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MacRumors
Jun 23, 2009, 08:45 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/06/23/atandt-unleashes-turn-by-turn-gps-app/)

Yesterday, we profiled (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/06/22/turn-by-turn-gps-apps-begin-to-appear-gokivo-sygic-navigon/) several turn-by-turn GPS applications that have appeared in the App Store over the past few days. Today sees the addition of a new GPS app for U.S. customers, this time from AT&T. AT&T Navigator [App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=315659984&mt=8), Free plus $9.99/month subscription] offers full-featured turn-by-turn GPS navigation with traffic data, automatic map updates, and advanced search functions. Features include:

- Voice-guided and 3D onscreen GPS navigation keeps your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road
- Automatic rerouting will get you there even if you miss a turn
- Regular map updates are automatic and included so you never have to purchase updates.
- Real-time traffic updates and one click rerouting saves you time on your daily commute
- Searching for gas by price saves you money at the pump
- Enter an address from your iPhone or from the convenience of your computer before leaving home. Search AT&T Navigator for the closest coffee house, ATM or Wi-Fi hotspot along with ratings from a listing of over 10 million business listings.

AT&T Navigator is unique in that, rather than utilizing in-app purchasing via the iTunes Store, the subscription is automatically added to the user's monthly AT&T wireless bill. The technique sidesteps Apple's policy of taking a 30% cut of sales taken through the in-app purchasing method. While users may appreciate that the monthly charge is included on their AT&T bill, they should also be aware that simply deleting the application does not cancel the monthly subscription. Users will need to contact AT&T directly in order to end their subscription to AT&T Navigator.

Article Link: AT&T Unleashes Turn-by-Turn GPS App (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/06/23/atandt-unleashes-turn-by-turn-gps-app/)



Speedracer04
Jun 23, 2009, 08:49 AM
Monthly subscriptions blow.

I would much rather pay a 1 time $90-$100 fee. Thats what I did for my TomTom, why should this be different...:mad:

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 08:51 AM
So how can they support this and not MMS? This would take FAR more bandwidth than MMS. Ohhhh thats right, they wont make any more money on MMS since its already included in text plans.

Once again, AT&T showing its greed. Does it even run landscape mode?!

NightStorm
Jun 23, 2009, 08:56 AM
Monthly subscriptions blow.

I would much rather pay a 1 time $90-$100 fee. Thats what I did for my TomTom, why should this be different...:mad:

The monthly subscription plan is a common model for cell phone provided turn-by-turn GPS applications. That said, Navigon and TomTom will likely continue to use their single payment approach (Navigon has already confirmed this with the release of MobileNavigator Europe).

co.ag.2005
Jun 23, 2009, 08:56 AM
So how can they support this and not MMS? This would take FAR more bandwidth than MMS. Ohhhh thats right, they wont make any more money on MMS since its already included in text plans.

Once again, AT&T showing its greed.

damnit, a capitalistic company wants to make money :eek:

I'm glad Apple are a fair company and give their products away instead of trying to make money. I hear Verizon even wishes they didn't make money, stupid ATT...

I think monthly subscription based navigation apps are dumb and would rather pay a one time fee. I wonder if ATT's app would keep maps on the phone or download them in real time over the cell network. I hope not...

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 09:00 AM
damnit, a capitalistic company wants to make money :eek:

I'm glad Apple are a fair company and give their products away instead of trying to make money. I hear Verizon even wishes they didn't make money, stupid ATT...

I think monthly subscription based navigation apps are dumb and would rather pay a one time fee. I wonder if ATT's app would keep maps on the phone or download them in real time over the cell network. I hope not...

Your reply makes no sense at all. First you ridicule me for saying they are greedy, then you make your argument by showing their greed. How are they giving their product away exactly? You have to PAY TO USE IT!!!!! Not to mention, you have to pay MORE to use it than other apps that GIVE YOU their maps, and dont stream them. Ya you lost cell coverage.. there goes your navigation!

zapbryann
Jun 23, 2009, 09:01 AM
has anyone bought this/given it a try? i start my delivery job today in a newer town i dont know as well, so this would be perfect.

reckless2k2
Jun 23, 2009, 09:03 AM
$120 PER YEAR for this?!?!?!?!

I hope and pray that TomTom will not charge for a subscription service especially considering they will be charging for hardware as well (gotta have the dock!).

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
has anyone bought this/given it a try? i start my delivery job today in a newer town i dont know as well, so this would be perfect.

The description of the product is horrible. Does it work in landscape? Does it download the maps and keep them on your phone or erase them - streaming maps is HORRIBLE.

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
$120 PER YEAR for this?!?!?!?!

I hope and pray that TomTom will not charge for a subscription service especially considering they will be charging for hardware as well (gotta have the dock!).

Not having to stream maps is worth the money. I dont get why cell providers want you streaming maps for navigation, then come on the other hand and whine about MMS bandwidth.

Unreal.

co.ag.2005
Jun 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
Your reply makes no sense at all. First you ridicule me for saying they are greedy, then you make your argument by showing their greed. How are they giving their product away exactly? You have to PAY TO USE IT!!!!!

I was being very sarcastic. Every company wants to make money, so why is ATT greedy for making its customers pay for a navigation app? If it strengthens their bottom line, they will do it. Verizon and Sprint offer the same thing... ~$10 / month navigation applications on their phones.

Friends?

Auzburner
Jun 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
Do I have to pay $10/mon for all of my iPhones? I hate monthly subscriptions. I want to pay a good amount to allow Turn-by-turn on ALL of my four iPhones on my family plan. First one in the App store, that's quality wins!

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 09:11 AM
Do I have to pay $10/mon for all of my iPhones? I hate monthly subscriptions. I want to pay a good amount to allow Turn-by-turn on ALL of my four iPhones on my family plan. First one in the App store, that's quality wins!

Pretty sure you will have to yes.

mdgolom
Jun 23, 2009, 09:18 AM
So how can they support this and not MMS? This would take FAR more bandwidth than MMS. Ohhhh thats right, they wont make any more money on MMS since its already included in text plans.

Once again, AT&T showing its greed. Does it even run landscape mode?!

MMS = No Revenue
GPS = Revenue $$$

At this price ($9.99/month), I would rather just buy a stand alone GPS. Most of them for a nominal fee offer updated maps and such.

mattwolfmatt
Jun 23, 2009, 09:22 AM
I was being very sarcastic. Every company wants to make money, so why is ATT greedy for making its customers pay for a navigation app? If it strengthens their bottom line, they will do it. Verizon and Sprint offer the same thing... ~$10 / month navigation applications on their phones.

Friends?

I agree. $10/month for turn by turn GPS is standard. Sarcasm doesn't come through well through forums.

If you think it's a bad app or don't want to use it, don't! Nothing is forcing you to buy it. It's the beauty of capitalism, the government doesn't force companies or citizens to do anything. Capitalism weeds out the winners and the losers naturally. Just look at the car companies. ;)

dkhenkin
Jun 23, 2009, 09:24 AM
Someone post a review if they get it!

maconspace
Jun 23, 2009, 09:26 AM
The AT&T navigation looks far better than Verizons navigation (former Blackberry Storm user here - don't even think about switching to a Storm, you'll be sorry). I love my iPhone 3Gs.

I have no problem with paying for the service.

mattster16
Jun 23, 2009, 09:27 AM
Looks like a fairly decent app, too bad it has monthly fee pricing. I'm not a fan of that. I'll be waiting for Garmin's app (unless it turns out to suck and tomtom is way better).

FSUSem1noles
Jun 23, 2009, 09:28 AM
Is this why MMS got delayed to who knows when? because they were too busy coming up with this? :rolleyes:

iGary
Jun 23, 2009, 09:29 AM
Not interested in a "subscription" model myself. I'll wait for TomTom with a bottle of Lube™ at the ready.

btcutter
Jun 23, 2009, 09:30 AM
Should probably allow customers to order the ATT GPS services on $0.99 per 24 hrs. It would go down easier.

If I were AT&T, I would even say that there will not be roaming charges for GPS data services or something like that to attract customers using it internationally. This would attract some people who may only need the services in Canada or Europe for a few day and won't need to buy the entire package.

mattwolfmatt
Jun 23, 2009, 09:31 AM
So THIS is what they were doing instead of writing the tethering software!

Master Atrus
Jun 23, 2009, 09:31 AM
The first thought I had when I read this was ... "and that explains why we don't have MMS or tethering yet." Wow!

Of course I know this was handled by a different department ... but that really takes the fun out of my complaining doesn't it?!?!?!?

d21mike
Jun 23, 2009, 09:34 AM
Absolutely no way will I pay $10 per month. I will pay a one time charge and then maybe a periodic charge to get new maps. Hopefully TomTom or Garmin do this as they have done with other phones.

Seamaster
Jun 23, 2009, 09:35 AM
At this price I would rather just buy a stand alone GPS.

That's why AT&T's business model for this app is doomed.

jedijoe
Jun 23, 2009, 09:37 AM
yeahh!!! $10 more per month. awesome. i can't wait to pay another $10 for MMS and another $60-$70 per month for tethering. In the end, I'd like to be paying AT&T around $500 a month for being such a freaking cool company.

D-Man18360
Jun 23, 2009, 09:43 AM
That's why AT&T's business model for this app is doomed.

I think there is a niche for this, and it's for people who don't own GPS units and instead of buying one for $100 plus, they enable the feature for $10, go to their location and use it (say a weeks vacation in some unknown area), and then cancel their subscription since they don't need it anymore.

Could this be done (go a month when needed), or is there some other language not allowing this?

gber
Jun 23, 2009, 09:50 AM
Here is some info from AT&T web site: FAQ

What is needed to use AT&T Navigator?
An AT&T Navigator approved mobile device, AT&T network coverage, and either a monthly subscription to the service or a day pass. We also recommend a data rate plan for route information as standard data charges apply.

What devices is AT&T Navigator available on?
AT&T Tilt, AT&T Quickfire (CTX75), BlackBerry 8110, BlackBerry 8800, BlackBerry 8820, BlackBerry 8310, BlackBerry BOLD, HTC Fuze™, LG CF360, LG CT810 (Incite), LG Xenon, Motorola Q9 Global, Motorola Z9, Motorola V9x, Nokia 6650, Pantech C610, Pantech C630, Pantech Matrix™ (C740), Pantech Matrix Pro™, Samsung BlackJack II (i617), Samsung Rugby (A837), Samsung a637, Samsung a657, Samsung Epix (i907), Samsung Propel (A767), Samsung Propel Pro (i627), Samsung A777, Samsung Eternity (a867), Samsung Impression (a877), Sony Ericsson w760a

How much does AT&T Navigator cost?
$9.99/month for unlimited access (including a free 30 day free trial) or $2.99 for a day pass. Data charges apply for route information (average route uses 35kb or about 30 routes = 1MB)
Note: Day Pass is not sold at point of sale and is a self provisioned option for customers who have already used a free trial or canceled a monthly subscription.

Where can I use AT&T Navigator?
AT&T Navigator works in the U.S. including Alaska and Hawaii, Puerto Rico, as well as Canada. Note that international data charges apply for usage in Canada.

How do I find AT&T Navigator on my device?
AT&T Navigator is preloaded on some integrated GPS devices such as the Motorola z9. Go to the Main Menu and click the GPS icon to launch AT&T Navigator and sign up for the free 30 day trial. On GPS capable Blackberry and Windows Mobile devices, click “Get Navigator” or “Get TeleNav” and you will be prompted to download the application.

How can the best possible GPS signal be attained?
In order to receive GPS signals, the device should have an unobstructed view of the sky. The GPS signals are not affected by weather and will go through clouds, plastic and glass (with the exception of metal-coated, wire-mesh, and bulletproof glass). But GPS signals do not work indoors; buildings, terrain, heavy foliage, and materials such as metal, concrete, and stone will block GPS signals. In an automobile, it is best to place your receiver on or near the dashboard so that it can receive GPS signals through the glass windshield. Acquire the initial GPS signal while stationary. Be patient, it may take 2-3 minutes to acquire the first GPS signal of the day. Keep the device turned on to optimize subsequent uses of GPS.

How do I enter an address for driving directions?
There are three ways you can enter addresses:

When you select "Drive To" for driving directions, you can either select Type It to type the address using the keypad of your phone, or
"Speak It" to use our Voice Address Entry system.
You can also enter addresses online using your computer by going to www.att.com/navigator and clicking the Enter Address Now link.
If I decide to call in my address instead of typing it, will I use my Anytime Minutes?
Yes, any outbound voice calls made while using AT&T Navigator (i.e. calling in an address) will count against a customer's allowance of voice minutes. However, the BlackBerry devices use integrated speech recognition (no outbound call is made) so speaking an address or search does not use voice minutes.

What happens if I miss a turn?
AT&T Navigator will detect where you are while you are driving along the route. If you miss a turn or make a turn where you shouldn't, AT&T Navigator will automatically re-route you.

How can I increase the volume for the spoken directions?
Use the volume keys on your device to increase the volume of the spoken directions

How can I hear the spoken directions again?
Press the green Talk key on your device to hear the spoken directions again.

How can I extend my device battery life?
AT&T Navigator can use a lot of battery power. Make sure you completely exit from AT&T Navigator when you're finished using it. Always select the End option to ensure you've properly ended the application and it has stopped running.

How can AT&T Navigator help me to avoid traffic?
As you drive on your route, AT&T Navigator periodically checks your route for traffic alerts. If there is a slowdown or other traffic alert, it will notify you and give you the option to avoid that portion of the route.

Can I make AT&T Navigator avoid a specific highway without relying on the Traffic portion?
To manually re-route yourself, press Options and select Traffic Summary. Select the road you want to avoid, and press AVOID. You will then be rerouted to avoid that particular road or highway.

How do I use the Map features?
When you select Maps and Traffic, you can select "Current Location" to get a map of where you are, or you can get maps of previous or new places by selecting "Recent Stops," "Favorites", or "Address."

Can my map get traffic as well?
Absolutely. When you are in the Map view, press Options and select "Show Traffic."

A map is nice, but how do I know the address of where I am?
When you are viewing a map, press Options, then select "Cursor Address." This will show the approximate address of your location.

How do I use the Search feature?
The Search allows you to find nearby businesses. You can search by category or by name.

What can I do once I've found a business with the Search feature?
Once you have found a business, you can get driving directions to that business, maps of the area, read reviews and ratings about it, or call the business itself. You can even save the business to your Favorites.

How do I view reviews on those Businesses?
The Search feature also has a rating system. When you search for a type of business, there is a category for "Most Popular," which will show ratings and reviews.

How do I rate Businesses in the Search?
To give a rating or write a review, go to Tools/Extras and select the business from your Recent Stops or Favorites List. Once there, select the option to "View Reviews." From there you can add your own rating.

How do I find nearby gas stations?
The Search function has two different categories to assist you. The "Gas Stations" category will help you find the closest gas station nearby.

How do I find the cheapest gas?
Searching for "Gas By Price" will allow you to find the best deal within a 15 mile radius.

How do I check for traffic?
When you are looking at a map of a location, press Options, and select "Show Traffic."

How do I share addresses with my friends?
When you select an address in your Favorites list, you will see an option to "Share Address." This will send the address to your friend's AT&T Navigator.

How do I view addresses others have shared with me?
Your Favorites list will have a default category of "Received Addresses" where you can view, move, or delete addresses that were sent to you by others.

How many addresses can I have on my phone?
You are not limited in the number of addresses on your phone. However, you can delete unwanted ones, or move them over to your Favorites instead, through the Recent Places menu.

How do I customize AT&T Navigator on my phone?
From the Tools/Extras menu, select Preferences. Here you can change your routing style, your map display, turn traffic alerts on and off, and make other changes to tailor the service to your needs.

GoCubsGo
Jun 23, 2009, 09:53 AM
LOL giving more money to AT&T?

Priceless.

KindredMAC
Jun 23, 2009, 09:55 AM
Just waiting to see what TomTom ends up doing.
Did some research on Garmin and it didn't look good for Garmin to join the iPhone ranks. Every article that Google brought up in regards to Garmin and the iPhone was stating that Garmin was focusing on products that would go head to head with the iPhone in your car.

