Multi-Core ARM (iPhone) Chips Due in 2010

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/16/multi-core-arm-iphone-chips-due-in-2010/)

CNet reports (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10263278-64.html) that ARM will be delivering multi-core ARM chips in 2010, making multi-core iPhones and other smart phones possible."You'll definitely see handsets shipping with a dual-core A9 in 2010," James Bruce, wireless segment manager for ARM, said in a phone interview earlier this week, referring to the next-generation Cortex-A9 processor from ARM.The iPhone currently is believed to use the ARM Cortex A8 processor. While still a notable improvement over the previous generation ARM chips, it remains a single core device. The move to dual-core ARM chips is expected to happen "relatively quickly" and should be seen in about a year.

An ARM representative reassured CNet that the dual-core ARM A9 is actually more power efficient than the A8. "What we've done on the A9 is actually make it more power efficient than the A8. The dual-core A9 will be coming out on 45-nanometer rather than the (current) 65-nanometer process," Bruce said. Generally, the smaller the geometries, the faster and more power-efficient the processor is.
Bruce continued. "With the dual-core running at maximum load there's probably going to be an increase of about 10 to 20 percent in power consumption but in general day to day use you're actually going to see better battery life."

Article Link: Multi-Core ARM (iPhone) Chips Due in 2010 (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/16/multi-core-arm-iphone-chips-due-in-2010/)

[theheadguy]

Can't wait till these make it into the iPhones / Pres ;)

[nemaslov]

See! All you who got pissy about the upgrade price, can now happily wait until your time comes and buy a faster iPhone next year. But then everyone who purchased the 3GS now will get pissy because THEY won't get the new phone cheaper next year. Oh well . Round and round we spin. :mad:

[MistaBungle]

Didn't that one guy make a post saying that the next iPhone, as in next year, would be the one with the jaw-dropping upgrades? I think this fits the bill.

[casik]

exactally while I am waiting for the model after trhe 3GS

[alphatectz]

now this is why i sold my 2g and 3g and stuck with a blackberry bold. :D

[casik]

now this is why i sold my 2g and 3g and stuck with a blackberry bold. :D

The bold is alright, but any blackberry is still a royal pain to sync with a mac. RIM should get on it and make their own software for that.

Yes I have used pocketsync when I had my 8900, but still was a pain. There is nothing better than an iPhone and MobileMe.

[reckless2k2]

Yeah, this is great for those crying about having to pay the unsubsidized price for the 3GS. They can wait another year for dual core.

I will be paying the unsubsidized price for that model but you won't hear me complain.

[iCantwait]

ok, no 3GS for me

[InTheUnion]

When this happens will Apple start bragging about specs? or will they do what they're doing with the 3G[S]?

[TSX]

The next iPhone isn't going to have multi-core processors, because the 3gS was being tested back in Oct/Nov 2008. And with the multi core coming out in 2010 that won't be enough time to test it. I'm guessing they will start testing the next iPhone later this year.

[SatanLover]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

[JonHimself]

Perhaps this is reflective of how much time I spend on these boards but I am somewhat saddened knowing that it's only a matter of time before we see 1) "The 'Unofficial' I'm Waiting For A Multi-Core iPhone Thread" and 2) An unnecessary number of threads about how outraged people are that Apple is going to make their brand new 3G S phone obsolete and they'll have to pay full price just to get the latest piece of tech.

[alphatectz]

Yeah, this is great for those crying about having to pay the unsubsidized price for the 3GS. They can wait another year for dual core.

I will be paying the unsubsidized price for that model but you won't hear me complain.

+1, this is when i will go back to the iphone.

The bold is alright, but any blackberry is still a royal pain to sync with a mac. RIM should get on it and make their own software for that.

Yes I have used pocketsync when I had my 8900, but still was a pain. There is nothing better than an iPhone and MobileMe.

i agree, i have a mac and a pc, i used my pc for my blackberry and my mac for the iphone that i used to have.
i never liked mobile me it always erased my data and contacts and so on.

[derek1984]

What 3GS? That was so yesterday.

[Lenxal]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

No, the 3gs is a big upgrade from the 3g.
3g just added 3g, gps, plastic covering, and little other stuff while 3gs brought a lot more.
just because they look the same doesn't mean it is the same.

[JonHimself]

The next iPhone isn't going to have multi-core processors, because the 3gS was being tested back in Oct/Nov 2008. And with the multi core coming out in 2010 that won't be enough time to test it. I'm guessing they will start testing the next iPhone later this year.

Or maybe bump back the release from July to Sept/Oct in order to accomodate the supposed timetable for these? Maybe we'll see a refresh in March or so to 32gb/64gb capacities (is that reasonable? I don't know where these chips are in terms of price/avail.) and then a proper refresh after the summer.

