iPod Encoding?

[MacRumors]

Appleinsider sources (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=465) report that Apple is planning on using a new microchip for the upcoming 4th generation iPods.

The new microchip is said to incorporate various encoding capabilities. While unclear if Apple will take advantage of the new features in an upcoming iPod revision, recording/encoding capabilities have amongst the list of user-requested features.

Currently, the iPod is capable of audio-in recording only through 3rd party add-on devices.

[nagromme]

I thought the iPod already had recording capability built in--like that hack that was floating around to enable a brief test recording. The add-on recording unit doesn't actually digitize, I don't think, it just provides a mic and enabled an otherwise hidden part of the iPod software. The iPod itself still does the encoding, right?

So this rumor may really be just about encoding into alternative formats not currently used for voice memos?

In any case, the PortalPlayer chip already does plenty that the iPod doesn't support--like WMA (and Ogg Vorbis?) playback and CD burning.

I'm still looking forward to the 4G iPod though!

[iMeowbot]

Yep, the PP5002 (http://www.portalplayer.com/products/documents/5002_brief_0108_Public.pdf) in the existing iPod models already supports real-time encoding to MP3 and WMA, so a newer chipset doesn't necessarily mean that encoding would be made available to the end user.

[Corozive]

Are we getting a step closer to color LCD displays?
PDA's went colour, mobile phones went colour, it's about time the ipod went colour.

[BornAgainMac]

I would like to see a flash card reader built-in as well as mic and audio in. The third-party solutions are too bulky and I understand the card reader was poorly implemented as far as speed. Maybe those features are to hard to have built-in without increasing the size. Personally, I would like to see an Apple phone rather than a new iPod if the iPod is just going to focus on music anyways.

[killmoms]

Frankly, I'd be happy if they just dropped the prices on the 3rd gen iPods (and the iPod mini) $50 across the board and called it a day, so I could stop taking flak for being a "rich bitch" every time I suggest the iPod to someone.

Argh.

--Cless

[nate13]

Are we getting a step closer to color LCD displays?
PDA's went colour, mobile phones went colour, it's about time the ipod went colour.

There is no practial use of color screens, aside from photo viewing. Movies would take too much battery. and the resolution would be too poor fro photos. if the battery life is eight hours now, it would be three with the color screen. If battery life is a strong issue now, think of a 4 hour battery! :mad: NO SALES! I say, go with better encoding!!:D
~Nate13

[virividox]

enconding on the go? i dunno maybe if it doesnt affect battery life which isnt stellar but still good then go for it

[BeigeUser]

There is no practial use of color screens, aside from photo viewing. Movies would take too much battery. and the resolution would be too poor fro photos. if the battery life is eight hours now, it would be three with the color screen. If battery life is a strong issue now, think of a 4 hour battery! :mad: NO SALES! I say, go with better encoding!!:D
~Nate13

Isn't "good looks" reason enough to add color screens? If a average consumer goes in a store and sees a color screen, I'm sure that person will be more impressed than a black & white screen. Apple is likely to add more built-in games in the future. Might as well make them color games. Maybe the iPod can display album covers as it plays music.

I don't think it will drain the battery as much as you fear. The only thing that might bother an average consumer is the added price. But if Apple can find a cheap, reliable vendor, I'd say go for it.

[rosalindavenue]

Yep, the PP5002 (http://www.portalplayer.com/products/documents/5002_brief_0108_Public.pdf) in the existing iPod models already supports real-time encoding to MP3 and WMA, so a newer chipset doesn't necessarily mean that encoding would be made available to the end user.

In another one the 4th gen iPod speculation threads, someone said that a lot the features getting talked about (other than, obviously, the color screen) could be accomplished via firmware upgrades and/or via a new dock. Given that the portalplayer chip already supports so many of these features, I'm optimistic that apple will be able to at least bring the 3g owners along for a big part of the 4th gen ride. How great would that be-- it would sure take a lot of the sting out of having paid $400-$500, and the PR for apple would be incredible.

[neonart]

If I had to add anything to the iPod it would be text input and a build it mic. That way you can record without any attachments, and adding and editing contacts and notes would be done right on the Pod.

Color screens may be nice, but only if it does not kill the battery. My 2nd gen 20GB will play as much as 12-13 hours if left alone on random. The new ones sometimes don't even meet their advertised battery specs. If Color screens bring that down any, then thats not good. Besides, a whole new inteface would need to be inplemented. The current simple, easy to use iPod interface would not look any better in color.

My 2¢.

[johnnyjibbs]

I don't think it will drain the battery as much as you fear. The only thing that might bother an average consumer is the added price. But if Apple can find a cheap, reliable vendor, I'd say go for it.
Why do you think it took nearly 10 years for GameBoy to go colour? Game Gear, Atari Lynx - they were all much better technically but no-one wanted them because they only had an hour of battery life.

[urbangrind]

I feel that we are going to see an iPod that doesn't change much. I feel the srceen will stay the same, because as someone else said, what would you need a colour screen for? I think that we are going to see the video out but no playback on iPod screen and no photos on iPod screen. It will and I feel should stay a relatively music focused devise. Let another devise do all that everyone is hoping the 4th gen iPod will do and more. Say something like the Newton.

Why is no one talking about a return of the Newton? A PDA built on top of the iPod design. Capable of all the iPod does now but with so much more.

This is what I think we are going to see:

iPod Mini - Staying pretty much as operationally limited (e.g. will not boot as a drive) as it is but slowly creeping up in hard drive size.
iPod - Staying basically the same, but with increasing harddrive sizes and the addition of a video out.
Newton - A fully functional PDA. About the size of the 3G iPod but with a full length/width screen and stylus input. Audio out, video out, etc. Blue tooth. Mini OS X. Mini iTunes, mini dvd player for video playback and video out. Just think of all the awsome mini apps we could get. Maybe phone capabilities, but maybe not for the first generation.

Blah...

Or I have not idea what I am talking about and I am about to cop some harsh critism. But if apple builds a Newton like this I will buy it even if it costs as much as my iMac. :)

[stoid]

This is GREAT Marketing!!

These little guys are FLYING off the shelves because they kick so much ass.

Apple releases a new version of the iPod that makes the 3G look like a Dell Digital Jukebox or whatever that thing is called, and stir up another buying rush.

They need something to separate the iPod and it's HP re-brand.

[ericdano]

I would like to see a flash card reader built-in as well as mic and audio in. The third-party solutions are too bulky and I understand the card reader was poorly implemented as far as speed. Maybe those features are to hard to have built-in without increasing the size. Personally, I would like to see an Apple phone rather than a new iPod if the iPod is just going to focus on music anyways.

Forget the flash card reader. Seriously, you and maybe 2 other people would want that.

I'd like to see a touch screen where you could use the iPod as a PDA and enter addresses and calendar information. I'd ditch my Palm Vx if the iPod could handle entry of data......

[whyrichard]

new "ipod" and dock will eventually become like a wireless tivo with a removable harddrive, that can also do all ipod related music playing.

a tivo with a removable harddrive would permit watching video anywhere there is a nice screen: your laptop on the go, your living room tv at home, or your office computer at work. desk on ipod feature may also be enabled.

screen, if color, will probably be an organic led screen to preserve battery life and look fantastic. a new tech that is slowly coming out in consumer products.

later this year an apple branded component will be announced that will preform the same functions except be better integrated to tv/speaker systems through the use of a larger interface and better interconnects.

r.

[~Shard~]

Frankly, I'd be happy if they just dropped the prices on the 3rd gen iPods (and the iPod mini) $50 across the board and called it a day, so I could stop taking flak for being a "rich bitch" every time I suggest the iPod to someone.

Argh.

--Cless

Heh heh - I've experienced the same reaction quite a few times. I tell my friends and co-workers that I bought this snazzy iPod in the States (I live in Canada), and when they ask "How much?", I say, "$400... ... American..." (which is about $550 Canadian right now) - after I show them my iPod and all it can do, they warm up to it, but for some people, they just cringe at the cost. Ah well, their loss - and I guess as a result I look "richer" to them than I actually am, so whatever... ;) :cool:

[urbangrind]

Forget the flash card reader. Seriously, you and maybe 2 other people would want that.

I'd like to see a touch screen where you could use the iPod as a PDA and enter addresses and calendar information. I'd ditch my Palm Vx if the iPod could handle entry of data......

That first bit made me laugh, good point.

Secondly, what you are talking about is not an iPod as I see it. The things you are suggesting are the sorts of things I feel we are going to see in a completely new devise.

[johnnyjibbs]

I agree with those who say to keep the iPod focused on music. Adding things like photo and video output are good and can be there because - if you've got a large portable hard drive (effectively what an iPod is), why not use it for other stuff?

Video out when hooked up to a TV is something we might see, watching videos on the iPod, we won't. Maybe the encoding has something to do with QuickTime and the ability to convert data into video for output on the big screen.

[ericdano]

That first bit made me laugh, good point.

Secondly, what you are talking about is not an iPod as I see it. The things you are suggesting are the sorts of things I feel we are going to see in a completely new devise.

Really? Why would it be a new device? The next logical step would be to put a entry screen on the iPod. They already let you sync up iCal and Addresses to it. Why not let people enter stuff on it. It would increase the functionality 10 fold.