I signed up on TomTom's website for the iPhone updates. If I like what they have to offer, price point and all, it could be the last nail in the the coffin for my Apple Gift Card getting used to pick up the new 3GS to replace my 2G iPhone!!!!!!

Stargaze
Jun 23, 2009, 09:58 AM
Is this why MMS got delayed to who knows when? because they were too busy coming up with this? :rolleyes:

first thing i did when i updated to 3.0 "TURN OFF MMS"

aerospace
Jun 23, 2009, 10:00 AM
So I can download this app and use it for $29 days for free to test it out?

The price is ok if tomtom charges $100 for thier app. Vacation twice a year, is $20. Most likely I wont have an iphone for 5 years to come out ahead buying a gps app which of course will be way outdated by that time anyway.

Stargaze
Jun 23, 2009, 10:00 AM
Just waiting to see what TomTom ends up doing.
Did some research on Garmin and it didn't look good for Garmin to join the iPhone ranks. Every article that Google brought up in regards to Garmin and the iPhone was stating that Garmin was focusing on products that would go head to head with the iPhone in your car.

I signed up on TomTom's website for the iPhone updates. If I like what they have to offer, price point and all, it could be the last nail in the the coffin for my Apple Gift Card getting used to pick up the new 3GS to replace my 2G iPhone!!!!!!

I have been signed up to receive email updates from Tom tom since they updated their website after the WWDC and there has not been a single annoucement about anything yet.. just the same ad's and information available from day 1...

bigmc6000
Jun 23, 2009, 10:05 AM
first thing i did when i updated to 3.0 "TURN OFF MMS"

Uhh, why? It's included in the text messaging plan and since you can't even get it right now what was the point in going out of your way to turn off a feature you can't even use?

I'm confused...

chris03
Jun 23, 2009, 10:06 AM
The size of the app on the app store is 2.3 MB...so basically the maps aren't stored on the phone. God, why does AT&T suck so much

gber
Jun 23, 2009, 10:09 AM
This is odd how AT&T circumvented paying Apple 30% by giving the App for free! I thought Apple said at their WWDC, that Free Apps could NOT have a subscription service.

chris03
Jun 23, 2009, 10:14 AM
This is odd how AT&T circumvented paying Apple 30% by giving the App for free! I thought Apple said at their WWDC, that Free Apps could NOT have a subscription service.

Well, I think they got around it b/c it's not subscription through the app store. So to Apple and the app store it's just a free app, but AT&T just adds $10 a month to the phone that you set this up on. Very sneaky...

Excellerator
Jun 23, 2009, 10:17 AM
I really haven't used it yet but it looks good. You can try for 30 days for free. I actually like the $9.99 model better because you can check them out. I wouldn't want to pay $100 and find out I didn't like it.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 10:28 AM
Your reply makes no sense at all. First you ridicule me for saying they are greedy, then you make your argument by showing their greed. How are they giving their product away exactly? You have to PAY TO USE IT!!!!! Not to mention, you have to pay MORE to use it than other apps that GIVE YOU their maps, and dont stream them. Ya you lost cell coverage.. there goes your navigation!

So lets get this straight. Anybody who doesn't give you their stuff for free is greedy? :D

Nobody is forcing you to buy the service. There are people who do and if they think it is worth $10 a month so be it. They don't have to worry about updating maps every 2 years or not having current POI and the service probably gets decent traffic updates. So you can't really compare the one time cost of buying a unit/software to a recurring service. Both have pros and cons. Just check how much Garmin charges if you want to update your maps on your old GPS. It is a ripoff. You pay almost as much as a brand new GPS.

fishkorp
Jun 23, 2009, 10:30 AM
I really don't get why people are bad-mouthing this so much :confused: Like I said in the other thread, this is perfect for people that only need a GPS navigation system for vacations. Both of my cars have built-in nav, so a Tom Tom app is a huge waste of money for me. When we go on vacation and rent a car I'll get the GPS. Most car rental companies charge $10-15 a day to use the GPS, with discounted weekly rates (about $60 or so). I'm on on vacation 2-4 weeks out of the year I'll only need an app like this for that. I'd much rather have an app on my iPhone than yet another device to carrier around, especially when I get the directions for a month for the price of 1 day. So just because it doesn't fit your particular needs, doesn't mean it's not for everyone.

As for the offline maps, if it's like all the other AT&T Navigator apps, it will load all the map data for your route when you enter it. The only time it will need to fetch new maps on the fly is if you go off course. So enter your destination before you leave, let it fetch all the maps, then you don't have to worry about your data connection.

And as for price, $120/year (if you paid every month) isn't going to cost you that much more than if you get Tom Tom. Sure Tom Tom will have a 1-time price of $100 or so, but you don't get updated maps for free, you'll have to buy new maps each year. At least where I live, even 3-month old maps are very wrong. Land is still being developed like crazy here with new communities and shopping areas going up all over the place. So if you need updated maps, the Tom Tom app is going to cost you another $60-90 a year for updated maps (based on pricing I've seen with other devices, pure guess at this point).

I welcome this model for turn-by-turn and hope other vendors do the same. I'd much rather pay only when I need it.

DavidLeblond
Jun 23, 2009, 10:30 AM
I agree I'd rather pay a one time price for an app than to pay for it monthly. Disagree that Tom Tom, Garmin, et al is a one time fee however. Map updates anyone? And don't think for a second that Tom Tom for the iPhone will magically provide you map updates for free either.

uhhitsjames
Jun 23, 2009, 10:30 AM
It looks pretty cool but I have no need for a GPS, and 10 a month is kind of dumb IMO.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 10:30 AM
Looks like a fairly decent app, too bad it has monthly fee pricing. I'm not a fan of that. I'll be waiting for Garmin's app (unless it turns out to suck and tomtom is way better).

Garmin isn't making an iPhone app since they have their own phone to concentrate on.

I have come to the conclusion that this A&T app really sucks.

There isn't much to it. You can't add POIs in the middle of the route without ending the current one and it's as simple as a GPS can get. I like my Garmin Nuvi 850, it obeys my every command! :)

This AT&T garbage is cancelled. That was fast.

Michael CM1
Jun 23, 2009, 10:35 AM
I spent $130 on my widescreen Garmin Nuvi GPS system about a month ago. Someone must explain to me the allure of paying a monthly fee for such an app/service, because it's not like you need monthly map updates.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 10:36 AM
has anyone bought this/given it a try? i start my delivery job today in a newer town i dont know as well, so this would be perfect.

I've tried it for the past five hours. It would be ok for your job I think since it's most likely just around your city. There really isn't much to it, enter an address and it will get you there. You can search for all the usual places like stores gas by prices and even wifi access points. This is perfect for vacations or someone who just needs short term GPS access.


This does not download maps but they are delivered to the phone over the air. I encountered a dead area not far from my house where the map just froze till I got in a better 3G area. Try getting maps in remote areas. :mad:
Many people complain about the Google maps freezing up, this is the same.


It's just lacking most of the things my Garmin GPS has. I cancelled this service after five hours.

ScottNWDW
Jun 23, 2009, 10:40 AM
I don't understand what all the gripes are about. You download the app for free and then pay $9.99 a month. With that you get turn by turn dorections and automatically updated maps.

Buy a GPS unit or the app that has a one time fee and your maps become outdated. Then you have to purchase new maps every quarter or so to stay current.

AT&T Free App, 9.99 a month = about $120 a year
GPS Unit $100-300 for initial device then about $75-100 a year for updated maps

In addition to that, this is an average price for GPS service on cell phones. I had a Blackjack 2 from AT&T before last July when I bought the iPhone 3G, the same GPS service back then was $9.99 a month. I was interested in it then but opted for a tom Tom GPS device. That device cost me $199 and then 6 months later Tom Tom said they updated the maps and the update would cost me $74.99. This year they came out with an annual subscription to update maps for $40 a year, but you have t have the most recent map to start the subscription, so they get you there too.

I don't get why everyone with an iPhone seems to think that every app or service needs to be free.

If you don''t like the app or the pricing don't use it. You have the FREEdom of choice, the choice to buy or not to buy.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
I don't understand what all the gripes are about. You download the app for free and then pay $9.99 a month. With that you get turn by turn dorections and automatically updated maps.

Buy a GPS unit or the app that has a one time fee and your maps become outdated. Then you have to purchase new maps every quarter or so to stay current.

AT&T Free App, 9.99 a month = about $120 a year
GPS Unit $100-300 for initial device then about $75-100 a year for updated maps

In addition to that, this is an average price for GPS service on cell phones. I had a Blackjack 2 from AT&T before last July when I bought the iPhone 3G, the same GPS service back then was $9.99 a month. I was interested in it then but opted for a tom Tom GPS device. That device cost me $199 and then 6 months later Tom Tom said they updated the maps and the update would cost me $74.99. This year they came out with an annual subscription to update maps for $40 a year, but you have t have the most recent map to start the subscription, so they get you there too.

I don't get why everyone with an iPhone seems to think that every app or service needs to be free.

If you don''t like the app or the pricing don't use it. You have the FREEdom of choice, the choice to buy or not to buy.

I stated all the negatives above. This app is only as good as the 3G service in your area. On edge, this app is worthless and will not work. You get a blank screen with the dot in the middle. That is the problem.

slpdLoad
Jun 23, 2009, 10:44 AM
I'll just stick with the built-in Google Maps app, thanks.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 10:47 AM
yeahh!!! $10 more per month. awesome. i can't wait to pay another $10 for MMS and another $60-$70 per month for tethering. In the end, I'd like to be paying AT&T around $500 a month for being such a freaking cool company.

Wouldn't it be nice if we didnt have to pay for anything in this world? :cool: Perhaps you should switch to Verizon. They give away everything for free!!

Unfortunately every company is there to make money. Every cellular carrier has these services (SMS, MMS, GPS) and they all charge for it. AT&T is no exception. Bandwidth is not free. SMS has a very small footprint. Only 160 bytes or whatever. MMS can really hog a lot of bandwidth especially when you are on an unlimited data plan.

Blue Fox
Jun 23, 2009, 10:51 AM
Wow, this has got to be the whiniest thread I've seen on this site so far.

AT&T is OFFERING this to you as an option for people who want it. It's not like they just added it to everyone's bill and said "Gotcha!". They're offering it as a service. Don't want it, DON'T GET IT!

I mean, COME ON....no one can ever make you people happy unless they give it to you for free, but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if you STILL find a way to b***h and complain about it.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 10:54 AM
Since I cancelled this service after only five hours, the website says I was approved for a refund. Excellent news. :D

nagromme
Jun 23, 2009, 10:57 AM
I suppose it's a convenient option--and good to see AT&T moving quickly on SOMETHING, but I too prefer the "one time" payment model, with paid data updates only when I decide I need them.

Besides, I need to see some choice and reviews. Navigon looks promising.

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 10:58 AM
Wow, this has got to be the whiniest thread I've seen on this site so far.

AT&T is OFFERING this to you as an option for people who want it. It's not like they just added it to everyone's bill and said "Gotcha!". They're offering it as a service. Don't want it, DON'T GET IT!

I mean, COME ON....no one can ever make you people happy unless they give it to you for free, but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if you STILL find a way to b***h and complain about it.

Its not whining, its called calling them out on their blunder.

Excellerator
Jun 23, 2009, 11:03 AM
I honestly like it. I just used it driving around a few places and it worked well. MUCH MUCH better than the Gokivo GPS app. That was terrible. I am still waiting for Navigon's US one as I love their GPS's.

azentropy
Jun 23, 2009, 11:04 AM
Nice that they are offering something. But I'm not interested in a monthly subscription model.

Now if they can offer a daily rate that then change to a monthly for that month if you use it so many days, I'd consider that. It isn't something I would use everyday, maybe a couple of times a month unless I'm traveling.

Same thing with tethering...

I'll wait to see what others offer.

fishkorp
Jun 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
Nice that they are offering something. But I'm not interested in a monthly subscription model.

Now if they can offer a daily rate that then change to a monthly for that month if you use it so many days, I'd consider that. It isn't something I would use everyday, maybe a couple of times a month unless I'm traveling.

Same thing with tethering...

I'll wait to see what others offer.

They offer daily. It's $2.99 a day. But it doesn't auto-change to monthly after 4 days unfortunately.

dsn112
Jun 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
Buy a $99 Garmin and don't waste your money or battery on this crap.

Stargaze
Jun 23, 2009, 11:09 AM
Uhh, why? It's included in the text messaging plan and since you can't even get it right now what was the point in going out of your way to turn off a feature you can't even use?

I'm confused...

Im with Rogers, Internet tethering and MMS work already and i could really Care less to receive stupid Photos' and movies via Text messages

macwh0re
Jun 23, 2009, 11:21 AM
Just downloaded.. seems to be working well!

mxpx5678
Jun 23, 2009, 11:22 AM
Just used it on my way to work. It rerouted me around traffic and worked very well. I was honestly impressed with how well this worked. The best part is you can go to att.com/directbill at any time and cancel and request a refund for the part of the service you didn't use. It is definitely worth 10 bucks for the months you need it.

samab
Jun 23, 2009, 11:27 AM
Its not whining, its called calling them out on their blunder.

Except that this business model has been doing very well for every cell phone carrier in the US.

Only the hardcore users would pay $100 for a nav app. They can make a lot more money selling $2.99 a day on long weekends and $9.99 a month on March breaks and summer vacations.

Max E Verde
Jun 23, 2009, 11:39 AM
I honestly like it. I just used it driving around a few places and it worked well. MUCH MUCH better than the Gokivo GPS app. That was terrible. I am still waiting for Navigon's US one as I love their GPS's.

That's good to know. Been using Gokivo for a couple days. I asked to take a detour off of a highway, it took me off the jug-handle and back on the same road! Hopefully it updates faster too. Just downloaded it. Have to call AT&T to take the purchasing hold off of my account after class so I can use it. I still plan on canceling it when TomTom becomes available.

ssteve
Jun 23, 2009, 11:41 AM
That's why AT&T's business model for this app is doomed.

I agree with you. I don't own an iPhone yet. If I did, I would not be getting this app. I really like the my Garmin product and the $0.00 monthly fee that came with it.

Despite the fact that I really want an iPhone, I cannot bring myself to become a customer of that particular carrier and this just re-affirms my resolve to wait......

Here's hoping for a different iPhone carrier choice in June of 2010.......Fingers crossed.....;)

supmango
Jun 23, 2009, 11:43 AM
So THIS is what they were doing instead of writing the tethering software!

The tethering software is built into the iPhone 3.0. They just don't want to support it yet because of bandwidth issues.

mattster16
Jun 23, 2009, 11:43 AM
Garmin isn't making an iPhone app since they have their own phone to concentrate on.

I have come to the conclusion that this A&T app really sucks.

There isn't much to it. You can't add POIs in the middle of the route without ending the current one and it's as simple as a GPS can get. I like my Garmin Nuvi 850, it obeys my every command! :)

This AT&T garbage is cancelled. That was fast.

Damn, you are right. I read this like a week ago: "German GPS navigation firm Navigon responded to TomTom's news with a press release announcing that it will be bringing its own MobileNavigator solution to the iPhone by the end of June." When I read it I saw German as "Garmin" and have thought ever since that Garmin is coming out with an app. haha

That's no good, Garmin uses NAVTEQ maps which are more accurate in North America, they also have a better route calculating engine. TomTom uses Tele Atlas maps, not quite as accurate. I'd rather have Garmin, but may consider Navigon or TomTom. I'm sure others will come out as well.

jaw04005
Jun 23, 2009, 11:44 AM
Sometimes I wonder if a subscription model for GPS would be better.

I paid $329 for my Garmin Nuuvi a few years ago. I update the maps every year, which cost around $80. So, $9.99 per month for GPS provided the maps and POI information is updated regularly doesn't sound too bad for me.

mattster16
Jun 23, 2009, 11:44 AM
The tethering software is built into the iPhone 3.0. They just don't want to support it yet because of bandwidth issues.

No, they just don't want to support it until they can come up with a pricing structure and the best way to make the most money off of it.

supmango
Jun 23, 2009, 11:47 AM
yeahh!!! $10 more per month. awesome. i can't wait to pay another $10 for MMS and another $60-$70 per month for tethering. In the end, I'd like to be paying AT&T around $500 a month for being such a freaking cool company.

