PDA

View Full Version : Fitness Center Logo for C&C




Designer Dale
Jun 17, 2009, 09:34 PM
I redesigned the logo for my gym as a favor, and here are the results.
If they post in the right order, 1 is the original, 2 is the accepted version, 3 is "Can you do that in blue,red and yellow?" and 4, the green badge, is my favorite.

Dale

BTW, Does anyone know how to make multiple uploads show up in the right order?



SwiftLives
Jun 17, 2009, 10:20 PM
To be brutally honest, I'm not really impressed with any of the logos. Personally, I think you need to continue exploring some different concepts.

Here's some unsolicited advice. Kill the color. Then play with the logo strictly in black and white. No gray. No shades. Only black and white. That will give you an opportunity to explore various basic forms and typography without the influence of color schemes so you can really nail down the form of the logo.

From a pragmatic perspective, you need to consider how the logo is going to be used. And frankly, how the logo will reproduce. See how it will look shrunken down onto a business card. Or how it will reproduce when put on the copier. Or faxed. How does it look blown up as signage? Will people be able to read it when zooming by in a car? Also - what is the most important part of the logo? Spanaway? Fitness Center? Family? How do they want to market themselves?

Good luck.

Designer Dale
Jun 18, 2009, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the input. This is a small time club. It is family owned and is marketed as a family fitness center. The forms here are the ones that were the best of a bunch of examples that started as pencil sketches. I did each of the ones that made it this far in 4 color, 2 color and black only so they could be used in a lot of different ways. They are Illustrator files, so they will scale, but I see what you mean about form. Would the form be good at sign size. Something to think about. The first one, the original that I worked from is used as both a sign and BC. The owner liked the simple blue and black version, so I will not be revising this. But I do want to hear if it is any good or not.

Dale

bluetooth
Jun 18, 2009, 02:49 AM
Here are some comments and tips, I hope you find them helpful.

Simple is sometimes better.

A complex logo can be difficult to reproduce and more importantly, difficult to remember. Not sure what the purpose of the lines are, other then to create a complex illusion, possibly motion?

A logo doesn't have to convey what your company does. Think the McDonald's Golden Arches. No hamburgers. While sometimes having a logo that portrays an element of the company is appropriate, it's often better to have a logo that's graphically void of detail - a logo that can be adapted to whatever direction the company takes. Think the Apple logo. True, it is an apple. But there's no indication that it belongs to a computer company. That's a pretty cool thing - the Apple logo looks just as cool on an iPod as it does on the top of a Powerbook.

Size matters.

As the other poster eluded to, your new logo needs to reproduce at a variety of different sizes - particularly on the smallish side. Overly complex logos like the ones you have done here can 'gum up' when reproduced as a very small image. Think business card, fax header. How about a key chain? Or a ballpoint pen? Take a look at the Nike 'swoosh'. Not a very dynamic logo but it is recognizable on a shirt sleeve on the television where a complex logo wouldn't be. Think of your logo as a mega-sized image as well. Like on a facade or store front. Knowing how your logo is going to be used, both in size and media, can help with designing a logo that's appropriate in terms of complexity.

Aspect Ratios.

The aspect ratio (the relationship between the height and width of a logo) is critical. A logo that is oblong or misshaped (as seen in two of your concepts) is not visually pleasing, and you'll end up with all sorts of layout issues when it comes to setting up your logo in artwork, especially when combined with other graphic elements (ie: business card, websites, etc). A logo that is closer to a 'golden mean' (almost the aspect relationship of a business card) is much more pleasing and more adaptable to working in other artwork. Square is pretty cool too - circle logos are very strong visually due to their 'square aspect ratio'. For further reading, search "Golden Mean" OR "Golden Ratio" and "Design" in a search engine.

Colour is a secondary factor in your logo.

The most important part of your logo project is the design itself. Oh sure, it's nice to see your logo in the colours that you will eventually use, but in the initial stages of any design process the colours are of secondary importance. They can always be changed,or edited later. I would definitely stay away from gradients. Once you have the fundamental design and template in place, you can discuss colours and their purposes - whether you utilize a two spot colour, or four colour process design, this should come secondary to the intial layout and artwork.

Designer Dale
Jun 18, 2009, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. This is just what I'm looking for. I tend to make things complicated and lean toward color and design rather than first thinking of the intent and working from the simple up, if at all.