[urbangrind]

Really? Why would it be a new device? The next logical step would be to put a entry screen on the iPod. They already let you sync up iCal and Addresses to it. Why not let people enter stuff on it. It would increase the functionality 10 fold.

I don't think everyone wants a PDA especially if once all the features a PDA has it may cost a lot more than a regular iPod. It would be for a different market. Say the business market. The best PDA would look great with your PowerBook.

[urbangrind]

Video out when hooked up to a TV is something we might see, watching videos on the iPod, we won't. Maybe the encoding has something to do with QuickTime and the ability to convert data into video for output on the big screen.

I think you are onto it.

[johnnyjibbs]

I've never been an advocate for a device "that does everything". The iPod is primarily a music player - that's its purpose, and so it does that very well. People get one so they can escape and listen to their favourite tunes on the move, maybe while doing something else. As soon as you add more and more things it becomes a jack of all trades and a master of none.

For instance, the all-in-one set-top-box has never really happened. And prior to PS2 and Xbox release, everyone was talking about how people were going to do their knitting on a PS2. In reality, some people watch the odd DVD on them but most just play games. And most people have a better quality, dedicated DVD player so they watch movies on that instead of the PS2.

I like Nintendo's philosophy, and it's similar to Apples. The GameCube was designed just for games. It may not be the number one console, but it certainly does what it says it does very well. Just like the iPod is in its chosen field.

Another example is my phone. My one can make calls and I like it because it's small. I don't care for playing games on it because I have a Game Boy for that. The Game Boy is infinitely better at playing games than the best phones so I can use that. And my phone is smaller and has more battery life because of it. After all, I don't want to play games absolutely wherever I go so I don't need to take it everywhere on my phone.

If the iPod had all these new complicated features, a colour screen, and had an in-built DVD player it would have to be bigger. This would then compromise its ability to be a small and best-of-field music player (including less battery life). Most of the time you don't want to watch a movie - and, as Jobs said himself, there's no substitute to headphones with video - you're stuck with a tiny and low quality screen.

Therefore I don't expect the new iPods to be very different to the current. Maybe video out capabilities (why not?), and maybe a face redesign (similar to the iPod mini and ironically the 2nd generation iPod) and higher capacities. As soon as you start putting on touch screens and stylus pens or colour monitors and flash card sockets, it becomes one of those useless jack of all trades but master of none things and suddenly you've lost the reason to own an iPod in the first place. Remember, escapism.

[cxny]

All I'm missing is a radio. Satellite radio eventually, but just plain old FM for now would be awesome. I could use a color screen for improved resolution although that may lead to shorter battery life and poorer visability in sunlight. Album art would be a cool feature but please don't try to become a video hub. It's all about the MUSIC.

[urbangrind]

I still think we aren't talking baout a bigger better iPod, i think we are talking about a whole new device.

And here is why. I can't prove anything, but when a friend of mine was at a trade show in Germany about two weeks ago. While browsing around the massive Apple tent, he can across a large group of people oohing and aahing over and apple PDA, not and iPod. the details from him were sketchy but he said it had a full length/width screen, with stylus input.

He said it is going to be expensive but the iPod prices are coming down, and not to be surprised if we don't see it for another 6 months. Call be all lies, but it does make for a good rumor.

[ericdano]

I still think we aren't talking baout a bigger better iPod, i think we are talking about a whole new device.

And here is why. I can't prove anything, but when a friend of mine was at a trade show in Germany about two weeks ago. While browsing around the massive Apple tent, he can across a large group of people oohing and aahing over and apple PDA, not and iPod. the details from him were sketchy but he said it had a full length/width screen, with stylus input.

He said it is going to be expensive but the iPod prices are coming down, and not to be surprised if we don't see it for another 6 months. Call be all lies, but it does make for a good rumor.

Got Pictures? Links? Stories?

[urbangrind]

Got Pictures? Links? Stories?

No pictures! No links! Just the story!

But why not? Why cannot such a device be in the making?

[hob]

All I'm missing is a radio. Satellite radio eventually, but just plain old FM for now would be awesome. I could use a color screen for improved resolution although that may lead to shorter battery life and poorer visability in sunlight. Album art would be a cool feature but please don't try to become a video hub. It's all about the MUSIC.

At the moment, yes - but don't forget it's called the iPod, not the iJukebox!! I think by leaving the name open, Apple are leaving themselves some breathing room incase they want to add PDA/Video functionality to it.

Someone mentioned DVD playback? I can just see it now - a square box with a slot-loading drive on the top that's the same depth as a powerbook and the same dimensions as the superdrive, with a colour screen built into it, and a stylus... It could rival those tablet pc's, if anyone's actually interested in them!

Personally, I tend to agree with the comment that it's better to have a device that does what it does well, but playing MP3's isn't exactly a hard task. I'd rather have a newton-like device built on top of an ipod... maybe we could have a 3G upgrade that would just snap onto the front! :D

Hob

[Windowlicker]

Really? Why would it be a new device? The next logical step would be to put a entry screen on the iPod. They already let you sync up iCal and Addresses to it. Why not let people enter stuff on it. It would increase the functionality 10 fold.

this indeed is a thing i'd like to see. being able to view calendar and addresses us great, but usually when I have to input an address, i'm on the road with my ipod, so I actually have to write it down somewhere (= cell phone) and when i get home i can put it to ical. would be so much cooler, if I could just take a pen and write it to my ipod!

this surely isn't something everyone needs, but i guess there'd be a market for iPalm ;)

[urbangrind]

I said DVD playback, but that is silly. I actually ment something more like Quicktime format movies. Personally I wouldn't use such a function. But it is no doubt possible.

And when I said built on top of the iPod, I just ment a device that design wise started with the capabilities of the iPod and kept building on it conceptually.

[mainstreetmark]

Why WOULDN'T you want the ability to have your iPhotos on the iPod? It's well understood that the resolution is less than ideal, but it's better than my cellphone, and everyone and their brother want me to look at pictures on their cellphone. It's such an easy thing to add. If I'm stuck on some plane and I'm bored playing Sabatage (or, wait... Parachute), perhaps I will want to look at all my pictures. That'd be swell.

[sinisterdesign]

All I'm missing is a radio. Satellite radio eventually, but just plain old FM for now would be awesome. I could use a color screen for improved resolution although that may lead to shorter battery life and poorer visability in sunlight. Album art would be a cool feature but please don't try to become a video hub. It's all about the MUSIC.

yeah, i guess. it's an obvious feature to add & a lot of the PC players already have this, but my personal opinion is one of the main reasons i bought an iPod was so i didn't HAVE to listen to the crap that's on the radio. but, i know there's a demand for it, too. it couldn't be difficult to add, just not a priority for this iPodder...

(but i am w/ you on the color screen. i'm a designer, so i like the pretty pictures of album art. fluff? maybe, but it still looks nice)

[urbangrind]

Why WOULDN'T you want the ability to have your iPhotos on the iPod? It's well understood that the resolution is less than ideal, but it's better than my cellphone, and everyone and their brother want me to look at pictures on their cellphone. It's such an easy thing to add. If I'm stuck on some plane and I'm bored playing Sabatage (or, wait... Parachute), perhaps I will want to look at all my pictures. That'd be swell.

So maybe we will get photos on the iPod but an iPalm or Newton could be so much more than just photos on your iPod which has a pretty average screen for viewing them. And I see no sense in upgrading the screen dramatically just for photos when as a music player the current operating interface and therefore screen is awesome. But they are creative over at apple and like someone suggested before a new screen might bring a new operating interface.

[Chaszmyr]

No no you're all wrong, a RELIABLE source told me that it is in fact VIDEO encoding. There is an adapter to connect your iPod to a video-out port on your TV, DVD player, VCR, or Cable box, and the iPod records video and then uploads it to your mac.


Okay this is obviously BS... but how cool would this be? :-P

[jcshas]

Just one question - WHEN?

[Steamboatwillie]

I think of my iPods as music players. The other big use I have for my iPods is a portable, bootable hard drive. I could pretty much care less if it can encode WMA, OGG or anything else. I have no use for a color screen. I think those are all neato add ons. To me the iPod is about as perfect as it needs to be. I couldn't be more pleased than I already am.

My 2 cents

[urbangrind]

Just one question - WHEN?

I would like to know too. I need to start a savings plan. :rolleyes:

[urbangrind]

I think of my iPods as music players. The other big use I have for my iPods is a portable, bootable hard drive. I could pretty much care less if it can encode WMA, OGG or anything else. I have no use for a color screen. I think those are all neato add ons. To me the iPod is about as perfect as it needs to be. I couldn't be more pleased than I already am.

My 2 cents

I agree, now lets talk about the Newton!

[flounder]

Ok I am new to all this posting but just what if the iPod was bluetooth enabled (not sure if that would work that great) but it would be cool. Just think about .... off to dream land ... you get in your car and your car responds to you ' Welcome Jason how are you doing I see you brought your ipod would you like me to throw down some tunes for you' or you walk in to your house and you stereo says to you ' Welcome Back Jason, kick off your shoes and let me roll a few hits your way' or even you walk to your computer and it says to you 'Whats up fool, you here again? sweeeet, lets play so hard phat beats yo!' and this is all just walking around with your new 8th generation iPod.... dreaming is fun . :)

[legion]

In another one the 4th gen iPod speculation threads, someone said that a lot the features getting talked about (other than, obviously, the color screen) could be accomplished via firmware upgrades and/or via a new dock. Given that the portalplayer chip already supports so many of these features, I'm optimistic that apple will be able to at least bring the 3g owners along for a big part of the 4th gen ride. How great would that be-- it would sure take a lot of the sting out of having paid $400-$500, and the PR for apple would be incredible.

