Methodist University Hospital Confirms Steve Jobs Liver Transplant

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/23/methodist-university-hospital-confirms-steve-jobs-liver-transplant/)

Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare today issued a brief press release (http://methodisthealth.org/methodist/About+Us/Newsroom/News/Steve+Jobs+Receives+Liver+Transplant) confirming that Steve Jobs did receive a liver transplant at the Methodist University Hospital Transplant Institute. The release was issued with Jobs' permission several days after The Wall Street Journal reported (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/20/steve-jobs-had-a-liver-transplant-two-months-ago/) that Jobs received the transplant in Tennessee two months ago.

Addressing speculation that Jobs' fame and wealth may have enabled him to gain access to a donor liver ahead of other patients on the waiting list, the release notes that Jobs had qualified on the basis of being the sickest patient of his blood type at the time the donor liver became available.Mr. Jobs underwent a complete transplant evaluation and was listed for transplantation for an approved indication in accordance with the Transplant Institute policies and United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) policies.

He received a liver transplant because he was the patient with the highest MELD score (Model for End-Stage Liver Disease) of his blood type and, therefore, the sickest patient on the waiting list at the time a donor organ became available. Mr. Jobs is now recovering well and has an excellent prognosis.The release also points out that the institute is one of the ten largest liver transplant centers in the United States and has one of the highest patient survival rates in the country, factors which led to Jobs' decision to have the procedure performed there.

Several sources have reported (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/22/steve-jobs-back-at-work-at-apple/) that Jobs returned to work at Apple's Cupertino headquarters yesterday, although rumors suggest that he may limit himself to a part-time basis for the next month or two.

Article Link: Methodist University Hospital Confirms Steve Jobs Liver Transplant (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/23/methodist-university-hospital-confirms-steve-jobs-liver-transplant/)

[lozanoj83]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

Well good on him, hopefully he makes a speedy and well
recovery.

[darijoe]

Sounds like he had excellent treatment! Hope Steve is feeling good. We love ya!! :D

[VanMac]

Glad they fixed you up Steve!

Praying that you pull through and live a long and prosperous life.:)

[cmfilms]

Jobs had qualified on the basis of being the sickest patient of his blood type at the time the donor liver became available.

Well that makes sense right there. Plus it certainly emphasizes how sick Steve was.:(

[Shake 'n' Bake]

...Addressing speculation that Jobs' fame and wealth may have enabled him to gain access to a donor liver ahead of other patients on the waiting list, the release notes that Jobs had qualified on the basis of being the sickest patient of his blood type at the time the donor liver became available...

I do not believe this statement at all. When ever someone famous goes to a hospital (or anywhere), they usually get treatment first. I don't like that at all, but that is what usually happens.

[redking31591]

I think that because after analysis he was the sickest person on the list show his dedication to his job. It is amazing that he worked everyday for as long as he did if he really was that sick. Liver problems don't appear overnight and he probably was in need of a transplant since last years WWDC. Hope he's doing well and can't wait to see what he shows us next!!!!

[Fluffy Bunny]

"he was the patient with the highest MELD score (Model for End-Stage Liver Disease) of his blood type"

Mmm, that doesn't sound too good.

Of course the next question will be "what blood type is he?"

[patrickdunn]

So much for HIPAA!

[jaw04005]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

[atropos]

I only wondering for what reason to cause his liver failure:(

[dagamer34]

I do not believe this statement at all. When ever someone famous goes to a hospital (or anywhere), they usually get treatment first. I don't like that at all, but that is what usually happens.

Hospitals don't decide on who gets an organ.

[Feng Shui]

The hell. Steve Jobs is an economy-driving machine. He'll save more lives by keeping people employed.

[inkswamp]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a @#$& about all this liver transplant news? Why does anyone care?

[daveschroeder]

So much for HIPAA!

...

"confirmed today, with the patient's permission, that Steve Jobs received a liver transplant"

[Dmac77]

OMG it really did happen. I hope your okay Steve!

Don

[applecultvictim]

Mr. Jobs is now recovering well and has an excellent prognosis.

Surely this has to be the most wonderful quote from a main page article, ever.
:)

[stefman]

I'm glad the article mentioned his prognosis is good. Look forward to a healthy Steve running Apple :apple:

[benlee]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a @#$& about all this liver transplant news? Why does anyone care?

You certainly care enough to say how much you don't care.

I think people care because this is a site about Apple News and Rumors and Steve Jobs is the CEO and Founder of Apple. Seems that a liver transplant would be newsworthy.

[queshy]

This is all the media's fault. This is a dumb article, and Steve's personal privacy has been completely invaded. There's no reason why a press release should be made when someone gets a liver transplant. Nobody will shut up until there are cameras following him around all day.

[rstone3]

You would care if you were there and someone famous was too. They get treatment first at hospitals and many times get let off the hook for crimes.

I agree with the latter point (about getting away with crimes) but disagree with the former. It is true that famous people get different care since they are often kept away from the public but I would assert the care they get is not as good in many ways. What you want when getting care is to get it in almost an assembly-line fashion for the best result. Anything that breaks the pattern has potential for decreasing success. It is also true that the transplant list is 'blind' to the name of the potential recipient.

He may not have been extremely ill to get a transplant - there is a 'point of no return' sort of a scenario built the selection process - you have to be the sickest to a point but not so sick as to likely not survive the surgery or recovery period.

And, to the poster that noted HIPAA was being violated - The Wall Street Journal did that, but not the hospital since the press release was done with Steve's permission.

I hope he continues to do well - back to work in fairly short order after such a procedure is a good sign. We wish you the best, Steve!

[Pugpuppydude]

Apple stock negatively correlates with Steve Jobs Health.
What other company is set up like this?

[acidblue]

I do not believe this statement at all. When ever someone famous goes to a hospital (or anywhere), they usually get treatment first. I don't like that at all, but that is what usually happens.

Do you have any valid data to back up such a statement? Or, are you honestly saying that the hospital has no credibility?

[jaw04005]

IAnd, to the poster that noted HIPAA was being violated - The Wall Street Journal did that, but not the hospital since the press release was done with Steve's permission.

Sounds like the WSJ article was done with Steve's permission also. In fact, I'm inclined to believe it was him or Apple's PR that leaked the story on a Friday night during a major product launch.

It was all too convenient.

[Virtuo]

Do you have any valid data to back up such a statement? Or, are you honestly saying that the hospital has no credibility?

I agree it's a plausible hypothesis, but without any evidence (studies, surveys, etc...) it's just a hypothesis. It just irks me when people make assertions as if they researched the matter. Sorry.

[twoodcc]

glad everything went well.

[MadDog31]

I love how threads like this start off so nice with the well wishes, and then they basically turn ugly and roll on for about 8-10 pages.

Let's sit back and watch the armchair physicians make a reappearance!

In 3...2...1...........

[.:R2theT]

Sounds like the WSJ article was done with Steve's permission also. In fact, I'm inclined to believe it was him or Apple's PR that leaked the story on a Friday night during a major product launch.

