After extensive testing, I couldn't determine what is causing the lines on the MBA!

[Scottsdale]

I am editing the original posting with all of the results being inconclusive. I couldn't understand any reason why the displays are showing lines.

The remainder of this thread has a bunch of ideas but nothing proved accurate.

The one hypothesis that I didn't fully test or research was the layers on the display. These clear coat type film layers are said to be the culprit by some, but I disagree.

I do believe it stems from power, but I cannot prove anything!


Good luck to anyone who could figure this out. I spent a lot of time and money on it myself with no real further understanding.

[Regaj]

Quite a project you're undertaking there, Scottsdale! I applaud your curiosity and your commitment to the MBA community.

I will observe that some of the angst around the lines issue seems a bit overdone. Worrying because one can see the lines from 4" - a bit of contortionist behavior that's not part of normal use - seems to speak as much to user OCD as it does to any engineering decisions Apple made.

What I'm suggesting is that folks discriminate between significant defects which materially affect their use of something; versus defects which are rarely or never seen in normal use.

There are no perfect laptops. They all exhibit some number of issues. But the vast majority fall within the design and manufacturing tolerances spec'd by the maker.

As you note, the lines issue probably is unnoticeable to the vast majority of MBA buyers. Apple sells tens of thousands of these things. That would suggest that most owners are happy. Forums like this one tend to be frequented by a very tiny subset of knowledgeable, committed, obsessive, anal, pay-attention-to-the-tiniest-detail individuals (take your pick). We certainly don't represent the overall customer demographic that Apple is seeking to sell to.

In any case, I'm simply arguing for a bit of perspective. That's easy for me to say, of course, given that my brand new MBA appears perfectly fine!

Best of luck with your adventure.

[Scottsdale]

I will observe that some of the angst around the lines issue seems a bit overdone. Worrying because one can see the lines from 4" - a bit of contortionist behavior that's not part of normal use - seems to speak as much to user OCD as it does to any engineering decisions Apple made.



I was not passionate at all with the line issue on the rev B MBA. Quite frankly, the first seven rev B MBAs I saw were all line-free... including MINE. I bought a rev B MBA with 1.86 and SSD, and the display was the same high quality display I remembered from the original MBA. I looked at six others (maybe seven) before buying mine as the issue was on the boards. I didn't see any lines from 2" or 2' or more... not from angles... not from different colors.

The problem is, the line issue has progressively worsened. NOW, when I walk into an Apple Store, like Friday, I can spot the lines instantly on HALF of the MBAs I see from 2' or normal viewing distance. Most are reporting more than slight or moderate lines. More people than ever are seeing the lines too. The thing is, I think the 9C9A was sometimes very slightly affected... but for some reason 9C90 was reported often as the most problematic display in the rev B MBA.

Here's the thing, once you see the lines on your own MBA, it's extremely frustrating. Because once you see them on your own MBA, it's ALL YOU SEE. It's like a dead pixel that you cannot stop looking at, only it covers the entire display.

Now, if this problem were minor, I would let it go... but since it has affected so many units, I want to fix it. Let's just try to figure this one out is my theory. Apple isn't going to do it or is thinking too much or something. I really think it's either a firmware fix, which someone pointed out, which would mean the display probably isn't getting enough power... OR, it's a simple fix of something overlooked. Why it's affecting a higher percentage of one display over another does concern and perplex me, but I want to check the simple and obvious first.

I am glued to my MBA eight to twelve hours per day (on workdays). I also use it as my primary Mac and personal machine. I want it to look right. HOWEVER, I know I am being a little obsessive with my new MBA. Quite honestly, the lines aren't viewable from NORMAL VIEWING DISTANCE. So, I should be fine with it. But, I know they're there, and I want them gone. NOT LIKE I AM SPENDING $100k to fix them... but I am trying to do good for ALL of those who want an MBA but cannot pull the trigger because of these stupid lines. I used to think people were blowing it out of proportion because I couldn't see the lines from normal viewing distance... BUT, lately that has all changed as I have seen MANY affected displays in the new MBAs. It's extremely disappointing, and I want to see if it can be fixed with a few extra hours of my time, and a few hundred bills from my pocket, MAX.

So, I plan to figure out all of the power, wires, and identify everything going from the logic board to the computer. Then, I will have this electrical engineer guy I know (who does electrical/computer stuff for an aerospace company) go over my findings. I will show him all of the interior parts and hopefully the differences between a display without lines and one with lines. I hope he will be able to test the wiring and perhaps try wires of higher grade, different gauge, and etc to just see if that may be the culprit. ALSO, I want to see if we can send more power to the display, and ask how those things work. I know he had gauges and ways to send very specific amounts of current through a wire and etc. But, I don't know if we will be able to do any of this, as I don't know if it will result in needing to destroy anything, or if we will have any of the exact correct information on specs and etc. Would be nice to have an exact manual diagraming everything from a computer engineer's perspective.

MAYBE I AM DREAMING AND WE WILL ACCOMPLISH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

MAYBE I AM DREAMING AND WE WILL END UP DESTROYING MY MACBOOK AIR!

MAYBE I WILL HAVE A SOLUTION AND APPLE CAN FIX THIS FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL! MAYBE ALL OF MY NEWFOUND FRIENDS ON MAC RUMORS CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS???

BUT, I WILL NEVER KNOW UNLESS I TRY.

If I get together with this dude and he says, we cannot do anything without risking total ruining of your logic board, I will say, Forget it! What he said over phone/email was we could take a look at all of it but didn't know what we could test or do. He said he may be able to tell me if any of the ideas I come up with are plausible, or if I am a ******** having delusions of grandeur thinking I can figure out what two Apple employees couldn't (meaning it seems that Apple doesn't care enough to put anyone on solving this problem)...

Maybe Apple will send us all a free rev D MBA for coming up with the solution! If there is an Apple rep looking at this page now, I sure wish you could tell me if you know the problem (and just cannot go through with a fix because it's too expensive or whatever)... LOL. It could save me a whole lot of heartache and money and time!

Heck, I don't care about anything for free. I just want us all to enjoy our MBAs without worrying about the damn lines. I would pay the $2499 again just to have an MBA without lines! And that is the point!

I love championing the MBA, and I don't feel I can continue to push it without a bunch of "legal copy" at the end of every post describing the lines.

Now, after the "legal copy" comment, Apple will not be offering us free MBAs for helping them solve it... LOL!

[h1d]

We've heard lines on boot camp too, so the chance of it being the gpu driver seems a bit less.
Also I think I read someone saw lines on first Apple logo on boot, which makes driver issue more or less moot.

I'd like to point out some ideas, since sticking to only few theories blindly might not be too healthy. That it could be due to non display parts like you mentioned that could be faulty but were made faulty during the time that overlaps while 9C8F were produced. And another less possible theory is the lines could appear as time passes and could be the reason no QA team caught it but then I assume no-line machines do not start producing lines as time passed.

Also, while people are at it, don't be too deseparate, and you will disppapoint no matter how faint the lines are. Being desperate in finding the cause/solution is great but I would keep cool not to regret on every MBA even if I felt nothing if I didn't know about it. I nearly felt I saw lines on MBP, which is obviously an illusion.

Sorry for no PM, but here are some of mine (posted elsewhere before though). I still own rev A and hesitated to buy rev B, I did actually just order rev C online as I saw very very faint lines at Apple store but won't be coming until 22nd, even if the account page says "3 days shipping"... (what is the math here???)

Here is the MBA I saw yesterday at an Apple store (Shibuya, Japan)
---
model : rev C 2.13
display : 9C90
line : very faint, visible on white within 4inch but only if you know lines exist. if you didn't, it will not catch you.
---
model : rev C 1.86
display : 9C90
line : totally faint, not visible on white bg. slightly visible on light grey/blue within 4inch. you will not know of a problem unless you knew about the lines.
---
cause : no idea
solution : only if i knew...

diagnose1 : swap rev A display onto rev B/C if possible. if lines go away, rev B/C display sucks. if it shows, display is all cool.

d2 : lower the power setting to minimal, undervolt using coolbook as low as possible (on b/2), kill every application possible including any daemons to keep cpu use absolutely near 0, turn off every device possible (wifi, bt, usb, cam, everything. remove kernel extension where possible not just turn it off via gui and reboot or if it exists use something like hdparm/sdparm/smartctl to get hardware into "steadier" condition) observe any changes. (disabling various hardware is the more important part here) and optionally if possible, boot into single mode and drop gui totally and somehow get the display into the condition that can check for lines with lighter background (how? crazy ascii art with chars that take as much room as it can?).

d3 : just taking from another thread, but check display temperature. warm it up, cool it down, and watch for lines. didnt aussie people have no lines from apple store? because it's cold now? :rolleyes: noobish guess but we need them coming.

d4 : again, from another post but tilt the display to any angle, try different brightness, even almost dark but use external light source to verify.

good luck to those already own them. I'll try mine when it arrives. (Unless I get lucky :D)

[redcrow240]

Perhaps a stupid question, but since i dont have a macbook air yet I wouldnt know. Do you guys have any energy saving features turned on that would limit the amount of energy going to the display? Also, at what level is your backlight? What web browser is being used while seeing lines?

Did you calibrate your screen yourself or just got a profile from the forums? What is your gamma setting? Could you do a proper calibration of your display in a darkened room?

Are you on battery power or Power adapter? Are you using a multi outlet at your home? (like apple is using in their store that would explain why you see lines there as well). If you have access to a power conditioner, could you use it and document the results?

These questions might seem stupid, but they should be done and documented if you are serious about troubleshooting. Im very interested in finding out exactly what is going on here. Coming from the home theater world, one of my personal theories is that you are seeing lines in certain "light color" areas because its a low bit panel. Maybe its more pronounced depending on the backlight level,angle and lighting conditions of the user. I bet that the rev A line free panel used was a higher bit panel. a higher bit panel does a better job at gradation and transitions in colors (fades better from white to grey to black for example). A lower bit panel would show lines. Below is a link that explains what im talking about. It might apply to computer displays as well, it might not. If I were seeing these lines on my living room lcd tv, I would think that I had an 8 bit panel instead of a 10 bit.

http://www.hdtvinfofaq.com/10-bit.html


notice the picture in the link. Turn it horizontal to get horizontal lines. Is this what you guys are seeing? If not then we continue troubleshooting.

[Scottsdale]

Perhaps a stupid question, but since i dont have a macbook air yet I wouldnt know. Do you guys have any energy saving features turned on that would limit the amount of energy going to the display? Also, at what level is your backlight? What web browser is being used while seeing lines?

Did you calibrate your screen yourself or just got a profile from the forums? What is your gamma setting? Could you do a proper calibration of your display in a darkened room?

Are you on battery power or Power adapter? Are you using a multi outlet at your home? (like apple is using in their store that would explain why you see lines there as well). If you have access to a power conditioner, could you use it and document the results?

These questions might seem stupid, but they should be done and documented if you are serious about troubleshooting. Im very interested in finding out exactly what is going on here. Coming from the home theater world, one of my personal theories is that you are seeing lines in certain "light color" areas because its a low bit panel. Maybe its more pronounced depending on the backlight level,angle and lighting conditions of the user. I bet that the rev A line free panel used was a higher bit panel. a higher bit panel does a better job at gradation and transitions in colors (fades better from white to grey to black for example). A lower bit panel would show lines. Below is a link that explains what im talking about. It might apply to computer displays as well, it might not. If I were seeing these lines on my living room lcd tv, I would think that I had an 8 bit panel instead of a 10 bit.

http://www.hdtvinfofaq.com/10-bit.html


notice the picture in the link. Turn it horizontal to get horizontal lines. Is this what you guys are seeing? If not then we continue troubleshooting.