[kyleb822]

and this is exactly why I didn't upgrade to a 3GS and stuck with my 3G, the update in 2010 will be huge compared to the one this year from the 3G to the 3GS

[eastercat]

By the time they come out with 128 GB, that's gonna be one fast sucka. :D

[casik]

+1, this is when i will go back to the iphone.



i agree, i have a mac and a pc, i used my pc for my blackberry and my mac for the iphone that i used to have.
i never liked mobile me it always erased my data and contacts and so on.

hmmm... well it will erase them if you don't have them on your computer. it does give you a warning on your phone before you sync it for the first time saying it will erase what is on your phone and replace it with what is "in the coulds" so to speak...

sync your phone with your comp, your comp with MobileMe, and then your mobile me with your phone... it works well for me! I used to have to plug my phone into the comp everytime i wanted my calander to sync and it was annoying. some days i don't sit down at the comp... i just like the push calander (among lots of other features)

anyways to keep on topic I hope the model after the 3Gs has dual core...

[Lenxal]

and this is exactly why I didn't upgrade to a 3GS and stuck with my 3G, the update in 2010 will be huge compared to the one this year from the 3G to the 3GS

Haha, and then people can say thats why they didn't upgrade to the 2010 iphone because the 2011 will be een bigger than the 2010.

[JonHimself]

No, the 3gs is a big upgrade from the 3g.
3g just added 3g, gps, plastic covering, and little other stuff while 3gs brought a lot more.
just because they look the same doesn't mean it is the same.

I guess it depends on what you use your phone for. If you've been looking for video editing the 3G S is HUGE! However, if you wanted a convergence device to get rid of the GPS in your car then the 3G was also HUGE (bad example because of the GPS improvements in 3G S, but hopefully my point is somewhat clear).
As much as I want a better camera and video, for now I can tolerate not trying to upgrade my 3G to a 3G s (for now, that may change when I see people using the cool features) but that's just me... I'm sure there are tons of people who deperately want to upgrade to the 3G S from their 3G just as there were from the original to the 3G

[iGeRmAn]

3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

Are you joking ???

[eastercat]

Maybe we'll see a refresh in March or so to 32gb/64gb capacities (is that reasonable? I don't know where these chips are in terms of price/avail.) and then a proper refresh after the summer.
Personally, I don't recall Apple doing a refresh or capacity bump before WWDC. However, there's a first time for everything.

[labrats5]

I don't believe this for a second. I remember them saying that cortex-A8 phones would be coming out end of 2007, then mid 2008. Now It is mid 2009 and we have exactly 1 cortex-A8 phone on the market (the palm pre) with the iphone about to follow. next-gen ARM phones never deliver on time. They can't, because there are too many people involved. There is ARM itself, which designs the core. Then there is TI, Samsung and many others who then build an actual SOC around the core, which in itself is dependent on many other factors. Then there are the device manufacturers who need to integrate these cores into their products. And this isn't exactly a drop-in die replacement we're talking about: these smartphones are herculean efforts of engineering.

No silicon vendor is sampling cortex-A9 chips, not even in limited quantities. It takes roughly a year from sampling to an actual svelte smartphone. I would say that 2011 is optimistic, 2010 unrealistic.

[mikeinternet]

When this happens will Apple start bragging about specs? or will they do what they're doing with the 3G[S]?

I don't see them bragging about specs that the entire industry is all going to get simultaneously.

[mobi]

Multi-Core Arm = Mobile Productivity = :)

[nanvinnie]

i have the original iphone. i don't need a new but i do want the new 3gs. it makes sense to buy it as soon as possible so that i can qualify for the subsidized price after 18 months... i'm thinking by then, the new dual core should be ready. in a way, the faster you buy, the better chance you have to get the subsidized price for future revisions.

[Epix]

The next iPhone isn't going to have multi-core processors, because the 3gS was being tested back in Oct/Nov 2008. And with the multi core coming out in 2010 that won't be enough time to test it. I'm guessing they will start testing the next iPhone later this year.
If you reread the article it says that dual core processors will begin being delivered (ie mass produced) in 2010, meaning that Apple would have access to pre-production chips well before that.

[JonHimself]

Personally, I don't recall Apple doing a refresh or capacity bump before WWDC. However, there's a first time for everything.

No, and they haven't. I just mean if these new chips won't be ready (pure speculation) to get into a phone for a traditional June/July release maybe they will give us a small bump in March-Apri (rather than a huge one in June/July) then wait for these chips to be ready for an Oct launch of a the 4th gen phone.

[nemaslov]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

Im getting my 3GS this week (already shipped) having come from my first gen. The crying issue is rediculous and overblown. I will get great usage and enjoyment of of this device for two years or so. Yes there will probably something newer better quicker but if you love it....

[PeckhamBog]

I'm happy with the feature set of the 3GS.
1st gen iPhone was a wonderful lead on a phone interface, 2nd gen had better speed and gps.
3rd gen finally adds video and voice dialling to bring it bang up todate with other 2003 (!!!!!) phones. I'm ready now to enter the market after holding off for two years (it's been difficult). After between two and four years, I'll look to upgrade and pass the 3GSs (wife and I) to my children [if the world hasn't been brought to a conclusion by then].

[NinjaHERO]

I can't wait to see how much this improves the specs of the next phone. Good times.

[vassillios]

unless apple replaces my 3G for a 3G S in the future, due to malfunction or something, i'll be skipping the 3G S and will gladly take posession of a dual core iPhone next year.

[H$R]

That sounds good, but as others said, it might get delayed. And then you end up waiting even longer before upgrading.
I will buy my first iPhone 3GS this summer and enjoy the speed and camera for now. Faster things will come anyway.

