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View Full Version : Palm Investment!!!!


Falleron
Dec 8, 2001, 05:33 PM
Hey there people. Check this link out!!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/23269.html

People have been going on about PDA's for so long!! Could this be apple???

Foocha
Dec 8, 2001, 07:19 PM
I think Steve Jobs has made it clear that he does not think PDAs are the way to go for Apple.

It might be in his interest to prop Palm up, since they are the only PDA to be properly compatible with Mac- although they still haven't sorted things out for OS X. Apple would only help Palm if they really had to... Perhaps that time has come?

mnkeybsness
Dec 8, 2001, 09:54 PM
i wish everyone would just quit with the pdas.

jefhatfield
Dec 8, 2001, 10:24 PM
hey buddy,

you are almost at 200 and that is impressive!

pdas are ok but apple may not be into that very well right now but give them time...another year or so

...one day you may go to work on an apple inc. scooter since they invested somewhere under 38 million in segway, but no one knows the exact amount since i have searched the internet intently

mnkeybsness
Dec 9, 2001, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
hey buddy,

you are almost at 200 and that is impressive!

pdas are ok but apple may not be into that very well right now but give them time...another year or so

...one day you may go to work on an apple inc. scooter since they invested somewhere under 38 million in segway, but no one knows the exact amount since i have searched the internet intently

shut up with the whole who's got more posts thing. i don't care. and PDAs will never have a big enough market for a relatively small company like apple. it's too big of an investment with too little of profit.

jefhatfield
Dec 9, 2001, 12:07 PM
i promise that i will not comment anymore on how many posts you have but you are the one who brought it up and said that the more posts on has, the more of a jerkoff they are which means out of three thousand members only me, spikey, john 123, kela, one of the administrators, and SPG are the only bigger jerkoffs on macrumors

but despite your dislike for overposters like me, i like some of what you say on this post even though it sometimes comes across as grouchy as the jjtwins and spikey

and remember, i am the "old man" of macrumors both registraton-wise and age-wise i'm sure, and i have learned from the beginning of this website not to take sides in the flamewars, whether it's spikey and kela vs. john123, you vs. spikey, or joeyj vs. spikey (to name a few)

but keep up the good posts because like my posts, i think some of your posts go against the "mac" grain and keep the mac zealots thinking past their own little bubble and in the end, it helps everybody involved because we are all here to learn from one another

one thing from being a techie and a former office depot computer salesman, "what makes you think that a pda won't be worth apple's trouble?"...the margin may be small but made up for in volume and like you know, you can profit from selling big ticket items like a G4 with bigger margins or small ticket items like a pda with small margin and high volume in sales

i might want to buy an apple pda but because of the two jobs i have as a tech and landscaper, i don't really see the need to have one and i am happy with my pc laptop and ibook if i need to compute on the run

if i were in travelling sales, i would keep my ibook at home and buy an apple pda for sure and i am sure there are enough of those types out there to sell millions of apple pdas if the price is right

[Edited by jefhatfield on 12-09-2001 at 01:26 PM]

oldMac
Dec 9, 2001, 01:27 PM
Right now, nobody's making much money off of PDAs. So unless Apple could really do something magical with it, it really doesn't make much sense right now.

Ensign Paris
Dec 9, 2001, 02:42 PM
There is very very little chance on an Apple PDA!

Sadly! :(

Guy

evildead
Dec 9, 2001, 03:30 PM
I didnt think that portable Mp3 players were doing all that well ether.... now everyone and there mom is trying to make them illigal or obsoleet. but Apple came out with the iPod anyway. My not saying that there is much room in the all ready over cowded PDA market for Apple. but I gues they could try and get in. I know I would buy one... but that me... a MacHead. I dont know how good it would be for the company or how good it would be for my Apple stock. but it would be cool to have one. :)

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 9, 2001, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by evildead
I didnt think that portable Mp3 players were doing all that well ether.... now everyone and there mom is trying to make them illigal or obsoleet. but Apple came out with the iPod anyway. My not saying that there is much room in the all ready over cowded PDA market for Apple. but I gues they could try and get in. I know I would buy one... but that me... a MacHead. I dont know how good it would be for the company or how good it would be for my Apple stock. but it would be cool to have one. :)

you tell em evildead. i think perhaps oldmac should consider changing his name to oldfuddyduddy. jeez whats up this guys butt? seems like you get worse with every post buddy.