It was all too convenient.

Exactly. Apple is not just about secrecy. It is about control.

They knew it would eventually get out.

So a story comes out over the weekend about the transplant and then Steve releases a press release on Monday saying Apple sold a million 3GS over the weekend. Tying what could be potentially stock-dropping news to a fantastic product roll-out is pure mastery.

No way this wasn't planned.

[Peace]

This is all the media's fault. This is a dumb article, and Steve's personal privacy has been completely invaded. There's no reason why a press release should be made when someone gets a liver transplant. Nobody will shut up until there are cameras following him around all day.


Face it. Steve Jobs. For all intent and purpose is a rock star. He was made that way by US. Yes. US. It is the Mac fanatic and sites like MR that has made him this way so get over it.

I'm glad his prognosis is excellent. Officially.

[d_saum]

I am truly amazed at some of the comments on here.... some people are effing heartless. Next time you are having a rough day or having a personal crisis, I really hope someone says "who cares?" to your face.

Best Wishes Mr. Jobs... get well soon!

[jaw04005]

Exactly. Apple is not just about secrecy. It is about control.

In fairness, it's Jobs' story to control. Anyway, glad it went well and welcome back.

[rick3000]

I'm glad to hear he is okay, but I am disappointed with the way Jobs and Apple handled this situation. I would be willing to bet the SEC will be investigating Apple, because they have basically lied to investors about Jobs health. Normally a CEO's health is not the publics business (I don't care) but for Apple investors it is important, for some reason. Don't lie to your investors Apple.

Get Well Soon Steve!

[fleshman03]

I'm very happy he is ok and fine. I think he has done a great job changing the world with technology and has earned a place in the public mind of humanity.

However, the SEC (rightfully) is going to flip a poo over this:
...he was the patient with the highest MELD score of his blood type and, therefore, the sickest patient on the waiting list at the time...

[eastercat]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.
Also, Steve Jobs is lucky enough that he can afford this in the first place. For normal Americans (with insurance), this would cause them to declare bankruptcy (since their POS insurance isn't going to cover it). Actually, health care costs are one of the top reasons Americans declare bankruptcy.
Viva la universal healthcare :D

Actually, whoever leaked the information to the Wall Street Journal violated HIPAA. Considering how easy it is for hospitals to figure out who accessed a patient's confidential records, their ass is going to be fired.

[rstone3]

Sounds like the WSJ article was done with Steve's permission also. In fact, I'm inclined to believe it was him or Apple's PR that leaked the story on a Friday night during a major product launch.

It was all too convenient.

This is a very interesting point that I hadn't thought of. What better day to have this break than the day he is back to work. Wouldn't want it to come to light in a few months and bring the 'dark clouds' back to the stock. The more I think about it, the more I suspect you are right.

[bobajoul]

It is impossible for Mr. Jobs to buy his way in, the law and list do not work that way. Money does allow people to move around and put themselves into a position to be available at the right place. UNOS is truly patient blind. As to why, he had metastatic disease, which is common with VIPoma's. Remember what the articles stated- he has 38% chance to live five years. This bought him some quality time. He will use it well, I am sure.

[ericinboston]

Other than from the very personal point of view, I don't see what all the hype is about or big deal unless you worship SJ like he is the Sun God.

Seriously folks, TENS of thousands of people have liver transplants, major Cancer surgery, heart operation, <enter one of a thousand operations> a year.

Yes, I most definitely wish SJ a speedy and very successful recovery.

No, I am not going to lose sleep or worship lettuce heads praying 59 minutes every hour every day that SJ recovers.

CEOs all over the world deal with major surgery every now and then..especially CEOs over 50 years of age.

Again, I wish you well, SJ!

As for the rest of you...stop reading into this stuff like he is the Messiah.

[Cubert]

It is a little amazing at how quick celebrities can get liver transplants vs. the average person (Phil Lesh, David Crosby). The UNOS system is supposed to be unbiased and for the most part it is. You can play the system a little bit by keeping a patient in the ICU when they don't really need to be there, but with their rating system for severity, a celebrity can't (theoretically) get preferred treatment. Maybe Steve has a less common blood type (like Rh negative), and therefore, would be higher up on that list. One thing is certain, he did not have a "hormone imbalance" - he had metastases to the liver. Probably that dicking around with herbs and stuff for 6 months allowed it to spread - lesson learned. He should do well as long as he stays on his meds and live a long life.

Good luck, Unca Steve! Glad you're back.

Cubert

[ArcaneDevice]

Also, Steve Jobs is lucky enough that he can afford this in the first place. For normal Americans (with insurance), this would cause them to declare bankruptcy (since their POS insurance isn't going to cover it).

Actually, no. It's not lucky.

Paris Hilton being able to afford it ... she's lucky.

Starting out as an orphan with nothing but knowledge and an idea and then building a company that becomes a dominant player in consumer electronics ...

that's work.

[kockgunner]

I'm glad Steve has had a successful surgery. Best wishes to him.

[mac-er]

And, to the poster that noted HIPAA was being violated - The Wall Street Journal did that, but not the hospital since the press release was done with Steve's permission.


The WSJ cannot violate HIPAA because it is not a covered entity. HIPAA only prevents certain medical providers, health care insurers, employer health plans, and the like) from revealing information regarding health status, payment of health care, and health care.

Now, the person that told the WSJ, depending on who they were, could have violated HIPAA, but the WSJ is bound by HIPAA.

[Vercingetorix]

Mickey Mantle got a new liver. I don't care if Jobs showed up at the hospital with $5m in cash in a suitcase and the still-warm corpse of a 20-year-old kid, nothing's ever going to top that one.

[PygmySurfer]

I am truly amazed at some of the comments on here.... some people are effing heartless. Next time you are having a rough day or having a personal crisis, I really hope someone says "who cares?" to your face.

I don't think people are saying "who cares?" to Jobs, but to the fact that this is such a story in the media. IMHO, all this media attention on Steve's health is an invasion of privacy, and I feel sorry for him. Obviously, Steve doesn't want his health issues being discussed in the media, yet the media is constantly digging, trying to get a story. They don't care about his health, they just want to be the first to break the news. Leave the guy alone, it's nobody's damn business but his own.

[SandynJosh]

Do you have any valid data to back up such a statement? Or, are you honestly saying that the hospital has no credibility?

ummm...Shake and Bake never let's facts get in the way of a good sounding conspiracy statement pulled out his nether regions.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the closeness in time between when the iPhone3gS was announced and the announcement that Steve Jobs "got a new liver and is doing quite well, thank you."

It seems now that in addition to all the other amazing things the new iPhone 3gS is capable of doing, it also can raise a dying CEO off of his death bed. Let's see MicroSoft add that claim to it's Zune phone!

[mauricev]

Probably that dicking around with herbs and stuff for 6 months allowed it to spread - lesson learned.

Where is the evidence that he took herbs, let alone evidence that allowed it spread? Even chemotherapy isn't magic.