AT&T has already stated MMS will be tied to texting. If you have texting, you will have MMS, when they "get around" to supporting it.

supmango
Jun 23, 2009, 11:50 AM
No, they just don't want to support it until they can come up with a pricing structure and the best way to make the most money off of it.

The pricing structure is really not that hard to figure out, so that couldn't be true. Perhaps they are waiting to build up their subscriber base first before they say "oh, by the way, it costs 50+ bucks a month if you want tethering." That perhaps sound more like AT&T to me.

cmwade77
Jun 23, 2009, 11:57 AM
I think I will still with xGPS on my jailbroken phone.

It seems pointless to pay for these pieces of software when the XGPs software is working extremely well and is completely free on top of it.

Now if I could just get the speaker volume high enough to hear properly (a problem no matter what software I am using, the speaker stinks).

johnqh
Jun 23, 2009, 12:12 PM
I mean, COME ON....no one can ever make you people happy unless they give it to you for free, but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if you STILL find a way to b***h and complain about it.

Even if it is free, people will still b*h and demand the app to be updated regularly, with new maps reflecting changes in every neighborhood in the whole nation, with live traffic reports.

This is America - people want everything for nothing.

IronCross
Jun 23, 2009, 12:25 PM
First everyone complains about no turn by turn vocal GPS...

Now it's offered and everyone is crying that it costs $10 per month. It costs $10 per month on ANY AT&T phone.

Personally, I'd rather pay $10 per month and get up-to-date maps, monitored traffic rerouting, etc. than $100-$300 for a unit and then $50-$100 for updating the maps on it.

I'd say this way is a cheaper OPTION (it's not being forced on you, you still have Google's GPS.) The sense of entitlement people have is ridiculous.

Who really complains about $10 per month... I spend that minimum on lunch everyday.

iPunish901
Jun 23, 2009, 12:29 PM
I think I will still with xGPS on my jailbroken phone.

It seems pointless to pay for these pieces of software when the XGPs software is working extremely well and is completely free on top of it.

Now if I could just get the speaker volume high enough to hear properly (a problem no matter what software I am using, the speaker stinks).

xGPS ftw! the voice sucks balls tho

Slash X
Jun 23, 2009, 12:38 PM
I use the "G-Map" GPS App on my iphone from the App store. It doesn't support "Spoken" turn by turn, but is IS (turn by turn with re-routing) a pretty decent App for $ 19.99 (U.S. West).

I like the fact that maps are installed on the iphone itself (no streaming) so it works without radio service anywhere I have GPS coverage. I personally don't like streaming services.

This was a one time fee for U.S. West maps without a monthly service fee



1. Low cost
2. decent accurate app
3. turn by turn (no voice)
4. POI's and direct input addresses
5. $ 40 covers the whole U.S. (East & West)

For a decent App like this, it works perfect for me

adb1146
Jun 23, 2009, 12:50 PM
Can you believe they pushed out this app with no contacts or iPod integration. So here is the deal. If you are using AT&T Navigator (Telenav) on the iphone and you have an address in your contacts. Tough. Unless you cut and paste you cannot access that information. So while you are pondering that thought ponder this. If you have say 1000's of dollars worth of music on your iPhone too bad you can't listen to it in the car while driving because there is no iPod integration. Even your lame friends at Gokivo figured out how to do that one. Unbelievable. Shame on you Telenav. Shame on you.

JonBean
Jun 23, 2009, 12:51 PM
Anyone who has looked closely at their AT&T bill will see a truckload of tax added to the monthly tab. This is where $10 is not $10, but more like $13. A small 3 1/2 screen on a Tom Tom or Garmin would cost about the same over the first year (street price or Costco) and that's it. And, if you buy it on the internet you'll save the sales tax. I love my iPhone and some folks say I sleep with it, but there's a limit to this affair. The larger screen is cheaper and easier to use. Screw AT&T.

Steve L:D

andrewsd
Jun 23, 2009, 12:51 PM
I love my navigon app that I use while in germay. That AT&T app looks like a rip off. Plus I sure hope it is better then there navigation apps on there other phones cause I messed with one and it was bad

b1wils1
Jun 23, 2009, 12:59 PM
Just check how much Garmin charges if you want to update your maps on your old GPS. It is a ripoff. You pay almost as much as a brand new GPS.

or you can use bittorrent and get the updates yourself...free.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:01 PM
Anyone who has looked closely at their AT&T bill will see a truckload of tax added to the monthly tab. This is where $10 is not $10, but more like $13. A small 3 1/2 screen on a Tom Tom or Garmin would cost about the same over the first year (street price or Costco) and that's it. And, if you buy it on the internet you'll save the sales tax. I love my iPhone and some folks say I sleep with it, but there's a limit to this affair. The larger screen is cheaper and easier to use. Screw AT&T.

Steve L:D

Dude first of all it is $10.73 to be exact. I just checked at http://www.att.com/directbill

Sure you can buy a small screen TomTom for $120-$150. But then after a year you pay another $80 to get updated maps and POI Database. And you don't get traffic based navigation which is a key for a lot of people. If you are never going to buy map updates and stick with what came with the device for 3 to 4 years and don't need traffic based navigation (which is very important to me) and don't mind carrying yet another device then sure it makes no sense to pay $10 a month for this service. But you can't really compare the 2. It is apples and oranges. Garmin charges a monthly service charge for traffic based navigation also even when you purchase their device.

If you get don't like AT&T get on Verizon. Not only is their service more expensive they don't give you this stuff for free either. Then you can complain about Verizon. In fact no carrier does. Everybody charges $10 a month for this. So I really don't get it when people bitch and moan about paying money for a service. Do you work for free?? If you don't like/want the service don't buy it. Don't slam it because it costs money. That is senseless.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:04 PM
or you can use bittorrent and get the updates yourself...free.

That is stealing. Sure you can steal anything for free (at least till you get caught). Looks like most people who are bitching here about paying $10 a month for a service belong to this category. These are people who are not used to paying for software, music, movies etc. Makes sense.

bbplayer5
Jun 23, 2009, 01:04 PM
Dude first of all it is $10.73 to be exact. I just checked at http://www.att.com/directbill

Sure you can buy a small screen TomTom for $120-$150. But then after a year you pay another $80 to get updated maps and POI Database. And you don't get traffic based navigation which is a key for a lot of people. If you are never going to buy map updates and stick with what came with the device for 3 to 4 years and don't need traffic based navigation (which is very important to me) and don't mind carrying yet another device then sure it makes no sense to pay $10 a month for this service. But you can't really compare the 2. It is apples and oranges. Garmin charges a monthly service charge for traffic based navigation also even when you purchase their device.

If you get don't like AT&T get on Verizon. Not only is their service more expensive they don't give you this stuff for free either. Then you can complain about Verizon. In fact no carrier does. Everybody charges $10 a month for this. So I really don't get it when people bitch and moan about paying money for a service. Do you work for free?? If you don't like/want the service don't buy it. Don't slam it because it costs money. That is senseless.


Every carrier might charge that much, but do any other characters have an app with the maps built in like the iphone does?

aristokrat
Jun 23, 2009, 01:07 PM
I don't understand how these companies expect to compete at these price points when the maps application offers good enough navigation with constantly updated maps for free? I've successfully navigated many places using Maps, and I don't feel like I NEED an alternative, unless it was cheap.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 01:08 PM
Can you believe they pushed out this app with no contacts or iPod integration. So here is the deal. If you are using AT&T Navigator (Telenav) on the iphone and you have an address in your contacts. Tough. Unless you cut and paste you cannot access that information. So while you are pondering that thought ponder this. If you have say 1000's of dollars worth of music on your iPhone too bad you can't listen to it in the car while driving because there is no iPod integration. Even your lame friends at Gokivo figured out how to do that one. Unbelievable. Shame on you Telenav. Shame on you.

You can play music while using this app.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:09 PM
Every carrier might charge that much, but do any other characters have an app with the maps built in like the iphone does?

I don't think AT&T controls whether google will provide turn by turn voice direction application for free or not. Google can enable this in their maps application tomorrow if they want to and then who would pay for any GPS software? I sure won't. I don't think it is that simple. There are probably huge licensing fees involved. I am sure it will cost google a lot of money to give this functionality away for free. Otherwise they probably would have done that by now. Google maps also uses the data connection for maps. The maps are not stored locally.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:12 PM
I don't understand how these companies expect to compete at these price points when the maps application offers good enough navigation with constantly updated maps for free? I've successfully navigated many places using Maps, and I don't feel like I NEED an alternative, unless it was cheap.

I have used it too but it is very hard to use it while driving. You have to constantly look at the screen and watch for that blue dot that shows where you are. Keep scrolling the map manually. Make sure the screen doesn't switch off. Too much hassle. It works if you want do a quick lookup of something. Far too dangerous to use while driving in my experience.

severe
Jun 23, 2009, 01:16 PM
Though the real-time traffic updates are a plus, there's no way I'd pay for this.

Considering how AT&T has drug many of us through the mud with their BS data plans, etc, etc, I'm not willing to give this company another dollar for any service. I'm looking forward to leaving them behind some day.

convergent
Jun 23, 2009, 01:20 PM
Its seems like many of the people posting in this thread are unaware that this application is nothing new, and its not unique to AT&T. Most of the cellphone companies offer the subscription navigation programs on nearly all their phones, and the majority are all using the same basic backend system.

The cost of the subscription service option is not really that much different than the historical cost of buying and updating a separate application. Most of the navigation programs on the other platforms like Windows Mobile have run about $100, and typically it costs you about that per year to keep the maps updated. So not that different from $10/month to have constantly updated maps.

I've not use this on an iPhone, but I've reviewed the same service on other platforms. There are pros and cons just like with anything else. For one thing, the footprint on the device is much smaller, so it helps a lot if you are cramped for space. It also does not use a tremendous amount of bandwidth to work, as some have suggested, because its not downloading massive maps... its downloading just small maplets that it ties together as you go. You can log into their online system and find and save parts of trips... planning before you get into the device. Because its doing the route planning on its remote server, that has some advantages as well. Likewise, its points of interest in theory is infinitely bigger and more up to date than anything downloaded. And, its simple for them to include things like "find the cheapest gas" types of things.

I found many times when I preferred this type of navigation program, and many times when I didn't. The biggest negative to me is not the cost, because I plan to buy an annual update to keep my other program current, but rather the fact that without a data connection it will not work. This to me is a limitation in some places you might travel, but not all.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:20 PM
Though the real-time traffic updates are a plus, there's no way I'd pay for this.

Considering how AT&T has drug many of us through the mud with their BS data plans, etc, etc, I'm not willing to give this company another dollar for any service. I'm looking forward to leaving them behind some day.

As much as I hate giving any large corporation my money, they are all the same at the end of the day. I was on Verizon for many many years. I have tried Sprint and T-Mobile for short periods of time (couldn't have gotten out any faster) and they all suck equally. Everybody wants your money at the end of the day. Most times we pay out of no option like the cable company and rarely we pay because we feel we are getting something worthwhile.:eek:

southernpaws
Jun 23, 2009, 01:21 PM
of all the companies I might consider paying an additional monthly fee to, ATT is not one of them.

Cell phone service is a necessary evil...but I'm not a masochist

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:22 PM
Its seems like many of the people posting in this thread are unaware that this application is nothing new, and its not unique to AT&T. Most of the cellphone companies offer the subscription navigation programs on nearly all their phones, and the majority are all using the same basic backend system.

The cost of the subscription service option is not really that much different than the historical cost of buying and updating a separate application. Most of the navigation programs on the other platforms like Windows Mobile have run about $100, and typically it costs you about that per year to keep the maps updated. So not that different from $10/month to have constantly updated maps.

I've not use this on an iPhone, but I've reviewed the same service on other platforms. There are pros and cons just like with anything else. For one thing, the footprint on the device is much smaller, so it helps a lot if you are cramped for space. It also does not use a tremendous amount of bandwidth to work, as some have suggested, because its not downloading massive maps... its downloading just small maplets that it ties together as you go. You can log into their online system and find and save parts of trips... planning before you get into the device. Because its doing the route planning on its remote server, that has some advantages as well. Likewise, its points of interest in theory is infinitely bigger and more up to date than anything downloaded. And, its simple for them to include things like "find the cheapest gas" types of things.

I found many times when I preferred this type of navigation program, and many times when I didn't. The biggest negative to me is not the cost, because I plan to buy an annual update to keep my other program current, but rather the fact that without a data connection it will not work. This to me is a limitation in some places you might travel, but not all.

Very well said!!

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 01:25 PM
of all the companies I might consider paying an additional monthly fee to, ATT is not one of them.

Cell phone service is a necessary evil...but I'm not a masochist

Trust me I feel the same about my cable company. You can't live without it (although a small minority may disagree) and if you want it you pay way more than you think it is worth the 4 or 5 channels you ever watch out of the gazillion they give you and charge you a fortune. It is all a big game about how to setup the tiered plans so people have to switch to the next level if they want to get that one channel they really want. Same thing with wireless service.

amusedchimp
Jun 23, 2009, 01:25 PM
This is too expensive and seems redundant to boot.

I love my Nuvi.
It lives in my car.
It works well
It's minimally distracive
Its paid for.

Iphone maps works great when I'm walking.

Blue Fox
Jun 23, 2009, 01:31 PM
Its not whining, its called calling them out on their blunder.

No, it is whining. They're offering a service for you to either take or NOT take. Your choice. Don't want it, don't get it. It's as simple as that.

I think it's a great idea personally. Since I live in a smaller city, I have no need for GPS. But when I take a trip, I would like one. It would be foolish to pay for a Garmin or TomTom that I only use a couple of weeks out of the year....AND have to pay to update each year......So for me, this is great. I pay $9.99 for the month, and get GPS for when I need it, and cancel it when I don't. Brilliant!

Just because it doesn't fit YOUR specifications, doesn't mean other people won't find it to be perfect for them.

severe
Jun 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
As much as I hate giving any large corporation my money, they are all the same at the end of the day. I was on Verizon for many many years. I have tried Sprint and T-Mobile for short periods of time (couldn't have gotten out any faster) and they all suck equally. Everybody wants your money at the end of the day. Most times we pay out of no option like the cable company and rarely we pay because we feel we are getting something worthwhile.:eek:


A 3G service that wasn't ready for prime time at launch
No tiered data plans (many of us use about 300MB per mo. on average)
Crippling/Throttling their "unlimited" data plan
No Tethering
No MMS
Etc

JonB3Z
Jun 23, 2009, 01:44 PM
This actually fills a gap, I think. Until there is a good self-contained (not reliant on the network) app available at a suitable price, a $10/month app that you can cancel at any time will serve. And while it isn't as full-featured as a stand-alone GPS, it seems to work just fine.

The italics above are because AFAIK, nobody yet knows what the TomTom app will run, nor whether it will require the TomTom cradle, or what that will cost. I'm not counting those particular chickens until they are hatched.

Blue Fox
Jun 23, 2009, 01:48 PM
A 3G service that wasn't ready for prime time at launch
No tiered data plans (many of us use about 300MB per mo. on average)
Crippling/Throttling their "unlimited" data plan
No Tethering
No MMS
Etc


- My 3G worked fine at launch.
- Data Plan is a data plan. Most other companies don't offer tiered data plans either for their smart phones.
- I would be surprised if ANYONE has even come close to the limit under normal use (NOT hacked and tethered illegally)
- Tethering is on it's way.
- MMS is on by the end of summer.
- What Etc?

severe
Jun 23, 2009, 02:02 PM
- My 3G worked fine at launch.
- Data Plan is a data plan. Most other companies don't offer tiered data plans either for their smart phones.
- I would be surprised if ANYONE has even come close to the limit under normal use (NOT hacked and tethered illegally)
- Tethering is on it's way.
- MMS is on by the end of summer.
- What Etc?

So no tiered plan option and limiting (per app) the bandwidth that can be used is fine with you. Great. But not me. When I'm told my $$ is good for an unlimited plan, I expect unlimited service.

MMS and tethering have been missing for 2 years! :D

"What Etc?"? ...read on, Newb. ;)

johnntd
Jun 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
FYI,
I have garmin nuvi 780 which I paid for about $250 recently. The lifetime update for its map costs me $70. Lifetime traffic report costs $140 or so.


