house has an Apple Notebook and my 4 yr old has a new iMac & iPod Touch and I have anxiety attacks without my iPhone - but this is technology for MacBooks, or the MacBook Air. Not the MacBook Pro. Not when you are running it as a desktop replacement running Photoshop CS4, DreamWeaver CS4, Mail, iCal, Skype, iChat, Excel/Word, and Safari and hopping back and forth using the graphics adapter in high performance mode. AWESOME technology - yes, I am SURE they will have battery extension packs AT SOME DATE not made by Apple and cost a fortune. But NOW, for someone moving place to place, terminal to terminal, using wifi, opening and closing their MBP all day, and needing to meet someone without having to think about which place has a lot of power outlets and will be the least crowded - it doesn't work for ME. If I am 1%, ok, I am 1%. This was just my observation - my opinion - that until the battery can outlast my internal battery (I need to sleep/'recharge' too), it was disappointing to me that Apple made their most powerful line of laptops limited in battery life - my Mac Pro is always plugged in - so this 2009 MBP really isn't a mobile 'desktop replacement'. Look gorgeous, sleek, powerful, fast - great machine, as usual, just a shame they made this choice with this line... IMO.

TuffLuffJimmy

Jun 13, 2009, 09:27 PM

Sure - the case is sealed - crack the case, void your warranty.

Opening the Macbook Pro doesn't void your warranty...

iamPro

Jun 13, 2009, 09:30 PM

I'm one of those who got the MBP 15" just months before the new MBP with 8hrs of battery life.

Really didn't expect a fairly significant upgrade to the relatively new MBP lineup.

I have two questions.

1. How do you get 5hrs of web browsing with the prev MBP 15"?
After a full charge, the instant I turn on my MBP with medium to low brightness and no peripherals and wifi on, the indicator says 3hrs or 3:30hrs max.

2. Did the MBP 15 also get the 60% increase in gamut, or was it just for the 13 MB that had lower quality screens?

parapup

Jun 13, 2009, 09:39 PM

1. How do you get 5hrs of web browsing with the prev MBP 15"?
After a full charge, the instant I turn on my MBP with medium to low brightness and no peripherals and wifi on, the indicator says 3hrs or 3:30hrs max.

I've tried and failed -you cannot get more than 3hrs. Apple lies when they say 5 hr - they have invented a good way to get away with it ;)

Based on some of the responses if AnandTech is saying 8hrs it means with the new MBPs instead of 3 hrs you will get may be 4hrs or 5 if you are lucky.

bit density

Jun 13, 2009, 09:45 PM

You can go here...
http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_net_MacBook_MacBook_Pro_Battery_Packs_s/78.htm

The rest of us customers, will glorify in our new found battery life. As a matter of fact, there is a likely huge net gain of customers to longer and more sufficient battery life, than those that will juggle batteries in and out of the machine, (because there is no external charger), rather than use this, which is what they should have been using in the first place, if this was a problem for you, replaceable battery or not.

Simply, for people that replaced their battery ONCE during a session, they won't have two, if they did it twice, they can get the above device, and it will provide enough battery life as if they had to do replace the battery 4 times in a session before.

Simply you are complaining to complain. Your complaint really makes no sense, and no I really do not want a lesser computer to solve your truly non-existent problem.

They do and have existed...
http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_net_MacBook_MacBook_Pro_Battery_Packs_s/78.htm

And if you previously had to change your battery once per session, you don't anymore. If you had to replace it twice, it would have been cheaper to buy this thing than 2 extra MB batteries, and it will work as if you have to change your battery 4 times before.

It's cheaper, its better...

And you are really just making up problems to hear yourself post.

I do not want a lesser machine for your non-problem. Seriously.

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

Once every 5 years, and when they have been done a couple of times, I am pretty sure this will be an as you wait kinda thing, and then you have another 5 years. TEN FREAKING YEARS, with one stop at the store.

No I do not want a lesser machine to solve your non-existent problem.

Hmm Don't see my powerbook g4 with 9 minutes battery life on that list!

There is no point buying a new battery for me as a new one is half the value of the machine!

I am sure that you can buy a new battery for cheaper than that. And it is either a portable laptop or it isn't. Either you need a battery or you don't. If you don't why don't you complain about your wall color. If you do, then buy the battery.

gfountain

Jun 13, 2009, 09:56 PM

They do and have existed...
http://www.batterygeek.net/Batterygeek_net_MacBook_MacBook_Pro_Battery_Packs_s/78.htm

And if you previously had to change your battery once per session, you don't anymore. If you had to replace it twice, it would have been cheaper to buy this thing than 2 extra MB batteries, and it will work as if you have to change your battery 4 times before.

It's cheaper, its better...

And you are really just making up problems to hear yourself post.

I do not want a lesser machine for your non-problem. Seriously.

Thanks! I am def interested in this product - I had no idea it existed.

Been a reader of the forums for over a year - just joined today - these were my first posts - didn't think I was making up a problem. Sorry you have such a miserable attitude - life's too short.

Thank you for the link - I sincerely appreciate it!

kockgunner

Jun 13, 2009, 10:46 PM

Is this one of those Internet statistics that's made up on the spot? I'll throw one out: 90% of computer purchases aren't for Macs, so why are we bothering with the interests of the remaining 10%?

Because 10% of the computer market is greater than 1% of the 10%. :rolleyes:

BWhaler

Jun 13, 2009, 10:55 PM

I have a late 2008 15" MBP.

I get about 2.5 - 3.0 hours, medium brightness, surfing the web.

This chart says 5 hours. What is wrong with my computer?

Schtumple

Jun 13, 2009, 10:59 PM

I have a late 2008 15" MBP.

I get about 2.5 - 3.0 hours, medium brightness, surfing the web.

This chart says 5 hours. What is wrong with my computer?

I get about 4-5 hours with mine (Early 2008 15" MBP) With low-ish screen, only Safari and Pages open.

Install Cocoabattery, charge your battery up to 100% then see what cocoa battery says your health is at.

arn

Jun 13, 2009, 11:08 PM

No, it is based on a not that small sample of anecdotal evidence. For once, I don't know anybody personally who owns a second battery (except myself who once owned one and used it in a grand total of two occasions).
Moreover, from the comments here is easy to see that the vast majority of posters do not own a second battery.

http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=571

So like 8% of laptop owners here polled in 2008 actually had a spare battery and use them

arn

mariov

Jun 13, 2009, 11:26 PM

Amazing. Can´t wait to have a new basic 13´ MBP. :)

retroneo

Jun 13, 2009, 11:33 PM

I thought companies figured out that putting round batteries in a rectangular space was inefficient years ago?

Yes, Apple introduced prismatic (rectangular) batteries in the first PowerBook G4 17".

This is not news....

DaBrain

Jun 13, 2009, 11:39 PM

It's not dumb. It's a standardized test across many different models. 8 hours might not mean 8 hours for you, but it's 58% more than the previous MBP. Were you getting only 3.5 hours on your old MBP for your usage? This one will give you 5.5 hours (58% more).

arn

That's OK Arn, I'll standby my opinion. You have yours and I have mine. To me it's dumb due to all the variables and difference usages from various people.

Different strokes for different folks!

If one gets more hours like I said Great, so what's your problem?