[ArcaneDevice]

As for the rest of you...stop reading into this stuff like he is the Messiah.

If you're an Apple user (and using this forum, I would assume that would be so) you can damn well say he is the messiah. Apple would not be in the shape it's in if Jobs had not returned. So if you want to thank one person for literally bringing Apple back from the dead and giving you the iMac, iPod, iPhone, iTunes etc. Jobs is the man.

If you want to see what Apple was like before he came back, jump back in time to 97 and watch Gil Amelio burning it to the ground.

Without Jobs you would be using a beige box, carrying a CD player still and have a 0.5% market share.

[El Carbonite]

I'm glad to hear he is okay, but I am disappointed with the way Jobs and Apple handled this situation. I would be willing to bet the SEC will be investigating Apple, because they have basically lied to investors about Jobs health. Normally a CEO's health is not the publics business (I don't care) but for Apple investors it is important, for some reason. Don't lie to your investors Apple.

Get Well Soon Steve!

Technically he wasn't the CEO at the time of the operation, Tim Cook was. Since Jobs was on a medical leave, Apple didn't have to disclose anything.

[rick3000]

Of course he's the Messiah... :D
http://cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/3551920702_3fd131319f.jpg

[benlee]

As for the rest of you...stop reading into this stuff like he is the Messiah.

I don't see how you can say people are reading into this stuff like he is the Messiah.

Stop reading into this stuff like you are the Messiah.

You can't expect people to not be interested or concerned for the health and well-being of the CEO of a company they have an interest in, stock in, or just a general nerdy infatuation with its products.

Stop making this some kind of debate. This is America, its newsworthy when Paris Hilton doesn't wear underwear, get over it or do something about it, but posting on a Mac forum isn't going to accomplish either.

[3.14159]

Rather than engaging in speculation, here's some survival numbers from a recent review article on this subject. The reference is also noted below:

Table. Liver transplantation results for neuroendocrine (NE) tumours.
(Source Hoti and Adams. Transplant Int’l 2008; 21(12):1107–1117)

Author Yr (Number) 1yr 3yr 5yr Survival(%)

Alessiani 1995(14) 64 64 64
Routley 1995(11) 82 57 28
Le Treut 1997(31) 58 47 36
Lang 1997(12) 82 82 82
Olausson 2002(9) 89 – –
Rosenau 2002(19) 89 – 80
Florman 2004(11) 73 – 36
ELTR Report (Other NE tumours)
2007 (120 ) 81 65 53
ELTR Report(Carcinoid) 2007(159) 88 – 52
Le Treut 2007(85) – – 68

[terryzx]

Good for Steve!!!

Everyone should WISH HIM WELL :apple:

[akm3]

I do not believe this statement at all. When ever someone famous goes to a hospital (or anywhere), they usually get treatment first. I don't like that at all, but that is what usually happens.

And you say that as a... ? Doctor? Nurse? Med-tech? Phlebotomist? HUC? Perhaps you work in medical records? On what are you basing your incorrect assertions?

[Scott6666]

So when will the press (or the fans) hunt down the donor family so we call heap thanks upon the donor?

Seriously, it's nice that Steve is doing well. Good example as to why we should all be donors.

Now, let's find out whose liver is inside our Apple chieftain.

[akm3]

So much for HIPAA!

It says they did the release with Jobs' permission, so there was no HIPAA violation.

[akm3]

So when will the press (or the fans) hunt down the donor family so we call heap thanks upon the donor?

Seriously, it's nice that Steve is doing well. Good example as to why we should all be donors.

Now, let's find out whose liver is inside our Apple chieftain.

I don't know, but Steve should throw at least a billion$ at that family, he can afford it.

[sam10685]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a @#$& about all this liver transplant news? Why does anyone care?

Not one BIT.

[Hot Snowboarder]

Doctor says to one of the most powerful billionaires on the planet.

"I'm sorry Mr. Jobs, we can't find you a liver".

Whatever. lol.

[cmichaelb]

Oh, and wishing Steve a full and speedy recovery.

[lamina]

Wow. I don't think anyone had any idea that it was so serious. He was the sickest patient of his blood type. Sounds like he was actually close to death.

Steve, get better buddy.

[VicMacs]

Surely this has to be the most wonderful quote from a main page article, ever.
:)


I'll drink to that! Well said Doc! neXT!

[BWhaler]

I hope Steve is better now. Not for Apple, not for us, but for Steve and his family.

[Darth.Titan]

If I'd known he was here in town I'd've sent a get well card...

[espoir]

Me personally, I wish to Steve good health and so on but isn't it to much to be talking about someone's liver for several days now on page one as top news? It's a bit depressing :)

[marco114]

I am glad that Steve has a second chance to do something even more with his life. I do hope he gets some rest and takes some time off to enjoy his life. Although his enjoyment is probably making new stuff, he's got a family that probably wants a little of him before he's gone.

I have not been an organ donor in the past. After today I went down to the driver's license place and changed my organ donor status.

You never know one day, I could be saving Steve Jobs, or someone's mom or or little sister. I encourage you all to do the same.

As an Apple customer since the Apple //e debuted, it's been SJ that has stepped up to the plate and told us to Think Different. Push forward. Make it better. And expect perfection.

Cheers Steve! :apple:

By the way: I just found out my blood work for insurance came back with HIGH levels of liver enzymes. Now I need to have more tests. Live your life, you never know when you'll be done.

[sachdizzle]

Doctor says to one of the most powerful billionaires on the planet.

"I'm sorry Mr. Jobs, we can't find you a liver".

Whatever. lol.

Doctors dont find livers, UNOS does through the OPNT. They get a liver and call the hospital where the highest person is listed.

[walterblaurock]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a @#$& about all this liver transplant news? Why does anyone care?

Seems funny to me that someone who has been a member of this forum for 6+ years wouldn't care about the health of the guy who has made this company, in more ways than one.

In other news, glad to see he's back. Hope he recovers quickly!

[hundleton1]

back to the subject, can anyone predict what may have caused his liver to fail ? a result of the cancer treatment ?

[iSamurai]

I thought hospitals have code of conducts of keeping patients' identities and records private...

[Evangelion]

I thought hospitals have code of conducts of keeping patients' identities and records private...

Well, this case has generated considerable interest. And in this case Jobs apparently asked/allowed them to release the information. I would guess that Jobs prefers if this discussion is handled through intermediaries (like the hospital) than having people ask him directly.

[La Porta]

I hope that everyone realizes that Steve must have authorized the hospital to release that information. HIPAA regulations do not allow hospitals, nor even individual healthcare workers, to just release such information without written authorization from patients. Even speaking about a patient by name and in detail in an open area WITHIN THE HOSPITAL is technically a violation. This would have not gotten out unless he wanted it to, or the hospital would have been slapped very hard not just by Steve, but by the government as well.