Dude first of all it is $10.73 to be exact. I just checked at http://www.att.com/directbill

Sure you can buy a small screen TomTom for $120-$150. But then after a year you pay another $80 to get updated maps and POI Database. And you don't get traffic based navigation which is a key for a lot of people. If you are never going to buy map updates and stick with what came with the device for 3 to 4 years and don't need traffic based navigation (which is very important to me) and don't mind carrying yet another device then sure it makes no sense to pay $10 a month for this service. But you can't really compare the 2. It is apples and oranges. Garmin charges a monthly service charge for traffic based navigation also even when you purchase their device.

If you get don't like AT&T get on Verizon. Not only is their service more expensive they don't give you this stuff for free either. Then you can complain about Verizon. In fact no carrier does. Everybody charges $10 a month for this. So I really don't get it when people bitch and moan about paying money for a service. Do you work for free?? If you don't like/want the service don't buy it. Don't slam it because it costs money. That is senseless.

cliffrouse11bas
Jun 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
This is free with my monthly subscription with my Pre with Sprint.

optophobia
Jun 23, 2009, 02:04 PM
TomTom. If you are reading this thread, take note.

I personally will buy your app UNSEEN for $99 IF :

1 - the maps are loaded ONTO the iPhone, therefore NO data needed.
2 - there is no subscription service.

I don't mind paying $10 for updates once in a while either. :D

notjustjay
Jun 23, 2009, 02:05 PM
Everyone who brings up the cost of a Garmin or TomTom, also remember that in addition to map updates, you'd also be paying a small monthly fee for the equivalent traffic updates on your standalone unit.

Of course, on those units, you have the option to not subscribe to those services, just as you have the option to not purchase map updates. The map on my GPS is very old and occasionally that gets me into trouble. :o

Excellerator
Jun 23, 2009, 02:08 PM
Dude first of all it is $10.73 to be exact. I just checked at http://www.att.com/directbill

I am not bitching about the $10 a month, but you are correct they are charging already. I thought the website said the first 30 days were free?????

http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/navigator/

chimerical
Jun 23, 2009, 02:12 PM
Are we automatically subscribed if we download the app?

Hawkeye411
Jun 23, 2009, 02:13 PM
The great thing about the iPhone was the lack of these monthly fees for software. However, when the were describing the "features" that would be available in 3.0, which included the ability to charge for extra lvl's in games and to charge monthly fees I thought .... well that was fun while it lasted. Now we are going to get gouged!!

Monthly fees are complete BS in my opinion. I will NEVER pay for, or use an app that requires a monthly fee or "offers" upgrades or extra lvl's for a fee!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Sense Field
Jun 23, 2009, 02:15 PM
Why don't we all just bend over and give AT&T seconds? I have to assume most people who have iPhones are paying around the same amount as me ($110/month). I don't think I really want AT&T to get more of my monthly pie.

kobefan234
Jun 23, 2009, 02:20 PM
all att cares about is $

NateOMatic
Jun 23, 2009, 02:21 PM
That's no good, Garmin uses NAVTEQ maps which are more accurate in North America, they also have a better route calculating engine. TomTom uses Tele Atlas maps, not quite as accurate. I'd rather have Garmin, but may consider Navigon or TomTom. I'm sure others will come out as well.

G-map uses Navteq map data; that's actually why I got it in the first place. I was a little bummed about Google having switched to TeleAtlas data so I searched "navteq" and came up with G-map, which is the turn-by-turn app I now use.

On another note, I would love to see an app that uses Zenrin (Japan) map data offline. There is an app called JapanMap that streams Zenrin data, which is of course no use to me when I go there at current data roaming rates... Unfortunately the various offline city-map apps out there all use Open Street Map, which is not very complete in Japan yet.

JonB3Z
Jun 23, 2009, 02:22 PM
Monthly fees are complete BS in my opinion. I will NEVER pay for, or use an app that requires a monthly fee or "offers" upgrades or extra lvl's for a fee!!

Then for those apps that rely on receiving an on-line service you'll find the cost of delivering that service built into the initial price and into the pricing of upgrades that you'll just have to have.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Pay up front or pay later, you will pay.

Oh, and you already did pay for such an app. It's called an iPhone. Becomes a PDA if you stop paying the monthly fee to the carrier.

JonB3Z
Jun 23, 2009, 02:25 PM
all att cares about is $

$ seems to be what a lot of people posting on this forum care about, too.

AT&T is a corporation chartered for the specific purpose of making money. Their profit runs up to about 10% on sales, which is not an unreasonable profit to make in a volatile, risk-laden industry.

iphones4evry1
Jun 23, 2009, 02:28 PM
Ten Bucks a Month ???? Whoa!!! :eek:

I think this one is D.O.A. (dead on arrival)

For $2.99 per month, I would sign up.

For $79.99, I can go to Best Buy and buy a full GPS machine that mounts into my car and will work forever with no required monthly subscription.

A two-year iPhone contract is 24 months. $79.99/24 = $3.33. In fact, I think AT&T just convinced me to finally go out and buy a GPS for my car. :)

(note to AT&T: you need to lower the fee if you want the masses to sign up)

samab
Jun 23, 2009, 02:35 PM
Ten Bucks a Month ???? Whoa!!! :eek:

I think this one is D.O.A. (dead on arrival)

(note to AT&T: you need to lower the fee if you want the masses to sign up)


It's what every carrier charges --- $3 a day and $10 a month.

iphones4evry1
Jun 23, 2009, 02:40 PM
It's what every carrier charges --- $3 a day and $10 a month.

And that is exactly why 99% of the population is smart enough to do the elementary school math and figure out they are better off going to Best Buy and buying a full GPS for $79.99, which is loaded with features and has had years of refinement and improvements.

Daniel0418
Jun 23, 2009, 02:48 PM
I was being very sarcastic. Every company wants to make money, so why is ATT greedy for making its customers pay for a navigation app? If it strengthens their bottom line, they will do it. Verizon and Sprint offer the same thing... ~$10 / month navigation applications on their phones.

Friends?

Sprint turn by turn is free with the palm pre and sprints calling/data plan is 20 a month cheaper than AT&T. So this isn't standard, better options elsewhere.

pasteater
Jun 23, 2009, 02:54 PM
i wanted to at least try this out...so when i saw 30 days free i got excited. i called at&t just to make sure this was true and accurate. not only is it true, but he credited my account $10 if i want to try it for an additional 30 days. and if i don't...i just saved $10 on next month's bill.

rwilliams
Jun 23, 2009, 02:57 PM
Wow, $10 a month for GPS on top of your existing plan?? I have Sprint, and GPS Navigation comes free with the data plan, and it is a great app.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 03:02 PM
all att cares about is $

Quiz - Name one corporation you know that doesn't care about $? :D

Even GM which has been losing billions for decades cares about $. The only difference is that even though it is our $ we don't get to decide how we spend it.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 03:04 PM
Sprint turn by turn is free with the palm pre and sprints calling/data plan is 20 a month cheaper than AT&T. So this isn't standard, better options elsewhere.

Right and you are on Sprint LOL!!! If you switch to "Junk Mobile" their data plan and voice plan are free. You just can't make any calls :D

itsjustmeee
Jun 23, 2009, 03:08 PM
For the time being, it looks like G-Map might be the best alternative. No way am I going to hand over another $10 to AT&T, especially when it looks like we are going to have a lot of options with TBT in the next few weeks.

And I got this response from G-Map's support yesterday concerning the latest update.....


Dear. customer,
Hello.
New G-map V.1.3.1. is going to release in next week or beginning of July.
It is in submission now and voice prompts, TBT, and other new features will be available in v.1.3.1.
You can upgrade your app to v.1.3.1 when submission is over in next week.
Thank you and please e-mail us if you have any more questions.
Best regards,

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 03:09 PM
And that is exactly why 99% of the population is smart enough to do the elementary school math and figure out they are better off going to Best Buy and buying a full GPS for $79.99, which is loaded with features and has had years of refinement and improvements.

And where does the $80 a year map and POI update cost and a monthly subscription for traffic update figure in your elementary school math??:confused:

Don't get me wrong. I have a Garmin unit that I love but I also have another one that I bought about 3 years ago paying a fortune ($450). And the maps have been outdated as I found out on some of my travels and Garmin wanted over a $100 for updated maps. I am glad I didnt do the upgrade because the unit died completely a few months ago and is a brick right now. Would have been double loss had I paid for the upgrade. Both models have their pros and cons. It is just what works best for you.

samab
Jun 23, 2009, 03:10 PM
And that is exactly why 99% of the population is smart enough to do the elementary school math and figure out they are better off going to Best Buy and buying a full GPS for $79.99, which is loaded with features and has had years of refinement and improvements.

99% of the population uses the nav app for a couple of months in the summer (2x$10) and a few long weekends (3x$3) --- basically about $30 a year.

And GPS hardware makers are basically dying left and right --- so it is better off for them to find another business model.

sbrhwkp3
Jun 23, 2009, 03:15 PM
Wow, this has got to be the whiniest thread I've seen on this site so far.

AT&T is OFFERING this to you as an option for people who want it. It's not like they just added it to everyone's bill and said "Gotcha!". They're offering it as a service. Don't want it, DON'T GET IT!

I mean, COME ON....no one can ever make you people happy unless they give it to you for free, but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if you STILL find a way to b***h and complain about it.

That's it, boy. Bend over, take it from AT&T! :rolleyes:

Flowbee
Jun 23, 2009, 03:16 PM
FYI,
I have garmin nuvi 780 which I paid for about $250 recently. The lifetime update for its map costs me $70. Lifetime traffic report costs $140 or so.

So in other words, you paid $460 for your nuvi with "lifetime" support, or the equivalent of nearly 4 years of iPhone turn-by-turn with AT&T.

JonB3Z
Jun 23, 2009, 03:21 PM
And where does the $80 a year map and POI update cost and a monthly subscription for traffic update figure in your elementary school math??

Precisely, because if you don't include those, you aren't comparing equivalent services. Some may be satisfied with maps and POI lists that don't get updated and with the lack of real-time traffic. If so, and it you don't mind having yet another device on the dash -- that you have to secure from thieves when you park -- the standalone GPS is the more economical choice. But if you want real-time data, you have to pay for it one way or the other.

I'm sure TomTom's app will include a subscription option, too, just as the GPS boxes do now.

Apples, oranges... pick one and compare.

thecypher
Jun 23, 2009, 03:49 PM
That's it, boy. Bend over, take it from AT&T! :rolleyes:

Dude! we (you) bend over and take it everyday from Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, Roadrunner, Optimum Online, Con Edison, Dish Network, DirectTV, Sprint, T-Mobile, Qwest, GM, Wall Street, Exxon, Uncle Sam everyday. How is this different??

D-Man18360
Jun 23, 2009, 04:13 PM
And that is exactly why 99% of the population is smart enough to do the elementary school math and figure out they are better off going to Best Buy and buying a full GPS for $79.99, which is loaded with features and has had years of refinement and improvements.

Say you buy your GPS unit for $79.99, and it works great. But you forget to bring it with you on your trip to City A which you've never been to and you'll be driving all over the place. Isn't it nice that there's an option that for $9.99 you can use your iPhone for navigation purposes (or chose the day option if that's all you need it for)?

dvdhsu
Jun 23, 2009, 04:19 PM
Is this why MMS got delayed to who knows when? because they were too busy coming up with this? :rolleyes:

Probably, sir.
BTW, I love your avatar. :D

mattster16
Jun 23, 2009, 04:25 PM
For the time being, it looks like G-Map might be the best alternative.

I really think G-Map looks like a good app except for that it is divided into east and west, I travel all over so I would need to buy both apps! That sucks. I guess I'll be waiting for something better to come alone.

Excellerator
Jun 23, 2009, 04:26 PM
Probably, sir.
BTW, I love your avatar. :D

To all of you saying get a $100 Garmin or TomTom, have you looked at those models? They don't even tell you the street name until you pay around $200 or more. You want traffic assist, well that will be another $50. You want map updates, thats another $80 a year. So you really think they are that good of a deal?

I would say, go for a Navigon GPS unit, they have all the above features plus Lane Assist (another $100 for Garmin, TomTom). So I see both of those companies as a complete rip off.

Randman
Jun 23, 2009, 04:33 PM
I could see a use for this for casual users. Pay the one-month then cancel then pay for day use when needed, such as on a business trip when you don't want to carry around a dedicated GPS unit (or pay more for one in a rental).

gzillaration
Jun 23, 2009, 04:36 PM
i wanted to at least try this out...so when i saw 30 days free i got excited. i called at&t just to make sure this was true and accurate. not only is it true, but he credited my account $10 if i want to try it for an additional 30 days. and if i don't...i just saved $10 on next month's bill.


wtf i just called 611 they said no wont get a free trial for the iphone. how did u get that??

marco114
Jun 23, 2009, 04:43 PM
I know a lot of you think that this is expensive. But when you consider a good GPS costs $300.. this would represent at least 30 months of service. It has some nice features:

- ability to find things along a route, like a restaurant
- traffic updates included (normally extra on most GPS units)
- always up-to-date
- announces street names
- no 'extra' devices, which is good.
- if something better comes out, I am not out $300.. just what i've paid so far
- has computer based trip planning software, nice feature
- route type is cool feature: fastest, traffic optimized, shortest, prefer streets, prefer highway, pedestrian (nice for big cities)
- small footprint, doesn't use a bunch of storage space

downside:
- maps are not local to device. if internet goes down, i think you may have problems
- getting a call during turns may complicate things?
- not sure yet if I can play ipod and gps at the same time
- maps weren't as up to date as mapquest for me

overall, i will give this app a 4/5 stars. if they improve the maps to be more current (like my 3 year old street is not there) and if they'd reduce the cost slightly, maybe $7.99 a month would be better, they would have a winner. When Tom Tom comes out, I will evaluate it.

AWeber3030
Jun 23, 2009, 04:44 PM
Maybe they were busy making this instead of enabling MMS and tethering for the iPhone......

iphones4evry1
Jun 23, 2009, 04:50 PM
- getting a call during turns may complicate things?



Whether someone is pro or con for this App, that is actually a very good question. What happens if you get a phone call when the App is telling you "merge right from Interstate X to Interstate Y." ?

My guess is that the call would interrupt the GPS, because if it did not and you were on a 2 hour drive, your "iPhone" would not be a "phone." And, after all, this is a phone, isn't it? If you miss your turn, the GPS can recalculate and get you back on your route.

(personally, I would only use a GPS for trips in a rental car in a completely unfamiliar city. The current Maps application on the iPhone works great. I just study where I'm going for two minutes before I leave, and then my brain gets me there). I see a GPS as useful in a complex, unfamiliar, major city though.

gber
Jun 23, 2009, 04:55 PM
wtf i just called 611 they said no wont get a free trial for the iphone. how did u get that??

It's on their web site. Go to this link.http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/navigator/

iphones4evry1
Jun 23, 2009, 05:09 PM
And that is exactly why 99% of the population is smart enough to do the elementary school math and figure out they are better off going to Best Buy and buying a full GPS for $79.99, which is loaded with features and has had years of refinement and improvements.

To those of you that replied to my above comment, thank you. I didn't realize that with the GPS devices you buy at Best Buy, you still need a subscription service. As far as map updates, I still find a lot of roads on the Maps application that comes with the iPhone that have not been added. So, even Google Maps isn't perfect. And, often times, I click on "satellite view" on my iPhone (or computer) and entire neighborhoods are still construction zones with no streets. So, I just call and ask the person how to get there. For the person who said their GPS became a brick after a few years, that is very interesting feedback. Thank you. I would expect the product to last many more years, but I guess not all of them do. Updates are less important, heck my 2001 paper Thomas Guide still has most of the roads I need. Sure, there are some it doesn't have, but it has most of them.
Anyways, thank you for the feedback.

SpaceKitty
Jun 23, 2009, 05:20 PM
To those of you that replied to my above comment, thank you. I didn't realize that with the GPS devices you buy at Best Buy, you still need a subscription service. As far as map updates, I still find a lot of roads on the Maps application that comes with the iPhone that have not been added. So, even Google Maps isn't perfect. And, often times, I click on "satellite view" on my iPhone (or computer) and entire neighborhoods are still construction zones with no streets. So, I just call and ask the person how to get there. For the person who said their GPS became a brick after a few years, that is very interesting feedback. Thank you. I would expect the product to last many more years, but I guess not all of them do. Updates are less important, heck my 2001 paper Thomas Guide still has most of the roads I need. Sure, there are some it doesn't have, but it has most of them.
Anyways, thank you for the feedback.