Who knows, maybe it's the iPhone 4G with and upgraded chipset and more storage next year and an iPhone 4GS with faster speeds, and 128 GB of memory in 2011.

But I think if I had the 3G I wouldn't upgrade now either.

[Darth.Titan]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

You got that backward. The 3G was a pretty minor upgrade. It added:

3G radio
GPS


The 3G[S] added:

Faster Processor
More RAM
Storage increase
Magnetometer
Voice Interaction
Video function


While it's too early in the existence of the iPhone to say for sure, it appears to be on a "tick-tock" upgrade cycle. A minor upgrade (tick) followed by a major upgrade (tock). 3G ticked, and the 3G[S] is a tock. I predict next years tick will add perhaps one new hardware feature (front camera maybe?) and maybe a storage bump. Dual core processors will be ready for use by the 2011 "tock" upgrade.

Also, don't look for any major changes to the appearance on a regular basis. Apple is known for their "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude when it comes to design. (See Mac Pros, Mac Mini, etc...)

[JayLenochiniMac]

Personally, I don't recall Apple doing a refresh or capacity bump before WWDC. However, there's a first time for everything.

Didn't we get a capacity bump to 16 GB in 1st generation iPhone?

[dam0dred]

I thought Apple was going to be designing their own chips for future iPhones... isn't that why they acquired PA Semi? Or am I mistaken here.

[JonHimself]

I thought Apple was going to be designing their own chips for future iPhones... isn't that why they acquired PA Semi? Or am I mistaken here.

No that was for Apple's DVR, I mean game console, I mean tablet, I mean car radio... wait, I've gone too far. :D

[JayLenochiniMac]

Given Apple always being slight behind hardware-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if next year they do just a case redesign and add a couple of new features (like original to 3G) and in 2011 they do a major upgrade internally (like 3G to 3G S).

[SatanLover]

No, the 3gs is a big upgrade from the 3g.
3g just added 3g, gps, plastic covering, and little other stuff while 3gs brought a lot more.
just because they look the same doesn't mean it is the same.

most of the extra things the 3gs has, the 3g will also get with 3.0

[Incindium]

I wonder how forward thinking apple has been with the iPhone OS when it comes to multi core/ multi threading support. Actually utilizing the multiple cores taking advantage of the added power may take more work that one would expect.

[kasei]

Regardless, my 1st gen phone needs to be replaced. The 3GS will tie me over until the 4th gen phone has been out for a while. If anything it gives me something to look forward to.

[stade1979]

No Iphone 3gs for me, will stay with my Iphone 3g for now.

[kironin]

See! All you who got pissy about the upgrade price, can now happily wait until your time comes and buy a faster iPhone next year. But then everyone who purchased the 3GS now will get pissy because THEY won't get the new phone cheaper next year. Oh well . Round and round we spin. :mad:

So True...:D

Well now that I know what my next iPhone will be sporting under the hood, I am at peace with not having the GS.

Looking forward to THAT upgrade....
then I will be able to chuck my Flib video camera.

patience is a virture, I will survive till then and enjoy it all the more.

[greenpaz]

Isn't the nature of technology to always be wanting the next big thing? 3GS owners will salivate over next year's model. And next-year's-model owners will be green with envy when the 2011 iPhones come out. And so on and so forth. The only variable, in terms of the depth of one's envy, is the level of their self-esteem.

[igazza]

Wonder what apple is doing with P.A Semi ........

[iMJustAGuy]

Seriously MacRumors? Just stop. Let's enjoy the one thats not even freaking out yet. Damn.

[Lenxal]

most of the extra things the 3gs has, the 3g will also get with 3.0

No compass, autofocus, video, video editing, voice control

[Bubba Satori]

Who wants to start the "Waiting for multi-core iPhone" thread in the forum ? :D

[zap2]

The only variable, in terms of the depth of one's envy, is the level of their self-esteem.

haha, you're a funny one! My self esteem has nothing to do with me wanting the iPhone 3GS despite me having a 3G. I want it because its a better device and I'm a nerd, so these things attract me!

[walnuts]

Looks like the big upgrade next year will be to a dual core processor (perhaps with further internal refinements based on Apple's chipmaker acquisitions) and then in 2011 the big update will be to LTE internet (based on AT&T's rollout plans). I think the 3GS will be a great to have while waiting for two years for a dual core, LTE device (with network!).

[Conan1111]

I'm perfectly happy with my iPhone 3G and would rather wait another year for a significant update to the iPhone. The 3Gs is nice but I don't see the need to fork out $599 to update.

[Manie Frizzle]

finally news about the 4th gen iphone. only problem? it's gonna be a long year.

[HiRez]

I think this is where the iPhone is really going to take off and leave its rivals in the dust. Apple has spent a lot of resources on optimizing OS X at all levels for multiple cores in recent years, and while Palm, RIM, etc. can also use these multicore chips, and will no doubt have some threadable applications, I seriously doubt their tech will be anywhere near what Apple has because they haven't put in the time/effort/$ yet. Something that it's hard to just cram in on a tight schedule trying to play catch-up.

[musio]

next year's keynotes will read something like this..