My first sketches of this were text only with a few bars to separate things. I wanted to maintain the oval from the original for no real reason and overdid it. I honestly never thought of starting a design with a business card sized workspace to restrict me to what is most easily recognizable.

It's important to me to do something on my own and then ask for comments rather than developing something on the fly with the aid of D&G.

Thanks again. I may rework this over the weekend.

Dale

a cat *miaow*
Jun 18, 2009, 04:29 PM
You've got really good feedback above so i'm not going to repeat it.

If you look at the original – yes it's horrible, but it does say 'family'. I think this is a very important concept which you've completely ignored. The logo needs to show it's a family centre in a clear and friendly way.

Your current ideas don't convey any meaning, if you remove the words and asked people to guess what it was for what do you think they'd guess? I can't think if you asked 100 people a single one would come back with 'fitness centre'.

THX1139
Jun 19, 2009, 01:22 AM
I really need to stop clicking on these "help me with my logo design" threads. It gives me a headache looking at what people think is good design. I also find it annoying that people are so willing to do work for free or as favors. Remember that when you do something for nothing... the result is usually worth nothing.

My guess is that you did no research on concept, nor did you even bother with thumbnails to explore multiple ideas (based on your research). What about type research? Grid? Hierarchy? Relationships? Meaning? Color palette? Does the logo work in one color? Nah... I didn't think so. You probably spent most of your time in Illustrator playing with the rotate tool thinking "gee, this is looking pretty cool." Sorry if I offended but I wanted to be honest with you and anyone else thinking that design is just a fun thing to play with.

By the way, the original design is horrible... but you haven't done anything to improve it.

IgnatiusTheKing
Jun 19, 2009, 06:58 AM
I don't want to be overly negative, but I just don't understand this logo. It doesn't convey "family" or "fitness" at all. What is this swirly icon supposed to mean and how did you get to this point?

Kwill
Jun 19, 2009, 08:09 AM
If "2" is the accepted version, someone is being way too kind.

Reminds me of what was produced with my childhood Spirograph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirograph). In actuality, it employs simple Illustrator blends.

The design should not depend upon effects. Here's a test: convert the logo to simple black and white -- no gray -- and take a look. Does it look good large that way? Does it hold up at 72 pixel square? Does the design make sense to anyone?

bluetooth
Jun 19, 2009, 03:31 PM
This gives you a good example of how the design process should work. Note how all of the logo concepts work in one colour and how colour can then be added as a secondary feature. It is also a good idea to aim for at least 4 individual concepts as seen below (individual concepts do not include variations in colour, rather variations in the fundamental deisgn).

There is also nothing wrong with searching the internet for fitness logos to gain some inspiration. The design process should start before your hand hits the pencil and paper or mouse and keyboard.

I found these on flickr

KeithPratt
Jun 20, 2009, 09:02 AM
I also find it annoying that people are so willing to do work for free or as favors. Remember that when you do something for nothing... the result is usually worth nothing.

Is the assumption here that no money=nothing? It really annoys me when people assume value is only expressed in monetary terms.

wallaby
Jun 22, 2009, 03:57 PM
Is the assumption here that no money=nothing? It really annoys me when people assume value is only expressed in monetary terms.

I think THX is responding to the general view that design costs nothing, which we designers find very frustrating. Too often online we see threads of people asking for help with some logo "for a few bux" when the true professionals in our industry won't work for less than $1000 per logo, if that. These are, of course, bigger clients with bigger budgets.

Sometimes its worthwhile to design something for somebody if it will get your name out there, like for a well-known or up-and-coming non-profit organization. But if it's for some small business with no perceived benefit, we designers can't really be arsed to work on it. We have bills to pay too. :p

ezekielrage_99
Jun 22, 2009, 06:56 PM
I found these on flickr

And all of those icons can be downloaded from iStockphoto ;)

THX1139
Jun 23, 2009, 04:45 AM
Is the assumption here that no money=nothing? It really annoys me when people assume value is only expressed in monetary terms.

Gee, do you know any other way to put food on the table or buy clothes for your kids than to charge for your services?

I stand by my conviction that if you are willing to work for nothing doing design, then you can't expect to produce anything that I would consider having any real value. Don't take my word for it, look around the web or this forum and get back to me if you find any logo design that is both good and done for nothing. To do effective logo design, you have to invest the time to develop it. If you find anyone willing to invest that time and not get paid, then the chances are that the person doesn't know what they are doing and the results will be crap.