You don't need a subscription service. Garmin offers several map updates a year now and they offer one single map update for about $69 I think it was. They also have a subscription service that is for the life of the GPS I think, I'm not positive on that.

We had a Garmin 880 die on us after 6 months. It was a known problem with them but since I never registered the device online, the warranty was worthless. We bought a 850 afterwards and registered it right away.
Like anything electronic, anything can fail.

vivithemage
Jun 23, 2009, 05:35 PM
Monthly subscriptions blow.

I would much rather pay a 1 time $90-$100 fee. Thats what I did for my TomTom, why should this be different...:mad:

For the traffic subscription, even Tom Tom requires a monthly service for their traffic alerts.

steveclay
Jun 23, 2009, 06:02 PM
I downloaded and used this a little bit today. It's tough not to compare this to a dedicated GPS nav device, and this setup does suffer from the comparison.

Some other initial thoughts:

- The look and feel was nice, and the maps were updated sufficiently close to real-time. I was in a metropolitan area (Boston) surrounded by 3G, so that wasn't a problem. The maps did freeze when I was in a tunnel, but that would happen with my Garmin, too.
- The iPod music DID play underneath the voice commands (which, BTW, are extremely low fidelity, almost to the point of being unintelligible at times), stopping when the commands came on and then immediately restarting. Calls, however, do take over the phone (I got one while driving, and now I can't remember whether it automatically went back to the app afterwards -- I *think* it did)
- However, when you leave the app and come back in, you have to re-pick your route.
- The search isn't great (I'm very used to the Garmin search), but it's useable.
- The traffic updates seemed to work pretty well, although I didn't verify where they said the traffic was backed up. :D
- You can search for POIs along the route, but you cannot insert one into your route. You need to choose the interim POI as a destination, and then re-choose your original destination again.

All in all, it was pretty usable. It's nice to be able to use music along with it, and when it comes to the issue of taking/making calls while using it as a GPS, I dunno if we're expecting too much of the iPhone to be able to do this seamlessly with ANY nav app.

I'm going to use it some more, as it looks like I'll have a while to decide whether to replace it with another app.

-steve

JonB3Z
Jun 23, 2009, 06:24 PM
Good report, Steve. I do think there is a fundamental question any potential user will have to decide, which is whether you want to dedicate your iPhone to GPS use while driving, forgoing other apps. There is an argument to be made for a dedicated GPS just to keep the iPhone free for other uses, regardless of what nav app you choose -- even Google maps.

I3roknI3ottle
Jun 23, 2009, 06:48 PM
To all of you saying get a $100 Garmin or TomTom, have you looked at those models? They don't even tell you the street name until you pay around $200 or more. You want traffic assist, well that will be another $50. You want map updates, thats another $80 a year. So you really think they are that good of a deal?

I would say, go for a Navigon GPS unit, they have all the above features plus Lane Assist (another $100 for Garmin, TomTom). So I see both of those companies as a complete rip off.

newegg has the tom tom 3.5" unit with TTS for 49.99 after a 20 dollar rebate. So what if it doesn't have traffic assist...

Flowbee
Jun 23, 2009, 07:28 PM
newegg has the tom tom 3.5" unit with TTS for 49.99 after a 20 dollar rebate. So what if it doesn't have traffic assist...
...or spoken street names, or current maps...

Link to customer feedback (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16858194072)

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 07:32 PM
...or spoken street names, or current maps...

Link to customer feedback (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16858194072)

spoken street names is now standerd, even on entry level GPS. My $120 garmin does that.

Birdman784
Jun 23, 2009, 07:35 PM
A lot of companies will pay the phone bill but not spring for nice gadgets like ipods and gps units. Not that I would consider doing this, but an extra $10 fee on a phone bill can be submitted with your business expenses. A $100 Tom Tom would not get reimbursed.

Tunnelrunner
Jun 23, 2009, 08:09 PM
First everyone complains about no turn by turn vocal GPS...

Now it's offered and everyone is crying that it costs $10 per month. It costs $10 per month on ANY AT&T phone.

Personally, I'd rather pay $10 per month and get up-to-date maps, monitored traffic rerouting, etc. than $100-$300 for a unit and then $50-$100 for updating the maps on it.

I'd say this way is a cheaper OPTION (it's not being forced on you, you still have Google's GPS.) The sense of entitlement people have is ridiculous.

Who really complains about $10 per month... I spend that minimum on lunch everyday.

Can't say I disagree with a single thing you said here.

Cyclone Chris
Jun 23, 2009, 08:11 PM
This is what we need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXzdUb_fug

Excellerator
Jun 23, 2009, 08:26 PM
spoken street names is now standerd, even on entry level GPS. My $120 garmin does that.

MOST GPS's this is true. Not Garmin and TomTom. I know I sell GPS units.

n0lram
Jun 23, 2009, 08:36 PM
I like the option to have the app. It's a nice choice, figured $10 bucks is worth a try... it's OK. Here's what I think of it so far:

+ traffic update
+ cheap gas finder <-- best feature that I like so far
+ auto update
+ few megs

- can't play music
- no integration with contacts in the phone

I won't pay for it any longer if it doesn't get contact AND music integration. Driving is silence is death for me... and typing etc. putting in address is too much of a chore. If it gets the updates I need, I'll be more than happy to pay the 10.

Tunnelrunner
Jun 23, 2009, 08:37 PM
MOST GPS's this is true. Not Garmin and TomTom. I know I sell GPS units.

As I said in other threads (just to keep track for those interested), the only iphone apps so far that are confirmed to have text to speech are: G-Map East/West, Gokivo, and AT&T Navigator by Telenav...oh, and I believe others have mentioned that Navigon also has it.

TTS is a must-have feature for a GPS, IMHO for safety reasons: being able to keep your eyes on the road (for the most part), etc.

pooryou
Jun 23, 2009, 08:44 PM
There is a video here that shows feaures that are supposed to be coming for G-Map, anyone know of any more recent updates?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwfnMZmrs4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftapcritic%2Ecom%2F2009%2F04%2F24%2Fg%2Dmap%2Dus%2Dvoice%2Dguidance%2Dpreview%2F&feature=player_embedded

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 08:52 PM
There is a video here that shows feaures that are supposed to be coming for G-Map, anyone know of any more recent updates?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwfnMZmrs4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftapcritic%2Ecom%2F2009%2F04%2F24%2Fg%2Dmap%2Dus%2Dvoice%2Dguidance%2Dpreview%2F&feature=player_embedded

The problem with g-map is not the interface but the database. It won't fond POI's that you know for a fact are there.

knewsom
Jun 23, 2009, 09:21 PM
If you think that's a problem that only exists with g-map... then you haven't tried other solutions. most stand-alone GPS units can't find jack and are useless for that, which is why a brilliant person invented this thing called google.

...luckily GOD invented something called a MEMORY, which you'll have to use when you go from google back to g-map. Sadly, pasting the address won't work, since G-map uses a different format. :( THAT I would love to see changed.

...though I am still a VERY VERY happy customer of G-map, and would recommend it to anyone who doesn't live on the border of the eastern and western USA.

BryanLyle
Jun 23, 2009, 09:29 PM
I think we're going to find out that the iphone screen is too reflective to be used as a GPS. If I hold my iphone up to my windshield, the reflection is really bad. Seems like it would be very hard to see.

Can't wait to find out.

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 09:59 PM
If you think that's a problem that only exists with g-map... then you haven't tried other solutions. most stand-alone GPS units can't find jack and are useless for that, which is why a brilliant person invented this thing called google.

...luckily GOD invented something called a MEMORY, which you'll have to use when you go from google back to g-map. Sadly, pasting the address won't work, since G-map uses a different format. :( THAT I would love to see changed.

...though I am still a VERY VERY happy customer of G-map, and would recommend it to anyone who doesn't live on the border of the eastern and western USA.

False. My stand alone basic entry garmin model from 2008 finds most of my POIs. G-map will not even show a post office within 50 miles of me, and there are actually 3 within 10 miles. The same thing with walmarts, police station. If it can't find the most common points of interest, it's useless.

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 10:01 PM
I think we're going to find out that the iphone screen is too reflective to be used as a GPS. If I hold my iphone up to my windshield, the reflection is really bad. Seems like it would be very hard to see.

Can't wait to find out.

You just have to angle it right. Why are you waiting to find out, you can find out now.

Thunder82
Jun 23, 2009, 10:09 PM
Not interested in a "subscription" model myself. I'll wait for TomTom with a bottle of Lube™ at the ready.

Same here. These monthly fees are getting ridiculous.

pooryou
Jun 23, 2009, 10:17 PM
The problem with g-map is not the interface but the database. It won't fond POI's that you know for a fact are there.

This can happen with any of them though.

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 10:28 PM
This can happen with any of them though.

I am yet to use another gps that won't locate the post office

sonictonic
Jun 23, 2009, 10:37 PM
I think this is pretty darn cool, but before committing to another $10 per month on my bill I want to hear some reviews on it first. Good in-depth ones...

eastercat
Jun 23, 2009, 10:39 PM
I don't like the trend towards monthly subscriptions. It feels like another way for the corporations to bleed you dry.
Google maps works for what I need. While I don't consult it while I'm driving, it is useful for when I get lost.

williamgallas10
Jun 23, 2009, 10:53 PM
I have been playing around with navigon europe and it looks good. I will get that when the US one comes out. No subscription. I can't believe that the TomTom one is not ready. Actually I can since they couldn't even show us a demo at WWDC. Guys get ready to wait a while for Tomton.

Bryan Bowler
Jun 23, 2009, 11:15 PM
I'm not sure that i understand what all of the sniveling is about in regards toa monthly subscription. I welcome different business models such as these because it provides a choice, which in turn makes the competition step up with something better. At the rate technology is moving, there is nothing wrong with using this for a year or two, and then moving on to the next best thing that comes along. Could be much cheaper in the long run.

Bryan

Advil
Jun 24, 2009, 12:19 AM
does anyone know how to change the volume of the voices? when i use my volume buttons it just adjusts my ringer volume.

mozmac
Jun 24, 2009, 12:21 AM
I think that's Santa Ana in the picture.

marco114
Jun 24, 2009, 12:42 AM
I bought the app today. I already made some assumptions in a prior post.. Here's what I've found so far:

Likes:
• GPS works really well. Gave me plenty of notice to turn.
• Nice that it says the name of the streets. (Usually reserved for higher-end GPS units)
• You can go online and enter your favorites and also plan a trip and then download the locations to your phone.
• Will give multiple ways of getting to a location (e.g. using streets vs. highways, faster or shorter)
• Traffic updates (although my town has no traffic) :)
• Allows ratings of places to see and go
• Shows restaurants, banks, airports, etc. Restaurants were a little limited for my taste.
• Directions are extremely clear on the screen and has a lot of detail, for example I could see if a highway was partially separated or how an exit ramp looked, etc. (no lane advice for my city).

Dislikes:
• The voice is a little quiet and muffled, even when playing over my stereo.
• When playing the iPod, the 2 apps seem to conflict with each other and one will stop working, usually the iPod. Need to experiment more.
• Getting a call pretty much kills your directions. Since I am on the phone all the time, this is bad. After hanging up, it has to reload the entire route.
• After searching for something and then viewing the map, you can't go back to the search results, you have to do a new search. Like if you wanted to verify which location you were looking at.
• Maps online are more up-to-date than the GPS on the iPhone. I don't understand why. My newer street, for example, shows on their planning app but not on the iPhone.

Overall, I will probably keep it until something better comes out. They need to fix being able to take a call and not interrupt the directions. Otherwise, I would have to pull over if I was truly in an unfamiliar area.

ryanw
Jun 24, 2009, 01:34 AM
I agree. $10/month for turn by turn GPS is standard. Sarcasm doesn't come through well through forums.

If you think it's a bad app or don't want to use it, don't! Nothing is forcing you to buy it. It's the beauty of capitalism, the government doesn't force companies or citizens to do anything. Capitalism weeds out the winners and the losers naturally. Just look at the car companies. ;)

... well, unless of course the government took over the car industry, then it'll be interesting to see where capitalism ends and government control begins..

iluvgr8tdeals
Jun 24, 2009, 05:10 AM
BTW, who does not have a GPS unit nowadays? If you check on most highways, all small to medium sized cars have them attached to their windshields. Anybody who can currently afford an iPhone has most probably taken advantage of the reasonable prices of stand-alone units. As for the bigger-sized cars, most have in-dash navigation. If you are a rental customer, most carry their GPS systems, and if you are a high-end rental customer, the cars come with in-dash navigation or an external stand-alone unit as part of the package!

For international travellers, using the navigation app might be expensive, especially if it entails using a roaming charge. I am in the US and I use the Tom-Tom 920 while travelling in Europe and Canada. You can get a refurbished unit at less than $200 at Amazon, and if it means lugging one extra piece of equipment, then let it be. I do not know if you can use the free google maps app without any data connection, but I don't think so; so, a stand-alone unit system makes sense if you are not in your network!

If the app is not going to run in the background (being forced to reload maps after the phone call as per early adopters) then it might be tricky when using the iPhone while navigating in an unfamiliar city (especially like my home city, Philadelphia with all its one way roads!)

Another advantage of a stand-alone GPS unit is that, you can 'lend' it to a close family member or friend while you are not travelling and they are! I give mine to my brother all the time when he goes to the UK! I would not give him my iPhone!

For navigation apps that are being introduced now (unlike 3 years ago when they were prevalent in the Treos, I had a 650, and it was somehow cheaper to buy the monthly subscription, since the prices of the stand-alone units was higher then) they are going to compete with the following;

a) Stand-alone GPS units. Most people I know don't upgrade their units, or do so sporadically, and do not count the 'high' subscription/upgrade fees as part of the costs of operating the GPS unit. Once they buy it (for between $100 to $200,) that's it!

b) The 'free' google maps app on the iPhone. Yes, it has no spoken street names, and many other amenities that are available on a stand-alone GPS unit or a 'real' navigation app, but most iPhone users I know have already 'learned' to follow the blue dot and get to their destination. It might be dangerous and laborious to some, but it becomes like juggling two (not three) fruits after some time!

c) The feeling amongst iPhone users that they are already paying too much for the iPhone services, and the misconception that other cell-phone companies don't charge for this navigation service (they always have). Yes, AT&T charges other smartphone users for navigation services, but remember, iPhone users are the most spoiled users out there ( I am one of them, so don't throw any stones) They demand loyalty and service from BOTH AT&T and Apple, bickering to both companies when a problem arises. I remember when I had a Treo after AT&T merged with Cingular, I could not fathom complaining to Palm for the mishaps of their device for some reason. In any case, there was no real Palm store (not in my area, maybe in the Bay Area, who knows!) to walk into for a tutorial with a 'palm' genius) or to exchange one's 650 if it crashed repeatedly! Only a trip to the Cingular/AT&T store could save you! With an iPhone, you could rush to the AT&T store, and if they are unflinching, dash to the Apple store, which I presume is not too far away! With a bare-bones iPhone bill going to around $100 after taxes, iPhone users feel that they are not only entitled to freebies, but also entitled to modify their contracts (like a loan modification mortgage program LOL!!!) to run away from their two year contracts to get the latest 3GS!

To compete with all these factors, the key factor being the low cost of stand-alone GPS units, and the fact that many people have bought these units during the Black Friday deals in the US (or scrambled to get them when Circuit City was closing down!) at $100 or less, they may have to adjust their prices to make iPhone users adopt navigation as part of their interface enmass.

I do not have a big problem with AT&T and/or Apple/iPhone. I think the iPhone in general blows all phones out of the water. However, this, and other requests by iPhone users just show how much leverage you lose if you introduce a product/application/usage too late into the market.

- MMS is a feature that has been part of the most basic cell-phones for ages. Look at the situation in Iran. Basic phones are being used to broadcast pictures of the unrest worldwide by people who live in a 'third world country'!