"announcing, our new iphone 3SS (super speed!) it's not x4 faster instead of x2 faster...it's so fast, it knows what you are going to do in the future and opens the app before you touch it!

one more thing....we now have the speed for background apps....steve, would you like to come out and demo this?"

crowd goes wild, the networks rub their hands for the money.

[walnuts]

If they do put use the dual core processor in next year's iphone, isn't this going to have a big impact on the App Store? Its gonna get really confusing for consumers (this app requires 3G S MC or later?) and annoying for developers to choose whether to design to use the newest tech or not screw people with older devices.

[Nym]

This year I'm holding on to my 3G.

Next year I expect a multi-core iPhone with true multi-tasking and a revamped UI (nothing revolutionary, Apple is and has always been about gradual product evolution so let's not delude ourselves).

I figure that now that Apple has sorted out most of the laughable non-features like MMS or Copy/Paste they have time to start thinking ahead and come up with some neat UI changes.

For instance, I'd like the summerboard (is that what we call it?) to adjust when I flip to horizontal, maybe an App Cover Flow or something that at least shows some UI feedback from the device. Another example is a much needed customizable lock screen with important information accessible without having to "slide to unlock".

IMO, the 3GS is a transition product and I think we'll see the next big iPhone next summer.

[Consultant]

Whatever. There will always be something new in the future.

Guess what, a year from now, there will also be something new in the future, so would you wait forever?

[chasemac]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

exactally while I am waiting for the model after trhe 3GS

But even then there will be some other proccessor waiting in the shadows.

[Epix]

If they do put use the dual core processor in next year's iphone, isn't this going to have a big impact on the App Store? Its gonna get really confusing for consumers (this app requires 3G S MC or later?) and annoying for developers to choose whether to design to use the newest tech or not screw people with older devices.

You don't see any apps now for PC and Mac that require multi-core processors. Recommended, but not required.

[Moonlight]

The next iPhone might have an Apple created processor. Remember, they bought that chip company a year or so ago...

[Razeus]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

I'm going to pretend you didn't say that.

[benwillis0612]

I figure that now that Apple has sorted out most of the laughable non-features like MMS or Copy/Paste they have time to start thinking ahead and come up with some neat UI changes.

For instance, I'd like the summerboard (is that what we call it?) to adjust when I flip to horizontal, maybe an App Cover Flow or something that at least shows some UI feedback from the device. Another example is a much needed customizable lock screen with important information accessible without having to "slide to unlock".

I'm slightly unsure here but wouldn't Apple release this as iPhone 4.0 instead of with an entirely new iPhone?

[Ironduke]

apple could use this chip in two ways

1. programming for everything to take advantage of both cores, and thus increasing speed by a huge margin. (but this would require multicore programming which has been available on PC + Mac for years and hasnt really come into its own)

2. Use 1 core for the system, and the other for 3rd party apps, this should prevent slowdown in system performance.

[QCassidy352]

You got that backward. The 3G was a pretty minor upgrade. It added:

3G radio
GPS


The 3G[S] added:

Faster Processor
More RAM
Storage increase
Magnetometer
Voice Interaction
Video function


don't forget more megapixels, autofocus, and nike+ support on the 3G S. But yes, your point is right - the 3G was the tick, and the 3G S is the tock.

[Bubba Satori]

Safari 5 will be s........ I'm not going to say it. :D

[8-Bits]

OK, it's settled then we will all cancel our orders for the 3GS and wait for the dual-core ARM iPhones with multi-tasking; a front facing camera; and using Verizon's 4G network. :rolleyes:

[kas23]

All this thread is (and ever will be) are people who bought the 3Gs saying multi-core isn't going to make it into the 2010 iPhone and people who are waiting for the 2010 iPhone saying its going to blow the 3Gs out of the water. Plus a sprinkling of people saying the 3Gs isn't a huge upgrade and the people who just bought one getting all uppity. How predictable the Apple world is....

[ALUOp]

I thought the next iPhone would feature an Apple processor.

[sushi]

How predictable the Apple world is....
That much is certain. :)

There will always be something new in the pipeline. That's the nature of technology. The key is to purchase what you need now. Those who purchase a 3Gs will have the best iPhone available until the next model is released.

However, if you wait for the latest and greatest, you will end up waiting forever and never get to enjoy technology.

[andrewsd]

I guess it depends on what you use your phone for. If you've been looking for video editing the 3G S is HUGE! However, if you wanted a convergence device to get rid of the GPS in your car then the 3G was also HUGE (bad example because of the GPS improvements in 3G S, but hopefully my point is somewhat clear).


THE HUGE IMPROVEMENTS ON THE GPS ARE IN THE 3.0 SOFTWARE.. Yes the compass helps but its not so much the hardware. Tom Tom is case in point .. It is for the iPhone 3g as well as iPhone 3gs.;)

[.:R2theT]

This year I'm holding on to my 3G.

Next year I expect a multi-core iPhone with true multi-tasking and a revamped UI (nothing revolutionary, Apple is and has always been about gradual product evolution so let's not delude ourselves).

IMO, the 3GS is a transition product and I think we'll see the next big iPhone next summer.

I agree.

And don't forget updated features such as 64 GB, OLED screen and more bluetooth functionality!