Thanks. The grade or bits of the panel could be a simple and obvious conclusion that would be what most people seem to think. Apple went cheap to raise margins on the ultra portable yet highly expensive and Apple like super margins with components priced similar to a MB, yet end user pricing similar to the PRO models at the time. Is there a way to check the bit-rate of the panel? Do any of those colorimeter devices also detect the display bit-rate output? That would be an easy test if so??? Otherwise, I guess we need to determine the exact panels used.

We are now getting a new Apple which will no doubt not care about the 5% of us enthusiasts who expect a display which is high quality which we are used to getting from our Apple Mac notebooks. I like the direction Apple is going, because this pricing will allow the MBA to grow well with a much larger defined target market. It will also grow sales and interest in the MBA to a point where Apple can add back in a high-end version with 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, and etc once the MBA has regained some status within the ranks of those who evolve the Mac notebooks as interest of buyers allows evolution. In the short run, the display line problem is there, but in the long run, an OLED display will replace the current line problem display with a more beautiful display and probably add an hour OR MORE to the battery life between charges itself!

If it's the panel, simple and done. Nothing we could do. It's definitely possible, but doesn't really explain the largely varying differences within the same models. But I will definitely check it out if possible.

[taphil]

Basically, what is the simplest explanation, and CAN I TEST IT?
I was thinking about buying a MBA which is why this issue has me interested.

Maybe this is a stupid answer, but everything you've said here points to crappy LCDs. Within the 9C90 display itself, there are likely variations in production which make the issue more apparent on some LCDs compared to others. I do not see any other explanation, and everything else you've said seems too far fetched or complicated to be reasonable. The ultimate test would be to put a Rev A LCD into a Rev C model, and I bet it will indeed be the case that the LCD is better on the Rev A.

[taphil]

Is there a way to check the bit-rate of the panel?
Almost ALL notebook LCDs are 6-bit. There is only one 17" LCD I know of from LG that is 8-bit.

Thus, the question and issue is moot.

[Airforcekid]

I have never seen lines in person on REV a and b. I looked very hard. Who assembles the led screens samsung last time I heard.

[entatlrg]

Quite a project you're undertaking there, Scottsdale! I applaud your curiosity and your commitment to the MBA community.

I will observe that some of the angst around the lines issue seems a bit overdone. Worrying because one can see the lines from 4" - a bit of contortionist behavior that's not part of normal use - seems to speak as much to user OCD as it does to any engineering decisions Apple made.

What I'm suggesting is that folks discriminate between significant defects which materially affect their use of something; versus defects which are rarely or never seen in normal use.

There are no perfect laptops. They all exhibit some number of issues. But the vast majority fall within the design and manufacturing tolerances spec'd by the maker.

As you note, the lines issue probably is unnoticeable to the vast majority of MBA buyers. Apple sells tens of thousands of these things. That would suggest that most owners are happy. Forums like this one tend to be frequented by a very tiny subset of knowledgeable, committed, obsessive, anal, pay-attention-to-the-tiniest-detail individuals (take your pick). We certainly don't represent the overall customer demographic that Apple is seeking to sell to.

VERY well said, double on the OCD comment ... seriously, look how many words and paragraphs you wrote, not just in this thread but in others too ... you'll be eclipsing Apples Engineers notes at this rate....

GIVE IT A BREAK ... this is going beyond "too much" :eek::eek::eek:

Go ENJOY your MBA ...

[entatlrg]

I was thinking about buying a MBA which is why this issue has me interested.

Maybe this is a stupid answer, but everything you've said here points to crappy LCDs. Within the 9C90 display itself, there are likely variations in production which make the issue more apparent on some LCDs compared to others. I do not see any other explanation, and everything else you've said seems too far fetched or complicated to be reasonable. The ultimate test would be to put a Rev A LCD into a Rev C model, and I bet it will indeed be the case that the LCD is better on the Rev A.

I'll bet you could of went and picked up an MBA and never see any lines whatsoever .... until somebody here planted a bug in your ear .... now you'll be the next one in the Apple Store staring 4" from the screen, LOL, (I hear some stare so long they see lines :D)

[aleksandra.]

Reading this thread I went over all I've heard and observed myself about lines. I always found lines most visible when screen brightness was high. I thought I saw them "pulse" when looking at them closely - like darker areas moving horizontally, slightly off in adjacent rows, creating an illusion of angled lines, but since no one else posted similar observation, I'm not sure about it. I thought it may be an issue with coating - apparently there're many defects, including different sort of lines, that can be caused by any small mistake in the process. However I was unable to find any pictures, so I don't know if they resemble MBA's lines. Then I thought again about how lines were most visible with high screen brightness...

I did a simple test... I've set screen brightness to minimum (0 bars, no backlighting or so it seems), directed very bright light at the screen and looked very closely (definitely less than 4"). I'm shortsighted, but I see very well from extremely close distances. I could see a grid of pixels, but no lines. (Perhaps staring 4" from the screen for too long can stop one from seeing lines where they are, as well? :D)

If other people do this test and see no lines, it would provide some clues: the issue is certainly not with the LCD itself, but with backlighting (power issue would be very likely then IMO), or it's very specific defect (possibly between layers of coating) which is only visible when enough light shines through it. Personally I think the latter unlikely (shouldn't coating imperfections be visible, if only barely, in external light as well?).

That leads me to wonder how LED backlighting is powered. In LCD itself, current is sent in rows and columns. If backlighting is powered in rows, it'd be consistent with my impression of horizontal "flow" in the screen. Perhaps regular drops of current cause LEDs to dim? I don't know if it's even possible, or how it would happen, that's just pure speculation...

[taphil]

The LED backlight is just a strip of white LEDs (perhaps 12-20) running along the bottom edge of the screen, in place of the old fluorescent tube running along the bottom.

The backlight does not explain the lines.

[aleksandra.]

The LED backlight is just a strip of white LEDs (perhaps 12-20) running along the bottom edge of the screen, in place of the old fluorescent tube running along the bottom.

The backlight does not explain the lines.

Thank you for the reply. As I said, I have no idea how it really works except the most basic. So all my conjecture is wrong. Not LED, not LCD itself... any ideas where the issue could be? Coating defect?

[Scottsdale]

Well, no matter how discouraging some want to be about me wasting time and money, I don't really care. I am doing this for all of us. It may be stupid for some, but I cannot just do nothing for a Mac I use eight plus hours per day. I want it to be perfect not just for me but for everyone. I am not doing this just for me, as mine is about as good as can be while having the lines... at the same time, I see so many terrible displays on the new MBAs, and I want to know why. CURIOSITY more than anything else. But, also the feeling that it really isn't the display itself. I am convinced that this is interference somehow and it could even be interference between backlighting and display. I just want to make sure there isn't a SIMPLE solution. If it cannot be done with a few hours of actual work, or I risk ruining my MBA, I will pass. I also am considering getting an original because I want the nice display. Would be great if we all could just throw in a new $350 display and the problem would go away. I predict that isn't the real culprit though. Maybe it's all a waste of time, but I will give it a few days of testing, researching, and time. If no results with what I am thinking of, I will pass. I was just hopeful to get some other ideas on potential causes, as it seemed that others are passing on the MBA just because of these lines, and that's disappointing. I love the MBA, and I want it to succeed more than any other Mac.

[jessica.]

When I fire back up the MBAir I'll give you my data but your wall of text may get more attention if you bullet point your thoughts.

[Scottsdale]

When I fire back up the MBAir I'll give you my data but your wall of text may get more attention if you bullet point your thoughts.

Um, the only stuff worth reading is my request for everyone else's ideas as to what could be the cause and solution. My rambling is my defense of myself for tackling the possibilities myself. I am really sick of the complaints, and Apple isn't going to do anything about it. So if I want it fixed, I can do it myself or learn to live with it. I decided to give it a shot. Don't really care about anything written by me here... all I care about is ideas from others that may challenge or differ from my ideas that could be a potential solution.

Thanks for the constructive criticism though. It could have been a much greater attack given the poor writing on the page.

[justit]

VERY well said, double on the OCD comment ... seriously, look how many words and paragraphs you wrote, not just in this thread but in others too ... you'll be eclipsing Apples Engineers notes at this rate....

GIVE IT A BREAK ... this is going beyond "too much" :eek::eek::eek:

Go ENJOY your MBA ...

OCD? :rolleyes:
You must use your MBA at the pool like a lounge toy. For the rest of us that depend on our laptops to make a living, the lines are a real issue for heavy duty users.

[stoconnell]

I have the faint lines on my Rev B with the 9C90 display. I was going back and forth trying to decide whether to try and get Apple to RMA the screen or not. It took a little while to notice and was really outside of the 14 day period when the sad realization set in :( I also wanted to see if they corrected the problem in the next release giving me ammo to go after them, and I didn't want to go through a churn of returns where the lines might get worse as I really do want to be able to use the machine and not have it in RMA limbo.

To me, it almost feels like my eyes are completing the lines of the pixellation. It really doesn't seem to matter what brightness setting I have my screen on, and it does seem matter what angle I am viewing the screen.

I have to wonder if anything short of class action lawsuit will get their attention. It is a shame, but even with this flaw, I still really do like this machine .. now if I'd only waited about 2 and a half months .. alas.

[h1d]

On another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7813098#post7813098), it is said display swapping is possible (at least from rev A to B transition) and luckily I own a rev A right now, ordered rev C, and will try once I get a display with lines (though I hope I do not). Hope the other thread gets the reply.

[entatlrg]

OCD? :rolleyes:
You must use your MBA at the pool like a lounge toy. For the rest of us that depend on our laptops to make a living, the lines are a real issue for heavy duty users.

Thanks for your comments ... anyone else here notice some of the elitists here are a defensive 'smart-assed' bunch ??

You're wondering where I use my Air, and if I use it as a "toy" and if I depend on my laptop to make a living, and whether or not I'm a heavy duty user. Is that why you're trying to say???

I'd be happy to answer your questions. Well, I don't have a pool so I can't use it there. As for a "lounge toy", while it's not that, it certainly is an enjoyable notebook to type on, my favorite notebook so far and I've owned many.

Yes, I very much depend on my computer to make a living. I'm a business owner, we own a manufacturing and design company, (we design consumer parts and products, I have a small staff of Engineers, Production and warehouse personel, I also own a Marketing Company doing anything from launching our products through to TV/Video promotions.

I'm on my computer 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we manage Projects on three continents, I have a 3G Internet stick, my MBA suits "anywhere computing very well". Without a doubt I'm on a computer far more than the average person, my hobbies like surfing macrumors, movie watcing etc all entail a computer .... so yes I'm a heavy duty user and a computer is crucial to my work.

I've answered your questions, thanks again.

Now, let's go back to this line issue. Among my staff and friends there are 7 MacBook Air's, all Revb's bought at different times. There's no lines :eek::D Yup, I said it again. Can we find lines on the screen? Yes, the faint grey lines you mentioned here, we've looked at them all, in different light settings you can see it to different degrees *BUT* only if you look really really close, or tilt the screen a little.