Ummm, yeahhh, greaat, no. :rolleyes:

Apple's a business and they want to sell you another iPod, not extend the life of your old one. It all comes down to the fact that the iPod is regarded by Apple as a short-life product (like a walkman or a cd player) not like a computer.

[legion]

No pictures! No links! Just the story!

But why not? Why cannot such a device be in the making?

What tradeshow? I can only guess of one in Germany that happened recently where Apple had a presence (and I was there and they showed no such device even to the VIP guests.)

[Flowbee]

I agree, now lets talk about the Newton!

...In another thread, preferably (there are already hundreds of threads about the possibility of a new Apple PDA. This discussion has been going on for years).

[CmdrLaForge]

Why do you think it took nearly 10 years for GameBoy to go colour? Game Gear, Atari Lynx - they were all much better technically but no-one wanted them because they only had an hour of battery life.

But they are today ? Right ? So no reason why the iPod needs to take another 10 years.

[urbangrind]

What tradeshow? I can only guess of one in Germany that happened recently where Apple had a presence (and I was there and they showed no such device even to the VIP guests.)

I don't know how to spell the name of the town in Germany but it sounds like 'Due'-'bi'

It might be BS, I cannot confirm either way.

[AmigoMac]

I don't know how to spell the name of the town in Germany but it sounds like 'Due'-'bi'

It might be BS, I cannot confirm either way.

Düsseldorf ... a big Town ... ;)

[Quarkie]

If the iPod had all these new complicated features, a colour screen, and had an in-built DVD player it would have to be bigger. This would then compromise its ability to be a small and best-of-field music player (including less battery life). Most of the time you don't want to watch a movie - and, as Jobs said himself, there's no substitute to headphones with video - you're stuck with a tiny and low quality screen.

Therefore I don't expect the new iPods to be very different to the current. Maybe video out capabilities (why not?), and maybe a face redesign (similar to the iPod mini and ironically the 2nd generation iPod) and higher capacities. As soon as you start putting on touch screens and stylus pens or colour monitors and flash card sockets, it becomes one of those useless jack of all trades but master of none things and suddenly you've lost the reason to own an iPod in the first place. Remember, escapism.

The comments above illustrate an important point, which is that consumers should be wary of purist rhetoric and spin from Apple regarding dedicated-function consumer devices. Is less more? Sometimes. Is less more when you are missing features, have the wrong price point and lack the resources and vehicles to dominate your corner of the multi-media segment? Probably not.

When it comes to the consumer, Apple is, once again, setting themselves up for "marginalization," and they have no clue about the commodity/converged marketplaces or how to produce or ship large-volume products in a timely manner. Less is less. There's nothing inherently wrong with a dedicated-function device, but it better have the price-point it needs to achieve volume and you better be able to ship it.

In the media space, these realities are coming at Apple so fast, they're not even going to know what hit them. And, besides cheaper dedicated devices, they're coming in the form of the Sony PSP (PlayStation Personal) and other converged/commodity devices.

Comparing Games and Tunes:
Apple has sold 3+ million iPods into the market (since late 2001)...whoopee! Well, Sony has sold over 20 million Playstations and Nintendo has sold a similar number of GameBoy Advance (hand-held) consoles (also since 2001). In fact, in Nov. 2002, Nintendo sold 1.5 million units in a single month and have outsold the iPod overall by approximately 7 to 1. Sony plans to sell 3 million PSP's in a single quarter during the upcoming 2004 Christmas season.

Beyond Sony's initial PSP projection and likely high-volume, competing music-only devices, what do you think the penetration of a hand-held PSP will be with a color display, that will also, no doubt, be able to link to Sony's music store and play color music videos? Oh...and by the way, the Universal Media Disc (UMD) format implemented in the PSP is probably going to become the standard for unifying games and multi-media (music, music videos). What about the cross-marketing potential of such a device?

So, in less than 2 quarters, a multi-media Sony Playstation Personal will easily surpass iPod volumes and drive Sony's music + video + game store. Okey Dokey, Apple iPod/iTMS. Giddyap, donkey.

Nobody expects Apple to make a video game console. I merely use the PSP as an example of a high-volume product in a similar price range to the iPod ($300+) that is going to completely change the market's multi-media focus and shift the standard. Sony basically just has to exhale to set the standard. What can Apple do about that? It's a tough one.

However, Sony will probably have to subsidize initial PSP manufacturing, as Apple should be doing RIGHT NOW with the iPod to achieve volume. But, I guess it doesn't matter what the price or subsidization is if you can't deliver the units. The iPod minis may be on track by the time the PSP appears (Christmas 2004), if Apple is lucky and can figure out how not to be held hostage by disk drive manufacturers. Too bad they don't have higher iPod volumes - that might give them some clout.

I've posted in other threads about Apple's catastrophic business logic failing in regard to the iPod, and it seems like Apple has about 6-12 months before Sony (for example) kicks their sleek, overpriced, 6-week-lead-time butts out of the digital media market "lead position." It's easy to lead when the competition isn't competing yet. The writing is on the wall unless Apple has a major shift in their ideology and understanding about how to target consumer products and own the space they helped define.

[iMan]

I don't know how to spell the name of the town in Germany but it sounds like 'Due'-'bi'

It might be BS, I cannot confirm either way.

Or it is not in Germany at all... ?
Emirates? Dubai?

[Sebas00]

here's a list I think will make the ipod dominant:

1- media readers (compact flash, SD cards, ect...) That will make a digital
camera owner, a must Ipod owner. If I not mistaken, there's already a
player like that already. maybe can display the pictures while on vacation
with output features to tv screen or computers.
2- $50 reduction on all ipods
3- being able to change the battery just like a digital camera.
open bay and pops out the battery. don't have to carry
extra device to give me longer battery life.
4- color screen if there's more games incorporated. But, I prefer battery life
than color screen if it affects it alot.
5- make it a keoki player by being able to display the songs lyrics. Most of the songs I listen don't have lyrics, but I know alot of people who would benefit from this feature, specially women who would love to sing along,and
people from other countries that gives up on try to undersand the true meaning of the song. World won't be a better place.

[Soire]

I'm of course wondering when this is going to happen.

I'm stuck in an uncomfortable position of waiting to buy an iPod, but want that 4th gen sooo bad. My friends all are sporting 20gigers and loving it, but I'm holding out. The personalization offer ends the same day as the Brilliant savings promo, right? I'm wondering if it's really workable to order a 3rd gen. iPod on the last day of the offer, and then if they release new ones at WWDC I'd be covered to return it, right? Yes, this all sounds crazy, like I had ought to just shut up and buy one now- but I'm of the opinion that the consumer is entitled to want the best bang for the buck.

So if nothing comes out by WWDC I'll assume no iPod is coming out till the end of the year, in which case I'm buying right after June.

...Please release the 4th Gen by WWDC! :D

[agentmouthwash]

I would like to see Apple do something like this:

4gb mini-ipod $189
8gb mini-ipod $239

20gb ipod $299
30gb ipod $349
50gb ipod $449

Battery increased to 16 hours - across the board.

iTunes for Linux and Ogg Vorbis support to grab the Linux crowd.

No other fancy gizmos.. i think battery life and lower prices are more important to the ipod then colored screens and recording functions.
Ogg Vorbis is important too. People are buying crappy players just for that.

[Soire]

Comparing Games and Tunes:
Apple has sold 3+ million iPods into the market (since late 2001)...whoopee! Well, Sony has sold over 20 million Playstations and Nintendo has sold a similar number of GameBoy Advance (hand-held) consoles (also since 2001). In fact, in Nov. 2002, Nintendo sold 1.5 million units in a single month and have outsold the iPod overall by approximately 7 to 1. Sony plans to sell 3 million PSP's in a single quarter during the upcoming 2004 Christmas season.

Beyond Sony's initial PSP projection and likely high-volume, competing music-only devices, what do you think the penetration of a hand-held PSP will be with a color display, that will also, no doubt, be able to link to Sony's music store and play color music videos? Oh...and by the way, the Universal Media Disc (UMD) format implemented in the PSP is probably going to become the standard for unifying games and multi-media (music, music videos). What about the cross-marketing potential of such a device?




Wow. Those are some enlightening figures. I may not agree with all your conclusions, and feel that Apple has already established its' own niche for the iPod, but that's some good research.

It's almost to the point of writing a thesis sometimes on these posts. (And of course I stay far from anything so intelligent- see above post) Good work ya'll. :)

[iMeowbot]

Ok I am new to all this posting but just what if the iPod was bluetooth enabled (not sure if that would work that great) but it would be cool. Just think about .... off to dream land ... you get in your car and your car responds to you ' Welcome Jason how are you doing I see you brought your ipod would you like me to throw down some tunes for you' or you walk in to your house and you stereo says to you ' Welcome Back Jason, kick off your shoes and let me roll a few hits your way' or even you walk to your computer and it says to you 'Whats up fool, you here again? sweeeet, lets play so hard phat beats yo!' and this is all just walking around with your new 8th generation iPod.... dreaming is fun . :)

The current Bluetooth standard isn't quite up to doing the job well, but that doesn't mean it will always be that way of course.