[andrewsd]

For instance, I'd like the summerboard (is that what we call it?) to adjust when I flip to horizontal, maybe an App Cover Flow or something that at least shows some UI feedback from the device. Another example is a much needed customizable lock screen with important information accessible without having to "slide to unlock".

IMO, the 3GS is a transition product and I think we'll see the next big iPhone next summer.
I agree I'm holding on to my 3g and I think you are referring to SPRINGBOARD.

[chrmjenkins]

I don't believe this for a second. I remember them saying that cortex-A8 phones would be coming out end of 2007, then mid 2008. Now It is mid 2009 and we have exactly 1 cortex-A8 phone on the market (the palm pre) with the iphone about to follow. next-gen ARM phones never deliver on time. They can't, because there are too many people involved. There is ARM itself, which designs the core. Then there is TI, Samsung and many others who then build an actual SOC around the core, which in itself is dependent on many other factors. Then there are the device manufacturers who need to integrate these cores into their products. And this isn't exactly a drop-in die replacement we're talking about: these smartphones are herculean efforts of engineering.

No silicon vendor is sampling cortex-A9 chips, not even in limited quantities. It takes roughly a year from sampling to an actual svelte smartphone. I would say that 2011 is optimistic, 2010 unrealistic.

First, the headline is a little misleading. ARM doesn't "deliver" the technology in the way most people are thinking of, as they are fabless and don't sell their bare processors. They license their cores to people like texas instruments and samsung who build SoCs out of them. Before any traditional smartphone maker gets these cores, they have to wait fora SoC to be ready for sampling, then they have their own period of development. The only two people that can avoid this as I see it are samsung and apple since they both license the cores and make the phones and therefore having the ability to development technology at a faster rate than those who must wait for SoCs.

That being said, I don't see Apple as fearing Samsung for major smartphone market share (they've got RIM and potentially Palm to worry about). Therefore, they won't feel pressured to put out an A-9 phone in 2010 because it will alienate 3GS buyers and quickly segment iphone users into 3 hardware categories. A much more sensible upgrade scheme has them pushing out an A-9 iphone in 2011, about the time we can expect to see the first A-9 devices from competitors.

[Fenix85]

All this thread is (and ever will be) are people who bought the 3Gs saying multi-core isn't going to make it into the 2010 iPhone and people who are waiting for the 2010 iPhone saying its going to blow the 3Gs out of the water. Plus a sprinkling of people saying the 3Gs isn't a huge upgrade and the people who just bought one getting all uppity. How predictable the Apple world is....

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'll even prove you right and say it's very possible this processor wont make it into the iPhone till 2011. Apple isn't really known for incorporating cutting edge technology. They like spreading out upgrades such as GPS, 3G, ARM Cortex8, etc. I doubt next year they'll come out with something revolutionary such as multi-core, OLED, front facing camera, etc. They can easily spread this out over 2 years and still people will buy the phones every year. Why put all your apples in one basket.

I did buy a 3G S but only because my 1st gen is on its last leg. I don't upgrade out of the need for newest and greatest. I buy when my devices become unusable. Whatever comes out next year I'll be excited for, but it doesn't mean I'll act anywhere as immature and irrational as the some of the people around here have been.

[MacSlut]

Personally, I don't recall Apple doing a refresh or capacity bump before WWDC. However, there's a first time for everything.

The original iPhone had a 16GB bump on the high end before the 3G came out. This was in February 2008. I remember because I really wanted to upgrade to it, but decided to be patient and wait for the 3G.

I'm upgrading to the 32GB 3G S, and see it as a slightly bigger bump up from the 3G than the 3G was from the original.

And yes, I'll most likely be upgrading yet again a year from now.

[HiRez]

they won't feel pressured to put out an A-9 phone in 2010 because it will alienate 3GS buyers and quickly segment iphone users into 3 hardware categories. A much more sensible upgrade scheme has them pushing out an A-9 iphone in 2011, about the time we can expect to see the first A-9 devices from competitors.I agree that it'll likely be 2011 before we see a multicore iPhone, but how will going multicore segment iPhone users? Multicore capable apps should still run on single core iPhones, they just won't run potentially as fast or as efficiently. Likewise, multitasking is certainly still possible on the current single core iPhones, it's just not ideal. So I don't think developers (including Apple) need to break anything existing to support multicore.

[OriginalMasta]

right.....when you wait for this coretex A9 processor to come for the iPhone 3Gs2, the A10 will be out the year after. :rolleyes:

If you want to keep up with thelatest and greatest, fork over the money plain and simple. You keep holding off on these high tech devices, you are just going to be missing out.

Who knows, a meteor could end the world a month from now. I'd rather enjoy what I can now. Technology is way too fast to hold on too.

And what the hell do you want your iPhone to do that it doesn't already do very well even with the 2G model????

[nuckinfutz]

I agree that it'll likely be 2011 before we see a multicore iPhone, but how will going multicore segment iPhone users? Multicore capable apps should still run on single core iPhones, they just won't run potentially as fast or as efficiently. Likewise, multitasking is certainly still possible on the current single core iPhones, it's just not ideal. So I don't think developers (including Apple) need to break anything existing to support multicore.