- Video. This has always been a feature of most phones. Same Iran example. Basic phones are broadcasting video of the unrest all over the world, while iPhone 2g and 3g users with $600 phones cannot even take video!

- GPS. Everybody kept on telling Apple about the need to have GPS in their iPhone. All Treos and Blackberrys had these features ages ago, and I remember owners buying memory cards with the latest maps to insert into their Treos. At that time, it made economic sense to purchase the maps, as stand-alone GPS units were costing $300 to $600. Apple is reacting when units can cost $50 after rebates! There is just too much competition and too many options, and only hard-core iPhone users shall pay for the AT&T and TomTom navigation on the iPhone.

- Cut, Copy and Paste. It is now here with us, but hey, didn't we all complain 2-3 years ago for a software update?

-Multitasking. Yes, we know it drains battery life, but give us this option with the disclaimer in red. A Good example is the navigation app shutting down when a phone call is coming in, forcing the app to reload maps when the phone call is through! Imagine if you are taking a long 1 hour phone call! What next? They said that multitasking was impossible/unnecessary, but I saw videos of the Palm Pre! (another company that goofed big-time, riding on the success of the treos, forgetting to listen to their palm/treo-forum customers! Have you seen how little traffic treo forums get nowadays??!! Just check them out!)

- Camera with flash, front facing camera for ichat, with a 5.0 MP or better, video light, TV viewing capability, etc. These should have been out with the 3GS!!!

-Wireless keyboard. This would bridge the gap between those who think that the iPhone should have a physical keyboard (they want this keyboard because they type for long periods of time, or type lengthy documents) and those who don't. Having this type of keyboard (I had one for my treo) means that many more business people would use the iPhone for all its worth, instead of branding the iPhone as an elitist phone more suited for the 'fun' user. With prices of $99 and $199, it is no longer elitist to own an iPhone!

I could list many other examples, eg tethering, etc. Please, AT&T and Apple, please listen to your users, and you shall be amazed at just how much leverage you can have if you implement what the majority feel they need on their iPhones!

Let us have the tomtom app, together with the windshield mount, for a one-time fee of $100 max, which can be paid in monthly/quarterly installments or tacked onto your bill (with maybe an optional $20 'annual' upgrade fee that ensures that your maps are automatically upgraded every quarter) Unless you do this, then only a handful of iPhone customers shall see the need to purchase these apps!

Who agrees with me?

lharvest
Jun 24, 2009, 06:57 AM
It's on their web site. Go to this link.http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/navigator/

I called AT&T directly about this and spent a half hour on the phone as they checked around to try and find anything they had concerning Navigator in the iPhone. Finally, I was told the above mentioned website was for their other GPS enabled phones and NOT the iPhone. I was told being a 'much more sophisticated' piece of equipment, the iPhone was exempt from the 30 day free trial. When pushed to identify the differences in the Navigator applications between the iPhone and the other units, they were at a loss to enumerate them. However; they remained adamant there was no free 30 day trial.

Bottom Line - You will get charged for the service and don't expect a refund after 30 days.

steveclay
Jun 24, 2009, 07:14 AM
You just have to angle it right. Why are you waiting to find out, you can find out now.Well, except for the fact that in the Northeast US, it hasn't been sunny since the 3GS came out. :(

DarrenC
Jun 24, 2009, 07:22 AM
I refuse to pay a monthly fee. C'mon TomTom! One-time fee! One-time fee! One-time fee!

twoodcc
Jun 24, 2009, 07:40 AM
not bad, though i'd rather just pay a 1-time fee

kdarling
Jun 24, 2009, 07:46 AM
Such an app wouldn't use a lot of data. Basic maps are included with the inital download.

The most common data usage would be realtively small realtime changes, like:


Realtime traffic updates
Gas price finder

Larger data usage would be relatively rare:


POI updates
Map updates


I believe that the same company (TeleNav) creates the navigator for all the main carriers.

Monthly fees make sense in that it pays for the realtime info and updates.

Back when the App Store was updated to allow subscriptions, it was obvious what they would mostly be used for. More than anything, that predicted the coming of TBT apps.

The main downside to using an iPhone as a GPS, are the app not being able to automatically continue in the background during a call, and the popup notifications that a user will have to reach over and dismiss.

trauma62
Jun 24, 2009, 07:51 AM
If you are like me, picky, and you checked your built in DVD based navigation in your car, you will realize that there is a yearly update for new roads etc. That new DVD , which comes usually from NAVTEQ Costs $200. Also updates for portable devices as Garmin and Magellan also come on DVD or SD cards costs between $100-150, so I am not surprize about the monthly charge , as long as they keep the datat updated every months.

My DVD update for my car cost me $199 this year, of course you can keep using your old data , till you hit a old closed rd.:apple:

imac abuser
Jun 24, 2009, 07:58 AM
There goes AT&T trying to raise our phone bills again. Come on!!!! I agree a one time fee, or pay per use would be better. I have a great Garmin Nuvi 765T that is awesome, but once in a blue moon i need gps and dont have it with me.

how about .99 per use, or a one time fee

gber
Jun 24, 2009, 09:10 AM
I called AT&T directly about this and spent a half hour on the phone as they checked around to try and find anything they had concerning Navigator in the iPhone. Finally, I was told the above mentioned website was for their other GPS enabled phones and NOT the iPhone. I was told being a 'much more sophisticated' piece of equipment, the iPhone was exempt from the 30 day free trial. When pushed to identify the differences in the Navigator applications between the iPhone and the other units, they were at a loss to enumerate them. However; they remained adamant there was no free 30 day trial.

Bottom Line - You will get charged for the service and don't expect a refund after 30 days.

The iPhone IS listed for the 30 day free service. AT&T doesn't have their act together!! See the following:
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-sales/promotion/att-navigator.jsp

JonB3Z
Jun 24, 2009, 09:18 AM
xBTW, who does not have a GPS unit nowadays? If you check on most highways, all small to medium sized cars have them attached to their windshields.

Lots of people don't, believe me. I just bought my wife her first GPS a couple of weeks ago. Maybe where you are most cars have a GPS; not around here.


remember, iPhone users are the most spoiled users out there ( I am one of them, so don't throw any stones)

You're judging that by the Internet echo chamber. There are millions of iPhone customers. How many have complained? And I'm sure if you read the Palm/WinMobile/RIM forums you'll see just as much frothing and fulminating.

Nobody likes to pay more than they are paying.

There is no question that there are compelling reasons for many people to prefer the standalone GPS over an iPhone-based one, and also reasons to prefer an iPhone app that is not network-reliant to one like the AT&T app that is. But there are also circumstances and users who will find the AT&T app a good choice. (I understand that you don't find it a good choice, and that's fine.)

1) Those who want real-time traffic updates and realize that they'll have to pay monthly for those no matter what kind of system they get may well reason that using a device they already have is more sensible than buying a new one, and that since the real-time updates require the network there is no compelling reason not to use an app that does so as well.

2) Those who are in and out of the car frequently may find it annoying to have to manage two thief-attracting dash-mounted devices. For them, the stand-alone GPS unit may be more trouble than it is worth.

3) The iPhone also can be used as a handheld GPS. Granted, other apps like the built-in map app are probably about as good for pedestrian use, but using one app for navigation simplifies things. I'm also looking forward to using it on my bicycle, which is not something I would use a typical TBT car unit for.

4) With an iPhone app, TBT directions will pause the iPod while they are spoken. With a separate unit, the iPod will continue to play while you strain to hear the GPS.

Look, there are better cameras than the iPhone camera. There are cheaper phones that make phone calls just as well as an iPhone. There are handheld gaming devices that are much better than the iPhone. You can buy an iPod for much less than an iPhone, and without a monthly fee. The reason we have iPhones is the integration of all of those functions. Integrating turn-by-turn nav is just one more element. Some will prefer non-real-time updates and a one-time fee. Some will prefer the ultimate in integration, with real-time nav data streamed to their phone, and will be willing to pay monthly for it. There is more than one model that works. If AT&T's model doesn't work for you, there are others that may. That doesn't mean that AT&T's model is bad, or wrong, or stupid. It just means that your needs don't fit that model.

BTW, one possibility that hasn't been discussed, AFAIK, but which is intriguing, is connecting a stand-alone GPS to the iPhone through the 30-pin connector, now that the 3.0 OS allows for that. It could lead to better integration of the stand-alone GPS and iPhone, getting the best from both. I'll be interested to see if any stand-alone maker moves in that direction.

joro
Jun 24, 2009, 09:35 AM
While I myself would also prefer a one time fee, AT&T is offering customers the ability to pay nothing for the app while paying monthly. It’s a different model then a Tom, Tom where you pay once and you’re done. Keep in mind though even with a Tom, Tom you’re still paying $70+ a year for map updates so in that sense $9.99 isn’t really that far off.

coasterswim
Jun 24, 2009, 10:34 AM
No one buys map updates every year!

mephiska
Jun 24, 2009, 10:53 AM
I'd much prefer a pay per use model where I rent it for 24 hours.

I had this with the Garmin app on my Helio phone, it was $3.99 to rent it for a 24 hour period, or $9.99/mo. Unfortunately it required data signal to work but otherwise it was pretty great.

I'm hoping AT&T goes with a short term rental model. I wouldn't need one of these all the time, just on those few road trips.

kiljoy616
Jun 24, 2009, 12:53 PM
I pay if it keeps me informed about traffic, that alone is worth the money living in a big city.

But must admit dam this will get expensive really fast unless you drive a lot or travel to other states that way you know where you are all the time, now does it do side view.

orrelse44
Jun 24, 2009, 01:06 PM
Wow, this has got to be the whiniest thread I've seen on this site so far.

AT&T is OFFERING this to you as an option for people who want it. It's not like they just added it to everyone's bill and said "Gotcha!". They're offering it as a service. Don't want it, DON'T GET IT!

I mean, COME ON....no one can ever make you people happy unless they give it to you for free, but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if you STILL find a way to b***h and complain about it.

GAWD, whatever.

The sprint GPS app on the Instinct is free, and no monthly charge. BTW, it was pretty spot on awesome too.

cliffrouse11bas
Jun 24, 2009, 01:21 PM
Just wanted to make one more comment on this issue. AT&T and Apple are losing customers everyday for this very reason. If and when AT&T lose their exclusive Apple contract. I can guarantee you will see their subscription prices go down. They are taking advantage of us Apple fanatics (Price Gouging). I admit I was one and got ate up for 2 years. This service is free with me and I just went with the new Pre from Sprint. My plan is $129.99 for 2 lines, which includes unlimited data, unlimited text, nights that start at 7, and 1500 minutes. This also includes Sprint TV, which is pretty useless, but does give you something to watch on the toilet, and TeleNav. Free navagation software. I also got a 15% off discount on top of all this. With Att this would have costed me $89.99 + 30(1st Line) + 30(2nd Line) + 30 (Unlimited Text) + 16(Nights that start at 7) + 9.99(Navigation) so $205.98. We are talking about with no discounts a savings of $75.99 a month. That is why I switched and on top of that I have 3G now in my city and the surround 3 around me, which AT&T had Edge in all these cities. Apple needs to hurry up and open this up to more carriers , so all Apple fans can enjoy the iPhone. AT&T Sucks!!!!!

gber
Jun 24, 2009, 01:44 PM
I think this application is Dead on Arrival, based on the current price and missing features. Out of 215 reviews on iTunes the rating is 3 stars, just average. I understand all the arguments about this being the standard cost for mobile devices, nevertheless, we are captive customers to AT&T already. Given what we pay for services, I think a better price point is 3.95 a month or a one-time fee of $69. New competition from TomTom, Navigon and others to follow, will determine the best pricing point. Of course, just my opinion based on the discussion so far.

samab
Jun 24, 2009, 02:38 PM
Just wanted to make one more comment on this issue. AT&T and Apple are losing customers everyday for this very reason. If and when AT&T lose their exclusive Apple contract. I can guarantee you will see their subscription prices go down. They are taking advantage of us Apple fanatics (Price Gouging). I admit I was one and got ate up for 2 years. This service is free with me and I just went with the new Pre from Sprint.

Sprint gives it to you for free because they are losing subscribers every quarter. AT&T and Verizon will continue to charge money for this service because they continue to gain customers.

samab
Jun 24, 2009, 02:45 PM
I think this application is Dead on Arrival, based on the current price and missing features. Out of 215 reviews on iTunes the rating is 3 stars, just average. I understand all the arguments about this being the standard cost for mobile devices, nevertheless, we are captive customers to AT&T already. Given what we pay for services, I think a better price point is 3.95 a month or a one-time fee of $69. New competition from TomTom, Navigon and others to follow, will determine the best pricing point. Of course, just my opinion based on the discussion so far.

You just have to look at the Navigon nav app in Europe --- approx $95 US introductory price --- without live traffic information.

Regular price after the launch will be more expensive. And they haven't told you the cost of the map updates and the cost of the live traffic subscription fee.

cliffrouse11bas
Jun 24, 2009, 06:54 PM
Sprint gives it to you for free because they are losing subscribers every quarter. AT&T and Verizon will continue to charge money for this service because they continue to gain customers.

This may be the case but I can guarantee 2 things. At&t lost 2 lines and Sprint gained 2. So far I have been very happy with the service. Like I said earlier the main reason for At&t customer gains is because of the iPhones. Once Apple smarts up and opens the iPhone up to more carriers At&t will have to rethink their pricing strategies. They are gouging their iPhone customers whether you will admit it or not. Compare plans from any other carrier. I will one day own an iPhone again if it is not with At&t.

clevin
Jun 24, 2009, 07:16 PM
ATT neve really offers good price at all. They probably subside iPhone pretty heavily also.

So this is, of course, a cash cow for them from rich people again. There is really no surprise.

Im glad Im off ATT a year ago, now with Pre on sprint, I m saving $480 over two years. Yeah its tiny for rich people, but its a good netbook or maybe a large screen kindle for me. :)

NateOMatic
Jun 24, 2009, 07:47 PM
The problem with g-map is not the interface but the database. It won't fond POI's that you know for a fact are there.

Why would you need a GPS to find those? :D

Flowbee
Jun 24, 2009, 07:59 PM
Given what we pay for services, I think a better price point is 3.95 a month or a one-time fee of $69.

I can think of a better price point than that: How about 1.95 a month or a one-time flat fee of $49. Wait, I just thought of a better price: $39... no, $29. No wait, $19.95. (This is fun!)

Sure, everyone would like a better price, but AT&T will charge what they think will maximize their profits. Just the same as every other company in the world.

Flowbee
Jun 24, 2009, 08:02 PM
ATT neve really offers good price at all. They probably subside iPhone pretty heavily also.

So this is, of course, a cash cow for them from rich people again. There is really no surprise.

It's the same monthly price AT&T charges for this app on all of their phones... not just the iPhone.

williamgallas10
Jun 24, 2009, 08:39 PM
Why would you need a GPS to find those? :D

I don't understand your question.

clevin
Jun 24, 2009, 08:41 PM
It's the same monthly price AT&T charges for this app on all of their phones... not just the iPhone.

Good Point, I guess ATT is just pure greedy. Or it just has the ability to do so.

samab
Jun 24, 2009, 11:12 PM
This may be the case but I can guarantee 2 things. At&t lost 2 lines and Sprint gained 2. So far I have been very happy with the service. Like I said earlier the main reason for At&t customer gains is because of the iPhones. Once Apple smarts up and opens the iPhone up to more carriers At&t will have to rethink their pricing strategies. They are gouging their iPhone customers whether you will admit it or not. Compare plans from any other carrier. I will one day own an iPhone again if it is not with At&t.

Contrary to popular belief, AT&T's "success" has NOTHING to do with the iphone. AT&T's net adds have been largely attributable to Tracfone's success.

Verizon is going to keep charging their premium prices.

If Sprint is successful in stopping their subscriber losses, the first thing they will do is raise their prices.

dlemmon
Jun 25, 2009, 12:12 AM
I agree. $10/month for turn by turn GPS is standard. Sarcasm doesn't come through well through forums.