Let me give you an example, I wanted to check out my friends MBA, it was closed on his desk, I flipped it open, went to google notes, (white page) and guess what!? I saw lines :eek: You know what else? I then tilted the screen just a touch, forward or back, 1mm, and like magic the lines can't be seen.

I called my friend over and asked him, he saw no lines, I moved the display forward and backward a little at a time and asked him to watch carefully and finally when tilted just a certain way he could see the 'faint gray lines'. Another way to find them is to put you face 4" in front of the screen - you may or may not see them...

After looking at 6 MBA's of associates, plus my own and the displays at the Apple Stores/Best Buy etc in my experience it's not a problem. Just tilt the screen 1mm if you do see anything, turn down your brightness or the easiest of all look at the text your typing or reading, don't stare/focus on the background.

Lines or no lines my rant it how it's been written about here, 10's of thousands of words, posts of 'mega-paragraphs' on and on and on about lines, you're bringing people down, and YOU YOURSELVES admit that maybe you can't see them all the time, or you're not sure, and 95% of the people will never ever see them, yet you're the first ones who chirp and smart-ass at people who can't see lines or don't think it's a big issue as some of you do here.

OK, let's say it is a problem and you want it fixed ... then why the hell are you writing novels here about it? Whining, concocting special tests, and on and on some more ... it is ridiculous !!

You have a problem and you want it fixed then PHONE APPLE !!! That's doing something constructive and may just solve your problem. Has Apple ever said "No" to anyone who's bought a notebook, had a display issue and asked for it to be fixed?

This is a VERY informative forum, but it's been recently littered with endless junk posts, and in this case posts complaining about things you all admit 95% of the population will not notice ...

Anyway, write the final chapter, close the book, got a problem call Apple, the MBA in my experience is a GREAT machine with an outstanding display .... see lines? tilt the screen 1 or 2 mm, if that doesn't work call Apple OR continue to be silly and write here about it were no one can really solve the problem for you, LOL...

[Manix]

Thank you @entatlrg for your excellent post ! I'm a 100% with you. Noting more to say here. Please close the threat.

[aleksandra.]

After looking at 6 MBA's of associates, plus my own and the displays at the Apple Stores/Best Buy etc in my experience it's not a problem. Just tilt the screen 1mm if you do see anything, turn down your brightness or the easiest of all look at the text your typing or reading, don't stare/focus on the background.


You forgot control + option + command + 8 ;).

[madoka]

You've done lost your mind. :eek:

Returning a computer because you could see lines when 4" from your face? "Doctor, it hurts whenever I hit myself on the head with a hammer. What should I do?" Perhaps it's time for you to stop hitting yourself in the head dude.

I keep picturing that dude buying eggs in Clerks when I think about your quest for the perfect MBA.

BTW, I'm a happy Rev. A owner with no heat, line, or hinge problems. But the way you make out Rev. A is that they are worthless monstrosities. I'll be ording a Rev. C in the next month or so and I'm sure I'll be equally happy with it.

[zedsdead]

You've done lost your mind. :eek:

Returning a computer because you could see lines when 4" from your face? "Doctor, it hurts whenever I hit myself on the head with a hammer. What should I do?" Perhaps it's time for you to stop hitting yourself in the head dude.

I keep picturing that dude buying eggs in Clerks when I think about your quest for the perfect MBA.

BTW, I'm a happy Rev. A owner with no heat, line, or hinge problems. But the way you make out Rev. A is that they are worthless monstrosities. I'll be ording a Rev. C in the next month or so and I'm sure I'll be equally happy with it.

The Rev A's don't have the lines (I had three different models due to other issues, and all had great displays). The Rev B's screen was immediately noticeable as being horrendous. Good luck with the "C" but don't say we told you so.

I don't have mine anymore, but I had two different Rev "B"s before switching for a Pro. And Scottdale is right, once you see the lines, that is all you see.

I also saw about 9 in two different Apple Stores, only one did not have the lines (and one at a local best buy did not).

[entatlrg]

tilt the screen forward or backward one millimeter and you'll say ... 'where did the lines go :eek: lol.

[justit]

Thanks for your comments ... anyone else here notice some of the elitists here are a defensive 'smart-assed' bunch ??

You're wondering where I use my Air, and if I use it as a "toy" and if I depend on my laptop to make a living, and whether or not I'm a heavy duty user. Is that why you're trying to say???



A bit ironic, as your post is the 'mega-paragraphs' you complain about. :)

So we're in agreement then that the lines aren't an OCD issue. It's a real issue and whether or not one does anything about it is up to the individual owner.

[Scottsdale]

Thank you @entatlrg for your excellent post ! I'm a 100% with you. Noting more to say here. Please close the threat.

This isn't your thread to decide what to do with it. You are dead wrong for making such a statement. How would you like it if someone came around posting close thread on each of your threads?

[Scottsdale]

Thanks for your comments ... anyone else here notice some of the elitists here are a defensive 'smart-assed' bunch ??

You're wondering where I use my Air, and if I use it as a "toy" and if I depend on my laptop to make a living, and whether or not I'm a heavy duty user. Is that why you're trying to say???

I'd be happy to answer your questions. Well, I don't have a pool so I can't use it there. As for a "lounge toy", while it's not that, it certainly is an enjoyable notebook to type on, my favorite notebook so far and I've owned many.

Yes, I very much depend on my computer to make a living. I'm a business owner, we own a manufacturing and design company, (we design consumer parts and products, I have a small staff of Engineers, Production and warehouse personel, I also own a Marketing Company doing anything from launching our products through to TV/Video promotions.

I'm on my computer 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we manage Projects on three continents, I have a 3G Internet stick, my MBA suits "anywhere computing very well". Without a doubt I'm on a computer far more than the average person, my hobbies like surfing macrumors, movie watcing etc all entail a computer .... so yes I'm a heavy duty user and a computer is crucial to my work.

I've answered your questions, thanks again.

Now, let's go back to this line issue. Among my staff and friends there are 7 MacBook Air's, all Revb's bought at different times. There's no lines :eek::D Yup, I said it again. Can we find lines on the screen? Yes, the faint grey lines you mentioned here, we've looked at them all, in different light settings you can see it to different degrees *BUT* only if you look really really close, or tilt the screen a little.

Let me give you an example, I wanted to check out my friends MBA, it was closed on his desk, I flipped it open, went to google notes, (white page) and guess what!? I saw lines :eek: You know what else? I then tilted the screen just a touch, forward or back, 1mm, and like magic the lines can't be seen.

I called my friend over and asked him, he saw no lines, I moved the display forward and backward a little at a time and asked him to watch carefully and finally when tilted just a certain way he could see the 'faint gray lines'. Another way to find them is to put you face 4" in front of the screen - you may or may not see them...

After looking at 6 MBA's of associates, plus my own and the displays at the Apple Stores/Best Buy etc in my experience it's not a problem. Just tilt the screen 1mm if you do see anything, turn down your brightness or the easiest of all look at the text your typing or reading, don't stare/focus on the background.

Lines or no lines my rant it how it's been written about here, 10's of thousands of words, posts of 'mega-paragraphs' on and on and on about lines, you're bringing people down, and YOU YOURSELVES admit that maybe you can't see them all the time, or you're not sure, and 95% of the people will never ever see them, yet you're the first ones who chirp and smart-ass at people who can't see lines or don't think it's a big issue as some of you do here.

OK, let's say it is a problem and you want it fixed ... then why the hell are you writing novels here about it? Whining, concocting special tests, and on and on some more ... it is ridiculous !!

You have a problem and you want it fixed then PHONE APPLE !!! That's doing something constructive and may just solve your problem. Has Apple ever said "No" to anyone who's bought a notebook, had a display issue and asked for it to be fixed?

This is a VERY informative forum, but it's been recently littered with endless junk posts, and in this case posts complaining about things you all admit 95% of the population will not notice ...

Anyway, write the final chapter, close the book, got a problem call Apple, the MBA in my experience is a GREAT machine with an outstanding display .... see lines? tilt the screen 1 or 2 mm, if that doesn't work call Apple OR continue to be silly and write here about it were no one can really solve the problem for you, LOL...


What a hypocrite! Who is writing a novel here?

You may want to bash all of us because you cannot see the lines, but there are many of us who have had lines ruin our experiences with the MBAs. The lines are definitely there, apparently on the vast majority of the new 2.13 MBAs.

I had a beautiful rev B MBA with 1.86 GHz CPU and SSD, and the display was impeccable. Unfortunately, Apple did not reward me with a new MBA without lines, even with my many blessings of the MBA, and a purchase after my worst Mac ever which was absolutely unusable even as a secondary Mac (the original MBA).

Now, I returned three MBAs to get a fourth MBA. Two of the MBAs had lines, the third MBA was DOA (it wouldn't turn on)! Still have lines, and they are visible sometimes. They do ruin the experience whenever they pop up. And, really I am lucky, as some people with severely affected displays see the lines full force all the time. When I walk up to an MBA, I can instantly see the lines (if it has a bad display).

I dearly love the MBA, but I want the lines to be gone. Apple obviously is not fixing the lines, so I am going to try to. Why do you care if I want to spend my time and money doing this? Why would you want to come out and criticize me, when I am sharing with everyone.

I have a hard time just taking crap here all of the time especially when I am trying to help more than just myself.

WHATEVER!!! Please stay off my thread if you choose not to assist and only to criticize others who have a genuine problem and we want it solved/fixed.

[Scottsdale]

tilt the screen forward or backward one millimeter and you'll say ... 'where did the lines go :eek: lol.

God, if only this were TRUE! Biggest BS on the threads right now. The lines don't go away by doing anything. They come and go when and however they please. When they are there, they are simple to spot and annoying!

[h1d]

Heh... just like February eh? Let's not write novels for each others and just let go of people who don't have any points. The more pages of novel people write the more enthusiastic the story gets, thus more likely for real closing, like back then... In fact, I tend to skip 80% of a post when it has more than 20 lines...

[zedsdead]

God, if only this were TRUE! Biggest BS on the threads right now. The lines don't go away by doing anything. They come and go when and however they please. When they are there, they are simple to spot and annoying!

I've never been able to make the lines go away. The screen is also far dimmer than good screens.

[Airforcekid]

I noticed lines when I first wake up from sleep from my imac G3 same as the Airs and I can keep them on there by changing the power going to the screen. It seems if enough power is there they disappear maybe a way to conserve energy?:confused:

[Knipperdolling]

OK there, at least a nice thread addressing the technical aspect of the problem.
So on my MBA 1,86 128 9C9A display (supposedly one of the better ones) I do have the lines, I can see them from normal working distance but I can live with it. Would like to know a reason or a possible treatment nonetheless of course.

Whatever we see on our display is light passing through quite some layers of covers, so there are different possible sources for the lines.
Either it is the display itself or something happening on the way of the light.
So, here comes my preferred explanation:
Maybe it is one of the polarizing covers (there are usually two, right? I did not disassemble an air display yet, in most they are there) or both of them causing a Moire pattern. This could be caused by an non precise aligning of both foils and would result in exactly what we see.
It could furthermore explain the variability observed:
One batch of display models is presumably assembled with the frame at the same time and the same place, an other batch and model at a different time, so the model of the display could indicate the quality of assembly at one time. Slight differences in the lines could resemble small quality aberrations.

How to test it? I fear, the only way would be to disassemble the display compartment and check the individual parts of the covering (and in combination) in front of a light source.
When switched of, the display will be black, right? So you would not see anything presumably if you just disconnect the display cable while leaving the backlight on.
If that theory should hold true, a way to fix the issue would be to get a set of polarizing foils from a different display and replace the original ones.