Nugget

Jun 13, 2009, 11:42 PM

Wow...I just love how far we have come...seeing my 2.2GHz at the bottom makes me feel left out :(.

Ahem.

Your 2.2 is sitting pretty on top of my 2.0 core duo MBP.

Edgecrusherr

Jun 13, 2009, 11:50 PM

I bought the new 13" MacBook Pro on Thursday. Stats: 2.53GHz, 4GB RAM, 200GB 7200 RPM (switched from old MacBook, which was an upgrade from the original 60GB).

I bought the base config of high end 13" model, then switch my 7200 RPM drive in. I can't believe they even still sell 5400 RPM drive with their Pro line.

This is a really beautiful machine, I love it.

As for a battery: when I first turned it on to play with it before switching hard drives it read 6+ hours of battery. Since then I get an average of 4 hours of battery under my normal web usage. I'm very disappointed by that. The only reason for this I can see is I keep the screen brightness up all the way up and I switched the default hard drive for a faster, perhaps less efficient drive. System Profiler tell me my drive is "Hitachi HTS722020K9SA00" incase anyone wants to know. I believe I bought is about 1-2 years ago.

I can run bench mark tests, what's the current best app for this?

iamPro

Jun 13, 2009, 11:55 PM

I've tried and failed -you cannot get more than 3hrs. Apple lies when they say 5 hr - they have invented a good way to get away with it ;)

Based on some of the responses if AnandTech is saying 8hrs it means with the new MBPs instead of 3 hrs you will get may be 4hrs or 5 if you are lucky.

ic. Well, I do know you discount half off any advertised battery life.

But I just thought AnandTech actually did real-life testings and the charts reflected that.

@Schtumple
Are you saying cocoabattery would indicate a different battery life?

BTW

Jun 13, 2009, 11:57 PM

That's awesome. That'll last for most flights within the USA.

My late 2007 Macbook is barely a quarter of that time when playing a DVD. On a long road trip that's a bummer.

queshy

Jun 13, 2009, 11:57 PM

This massive increase in battery life is clearly worth not being able to change it. It's like having 2 batteries already. Also, the way these things are designed, you'll probably change your computer before needing to take Apple up on their offer to change the battery for you.

What other 15" at this size/weight at the same pricepoint has this kind of battery life? Most cheap 15" machines have 3 hours of battery life, maybe 4 hours.

Schtumple

Jun 13, 2009, 11:59 PM

ic. Well, I do know you discount half off any advertised battery life.

But I just thought AnandTech actually did real-life testings and the charts reflected that.

@Schtumple
Are you saying cocoabattery would indicate a different battery life?

It will tell your battery health as a percentage, which might explain poor performance.

bit density

Jun 14, 2009, 12:00 AM

As for a battery: when I first turned it on to play with it before switching hard drives it read 6+ hours of battery.

It is not that likely. You should try dimming at least a little the screen display. That is going to be one of the largest uses of speed.

The other is going to be flash. For ads and on screen video. The two of those things will drain an amazing amount of battery life, and it can happen on screens that you don't even see. There are all sorts of flash and ajax rich sites that use all sorts of battery life that are popunder sites so you aren't even really aware that this is happening.

Flash is getting some love in the hardware acceleration arena, especially on Nvidia stuff. So hopefully that will reduce background flash stuff. The other recommendation is keep your windows closed, to increase battery life.

bit density

Jun 14, 2009, 12:02 AM

That's awesome. That'll last for most flights within the USA.

My late 2007 Macbook is barely a quarter of that time when playing a DVD. On a long road trip that's a bummer.

On a long road trip you should have an inverter for the car.

But it will get even better, under snowleapord one of the dramatic power increases will come from a hardware assisted codec for DVD playback. This should result in pretty dramatic power savings if reports are correct.

bit density

Jun 14, 2009, 12:06 AM

http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=571

So like 8% of laptop owners here polled in 2008 actually had a spare battery and use them

arn

Which is valid. The next question would be how many have 3 batteries. Because 2 batteries are going to largely be solved by the current better batteries. And then would you be better with an external power system that should give you DRAMATIC amounts of extra power, and is easier to manage than an extra battery.

So most of these peoples problems are actually acutely solved by the new solution, most people will simply have a better experience, and a small crowd may get forced into a better solution.

WIN-WIN-WIN.

bit density

Jun 14, 2009, 12:07 AM

I have a late 2008 15" MBP.

I get about 2.5 - 3.0 hours, medium brightness, surfing the web.

This chart says 5 hours. What is wrong with my computer?

Surfing Porn? Or other video. Seriously, flash for ads, or in backgrounds or in video, HAMMER the processor, more than anything most anybody does.

BengalDuck

Jun 14, 2009, 12:10 AM

Ahem.

Your 2.2 is sitting pretty on top of my 2.0 core duo MBP.

Which sounds like a dream compared to my 1.67 GHz PPC Powerbook :P

bretm

Jun 14, 2009, 12:17 AM

Hmm Don't see my powerbook g4 with 9 minutes battery life on that list!

There is no point buying a new battery for me as a new one is half the value of the machine!

My old g4 easily got 5 hours when it was new. That was 8 years ago. I'm not that impressed. My buddies G3 could take 2 batteries and go 10 hours. So the bug deal is?

str1f3

Jun 14, 2009, 12:23 AM

As much as I am stunned from the performance results of the battery, I am also surprised at how much a hit it takes with flash. As soon as I get the new MBP 15", I'm going to install click to flash. I can see why apple is so resistent to flash on the iPhone.

heisetax

Jun 14, 2009, 12:30 AM

these batteries need to be replaced much less than previous generations according to apple

And when you do need to I'm sure there will be plenty of easy to follow guides online.

Because the hardest part of changing a battery in an iPod/iPhone has been taking the case apart Apple is making that part easy with the last gen of Intel MacBook Pros. They have 10-12 screws to remove to change memory, hard drive, optical drive &/or non-user-replacable battery. The problem will more be whether a 3rd party will produce a suitable battery for replacement. With the iPod/iPhone history we know that Apple will not make batteries available.

Has anybody had the back off of their 13", 15" or 17" Mac laptop with the uncased battery. How hard does changing the battery look? Does Apple have a paper or other type of seal on the battery? As Apple claims not to waste space with this new battery, I would not think that thinks will be buried under some second cover.

winterspan

Jun 14, 2009, 01:01 AM

I don't know whether the excellent battery life has anything to do with this or not, but are all you 15" MacBook Pro users equally happy with a SATA connection speed of 1.5 Gbit?

ie: SATA I?
The 17" has SATA II - 3 Gbit.

Maybe the two things are connected, maybe not, but it's very worrying that this wonderful 'new' Apple is doing this, no?

IS THIS TRUE?? :eek::eek::eek:

This is a big deal for performance users as many MLC SSDs on the market can easily eclipse the 150MB* maximum that SATA I provides. The Intel X25M is far faster than SATAI, and even the outstanding 120GB OCZ Vertex ($325) can easily sustain 200-225MB/sec reads, and both SSDs and traditional harddrives can have short-lived, incredibly high burst speeds because they have ~16-128MB of DRAM cache.

What is the history of this issue? Have any recent Macbooks or Macbook Pros not used SATA II? Did Apple actually DOWNGRADE the 15" MB Pro to SATA I from SATA II?