A dock in the car works out really well for now, especially since it handles the all-important charging. But what I'd really like to see (and I know this is wishful thinking, given audio manufacturers' addiction to proprietary interfaces) is some kind of universal connector with remote control and power that would let you plug in anyone's portable audio thingy into the front of your home or car stereo.

[jbembe]

Maybe the iPod can display album covers as it plays music.



As far as user interface goes, I think it would be quite excellent to be capable of scrolling through artists/albums by cover art instead of just lists of names. Scrolling a list of names becomes tedious and I often can't think of anything I'm really interested in at the moment so I listen to my whole iPod on random until I hit an artist/album I want to isolate. One thing about the CDs is that I can easily flip through everything and see the album that interests me at the time. Scrolling through my collection by album art would be AWESOME!

[tjanuranus]

I think it would be cool if apple could partner up with some automobile companies. Would be cool if all new cars came with a built in HD. You could bring your ipod into your car and just wireless transfew songs onto your cars HD. This would ellimate the need for cd's or players. like 500 gig HD built in or something like that. the ability to put a few hundred thousand songs into your cars internal memory i don't think is a bad idea. and if apple partnered with a company like mercede's or some high end company first, maybe it would catch on to the low end companies. the could innovate a brand new technology that could change every person who drives a cars lives. of course it would be nice to have voice recognition, and a remote. I saw this special on voice recognition technology in cars. Was really impressive. I think it could be done alot sooner than people think.

[swissmann]

Apple better hurry up with the updates and make sure that they are plentiful. Fairly often an article will pop up saying something about an iPod killer and list the advantages it has over the iPod. I know the interface isn't as elegant, etc. But people will buy them anyway. The iPod was so successful in my mind because it was way ahead of it's time and its form. The form still rocks but it doesn't seem to be way ahead of its time anymore. Update it so that it will be. I personally won't buy one until it is a lot more like a Pocket PC or it has at least 4 GB of storage and is less than $100. (I know I'll be waiting a while.)

[minstryoffunk]

do you think it took nearly 10 years for GameBoy to go colour? Game Gear, Atari Lynx - they were all much better technically but no-one wanted them because they only had an hour of battery life.

but GameBoy has gone colour and the battery size has gone down (4 to 2). the technology is here, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue

[ericdano]

The current Bluetooth standard isn't quite up to doing the job well, but that doesn't mean it will always be that way of course.


Did we forget about Apple getting Wireless Firewire off the ground? That would blow bluetooth away

[cgc]

Isn't "good looks" reason enough to add color screens? If a average consumer goes in a store and sees a color screen, I'm sure that person will be more impressed than a black & white screen. Apple is likely to add more built-in games in the future. Might as well make them color games. Maybe the iPod can display album covers as it plays music.

I don't think it will drain the battery as much as you fear. The only thing that might bother an average consumer is the added price. But if Apple can find a cheap, reliable vendor, I'd say go for it.

No, good looks is not reason enough to justify the price increase. Like a previous poster said it would lower the already unimpressive battery life. If features for the sake of features were the only aspect of selling iPods, add a bottle opener, GPS, WWVB sync, solar powering, electic motor, etc, etc.

[voodoofish]

Isn't "good looks" reason enough to add color screens? If a average consumer goes in a store and sees a color screen, I'm sure that person will be more impressed than a black & white screen. Apple is likely to add more built-in games in the future. Might as well make them color games. Maybe the iPod can display album covers as it plays music.

I don't think it will drain the battery as much as you fear. The only thing that might bother an average consumer is the added price. But if Apple can find a cheap, reliable vendor, I'd say go for it.

I don't actually like the way colour screens look, the pixels are more obvious than with black and white screens, and if they put the menu system in colour is would look tacky.

[JFreak]

i'd be happy if the four buttons of the third generation ipods went away. regular ipod size with mini ipod controls, that's the way to go.

and please, no colour screen until it can be done right. anyone had a first generation colour screen cell phone (a sonyericsson t68i for example)? the display is so dark it can only be read in a dark room, and the display response is so slow you need to be really patient to not throw it to the wall every day.

i'd be glad if the ipod were able to STORE iphoto library. isync could take a backup of it on the fly, at the same time it synchronizes the rest of the data. that would be huge for the people like me who only have a digital camera and store the ORIGINAL photos as files on a hard drive. no negatives, and if the hard drive dies, bye bye photos.

i don't want a video out for the ipod. it's one more connector and would make the beauty uglier. for the same reason i don't want an analog audio input. that (the looks), and because ipods stands for all-digital lifestyle and i would be dissatisfied if the ipod had analog audio input. or analog fm radio - i hope if ipod ever has a radio it would be the new digital version.

[Penman]

I've never been an advocate for a device "that does everything". The iPod is primarily a music player - that's its purpose, and so it does that very well. People get one so they can escape and listen to their favourite tunes on the move, maybe while doing something else. As soon as you add more and more things it becomes a jack of all trades and a master of none.

For instance, the all-in-one set-top-box has never really happened. And prior to PS2 and Xbox release, everyone was talking about how people were going to do their knitting on a PS2. In reality, some people watch the odd DVD on them but most just play games. And most people have a better quality, dedicated DVD player so they watch movies on that instead of the PS2.

I like Nintendo's philosophy, and it's similar to Apples. The GameCube was designed just for games. It may not be the number one console, but it certainly does what it says it does very well. Just like the iPod is in its chosen field.

Another example is my phone. My one can make calls and I like it because it's small. I don't care for playing games on it because I have a Game Boy for that. The Game Boy is infinitely better at playing games than the best phones so I can use that. And my phone is smaller and has more battery life because of it. After all, I don't want to play games absolutely wherever I go so I don't need to take it everywhere on my phone.

If the iPod had all these new complicated features, a colour screen, and had an in-built DVD player it would have to be bigger. This would then compromise its ability to be a small and best-of-field music player (including less battery life). Most of the time you don't want to watch a movie - and, as Jobs said himself, there's no substitute to headphones with video - you're stuck with a tiny and low quality screen.

Therefore I don't expect the new iPods to be very different to the current. Maybe video out capabilities (why not?), and maybe a face redesign (similar to the iPod mini and ironically the 2nd generation iPod) and higher capacities. As soon as you start putting on touch screens and stylus pens or colour monitors and flash card sockets, it becomes one of those useless jack of all trades but master of none things and suddenly you've lost the reason to own an iPod in the first place. Remember, escapism.

Er... good point(s) but Nintendo are being eaten alive by Sony and Microsoft. They are no longer the company to follow.

To your earlier point - they took a long time with the GameBoy color because of price. Apple's not in that boat.

Currently Apple have the most expensive player with the worst battery life (overall in real terms). They are more successful than they truly deserve in the US because most people are ignorant of other options (for now - wait until Sony start marketing). You could argue the iPod's the best solution ergonomically.

I want a 4G now but Apple CAN increase battery life AND include a color screen. Many others have done so and Apple has the budget. They're just slow - it's silly to pretend that the iPod's battery life and limitations are imposed by technological constraints. Many other manufacturers are proving that's not true right now.

Come on Apple don't convince, compete!

[rmac1979]

I agree with the people saying that there should be a compact flash input....on at least one of the iPods. It really would sell a lot of people; digital cameras have really taken off over the past year or two.

Does anyone remember the patent Apple got (or applied for, can't remember) for a portable device that had a screen whose orientation could be changed? Seems that this would mean a 4:3, 3:2 or maybe even 16:10 (assuming video playback) ratio. Could be great for viewing photos. Would also make use of the added room needed for a compact flash reader (assuming it would make the iPod a little longer).

Being able to put longer text files on the iPod as well as a more elegant way from Apple to do so would be great. Maybe let it handle XHTML (alredy handles a basic XML format). There's a lot of great free material on Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.net/) that would be great to read on a slightly larger screen. Has anyone tried this on the current iPods? There is supposed to be size limitations, but apparently some have gotten around them. I'd love to sit back to read a good book and put on my soundtrack playlist anywhere I am....

[Maxx Power]

Not getting an iPod or anything from apple again until apple clears up their act.

this is what i said to the people at http://www.tellonapple.org/, they are mostly previous apple retailers who are sick and tired of being stifled and stiffed by apple.

"I found your website through a link from www.hardocp.com, and i can't agree with you more on the fact that Apple is doing inmoral and unethical business conducts. I have an interesting story to share with you, which I also shared with Perry Longinotti, a journalist for www.theinquirer.net who recently wrote an article on apple product quality. He agreed with me on my findings and said he has plenty more "evidence" and people to support my claims if he decides to do an article on my topic.