If you think it's a bad app or don't want to use it, don't! Nothing is forcing you to buy it. It's the beauty of capitalism, the government doesn't force companies or citizens to do anything. Capitalism weeds out the winners and the losers naturally. Just look at the car companies. ;)

exactly which is why a government run car company is bad. they can just subsidise people to buy there car making it even more disadvantageous to buy something else and essentially being forced into something you might otherwise not choose. unless you have lots of money

dlemmon
Jun 25, 2009, 12:14 AM
Is this why MMS got delayed to who knows when? because they were too busy coming up with this? :rolleyes:

I"m just pissed cause I"m paying for unlimited messages, and I can only use text.

Chwisch87
Jun 25, 2009, 12:52 AM
Subscription ... you have got to be kidding me ...

iPhoneNYC
Jun 25, 2009, 06:34 AM
ATT is the villain. The ugly corporation that just can't handle or understand the iPhone or the App store. The weak link in the iPhone chain. Needless to say, I won't be signing up for a monthly subscription but I do very much look forward to the day when one can buy an iPhone unrelated to ATT.

diamond.g
Jun 25, 2009, 07:06 AM
Subscription ... you have got to be kidding me ...

ATT is the villain. The ugly corporation that just can't handle or understand the iPhone or the App store. The weak link in the iPhone chain. Needless to say, I won't be signing up for a monthly subscription but I do very much look forward to the day when one can buy an iPhone unrelated to ATT.

Eh, if you had a phone through AT&T and were already subscribed to Navigator (which is the only way to get navigation with non-smartphones) it makes sense to continue using it. I guess. I wouldn't subscribe, but then again I think it could be a better deal than having to pay 150 bucks for a SatNav unit and then 80 bucks a year for maps. Or more than that if you have SatNav unit built into your car (I have seen new maps for as much as 400 dollars).

joro
Jun 25, 2009, 10:54 AM
I"m just pissed cause I"m paying for unlimited messages, and I can only use text.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Flowbee
Jun 25, 2009, 10:58 AM
For people having problems with low volume, you need to exit the app then open the ipod app and adjust the volume slider (you don't need to be playing music). When you return to Navigator, the volume will be louder.

For me, this is the biggest glitch in the software... no separate volume control in Navigator. This means that you can't adjust your iPod music to play at a lower volume than the turn-by-turn voice, or vice-versa. (If you use the iphone's physical volume button while using Navigator, it just adjusts ringtone volume.)

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with this software. Worked just fine around town. The directions on screen were easy to see at a glance, and the voice, while not the clearest ever, was easy enough to understand. Had no problems locating local points of interest.

Still, not sure how long I'll keep the service. I'm one of those people who doesn't currently own a GPS... because 99% of my driving is in an area I'm familiar with. If I'm not exactly sure where my destination is, a quick look at google maps before I leave is usually enough to get me there.

iluvgr8tdeals
Jun 26, 2009, 05:29 AM
Lots of people don't, believe me. I just bought my wife her first GPS a couple of weeks ago. Maybe where you are most cars have a GPS; not around here.



You're judging that by the Internet echo chamber. There are millions of iPhone customers. How many have complained? And I'm sure if you read the Palm/WinMobile/RIM forums you'll see just as much frothing and fulminating.

Nobody likes to pay more than they are paying.

There is no question that there are compelling reasons for many people to prefer the standalone GPS over an iPhone-based one, and also reasons to prefer an iPhone app that is not network-reliant to one like the AT&T app that is. But there are also circumstances and users who will find the AT&T app a good choice. (I understand that you don't find it a good choice, and that's fine.)

1) Those who want real-time traffic updates and realize that they'll have to pay monthly for those no matter what kind of system they get may well reason that using a device they already have is more sensible than buying a new one, and that since the real-time updates require the network there is no compelling reason not to use an app that does so as well.

2) Those who are in and out of the car frequently may find it annoying to have to manage two thief-attracting dash-mounted devices. For them, the stand-alone GPS unit may be more trouble than it is worth.

3) The iPhone also can be used as a handheld GPS. Granted, other apps like the built-in map app are probably about as good for pedestrian use, but using one app for navigation simplifies things. I'm also looking forward to using it on my bicycle, which is not something I would use a typical TBT car unit for.

4) With an iPhone app, TBT directions will pause the iPod while they are spoken. With a separate unit, the iPod will continue to play while you strain to hear the GPS.

Look, there are better cameras than the iPhone camera. There are cheaper phones that make phone calls just as well as an iPhone. There are handheld gaming devices that are much better than the iPhone. You can buy an iPod for much less than an iPhone, and without a monthly fee. The reason we have iPhones is the integration of all of those functions. Integrating turn-by-turn nav is just one more element. Some will prefer non-real-time updates and a one-time fee. Some will prefer the ultimate in integration, with real-time nav data streamed to their phone, and will be willing to pay monthly for it. There is more than one model that works. If AT&T's model doesn't work for you, there are others that may. That doesn't mean that AT&T's model is bad, or wrong, or stupid. It just means that your needs don't fit that model.

BTW, one possibility that hasn't been discussed, AFAIK, but which is intriguing, is connecting a stand-alone GPS to the iPhone through the 30-pin connector, now that the 3.0 OS allows for that. It could lead to better integration of the stand-alone GPS and iPhone, getting the best from both. I'll be interested to see if any stand-alone maker moves in that direction.

Thanks for the intelligent debate. I agree with some issues you have raised, and disagree with others, but here is my core argument;

- Most iPhone users are either middle class or high class, with a few exceptions obviously. Many of these iPhone users, due to the fact that the iPhone did not have a navigation app (or it was too expensive) decided to get stand alone GPS units. You admit to getting one for your wife too. I guarantee that, if At&T and Apple had a reasonably priced navigation app which, together with the mount, would cost about the same as a stand-alone unit, (assuming your wife has an iPhone) you might have chosen to get the iPhone app instead of getting the GPS, or mulled over it as an option. Since the option was not there, or was too expensive for you to consider, you opted for the GPS unit.

- For those iPhone users already owning stand alone GPS units, (like you and me) then the introduction of a navigation app by AT&T or TomTom or Garmin shall become a question of economics and convenience. Should I get the app and pay for it, while I have a perfectly good stand alone unit that I can use? Is it more convenient to carry one unit and pay for the app, or forego the app and carry two units?

By the way, for one to use the TomTom app, you shall be required to use a windshield mount, meaning that, you shall always have to take away the mount each time you park at a public (or even private) place, as the mount is what makes the thieves know you have a GPS system, thus enticing them to break in and see if you have left it at the cup holder console or the glove compartment!!! Therefore, the inconvenience of taking out the mount applies to all, iPhone users and stand alone users alike!

"Those who are in and out of the car frequently may find it annoying to have to manage two thief-attracting dash-mounted devices. For them, the stand-alone GPS unit may be more trouble than it is worth."
If you are using the stand alone unit as your GPS mounted to your winshield, why would you want to mount the iPhone mount on your windshield? You are not going to be using two devices for directions, are you?

"The iPhone also can be used as a handheld GPS. Granted, other apps like the built-in map app are probably about as good for pedestrian use, but using one app for navigation simplifies things. I'm also looking forward to using it on my bicycle, which is not something I would use a typical TBT car unit for." You shall need to buy a sort of mount (like those bought for stand alone units to be used on bicycles and even motorcylces) for your iPhone, since the iPhone unit is even 'more sensitive' than a stand alone unit. The TBT car unit has options for bicycle, walking, etc, and In fact, you are better off using the more 'rugged' TBT car unit for cycling than you are your 'delicate' iPhone!

I know some people shall opt for the convenience. However, many, faced by the prospect of paying for services that are already provided by a device they already own, might opt not to take up the offer UNLESS IT IS COMPETITIVE ENOUGH.

- For those without stand alone GPS units, the choice is easier; they shall opt for the app. Many shall also walk (or log onto their internet stores) into Best Buy and Sears and WalMart and all other stores selling GPS units, and shall be faced by the same decision faced by you and me, current GPS unit owners; do I buy a stand-alone unit or should I buy or pay for the app (and the resulting subscription prices)?

My argument is (and I may be wrong) that, since the options are many and not as expensive as they were 2-3 years ago, many current and prospective iPhone users who might have been drawn to the convenience of having one device might opt to purchase the stand alone unit, since the prices are just too reasonable.

2 or 3 years ago, many iPhone users would have gladly paid $100 to $200 per annum (either as a single sum or a total of monthly subscriptions) since the prices of stand alone units were higher then, but not too many are willing to do that now, since the competition has made them aware of options available.
For AT&T and companies providing these navigation apps to make them appealing to many iPhone users, their prices shall have to be so competitive, such that, an ordinary user shall forego buying a stand alone unit. If they don't make it competitive, then they shall only have a few core customers. I predict that, if they make it too expensive, then just a few people shall buy the app/subscriptions, and they shall be forced to drop the prices till their iPhone navigation products can compete with other products out there!


You have mentioned something about the 'internet echo chamber'! Yes, majority of iPhone users don't complain, or suffer silently, but those who do are the ones that force AT&T and Apple into action. (I agree with you, most iPhone/Ipod touch users don't even follow the latest developments - only 6 million out of a possible 40 million had downloaded the 3.0 update by last week, about 15%) For example, just look at the complaints by iPhone 3g users wanting special prices upon the release of the iPhone 3GS. Granted, only a small population was bickering about the 2 year contract 'thing' that was preventing them from upgrading, but the 'few' who did made such a large noise, they forced Apple and AT&T executives to meet in the middle of the night to brainstorm on how to appease their customers, and came out with the confusing tiers of upgrading and eligibility. Not everybody complained. It was just a select few; they however got things changed for everybody, including those who did not complain!

Again, on the internet echo chamber, these echos are the ones that have 'forced' Apple to introduce features that many users might not even have had (or heard) a clue about! Look at 'copy, cut and paste', a feature that many iPhone users might never even use. However, a small population of users decried its absence, especially since many 'inferior' phones had this feature. Look at MMS. How many people shall use that feature once it is there? Maybe, when people discover that it is there, they shall begin using it, thanks to the few but loud who complained about its absence. Tethering? You need another computer to tether! As for me and many iPhone users, we already have some form of internet connection at home, school or work. The only reason you need to tether is to use your iPhone to 'stream internet' to your laptop (or other computer) to get an internet connection where there is none. This shall only be done by a very small segment of the population, and in very few instances, as if you have regular internet connection, either from an ethernet or wireless (WIFI) connection, you really don't need to tether. Does that stop people from shouting hoarse about the lack of tethering? No! In fact, the 'internet echo chamber' was so loud about the $55 fee for tethering, AT&T had to give an official statement disclaiming the rumor! So much for the internet echo chamber!

All this 'chatter' we are 'making' here is what, to some extent, makes these big companies add these features that we blog about. If it were left to the general populace, these companies would never bat an eyelid! MMS? Cut Copy and Paste? Who needs it? Tethering? Do they even know what it is? My old man tells me of one Ralph Nader, who 'chattered' until seat belts were made mandatory for motor cars. The majority did not mind, neither did they care about seat belts. Ralph Nader and a few knuckleheads caused the government and reluctant automakers to 'increase production costs' for this feature. Thank God for Nader (Did not vote for him!!!)

JonB3Z
Jun 26, 2009, 05:52 AM
iluvgr8tdeals, we certainly agree that the economics of the issue will play a large role in determining people's decision. I'm just trying to point out that not everyone is weighing the factors the same way. For some, convenience is paramount. The most critical competition for the AT&T app is other nav apps on the iPhone, not stand-alone GPS units. As you point out, many who would be willing to go the stand-alone route have already done so and aren't interested in an iPhone nav app at any price. (Well, maybe free. :))

The reason I got my wife a stand-alone GPS is that she doesn't have (or want) an iPhone. I do have an iPhone, and I don't intend to get a stand-alone GPS for myself.

The reason you would want both the iPhone and the GPS on the dash is so you can access the iPhone for purposes other than nav, such as making phone calls. :) I've had an iPhone mount sitting permanently on my dash for months, and no thief has been tempted by it. Maybe thieves are smart enough to recognize that an empty cellphone holder means the cellphone is on the driver's belt somewhere.

I don't know why you think the iPhone is more sensitive than a stand-alone GPS. They are basically the same technology. Anyway, I've been using a RAM handlebar mount for the iPhone on my bicycle for a while. Works great.

Once TomTom and others flesh out the nav app offerings, we'll see how they stack up against the AT&T app. The great thing is, if I find something more appealing that I want to use, I can just cancel the AT&T service.

alessandro.jeff
Jun 26, 2009, 10:19 AM
Though features are good.But giving more money is always makes my cry..

Flowbee
Jun 26, 2009, 11:50 PM
By the way, for one to use the TomTom app, you shall be required to use a windshield mount, meaning that, you shall always have to take away the mount each time you park at a public (or even private) place, as the mount is what makes the thieves know you have a GPS system, thus enticing them to break in and see if you have left it at the cup holder console or the glove compartment!!! Therefore, the inconvenience of taking out the mount applies to all, iPhone users and stand alone users alike!

The windshield mount is an optional accessory for the TomTom app. It will not be required. I've been keeping my iPhone in my center cup holder. I can hear the turn directions just fine and it's easy to glance at the screen if I need to. It's no more distracting than glancing at my car's radio or clock.

iluvgr8tdeals
Jun 27, 2009, 02:35 AM
The windshield mount is an optional accessory for the TomTom app. It will not be required. I've been keeping my iPhone in my center cup holder. I can hear the turn directions just fine and it's easy to glance at the screen if I need to. It's no more distracting than glancing at my car's radio or clock.

We can also argue that the windshield mounts for the stand alone units are optional accessories, but there a few reasons that the windshield mount for the iPhone when used with the TomTom app might be a very very very good idea (and not having it a very very very bad idea)

- Safety issue. The TomTom iPhone car kit that offers secure docking. The windshield mount is made for the iPhone. Your center cup holder (or other corner where your iPhone, now functioning as your GPS unit, is placed) isn't. Yes, you may belong to the select few who can glance quickly at your center console, (thus having your eyes off the road 'momentarily') but majority cannot, or do not want to deal with the dire consequences that may result out of doing so.


- The new windshield mount shall be made to act as a charger for your iPhone. Look at this site and see complaints about battery life when used 'normally'; using your iPhone as a GPS unit shall require constant battery juice, meaning that a charger might be a good thing. How about the mount acting as a charger, killing two birds with one stone.

- It is rumored that the new dock shall have a GPS chip embedded onto it to ensure enhanced GPS performance, especially for those who have the iPhone 2g and 3G. Well, I don't know whether the GPS works better when it has unfettered access to the heavens, but it is rumored that it works better. So, it is better to have the iPhone resting on a dock with an unobstructed view on the windshield, rather than an undocked iPhone resting on an obstructed cup holder.

I have plagiarized my two cents from http://iphone.tomtom.com/ and http://gps.about.com/b/2009/06/10/more-details-on-tomtom-for-iphone-mount-has-its-own-gps-chip.htm

Randman
Jun 27, 2009, 02:40 AM
Well, I'm going on vacation right after the 4th and my drive is around 1,650 miles one way. If TomTom or Navigon aren't out, I'm going to go with the AT&T and cancel after a month. Better than nothing.

iluvgr8tdeals
Jun 27, 2009, 02:51 AM
'I don't know why you think the iPhone is more sensitive than a stand-alone GPS. They are basically the same technology. Anyway, I've been using a RAM handlebar mount for the iPhone on my bicycle for a while. Works great.'

It's not the technology. I just think that the iPhone is a very 'sensitive' phone. It is not as rugged as, say, a Treo 650 or Nokia N95. It scratches easily, has a screen that cracks and scratches easily, and also costs a lot more money to replace. I know squaretrade insures the iPhone, but for the majority, once the iPhone cracks, falls down or swims in a sink, you are doomed. My Treo 650 once fell into some water. I dried it out and it continued functioning. I keep my iPhone miles away from any water, lest the 'litmus' paper turns red/pink!

I have seen very few people carry the iPhone on a belt holster, which I used to do (and see many people also doing) with my Treo 650. I wouldn't dare do so with my iPhone. I baby it like crazy, only put it in my left-side pocket, and I do not put anything in this pocket, lest the screen (which has a cover) gets scratched!

I also think a lot of this 'babying of iPhones' has to do with the good resale value of the iPhone. If you present it to a prospective buyer in pristine condition, you fetch more for it. (I presume, I think I am right) If it has scratches and a crack on the side or screen, well...