Either way, that is absolutely pathetic for a $2000 "Pro" laptop to use SATA I and not be able to take full advantage of an SSD drive.

----------
*SATA I's signaling rate is 1.5Gbps, but it has 20% overhead from 8b/10b error correction, equaling 150MB/sec in max transfer rate.

heisetax

Jun 14, 2009, 01:45 AM

Maybe monetarily.

I think users like how simple it is to buy a new battery and pop it in themselves, as opposed to handing it over to a sales person for....and this is the other issue...does anyone know how long it takes to replace these? I had one rep tell me 'a few days' and another one at a different store say 'a few minutes'.

If you have to give up your computer for a few days to replace a battery that in the past has been a 2 minute ordeal on your desk, that isn't the same price, and it's ridiculous. However if it is true that they can be replaced in a matter of minutes at the store it seems reasonable, especially since they need to be replaced MUCH less often.

But my battery in my 17" PowerBook is nearly 5 years old now & still does a good job of holding its charge.

shadowmoses

Jun 14, 2009, 01:46 AM

I can confirm the battery is amazing easily get 6-8 hours (closer to 8) each time I have used it unplugged. Its a really nice luxury to have available and makes the MK2 Unibodies all the more desirable. Not to mention the overall build quality is superior....

ShadoW

Poirot818

Jun 14, 2009, 01:52 AM

IS THIS TRUE?? :eek::eek::eek:

This is a big deal for performance users as many MLC SSDs on the market can easily eclipse the 150MB* maximum that SATA I provides. The Intel X25M is far faster than SATAI, and even the outstanding 120GB OCZ Vertex ($325) can easily sustain 200-225MB/sec reads, and both SSDs and traditional harddrives can have short-lived, incredibly high burst speeds because they have ~16-128MB of DRAM cache.

What is the history of this issue? Have any recent Macbooks or Macbook Pros not used SATA II? Did Apple actually DOWNGRADE the 15" MB Pro to SATA I from SATA II?

Either way, that is absolutely pathetic for a $2000 "Pro" laptop to use SATA I and not be able to take full advantage of an SSD drive.

----------
*SATA I's signaling rate is 1.5Gbps, but it has 20% overhead from 8b/10b error correction, equaling 150MB/sec in max transfer rate.

It's definitely true. Whether it was intentional or not, or whether it's even fixable is up for debate, but all new MBPs so far (except for the 17") have a 1.5 Gbit/s SATA connection. We've submitted it to MacRumors and all other major tech sites but no one wants to run the story.

MacTheSpoon

Jun 14, 2009, 02:00 AM

These new batteries sound great, why aren't they using them in the iPhone??

NAG

Jun 14, 2009, 02:17 AM

Can we see more battery life in the Macbook Air line too, please? I love my air but the battery life is no where near that long. Oh well.

soLoredd

Jun 14, 2009, 02:20 AM

Sehnsucht

Jun 14, 2009, 02:35 AM

These new batteries sound great, why aren't they using them in the iPhone??

Har har har.

spillproof

Jun 14, 2009, 02:44 AM

Believe it or not, my power went out while reading this thread earlier so I decided to do my own "test".
Late 2008 Unibody MBP 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 250 GB HD @5400rpm, OS X 10.5.7.
Lowered the screen brightness to 50%,
Volume set to second tick mark in settings. Use built in speakers.
Dropped SMC FanControl speed to 2500rpm,
Bluetooth, Time machine, Spaces off, Wifi connected.
Quit all applications except Firefox beta 4 and iTunes.
iTunes played continuously and was hidden
Browsed and posted on MacRumor's forums using Forum Spy, searched and watched 4 3-5 minutes Youtube videos, and a few other websites.

Time start 10:43 pm; low battery warning 2:28am.
I got exactly 3 hours and 45 minutes with only 4% battery remaining.
Where is my other hour?:rolleyes: I think this is a very good result considering other notebooks.

Chase R

Jun 14, 2009, 02:50 AM

Mad Mac

Jun 14, 2009, 02:50 AM

Chase R

Jun 14, 2009, 02:56 AM

This is hilarious. 8 hours of "light" usage? Who the heck buys a Macbook "PRO" to lightly surf web pages without flash? Talk about tailoring a test to cast the MBP in a positive light. Also note that the MBP tested is essentially a 15" Macbook since it only has the integrated graphics. If anything, Apple should have added a 15" MB and kept the pro line intact with a removable battery and ExpressCard.

There's nothing stopping them from using the new battery technology AND keeping it removable. If you don't remove your battery or own a spare then it shouldn't bother you at all. But having it non-removable just screwed people that do need access.

So what happens when somebody is on location in the Grand Canyon/North Pole/rainforest/some place remote and cutting footage on FCP or doing something "pro" on site? How long will the battery last under moderately heavy usage? 2 hours? And what happens when it runs out and there's no outlet to plug into? You're dead in the water if you have a '09 MBP. Older gen MBP users can just swap in a new battery and keep on running.

So your mad that the new 15" MBP has the longest lasting battery in its class? Please show me a PC that does better. I smell Windoze fanboyism.

So what happens when somebody is on location in the Grand Canyon/North Pole/rainforest/some place remote and cutting footage on FCP or doing something "pro" on site? How long will the battery last under moderately heavy usage? 2 hours? And what happens when it runs out and there's no outlet to plug into? You're dead in the water if you have a '09 MBP. Older gen MBP users can just swap in a new battery and keep on running.

Your kidding me right? LOL thanks for the laugh.

MorphingDragon

Jun 14, 2009, 03:10 AM

TBH, it seems easier to keep an external pack charged than making sure each battery is charged at 100%. Also when you can get external packs that could probably have %200 more juice than a single battery at the same size.

MacLover4491

Jun 14, 2009, 03:11 AM

i have the new macbook pro with the built in battery but i only get 6hours with light usage. Where is the 8 hours?

Mad Mac

Jun 14, 2009, 03:19 AM

So your mad that the new 15" MBP has the longest lasting battery in its class? Please show me a PC that does better. I smell Windoze fanboyism.
How about I show you my early '08 MBP instead? We'll do some heavy photoshop or FCP and see who can last 6 hours without an outlet. I guarantee you that it won't be you with a '09 MBP. All I have to do is swap in a new battery whenever I run out of juice. You, on the other hand, will just be able to stare at yourself thru the 15" glare on the glossy screen. The only thing you're smelling is rotten apples.

MacinDoc

Jun 14, 2009, 03:31 AM

How about I show you my early '08 MBP instead? We'll do some heavy photoshop or FCP and see who can last 6 hours without an outlet. I guarantee you that it won't be you with a '09 MBP. All I have to do is swap in a new battery whenever I run out of juice. You, on the other hand, will just be able to stare at yourself thru the 15" glare on the glossy screen. The only thing you're smelling is rotten apples.
I think the point is that the '09 MBP lasts almost as long as the late '08 WITH a spare battery. You would have to have 2 fully charged spares to have a significantly longer running time with yours. And spare batteries tend to not hold their charges as well because they are not properly cycled most of the time.