SwiftLives
Jun 23, 2009, 07:06 AM
Good. Cheap. Fast.

Pick two.

THX1139
Jun 23, 2009, 05:09 PM
Good. Cheap. Fast.

Pick two.

Good + Fast = Expensive

Good + Cheap = False

Cheap + Fast = Crap

Designer Dale
Jun 23, 2009, 10:46 PM
I have been waiting for this to die down before posting part two of my slack design, but the conversation is interesting.

It may well be true that a lot of design done at no charge is not commercially viable, but not a cut and dried case. This forum has offered small tweaks to an electrical logo that a designer did for his brother and it was quite good. A logo for a home health care operation came up here too, and didn't really need anything added.

I understand the need to earn money and the desire to have value placed on your talent with a cash sum. I want to augment my retirement with design work. I know that illustration is my weak point and I'm not going to do hack work and charge for it. I have too much respect for design.

In my eyes, the free=trash view is like saying volunteer work has no value.
Contractors building houses for Habitat for Humanity work for free.
The guides and docents at the zoo, aquarium and museum work for free.
Did Obama pay for his campaign logo? I don't know. Does it have value now, yes. Quite a portfolio piece for a young designer.
Did Harvey Milk pay for the design of the Rainbow flag? No, according to the designer interviewed in the movie. It was done to promote a cause.

Slack design will always be with us. It shows up in my mailbox and stuffed in my paper all the time. Rest assured that I wont add to it.

Dale

THX1139
Jun 24, 2009, 12:52 AM
In my eyes, the free=trash view is like saying volunteer work has no value.
Contractors building houses for Habitat for Humanity work for free.
The guides and docents at the zoo, aquarium and museum work for free.
Did Obama pay for his campaign logo? I don't know. Does it have value now, yes. Quite a portfolio piece for a young designer.


I knew that eventually someone would bring up this point in an effort to justify work for free. It doesn't fit the discussion because there is tremendous VALUE in doing pro bono or work for reputable organizations for your portfolio or as a tax write-off. That type of work demands quality design! What I have been talking about in my posts is doing cheap/free work for small business establishments that are looking to build their business on the cheap. That usually results in crap design. There is a HUGE difference between doing a logo for a great organization such as Habitat For Humanity, than for your local Fitness Center that charges services for a profit. However, I do have one caveat. The more famous the non profit institution is, the more money they have to hire reputable designers. Plus, they have an image to protect so they won't let just anyone design a swirly spiral thing in Illustrator and call it a logo.

THX1139
Jun 24, 2009, 01:04 AM
I think THX is responding to the general view that design costs nothing, which we designers find very frustrating. Too often online we see threads of people asking for help with some logo "for a few bux" when the true professionals in our industry won't work for less than $1000 per logo, if that. These are, of course, bigger clients with bigger budgets.

Sometimes its worthwhile to design something for somebody if it will get your name out there, like for a well-known or up-and-coming non-profit organization. But if it's for some small business with no perceived benefit, we designers can't really be arsed to work on it. We have bills to pay too. :p

Well said! Especially the part about doing work for non-profits (if you support the cause). Even then, one needs to commit to investing as much time as if you were charging full rates. The world is cluttered with crap design that people weren't willing to invest time in, or they just didn't know what they were doing. Hey, my cousin knows the computer! Maybe I'll have him design the logo to my new business!

chaosbunny
Jun 24, 2009, 06:17 AM
Good + Fast = Expensive

Good + Cheap = False

Cheap + Fast = Crap

Good + Cheap = takes a long time, sometimes. Depends on the cause of course. I sometimes do flyers/posters for a very small local art club. They don't pay much, sometimes nothing at all but are very thankful. And I usually have a couple of weeks to come up with something, and they usually take what I offer and don't complain. That way I can do it whenever I have an idea, or I can practice some new skills with these projects.

You have a point though too of course.

a cat *miaow*
Jun 24, 2009, 08:24 AM
Is the assumption here that no money=nothing? It really annoys me when people assume value is only expressed in monetary terms.

Value of work? Yes it can easily be expressed in monetary terms.

Money is not some evil thing everyone always seems to love making it into. You do work and the time you spend should be COMPENSATED in some way or another.. the easiest and clearest compensation method being money.

