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jbuser
Jun 17, 2009, 08:39 PM
I'm adding lyrics to a score in Logic Studio. Everything is cool as long as all the melody notes are on a single staff. However, if the region has two staves (e.g. bass clef & treble clef) and the melody crosses middle C (i.e. changes staff), the lyrics input won't recognize the notes on the other staff. That is, if I put the lyric object below the bass clef staff, and the next note in the melody is above middle C (up on the treble clef staff), when I hit Tab to input the next syllable, the cursor skips all the melody notes on the treble clef and goes straight to the next note that's back on the bass clef. If I put the lyric object between the two staves, Tab skips over any notes on the bass clef staff. I could just use one staff, but the melody is pretty much centered around middle C so if I do that, there will be a bunch of notes either above or below the staff (depending on which clef I use) so it's easier to read if I use two staves. Any ideas? TIA.

Jeff



ChrisA
Jun 18, 2009, 07:01 PM
I'm adding lyrics to a score in Logic Studio. Everything is cool as long as all the melody notes are on a single staff. However, if the region has two staves (e.g. bass clef & treble clef) and the melody crosses middle C (i.e. changes staff), ...

I think the real answer is one you don't want: Check out Finale or Sibelius.

Does Logic allow you to write in "Alto Clef"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef#The_alto_clef

hakukani
Jun 18, 2009, 10:46 PM
I'm adding lyrics to a score in Logic Studio. Everything is cool as long as all the melody notes are on a single staff. However, if the region has two staves (e.g. bass clef & treble clef) and the melody crosses middle C (i.e. changes staff), the lyrics input won't recognize the notes on the other staff. That is, if I put the lyric object below the bass clef staff, and the next note in the melody is above middle C (up on the treble clef staff), when I hit Tab to input the next syllable, the cursor skips all the melody notes on the treble clef and goes straight to the next note that's back on the bass clef. If I put the lyric object between the two staves, Tab skips over any notes on the bass clef staff. I could just use one staff, but the melody is pretty much centered around middle C so if I do that, there will be a bunch of notes either above or below the staff (depending on which clef I use) so it's easier to read if I use two staves. Any ideas? TIA.

Jeff

It's conventional to write songs in treble clef, even if it is sung an octave lower. IIRC, logic will do leger lines.

dLight
Jun 19, 2009, 12:13 AM
I'm adding lyrics to a score in Logic Studio. Everything is cool as long as all the melody notes are on a single staff. [...] Any ideas? TIA.

Jeff

This is maybe the way it is because in a piano clef situation, the chords are normally in the bass clef and the melody in the treble clef. I guess the "cure" is pretty simple: just select a single stave clef for your track while entering lyrics, and switch back to piano clef when you're done.


I think the real answer is one you don't want: Check out Finale or Sibelius.
Why?

Does Logic allow you to write in "Alto Clef"?

Of course. The alto clef is needed for viola and alto sax...

pkoch1
Jun 19, 2009, 03:41 AM
It's conventional to write songs in treble clef, even if it is sung an octave lower. IIRC, logic will do leger lines.

I don't know where that is conventional regardless of instrument or range. If the OP is adding lyrics, it is most likely a vocal part, which is often written on a treble clef, tenor clef, alto clef, soprano clef, bass clef etc. It all depends on what makes it easy to read by the range of the instrument or voice.

Why? Because Finale and Sibelius are made for writing scores, rather than a DAW like Logic or Digital Performer that just have notation as a feature. If you try it out, you won't ever want to worry about formatting a score through Logic again.

Of course. The alto clef is needed for viola and alto sax... Viola sure, but the alto sax is generally written in treble clef.

ChrisA
Jun 19, 2009, 12:08 PM
Why?

He does not want to hear this because Sibelius is expensive and is yet one more software package to learn.

It might be the answer because it truely is better for creating publication quality sheet music. Here is an example if inputting words in a muti-staff composition
http://www.us.sibelius.com/products/sibelius/movies/text.html

dLight
Jun 20, 2009, 12:14 AM
Because Finale and Sibelius are made for writing scores, rather than a DAW like Logic or Digital Performer that just have notation as a feature.

Such comments are always interesting, because when someone who just wants a DAW comments Logic, and finds something he may think Logic is missing, he'll say that Logic isn't really a DAW, it's just a continuation of Notator, which was a MIDI/Notation program. :-)



If you try it out, you won't ever want to worry about formatting a score through Logic again.

I've tried both Sibelius and Finale - even bought a version of Final at some point, but gave it up due to it's (then) awkward user interface.

They are both dedicated score apps, and both have some nice and important stuff that Logic doesn't, but in my experience (I've used both Logic and Notator since they came out), Logic is very close to being able to do what what most people need, and in many cases offers a lot more than I think most people need.

The weak points aren't about basic stuff like clefs, but about stuff like:

Slurs (or tremolo signs) aren't attached to notes

Automatically shown accidentals are sometimes shown erratically. Sibelius is better here (but accidentals can of course be edit manually in Logic)

True global objects that can be locked to bar position are missing

Too many rests show up (by default) in polyphonic mode

Symbols or text can't (in an easy way) trigger change of articulations

These are important features for people who actually use the score editor for more than basic stuff. Still, many users have been able to produce useful results with Logic (see below for a random example I saw a link to in a forum).

http://logicprohelp.com/files/velho_119.jpg

hakukani
Jun 20, 2009, 12:23 PM
This is maybe the way it is because in a piano clef situation, the chords are normally in the bass clef and the melody in the treble clef. I guess the "cure" is pretty simple: just select a single stave clef for your track while entering lyrics, and switch back to piano clef when you're done.



Why?



Of course. The alto clef is needed for viola and alto sax...

Alto sax is NEVER written in alto clef. (I've played sax for 43 years) It's transposed up a major 6th, and read in treble clef.

Songs written for solo singers are almost always written in treble clef, regardless of the vocal quality or range (soprano, alto, tenor, baritone, bass), and the singer sings it in their range--generally male voices singing the part an octave down, or rarely, at pitch, depending on the tessitura.

Choral music is written with the soprano and alto in treble clef (yes, the alto gets plenty of leger lines below middle C). Tenor and baritone/bass parts are generally written in bass clef. In some older manuscripts you might see some tenor parts written in tenor clef, but certainly not music from this this and the previous century. Also, sometimes you'll see a tenor part written in either a double treble clef, or a single treble clef with an 8 hanging from the bottom of the clef sign.

Regardless, the vocal part should be written in one clef or another. It should not change clefs. It just makes it more confusing to read.

Otherwise dlight, you're absolutely correct. The OP should not need finale or sibelius (yes, I have and have used both).

jbuser
Jul 21, 2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks for all the advice. What I finally ended up doing was switching to a single staff (treble clef), adding the lyrics, and then adding the second staff back (bass clef). Now the melody crosses staves the way the singer (who is originally a pianist by trade) wants it, and the lyrics are in between.