Not to mention that polls on this subject in the past have shown that the vast majority of users don't even have a spare battery...

freddiecable

Jun 14, 2009, 03:35 AM

MBP 13" gets 4.4 hours:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348489,00.asp

peterdevries

Jun 14, 2009, 03:35 AM

How about I show you my early '08 MBP instead? We'll do some heavy photoshop or FCP and see who can last 6 hours without an outlet. I guarantee you that it won't be you with a '09 MBP. All I have to do is swap in a new battery whenever I run out of juice. You, on the other hand, will just be able to stare at yourself thru the 15" glare on the glossy screen. The only thing you're smelling is rotten apples.

ZZZZzzzzzzz..:rolleyes:

I have been working now for more than 10 years as a consultant in many different companies. I have yet to encounter a person who brings a spare battery for his laptop (or cellphone for that matter), and I'm surrounded with people with high performance laptops all the time. And no, we don't only sit in offices, but spend a lot of time in the field.

I would like to see some reliable numbers of people that carry a spare battery for work. I'm sure it will be somewhere close to the people that use the Expresscard port.

MorphingDragon

Jun 14, 2009, 03:39 AM

Imagine if you had a lecture of more than four hours!!!!
Poor 13" users!!!!

spillproof

Jun 14, 2009, 03:41 AM

You, on the other hand, will just be able to stare at yourself thru the 15" glare on the glossy screen.

But that already happens, even with power.

macshill

Jun 14, 2009, 03:52 AM

Yes, but Apple said these new batteries will last 5 years before it even starts to loose its life and that it will replace it for free (I doubt for free) at any Apple Store.

Then you might want my MacBook, because there is never anything protruding out of it except for the charging cord at night.

Not an "innie" but an "outie". ;):p

http://i39.tinypic.com/15mxxer.jpg

:apple:

iMaggot

Jun 14, 2009, 03:54 AM

8 hours is nice, but i still prefer the option to carry spare batteries.

MorphingDragon

Jun 14, 2009, 03:59 AM

8 hours is nice, but i still prefer the option to carry spare batteries.

None of you guys have seemed to explain why you cant just use an external battery and why they're bad!!!

macshill

Jun 14, 2009, 04:29 AM

I've been urging my wife to let me buy a new 13" MBP, but she says that we need the money for food and to pay the mortgage.

She has her priorities all wrong.

http://i42.tinypic.com/1054o4p.jpg

Oh, go on. You deserve it. :)

mrklaw

Jun 14, 2009, 04:34 AM

looking at the tech, and the teardowns, am I the only one thinking they didn't need to seal that thing in there? Feels like they chose to do that for other reasons

As for innovating, well it is impressive, but its just moving to a lipo battery rather than li-ion. You get more usable capacity due to its flat voltage curve, and you get more real capacity due to the flat cells.

But they could have done all that and still made it removable. Maybe they wouldn't have hit 8 hours, but they'd still be way more than the old MBP just by replacing li-ion with li-po

Kelmon

Jun 14, 2009, 04:34 AM

This is just to say "bloody hell!". I was expecting the battery life figures to be better with the new laptops but I wasn't actually expecting independent verification that Apple's claims were genuine (battery life specifications and reality tend to differ). All in all, it's very good news.

Now I just wish that Apple would finally offer the 15" MBP with an anti-glare screen option like the 17".

igazza

Jun 14, 2009, 04:36 AM

i just brought a new MBP 13

Freakin nice work apple

manu chao

Jun 14, 2009, 04:54 AM

Sure - the case is sealed - crack the case, void your warranty. The battery in the iPhone isn't soldered in, either, but I have *YET* to see one that has been opened up that you cannot see through inspection has been opened up - unless it has been SENT AWAY to Apple where they have the *magic* tools to do so
If the battery lasts three to five years, you will be out of warranty when you change the battery anyway.

kennethsteven

Jun 14, 2009, 05:44 AM

wow i never would have guessed they would change the unibody design after the initial release. Still happy to have a perfect laptop though.

Guess I have at least 7 hours of battery life to look forward to with my next purchase (probably in 2012).

I am thinking about ordering the refurbished version of the 15" 2.53 320 4GB 512 Video Macbook Pro. It is on sale for $650 less than the new mid-level MBP. Would you (or anyone) recommend this? Or would it be better to go with the newest version? I think I would miss the Express34 slot, maybe. What is the battery life like on the older 2.53? Any advice anyone? I have a friend that if offering me $800 for my 2.2 Santa Rosa MBP, fair price?

Thanks!

Veri

Jun 14, 2009, 05:46 AM

Because 10% of the computer market is greater than 1% of the 10%. :rolleyes:
Dude, specious accounting. (1) No-one suggested that it's only Apple users who want replaceable batteries; (2) Those who want replaceable batteries are implicitly less likely to be Apple laptop users, though they may yearn for OS X.

Which is valid. The next question would be how many have 3 batteries. Because 2 batteries are going to largely be solved by the current better batteries.
Confirmed 50% extra capacity on light load (don't assume runtime is inversely proportional to load - consider heat effects etc.) during the first few days of ownership does not equate by any means to 2 batteries, each of which can be kept fairly "new" because of the lack of hassle and security risk of having to find a suitable time/place to give your equipment to a third party for a few hours/days. People who are technically competent and live in metropolitan California are not the worldwide user.

And then would you be better with an external power system that should give you DRAMATIC amounts of extra power, and is easier to manage than an extra battery.
So let's take a typical commuter scenario, the crowded train. Currently, it's click; slide; slide; click to replace the battery. With your li'l scheme we are clearing an extra space *somewhere* for an external battery pack (sure, we could run the battery pack inside an insulated case/backpack, but that's just going to give it an early death) and running a wire to it. Do I really want to be "that guy with the Mac who annoys everyone he's sitting next to by dangling bits everywhere and getting in people's way?" Oh, the train's stopped quickly, it's slipped onto the floor. Excuse me, can I just get that? It's my laptop thingy, I can't replace the battery. Let me just untangle that from your leg. It's a Macbook Pro, I'm sure you'll understand.

I have been working now for more than 10 years as a consultant in many different companies. I have yet to encounter a person who brings a spare battery for his laptop (or cellphone for that matter), and I'm surrounded with people with high performance laptops all the time. And no, we don't only sit in offices, but spend a lot of time in the field.
7-10 years ago, "performance" laptop battery life was awful (and even the average machine was fairly bad). It sounds like you've been working around people who mostly use powerful laptops as desktop replacements, because you're effectively saying that no-one you'd met had needed to use their laptop for more than 2-3 hours on battery.

Jayomat

Jun 14, 2009, 05:54 AM

This is well illustrating the problem. Most parts in a laptop, treated well and past the first few months, will last for years: indeed, it's very rare for me to find my equipment failing in between years 2 and 6 of usage, with the exception of moving parts (rarely) and (always) the battery. They seem to have wildly different longevities even when supposedly the same part. You might have a very similar usage pattern to your neighbour, but slight differences in ambient temperature or manufacture of battery will make a huge difference to lifespan.

i'll count me as a lucky guy ;) although if there is a problem at the manufactoring process, apple really should think about a solution. with so many people experiencing great differences in battery life, the battery does not *fully* contribute to a positive opinion about apple's battery tech. it shouldn't be the case that one person gets 2hrs productivity with 300 charges, while i get 3-4 hrs (using eclipse, browsing, several other programms in the background, not active though) with 586 charges...