You guys act like Apple's in a smartphone vacuum or something. If an ARM Cortex A9 is available for a phone in 2010 then there's going to be a vendor using it. Apple doesn't have the luxury of resting on its laurels here.

Just like Core Data started out in Mac OS X and then migrated to the iphone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Grand Central Dispatch migrate to the iPhone once there's a need to manage more than one core.

also the the premise in your quoted response is absurd. With 2 contracts folks should know what they're getting into. You got a subsidy on your phone if the new hotness comes out the next year you contact your provider to see how much an upgrade. Apple doesn't have to give a **** about alienating you as they cannot help that some people have fragile psyche and get offended by forward progress.

[chrmjenkins]

You guys act like Apple's in a smartphone vacuum or something. If an ARM Cortex A9 is available for a phone in 2010 then there's going to be a vendor using it. Apple doesn't have the luxury of resting on its laurels here.

Just like Core Data started out in Mac OS X and then migrated to the iphone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Grand Central Dispatch migrate to the iPhone once there's a need to manage more than one core.

also the the premise in your quoted response is absurd. With 2 contracts folks should know what they're getting into. You got a subsidy on your phone if the new hotness comes out the next year you contact your provider to see how much an upgrade. Apple doesn't have to give a **** about alienating you as they cannot help that some people have fragile psyche and get offended by forward progress.

Of course there's going to be a vendor using it, which we've acknowledged (for instance, TI has already announced OMAP4xxx), but that doesn't mean those SoCs are going to be tested and ready to go in phones by then.

Just because the premise of people being alienated is absurd is predicated on their own ignorance doesn't render it untrue. Moreover, when you tout something as a gaming platform, rapidly upgrading the hardware is not going to please anyone. It would be like microsoft or sony releasing a new console every year where the new games are never guaranteed to work on old systems. They need to space out the upgrades a little more.

Besides, Apple has already demonstrated they are content to wait, as better technology was available when they released the 3G.

[Goona]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

[buccsmf1]

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

agreed. the 2nd gen upgrade was the joke. 3G was added and it wasn't even usable for many people until the last 6 months. GPS was added but they didn't have a turn-by-turn app.... making it virtually worthless. and that was about it.

3G is strong in most areas now. the processor and camera get a significant boost. turn-by-turn coming, mms coming. IMO, this is a much bigger upgrade than the 2nd gen was.

[nuckinfutz]

Of course there's going to be a vendor using it, which we've acknowledged (for instance, TI has already announced OMAP4xxx), but that doesn't mean those SoCs are going to be tested and ready to go in phones by then.

Just because the premise of people being alienated is absurd is predicated on their own ignorance doesn't render it untrue. Moreover, when you tout something as a gaming platform, rapidly upgrading the hardware is not going to please anyone. It would be like microsoft or sony releasing a new console every year where the new games are never guaranteed to work on old systems. They need to space out the upgrades a little more.

Besides, Apple has already demonstrated they are content to wait, as better technology was available when they released the 3G.

You kind of think that this statement from page 1

"You'll definitely see handsets shipping with a dual-core A9 in 2010," James Bruce, wireless segment manager for ARM, said in a phone interview earlier this week, referring to the next-generation Cortex-A9 processor from ARM.

Now 2010 could mean Jan 1st or December 31st we don't know but ARM has had the specification up for the MPcore A9 for a while. It's likely taped out and undergoing testing now.

As for Apple waiting. Don't believe the hype

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/05/21/apple.arm.cortex.job/

They wouldn't be looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming. We can all be doubting thomases with just about anything we have to discuss but I tend to follow the technical trend which in smartphones is anything but conservative.

[thouts]

I'm still getting the 3GS *First iPhone for me* THEN when my contract is up in 2011, we'll have 4G networks, AT&T's contract will be up with Apple, and I'll be able to get a Verizon iPhone.

Right?

[stevejobbers]

The next iPhone isn't going to have multi-core processors, because the 3gS was being tested back in Oct/Nov 2008. And with the multi core coming out in 2010 that won't be enough time to test it. I'm guessing they will start testing the next iPhone later this year.

i'm sure if Apple wanted they could get their hands on a big ol' batch of these to test with. in fact, i'm sure of it.

[Phil A.]

agreed. the 2nd gen upgrade was the joke. 3G was added and it wasn't even usable for many people until the last 6 months. GPS was added but they didn't have a turn-by-turn app.... making it virtually worthless. and that was about it.

3G is strong in most areas now. the processor and camera get a significant boost. turn-by-turn coming, mms coming. IMO, this is a much bigger upgrade than the 2nd gen was.

Ah, but you're forgetting that it also added a plastic back, and by virtue of the fact it looked different, it was a much bigger upgrade than one which keeps the same appearance and changes the entire internals :D

I had pretty much decided to skip this generation because of the upgrade costs mid contract and the fact that I can't really justify / afford over £500 on a cell phone right now but the more I read about the 3GS the more I realise what a big upgrade it really is and I'll probably get one next month...

[Jonny75]

ok, no 3GS for me

Every year the next best thing will come out.

If you need a new phone and fancy the iPhone get a 3GS. Otherwise stick with what you've got.