My particular experience is this, I purchased an iPod 2nd generation 10 gigabyte about a year back. And recently, it has, in the midst of operating, stopped to communicate with the computer, Mac or PC. I've tried all methods of diagnosis, forcing it to firewire mode, nothing works. So, i went in search of Apple repairs, only to find out that to repair an iPod, disregarding what the problem is, would cost 350+ dollars Canadian, and you can see this straight from their website under support section for iPod. That is 50 dollars shy of the new 15 GB iPods!! How inefficient does a company have to be if the repair charges are as high as the retail price of an object ? And good luck replacing those internal batteries, because if you opt to have Apple replace them, it's 100 dollars US, plus shipping. Other websites are selling these batteries new for less than half the price, provided you know how to connect two sockets. I won't accept that Apple stiffs customers like this, because they monopolize in the iPod business and Mac OS X operating computers, they can charge you an arm and a leg to have your machine fixed, what else can you do ? I know corporations are inmoral, unethical externalizing machines built to milk everyone of their money and not be responsible for any of their actions since the corporate citizen is entitled to much more than what real citizens are entitled to under law. But if you purchased a Ford vehicle, and everytime you had to get an oil change, new filters, engine repairs, new tires or replace the windshield, you need to go back to Ford, and that they charge as much as a new vehicle would cost, or tells you to get an entirely new car, they Will not sell another vehicle. And imagine that everytime there was a firmware upgrade to your vehicle, you had to pay 129 dollars US for it. That is just outrageous. Just to put this in perspective, Apple is trying everything it can to become a monopoly and even before they captured 5 percent of the market, they are starting to bully people around. They recently patented the iPod "interface", so that no one can design something in anyway similar. What's next ? Patent the keyboard system ? How about the numeric phone dial pad on every phone ? How far does a corporation like Apple have to go to make a profit, and how much profit ? Isn't that private jet Steve Jobs owns which is worth millions if not billions enough ?!

TellOnApple, I like to see Apple learn from its mistakes and ressurect itself from the prickly cactus image of itself into a shiny apple again."

and they replied:
"
wow!

Really nicely put. I remember when the iPod was announced, I looked at the battery situation on it from the eyes of an experienced Apple Laptop user. They say 10 hours, we know that generally means 5 hours. After use that means 2 hours or less. I called Apple to get pricing on replacing the batteries and they quoted me $270. I simply could not believe paying $500 for a unit and then getting charged $270 for a battery. Completely ridiculous. Monopolistic is being kind. They can overprice products so they are not worth fixing, they can sell you extended contracts they consistently fail to properly enter or not enter at all.

I don't know what I can do to help you, but am always willing to try. After all the years I have spent on hold helping customers of MACadam/Apple Computer, I'm not going to stop now.


Thanks again for your note


Tom Santos "

[greg75]

In any case, the PortalPlayer chip already does plenty that the iPod doesn't support--like WMA (and Ogg Vorbis?) playback and CD burning.
Incorrect. The PortalPlayer chip doesn't support any particular format. It has no hardware decoding of audio formats. Decoding is done in software.

[mfacey]

First off, I wish people would stop contemplating an Apple PDA. PDA's are dead. Smart-phones are the future. Why would you buy a PDA that can do everything except for calling when you can buy a smart phone that can do absolutely EVERYTHING. Then we come to the point that Apple doesn't know how to make phones, so they won't do that. Even Sony couldn't do it, so they merged with Ericsson so they could still keep their names on the phones.
So unless Apple is going to take a major risk by stepping into a highly saturated and matured market it ain't gonna happen.

Another thing, why are so many people saying that apple is making such huge mistakes doing business? Are these the same experts that said the ipod mini was WAY too expensive and would never sell? Apple isn't stupid. Nuff said.

I really don't know what apple will do with the 4G ipod, but I'm sure of one thing: it'll be better than ever, because that is what apple is best at.

[BrianKonarsMac]

Frankly, I'd be happy if they just dropped the prices on the 3rd gen iPods (and the iPod mini) $50 across the board and called it a day, so I could stop taking flak for being a "rich bitch" every time I suggest the iPod to someone.

Argh.

--Cless
agreed, i hate the looks i get from some people down in the city, obviously disgusted with how much i've spent on computer gadgets. but im a nerd :D.

[elo]

My view may be contrarian here, but I believe I'm right:

The iPod has been a huge hit not only because it was first to market, but because it had a single purpose and did it really well. To the extent that Apple has subsequently added features, it has done so in a way that doesn't detract from the device's simplicity and elegance. That's why the iPod is viewed as a great device for people who love music, and other competing devices are largely viewed as geek toys.

The success of the iPod mini has shown further that people want something that sounds great, feels good in their hand, and operates without fuss. As soon as you start adding too much extra stuff, the iPod becomes something else.

A compact flash slot should be completely out of the question. A slot that large, even if it could be added without increasing the size of the unit, would be contrary to the device's aesthetic. If you want that, buy a geek toy, not an iPod. A built-in microphone would come closer, but would only be useful for those that wanted low-fidelity recordings (e.g. of lectures). A better choice, and one that retains the iPod's aesthetic, is a simple line in. That way, those who wanted to could plug a high quality microphone in and record, possibly as AAC or Lossless files. (That would be consistent with the article.) Others could still use a tiny attachment if all they wanted was a lo-fi voice recording. An output for photographs or stored video is also possible, but this could be done via the dock connector and appropriate cables.

Expect an aluminium body and a click wheel, per the mini. A rechargable battery is also possible, as long as Apple feels that it can do it without messing up the back of the device with seams. Any feature that fundamentally shifts the device's focus or disturbs its minimalist aesthetic simply will not be present.

And people will buy them like hotcakes. Comparison with the Sony Playstation Portable is silly. The device is *much* larger and heavier than the iPod and practically screams geek. People (that is, the people who would be caught dead with such a thing) will use it for some of their tunes, of course, but it will not become the stand-alone music player of choice among the crowd that would consider an iPod. In short, the PSP plays to a demographic with limited overlap to the iPod's.

Apple knows what it's doing.

elo

[Xenious]

There is no practial use of color screens, aside from photo viewing. Movies would take too much battery. and the resolution would be too poor fro photos. if the battery life is eight hours now, it would be three with the color screen. If battery life is a strong issue now, think of a 4 hour battery! :mad: NO SALES! I say, go with better encoding!!:D
~Nate13

Not that is _useful_ per say, but I want a color screen that shows the album cover in color. :) What better encoding do we need? Are you wanting to use the ipod as an mp3 rip-er?

Besides album art display I can't think of anything that the iPod really needs. A line out on the ipod itself might be nice (so I don't need a dock to plug into a stereo). Maybe something to improve the sound some. Custom multi band EQ settings. That's all I can think of offhand.
-jim

[JGowan]

... I'd be happy if they dropped the prices ... so I could stop taking flak for being a "rich bitch"Tell them to save up for the IPOD. Not everyone just opens their wallet and buys stuff. Lots of things need to be saved for. "Some things are worth waiting for."

[SWC]

One thing I would love to see is some kind of wireless rendezvous support. So if im at a buddys house who doesnt have firewire or whatnot and has a wireless network setup itunes will pickup the ipod and let me play the songs I have. Or when im at work I can wirelessly stream my music through my mac since we arent allowed to copy the music files to it plug in external devices.

[Lepton]

Use an OLED display. Full color, needs no backlight thus lower power than a display with one, and most important, extremely thin.

Add home on iPod. Place your entire home directory on an iPod to make it portable. In particular, your music, photos, and movies are now on your iPod. Plug the iPod into a computer with FireWire and all your stuff is availabel on that computer.

Add software so you can plug the FireWire into a CAMCORDER. You can now record from the camera onto the iPod, play a camcorder tape into the iPod for archiving, play DV video on the iPod into the camcorder to move it to tape.

Add software to let you preview this DV video that's in the iPod on the iPod display.

Add software to decode MPEG4 and possibly other QuickTime encoded video so all the videos on your home Movies folder can play on the iPod screen, or into a camcorder.

Add video out hardware so in addition to plugging iPod to a camcorder, you can plug it to a TV set. Now you can play videos on the iPod on any TV.

Add software to display the imaged in your home Pictures folder on the iPod screen. Add software to show slideshows of these pictures. Now you can play picture slideshows on TV, onto a camcorder tape, or on the iPod screen.

Add software to display album covers art on the iPod screen or TV.

Add audio in for a microphone or analog stereo audio.

NOW you have a very nice pocket media center. And this all will not take a large amount of extra hardware, space, or cost, and no big inventions required. This is the way I see iPod going. Soon.

[SWC]

Use an OLED display. Full color, needs no backlight thus lower power than a display with one, and most important, extremely thin.

Add home on iPod. Place your entire home directory on an iPod to make it portable. In particular, your music, photos, and movies are now on your iPod. Plug the iPod into a computer with FireWire and all your stuff is availabel on that computer.

Add software so you can plug the FireWire into a CAMCORDER. You can now record from the camera onto the iPod, play a camcorder tape into the iPod for archiving, play DV video on the iPod into the camcorder to move it to tape.

Add software to let you preview this DV video that's in the iPod on the iPod display.

Add software to decode MPEG4 and possibly other QuickTime encoded video so all the videos on your home Movies folder can play on the iPod screen, or into a camcorder.

Add video out hardware so in addition to plugging iPod to a camcorder, you can plug it to a TV set. Now you can play videos on the iPod on any TV.

Add software to display the imaged in your home Pictures folder on the iPod screen. Add software to show slideshows of these pictures. Now you can play picture slideshows on TV, onto a camcorder tape, or on the iPod screen.

Add software to display album covers art on the iPod screen or TV.