That would be outstanding - at that rate I don't see how it could drop to 80% capacity in another 1500 cycles. Have you ever opened the battery compartment? May be you will find Apple sneaked in a R&D prototype there - future batteries are supposed to last long enough to serve a person his/her lifetime ;)

Apple Says 80% at 300 cycles (http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html)

yes, once to swap my HD. never did it again though. honestly i have no idea why the battery lasts that long. maybe i just took "good care", let it charge completely and then used it with out plugging it in untill it went off by itself. did 100 calibration without even knowing what calibration is good for...
as you see i have no idea, but im happy the way it is ;)

thisisfed

Jun 14, 2009, 05:57 AM

the 15" 2.8 Ghz is on its way to my home, finally!

MorphingDragon

Jun 14, 2009, 06:08 AM

So let's take a typical commuter scenario, the crowded train. Currently, it's click; slide; slide; click to replace the battery. With your li'l scheme we are clearing an extra space *somewhere* for an external battery pack (sure, we could run the battery pack inside an insulated case/backpack, but that's just going to give it an early death) and running a wire to it. Do I really want to be "that guy with the Mac who annoys everyone he's sitting next to by dangling bits everywhere and getting in people's way?" Oh, the train's stopped quickly, it's slipped onto the floor. Excuse me, can I just get that? It's my laptop thingy, I can't replace the battery. Let me just untangle that from your leg. It's a Macbook Pro, I'm sure you'll understand.

Then you'd have to be the only person stupid enough that I know to take a MacBook Pro onto a train.
Anyway Ive seen batteries that clip onto the bottom.

bobbleheadbob

Jun 14, 2009, 06:43 AM

Just bought the new base model 15" MBP for my wife last night. While she's pissed I spent the money on it, I know she's going to love it once she starts to use it. :p

Jayomat

Jun 14, 2009, 06:54 AM

Then you'd have to be the only person stupid enough that I know to take a MacBook Pro onto a train.
Anyway Ive seen batteries that clip onto the bottom.

:confused: i use my macbook (which is now called macbookpro. yes it's not unibody, but back in the days it was expensive enough!) regularly to work on something while going by train. what's so stupid about efficient timemanagement? instead of just sitting in my seat doing nothing or listening to music, i can actually work, which is going to save me a lot of time afterwards.

Speedy2

Jun 14, 2009, 07:31 AM

100% wrong. Just common sense.

Oh how I love those self-righteous "I know everything better" people.

Why don't you just read the referenced article, before you turn yourself into an object of ridicule?

Speedy2

Jun 14, 2009, 07:32 AM

That's OK Arn, I'll standby my opinion. You have yours and I have mine. To me it's dumb due to all the variables and difference usages from various people.

Different strokes for different folks!

Again: Read the article. You will find everything explained and actually even more scenarios there. Dumb is who does not do read.

Speedy2

Jun 14, 2009, 07:35 AM

I've tried and failed -you cannot get more than 3hrs. Apple lies when they say 5 hr - they have invented a good way to get away with it ;)

Then Anand must also lie.
Or ... you could read the article and find out about that 8-hour figure and the usage pattern and other scenarios and and and

Veri

Jun 14, 2009, 07:35 AM

Then you'd have to be the only person stupid enough that I know to take a MacBook Pro onto a train.
My dear, it is a laptop, not an evening dress.

iPhoneNYC

Jun 14, 2009, 07:39 AM

8 hours sounds pretty good to me. With the very first powerbooks I carried a second battery because the effective usage time was about two hours. Since then very few do. I would imagine just the use of use makes it a drag to carr extra stuff. Also seems easier to plug in somewhere now as coffee shops, airports, etc expect their patrons to plug in. So I guess I'm saying its no biggy for me and I welcome more use time.

Evangelion

Jun 14, 2009, 07:44 AM

Yes, the new MBP has a great battery life. But here is a scenario I am often confronted with:

You and lots of others are making the basic mistake here when it comes to the idea of replaceable batteries. Replaceable batteries are a means to an end, not the end of means. You are so gung-ho about having replaceable batteries that you forget the reason you want to replace the batteries in the first place!

Replaceable batteries are a means to an end, not the end of means. You want to replace batteries in your laptop because you want more battery-power from the laptop. But fact is that you can achieve that goal (more battery-power) through other means besides replacing batteries. One way is to have longer-lasting batteries (that's what Apple provides you with). The other way is to have external battery-pack.

So why are you constantly staring at whether it is possible to replace the batteries or not, when you should be staring that whether it's possible to increase the battery-life of the laptop? Carrying spare batteries is only one way of getting more battery-life from your laptop, but it's NOT the only way!

I'm seriously amazed that so many people fail to understand this basic thing... No, you can't replace the battery on the new Macbook, but you CAN use alternative methods to get more battery-life from the machine.

I honestly don't understand what the problem is.... Why are you only staring at replaceable batteries, instead of looking at alternative means of getting same results? The results (more battery-life) are the important thing, not the means (replaceable batteries, external battery-packs, longer-lasting batteries)....

marcosscriven

Jun 14, 2009, 07:56 AM

Evangelion

Jun 14, 2009, 08:49 AM

You win the prize for the most waffley and laboured point ever.

Maybe this needs lots of effort and labour? Lots of people are shouting "we need to be able to replace batteries!" when they should be shouting "we need to get more battery-life out of the laptop!". They are confusing means with the ends.

No, carrying external batteries is not any more inconvenient than carrying spare batteries is.

turkay

Jun 14, 2009, 09:31 AM

AidenShaw

Jun 14, 2009, 09:35 AM

Either way, that is absolutely pathetic for a $2000 "Pro" laptop to use SATA I and not be able to take full advantage of an SSD drive.

I'd apply the "pathetic" comment to the lack of eSATA as well....
__________

On the question of the user-swappable battery, if Apple had an external battery pack designed by Ives, then I'd think that everyone should be happy. (Or at least Apple could sell something like the external pack mentioned above in the Apple stores.)

If the battery life is really as good as Apple claims (both for runtime, and number of charges before replacement), then very few people should have an issue with the internal battery. (I'll assume that Apple will sell the battery itself to DIY'ers who don't have a convenient genius bar nearby.)

However, no matter how long the battery runtime is - there will be people whose business or pleasure keeps them away from a power outlet for longer than that time. Currently these people swap batteries - they need to switch to carrying an external(s) instead. Stop complaining about the "need to swap batteries" when the real problem of extended runtime can be solved by external batteries.

(I have one of the APC externals, on long days I keep it in my bag, and run the cord to the laptop. I've had some strange looks when people see the power cord in my laptop, when I'm obviously nowhere close to an outlet.)

blackhand1001

Jun 14, 2009, 09:41 AM

I don't know how accurate these are. The 17 inch got around 8 as ell. But as soon as you played a movie it didn't even finish it and it was only a bit more than 2 hours.

parapup

Jun 14, 2009, 09:50 AM

Then Anand must also lie.
Or ... you could read the article and find out about that 8-hour figure and the usage pattern and other scenarios and and and

I read the article - you missed out reading my previous posts :) The poster was asking how to get 5 hours on 2007 MBP - I know for sure you can't. With the better battery on the 2009 models, when Anand gets 8hrs you can hope for 5hrs - that was my point. (Earlier models Anand got 5hrs so you hoped for 3).

tmoney468

Jun 14, 2009, 10:24 AM

This is hilarious. 8 hours of "light" usage? Who the heck buys a Macbook "PRO" to lightly surf web pages without flash? Talk about tailoring a test to cast the MBP in a positive light. Also note that the MBP tested is essentially a 15" Macbook since it only has the integrated graphics. If anything, Apple should have added a 15" MB and kept the pro line intact with a removable battery and ExpressCard.