[apolloa]

Oh the jokes you could have fun with considering it was his liver! But glad to know he's on the mend and it'll be a few years yet before he's fully recovered. Do you have to take pills for the rest of your life?
I can also see all the nay sayers claiming this is the end of Jobs as Apples CEO, meh, i don't think so, I think he'll take a back seat for a while in the public eye but he knows he needs to either quit or get on stage and sell his products, I think he enjoys getting on stage too much to not do it.

And I also predict people claiming he jumped the queue to get a donor organ! It won't surprise me, despite the fact jobs has probably been ill for several months now and has no doubt tried every treatment going as an organ transplant isn't normally appealing to anyone, even if it will save your life.

[adamw]

Well wishes Mr. Jobs! My prayers are with you.

[Slogan]

Seems like damaged limitation after the information has already got out. Maybe Apple and Steve Jobs heard the rumblings of potential court run ins in regards to the "public being made aware of health of Senior officials".

[Cloudane]

Maybe I've been watching too much of the Fullmetal Alchemist remake, but I have this vision of him walking on stage for the next keynote, coughing up a load of blood and then carrying on like nothing ever happened :p

Glad to hear he's doing well. Good luck to the fella :)

[annk]

This thread can be used to discuss Steve Job's liver transplant and discussions CLOSELY RELATED to it. Only.

Carry on...

[Willis]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

Wow... as much as I hate our National Health Service, I'm glad it's in place so that should anyone have to go through with treatment like this, they don't have to pay for it. (even though it is paid by us through NIC)

Back on Topic;
I'm glad Steve is back to good health, but I wish Apple wasn't Steve Jobs. I want Apple to be everyone who works there and what makes it tick. The last 6 months have been good to Apple, a record quarter and new products have been released.

Should Steve have to leave in the future, I don't see Apple failing as it has in the past

[Veri]

Doctor says to one of the most powerful billionaires on the planet.

"I'm sorry Mr. Jobs, we can't find you a liver".

Whatever. lol.
The alternative of "organ tourism" is quite horrible. The destitute may sell you one kidney or part of a liver, while for a whole liver you may find a doctor in a country with lax definitions of "brain death". Former USSR, I'm looking at you.

Our family wealth is certainly such that we could afford the above, but I would rather die than take an innocent man's life to save my own. For I would no longer be a man.

It is to his credit that he has publicly demonstrated what rich men can and should do. This is not fawning; this is toasting him for leading by example.

[bobbleheadbob]

I'm glad Steve is back to good health, but I wish Apple wasn't Steve Jobs. I want Apple to be everyone who works there and what makes it tick. The last 6 months have been good to Apple, a record quarter and new products have been released.

Should Steve have to leave in the future, I don't see Apple failing as it has in the past

I agree, but also believe that an Apple with Steve Jobs at the helm is much more interesting and exciting (to me at least) than Apple with Tim Cook. Like it or not, he is an iconic figure with a unique perspective on the industry. I wish him well and hope to see him back on stage presenting at an Apple event real soon.

[DELLsFan]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

Few insurance policies do. Heart, Liver, Lung, Kidney ... all these organ transplant procedures are unique and special procedures with substantive costs associated with them. You're either sponsored, rich, or lucky to become a recipient in the US. Outside the US, the challenge in getting this sort of treatment is far greater, it seems to me.

Actually, no. It's not lucky.

Paris Hilton being able to afford it ... she's lucky.

Starting out as an orphan with nothing but knowledge and an idea and then building a company that becomes a dominant player in consumer electronics ...

that's work.

Beautifully stated. Thank you! :apple:

... Without Jobs you would be using a beige box, carrying a CD player still and have a 0.5% market share.

Hey Hey HEY now ... if you've been told once, you've been told a thousand times, we don't care about Market Share here! :rolleyes:

Without Jobs, my computer and gadget budget might have been easier on my wallet, to be sure ... however I'm quite thrilled with the Mac / Apple experience overall. Thank you, Mr. Jobs for a job well done! I wish for him a speedy recovery.

[Porco]

"Mr. Jobs is now recovering well and has an excellent prognosis."

That is the important bit. Great news. I've found all the speculation quite gross, especially people getting uppity about how it affects stock prices etc...

[Full of Win]

I got two cavities and became near-diabetic from reading the preceding post.

[TraceyS/FL]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

A friends mom had a lung transplant - financial qualifications were part of being accepted into the program. Can you pay for the meds for the rest of your life......

[Duncan-UK]

It might be a nice idea for Apple to include in all of the boxes for their products an information sheet about becoming an organ donor, or host a web page giving this out.

[meinkuchen]

A friends mom had a lung transplant - financial qualifications were part of being accepted into the program. Can you pay for the meds for the rest of your life......

wow this is just horrible
i'm glad having a real insurance

@topic
good for sj and i guess good for the applestocks 2

[Veri]

Just thought I'd say that I'm a registered organ donor and, when I die, you guys and everyone else are welcome to take any of my organs in order of medical need.

That was an advert to join your country's organ donor scheme, btw. I carry at least US (http://www.organdonor.gov/donor/index.htm) and UK (http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/how_to_become_a_donor.jsp) (links to schemes) donor cards. Remember to tell your family of your wishes, and do observe that donor schemes allow you to be choosy if your culture/medical conditions require it.

You might instead want to donate your body to medical learning or research (UK (http://www.hta.gov.uk/donations/howtodonateyourbodytomedicalscience.cfm)). How cool would that be?

Steve Jobs only lived because someone else did this. You may be able to save another life!

It might be a nice idea for Apple to include in all of the boxes for their products an information sheet about becoming an organ donor, or host a web page giving this out.
What a great idea. Letters ahoy.

[archipellago]

Researching MELD it seems that he pretty much had only 3 months to live, without this transplant.

[MoreBS]

Only speculation here, but how did Jobs get a liver ? First he finds out he needs a liver, and tells his doctors full steam ahead, find one. Money is no object. They find out that Tennessee has the shortest waiting list. Bam! Buy a nice house in Tennessee, get on the waiting list. No fund raising required at the local 7-11 with a plastic jar.

Now I know that your insurance or my insurance would not pay for that. And not even universal health care would pay for that. Plus there are not enough livers available so opening the US Treasury wide open wouldn't even make this fair.

[ekwipt]

best of luck steve :apple:

[gnasher729]

I'm glad to hear he is okay, but I am disappointed with the way Jobs and Apple handled this situation. I would be willing to bet the SEC will be investigating Apple, because they have basically lied to investors about Jobs health. Normally a CEO's health is not the publics business (I don't care) but for Apple investors it is important, for some reason. Don't lie to your investors Apple.

Get Well Soon Steve!

It isn't important for investors. It was a tool for the kind of investor who gets some negative rumor circulated, hope that the share price drops, and profit from it (short sellers mostly); it doesn't have a long term effect anyway as proven by AAPL's gain while Steve Jobs was gone. And there will be a certain amount of people who think it is important to satisfy their curiosity, but face it, it isn't.

[gnasher729]

Seems funny to me that someone who has been a member of this forum for 6+ years wouldn't care about the health of the guy who has made this company, in more ways than one.