I will frequently check ebay for defect displays to check this theory, for I really do not want to do that to my Air right now. Right now, I can´t find any.

Please let me know what you think of that theory!

Oh, and if you consider the lines as a non-issue, please refrain from posting an answer.

[Scottsdale]

OK there, at least a nice thread addressing the technical aspect of the problem.
So on my MBA 1,86 128 9C9A display (supposedly one of the better ones) I do have the lines, I can see them from normal working distance but I can live with it. Would like to know a reason or a possible treatment nonetheless of course.

Whatever we see on our display is light passing through quite some layers of covers, so there are different possible sources for the lines.
Either it is the display itself or something happening on the way of the light.
So, here comes my preferred explanation:
Maybe it is one of the polarizing covers (there are usually two, right? I did not disassemble an air display yet, in most they are there) or both of them causing a Moire pattern. This could be caused by an non precise aligning of both foils and would result in exactly what we see.
It could furthermore explain the variability observed:
One batch of display models is presumably assembled with the frame at the same time and the same place, an other batch and model at a different time, so the model of the display could indicate the quality of assembly at one time. Slight differences in the lines could resemble small quality aberrations.

How to test it? I fear, the only way would be to disassemble the display compartment and check the individual parts of the covering (and in combination) in front of a light source.
When switched of, the display will be black, right? So you would not see anything presumably if you just disconnect the display cable while leaving the backlight on.
If that theory should hold true, a way to fix the issue would be to get a set of polarizing foils from a different display and replace the original ones.

I will frequently check ebay for defect displays to check this theory, for I really do not want to do that to my Air right now. Right now, I can´t find any.

Please let me know what you think of that theory!

Oh, and if you consider the lines as a non-issue, please refrain from posting an answer.

Have you ever looked at an LCD through polarized lenses? It looks weird and you see imperfections immediately. I am going out to buy some polarized lenses to see if I can see anything at all. It's a possibility, I guess.

Several people have hypothesized the layers. I even said once that maybe it has to do with pressure on the lower layers from the outer plastic.

I wish we could experiment with removing layers, but I assume that would instantly ruin the display. I guess if I can find a nice original MBA display for cheap, I would try it.

[jdechko]

Maybe you can try an alternate source of backlighting to determine if the backlight is the cause. Maybe cut the backlight all the way down and project another light source through the display to see if the lines are visible? Of course, this would involve keeping the display connected while it is removed from the casing, but it might be a valid test to conduct.

[Scottsdale]

Maybe you can try an alternate source of backlighting to determine if the backlight is the cause. Maybe cut the backlight all the way down and project another light source through the display to see if the lines are visible? Of course, this would involve keeping the display connected while it is removed from the casing, but it might be a valid test to conduct.

Nice idea, but very difficult to test, without potentially tearing apart the display??? Really wish Apple would have fixed this themselves... LOL.

Thanks for the idea!

[n0de]

My observation is not that there are dark lines, but brighter lines, it's the contrast that causes the normal brightness sections to appear dark. I do not think it is the pixels, or even the backlighting for that matter. I think it is more physical.

Has anyone removed the panel and looked at the last couple of layers of reflective sheeting on the back of the LCD? These layers are usually applied in sheets, then the extra is cut off of the sides. The stuff comes in rolls, a spray adhesive is applied and then the LCD itself is set flat on it. A squeegee (for lack of a better description) is scrapped with a little pressure to squeeze any bubbles out. It is this scrapping action that I think may be causing the lines. If the squeegee has a serrated edge instead of a flat one there will be even indentions in the reflective sheet running parallel from one side to the other.

I think this uneven but consistent application is causing just a little extra reflection along those lines. The contrast of the thin, bright lines against the normal brightness of the display would vary to the end user based on environmental lighting.

Since this is occurring in the manufacturing process it should be consistent for every display coming off of a single production line, or all similarly configured production lines.

These lines should be visible on the sheets attached to the back of the display, let me know what you find as I rely on my Rev-A for absolutely everything and can't afford to disassemble it right now ;)

[jdechko]

Nice idea, but very difficult to test, without potentially tearing apart the display??? Really wish Apple would have fixed this themselves... LOL.

Thanks for the idea!

But if you can find an air with a broken hinge you might be able to snag it cheap. Plus I think you are onto something with the idea that the backlight isn't getting enough power. External displays don't exhibit this behavior and it's not present in the MacBook or the 13" pro, both of which share the 9400 with the air. So in my mind that rules out the graphics card and driver. This leads mr to wonder what panels are used in the umb and 13" pro. Could it possibly be the same panel? Let's get some data on that for comparison as well.

[Scottsdale]

I got some interesting results yesterday when testing some theories. I am hopeful to get another MBA with lines to test today, as my results need to be repeatable to prove anything. Otherwise, it could be just a fluke.

Sorry to not share more, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up unnecessarily. Will be back here posting results later tonight.

[entatlrg]

Solutions:

1. Move screen forward or backward 1 or 2mm - lines disappear!
2. Calibrate your screen, switch from 1.8 to 2.2
3. QUIT STARING AT YOUR SCREEN UNTIL YOU SEE LINES :D Read the text/graphics in front of the background - that's the whole idea.

As many have already agreed 95% + will never see ANY LINES so how the MBA Forum turned into an Engineering Problem Solving Project run by unqualified speculators ... I mean ... why here? Why the volume and volumes of notes and pages, WE can't fix it, WE here all are likely unqualified and have NO IDEA where to look or how to solve, so isn't all this really a complete waste of space and time AND shouldn't all these questions be sent directly to APPLE the manufacturer of the product, who knows it, can find the problem and comment on it. Apple doesn't ignore people, like some PC companies do, so if it is a problem why not bring the problem to those who can realistically provide a solution???

Instead, the problem noticed by less than 5% of the people is bogging this forum down, bringing people down, let's drop this, write Apple tech support to satisfy the 5% who are line crazy and leave this for the 95% of the people who love their MBA's have real questions and are sick like am about reading about lines lines lines lines every time I take a look in the MBA section ... it's TOO MUCH.

[entatlrg]

What a hypocrite! Who is writing a novel here?

WHATEVER!!! Please stay off my thread if you choose not to assist and only to criticize others who have a genuine problem and we want it solved/fixed.

You're the genuine novelist here Scottsdale I wouldn't want to take that title away.

blah, blah, blah got a problem contact Apple Tech Support, they'd be happy to help you I'm sure.

Read back a little, I'm not the only one bashing your "I'm going to analyze the Apples MBA line issue" venture, you say only 5% or less see it, or that it bothers 5%, well that also translates into 95% of us not know what the hell you're talking about, and 95% of us are getting sick and tired of your OCD and whining about it, sorry to be frank but you sparked up the words and I'm only too happy to respond.

Anyway, it's a public forum I'll continue to comment when and where I'd like too, in the mean time no need for you to reply, you'll need to get back to your line analysis ... what's the first 4 letters of 'analysis' spell Scottsdale?

HEY, did I mention Apple has a Toll Free Tech Support number, they'd be happy to solve your problem immediately, just ask.

[xpovos]

Apple doesn't ignore people...

Makes me wonder just how much or how little experience you have with Apple. It's precisely because Apple did ignore all the returns, exchanges and complaints that the issue persists in the latest revision. Indeed, Apple is notorious for ignoring people, especially when it comes to a perceived shortcoming in one of their perfect products.

I guess I just don't understand why you're attacking Scottsdale. He's trying to discover and provide a solution that Apple was unwilling to provide, for a problem that is bothering a lot of users. I don't know if it's 5% or 0.5% but it doesn't matter. He's investing his own time and money to fix a problem that bothers him, and he's willing to share any positive results with anyone else who may be interested. What's wrong with that?

Are you really sick and tired of his OCD, or is it your own that might be bothering you? Sucks to keep getting reminded of an issue you'd rather rationalize away with "solutions" that aren't solutions. If that's so, why not just ignore Scottsdale's posts? Easy enough to do.

Personally, I'm thankful for the work Scottsdale is putting into this---and I don't even own an Air anymore. I would if it weren't that Apple does so blatantly ignore people.

[Airforcekid]

MBA(s) you own/owned:3
Display(s) own/owned:3
How you rate lines on your own MBA(s):None

What is your proposed potential cause of the lines?
Not enough power to screens.


What is your proposed potential solution to the lines?
Force or divert more power to screens.


What ways can you think of to test your cause/solution?
In a sense I have tested it on my iMac G3 and a compaq monitor.

[n0de]

It's a bit disappointing that this kind of troubleshooting has to be done by a consumer instead of Apple, but hey everyone needs a hobby.

If Scottsdale is happy to do this then more power to him!

[MacLover4491]

what a waste of time. Just dont buy the MBA. Apple will have to replace the defect hardware because of less buyers. Apple is becoming the new microsoft haha.

[PimpIntInxs]

So i was at the apple store picking up a case for my MBA and i thought i would randomly ask about the line to one of the tech people. They said they know all about it (this was at the APPLE store in Clarendon, VA). They said the lines are due to either 1 of 2 problems.

1. Logic Board - Connect your Air to an external monitor and see if the lines come up on the external monitor... in that case its a logic board problem come in and they'll fix it.

2. If you connect it and NO lines then its a display screen issue bring it in and they'll fix it. Apparently they've fixed QUITE a few of these...

I'm still psuedo stumped by these lines... I think I see them but what I see may be normal... but its definitely not enough... at this moment to go see if they can "fix" the problem. But just something interesting.

Someone knows whats going on... someone always knows its just getting that info out there is whats difficult. If anything call the store!! and say you came in earlier in the week and had mentioned that you had these lines and see what they tell you. you'll obviously ask better questions than me.

[Scottsdale]

Solutions:

1. Move screen forward or backward 1 or 2mm - lines disappear!
2. Calibrate your screen, switch from 1.8 to 2.2
3. QUIT STARING AT YOUR SCREEN UNTIL YOU SEE LINES :D Read the text/graphics in front of the background - that's the whole idea.

As many have already agreed 95% + will never see ANY LINES so how the MBA Forum turned into an Engineering Problem Solving Project run by unqualified speculators ... I mean ... why here? Why the volume and volumes of notes and pages, WE can't fix it, WE here all are likely unqualified and have NO IDEA where to look or how to solve, so isn't all this really a complete waste of space and time AND shouldn't all these questions be sent directly to APPLE the manufacturer of the product, who knows it, can find the problem and comment on it. Apple doesn't ignore people, like some PC companies do, so if it is a problem why not bring the problem to those who can realistically provide a solution???

Instead, the problem noticed by less than 5% of the people is bogging this forum down, bringing people down, let's drop this, write Apple tech support to satisfy the 5% who are line crazy and leave this for the 95% of the people who love their MBA's have real questions and are sick like am about reading about lines lines lines lines every time I take a look in the MBA section ... it's TOO MUCH.

You already stated all of this, and you're full of CRAP! You don't know what you're talking about, and you are quick to judge others who aren't blind. I have returned THREE. Apple hasn't fixed the issue. Apple is NOT fixing the issue, and Apple doesn't do anything except exchange for another MBA with lines! I had a rev B MBA with 9C9A, and it didn't have lines, so I know that line-free displays exist in rev B MBAs. The new MBAs all have 9C90 displays which are displaying lines on nearly all the MBAs reported.