There's nothing stopping them from using the new battery technology AND keeping it removable. If you don't remove your battery or own a spare then it shouldn't bother you at all. But having it non-removable just screwed people that do need access.

So what happens when somebody is on location in the Grand Canyon/North Pole/rainforest/some place remote and cutting footage on FCP or doing something "pro" on site? How long will the battery last under moderately heavy usage? 2 hours? And what happens when it runs out and there's no outlet to plug into? You're dead in the water if you have a '09 MBP. Older gen MBP users can just swap in a new battery and keep on running.

Did you actually read the article on Anandtech, or just glance at the summary here at Macrumors?

If you had taken a minute or two, you would have seen that he also tested other scenarios as well, including heavy usage.

bluedevil14

Jun 14, 2009, 10:59 AM

...but is Arrandale going to be that big a deal that it's advisable to wait til Q4 2010? I need a new laptop for college in August, but they said "it didn’t make any sense" to buy a new laptop now.

Mad Mac

Jun 14, 2009, 11:03 AM

Did you actually read the article on Anandtech, or just glance at the summary here at Macrumors?

If you had taken a minute or two, you would have seen that he also tested other scenarios as well, including heavy usage.

If you had taken a minute or two to actually read it, you'd see that he said, and I quote:

I found that CPU utilization varied from 5 - 35% during this test, which is about what I saw when I was actually surfing the web myself. The addition of Flash should make it more stressful, but it's still a fairly light usage test. My original web browsing test got us 8 hours, so what about this new one? Six and a half hours.

lag1090

Jun 14, 2009, 11:17 AM

The replacement service is the same price of a new battery today, IIRC.

The only issue is that it's more of an inconvenience to get the battery replaced. Rather than doing a quick swap-out with a removable battery, the bottom casing must be removed.

While the replacement isn't too involved, it still requires more effort than a removable battery to switch.

iamPro

Jun 14, 2009, 11:40 AM

I've been reading about the debate over what defines light usage.

However, like I've been constantly saying,

My battery indicator on my 2 month old rarely used new MBP 15" says 3hrs or occasionally a little more the instant I turn on the computer.

I assume, if I just leave it on without any web surfing, no applications running, with sleep-mode off, I'll only get 3hrs of battery life.

(screen is on at medium to low brightness. same for the keyboard backlight. the only battery concern perhaps is wifi being on)

To me, the "light usage" from the test is nearly impossible to replicate.

iMacmatician

Jun 14, 2009, 11:45 AM

...but is Arrandale going to be that big a deal that it's advisable to wait til Q4 2010? I need a new laptop for college in August, but they said "it didn’t make any sense" to buy a new laptop now.Arrandale gives 10% more performance than Core 2 on the SuperPi benchmark. Note that the CPU won't be the only component upgraded in the next revision.

raybo

Jun 14, 2009, 11:55 AM

Apple knows how people use their laptops. They solved the problem of folks who need to work most of the day on battery by making the battery last long enough to get through a day. Most people aren't glued to their laptop working for more than 6 hours in a day without some access to AC.

Those with no access to AC who have to work all day on their laptop for multiple days (or those who work more than 6 hours a day on their laptop) need to carry additional batteries - in the case of the new MBPs, the type of battery is an external battery pack. People in this situation are already carrying 1 or 2 additional batteries. The number of people in this situation is mighty small.

Ray

devman

Jun 14, 2009, 12:06 PM

Why is the new 15" so much better than the unibody 17" with supposedly the same non-removable battery?

um, that extra huge screen that doesn't have enough of an extra huge battery to compensate relative to the 15.

DELLsFan

Jun 14, 2009, 12:08 PM

mixel

Jun 14, 2009, 12:12 PM

Is everyone who's stating their early "old" unibody MBP battery experiences remembering to switch to the 9400m first? .. I seem to get 4 hrs use, which is more than enough for me personally. I don't tend to be away from sockets for very long.. :)

Having 6hrs or more would sometimes be nice though, just in case..!

Jayomat

Jun 14, 2009, 12:20 PM

Battery life enhancement is a good thing. Personally, I tend to keep my laptops plugged in while using them, though. So, while nice ... the enhanced battery life on the new models just wouldn't affect me very much.

if you never use your laptop where you cannot plug it in, why do you even have one? i know it's convenient to sit on your couch and surf the web, or, of course, have it plugged in at work/university, but working apart from electrical supply or on the go was the original idea behind laptops, or am i wrong?

Jimmy James

Jun 14, 2009, 12:29 PM

if you never use your laptop where you cannot plug it in, why do you even have one? i know it's convenient to sit on your couch and surf the web, or, of course, have it plugged in at work/university, but working apart from electrical supply or on the go was the original idea behind laptops, or am i wrong?

Portability and electrical outlet access are not the same issue.

I need a portable computer. At the library and at my office. I plug it in at these locations.

So you're saying I may as well bring a desktop box, monitor and input devices with me to these locations every day because they have electrical outlets? Or are you saying I shouldn't plug in my laptop just because I'm enabled to do so?

Yavanna

Jun 14, 2009, 12:32 PM

I think it's great apple:), but They should make an external battery that has a cord with a magcharger on the end... that would take away all these tears that I keep hearing:rolleyes:

First Post! Have been watching for a long time, and finlly registered.

I just recently found this device that seems to solve some of the problems many are having with the non-changeable battery. Here:

http://www.hyperdrive.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MBP%2D060

Pricey, but useful.

bit density

Jun 14, 2009, 12:45 PM

[CODE]

So let's take a typical commuter scenario, the crowded train. Currently, it's click; slide; slide; click to replace the battery. With your li'l scheme we are clearing an extra space *somewhere* for an external battery pack (sure, we could run the battery pack inside an insulated case/backpack, but that's just going to give it an early death) and running a wire to it. Do I really want to be "that guy with the Mac who annoys everyone he's sitting next to by dangling bits everywhere and getting in people's way?" Oh, the train's stopped quickly, it's slipped onto the floor. Excuse me, can I just get that? It's my laptop thingy, I can't replace the battery. Let me just untangle that from your leg. It's a Macbook Pro, I'm sure you'll understand.

Lets take this "typical commuter scenario" where you have this 5 hour batterie that you need to change???

Go ahead take it.

The vast majority of users will make it through this train ride BECAUSE of the battery.

I do not want a lesser computer because of this really really big typical problem of yours.

How LONG is this crowded train ride?????

You are really, really stretching the credulity of your problem. It would sit in the same pocket as your "extra battery", it could sit anywhere, even next to you on your seat or even in your bag, because you, know, it will probably take a month of the 5 year battery life.

Sheesh.

No, it is better that the battery lasts longer for the other 99.999999 that don't have you bizarre "typical" needs.

tmoney468

Jun 14, 2009, 12:48 PM

If you had taken a minute or two to actually read it, you'd see that he said, and I quote:

I found that CPU utilization varied from 5 - 35% during this test, which is about what I saw when I was actually surfing the web myself. The addition of Flash should make it more stressful, but it's still a fairly light usage test. My original web browsing test got us 8 hours, so what about this new one? Six and a half hours.