When riding a bike, I presume that there is a slight chance the GPS unit (be it the iPhone or TomTom) might fall loose. I feel that you have a better chance of salvaging a fallen TomTom than a fallen iPhone! That's what I mean by sensitive. Like a new shiny convertible, you only drive it when it is sunny, never drive it in the rain, and never in the snow, and always pack it in the garage...

JonB3Z
Jun 27, 2009, 08:24 AM
It's not the technology. I just think that the iPhone is a very 'sensitive' phone.

No, it really isn't. While the case can get scratched or cracked, so can that of a "normal" cell phone -- as I can easily prove using my collection of old cell phones! (Including some that did not survive a dunking.)

I have seen very few people carry the iPhone on a belt holster, which I used to do (and see many people also doing) with my Treo 650. I wouldn't dare do so with my iPhone. I baby it like crazy, only put it in my left-side pocket, and I do not put anything in this pocket, lest the screen (which has a cover) gets scratched!

Despite what you say, the screen is not easily scratched. I've been carrying mine in a belt holster for months, and I've even dropped in on pavement a couple of times. No problems. My 13-year-old son has a Touch that he treats like crap -- just carries it in his pocket, with no protective covering of any kind. The case is scratched all to hell, but the screen is fine.

When riding a bike, I presume that there is a slight chance the GPS unit (be it the iPhone or TomTom) might fall loose. I feel that you have a better chance of salvaging a fallen TomTom than a fallen iPhone!

What makes you think a TomTom device -- including its screen -- is more rugged? Have you tested one by dropping it or abrading the screen?

Your concerns about the fragility of the iPhone are frankly misplaced. I'm sure there are those who share them, but I think you are incorrectly projecting them onto the iPhone population as a whole. I treat my iPhone as the tool it is, and it has so far proven itself up to the task of standing up to daily use and occasional abuse. No, I wouldn't put it in the same pocket as my keys, but I wouldn't do that with any other cell phone or electronic device, either!

t.gillespie
Jun 27, 2009, 11:34 AM
Absolutely no way will I pay $10 per month. I will pay a one time charge and then maybe a periodic charge to get new maps. Hopefully TomTom or Garmin do this as they have done with other phones.

It's interesting. xRoads has a GPS app in the App Stpore called G-Map for $24.95.. Ive been using that for a few months.. It's not great, but for a one time $24.95 it's a hell of a lot better than $10/mo. It does have it's faults, mainly it's related to restrictions of the version 2 iphone firmware. It has trouble figuring out what road your on if their are several roads running very close parellel(IE normal road running along side a highway).. hehe and it's ability to figure out how fast your going is goofy.. From what I understand though, these issues are related to how iPhone 2.0 Firmware allows them to access the GPS hardware in the phone..

That being said, that just means I'm very much looking forward to their update for the 3.0 firmware - The app will be able to take advantage of the direct access to the GPS hardware(hell of a lot more accurate and faster route updates) and the added Turn-by-Turn and new landscape mode..

they demo'd it on YouTube - looks very nice.

In the end though, I'll still be compairing this to TomTom and may end up goign that way in the long run, but it's an ok interm solution.

Flowbee
Jun 27, 2009, 12:43 PM
We can also argue that the windshield mounts for the stand alone units are optional accessories, but there a few reasons that the windshield mount for the iPhone when used with the TomTom app might be a very very very good idea (and not having it a very very very bad idea)

The fact is that the windshield mount is optional, and not "required" as you previously stated. People will be able to purchase and use the TomTom app without the TomTom windshield mount.

- It is rumored that the new dock shall have a GPS chip embedded onto it to ensure enhanced GPS performance, especially for those who have the iPhone 2g and 3G.

This is a completely baseless rumor. There is no mention of an additional GPS chip (or even antenna) in any of TomTom's marketing materials, and there was no mention of it a WWDC. Either of these would be big selling points, and not likely to be omitted from their marketing.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some companies were currently working on GPS hardware that connects to the iPhone's dock connector. But the TomTom dock is simply a windshield mount/charger with some holes in it to allow "speakerphone" function.

Well, I don't know whether the GPS works better when it has unfettered access to the heavens, but it is rumored that it works better. So, it is better to have the iPhone resting on a dock with an unobstructed view on the windshield, rather than an undocked iPhone resting on an obstructed cup holder.

I prefer to keep my windshield unobstructed. My iPhone rests comfortably in my cup holder, gets a clear GPS signal, and is completely unobstructed.

JonB3Z
Jun 28, 2009, 03:24 AM
This is a completely baseless rumor. There is no mention of an additional GPS chip (or even antenna) in any of TomTom's marketing materials, and there was no mention of it a WWDC. Either of these would be big selling points, and not likely to be omitted from their marketing.


It is not baseless, although it may not be accurate. It stems from TomTom's WWDC announcement where the cradle was described as giving "enhanced GPS performance." There are only two plausible ways I can think of to enhance the GPS performance: an external antenna and an external GPS receiver. I don't believe the iPhone provides any means of connecting an external antenna. It is conceivable, but unlikely, that the cradle could couple a proxy GPS signal into the iPhone. The most likely possibility, therefore, is that the cradle contains the same GPS reception hardware used in TomTom's stand-alone units, with the data from the GPS sent to the iPhone via the 30-pin connector.

I've tried them side-by-side, and the receiver in a stand-alone TomTom unit is much better than the iPhone's GPS receiver. (It may be the antenna that makes the difference rather than the receiver, but the point is that the performance is much better.) So it would make perfect sense for TomTom to offer a cradle that would bring their iPhone app up to the same level of performance as their stand-alone units.

TomTom has released very little detail so far, so I wouldn't take the lack of a specific mention of a feature to mean that feature doesn't exist. Once TomTom announces a ship date and releases the real marketing material, we'll see.

Tom G.
Jun 28, 2009, 07:11 AM
Actually Verizon does charge a monthly rate for their turn by turn navigation system, but they also have a daily rate where you can pay for just the day you need it. Do you need a turn by turn system every day? Most likely not, so why should you have to pay for it? Once or twice a month or less you might need it so you pay for just that usage.

To make you pay for something you won't use that often smells of pure greed, especially when you're complaining about bandwith usage.

iluvgr8tdeals
Jun 28, 2009, 07:13 AM
The fact is that the windshield mount is optional, and not "required" as you previously stated. People will be able to purchase and use the TomTom app without the TomTom windshield mount.



This is a completely baseless rumor. There is no mention of an additional GPS chip (or even antenna) in any of TomTom's marketing materials, and there was no mention of it a WWDC. Either of these would be big selling points, and not likely to be omitted from their marketing.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some companies were currently working on GPS hardware that connects to the iPhone's dock connector. But the TomTom dock is simply a windshield mount/charger with some holes in it to allow "speakerphone" function.



I prefer to keep my windshield unobstructed. My iPhone rests comfortably in my cup holder, gets a clear GPS signal, and is completely unobstructed.

Flowbee,

You did not open my second link that described the windshield mount having its own GPS chip and antenna. I shall post the link again and actually highlight what a TomTom insider said about it. Here goes...

http://gps.about.com/b/2009/06/10/more-details-on-tomtom-for-iphone-mount-has-its-own-gps-chip.htm

Tom Murray, TomTom's vice president for market development... For example, in the demo, TomTom stated that the mount "enhances" the iPhone's GPS. Really? How so? Turns out, the windshield mount actually has its own GPS chip and antenna inside, and when the iPhone is docked to the mount, it relies on the mount's GPS, says Murray. Wow. So much for depending on the iPhone's anemic GPS. The mount will "enhance reception in challenging areas, such as among tall buildings," says Murray.

I said that it was a rumor because I cannot prove it 100%. But, was it not a rumor that a new iPhone would be coming out in June 2009, or that the new iPhone OS would bring in cut, copy and paste, MMS, tethering, landscape, etc, etc. This rumor is one that can be categorized as those that usually turn out to be true!

gber
Jun 28, 2009, 08:28 AM
It makes sense that the TomTom dock would have its own GPS chip and antenna. The cost of these chips is about $3 and would extend the Application to the 1st gen iPhone and iPod touch...maybe!

Macintosh Sauce
Jun 29, 2009, 08:24 PM
Dude! we (you) bend over and take it everyday from Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, Roadrunner, Optimum Online, Con Edison, Dish Network, DirectTV, Sprint, T-Mobile, Qwest, GM, Wall Street, Exxon, Uncle Sam everyday. How is this different??

I knew there was a reason why my ass hurts so much. LOL

kingdLo
Jun 30, 2009, 08:55 AM
Does anyone else have issues with this app being horrible slow and inaccurate?

marco114
Jun 30, 2009, 09:05 AM
a little slow, when I went a different direction than it told me, it kept thinking I was going the right way and it took almost 30 seconds before it started to re-calculate. i am definitely waiting for Tom tom..

Also, when getting a call, you are screwed, might as well pull over. maybe a headset would fix this problem?

raremage
Jun 30, 2009, 02:31 PM
I agree. $10/month for turn by turn GPS is standard.

Standard? There's a standard?

On Sprint, Navigation is included at no additional cost - so to them, $0/month is apparently the standard.

Others are selling the apps for a flat fee, with no monthly fee.

So why on earth would you claim this is "standard"...?

NightStorm
Jun 30, 2009, 03:34 PM
Well, I'm going on vacation right after the 4th and my drive is around 1,650 miles one way. If TomTom or Navigon aren't out, I'm going to go with the AT&T and cancel after a month. Better than nothing.
This is exactly my plan as well for my vacation starting later this week.

kdarling
Jun 30, 2009, 03:48 PM
On Sprint, Navigation is included at no additional cost - so to them, $0/month is apparently the standard. Others are selling the apps for a flat fee, with no monthly fee. So why on earth would you claim this is "standard"...?

Perhaps he did so because the thread topic is ATT Navigator (http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/navigator/rules_popup.aspx)... which is $9.95 a month for all their compatible phones.

If the topic was TBT apps for all carriers and all phones in the world, then you would definitely have a point.

kmiahali
Jun 30, 2009, 04:49 PM
This may come in handy for those who want use their phones on the go and have the ease of using it while driving. It is great that phones are advancing this much, now if only phones could serve you food and transport you around the world that would be great.

agkm800
Jun 30, 2009, 05:17 PM
Monthly subscription? No thanks.

I will just keep my Garmin nuvi.

diamond.g
Jun 30, 2009, 07:37 PM
Monthly subscription? No thanks.

I will just keep my Garmin nuvi.

Don't those need the yearly map updates?

iluvgr8tdeals
Jul 4, 2009, 02:19 AM
Don't those need the yearly map updates?

Yes they do, but many people usually don't pay for the updates (hence the feeling that $10 per month is on the higher side...)

samab
Jul 4, 2009, 09:27 AM
Yes they do, but many people usually don't pay for the updates (hence the feeling that $10 per month is on the higher side...)

Just as you don't have to pay for yearly updates for maps --- you also don't have to pay $10 every month as well.

Pay 2 months in July and August for the summer and 2-3 "day subscriptions" for long weekends --- amount to less than $30 a year.

iluvgr8tdeals
Jul 9, 2009, 05:07 AM
Just as you don't have to pay for yearly updates for maps --- you also don't have to pay $10 every month as well.

Pay 2 months in July and August for the summer and 2-3 "day subscriptions" for long weekends --- amount to less than $30 a year.

If you don't pay for the yearly updates, the stand-alone gps units still works (with outdated maps) However, if you don't pay the $10 monthly subscription, shall the app work? I don't think so.

samab
Jul 9, 2009, 12:00 PM
If you don't pay for the yearly updates, the stand-alone gps units still works (with outdated maps) However, if you don't pay the $10 monthly subscription, shall the app work? I don't think so.

Along with outdated maps, you also don't have live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing. NONE of the one-time payment iphone nav apps come with live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing.

Reality is a lot more complex than just "onetime payment good, subscription fees bad".

Tunnelrunner
Jul 9, 2009, 12:54 PM
Along with outdated maps, you also don't have live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing. NONE of the one-time payment iphone nav apps come with live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing.

Reality is a lot more complex than just "onetime payment good, subscription fees bad".

Not to take sides here (I love Telenav and swear by it BUT I will also be getting the TomTom app as a backup to Telenav in the unlikely event I lose a data connection--it's honestly never happened before but you never know) but I did want to also point out that it IS nice to not have to install a 1-2GB monster on your iPhone. Ex: everytime G-Map releases an update, it takes me about 1-2 hours (on Wi-Fi) to complete the update and get it on my iPhone. When I installed 1.7 (IIRC?) GB-sized Sygic, it took 2 hours to download and another 30 minutes to sync onto the iPhone. So updating on one-time fee/non-subscription GPS apps that have pre-loaded maps is usually a very time and space consuming process. Again, not advocating one side over the other (I do believe everyone should have one of both), just pointing out something that I think a lot of people never think about because they just want something that doesn't have a monthly fee.

d21mike
Jul 9, 2009, 01:14 PM
Along with outdated maps, you also don't have live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing. NONE of the one-time payment iphone nav apps come with live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing.

Reality is a lot more complex than just "onetime payment good, subscription fees bad".

Not sure you are accurate as it relates to LIVE Information.

Not sure what the following cost but I think there are options for live traffic on the standalone units if needed. I have not used them on my unit because I don't travel that much on a daily basis.


On the Garmin Web Site:

The addition of XM Traffic, Weather and Radio services to your compatible Garmin makes driving with GPS essential, even if you know where you're going. With an optional subscription to XM NavTraffic™, your Garmin notifies you of accidents, road construction, and weather-related traffic delays before they are encountered, and then offers an alternate route. XM WX Weather™ brings real-time, animated weather data directly to your unit, so you can steer clear of bad weather. Add XM Satellite Radio to the mix for hours of commercial-free listening enjoyment

On the TomTom Web Site:

Including 3 month trial to LIVE Services in the UK: a real-time connection to HD Traffic, Safety Alerts, Fuel prices, Local search with Google and more.

samab
Jul 9, 2009, 01:25 PM
Not sure you are accurate as it relates to LIVE Information.

Not sure what the following cost but I think there are options for live traffic on the standalone units if needed. I have not used them on my unit because I don't travel that much on a daily basis.


On the Garmin Web Site:

The addition of XM Traffic, Weather and Radio services to your compatible Garmin makes driving with GPS essential, even if you know where you're going. With an optional subscription to XM NavTraffic™, your Garmin notifies you of accidents, road construction, and weather-related traffic delays before they are encountered, and then offers an alternate route. XM WX Weather™ brings real-time, animated weather data directly to your unit, so you can steer clear of bad weather. Add XM Satellite Radio to the mix for hours of commercial-free listening enjoyment

On the TomTom Web Site:

Including 3 month trial to LIVE Services in the UK: a real-time connection to HD Traffic, Safety Alerts, Fuel prices, Local search with Google and more.

There aren't too many iphone nav apps around --- the one-time payments iphone nav apps are Sygic, Navigon, XRoad's G-Map. None of them include live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing.

With respect to stand-alone GPS nav devices, the cheaper devices don't come with FM receivers --- so you have to buy a separate FM receiver hardware unit and buy a separate live traffic subscription. The more expensive devices come with built-in FM receivers, so you just have to get the live traffic subscription.

johnntd
Jul 9, 2009, 02:10 PM
There aren't too many iphone nav apps around --- the one-time payments iphone nav apps are Sygic, Navigon, XRoad's G-Map. None of them include live traffic information and automatic live traffic re-routing.

With respect to stand-alone GPS nav devices, the cheaper devices don't come with FM receivers --- so you have to buy a separate FM receiver hardware unit and buy a separate live traffic subscription. The more expensive devices come with built-in FM receivers, so you just have to get the live traffic subscription.

For about $250 you can get the Navigon with lifetime traffic report. I have a Garmin Nuvi ($169) with $70 lifetime map update and $120 lifetime traffic report subcription.

samab
Jul 9, 2009, 02:21 PM
For about $250 you can get the Navigon with lifetime traffic report. I have a Garmin Nuvi ($169) with $70 lifetime map update and $120 lifetime traffic report subcription.

But you have to be careful with so-called lifetime subscriptions.

Navigon just got out of the US PND market --- so if you bought a Navigon device, you have to wonder whether those lifetime subscriptions would mean anything in the future.