Please stay off my thread if you don't want or care to include useful advice.

Quite honestly, you're in denial or just plain BLIND.

[Scottsdale]

So i was at the apple store picking up a case for my MBA and i thought i would randomly ask about the line to one of the tech people. They said they know all about it (this was at the APPLE store in Clarendon, VA). They said the lines are due to either 1 of 2 problems.

1. Logic Board - Connect your Air to an external monitor and see if the lines come up on the external monitor... in that case its a logic board problem come in and they'll fix it.

2. If you connect it and NO lines then its a display screen issue bring it in and they'll fix it. Apparently they've fixed QUITE a few of these...

I'm still psuedo stumped by these lines... I think I see them but what I see may be normal... but its definitely not enough... at this moment to go see if they can "fix" the problem. But just something interesting.

Someone knows whats going on... someone always knows its just getting that info out there is whats difficult. If anything call the store!! and say you came in earlier in the week and had mentioned that you had these lines and see what they tell you. you'll obviously ask better questions than me.

It has never been reported from an MBA to an external display. Fixing it has NEVER worked. In the new MBA, roughly 90% reported have lines... and the other 10% are probably affected too but reported by people who cannot see them.

I WISH Apple could fix this, as it would save me a whole lot of headache and time for returns! The bottom line is Apple doesn't give a crap.

[Santa Rosa]

Good on you Scottsdale for the effort your putting into this. Dont be listening to the other people downing you, aint seeing them doing anything constructive like this.

Looking forward to seeing what results you get.

[Scottsdale]

It's a bit disappointing that this kind of troubleshooting has to be done by a consumer instead of Apple, but hey everyone needs a hobby.

If Scottsdale is happy to do this then more power to him!

Thanks for your non-criticism. Seems like people want to call me stupid for not wanting to look at lines eight plus hours per day, and trying to fix this myself. SICK OF CRITICISM. If you don't care about the lines, or you don't have an MBA, that's your business. I am trying to share with others what my findings are, because I care about my favorite Mac of all time.

I don't get why others want to jump on and criticize if they don't care or don't see them in the first place. This thread is for those who want to share their ideas about what could be causing the lines, or for those who want to read my findings about what I have tried to fix the issue. It's NOT for anyone who wants to call me stupid for caring about the Mac I use.

[Scottsdale]

Makes me wonder just how much or how little experience you have with Apple. It's precisely because Apple did ignore all the returns, exchanges and complaints that the issue persists in the latest revision. Indeed, Apple is notorious for ignoring people, especially when it comes to a perceived shortcoming in one of their perfect products.

I guess I just don't understand why you're attacking Scottsdale. He's trying to discover and provide a solution that Apple was unwilling to provide, for a problem that is bothering a lot of users. I don't know if it's 5% or 0.5% but it doesn't matter. He's investing his own time and money to fix a problem that bothers him, and he's willing to share any positive results with anyone else who may be interested. What's wrong with that?

Are you really sick and tired of his OCD, or is it your own that might be bothering you? Sucks to keep getting reminded of an issue you'd rather rationalize away with "solutions" that aren't solutions. If that's so, why not just ignore Scottsdale's posts? Easy enough to do.

Personally, I'm thankful for the work Scottsdale is putting into this---and I don't even own an Air anymore. I would if it weren't that Apple does so blatantly ignore people.

Thanks for your support.

I really don't get why other people care so much??? I guess they're just Apple fanboys that don't want to admit that Apple would sell crappy displays in the MBAs, or that they cannot see the lines in their displays.

I had a rev B without lines (9C9A), and I know it was hard for me to understand the line issues until I finally saw an affected MBA. Once I did, I understood exactly why that would ruin other MBA owners experiences. I wish Apple would have fixed this with the new MBA, but they didn't.

Lastly, I want to say that I personally could never see attacking someone just because I didn't believe in what they were trying to understand or fix.

All I am doing is trying to figure this out, and I am sharing while doing it.

I am just about to the point of erasing everything posted here and asking others to PM me to find out results. It's ashame that people have to be so disrespectful.

Lastly, I don't have OCD, but I do have a little free time, and I want to learn what is causing this. It's somewhat fun for me, and sharing has only brought me a headache, which is really sad.

It is SAD because a few people can ruin the information forum for all of us. I can take criticism, but I don't appreciate the criticism when my sharing and time is for the benefit of all who are not buying the MBA because of the lines or those who have an MBA with lines and want to know why or fix it.

Thanks to all for support.

[Veinticinco]

Scottsdale, don't let the cranks and misanthropes get you down - many of us here are greatly appreciative of your resolve and dedication to this experiment.

Ideal scenario is you can actually elucidate the cause of the problem, it gets picked up here at MR, *bang* the front page (like the SATA-throttling of the MBPs) and all of a sudden, suitably embarrassed, someone at Cupertino takes a deep breath and begins to write an internal email....

Here's hoping anyway!

[Gruber]

Seems like people want to call me stupid for not wanting to look at lines eight plus hours per day, and trying to fix this myself. SICK OF CRITICISM. If you don't care about the lines, or you don't have an MBA, that's your business. I am trying to share with others what my findings are, because I care about my favorite Mac of all time.

*Hug*

I agree completely. You love that thing enough and yet are bothered enough to go through 3 returns... Just ignore the "you-are-stupid-to-care-ask-Apple-or-buy-a-different-notebook-instead" guy. He has pretty much disqualified himself with his comment. "Anal", my foot.

[hodgeheg]

I owned a Rev B 1.6GHz HDD model bought from the Birmingham Bull Ring store 3rd January 2009. It had faint lines, that were ignorable from most angles most of the time, but were definitely there. A friend who makes hardware suggested it might be to do with tolerances of the pulse driver for the LCD, whatever that is. I have no idea how one could test this, but if it is to do with tolerances of power flow or regulation this would seem to make a certain amount of sense (to this layman) in terms of explaining why they do not seem equally permanent on some machines than others, and seem to vary on the same machine. As for the fact that changing the angle can sometimes make them better or worse, again this doesn't dispute that - after all, LCDs do change colours from different angles slightly, and if they do that enough that the contrast between what I perceived as light grey lines and whiter background is reduced sufficiently then they may appear to 'go away'. This is not a 'solution' but a workaround, but anything that reduces contrast may make some difference: the lines were rendered completely invisible by a matte screen protector that I bought with the laptop that the store fitted. Unfortunately it left the whites not quite white and a slight sparkly effect, so I removed it. This was when I noticed the lines.

The same laptop then had to have its screen replaced due to a dent, and they said the only way to replace the bezel was to replace the entire top unit. £342 later, I had a new screen with very obvious lines that I couldn't avoid/ignore. Again, I put a screen cover on it, which rendered them invisible. I posted about this at the time. However, I missed the contrast of the native screen, the 'pop' of the colours, so took it back off again. The screen protector may suit some people though.

I no longer have the laptop, due to lines and various other problems with the machine and service received.

The main problem I perceive is frankly that the Apple Stores absolutely deny the existence of the lines, in my experience. It seems extremely unlikely that Apple would be unable to find a solution if they admitted it, but since they won't admit it, we are left scratching around for information. I may well be coming across as a "crank and misanthrope" myself - if so this is due to the service I received from Apple more than the issue itself, which I was prepared to live with - but I hope not - your efforts are for the good of everyone. It just shouldn't be your job! Frankly Apple should be paying you Scottsdale, and we should all be grateful, whether we have an Air or not, or lines or not. It seems you are likely to be met by blank stares and denials from Apple and abuse/disbelief from certain quarters. I wish you the absolute best of luck with your efforts! And for what it's worth - THANK YOU - and I would still be saying that if I were lucky enough to have an Air with no lines or with minimal lines.

[iMacmatician]

Personally, I'm thankful for the work Scottsdale is putting into this---and I don't even own an Air anymore.I completely agree. I hope that this thread helps in finding some sort of solution.

MBA(s) you own/owned:3
Display(s) own/owned:3
How you rate lines on your own MBA(s):None

What is your proposed potential cause of the lines?
Not enough power to screens.


What is your proposed potential solution to the lines?
Force or divert more power to screens.


What ways can you think of to test your cause/solution?
In a sense I have tested it on my iMac G3 and a compaq monitor.I have never seen lines on any MacBook Air (but I have not looked closely), and I haven't been following the lines discussions closely. However, this post reminds me of something. My old CRT monitor (the PC it was on was from 1994 or 1995 but the monitor was 5 years or so newer) exhibited this "lines" problem. When I set it to 800x600 (or 640x480), I saw no lines at all. But when I set it to 1024x768, I saw very strong horizontal lines on the display. So strong that I switched back to 800x600.

The lines match the descriptions made by posts #1, #3, #10, and #21 in this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520) thread (except I'm not sure if they are not tilted). Moving my head didn't solve the problem. Another old monitor and PC I had might have exhibited a lesser problem also with 1024x768.

[aleksandra.]

Personally, I'm thankful for the work Scottsdale is putting into this---and I don't even own an Air anymore.

+1, although in my case it's a bit selfish as I do own an Air (with lines). ;)

[xpovos]

All I am doing is trying to figure this out, and I am sharing while doing it.

I am just about to the point of erasing everything posted here and asking others to PM me to find out results. It's ashame that people have to be so disrespectful.

Man, don't do that. Lots of folks here appreciate what you're trying to do. Don't let one fanboy in denial dampen your resolve. You're willing to do what I wish I had the time and money to do myself, and we're all going to benefit from your efforts. It's the very essence of the old sense of "community" we Mac users had back in the day. Just don't let this guy get you down. You can see from these posts that a lot of folks support you.

[pceew]

Keep going Scottsdale:

in Cambridge UK Apple Store:

model : rev C 1.86
display : 9C90
line : none

[calsci]

scottsdale don't stop because a few posters are being immature. you are doing something that will help alot of people even if they never notice it.

[King t.]

I have the REV:C as well and I don't have any lines, but unfortunately my colors aren't that pretty if i compare it to my MBA REV:A panel: 9C73 :(

My REV:C model:
2,13ghz
Panel: 9c90
128GB SSD

[PimpIntInxs]

another thing... i'm on an old dell monitor connected to a Sony vaio laptop that I broke the screen on hence I got the AIR... but i've been using this setup here and there and there are

DEFINITELY LINES ON THIS SCREEN SOOO much more apparent then on the AIR... maybe its a 9c90 also? JUST KIDDING! just thought id throw that out there!

[Stormygirl]

As a "lurker" who has read this forum for many months, I am finally spurred to write to say how great Scottsdale's posts are and to say how lucky we are to have such a knowledgeable and steady person share so much of his valuable experience with us. Go Scottsdale, keep writing, and don't let the criticism get you down. There are lots of us out here who value you immensely.

[Scottsdale]

Thanks to all for the encouragement.

Okay, here's the deal. I think there may be a real reason the lines are there that I can identify. However, I obviously need to duplicate this on a second MBA otherwise my whole idea and experiment could be a fluke...

I am going to work on this with a friend on Saturday, and I will post some results when finished.

[MacLover4491]

if its an easy fix, apple would have done it already. They cant fix it because of the cheap hardware that they use.

[Scottsdale]

if its an easy fix, apple would have done it already. They cant fix it because of the cheap hardware that they use.

If my hypothesis is correct, no it's not an "easy" fix nor one Apple would even consider. Hence, why we are still looking at lines.

Hey, can anyone help me out with this. What was the battery life given by Apple for both the previous MBAs?