the ipod is the perfect example to counter any of the arguments made against an apple pda. the thing that concerns me though is the newton. apple tried the pda thing out before and really lost out. many of us quote the cube as a brilliant product that just didnt find its niche but the newton did it first.

i never thought i would want a pda but over the course of the past year i have found myself increasingly finding a need for one. still i refuse to buy one unless apple makes it (which means i probably will never buy one).

i think a revival of the newton is just one of those rumors we all want to see come true but none of us really believe will happen. just look at all the rumors about iwalk ipad etc. the enat thing about people on apple rumor boards is that we seem to think that if we keep talking about it it will happen. hm... that didnt sound very flattering,but i love it. frankly i think apple could make a revolutionary pda that even those of us who think we would never use a pda would run out and buy and that would quickly cause palm sony and handspring to start changing how they make thier pdas.

DannyZR2
Dec 10, 2001, 03:11 AM
mnky, there will be an apple pda, but it will not be like what you see.. apple is way ahead of palm, visor, or whatever else there is..

jobs is smarter than just putting out a nice looking organizer with a color screen. once again, look at the ipod.. first it gets thrashed, then everyone actually looks at it and wants one (or two).

i can't understand why you people don't realize that apple is not just another software/hardware company. every single piece of hardware they have developed have been ahead of whatever else was out there.

Newton, best handwriting recognition still...
iMac, the most copied computer in the world...
cube, sustained 1 Gflop supercomputer in an 8" box...
iPod, smallest, fastest mp3 player/storage/(we don't know excactly what else this sweet little device can do yet..

it is clear there are more devices for the hub on the way.. i suspect we'll see one in january, and every quarter next year..

there will be a device that will serve as a pda, but will also do much more..

evildead
Dec 10, 2001, 03:27 AM
Very true... Apple is not just another tech Co. they only put out the most innvative... if there is a PDA from Apple.. it will be the best one ever... and it wont really be a PDA for that matter... the iPod is not REALLY a mp3 player.. its much better than that. Its like saying a BMW is just a car! I would like to see apple ship the BMW of all PDA's I would be the first in line at the Apple store.

DannyZR2
Dec 10, 2001, 04:20 AM
Is it not Apple's products that are being constantly copied?

I don't ever remember thinking that ever reversed compared to any other software/hardware company.

oldMac
Dec 10, 2001, 09:03 AM
AmbitiousLemon, perhaps you're right. I have noticed a rather negative tone to my posts lately.

But here's why I think the iPod is different from the PDA.

1) The iPod is aimed at a consumer market
- This is completely complimentary to Apple's best selling machines and most recently launched software titles.
- The PDA market is dominated by business folks who are required by their companies to have PCs.
- Apple is targeting home users at this point because it feels it has a much better shot at winning them over as opposed to corporate customers. If Apple can't win the minds of home users, it doesn't have a shot at corporate America.
- If corporate targeting is to come, it will come later (in 3-5 years) after OS X is more established, PC connectivity is more homogenized, processor speeds are fast enough to make emulation more realistic for daily work, etc. Apple will have to share the desktop for a good time to come in any case.

2) The iPod is a safer bet
- Millions of users currently have CD players, therefore the potential market is huge (much bigger than PDAs)
- The iPod can be used as a tool to win home users over to the Mac
- The iPod provides a safe-bet platform for experimentation in the handheld electronics area

eyelikeart
Dec 10, 2001, 10:07 AM
I'm just waiting for the day that Palm's stock goes up. I invested in a bunch of it months ago when it took a nosedive. It's so hard to decide what's going to work these days with this crippled economy, but I took a chance!

oldMac
Dec 10, 2001, 10:12 AM
Dude, you better keep an eye on things. PALM has risen about 50% in the past month.

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 10, 2001, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by oldMac
AmbitiousLemon, perhaps you're right. I have noticed a rather negative tone to my posts lately.

But here's why I think the iPod is different from the PDA.

