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I used to think they had crappy bass too, but since they have the volume control, I used them with my new Shuffle anyway. Then recently, I pulled out my old Sennheiser CX300s and gave them a listen. After a few months of using the Apple buds, the CX300s sounded ridiculous. The bass was cartoonishly over exaggerated by comparison. I feel the Apple buds, while perhaps still a tad lean in the low end, represent a far more natural and realistic reproduction of music the way it was intended to be heard.