[aleksandra.]

If my hypothesis is correct, no it's not an "easy" fix nor one Apple would even consider. Hence, why we are still looking at lines.

Hey, can anyone help me out with this. What was the battery life given by Apple for both the previous MBAs?

Is it a fix that a person owning a MacBook Air would consider, then?

It was 5 hours for revision A, 4:30 for revision B and 5 for revision C. I don't think Apple made different predictions for HDD and SSD versions, but I think they mentioned that SSD improves battery life.

[Veinticinco]

If my hypothesis is correct, no it's not an "easy" fix nor one Apple would even consider. Hence, why we are still looking at lines.

Hey, can anyone help me out with this. What was the battery life given by Apple for both the previous MBAs?

So definitely a juice feed rate thing then? Interesting.

[PittAir]

So definitely a juice feed rate thing then? Interesting.

If so, then manipulating the battery settings should work, no?

[Veinticinco]

If so, then manipulating the battery settings should work, no?
I don't know as I'm not the one doing the experimenting ;)

But given Scottsdale has said, if his suspicions are correct, it's NOT an easy fix by Apple (which we kind of assume anyway given they've NOT fixed it already), then I'd say your hopes are going to be dashed.

Also that the issue is present regardless of whether battery power or AC is driving the MBA, kind of rules that out as well.

Best case scenario? I just hope it's an inherent hardware problem for which a potential firmware fix can be designed to address. Although again, that leads me to think why haven't they fixed it already.

Worst case? Something weirdly and ordinarily insignificantly specific to latter model rev.Bs and all rev.Cs (such as a safety/reliability tweak in the design of the power-to-display circuitry) that means any display it utilises causes this issue. And changing back to the old 9C8Fs and 9C9As won't make the slightest bit of difference.

[Stormygirl]

I would so much appreciate if someone (Scottsdale?) would post a good pic of these confounded lines, or a URL to a pic somewhere else. A previous poster in this forum said we could find a pic by searching this forum for "grey lines," which I have done both here and on the Internet in general -- and nowhere have I been able to find a good pic. :confused:The only ones I have found are of another machine (not an mba) and the pic on this thread of a TV equivalent of the mba lines. I am planning on buying an Air next week after the iPhone frenzy dies down. The Apple store manager has agreed to sit down with me when I buy it and let me inspect the machine for these lines. He is willing to go through several machines til I find one without lines. But I need to know exactly what I'm looking for. The display model at the Apple store in Corte Madera, CA does not appear (to me) to have lines. Thanks to you all so much for your help.

[McGilli]

There have been so many threads about the lines in the last 8 months - but I remember at one point in like January - a few people said that Apple had asked them to send their MBA's to the Engineering team for investigation : Does anyone remember if anything came of that?

Or was everything deemed 'in spec'?

[quisguous]

I would so much appreciate if someone would post a good pic of these confounded lines, or a URL to a pic somewhere else.

The lines are often subtle. I've seen MBAs both with and without them (I'm writing this on a Rev A MBA that does not have lines) and when I show an MBA with lines to other people, only some of them can see the lines. I think one would have a difficult time capturing the lines with a camera.

If you are one of the luck folks that doesn't notice the lines during normal use, I would suggest you not worry about them and enjoy your new MBA. :)

If I haven't convinced you to leave it at that: turn up your brightness all the way, load up Safari, navigate to the URL: "about:blank", and expand the Safari window to take up the whole screen. You'll have a bright white screen. Look at it from different angles and see if you can spot any lines. Each time I've encountered them, if I recall correctly, they look like 0.2mm areas of reduced brightness (aka gray) lines with about 0.5mm of 'normal' brightness between them. They repeat over the entire screen, they are parallel to one another, they run horizontal, but not perfectly horizontal, about 10% off, starting higher on the left and running lower to the right. They vary in intensity depending on up/down viewing angle (less difference is noticeable looking left/right).

[h1d]

Got a new rev C this morning and I can see the lines but not as annoying as I didn't hope it would be and here's my first impression on the machine generally. (Don't think starting yet another thread would've been nice, so just adding to a random popular thread...) I'm (was) a rev A SSD user. And this is my 3rd MBA from rev A HDD being the first. So, for those that skipped rev B might find it somewhat imformative.

Lines are probably just as faint as I saw at Tokyo Apple Store last weekend. Not as visible on white background but more so on light colored backgrounds of grey/brown, and no, it doesn't take my attention.

The speed is ok. But it's quite subtle to be honest, you can feel "Oh, it's prolly a tad bit faster" but that's about it from rev A SSD. I'm sure big difference exists from HDD version just like I felt from rev A HDD to SSD, and obviously lack of any disk activity sound is great.

Then, the thermal problem making the kernel process stutter from rev A is probably simply gone, which is really nice. I watched some 5min of HD movies on it and no stutter (no coolbook installed), no kernel_task going berserk. I even opened the case and re applied the thermal paste but I don't think the temperature made any change (even if it did, just a few c, so I doubt it's worth doing if you're concerned.) On calm moments, the CPU temperature is at 50c (room temp is 20c+), when watching HD vid, it goes up to 80 (istats reports 90 but coolbook says 80 when installed), but obviously not the horrendous 100c (and shuts itself down sooner or later) like rev A did...

Fan noise seems to be more "polite" than rev A which just was lousy noise when it hits 6.2k. Just my opinion but fan noise seems steadier.

Keyboard, which I wasn't aware and some of you probably aren't is that the Ctrl button is now put back to where Windows machine would have at left down next to fn (since rev B?) and Caps Lock is on the middle of the left row. For me, as a programmer, this is a bit of a let down... as rev A had Ctrl on the middle left, which was nice.

I've tested a bit of 3D performance and installed Eve Online on mac (space mmorpg 3D game) and flew a newby ship around and it showed about 20 or so FPS on medium settings (couldn't get any better FPS on lower settings), which was quite fine when not in condensed zone, but I guess things can go slow in busy moments. (Gonna test some FPS games [CoD4, HL2 and some such] on Windows once I make this triple boot later)

Disk space is doubled, which is great, especially when you want multiple OS with at least 5GB for each instances.

I looked at the display connections but was too complicated for me to even try swapping rev A display onto it on my first go... (it had some star shaped screw, which I couldn't unscrew as well) perhaps when someone can help me with the process I might try later.

To be honest, if you're satisfied with rev A SSD, there isn't hell of a big reason for a change, when including the risk of getting crappier display and CoolBook being the savior for rev A's critical problem. (For perhaps 1k expense, by selling rev A at 1k, getting rev C at 2k) The line problem in rev C, while it's still visible, if you already know about it (no wonder Apple won't fix as people usually don't notice this [and interestingly enough, if I focus on actual use of the computer, I even forget about lines], unless told so, but that doesn't mean this obvious problem should be left over multiple iterations... for sake.)

I'll report any other things if I think it's worth it as I use (and possibly how it fairs on WinXP and Linux real booting). Right now, I think I'm going to keep this rev C as lines aren't killing me at all.

[h1d]

Just tested listening to Apple Lossless format music but I can say the audio got better, in a way the sound is a bit clearer.

I sometimes use an external usb audio device (just a small dongle) that will enhance the quality pretty well for a pretty cheap one (http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=207&product=17892) (seems they made a new version of it as well lately), but MBA alone isn't too bad now. (Love my Bose earphone btw :))

Also, on the previous post, I took some photos of the inside of the new MBA (tho, they could be posted elsewhere already), if anyone is interested, I'll post them. (But since the photos are taken by iPhone and I'm pretty much a noob at photo, don't expect any great quality...)

Scottsdale, I have rev A SSD (no lines) and rev C SSD (with some lines) right now, if you need me to test anything, let me know (unless it's super complicated.)

About the ctrl being the far left middle, os x's stock keyboard config has a way to have it as ctrl... that was easy fix.

[Scottsdale]

Just tested listening to Apple Lossless format music but I can say the audio got better, in a way the sound is a bit clearer.

I sometimes use an external usb audio device (just a small dongle) that will enhance the quality pretty well for a pretty cheap one (http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=207&product=17892) (seems they made a new version of it as well lately), but MBA alone isn't too bad now. (Love my Bose earphone btw :))

Also, on the previous post, I took some photos of the inside of the new MBA (tho, they could be posted elsewhere already), if anyone is interested, I'll post them. (But since the photos are taken by iPhone and I'm pretty much a noob at photo, don't expect any great quality...)

Scottsdale, I have rev A SSD (no lines) and rev C SSD (with some lines) right now, if you need me to test anything, let me know (unless it's super complicated.)

About the ctrl being the far left middle, os x's stock keyboard config has a way to have it as ctrl... that was easy fix.


Well, how do you feel about swapping the displays??? I want to know the following...

If you put the 9C90 into the original MBA, and leave the display on for let's say ten hours of use, and see what happens (I predict the lines will be gone). Then, possibly without lines, can you put it back in the new MBA and see if the lines are still gone???

Also, test two. Put the original MBA display in the new MBA, and I predict the lines will still not be there, but if they are, it blows my concept!

[h1d]

I feel I wish I could swap it, but how do I do that? I wish Maven would point it out a bit more in detail, obviously I don't want to go in blind and brick my first day MBA...

So, unless someone can help me with the process, I don't think I'm going to unscrew everything only to find it not come back in one piece... :rolleyes:

I think it has to be unscrewed way more than for reapplying thermal paste and I did find star shaped screws at where I think needs to be removed that I can't even turn around without such specific drivers, so not possible at the moment.

The display tearing should be same for all revs, so if anyone got any insight on how to disassemble display off of MBA, that would help.

[Scottsdale]

I have come up with a few things to test. Does anyone here have both an original and rev B MBA without lines? Does anyone have a 9C9A display? Who has the other display 9C8F? Are these with or without lines?

Anyone with a faint lines new MBA, can you plug it in and turn the display to full brightness, and use a pixel display checker to cycle through the colors. Leave each color on for maybe a half hour. Next, leave a bright white background on for half hour. Now, look and see if lines have been reduced at all while still warmed up? Next, turn it off and let it cool down for a few hours. Turn back on and see what the result is... DO NOT REPORT HERE. We cannot have people "think" their lines are gone, so best to PM me the results as to not spoil what people are thinking may or may not have changed anything in relation to the lines. This is an important test that I need several other people to report their results, PLEASE. PM me with your results. Then, in 24 hours, go ahead and report your findings back in this post for others to see. I am hopeful to get four or five people to report this in before the results are spread here.

Next, backlighting... when you turn your MBA on, and it shows the gray background, notice areas of brightness and more importantly darkness... use a blank sheet of paper to diagram the dark and light points. Now, go ahead and use your white background to look for the lines. Move the window with lines all over and check for lines specifically in the lightest areas you noticed with the gray background during bootup and the darkest areas. Note if there is ANY correlation to that... remember correlation isn't causation. This is testing another theory which was submitted by someone else.

[h1d]

After seeing illusional lines (or rather the faintest possible lines, which I never ever figured for the past year) on my rev A after being crazy about lines... I think I'll take a break...

[Scottsdale]

I feel I wish I could swap it, but how do I do that? I wish Maven would point it out a bit more in detail, obviously I don't want to go in blind and brick my first day MBA...

So, unless someone can help me with the process, I don't think I'm going to unscrew everything only to find it not come back in one piece... :rolleyes:

I think it has to be unscrewed way more than for reapplying thermal paste and I did find star shaped screws at where I think needs to be removed that I can't even turn around without such specific drivers, so not possible at the moment.