Add audio in for a microphone or analog stereo audio.

NOW you have a very nice pocket media center. And this all will not take a large amount of extra hardware, space, or cost, and no big inventions required. This is the way I see iPod going. Soon.

recording dv footage to an ipod will not happen anytime soon as it takes 10 gigs of space for 45 minutes of dv footage so for an hour and a half of footage shot youd waste half of the current 40 gig model, I would much rather spend $4 on a tape for an hour and have a backup of it if my computer exer crashes.

[tny]

My iPod is a year old. I've already used it for 2 hours on this charge, and there's at least 3 hours left. There's plenty of "unethical" talk here, but no comparisons. How much do they charge for replacing the battery on the Archos, for instance?

[nsb3000]

Are we getting a step closer to color LCD displays?
PDA's went colour, mobile phones went colour, it's about time the ipod went colour.

I think the ipod will go color someday, but not for a couple of years, until battery life has been increased to the point of being a non-issue. It would be useful, for example to see album artwork, but it is really just a gimmicky feature. Of course most of the new features being proposed are pretty gimmicky.

Baring some blow-your-socks-off new feature (which I would not put past apple), the main thinks apple can do to make the ipod are:

-Make it smaller
-Make its hard-drive larger
-make it cheaper
-Make its battery last longer

These are the main bread and butter features, and everything else is just icing.

[nsb3000]

The current Bluetooth standard isn't quite up to doing the job well, but that doesn't mean it will always be that way of course.

A dock in the car works out really well for now, especially since it handles the all-important charging. But what I'd really like to see (and I know this is wishful thinking, given audio manufacturers' addiction to proprietary interfaces) is some kind of universal connector with remote control and power that would let you plug in anyone's portable audio thingy into the front of your home or car stereo.

Ya, that would be great, but it is never going to happen, thanks to the nature of capitalism!

[dongmin]

Incorrect. The PortalPlayer chip doesn't support any particular format. It has no hardware decoding of audio formats. Decoding is done in software. you're splitting hairs there. portalplayer is more than just a single chip. it's a platform and includes the hardware, firmware, and software. sure there is no dedicated decoder chip. but yes, this 'platform' does support decoding and encoding of various audio formats.

for reference: http://www.amd.com/us-en/FlashMemory/FlashApplications/0,,37_1736_6577_8011,00.html

edit: BTW, for all those clamoring for better photo features, portalplayer supports transfer of images from digital cameras through USB 2.0, so in theory, all Apple needs to do is add a USB 2 port to import images directly from the camera to the iPod. No need to hassle with Flash cards or Flash readers.

[cbstottle]

This is what I would like to see. Like Lepton above.
1. iCam that has a color screen and lens that saves the video on the iPod
2. iCam has a battery to run itself and keep the iPod running
3. Dump video from iPod to iMovie at hard drive speed (big savings in time)
I don’t care if the iPod can show the movie, that’s why we edit in iMovie and burn DVDs. Apple should also allow for burning a DVD that can be easily reloaded into iMovie later. Here is a link to my concept. Don’t store your movies on the iPod, just shot them on it and move them to the Mac for editing. This will get the PC folks wanting a Mac. This is not the iSight. http://www.spymac.com/gallery/show_photo.php?picid=133026

[duffyb]

I will buy an iPod the day I can attach a mic and record live music. So far, only the iRiver and Archos Jukebox do this. Well, so does the Sony MD but as far a Mac support....forget it.

[bertagert]

Lets get some facts straight.

1. The ipod is a music player. Why in the world do you think it should play movies or view photos? That's like asking your TV to play music. (Yes I know in a round about way this can happen but a TV is for watching movies/tv.) I don't hear anyone asking the walkman to doing anything besides playing music. Why harp on the ipod to do more.

A color screen. My ipod has a hint of blue to it. Isn't that considered color? What do you really look at your screen for? You only look at it for an instant to find your song and hit play. Do you really think having a little pink, red and green will make shuffling your songs that more enjoyable? Again, viewing photos, other than sitting on a plane with nothing else to do, would be pointless.

2. The pda thing. Yes, it would be cool to add a phone number when your out and about. However, this would require a stylus for input. Where does this stylus get stored? It would only make the ipod bigger. Kind of a bummer but its the way it is.

3. As for the 4g ipod. The only thing I can positively say (and I do not have links, etc.) is that the scroll wheel and buttons will be exactly like the ipod mini's. They may also consider making it out of aluminum as well. This would loose the classic ipod look but give people more options.

The home directory on the ipod would also be sweet. The only thing that concerns me is if the ipod was lost or stolen. How easy would it be for someone to access my important files? Also, I would need the rest of the world to buy a Mac so I could hook up anywhere, anytime. I guess this is why I have a powerbook now.

[Quarkie]

And people will buy them like hotcakes. Comparison with the Sony Playstation Portable is silly. The device is *much* larger and heavier than the iPod and practically screams geek. People (that is, the people who would be caught dead with such a thing) will use it for some of their tunes, of course, but it will not become the stand-alone music player of choice among the crowd that would consider an iPod. In short, the PSP plays to a demographic with limited overlap to the iPod's.

Apple knows what it's doing.

elo - I think you might be missing the point. The comparison with PSP was just to illustrate that, even with a converged device, Apple's "leading marketshare position" is going to evaporate virtually overnight once a larger player like Sony takes action. Apple does not and will not own the standard in the face of that kind of competition, no matter what they think.

In addition to the PSP, Sony (and others) will obviously have dedicated devices, which will be "good enough" copies of the iPod, and they also have the media, technology, and distribution channels to get them in the hands of consumers in volume and on time. By comparison, Apple is weak in all those categories and the stand-alone devices will be sold in even greater numbers, further eroding Apple's position.

However, looking further at PSP in terms of a viable, converged device, when it comes to average consumer shopping dollars for the holiday shopping season, parents aren't going to buy a $300 iPod for their kids who want both video games and music. If you were a parent, which way would you allocate your hard-earned income? It's one or the other and the iPod pricing is so far out of whack, it's comical. Apple needs to make a $50 consumer unit, or maybe even a free unit with an iTMS service contract. Kids and parents don't seem to have problems with cell phone contracts. Why shouldn't there be one for music too?

But, that's another good point. What happens with converged mp3/cell phones and kids? I have an mp3 phone. iPod? Bah! I wonder who will recruit cell phone manufacturers to provide music on a subscription basis? Too bad Apple hasn't had the forethought to license AAC to Nokia, or any of the other major phone manufacturers.

Whoever makes their audio standard the most available (open or via license) in any preferred device incarnation will get support from the low-cost, me-too digital audio player clones/devices/bolt-ons, further entrenching that company's standard in the market and generating additional traffic and revenue.

Will Apple license AAC? errmmm...let me check The Magic A-Ball ... "Blinded By Shiny iPod Case - Check Again Later."

Quite honestly, Apple has no idea what they're doing, and in 1-2 years, if they continue to adopt such an exclusive, non-consumer-oriented, small-thinking, niche-leading posture, you'll see why. It won't be a world using iPods, iTMS, and Apple's audio standards. The world will use the technology that a more adept, business-savvy, licensing-aware company can deliver as a targeted consumer commodity, no matter how "cool" the iPod may be.

And, that will be sad.

[Quarkie]

duffyb: Griffin makes iTalk (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/italk)

Not exactly what you're talking about...but...

I had the demo - it's kind of an interesting voice recorder product, and probably something that should be built-in.

[bertagert]

elo - I think you might be missing the point. The comparison with PSP was just to illustrate that, even with a converged device, Apple's "leading marketshare position" is going to evaporate virtually overnight once a larger player like Sony takes action. Apple does not and will not own the standard in the face of that kind of competition, no matter what they think.
Quark, you're definitley wrong here. Sony has had ever chance in the world to do this already. Their mini disk player hasn't panned out.
However, looking further at PSP in terms of a viable, converged device, when it comes to average consumer shopping dollars for the holiday shopping season, parents aren't going to buy a $300 iPod for their kids who want both video games and music. If you were a parent, which way would you allocate your hard-earned income? It's one or the other and the iPod pricing is so far out of whack, it's comical. Apple needs to make a $50 consumer unit, or maybe even a free unit with an iTMS service contract.
So, the ipod is out of whack but its ok to buy a $200 video game player and then spend $50+ a month on video games? Not to mention, once the game has been completed, it's rarely ever played again. At least music will be listened to for a very, very long time. Sounds like the video game player is the one that's whacked.
Whoever makes their audio standard the most available (open or via license) in any preferred device incarnation will get support from the low-cost, me-too digital audio player clones/devices/bolt-ons, further entrenching that company's standard in the market and generating additional traffic and revenue.
Let me get this straight. Apple is the one doing wrong here? Sony. MS and Apple are the players. All of them want to own the audio format for the future. MS isn't in the hardware biz so their plan is to get everyone to use there coding so they become the "standard". Do you really want MS decideing how you're going to play your music?
Quite honestly, Apple has no idea what they're doing, and in 1-2 years, if they continue to adopt such an exclusive, non-consumer-oriented, small-thinking, niche-leading posture, you'll see why. It won't be a world using iPods, iTMS, and Apple's audio standards. The world will use the technology that a more adept, business-savvy, licensing-aware company can deliver as a targeted consumer commodity, no matter how "cool" the iPod may be.If need be, Apple could easily have the ipod play WMA songs and sell them on itunes. Apple just doesn't want MS to control the audio format of the future.