It's the same for desktops and laptops. Or any technology for that matter.

[Jonny75]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'll even prove you right and say it's very possible this processor wont make it into the iPhone till 2011. Apple isn't really known for incorporating cutting edge technology.

Considering some of the "new" iPhone features are those in every phone since 2005, I think you're bang on.

[chrmjenkins]

You kind of think that this statement from page 1

"You'll definitely see handsets shipping with a dual-core A9 in 2010," James Bruce, wireless segment manager for ARM, said in a phone interview earlier this week, referring to the next-generation Cortex-A9 processor from ARM.

Now 2010 could mean Jan 1st or December 31st we don't know but ARM has had the specification up for the MPcore A9 for a while. It's likely taped out and undergoing testing now.

As for Apple waiting. Don't believe the hype

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/05/21/apple.arm.cortex.job/

They wouldn't be looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming. We can all be doubting thomases with just about anything we have to discuss but I tend to follow the technical trend which in smartphones is anything but conservative.

My skepticism is rooted in the fact that when talking dates, technology in this field is usually late. Nvidia promised tegra handsets late last year. We're still waiting. The OMAP3xxx was announced early 2006 (http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=88913) , yet we're just now seeing it be delivered in handsets. Seeing as how Cortex-A9 was announced late 2007, and OMAP4xxx this February, I find a 2010 date for any A9 device to be very optimistic.

They are looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming because their current 3GS has a cortex processor. You can't necessarily read anything further into that other than that they want to optimize to their new phone.

[nemaslov]

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

And actually I was very happy to not upgrade to the 3G when it was released. My wife bought one and my original iPhone always lasted several more hours each day battery wise. And the 3G in San Francisco was not that much faster. Really.

[nuckinfutz]

My skepticism is rooted in the fact that when talking dates, technology in this field is usually late. Nvidia promised tegra handsets late last year. We're still waiting. The OMAP3xxx was announced early 2006 (http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=88913) , yet we're just now seeing it be delivered in handsets. Seeing as how Cortex-A9 was announced late 2007, and OMAP4xxx this February, I find a 2010 date for any A9 device to be very optimistic.

They are looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming because their current 3GS has a cortex processor. You can't necessarily read anything further into that other than that they want to optimize to their new phone.

I agree on parts of this. It'll be interesting to see if the MPcore A9 is able to be fast tracked or not. At any rate I'll remain optimistic but closer to neutral. Tegra's delays should be a hint to other vendors that it's not as easy to come in and eat ARM's lunch as it appears.

Thanks for the well reasoned rebuttal. We'll see soon enough what 2010 offers. I'm due for my first iphone regardless of whether it's single or dual core.

[chrmjenkins]

I agree on parts of this. It'll be interesting to see if the MPcore A9 is able to be fast tracked or not. At any rate I'll remain optimistic but closer to neutral. Tegra's delays should be a hint to other vendors that it's not as easy to come in and eat ARM's lunch as it appears.

Thanks for the well reasoned rebuttal. We'll see soon enough what 2010 offers. I'm due for my first iphone regardless of whether it's single or dual core.

As far as I can tell, the delay of Tegra being adopted is not due to the product not being ready, but simply handset manufacturers haven't picked up on it yet. I made that statement not to show that technology is delayed in being ready, but it was to show Nvidia's own predictions about when their SoC would be used were incorrect. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be neat to see A9 phones in 2010, but I don't think it makes sense for Apple in 2010.

[Glideslope]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

Your persisting in delusion, simply for the satisfaction. :apple:

[iSee]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

That does not compute!

We'll all still be happily enjoying our 3gs's, despite the arrival of the 4th gen iPhone. Remember, we're the ones that didn't feel we had to upgrade when the 3G came out -- we're the ones that are OK not always having the latest and greatest.

[flottenheimer]

Oh, this wont keep me away from a 3GS.

You know, in 2011, a chip twice as fast as the A9 will be released. The year after that - 2X again...

[mgsolidsnak3]

Cortex A8 was released 2 years ago and it was introduced this year on the iphone/pre. So if A9 is released in 2010 dont expect anything before 2011/2012.

This pattern seems to hold for ARM processors and phone manufacturers for some reason (most probably cost)

[wackymacky]

Just hope the battery in my 3G holds out another year.

[nuckinfutz]

Cortex A8 was released 2 years ago and it was introduced this year on the iphone/pre. So if A9 is released in 2010 dont expect anything before 2011/2012.

This pattern seems to hold for ARM processors and phone manufacturers for some reason (most probably cost)

I agree but it appears that Cortex A8 and A9 cores were developed concurrently rather than being more of a generational gap

http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/533694

http://www.arm.com/news/19207.html

Making it a tad more feasible that a mid 2010 launch can happen IMO

[Justinf79]

I expect the possibility of this dual-core chip to debut in the rumored Mac tablet device. :)

[tempusfugit]

expect the possibility?


thats some strong language.


im waiting for the iphone with a built in blu ray drive and a roller skate attachment so i can ride it to work.





on a serious note, no flash/wireless n/background processes = no new iphone purchase for me

ill wait at least another year. maybe two (depending how my 3g holds up)

[mikejfrd]

and this is exactly why I didn't upgrade to a 3GS and stuck with my 3G, the update in 2010 will be huge compared to the one this year from the 3G to the 3GS


Yeah hahaha that's what everyone was saying about the 3gs 2 weeks ago!! LOL!!! That's technology folks!!! Always changing, always getting better. If you tried to always have the newest and best thing out there, you would go broke!