The display tearing should be same for all revs, so if anyone got any insight on how to disassemble display off of MBA, that would help.

iFixIt.com has a complete breakdown of the MBA. It would require taking apart the MBA. But really, all you would have to do is remove the display and connect it without fully installing each in the other case. It's really about removing screws and being able to reinstall. If you don't want to, by all means, DON'T DO IT!

If you read the guide and decide you can, I would greatly appreciate the results. I decided not to buy an original just on principle of promising myself to never do that to myself again... LOL.

Let me know if you can do the other experiment, and send me the results via PM.

[Scottsdale]

I decided what I really really really want to know is what happens to a 9C90 once it's plugged into an original MBA??? I really wish I had an original MBA to test on, but I don't want to deal with an original MBA beyond that.

My friend who ordered the 13" MBP cancelled it due to the SATA 1.5 Gbit limitation. So, I decided to buy the SSD model only if it comes with a SATA-II controller. Some people have reported Apple will only enable SATA-II 3.0 Gbit if purchase an SSD model... I REALLY HATE THIS TOO! So, I have to spend an extra $400 for a damn SSD to get SATA-II 3 Gbit (this should really piss off a lot of MBP buyers if true). To think that the MBA SSD would possibly be faster than an Intel SSD in a new MBP limited with SATA 1.5 Gbit is sick (MBA has a 3 Gbit drive controller). Anyways, waiting on some answers by people who have bought one to find out if true.

On another note, I will be keeping my new MBA, and the brand new 13" MBP will go to my daughter for her birthday. Going to be way too expensive with the dang SSD in it too.

[h1d]

I'll see what I can do tomorrow. What do you mean by "the other" test?

[h1d]

There it is...
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/MacBook-Air/598/1
Let's see what kind of interesting result it will be... (My bet is hugely that rev A display works just fine on rev C attached)

[Scottsdale]

There it is...
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/MacBook-Air/598/1
Let's see what kind of interesting result it will be... (My bet is hugely that rev A display works just fine on rev C attached)

Yes, it will... the real test is what happens to the new 9C90 display when attached to the original MBA? Does it change anything? I think we may see a surprise! But I cannot test that theory as I don't have an original MBA to work on right now. If anyone can do this, I will greatly appreciate it and share the details as to why we would see some interesting results.

[justit]

It's really about removing screws and being able to reinstall....


It's not as easy as you and ifixit makes it out to be. To get to the display, you have to take the entire thing apart. Not only are there screws, there is taping that you have to remove, once you bend it, it leaves permanent markings, making your warranty void.

[h1d]

Alright, here's one fact out of test 1.

I opened both rev A and C, plugged A's display onto C (without tearing apart but just opening both and letting A display cable reroute onto C's socket...) and well, just as I imagined, lines are gone. So, anything that is not the display in rev C sounds pretty much innocent. I looked at them 2 times each, so I'm quite sure lines are gone on the same light blue solid color background image I used to check for lines.

And yes, the display swap is a p.i.t.a, period... The star shape that is supposed to be removed just won't rotate... I'm 30% giving up, but will still try some more.

Gonna attach rev C display onto A now...

[h1d]

Ok, here's the next test.

I plugged rev A onto rev C display and actually I did find the lines just like rev C alone, but this was the expected outcome, so it is almost very clear that the display IS at fault.

During the test I found 1 little interesting thing but to see the lines (at least on my rev C) the default Leopard background of the universe wallpaper can give a good way to identify the lines on the upper left corner and I saw that, before logging in, when the login screen is out, I see lines across the screen, after logging in, with the same wallpaper, the lines become less... The lines don't go all the way across but from place to place, they become basically invisible... I tried this with a brand new user, so the user has no calibration of any sort but after logging in, the lines got less.

As interesting and complicated as it can be...
Kind of tired doing the tests for now, plugging it back and forth with 2 mba's displays sitting on table... typing key reversed keys facing down... and trackpad mouse moving to other direction than intended... lol

[h1d]

About removing the display... I got to the point to remove the SSD off and it's the "Torx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx)" (as Maven pointed out [You will need Phillips P0 and Torx T6 drivers.] Didnt know what it was till I just googled) that is firmly so tightly keeping the display from going bye bye from the mobo... I guess I need that to actually do any progress beyond this point. The size is a very small one of about 1.5-2mm diameter.

[Scottsdale]

But do the ten hour test like I said with the original MBA and the new MBA's 9C90 display. My theory is the lines should change over the course of ten hours.

Does the A display look exactly the same when plugged into the new MBA as did on original?

Are you going to leave them swapped for your use?

[h1d]

I'll have to think about the 10 hours test. Sorry but where is the post you mentioned about how to do the 10 hours test?
And yes, rev C using rev A display does look like rev A using itself.

I just figured the reason for less lines after logging in could be due to change in brightness. Didn't think that'd happen after logging in.

Like I wrote, I didn't entirely swap (which is not possible due to lack of torx 6 or something). I just removed the back case, unplugged display cable, did on both and just temporarily rerouted the display output to the other. So, I wish I could entirely replace and keep it... for a perfect rev C. I think I'm getting the torx tomorrow. I reassembled them both now back in one piece.

[Scottsdale]

I'll have to think about the 10 hours test. Sorry but where is the post you mentioned about how to do the 10 hours test?
And yes, rev C using rev A display does look like rev A using itself.

I just figured the reason for less lines after logging in could be due to change in brightness. Didn't think that'd happen after logging in.

Like I wrote, I didn't entirely swap (which is not possible due to lack of torx 6 or something). I just removed the back case, unplugged display cable, did on both and just temporarily rerouted the display output to the other. So, I wish I could entirely replace and keep it... for a perfect rev C. I think I'm getting the torx tomorrow. I reassembled them both now back in one piece.

Well, a torx t6 bit might set you back a whole 99 cents... I bought my torx set for $2.99 and it included six bits from t5 to t10. Included a cheapie driver too!

Once you get the new 9C90 display in the original MBA, turn it up all the way, find a screen saver that will show bright colors, and let it run. Select the radio button to not allow dimming of the display, and set other settings so display and MBA don't sleep. You can use like the photo gallery screen saver with nature which has bright colors... or make a custom folder with a bunch of big solid colors (same colors used in a pixel checker). Let me know what it looks like afterwards... send me a PM for further clarification. It really could make a big difference for that display...

[h1d]

So, there's a good reason that this test has to occur from the rev A's output onto the rev C's display? I gotta first figure out how to swap it though... But my hunch says I don't have to disassemble everything but the torx bit... We'll see tomorrow. Time to sleep.

[LAS.mac]

This past Wednsday I was in an exam in the university where I work.
The fellow presenting is Thesis was using a MBP 15", pre-unibody.
It was hooked to the projector, and I was seeing the monitor from 3-4 m and at an angle of, maybe, 40 degrees. From my position I couldn't distinguish the figures, but I could clearly see horizontal lines of about 3-4 mm, brighter and darker. As soon as he turned off the external projector, the lines desappeared without doing anything else. I found myself thinking in Scottsdale...
Maybe the MBA lines thing is all matter of energy and power?

[h1d]

:cool: I just did it! Replaced rev A display onto rev C for "the best". Posting more info after I close the case...

[h1d]

OK... both are back in 1 piece...

Now I can see lines on rev A! And rev C got to the state where rev A was. And I must say, it's quite a work.

If anyone is willing to do but cannot afford to lose the MBA whatsoever, don't. If you're confident with your screwing (not screw up) and some decent memorizing skill, then you could give it a shot and lose lines on rev B/C if you still have rev A. (Or hell, you could even get one separately lol, if you think it's worth the price and effort... : http://www.ifixit.com/MacBook-Parts/MacBook-Air-Display-Assembly/IF188-001)

It'll take less than an hour to disassemble both and reassemble them. You need a torx 6 and a small "plus" driver, and good amount of accurate concentration. Magnetic driver saves your day. If you haven't you could reapply the thermal paste on the way too.

Just for anyone who might do, here's the brief process. (And no blame on me, if you ever screw up, by no means, I take any liability on the content, these are how I just did). If you are stuck, you're best to ask questions before something goes sorry.

1. Remove the back panel by removing the screws around.

2. Remove the battery by unscrewing all and unplug the battery cable off mobo.

3. Detach cables of HDD/SDD off mobo and unscrew HDD/SSD and remove it.

4. Remove the sound (?) and another ribbon cable off mobo near the power adaptor socket, which has a silver bracket on it, which you need to unscrew first.

You don't need to let go of the power socket adaptor, the usb/audio/display socket adaptors and the long rectangle black part below it.

5. Remove the display connector, power connector from mobo which is near the power socket adaptor and unscrew all of mobo screws and let it go off. There are a few screws hidden below thin covers.

6. Detach the black wifi chip cover on the side. Remove the 3 golden sockets going in it that leads all the way up to the display.

7. Use the torx and remove those 4. Unscrew about a dozen of small screws that holds the display and the base body.

8. Carefully take the cables that lead to the display away from the base body after removing each screws on them and the display should come off completely at this point, with 2 cables hanging out of it (Wifi and cam). (Watch out for the hinge, as both sides need good amount of force to be bent but the middle does not, thus without the display attached, you could bend it too much easily.)

9. Do same on the other MBA, swap the stuff, undo everything * 2...

I'll see what I can do with the 10 hours test thing later.

[h1d]

OK. Something I have missed but rev C now looks "yellowish" while rev A looks "whiter". I didn't realize which was how before swapping, so I'm not sure what is what at the moment.

[nvm, rev A was yellow to start with, now rev C became yellow after swap]

[Scottsdale]

OK. Something I have missed but rev C now looks "yellowish" while rev A looks "whiter". I didn't realize which was how before swapping, so I'm not sure what is what at the moment.

[nvm, rev A was yellow to start with, now rev C became yellow after swap]

My colors are excellent on new MBA display... lines seem to be gone now too! Will write more later, as I am still trying to find another one to test. I am wondering if they're just gone for awhile like when I couldn't find them for a few hours a few days, or if it's what I did to it??? Still trying to figure why this seems to be different now... but maybe all the displays need is a little "burn in" time with more power. Will report back in a few days after attempting another test.

Still would love your test on the ten hours h1d. Seriously, see if the display, while connected to an original, on full brightness, changes the lines at all over the short run or even longer??? Need some help testing this... anyone out there.

[Stormygirl]

Scottsdale, *please* don't keep us in suspense!!! Please don't wait a "few days" to tell us how you got rid of the lines on your new mba. I have been following this thread for days holding my breath waiting for someone to figure this out. And now you have, but won't tell us for several days??? Come on! I have an appt at the Apple store today to buy a new mba and would love to hear your solution! Even if it changes later on, please let us in on the secret.

[redcrow240]

why do I have the feeling that an all white screen at full backlight for a few hours will do the trick? It would be awesome if it were something as simple as that

[hitekalex]

why do I have the feeling that an all white screen at full backlight for a few hours will do the trick? It would be awesome if it were something as simple as that

Maybe that explains why all MBA's at Apple Store displays don't appear to have lines. But then again, my brand new MBA doesn't have lines either, so perhaps this issue isn't as prevalent as some think.

[aristobrat]

Maybe that explains why all MBA's at Apple Store displays don't appear to have lines. But then again, my brand new MBA doesn't have lines either, so perhaps this issue isn't as prevalent as some think.
The single MBA on display at the Apple Store nearest me is still the first generation.