Who says he doesn't care for Steve Jobs' health? He just doesn't think that it is appropriate to make someone's health, anyone's health, the subject of idle and often nasty discussions in the Wall Street Journal, on MacRumors, or anywhere else.

Seems like damaged limitation after the information has already got out. Maybe Apple and Steve Jobs heard the rumblings of potential court run ins in regards to the "public being made aware of health of Senior officials".

See what I mean by "idle and often nasty discussions" ?

[designgeek]

It might be a nice idea for Apple to include in all of the boxes for their products an information sheet about becoming an organ donor, or host a web page giving this out.

+1 more, I think this is a good idea. I hope he gets better fast, I bet he'll be at the iPod even in Sep.

[Harun]

"he was the patient with the highest MELD score (Model for End-Stage Liver Disease) of his blood type"

Mmm, that doesn't sound too good.

Of course the next question will be "what blood type is he?"

I believe it is a rare type called "Obscenely Super Rich".

[ibwb]

Few insurance policies do. Heart, Liver, Lung, Kidney ... all these organ transplant procedures are unique and special procedures with substantive costs associated with them. You're either sponsored, rich, or lucky to become a recipient in the US. Outside the US, the challenge in getting this sort of treatment is far greater, it seems to me.

That's overstating things a bit. I don't know the percentage, but it's not really uncommon for insurance policies to cover transplants -- though it's true that there is always a special negotiation involved between the hospital and the company. As for kidney transplants, a little-known fact is that all US citizens with end-stage renal disease are eligible for Medicare regardless of age, and Medicare will absolutely pay for kidney transplants (the most common kind of major organ transplant). My own kidney transplant was covered under private insurance, my brother's under Medicare, and nobody went bankrupt.

[studlybw]

I can't believe I have to post this in another thread. Everybody needs to stop discussing how Steve is rich and how he got his transplant and other "facts" that you know nothing about. It makes people more and more ignorant of the life-saving gift of organ and tissue donation.

I had a liver transplant 17 years ago, I'm not rich at all, and I only waited 8 days to receive a transplant. UNOS (United Network of Organ Sharing) had no idea how much money I had.

People die every day waiting for an organ to become available and the only thing that keeps those transplants from happening is lack of education in the process. Go to your local organ procurement agency and ask for the facts.

I'm alive today because a 10 year old boy from Baton Rouge, LA., and his family, decided to give the greatest gift anyone can give, the gift of life. Somebody else did that for Steve Jobs and, bottom line, he's alive because they were educated and selfless enough to make that decision.

Moderators, please close this thread because it's doing more harm than it is good for organ and tissue donation. It's not an argument about whether or not an ipod mock is fake or not, it's an argument that mocks people who die everyday waiting and mocks people who give the precious gift of organ and tissue donation.

[Evangelion]

I'm alive today because a 10 year old boy from Baton Rouge, LA., and his family, decided to give the greatest gift anyone can give, the gift of life. Somebody else did that for Steve Jobs and, bottom line, he's alive because they were educated and selfless enough to make that decision.

I hope that everyone here is an organ-donor. If you aren't, why not? I know that I always carry my organ-donor card in my wallet, just in case something happens to me.

There really is no excuse to NOT be an organ-donor.

[drewster]

Any word from the SEC on this???

[rhett7660]

So much for HIPAA!

Just incase you missed it...



Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare today issued a brief press release confirming that Steve Jobs did receive a liver transplant at the Methodist University Hospital Transplant Institute. The release was issued with Jobs' permission several days after The Wall Street Journal reported that Jobs received the transplant in Tennessee two months ago.

[zgh1999]

Oh great.

Mother Earth is dying a slow death -- being murdered by consumerism and greed and evil of mankind.

And billions of people are suffering war, disease, hunger and poverty.

But what we care about is the diseased liver of Mr. Jobs.

Leave the man alone, and move on.

[johnqh]

I have not been an organ donor in the past. After today I went down to the driver's license place and changed my organ donor status.

You never know one day, I could be saving Steve Jobs, or someone's mom or or little sister. I encourage you all to do the same.


Thumbs UP!

I will do that. I encourage everyone to do that!

[happydude]

Well that makes sense right there. Plus it certainly emphasizes how sick Steve was.:(

yeah. glad he finally sought serious treatment. hope he recovers for his own sake and his family's sake. and of course, apple needs him around. though the company did well without him. hopefully it will quell fears for the day when he does step down.

[johnqh]

I don't care whatsoever whether he returns to Apple.

Just wish him well and get healthy.

Retire, or take time off. Spend time with kids. Give some graduation speeches. Steve's Stanford Commencement Speech 2005 is one of the most inspiring speeches I have see. link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA)

[jongriff]

back to the subject, can anyone predict what may have caused his liver to fail ? a result of the cancer treatment ?

I'm just a medical student so take this as just speculation but I would think that the most likely reason for his liver to fail would be because the original pancreatic cancer he had a while back spread to his liver. This doesn't give him the best prognosis however, so I hope that he had it for a different reason and that he recovers well.

[overcast]

How exactly does someone with cancer get approved for a liver transplant? It obviously spread to his liver, since the pancreatic bit. Other than the fact that Jobs has tons of money.

[BenK01]

How exactly does someone with cancer get approved for a liver transplant? It obviously spread to his liver, since the pancreatic bit. Other than the fact that Jobs has tons of money.

Maybe, maybe not. The liver disease wouldn't have to be related to the cancer. Having said that, liver transplant is a pretty good treatment for liver cancer, so that's why someone with liver cancer would get approved for a liver transplant.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2003/10_30_03.html

[jongriff]

How exactly does someone with cancer get approved for a liver transplant? It obviously spread to his liver, since the pancreatic bit. Other than the fact that Jobs has tons of money.

Exactly. Medically it doesn't make sense to transplant. The less cynical side of me wonders if it is therefore unrelated to his cancer rather than the alternative that he is billionaire!

[bobajoul]

The requirement to have extra money is for cost beyond the transplant. Most major insurance covers transplants, the problem is when someone purchases insurance from a minor carrier which is not really a health insurance carrier, then they find they have very limited coverage. Transplant centers also impose other conditions to ensure good use of a limited pool of organs. As an example, there was a male from a western state who was developmentally delayed, his mother was schizophrenic, the hospitals denied his transplant. They found a state that would do it, the transplant ensued and the mother got off her meds, did not give the child the rejection meds and the liver failed. That liver was wasted and someone died because that patient was at the right place at the right time. This is why UNOS exists, to parcel out fair treatment of all. I am aware of a number of wealthy and influential people who had transplants or their family got treatment. They waited like everyone else. And many of them devoted lots of time and effort and money to transplant programs in return to help those less fortunate. Most people are basically good, a situation like Mr. Jobs has scares the hell out of them, as it should, and they emerge healthier, grateful for their second chance and devoted to helping others. Fortunately, they have better character and intentions than a lot of people who flame away on message boards.
The man got another chance, his company still has him, his family has a father and husband for more time and we have the benefit of his particular genius and passion. Enjoy it, life is short. Celebrate his luck and good health. And show some gratitude for your own.