1) The iPod is aimed at a consumer market
- This is completely complimentary to Apple's best selling machines and most recently launched software titles.
- The PDA market is dominated by business folks who are required by their companies to have PCs.
- Apple is targeting home users at this point because it feels it has a much better shot at winning them over as opposed to corporate customers. If Apple can't win the minds of home users, it doesn't have a shot at corporate America.
- If corporate targeting is to come, it will come later (in 3-5 years) after OS X is more established, PC connectivity is more homogenized, processor speeds are fast enough to make emulation more realistic for daily work, etc. Apple will have to share the desktop for a good time to come in any case.

2) The iPod is a safer bet
- Millions of users currently have CD players, therefore the potential market is huge (much bigger than PDAs)
- The iPod can be used as a tool to win home users over to the Mac
- The iPod provides a safe-bet platform for experimentation in the handheld electronics area




ah here is the oldmac i remember. i think these are all VERY good points in addition to apple already having "failed" (in quotes because the newton is still the best pda available) in the pda field. i suspect the failure of the newton has a lot to do with jobs' insistence that pdas are just toys. but in light off all this i think dannyzr2 has a point:

Originally posted by DanneyZR2
mnky, there will be an apple pda, but it will not be like what you see.. apple is way ahead of palm, visor, or whatever else there is..

jobs is smarter than just putting out a nice looking organizer with a color screen. once again, look at the ipod.. first it gets thrashed, then everyone actually looks at it and wants one (or two).

i can't understand why you people don't realize that apple is not just another software/hardware company. every single piece of hardware they have developed have been ahead of whatever else was out there.

Newton, best handwriting recognition still... iMac, the most copied computer in the world... cube, sustained 1 Gflop supercomputer in an 8" box... iPod, smallest, fastest mp3 player/storage/(we don't know excactly what else this sweet little device can do yet..

it is clear there are more devices for the hub on the way.. i suspect we'll see one in january, and every quarter next year..

there will be a device that will serve as a pda, but will also do much more..



i think apple will try to make the its pda so much more than what we currently think of a pda doing that it will target a larger audience than the corporate types. as far as the pda coming out soon... i would lean more towards oldmacs prediction: "in 3-5 years," and if less than 3 years then definitely when "OS X is more established, PC connectivity is more homogenized, processor speeds are fast enough to make emulation more realistic for daily work." and perhaps when a cube-like computer (middle of the road computer) makes its reappearance.

Foocha
Dec 10, 2001, 11:59 AM
Apple needs to focus on building existing PDA compatibility into the heart of OS X, rather than developing their own PDA in an already cluttered market.

I'd like to see OS X offering more connectivity options to Palm than Windows offers.

An iPDA app similar to iTools might be the answer.

jefhatfield
Dec 10, 2001, 12:12 PM
the corporate business market is so heavily entrenched into the windows world and mircosoft software and that is probably why there are so many posters who are against the idea of apple entereing the pda market

if apple could break into that market then there is real money to be made for sure and also the tech stocks have been rising as well as palm's stock so things are starting to get out of the financial basement and moving to the first rung of the ladder again (though not a perfect measurement of success, a company's stock value is the most reliable barometer we have to date...most unfortunate as it seems)

i would like to see an apple pda and i am sure their clever designers could come out with the first non-corporate pda device which would satisfy the largely graphics and education community and then later apple could try a corporate model

the corporate model would have to be simple and conservative since the mostly business users don't like gui and color screens as evidenced by the boring palm and its past and current dominance in the business market

an apple pda should first be very gui and colorful for its education and graphics crowd and we will see from there

the newton was just simply too far ahead of its time for the whole pda idea as was the cube most likely was

the end goal is not for great apple products but to first bring the company back into a stronger position in silicon valley and high tech in general and on the stock market and along the way, i am sure apple will make some great products for us to enjoy over the next months and years

sometimes apple holds back and doesn't give us that flat panel imac or as many usb ports as we need or that cheaply enough priced laptop, but apple still has to maintain some profit and cannot spend too much in r and d because apple does not have the deep pockets of a microsoft (apple learned that putting out the "best" product in the world will not always sell or produce a net profit as evidenced by their expensive lisa computer or the more recent cube fiasco...so i guess you quad desktop processor fans will have to wait and you dual g4 laptop fans will also have to wait)

overall, i think most of us will agree that apple is in a better financial position now than a couple of months ago but they still have a long way to go before they can even think about recapturing market share into the 10 percent bracket (and the bmw analogy works for now but remember that at one time apple was the only major player in the personal computer market)

Foocha
Dec 10, 2001, 12:29 PM
I'm not entirely convinced that education & graphics professionals are ever going to big consumers of PDAs.