[Scottsdale]

Cannot get anyone to test my simple theory of trying full brightness, while MBA is plugged in, for many hours and cycle through background bright colors. Not one person was willing to try out my test to see if there was any reduction in lines. Nor did anyone state if LED backlighting correlates to where the lines are most visible on the displays. So, unfortunately at my own speed, it's going to take me awhile to do all this, as I don't have any other MBAs available to test until this coming weekend.

No, that is not what was done to my MBA's display, but I hypothesize that it could do something for the lines???

I am not going to brag or state that I have the answer to anything yet. Bottom line, I don't have any answers yet, but my MBA isn't showing lines right now. Nor can I report exactly how to do it, because I don't know what exactly caused the lines to go away??? I was testing multiple things, and now the lines have at least temporarily vanished!

[LAS.mac]

Scottsdale, *please* don't keep us in suspense!!! Please don't wait a "few days" to tell us how you got rid of the lines on your new mba. I have been following this thread for days holding my breath waiting for someone to figure this out. And now you have, but won't tell us for several days??? Come on! I have an appt at the Apple store today to buy a new mba and would love to hear your solution! Even if it changes later on, please let us in on the secret.

As I understand, and from one of Scottsdale posts above, "...turn it [the display] up all the way, find a screen saver that will show bright colors, and let it run. Select the radio button to not allow dimming of the display, and set other settings so display and MBA don't sleep. You can use like the photo gallery screen saver with nature which has bright colors... or make a custom folder with a bunch of big solid colors (same colors used in a pixel checker)..."

So, maybe my guess that was a power issue, wasn't completely wrong...:rolleyes:

[Knipperdolling]

... of course people would like to test, at least me here, speaking for myself.
Unfortunately, I do not have my 1st Gen Air anymore to change the display, but I can report that the Rev B 1,86 SSD itself apparently does not have the power to resolve the issue by long term full brightness. Tried it, word doc open for a long time (more then 10h), changing pics as well on another day, lines happily lingering over my screen nonetheless. So if the assumption with the power holds true, it probably needs a RevA to power it.

Do "your" lines stay in place when changing the viewing angle? Mine don´t, they rather move vertically, leading me to the assumption that at least I might face some weird Moire effect.
I went to the Apple store today (Zürich), the person there agreed with me that the lines are there and well visible (he didn´t consider it as being very distracting though), on all three MBA RevB I brought in today as well as on the two Rev Cs they had on display. Mine three here (two of them belonging to colleagues, I don´t want to brag here) all 9C9A with lines, those in the store 9C90 with lines. I now have an appointment with the Genius Bar on Wednesday, I´m looking forward to the meeting and keep you informed. Doubt that anything will change though.

Scottsdale, if anything comes to your mind that I could test, I´ll gladly do so.
I am happy to hear that the lines can disappear, now we just need to find out how. Did you do any screwing or just playing around with settings and long term usage?


Edit: Uh, tried something else: Reduced background lighting does not decrease the lines, can see them still when turned down to four dots, then it get to dark to see much.

[h1d]

OK. I understand there aren't many people with A and C in hands (with the will to disassemble them both) but for a little matter of fact my MBA is for work and my main machine and I can't disassmeble and put them into dozen pieces and try this and that everyday and seriously I haven't done much work the past few days lol...

I'm setting up the work environment on the new MBA and will get to the "10 hours" later.

[Scottsdale]

Forget the idea of turning up. Hasn't worked for two people.

Now, I have to isolate three things to determine what made the lines on the display disappear.

More power was sent to it. Wires were changed. Backlighting power source was altered (I think). The weird thing is after testing, the lines were gone. I put all back to normal, and No lines.

Again I am somewhat skeptical as to the results, and until repeated should be taken without any merit. I have to have help to test again, and try different things and check if it's repeatable.

At this point, it's totally possible the lines could come back or that there is not a repeatable fix???

Need more time. If I can identify any repeat, of course I will share. Give me through Friday night to report additional details.

[Joe23]

Cannot get anyone to test my simple theory of trying full brightness, while MBA is plugged in, for many hours and cycle through background bright colors.

Scottsdale, I have lines on my 9C90 screen and would be happy to help where I can with a few more details on the tests you'd like me to run.

[h1d]

That's an envy that your lines are gone and we know you are certain the lines are gone, since you obviously badly know what the lines look like ;)

If it's possible for any of us to examine, you could list up what you have done, even theoretically, so some of us might end up getting same result to narrow it down.

[redcrow240]

Scottsdale,

As a fellow macforums member, Im very proud of your determination in figuring out this whole line issue (or at least giving it your best shot). I know how it feels to get that itch to just figure something out no matter what, regardless of what people might say. I wish I could help you from a technical standpoint (opening one up), but I dont own a macbook air yet. I am weeks away from being able to buy one. I will however, throw my dumb theories out there for all to enjoy till then.

Having said that though, could you just list the things that you did to your macbook air? At least Mentioning the steps for others to repeat them (at their discretion of course) will speed things up and greatly expand the amount of troubleshooters to figure this thing out, since it seems youre on to something. Depending on just one person with the financial ability and knowhow to tackle this is just too miopic. Lets put it out there for others (like h1d or knipperdolling) to try and speed up the whole thing.

Im sure youre not doing it on purpose, but I think you should at least give an update (with more details) at the same time you post replies to other things on the same thread. Coming here everyday to read how something you did rid the lines but you dont wanna say exactly what until youre 100000% sure is kinda annoying and tiresome :p . Not to mention its like torture for us who have been following this whole issue since the rev B's. Is inpatience just kicking in for me? Am I the only one guys? Maybe im just getting antsy cause Im weeks away from getting an air myself lol. Chime in with your thoughts guys (and gals).

[aleksandra.]

... next test, please?

[justit]

Maybe that explains why all MBA's at Apple Store displays don't appear to have lines. ....

huh? Where did you get that from? Many many ppl have reported (including myself) of seeing the lines at stores on both Rev B and Rev C.

[Scottsdale]

I will completely divulge everything including photos once have it determined. Basically, I think it needs more power to the display which somehow "activates" the display fully? Maybe it just needs this one time, and that's why I guessed that maybe by fully cycling through with bright and dark colors for a long period of time it would end in the same result???

Bottom line, I have NOT repeated anything and tests mean nothing at this point... EXCEPT my MBA doesn't have lines. Furthermore, my display was different than any of the lines I had ever seen before, so would like to do the same exact thing on one with "normal" lines. I THINK I am going to buy a new one and give it to my daughter for her birthday as she wants a "little" one like daddy has since she's little. I am going to test that one, so I actually hope it has lines... LOL!

Will have some results this weekend (maybe not until Monday though as depends on the engineer who is helping me with it). Also, testing a rev B with lines this weekend too, if my friend consents to the test.

[23isbackagain]

hi from australia - i have my air in for repair at apple. so 1st they replace the screen - dosnt look any better still has the lines . i asked for a replacement laptop and they now want to replace the logic board? why would they do that and not acknowledge the problem? are they still denying this or do overseas technicians not share data? getting really peeved with this now!

[michaelger]

Some comments from Germany: Thanks alot for that interesting thread in this forum. I was just starting to buy a newly 2,13 MacBook Air to replace my MacBook before I began to get some more Information on this new Air.

This thread on the Lines-Issue was very helpful. I couldn't believe that apple would make such mistakes in this high-price product. So last week I went to Germanys biggest consumer electronic store "Media Markt" and had a quick look at the Airs that were displayed in the store. They displayed two and both of them had the lines issue. Absolute terribly. Never saw such a crap!
I could never work with such a dipslay.

So, I will definitely wait with my buy.
Hopefully Apple will change this. Otherwise there will be no Air for me.

Good luck to all the test guys here. Maybe this will help the apple guys. It sounds really stupid for me.

[Scottsdale]

So, I have some results, and they AIN'T good. I tried exactly the same thing on another MBA with lines, and the lines did NOT improve at all. This was after trying the same things.

I have to conclude, that my opinion is the displays are faulty in some form. Perhaps it's that they're not getting enough power, but I cannot prove that. I don't believe it's the film over the displays as some have suggested based on my own MBA's performance.

Sorry I could not be of more help to anyone. It has been a true disappointment, as I really believed I was onto something. I am happy with my new MBA without lines, but I have no clue why it (the first one I tested) doesn't have lines now, if they will return, or if they're just invisible most of the time.

I definitely believe there are extreme differences in the level of lines. I have seen them ranging from unusable to only noticeable on white/gray from a few inches away. I am extremely discouraged with the MBA's display, but I absolutely love the MBA.

I am hopeful for an OLED display in the next or newest MBA when released. Sure, that's wishing for a lot, but it is a rumor and LG is the manufacturer Apple just signed a big deal with. That seems to be the only way we will get rid of these lines.

[justit]

That seems to be the only way we will get rid of these lines.

We don't need new OLEDs to make it all go away. All that does is give apple an excuse to raise prices. If apple could just get practical and bring the Rev A displays back.

Regarding the low power theory on these displays, it could be apple going overboad on power savings thinking they learned something from Rev A heat issues.

[Scottsdale]

We don't need new OLEDs to make it all go away. All that does is give apple an excuse to raise prices. If apple could just get practical and bring the Rev A displays back.

Regarding the low power theory on these displays, it could be apple going overboad on power savings thinking they learned something from Rev A heat issues.

That's just it, an OLED display uses a lot less energy. I think it's possible that the MBA would be first to get it if the rumor is true.

I think those who "upgraded" now will be disappointed that didn't wait for the "big/real" upgrade. I hope to waste more money soon on an upgraded MBA.

[h1d]

I did find the rev A with rev C display having lines, so it may not be the power, unless the display cable attached to the display that also got transferred to rev A has something to do with it.

[Scottsdale]

I did find the rev A with rev C display having lines, so it may not be the power, unless the display cable attached to the display that also got transferred to rev A has something to do with it.

I think the cable and power could be interfering with the backlighting also... I would love to have an original MBA at my disposal for testing.

[quisguous]

Does the new firmware (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7979148#post7979148) have any impact on anyone's lines?

[borrachoruso]

Does the new firmware (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7979148#post7979148) have any impact on anyone's lines?

Having MBA rev.C (SSD) with lines. Upgrade of smc firmware didn't help, lines are still there.

[Scottsdale]

I officially have given up. Tried everything again with no improvement to affected MBA display! I have tried everything except pull the display covers off. I do not believe that is the culprit but some have suggested it.

I still believe that somehow it's a power interference issue between the LED backlighting and display. Or, the display itself is not getting enough power from Mac possibly because Apple is limiting it, OR problem with wiring or interference?

My MBA (4th rev C) shows no lines currently after original testing. It was the weirdest case of lines I had ever seen. They were very faint and only on very light beigish backgrounds from 4 inches or less. After doing power testing, the lines were gone and haven't seen since??? The new one I bought for my daughter's birthday does still show the lines after everything I did to the first one. I am planning on returning it. I am going to give my kids my unibody MB to share and just stick with one MBA in the family.

[h1d]

Good job done.

[xpovos]

Well, you stuck with it longer than anyone else would have. Thank you for that. Too bad we still don't know what the deal is. Makes me feel all the better about my choice of a new MBP as opposed to a new Air. Hopefully Apple will eventually rectify this problem and I can go back to the blissfulness of the Air's weight and form factor.