Of course there are times when you will do work for less money or free, but there still is a form of compensation which you should be happy about. For example I currently did a job for a charity which I was happy to do for a small percentage of my normal rate because i'm happy to give my time to the charity. You may do work for free to build a portfolio, in that case you are benefiting by having a good portfolio. It's the way of the world – always has been and for better or worse always will be.

KeithPratt
Jun 24, 2009, 08:36 AM
Gee, do you know any other way to put food on the table or buy clothes for your kids than to charge for your services?

I stand by my conviction that if you are willing to work for nothing doing design, then you can't expect to produce anything that I would consider having any real value.

Has all this logo design caused you to see the world in black and white?

How someone earns their money is not the point. The point that has been adequately made already is that good work is often done for reasons other than money. I just finished making a video for a friend (I don't design logos). No money changed hands, but did I put less effort in and treat it like something that would never have value? No I did not.

Value of work? Yes it can easily be expressed in monetary terms.

The difference being between "can" and "only".

Money is not some evil thing everyone always seems to love making it into.

Nobody in this thread has suggested so. Money is a means to an end. On its own it's just pieces of paper and metal.

For example I currently did a job for a charity which I was happy to do for a small percentage of my normal rate because i'm happy to give my time to the charity.

Exactly. That's a non-monetary value.

THX1139
Jun 24, 2009, 01:15 PM
Has all this logo design caused you to see the world in black and white?

How someone earns their money is not the point. The point that has been adequately made already is that good work is often done for reasons other than money. I just finished making a video for a friend (I don't design logos). No money changed hands, but did I put less effort in and treat it like something that would never have value? No I did not.

If you would have read my post (up 4), you would see that I basically said the same thing as you. However, the main issue I have said since my first post is that USUALLY (not always) businesses, friends, charity, etc., are looking to get services done for free and that type of work USUALLY (not always) gets done by amateurs or people who think it would be fun, or maybe just to get some practice. I've done my share of pro bono work and worked just as hard as if I were to charge my full rate. The value was that the finished piece went into my portfolio, I felt good for helping out, and I used it as a tax write-off. I don't have a problem with a professional doing work like that. What I do take issue with is when a business is so cheap that they talk an amateur into doing the work for free or only for their portfolio - and the results turn out like crap. It devalues the design profession and the business who winds up with a bad logo. Just because you are doing the work for free doesn't mean that you should, especially if you don't know what you are doing.

Years ago when I was first starting out, I got a referral to do a web site for a non-profit. They wanted to see my portfolio and asked me all kinds of questions about my experience. I was a bit put off because they were being very picky considering that they were asking me to do the work without paying me. I wound up not getting the project and it sort of made me mad. Years later, I see why they were so picky (because they wanted to protect their image) and I have respect for that. At the time, I probably wouldn't have done a good job because I didn't know what I was doing and had no business even talking to them about it.

a cat *miaow*
Jun 24, 2009, 01:29 PM
Exactly. That's a non-monetary value.

Yes I know that's why I said it. Try reading the whole post properly next time (if you need to read aloud to yourself to make it easier to understand then that's good too).

THX1139
Jun 24, 2009, 01:30 PM
Value of work? Yes it can easily be expressed in monetary terms.

Money is not some evil thing everyone always seems to love making it into. You do work and the time you spend should be COMPENSATED in some way or another.. the easiest and clearest compensation method being money.

Of course there are times when you will do work for less money or free, but there still is a form of compensation which you should be happy about. For example I currently did a job for a charity which I was happy to do for a small percentage of my normal rate because i'm happy to give my time to the charity. You may do work for free to build a portfolio, in that case you are benefiting by having a good portfolio. It's the way of the world always has been and for better or worse always will be.

You bring up some good points. Nowadays, I even charge non-profits but only for discounted labor and at-cost materials. Why? It keeps everyone honest with their integrity and keeps my services from being devalued. Plus, even non-profits get something out of what they do, so why shouldn't I get some sort of compensation too? However, if I'm that passionate about helping them out, maybe it would be better to donate money so that they can hire someone to do the job!

KeithPratt
Jun 24, 2009, 01:48 PM
Yes I know that's why I said it. Try reading the whole post properly next time (if you need to read aloud to yourself to make it easier to understand then that's good too).

How could I have misunderstood when we're in agreement?