Imagine lots of tiny expensive objects in a class room!

I've managed many creative types in my time, and they tend to be pretty poor at sticking to dealines & remembering meetings - the idea of them using PDAs is amusing, but seems unlikely.

Apple started doing well in '97 when they abandoned the "Not Invented Here" syndrome that had crippled them for so many years. The key to their salvation has been the adoption of industry standards like USB, BSD...

The thought of them developing an expensive, non standards-based niche product for a small bunch of designers & rich school kids sounds dangerously like a return to the bad old days.

jefhatfield
Dec 10, 2001, 12:34 PM
well it was just shot in the dark

do you think apple can make headway in a corporate palm like market right now?

if so, that would be very cool

eyelikeart
Dec 10, 2001, 12:39 PM
Maybe Palm's been up a bit, but it's still way DOWN and hasn't made me any money.....yet.

Foocha
Dec 10, 2001, 12:53 PM
Maybe Apple could develop devices tailored to vertical sectors.

Industries like manufacturing, logistics, health care and retail use handheld devices.

Apple's real strength is its rare combination of hardware design and software engineering skills, which means they're well positioned to score in the (arguably) emerging corporate device market.

I think they would really be playing to their strengths if they could land some big contracts with the likes of Fed Ex, DHL, the British National Health Service, WallMart... whatever to supply these kind of wireless GUI based stock control/inventory management/logistics tracking devices.

If they could land some contracts like these it would really polish up their tarnished b2b credentials, and add extra corporate credibility to other products in their portfolio like OS X as a corporate server platform.

evildead
Dec 10, 2001, 05:45 PM
Foocha got a point but so does oldMac.... there is not much market for Apple to be in the PDA buisness.. PDAs are for geeks and prople that actuly need them. I am just a geek... and I cant support Apple and its sharholders by my self. But... like Foocah said... if apple could land big contracts with FedEx with wilress, airport connected scanning devices and tracker... then it might go retail. A Apple pda with a attacable scanning wand or IR port built in would help IT people and anyone doing inventory... plus it could all be sent back to filemaker database. And geeks like me could get one just so i can show off to my buddyes running Palm OS or Windows CE.

oldMac
Dec 10, 2001, 06:48 PM
One of the beauties of the PDA market right now is that there *IS* no established, winning standard. That fact, IMHO, is one of the only redeeming qualities of the market.

Maybe I've got a bit of a gun-slinger mentality, but an emerging market just seems like so much more fun than something established.

The vertical market approach is an interesting one. That's actually where the newton really took hold in the past (meter reader folks, bar code scanning, etc.)

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 10, 2001, 06:50 PM
this has been a pretty damn good thread. everyone seem to be throwing out a lot of good ideas. congrats to everyone.

right now pdas are just day planners and fancy grocery lists. as wireless internet access gets better i suspect the pda will become the standard got between for many devices. so you are a professor and you have your big fancy dual g4 in your office that you design your lectures on and do your big time data crunching with. you point your ipda at your desktops ir port down load your powerpoint into your pda and go to the lecture hall and plug it into the projector outlet. lets say you forget to transfer your powerpoint project. you get to lecture. you use your wireless connection to connect to your desktop back in your office and down load the file then. let say you are upstairs in the lab. just finished collecting data from your telescope or your abi sequencer or whatever. want to take the data down to your computer in your office downstairs. connect your pda to the firewire port of your computer that runs the abi and just carry the data downstairs in your pda. look how many profs currently post all the lectures, homework, etc on the web. look how many let you email your paper to them or turn in a floppy disk. imagine how nice it would be as a prof to let your students wirelessly or ir transfer their homework from their pda to yours. no more stupid floppy disks. no more zip drives or optical drives just to carry your data from your sequencer to your dekstop. what if you are at a field station. collecting samples from traps you set, or out on a dig in montana. record all the data to your pda instead of carrying a laptop that may or maynot work in the extreme conditions in the field. i mean come on how many field locations arent either hundreds of degrees farenheit or pouring rain. field work sucks (ok i love it) and you cant carry a laptop (especially since those g4s run so hot they would overheat in most field environments).