And again, did you read the entire article? Directly below the test you quote, there's a "Heavy downloading + Xvid + Web" test.

This is my heavy workload benchmark.

For this benchmark I'm downloading 10GB worth of files from the net (constant writes to the drive), browsing the web (same test as the first one) and watching the first two episodes of Firefly encoded in a 480p XviD format (Quicktime is set to loop the content until the system dies).

The older MacBook Pro managed 3.25 hours in this test. The new one? Just under 5

That seems like a pretty heavy workload test to me. :confused:

redkamel

Jun 14, 2009, 12:56 PM

a) If you can't find an apple store near home, its not hard to swap the battery at home. All you need is a screwdriver, and a new battery. By the time you need to replace, your warranty will be expired anyways...3 yrs is far shorter than the 5 yr they are claiming, so I think the new ones should make it at least 2.5 yrs. So there goes the "I can't replace it, its hard!" argument.

b) if you need a swappable on the street battery, well that sucks. I have never even met person who does that. And I am in my late 20s, work in a professional field in an affluent area and do photography on the side. So: lots of macs, lots of pros in 2 fields. No one is swapping. Thus I feel confident in saying MOST people do not swap, and the extended battery life is a boon for them, since they need to find an outlet less often during the day, or may not have to sit near the wall during a meeting or lecture. Honestly, apple did what is best for the majority of its customers here.

c) if you absolutely need a swappable pack, get an external battery. You would already be carrying around another battery anyways. An inconcenience, I admit. Someone brought up the point of them working in areas where there are NO outlets, multiple days, and they cant use the power source their partner is using (ironically, likely external batteries), and they are getting a few hours of life with no swap, doing FCP in the amazon, and it needs to be done on the spot. Now that is not my field, but maybe they can enlighten me as to why a powerpack is absolutely unacceptable. I would imagine since its a laptop, you are sitting and working on a stump, unlike a camera, which needs an internal battery at all times because its moving around and traveling WHILE its working. I am not being intentionally sarcastic or p/a or anything.

On an aside, the sata downgrade, if real, is BS. That sucks. eSATA should be in the pros. And I assume this battery life upgrade is the real deal too

d) Since I am just going, the next laptop from apple thats going to get me to buy is: blu ray, USB 3.0, and nice cheap SSDs. Guess I wont be buying one for a year or 2. Or never, if they bug out on blu-ray. BTW not interested in a blu-ray argument here, Ive already been over that.

Jayomat

Jun 14, 2009, 01:03 PM

Portability and electrical outlet access are not the same issue.

I need a portable computer. At the library and at my office. I plug it in at these locations.

So you're saying I may as well bring a desktop box, monitor and input devices with me to these locations every day because they have electrical outlets? Or are you saying I shouldn't plug in my laptop just because I'm enabled to do so?

:) nah, of course not. you're right.

in fact, i was just wondering. when im at the library, i plug in my laptop too. but i also work in the train, at lecture halls without electrical outlets, or just "outside" if the weather allows it.
he said it just doesn't affect him. i guess my laptop-use habits are just different. I would be so glad if my laptop battery lasts for a whole day at universitity, releasing me from the need of carring the charger with me all day.

never mind :)

Stevamundo

Jun 14, 2009, 01:12 PM

How about I show you my early '08 MBP instead? We'll do some heavy photoshop or FCP and see who can last 6 hours without an outlet. I guarantee you that it won't be you with a '09 MBP. All I have to do is swap in a new battery whenever I run out of juice. You, on the other hand, will just be able to stare at yourself thru the 15" glare on the glossy screen. The only thing you're smelling is rotten apples.

I swear that some people like to bitch for the sake of bitching.

It has already been said over and over again in this thread use this: http://www.batterygeek.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=78

I'm sure this batteries will work on the unibodies too. Besides this solution is actually better than exchanging your internal batteries all of the time.

imacdaddy

Jun 14, 2009, 01:20 PM

I honestly don't understand what the problem is.... Why are you only staring at replaceable batteries, instead of looking at alternative means of getting same results? The results (more battery-life) are the important thing, not the means (replaceable batteries, external battery-packs, longer-lasting batteries)....

Agreed 100%. Old mindset and not accepting change = stubbornness.

Old mindset. Main battery lasts 3 hours + replaceable spare battery 3 hours = 6 hours.

New MBP with new battery technology = +6 hours (under a single charge, less spare battery).

Old mindset. Replace battery every 18 months = extra $$$ (x2 for spare)

New MBP with new battery technology = replace in 3-4 years (4x savings)

i.mac

Jun 14, 2009, 02:00 PM

Agreed 100%. Old mindset and not accepting change = stubbornness.

Old mindset. Main battery lasts 3 hours + replaceable spare battery 3 hours = 6 hours.

New MBP with new battery technology = +6 hours (under a single charge, less spare battery).

Old mindset. Replace battery every 18 months = extra $$$ (x2 for spare)

New MBP with new battery technology = replace in 3-4 years (4x savings)

I like (and agree with) your entry! :) Very cleverly put.

I wonder how many other laptop manufacturers are thinking "I should have thought of that..." It takes apple to bring about a paradigm shift, and it takes apple to show every one else the way forward. It is too early to tell, but it may be that spare batteries may become a thing of the past.

In about 20 years, I can hear my son asking me: "...did you have to have a spare battery for the what-you-call-it, laptop thingy...? Really? Who was the one that thought of not doing that?" To what I wil answer... "ok son, once upon the time, this company that we know today as apple..."

dscuber9000

Jun 14, 2009, 02:16 PM

I'm on my new 13" MacBook Pro right now, and at the lowest brightness setting I'm getting close to 8 hours. Really is amazing. :)

Hattig

Jun 14, 2009, 02:34 PM

I still don't understand the people WHINING and BITCHING about integrated batteries with 3x longer lifespans and 50% longer per-charge times.

I thought I had seen external magsafe battery packs, which don't even require you to power-off your laptop to switch. If you are carrying the spare battery around anyway, then what's the issue? Seriously.

Stevamundo

Jun 14, 2009, 02:35 PM

Unprocessed1

Jun 14, 2009, 02:39 PM

My 15" MBP only takes 1.5 hours to fully recharge, and so far I've been getting a solid 6 hours, on near max brightness. :)

Colrath

Jun 14, 2009, 03:25 PM

http://www.hyperdrive.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MBP%2D060

This product kind of hits the nail on the head for anyone who really needs that extra battery life. This is just as good as an external battery, if not better.

Maybe Apple could throw something like this on the market themselves to get the point across.

I might pick one of these up, considering it will work with both my older MBP and my new MBP I'll be picking up in about a month or so. I like dual purpose.

FF_productions

Jun 14, 2009, 03:27 PM

I'm ultra-conservative when it comes to battery life, I wonder what's the best they can push it...Example being, one or 2 apps open, NO wireles, and 1 bar o brightness.

Anybody that owns these new macbook pros, how much brighter is it than the powerbook g4? I had the first generation macbook pro and it was at least twice and bright as the powerbook back then, I wonder how many more leaps ahead these LED generation displays are...