[jongriff]

Maybe, maybe not. The liver disease wouldn't have to be related to the cancer. Having said that, liver transplant is a pretty good treatment for liver cancer, so that's why someone with liver cancer would get approved for a liver transplant.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2003/10_30_03.html

The linked article is talking about primary liver cancers. Steve's is very likely to be a metastasis from his pancreatic primary - the article is talking about a different group of patients.

[bobajoul]

How exactly does someone with cancer get approved for a liver transplant? It obviously spread to his liver, since the pancreatic bit. Other than the fact that Jobs has tons of money.

Depends on the type of cancer. If it were a hepatoma, he would be very unlikely to get the transplant. This tumor grows slowly and locally, so excision will largely cure it.

[studlybw]

Other than the fact that Jobs has tons of money.

Exactly what I'm talking about. People have no idea how UNOS and organ allocation works and this thread does nothing but further the ignorance that is already rampant around organ and tissue donation. People die waiting for an organ because others don't take the time to really look into it.

Everyone please go to http://www.unos.org/ and read up about organ and tissue donation and allocation.

[Hattig]

I don't know, but Steve should throw at least a billion$ at that family, he can afford it.

He could put a few billion into a fund for relatives of transplant donors, which pays out money to the estates of those that donate. Hopefully it would be self funding, i.e., from wise ethical investments it would grow enough each year to cover the payments.

This would encourage people to become donors, even within a system where many people make massive gains ($1m for an operation, that's a lot for a few specialist doctors, even if they spend a week practicing for each case) from a person's personal situation. Once that's done, we can make cars less safe in order to get more donors.

Personally if I died in a donor-situation, I would like it that bits of me would go on living, and went to save someone else's life.

[GRuizMD]

The only advantage Jobs had with regards to his transplant was he didn't have to sell his home, car, etc to pay for his transplant. I have an aunt that's about to be placed on the liver transplant list, and her doctors have already warned her that the transplant itself will cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 and her post-transplant prescriptions will total $35,000 per year for the foreseeable future. :eek:

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

Mmmmm I'm a surgeon at my center we transplant liver and kidneys almost on a daily basis, I've never heard of anyone being asked to pay upfront for a liver transplant or medications, yor statement is either false, inaccurate or your family member needs to do
ewhere else.

To stay on topic what is most interesting to me is the actual indication for the transplant, cause that with some other factors define his prognosis and survival. I guess that did not make it into the press release

[NinjaHERO]

I think the real question is what kind of liver did he get? Was it a new liver with a 1.5gb transfer rate, or did they use an update to get Steve the 3.0gb? Does his liver accept gestures? :D


All joking aside, I saw a surgeon post on here. Does a person get the whole liver or since it regenerates do they divide a donated liver up into a few parts and give it to multiple patients? Just wondering if some lucky fan out there has the other half of the new Steve liver.

[DELLsFan]

Exactly what I'm talking about. People have no idea how UNOS and organ allocation works and this thread does nothing but further the ignorance that is already rampant around organ and tissue donation. People die waiting for an organ because others don't take the time to really look into it.

Everyone please go to http://www.unos.org/ and read up about organ and tissue donation and allocation.




For what it's worth, I think the Steve Jobs' liver transplant hype will do more good than bad here on these forums - regardless of our levels of knowledge on the subject. If just one person has signed up to be an organ donor after reading about Steve's experience, isn't that worth it?

[fishepa]

I really have a hard time believing Jobs was the sickest patient on the list. $$$$$$$$$$$

[joro]

I really have a hard time believing Jobs was the sickest patient on the list. $$$$$$$$$$$

Well the liver came from a legitimate sources, UNOS, which would preclude any kind of foul play since who gets organs is dependent on what stage of the disease they are in. I think the fact that he did get the transplant is testament to the fact that he was indeed sicker than Apple was portraying him to be.

[dwman]

I really have a hard time believing Jobs was the sickest patient on the list. $$$$$$$$$$$

You're not the only one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31509368/ns/health-health_care/

[jaw04005]

Mmmmm I'm a surgeon at my center we transplant liver and kidneys almost on a daily basis, I've never heard of anyone being asked to pay upfront for a liver transplant or medications, yor statement is either false, inaccurate or your family member needs to do
ewhere else.

Nowhere did I mention in my post that they asked my aunt to pay "up front." :rolleyes: I was simply pointing out the real costs of a transplant and post-transplant prescriptions.

By the way, those estimates were directly from the hospital's financial aid office, and are in line with what the two liver transplant survivors that we know within our community have paid/are paying.

It also looks like they're well within the national average at least according to Transplant Living.

http://www.transplantliving.org/beforethetransplant/finance/costs.aspx

[joro]

Shorter wait time in Tennessee
And UNOS data shows the median number of days from getting on the liver waiting list to getting a transplant was 306 nationally, in Tennessee only 48.

By traveling to Memphis, Jobs could drastically increase the odds he would secure a liver and cut the wait time. He also might have tried to gain entry to more transplant centers to increase the odds that he would get a transplant. Jobs or anyone with enough money can ”multiply list” at many centers and, by putting chips on more than one number, boost the odds of winning the transplant lottery. About 3 percent of all those on the national waiting list for livers, hearts and kidneys are listed at more than one program.

Jobs appears to have known exactly how to use his resources to maximize his chances of getting a life-saving transplant. Most Americans do not.

Interesting information from the MSBNC article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31509368/ns/health-health_care/), something to keep in mind if I or a family member ever need a transplant.

[muskratboy]

... but for Apple investors it is important, for some reason.

You're right... why would APPLE fans care about STEVE JOBS? What has HE every done for us? NOTHING i tell you, NOTHING! And talk about a figurehead CEO... he doesn't make business OR product decisions! (you are an idiot)

I really have a hard time believing Jobs was the sickest patient on the list.

Yup, because RICH people with cancer and liver failure don't really get THAT sick. I mean, logically... the fact that he is rich means he can't possibly be the sickest person in the hospital. oh wait, that also is ridiculously stupid.

Now... EVERYONE GO SIGN UP TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR.

seriously... steve aside... everyone should be signed up. in fact, the whole system should be opt-out, instead of opt-in.

also, you should not be able to GET an organ transplant unless you've been on the organ donation list. heck, unless your WHOLE FAMILY is on the list.

There is no excuse for ANYONE to not be an organ donor. So go freaking sign up already. :D

[farmboy]

[FONT="Courier New"]Rather than engaging in speculation, here's some survival numbers from a recent review article on this subject. The reference is also noted below:

Table. Liver transplantation results for neuroendocrine (NE) tumours.
(Source Hoti and Adams. Transplant Int’l 2008; 21(12):1107–1117)

Author Yr (Number) 1yr 3yr 5yr Survival(%)

Alessiani 1995(14) 64 64 64
Routley 1995(11) [B]82 57 28]....