a powerful pda could do a lot to help in education and i suspect a pda that is powerful enough to do all things i described would have applications in almost any sector. very few people sit at a desk all day and only access their data from that one point. most of us need our data with us wherever we go and need to be able to carry the data around access it from various places and record new data from some places where an ethernet connection is available. like foocha mentioned industry is very much like this. education even at the lower levels (teachers work in various classrooms and at home) is very much like this.

im not saying apple will create this pda, im just saying if they did i believe they could create a pda that would be so advanced it would be useful to more than just corporate types (and hey it might even tempt a few of the corporate types). and just think of all the ways a pda could play into your "digital hub." oooh the possibilities.

DannyZR2
Dec 10, 2001, 11:30 PM
Oh the lust!

I don't know folks, but he's got me drooling. So when does this one come out again?

agreenster
Dec 11, 2001, 10:51 AM
Yes--that will be the day of the PDA. I mean, who ever needed a PDA to go grocery shopping? (whatever happened to a piece of paper, anyway?)

When it is advanced enough that it is truly a tool to use as a go-between, wireless internet, emailer, phone, and quicktime player (hey, we can dream, cant we?) and can talk to your mac via IR, then it may be worth something. And, I think Apple truly has something like this in mind when the technology catches up. (which I think is soon) Regardless, dont think Mr. Jobs hasnt already thought of all the stuff we dream up here on MacRumors. Its just a matter of strategy, technology, practicality, and money to him.

Just my 2 cents

Foocha
Dec 11, 2001, 11:10 AM
PDAs with small hard drives (like the one in iPod) and built-in cellphone style 3G tranceivers plus Bluetooth/WiFi for local networking are definitely the way to go.

Personal view - IR is now a little long in the tooth.

Falleron
Dec 11, 2001, 03:32 PM
I dont think apple will use bluetooth - its too close to competeting with airport!

eyelikeart
Dec 11, 2001, 04:09 PM
Does anyone really think Apple is going to get back into handhelds anytime soon when their real need is to get out of this stupid Mhz slump that have been been locked into for the past 2 years?

Falleron
Dec 11, 2001, 05:37 PM
I dont believe apple will get into pda's in the near future.

Foocha
Dec 11, 2001, 06:16 PM
Airport, or WiFi may superficially seam similar to Bluetooth, but they are quite different. WiFi is designed for wireless LAN networks, Bluetooth is designed to enable different kinds of devices to communicate with each other and has a lot more built into it for this purpose. There is a role for both, and in the (unlikely) event that Apple gets into the device market, it is a protocol they are likely to consider.

mnkeybsness
Dec 14, 2001, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by DannyZR2
mnky, there will be an apple pda, but it will not be like what you see.. apple is way ahead of palm, visor, or whatever else there is..



except that jobs STATED that apple will NOT enter into the PDA market. that's final.

jefhatfield
Dec 14, 2001, 09:17 PM
let's see how this post-9/11 christmas goes and see if the ipod is well received overall this season

wait for apple's stock to go up to a respectable level and the economy to pick up some which the fed seems to think is slowly happening in high tech as undervalued stocks are being corrected back up to their real worth (which wasn't anywhere near the three digit overvaluated prices of the recent past before the bust in the high tech sector)

right now in this christmas season, an apple pda might be premature and steve jobs' saying apple won't enter the market is most likely a smart thing like mentioned above

if for some reason the IT field rebounds in the pda market, like some products do, then i think apple might consider it if it looks like it could make apple a considerable amount of revenue

i could see the pda being a part of the digital hub idea with the ipod, a pda device, and an apple cell phone sometime in the future

...until then, however, apple has to continue with their desktops, laptops, software, and ipod to keep their bread and butter money coming in

...whatever it is that apple comes out with as an innovation, it always seems there are a few posters who have brought it up in conversation as a possibility for a product

if the pda thing stays flat in the marketplace and apple forever stays away from the pda concept, i hope they can somehow bring back some reincarnation of the cube with a small footprint and quiet operation