[twoodcc]

looking forward to this! should be just in time for the next iphone too!

[brop52]

Yeah hahaha that's what everyone was saying about the 3gs 2 weeks ago!! LOL!!! That's technology folks!!! Always changing, always getting better. If you tried to always have the newest and best thing out there, you would go broke!

I'm just going to wait until 2015. I hear the phone is just installed inside your brain and you just think about who you want to call and it happens. There is even a mini ringer attached to your inner ear so that only you can hear it. O and the phone will be powered by neurotransmitters so it has unlimited battery life.

[hbenitez09]

I highly doubt now though that this time next year a new iphone would be announced maybe it would be given a quite update nothing to big maybe just the faster processors and that's about it.... There has to be a point in time where rolling out with a new iphone every year stops being profitable for both apple and att that is as long as the iphone remains exclusive to att next year if apple does decide to unlock it and go with any wireless carrier then year i can keep seeing major updates once a year. Until then i think small updates would be coming yearly with drastic ones coming every two years

[Pooshka]

3G S? Nah, thank you. :D

[iansilv]

Perhaps this is reflective of how much time I spend on these boards but I am somewhat saddened knowing that it's only a matter of time before we see 1) "The 'Unofficial' I'm Waiting For A Multi-Core iPhone Thread" and 2) An unnecessary number of threads about how outraged people are that Apple is going to make their brand new 3G S phone obsolete and they'll have to pay full price just to get the latest piece of tech.

Done. :D

[akutad]

See! All you who got pissy about the upgrade price, can now happily wait until your time comes and buy a faster iPhone next year. But then everyone who purchased the 3GS now will get pissy because THEY won't get the new phone cheaper next year. Oh well . Round and round we spin. :mad:

+1.... There is always going to be bigger, better faster. The question is can you be content with what you have. Welcome to the "I want it now" society.

[bigwig]

A much more sensible upgrade scheme has them pushing out an A-9 iphone in 2011, about the time we can expect to see the first A-9 devices from competitors.
Why would Apple give their competitors time to catch up? Waiting for them to get the same tech you do seems silly. What was the point of PA Semi then?

One of the things I hope to see with a dual-core ARM is real multi-tasking replacing the silly one-app-at-a-time BS.

[flottenheimer]

Off-topic, but... Any news, on FLASH for iPhone? (3GS only?)

[DELLsFan]

See! All you who got pissy about the upgrade price, can now happily wait until your time comes and buy a faster iPhone next year. But then everyone who purchased the 3GS now will get pissy because THEY won't get the new phone cheaper next year. Oh well . Round and round we spin. :mad:

Oh, and don't forget these future phones may also have the matte back and front facing, iSight cameras too. :D

This, plus AT&T's exclusivity coming to an end = much better choices and hopefully better prices for consumers.

[chrmjenkins]

Why would Apple give their competitors time to catch up? Waiting for them to get the same tech you do seems silly. What was the point of PA Semi then?

One of the things I hope to see with a dual-core ARM is real multi-tasking replacing the silly one-app-at-a-time BS.

I don't think that's as big a concern as you make it. If they were that concerned with what everyone else was doing, they would have had MMS and many other things on day 1. They're quite comfortable rolling out features at their own pace.

PA semi is so that they can make their own SoCs. While it should mean shorter time to market, you shouldn't assume that they want to rush stuff to market. If they have control over the SoC, they have an advantage in cranking out the best features they need with none that they don't at the lowest power draw possible. That's what PA semi is about.

Multi-tasking has nothing to do with CPU power and everything to do with precious battery life. Many consumers would prefer to have the choice whether or not they sacrifice that, but to say this move is uncharacteristic of Apple would not be honest.

[DARKiLLUSiON]

this is purely rumors
my buddy knows people from inside of Apple and Futureshop (Canada)
and they told him the 4G will be out as soon as next year January
but pricing will be much higher and he was told to get the 3G s now because
it'll cost much more for a 2 or 3 years(contract)
I'll just take all these 4G rumors as a grain of salt..I'll believe it once I see the
real thing just like the 3G s

[bigwig]

Multi-tasking has nothing to do with CPU power and everything to do with precious battery life.
Two cores at the same TDP or thereabouts would seem to solve that problem, no?

[chrmjenkins]

Two cores at the same TDP or thereabouts would seem to solve that problem, no?

In reference to a dual core A9 device, a honcho at ARM referred to it having higher peak power draw but lower average power draw.

[TroyBoy30]

kewl. I get a new phone every year any way. I'll use my 3gs for a year, then get the new one when it comes out. Then get the new one the year after, and so on and so on

[kaneda]

could this be for tablet mac (netbook) instead of an iphone? :)

[chrmjenkins]

could this be for tablet mac (netbook) instead of an iphone? :)

If they so chose. It can be had in up to 4 core versions, and they could clock it in excess of 1 Ghz.