FF_productions

Jun 14, 2009, 03:28 PM

http://www.hyperdrive.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MBP%2D060

This product kind of hits the nail on the head for anyone who really needs that extra battery life. This is just as good as an external battery, if not better.

Yeah that should eliminate all complaints, what a perfect accessory for the road warrior.

cameronjpu

Jun 14, 2009, 03:28 PM

Well, you are wrong and missing the point. It must not that hard to guess "almost" all MBP owners don't use their notebooks for "very very" light web browsing.

I don't get it - surely almost everyone uses their computer for "light" functions - browsing the web, answering email, working in Word or Excel. Just because these are "pro" machines doesn't mean that people with the extra money don't buy them to use them just as they would use a cheaper computer.

Veri

Jun 14, 2009, 03:43 PM

The vast majority of users will make it through this train ride BECAUSE of the battery.
Is this in the morning or after a day working mobile? Let's see, typical commuter day: 1.5 hours on the train, 8 hours at work, 1.5 hours on the train. That's pretty much one new MBP battery on minimal load, counting for a couple of hours downtime, or - without problem - a couple of average batteries.

You are really, really stretching the credulity of your problem. It would sit in the same pocket as your "extra battery", it could sit anywhere, even next to you on your seat or even in your bag, because you, know, it will probably take a month of the 5 year battery life.
Actually, I'd probably have my bag on the shelf above me, so it wouldn't sit there. As for a cord dangling out from my laptop and into a box sitting next to me on a crowded train, are you having a laugh?

No, it is better that the battery lasts longer for the other 99.999999 that don't have you bizarre "typical" needs.
A quick glance through this forum suggests that my needs are not [wildly] atypical. A macpolls poll suggests [see previous arn post] about 10% have and use a second battery, to give the first vaguely non-anecdotal figure.

Hattig

Jun 14, 2009, 03:59 PM

Is this in the morning or after a day working mobile? Let's see, typical commuter day: 1.5 hours on the train, 8 hours at work, 1.5 hours on the train.

I'm sorry your workplace is so short on money they don't get an electricity supply. Do you work on wooden trestle tables too?

I've seen people in this thread taking things to the ridiculous extremes - frequent 8 hour train commutes for example. I might suggest to that person that moving house would be a prudent option. I'd probably just steal some power from the train anyway - they have a few standard power sockets even in standard class. Airplanes have power sockets too.

So let's say you become a hermit and decide to live in a tree house without power ... well, you could extend your battery life by turning off wireless I guess. Might be time to invest in a decent solar panel and inverter in this situation. Maybe your spacecraft crash landed 5 hours away from Earth, and you need the computer to stay alive long enough to receive a response to your mayday call!

peterdevries

Jun 14, 2009, 04:04 PM

A quick glance through this forum suggests that my needs are not [wildly] atypical. A macpolls poll suggests [see previous arn post] about 10% have and use a second battery, to give the first vaguely non-anecdotal figure.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the crowd here doesn't really represent the typical Apple user.

You can be sure Apple did some research into the amount of people that use an extra battery before they make a decision into going non-removable. It's quite easy for them. They just have to count the amount of batteries they sell, and compare this to the amount of laptops that are sold.. I'm sure this was even easier than determining whether the expressport should be killed.

The demand for a removable battery is nowadays not anymore a typical one. The fast majority of people use their laptops at home, at school, at work where there are sockets. You can debate whether a Pro machine should have this "feature", but debating doesn't really help with Apple. You have become an insignificant minority to Apple, asking for a tech that they don't support anymore. The fact that the machine has become more simple, user-friendly etc will probably attract more new customers, than it will scare away existing ones. The number that does leave Apple for another manufacturer will be insignificant to the number of new customers that will likely lap this thing up. Just scroll back in these pages and count the number of people that bought a new laptop and count the number that said that they will never buy an Apple product again...

Veri

Jun 14, 2009, 04:38 PM

I'm sorry your workplace is so short on money they don't get an electricity supply. Do you work on wooden trestle tables too?
Consider "a day working mobile" - visiting customer sites / events / whatever. On a nice day, perhaps even doing some work in the park below the office. Not everyone is chained to the same desk 8/5. I'm sorry your workplace doesn't let you out much :D.

I'd probably just steal some power from the train anyway - they have a few standard power sockets even in standard class.
Thinking about the trains I often use, there are maybe 4 power sockets in each carriage in standard class and they're clearly marked "NOT FOR PUBLIC USE". They're installed underneath the emergency intercom system. Call me an altruistic fool, but I'm betting they're there for more important things than your or my laptops.

It's quite easy for them. They just have to count the amount of batteries they sell, and compare this to the amount of laptops that are sold.
So what you're saying is that Apple looked at the people it already sells lots of equipment to - campus undergrads, mostly - and found that it's catering for their needs without their needing to buy extra stuff. Annoyed that its equipment might also be versatile enough to cater to other groups, it presses on with the same angry mantra Jobs has had since the mid '80s of reducing expandability (remember his attitude toward expansion slots in the original Mac?). Preserve 90% of your market and reduce the incentive to keep an existing machine as much as possible. It makes business sense if that's the game you want to play, but it does not impress enterprise, which is why there are so few Macs in enterprise.

Hattig

Jun 14, 2009, 04:56 PM

Consider "a day working mobile" - visiting customer sites / events / whatever. On a nice day, perhaps even doing some work in the park below the office. Not everyone is chained to the same desk 8/5. I'm sorry your workplace doesn't let you out much :D.

I'm sure there are in-car charging adaptors (are there?). You have a point when the battery life is 4 hours, but 6 hours plus... with external battery packs available if you need more (as in working eight hours non-stop in the park).

Extending battery life beyond a certain point kills off the need for 80% of second battery users to buy their second battery. 8 hours is enough for a plane journey, given you'll have a meal, a sleep, and so on. I'd have to be seriously behind my work to work through an entire flight! Even with a film. The new MBP gets more battery life from a single battery than older models got with a second battery (and a reboot cycle). People might have issues getting over the fact they don't now need a second battery, as it has become such a comfort zone.

Thinking about the trains I often use, there are maybe 4 power sockets in each carriage in standard class and they're clearly marked "NOT FOR PUBLIC USE". They're installed underneath the emergency intercom system. Call me an altruistic fool, but I'm betting they're there for more important things than your or my laptops.

They're for the cleaners' vacuum cleaners. Some train services in the UK allow people to use them, and in first class each table has a couple of sockets specifically for customer use.

peterdevries

Jun 14, 2009, 05:02 PM

So what you're saying is that Apple looked at the people it already sells lots of equipment to - campus undergrads, mostly - and found that it's catering for their needs without their needing to buy extra stuff. Annoyed that its equipment might also be versatile enough to cater to other groups, it presses on with the same angry mantra Jobs has had since the mid '80s of reducing expandability (remember his attitude toward expansion slots in the original Mac?). Preserve 90% of your market and reduce the incentive to keep an existing machine as much as possible. It makes business sense if that's the game you want to play, but it does not impress enterprise, which is why there are so few Macs in enterprise.

What the logic is behind most of Apple's choices is anyones (except Job's) guess. But even if you take enterprise into account, there is not a large group that needs replaceable batteries. I work as a consultant and we walk around with our laptops all day, but none of my colleagues use extra batteries. I'm not denying that there are professions that need them, but this group is most likely just too small.