[Quarkie]

bertagert: I guess we'll see. :) I'll come back and find this thread again in a year or so and cop to my errors, if need be. ;)

Also, my prediction for the standards-winners are, although 1 & 2 are a tough call:

1. Sony
2. Microsoft
3. Apple

Apple will most likely never own it, and I don't mind if MS wins. However, it's Apple's to lose at the moment, and that's the way they're headed with non-strategic thinking.

[bertagert]

bertagert: I guess we'll see. :) I'll come back and find this thread again in a year or so and cop to my errors, if need be. ;)
Apple will most likely never own it, and I don't mind if MS wins. However, it's Apple's to lose at the moment, and that's the way they're headed with non-strategic thinking.

Quarkie,

Yeah, we could argue this to death but in the end, its Apple and MS that will decide the final outcome. Apple obviously has a plan in place to make this happen. Who knows if it will be the right choice. Same goes for MS. Personally, I don't think Sony has a chance right now by using their own format. Too late to the game. Yes, MS will probably win eventually. This actually sucks as there shouldn't be a winner at all. A company shouldn't have the say in what, where, and how we listen to music, or video for that matter (this includes Apple).

Funny thing is, I brought this topic up a long time ago and no one believed me that the whole ipod/itunes/DRM thing was really a war against MS and Apple.

I think Apple has a very good shot at it as they are the leader. Ever since the ipod became popular, people have been giving the speech about how the ipod will die and other makers will win out. Apple/ipod have only been getting stronger and stronger though.

[SWC]

Let me get this straight. Apple is the one doing wrong here? Sony. MS and Apple are the players. All of them want to own the audio format for the future. MS isn't in the hardware biz so their plan is to get everyone to use there coding so they become the "standard". Do you really want MS decideing how you're going to play your music?

I don't really want MS or Apple to decide how im going to play my music. At this point in the game its fair to say that apple is more controlling than MS is with WMA in scope of compatible products. With WMA downloads I can put them on pretty much every mp3 player made with few exceptions (ipod being one of them) I don't use WMA or AAC I stick with MP3 just because I dont want a bunch of different formats of music on my computer.

[tacomancini]

The new form factor will have to stay the same, minimal, but the firewire port on the bottom will allow more things to happen.
I just don't understand why they have yet to enable uncompressed 16 bit 44.1 audio recording through something connected to the dock. The 3g ipod supports this already, there is an analog audio in and out on the firwire port. There were rumors before regarding a super dock with rca ins and outs to enable this recording. I emailed griffin technology as to why they hadn't made something like this yet, and they replied that it was definitely limited by the software. I would assume that this is all to appease the record companies during this age of itunes.
Audio recording is all I really want from my ipod, well recording dv straight to ipod would be awesome too because capturing dv sucks, but I'm not holding my breath.
OLED screens may be the clinchers for a color ipod, album art would definitely be cool, as well as visualizers, slide shows with music. There was also that patent that was for devices that changed their color perhaps in sync with audio, but the 4g will probably be aluminum.... or carbon fiber.

[nate13]

Not that is _useful_ per say, but I want a color screen that shows the album cover in color. :) What better encoding do we need? Are you wanting to use the ipod as an mp3 rip-er?

Besides album art display I can't think of anything that the iPod really needs. A line out on the ipod itself might be nice (so I don't need a dock to plug into a stereo). Maybe something to improve the sound some. Custom multi band EQ settings. That's all I can think of offhand.
-jim
I agree that it would be nice and snazzy, but the negative effect would be remarkably high. Plus, how many people actually care about album art that is under two inches small? leave the pictures and movies until a better battery comes out. I think it would also KILL apples market share, because people like a mP3 player that is simple yet elegant, not something that has so many features built in that it kills the idea. Leave movies and pics to the Apple pda or different hardware product, and keep the iPod simple until we can afford the risk. ;)

[nate13]

Isn't "good looks" reason enough to add color screens? If a average consumer goes in a store and sees a color screen, I'm sure that person will be more impressed than a black & white screen. Apple is likely to add more built-in games in the future. Might as well make them color games. Maybe the iPod can display album covers as it plays music.

I don't think it will drain the battery as much as you fear. The only thing that might bother an average consumer is the added price. But if Apple can find a cheap, reliable vendor, I'd say go for it.

Well, maybe, maybe not. The price issue is huge though, because the population who are considering an iPod are looking to save money. The game thing is a good idea, but is the iPod a gaming counsel? And unless you add a gaming pad, i don't see how you could play a game. Plus, it would be limited without a video card and more ram for playing games and music at the same time. Impressions are a big thing, but not all first impressions are the whole story. :o
~Nate13

[AoWolf]

(Too lazy to read all posts sorry if some one said anything on this.)

Some thing I that must be considered is the PSP and Nintendo DS. As it stands they will both have Wifi and color screens. The Nintendo will have a chat system (perhaps AIM) and the sony a DVD/music player. Both can hold at least one gig on the media they use. The nintendo will even have a stylus and color screen. Not to mention the $200 price $50 less then a mini! A lot of kids get their parents to buy them ipods but why not get a sony that can play DVDs go online to talk with your friends. I think if apple is going to have to do something to discourage people from picking these kind of devices over the iPod.

[bertagert]

A lot of kids get their parents to buy them ipods but why not get a sony that can play DVDs go online to talk with your friends.
Becuase the ipod/min can fit on your pocket. A stylus would get lost when trying to jog/workout with it. The ipod isn't the size of a brick. People do other things when listening to music. You can't do these things while trying to watch a movie. You can talk to your friends on a cell phone. Ipod = music player. Stop all the talk video and games. It is not what the ipod is about!

[AoWolf]

Becuase the ipod/min can fit on your pocket. A stylus would get lost when trying to jog/workout with it. The ipod isn't the size of a brick. People do other things when listening to music. You can't do these things while trying to watch a movie. You can talk to your friends on a cell phone. Ipod = music player. Stop all the talk video and games. It is not what the ipod is about!

Oh I fully understand(love to make fun of my friends creative) that but I am not looking at this from a practical angle. The average person is going to go with the the device that can do more at a lower price...

[gensor]

SoniqCast’sElement Aireo MP3 player with built-in WiFi >


Related entries: Portable Audio




It sounds like we’ll be waiting a long, long time (maybe forever) for Apple to go wireless and add AirPort Extreme the iPod, but CNET has a review of the first and only MP3 player (so far) to come with built-in WiFi, the Element Aireo from SoniqCast. We’re not convinced that just being able to cut the cord is worth its $300 price tag or the fact that it only has a puny 1.5GB of storage (though this might actually be an advantage once you realize how long it’d take to transfer 20GB music over an 802.11b), but SoniqCast is promising a software upgrade for the Aireo that’ll let users wirelessly swap tunes with each other, which is something we’ve wanted to see for a long time.

http://reviews.cnet.com/SoniqCast_Element_Aireo__1_5GB_/4505-6490_7-30790880.html?tag=pdtl-list


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[Tom800]

They could surely add a 'virtual' mobile phone pad into the software, which could be toggled up while editing contacts or calendar items and used in the mode of text-messaging's ability to guess the words from the first few letters? The 'virtual' phone keys would be only about 12 in total, aranged as on the phone:

1 2 3

4 5 6

7 8 9

* 0 ^

These 'virtual' keys could easily be selected at great speed and accuracy by being scrolled back and fourth through using the present scrollwheel, in exactly the same manner as currently at work in the calender funtion viewed in month mode.

[rainman::|:|]

(Too lazy to read all posts sorry if some one said anything on this.)

Some thing I that must be considered is the PSP and Nintendo DS. As it stands they will both have Wifi and color screens. The Nintendo will have a chat system (perhaps AIM) and the sony a DVD/music player. Both can hold at least one gig on the media they use. The nintendo will even have a stylus and color screen. Not to mention the $200 price $50 less then a mini! A lot of kids get their parents to buy them ipods but why not get a sony that can play DVDs go online to talk with your friends. I think if apple is going to have to do something to discourage people from picking these kind of devices over the iPod.

I think you suffer from the same thing many here do, you can't see the iPod from the perspective of an average consumer, just a techie. But ignoring marketability, there's one thing everyone's missing here, with the talk of "the iPod can go color because other devices have". None of those devices have hard drives in them. Hard drives are much more expandable, obviously the 40GB iPod rather outshines the 1GB Nintendo. When you put a hard drive in with a color screen, even an oled one (and consider that oled has still not come down much in price yet) you're into the realm of subportable computers now, which are powered by much bigger batteries yet yield much lower life. Apple has pushed the limits of their batteries to power the drive, processor and RAM in the iPod with 10hrs battery life (well, etc), putting a color screen on would absolutely smash that. Battery life would be quite poor indeed with most of the modifications you guys are suggesting, not to mention the fact that "ease of use", arguably the most important factor in making technology successful, has been shot to hell.

I also think Apple will try to stick to the iPod white face, probably they intended it to change later but the white iPod and earbuds have really caught on as a recognized symbol... Apple would do well to hold onto that image for a couple more years. Then, in about late 2006, they should release something insanely great to bolster interest in the iPod, which will probably be losing it's luster at that point.