Remember---these are percentages only, not individual results. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary. You will notice the wide (probably statistically significant) variation in survival rate percentages. It depends on the skills of the surgeon/s, the type of cancers (some centers specialize in more "virulent" and late stage presentations), patient availability for follow-up, type of pre and post treatment (chemo/radiation/surgeries), etc. Some centers have higher survival/success rates because they don't take the riskier cases; that way the published success rates always look better than other centers and generate more referrals. Some centers throw caution to the wind and do commando surgery when justifiable.

I think the interesting thing will be to see how Jobs handles his life and focus at Apple. Speaking from personal experience (colo-rectal mucinogenic adenocarcinoma as a consequence of Crohns, doing great 3 years out just missing quite a bit of OEM body parts), cancer has a way of focusing your attention. Your BS threshold is greatly reduced, and separating important from not important is almost instantaneous. My approach is full steam ahead, life as normal, the adventure continues. Unlike TV movies of the week, most people living with cancer just want their regular life back--no world cruises, no watching every sunset. Just kiss the wife, hug the kids, settle the family feuds, and get your butt out of bed and go back to work.

[Veri]

You're not the only one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31509368/ns/health-health_care/

This article indicates that patients will look for the (legitimate) hospital most likely to have the resources to perform an operation as quickly as possible. Doh?

This thread is already life-saving because at least one person has decided to become an organ donor after reading it. Good. Here's what I know about the process. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7933500#post7933500)

[memphismac]

Interesting information from the MSBNC article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31509368/ns/health-health_care/), something to keep in mind if I or a family member ever need a transplant.

UNOS handles "the transplant list".
The UNOS list is a national list.
Transplant organs are distributed nationally.

The only relevance of state wait times is to show which states have sicker transplant patients. In this case, Tennessee patients are sicker, and thus have shorter wait times.

The number of transplant patients listed with UNOS is also misleading.
Tennessee's population is 17% of California.
Tennessee's number of patients listed with UNOS is 18% of California.

[dwman]

Or conspiracy theorists will connect the dots...this from a commenter in a NYT op-ed:

Al Gore, from Tennessee; Al Gore, on the Apple Board of Directors; Steve Jobs lives in California, long waiting list for a liver; Steve Jobs goes to Tennessee and all is taken care of.

I personally don't believe this, but amazing what some people will think of.

[studlybw]

Yes please ... hurry - before someone learns something or disputes something with which you disagree! Good call! :rolleyes:

For what it's worth, I think the Steve Jobs' liver transplant hype will do more good than bad here on these forums - regardless of our levels of knowledge on the subject. If just one person has signed up to be an organ donor after reading about Steve's experience, isn't that worth it?

This isn't a matter of disagreeing. This is a matter of life and death.

If you didn't read my earlier post, I received a liver transplant 17 years ago this July 4th. I now do public speaking for my local organ procurement agency to dispel the many rumors and misconceptions that the media, and general ignorance, so easily instills in people. My father is the president of the board of Lifeline of Ohio Organ Procurement, the OPO in charge of most of Ohio as well as part of West Virginia. I work in video production and just recently finished a 6 part series on organ transplantation for prospective donors and recipients for the Ohio State University Medical Center. I have actual, real-life, experience with organ and tissue donation and I've known too many people who've died because an organ didn't become available.

The point is, this thread is only contributing to the misconceptions in organ and tissue donation. The real facts can be found at http://www.unos.org . Steve Jobs getting a liver transplant has raised awareness of transplantation but this thread is not helping it anymore.

[Veri]

The point is, this thread is only contributing to the misconceptions in organ and tissue donation. The real facts can be found at http://www.unos.org . Steve Jobs getting a liver transplant has raised awareness of transplantation but this thread is not helping it anymore.

Firstly, thank you for the work you and your father do to improve awareness on and the process of organ transplantation.

I do believe that you'll benefit most from correcting and otherwise educating people rather than suggesting that they should stop speaking. Consider a debate with a Holocaust denier: you begin by listening to what he has to say, then you explain calmly why he is wrong, providing him with mountains of evidence. You cannot educate people by telling them that they are too ignorant to speak; that only reinforces their misconceptions.

[studlybw]

I do believe that you'll benefit most from correcting and otherwise educating people rather than suggesting that they should stop speaking. Consider a debate with a Holocaust denier: you begin by listening to what he has to say, then you explain calmly why he is wrong, providing him with mountains of evidence. You cannot educate people by telling them that they are too ignorant to speak; that only reinforces their misconceptions.

It's not for my benefit, I already received a life-saving transplant. My point is, there are many places that people can go to get great educated facts on transplantation and this isn't one of them. You have to go to the people who know best. Your local OPO, http://www.unos.org or http://www.donatelife.net/

[DELLsFan]

Firstly, thank you for the work you and your father do to improve awareness on and the process of organ transplantation.

Seconded. :)

... I do believe that you'll benefit most from correcting and otherwise educating people rather than suggesting that they should stop speaking...

Exactly. Clearly, some folks have first-hand, personal experiences with this topic. Let those experiences fuel your passion and ability to share with others. Don't let them jade your perspective on my (or anyone else's) ability to learn and contribute to the discussion.

Besides, I prefer honey over vinegar. :D

[phillipjfry]

I only wondering for what reason to cause his liver failure:(

probably because of all the iphone release party-related heavy drinking going on :p

[studlybw]

Seconded. :)



Exactly. Clearly, some folks have first-hand, personal experiences with this topic. Let those experiences fuel your passion and ability to share with others. Don't let them jade your perspective on my (or anyone else's) ability to learn and contribute to the discussion.

Besides, I prefer honey over vinegar. :D

Alright, I understand. Can I make a request that speculation and "guesses" stay out of the conversation then? The issue of celebrities getting transplants is one that plagues organ and tissue donation. Many people assume that money or fame can buy your way up the list. I waited only 8 days for an organ and I'm just an average joe. Thank God the Brouillete's from Baton Rouge, LA, the family who donated their 10 year old son's liver to me, didn't just assume that organ donation and transplantation could be rigged. If they had, who knows where I would be today.

[scott pruett]

Exactly what I'm talking about. People have no idea how UNOS and organ allocation works and this thread does nothing but further the ignorance that is already rampant around organ and tissue donation. People die waiting for an organ because others don't take the time to really look into it.

Everyone please go to http://www.unos.org/ and read up about organ and tissue donation and allocation.
I agree. Seriously people. Speculation and armchair expertise is retarded.

My father (http://www.unos.org/members/bodDetail.asp?MemberTitle=UNOS%20-%20Immediate%20Past%20President&name=Pruett,%20Timothy) has performed lots of liver transplants & it's definitely not about being wealthy.

Three people I know locally that aren't in the uber-elite tax bracket that have received livers:

1) the owner of a BBQ joint.
2) the mother of a car salesman.
3) the manager of a putt-putt.