Personally, i'd like Apple to master cold-fusion and incorporate that into the iPod, so that it could be recharged on a yearly basis... I could sell excess electricity to California ;)

paul

[Santaduck]

this is good news... the ipod needs an ADC that can handle clipping better.

[JOD8FY]

I would love to see a *nice* built in voice recorder and a longer battery life in the iPod. Do you think that we'll reach 50GB? I wouldn't mind a color screen, but it really makes no difference to me. I'm planning on getting an iPod soon, when do you think that these will come out?

Cheers,
JOD8FY

[puckhead193]

I don't think a color screen is neccessary but nice...I have a 30 gig...and i will be really annoyed at WWDC he anounces new ipods. I would like him to annouce 3 GHZ G-5's.....I don't think they need new ones. Maybe make them cheaper because people say "bad things" that i have the most expensive ipod. If they do add a color screen i would like it to be able to turn off to save battery life. I would hope that it would have games in color

[Tenacious B]

duffyb: Griffin makes iTalk (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/italk)

Not exactly what you're talking about...but...

I had the demo - it's kind of an interesting voice recorder product, and probably something that should be built-in.

What Quarkie was referring to was the ability to record something in high quality stereo. I really wish that something would finally be released that could be able to record high quality stereo on current iPods. Griffin (and Belkin as well, I think) have released mono recorders for voice reminders (of which I have no idea what quality they produce). The microphone doesn't need to be included-I just want an 1/8 inch stereo jack in the recording attachment for microphones like the Sony MD recorders have. I really want to replace my MD recorder so that I don't have to use it as a middleman whenever I want to record something on the go.

[~Shard~]

Personally, i'd like Apple to master cold-fusion and incorporate that into the iPod, so that it could be recharged on a yearly basis... I could sell excess electricity to California ;)

paul

Can I go into business with you when you do? Sign me up bud... :cool:

[iGuy]

There is no practial use of color screens, aside from photo viewing. Movies would take too much battery. and the resolution would be too poor fro photos. if the battery life is eight hours now, it would be three with the color screen. If battery life is a strong issue now, think of a 4 hour battery! :mad: NO SALES! I say, go with better encoding!!:D
~Nate13

I'm sure it must have been said by the time I'm writing this but a colour display is very much a useful and practical upgrade even if it doesn't support video or photos.

Not everyone who wants to use a portable music player is in their teens or twenties. I'm 41 and I want an iPod. I also needed reading glasses for the first time this year.

When I compare my Tungsten to my Palm V, and my T720 to earlier phones I've owned, the increased readability of a colour, high resolution display becomes obvious.

If you don't thinks so, just wait. :)

~iGuy

[outerspaceapple]

Just my 2 cents,
I bought a first, second, and third generation newton when then came out, and i STILL use the 3rd gen one today! talk about being way ahead of its time! I still find it extremely useful, and a much better alternative than a palm pilot, or similar.

If Apple were to introduce a newton like feature on the 4th gen iPods, i'd snatch one up in a heartbeat.


~~Eddy~~

[Quarkie]

1Gb actually holds an OK amount of music. Assuming average compression factors of about 1Mb/min. and 45min/CD, that's at least 20 CD's worth of favorite tracks or 16+ hrs. of continuous listening. Not too bad for a kid tooling around town. How much is enough for a consumer product?

I heard that Apple is working on an 200Gb drive version, which they are calling "The Ladies Man iPod," and it even comes with a button which expands the iPod into a musically encyclopedic waterbed, complete with nightstand and courvoisier, ready for red hot lovin'. For the Apple engineers, this was the ultimate feat of compression, but they are still having trouble with battery life to power the waterbed's heater, sonic stimulator, and surround-sound speakers. In addition, development has been severely hampered due to excess product testing in conjunction with several hired contractors, including "Veronica," "Mitzi," and someone called "Pantomime Horse."

[JFreak]

Maybe something to improve the sound some. Custom multi band EQ settings. That's all I can think of offhand.

best sound improvement is to buy better earphones - take a look at shure E-serie for example.

[duffyb]

Why are we talking about video games, PDA's and color screens? THE POST REFERES TO RECORDING CAPABILITIES! Can we stick to the topic?

Apple needs to make an iPod with a jack that allows one to plug in a pre-amped stereo mic to record live music. Only a few do that now (iRiver, Archos)

Of course, by live music I mean my friends grarage band. Do you think Apple would get pressure from the RIAA if it feels the iPod would open up a whole new bootleg market? Would Apple cave?

[greg75]

you're splitting hairs there
You obviously missed the point of my post, which was to debunk the myth that Apple can't add Vorbis support because the chip doesn't support it.

[neonart]

Why are we talking about video games, PDA's and color screens? THE POST REFERES TO RECORDING CAPABILITIES! Can we stick to the topic?

Apple needs to make an iPod with a jack that allows one to plug in a pre-amped stereo mic to record live music. Only a few do that now (iRiver, Archos)

Of course, by live music I mean my friends grarage band. Do you think Apple would get pressure from the RIAA if it feels the iPod would open up a whole new bootleg market? Would Apple cave?

I may be wrong, but I don't see this feature as a huge deal for most people. I know there are those who would like to record their rehearsals and such, but most of the general public won't really care. It'll be an increase in cost, another hole in the ipod, and the software engineering that goes with it for something that won't attract the majority. Just my opinion though.

As nsb3000 said, the main features most people would be really wowed by are the basics - smaller size, larger HD capacity, cheaper, and longer battery life. And as mentioned before, updated controls would also be a great update.

Everything else falls into the geek-o-rator category which adds bullet-points to the brochure, but does not really help sell iPods.

[Quarkie]

duffy: There have been plenty of portable recording devices produced in the world that are much cheaper and higher volume than the iPod. Why would anyone care what goes into the iPod in the context of trying to prevent live music boot-legging? If the iPod is, some day, capable and caught in a general sweep on concert admittance, for example, that's one thing, but to single it out seems highly implausible. Also, you're going to have a lot of trouble doing stereo recording from a single point in space unless you are using multiple mics or some kind of filtering technology.

What might be fun, however, would be to get 4 or 5 friends all with good, portable monophonic recorders, space yourselves out at a live concert, then recombine the mono channels with a surround mixer after aligning the tracks for that full stadium experience. Or better yet, maybe you could even get some dummy head mics and do binaural stereo recording at each location. Security might find it a little strange that there were several people strolling around with mannequin heads. :)

NEWSFLASH: The RIAA just banned all mannequin heads from rock concerts! :D

[~Shard~]

Why are we talking about video games, PDA's and color screens? THE POST REFERES TO RECORDING CAPABILITIES! Can we stick to the topic?

Um, actually the post is titled "iPod Encoding" not "recording" - big difference. Although audio recording is indeed included in the scope of encoding, encoding can refer to audio and video, and not simply just the recording aspect of things. So perhaps before you start reprimanding people in CAPS for being off-topic you should be a little less quick to judge, and just relax. Normally I wouldn't make a big deal out of this, but due to the unecessary attitude and incorrect nature of your statement, I thought it was warranted. :cool:

In general, I too think that the majority of consumers would prefer to see updates to the iPod "basics" - smaller size, larger hard drives, longer battery life, and not necessarily things like encoding capabilities. There will always be a niche market for such specialized features, but for most people, they would never make use of certain functions on their iPod. Now evolve the iPod into something different, perhaps a PDA or the like, with a lot more capabilities, and then it might be a different story. As long as the iPod is still just the iPod though, I don't think too many more bells and whistles are necessary - not that I would complain of course. ;) Adding in more and more features would start detracting from what the iPod is and what makes it popular - simplicity. :cool:

[benixau]

iPod could get TV out through a connector. It can record now - just need the adaptor. Same here. That way you can play your photos on a TV - just like any decent digital camera can. Its not much but a nicety for those who store their photos on their iPod.

[neonart]

iPod could get TV out through a connector. It can record now - just need the adaptor. Same here. That way you can play your photos on a TV - just like any decent digital camera can. Its not much but a nicety for those who store their photos on their iPod.

A dock connector to video (or S-video) is posible. But is this really a feature that will be used? Just doesn't convince me.

[~Shard~]

A dock connector to video (or S-video) is posible. But is this really a feature that will be used? Just doesn't convince me.

I think there are a multitude of features being tossed around that people think would be cool, or would like to see, but you make a good point - will some of these features really be used? And if so, by how many people in the grand scheme of things? I'd be curious to find out how many iPod owners actually use all the extras that currently come with the iPods - contacts, notes, games, alarm clock - I seldom, if ever, use these myself.

[neonart]

...I'd be curious to find out how many iPod owners actually use all the extras that currently come with the iPods - contacts, notes, games, alarm clock - I seldom, if ever, use these myself.

Yup, same here. I use the contacts maybe once or twice a week, and the game (2nd gen) I only use when I'm so bored out of my wits that it's the only thing left to do. I also use the clock on occasion.

But none of these features sold me, or will sell me on a new Pod.

[benixau]

A dock connector to video (or S-video) is posible. But is this really a feature that will be used? Just doesn't convince me.

Not supposed to. It is something that can be done as a third party add-on. If apple were to add this it would help. Maybe the ability to delete photos. The reason for this is it would remove the need for a color screen for photos.