[DELLsFan]

Alright, I understand. Can I make a request that speculation and "guesses" stay out of the conversation then? The issue of celebrities getting transplants is one that plagues organ and tissue donation. Many people assume that money or fame can buy your way up the list. I waited only 8 days for an organ and I'm just an average joe. Thank God the Brouillete's from Baton Rouge, LA, the family who donated their 10 year old son's liver to me, didn't just assume that organ donation and transplantation could be rigged. If they had, who knows where I would be today.

Your points are well-taken. Thank you for sharing them! I have learned a bit more about the topic thanks to you and your experiences. I stand corrected and updated on the topic.

Cheers! :D

[JabbaII]

In America is it possible to say voluntarily donate an organ to a designated person?

Such as the case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/12/1063341768102.html?from=storyrhs

[deconstruct60]

Transplant organs are distributed nationally.



If that were true then there wouldn't be geographical disparities. There is an attempt to do that where possible, but organs aren't viable for long extended periods of time outside the body.

the unocos site folks have been quoting for instance.

It is not currently feasible to distribute organs using a single national Waiting List because they can last only a limited time without oxygenated blood and for other technical reasons (e.g., the necessity of crossmatching before kidney transplants). Doing so might distribute organs more equally across the nation, but it would result in unacceptable organ damage and wasted organs. For this reason, organs are currently distributed to patient populations that are smaller than the entire national population but are not so large that transporting organs from donor to patient will result in unacceptable ischemia time (time without oxygenated blood).


There is a local list, a regional list , and finally a national list. If there is enough of a backlog on the local and regional lists, that organ will never make it to the national list. Livers are viable longer than some organs, but only increasing the odds of a problem if ship for longest distance in the event of a tie (or very close score.)


So while someone isn't completely disadvantaged by not being able to put multiple bets down in different regions to say they are nationally distributed only isn't true.

Money does play a role in the process. No access to money large enough, you can't even get on the list to get to the unos phase of the process. Do you need personal millionaire money no. But to say it play zero role is equally detached from reality. That unos is "money influence free" is a misdirection from the role that money does play. Regions with higher percentages of poorer folks who can't make the list will have shorter lines.

[Tonezorz]

I feel for the guy/girl who WAS on top of the list before Jobs showed up. Hopefully they make a full recovery as well. Otherwise, Steve Jobs killed somebody.

[studlybw]

In America is it possible to say voluntarily donate an organ to a designated person?

Such as the case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/12/1063341768102.html?from=storyrhs

Yes, it's called directed donation. There are many stipulations to it if it's a deceased donation. Your best bet is to go to one of the sites mentioned previously and research it.

[gnasher729]

I feel for the guy/girl who WAS on top of the list before Jobs showed up. Hopefully they make a full recovery as well. Otherwise, Steve Jobs killed somebody.

You should really re-think your argument.

Let's say Joe Smith gets on organ transplant. Did Joe Smith kill the person who was on top of the list before Joe showed up? What about anyone else getting a transplant?

[gathart]

To top it off, she has insurance yet it's practically worthless. Surprisingly, most "normal people" insurance doesn't cover transplants.

Ah, the advances of the American health care system:p

No in his case you certainly can be assured that he was the right match for a donor, money doesn't make you a right match.

[flashframe]

I do not believe this statement at all. When ever someone famous goes to a hospital (or anywhere), they usually get treatment first. I don't like that at all, but that is what usually happens.

Yes, I am sure you were happy with the results of the hospital that refused to treat John Lennon first because he was a celebrity.

[deconstruct60]

In America is it possible to say voluntarily donate an organ to a designated person?

Such as the case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/12/1063341768102.html?from=storyrhs

Yes. You don't have to go through onos. There is screening so can't blatantly do what appears to have been done in that story. However, it is possible to do (especially if had some long standing relationship the screening will be that much more easier and may need a bit more indirection on the flow of money; not legal to pay. ) . If it was a partial liver transplant that would be possible. However, if needed a whole liver... only got one.

[jaw04005]

CNN just posted a detailed article with lots of good information. Now, we don't know if this is in fact what Jobs did, but it's interesting nevertheless that you can be placed on multiple transplant centers' waiting lists.

"The reason that some people might be able to get transplants more quickly is that they're standing in more lines. Nothing prevents someone from being evaluated and listed at multiple transplant centers. As long as a patient has the wherewithal to fly around the country -- and be available at the drop of a hat if a liver becomes available (this is where the private jet comes in handy) -- a patient can, in theory, be evaluated by all the transplant centers in the country."

...

"Moreover, your insurance continues to be important during the evaluation process. The decision to accept a transplant candidate takes place before UNOS enters the picture, and the committees that determine whether a patient is added to the transplant center's waiting list have access to a patient's full medical and financial history."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/24/liver.transplant.priority.lists/index.html

[johnqh]

I feel for the guy/girl who WAS on top of the list before Jobs showed up. Hopefully they make a full recovery as well. Otherwise, Steve Jobs killed somebody.

According to you, everyone who received transplant was a bloody murderer, because he knocked the previous top of the list down (which knocked previous 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th...)

By the way, happy with your job? I hope the second most qualified candidate for your job are doing OK.

[gathart]

I never understand the american health care system, where people are treated on basis of there insurance and not there clinical need. I am starting to apreciate the nhs much more now. We gave aliver to an gifted but alcohol football player over here. Looking at mr jobs medical history i certainly think he deserved one. Here in England he would have received one for ... free!

[Shake 'n' Bake]

ummm...Shake and Bake never let's facts get in the way of a good sounding conspiracy statement pulled out his nether regions.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the closeness in time between when the iPhone3gS was announced and the announcement that Steve Jobs "got a new liver and is doing quite well, thank you."

It seems now that in addition to all the other amazing things the new iPhone 3gS is capable of doing, it also can raise a dying CEO off of his death bed. Let's see MicroSoft add that claim to it's Zune phone!

What facts do you have to back this up?

And you say that as a... ? Doctor? Nurse? Med-tech? Phlebotomist? HUC? Perhaps you work in medical records? On what are you basing your incorrect assertions?

I'm saying this as a member of society.

Yes, I am sure you were happy with the results of the hospital that refused to treat John Lennon first because he was a celebrity.

Why would you think that? I'm not happy with that at all. I think the person who is in need of care the most, famous or not, should get care first. But famous people usually, not always, get to go first. Not necessarily at the hospital, but anywhere they go.

[.:R2theT]

I imagine within several years we will see Jobs doing PSAs for organ donation.

I could also see him creating a foundation to help transplantees pay for the costs of the operation/recovery. They would also receive a free MacBookPro and iPhone.:D

[elmtreefilms]

This is nobody's business but Steve's and his family. I respect the man just as much as everyone else here, which is why it's none of my business. It's not like we're over his house once a month having dinner. The fact that the hospital released that information is twice as horrible. All of that said, I'm glad he's back and healthy. For his sake I hope the press will give him a rest for a little while. :mad:

[muskratboy]

The point is, this thread is only contributing to the misconceptions in organ and tissue donation. The real facts can be found at http://www.unos.org . Steve Jobs getting a liver transplant has raised awareness of transplantation but this thread is not helping it anymore.

dude, talk about shooting yourself in the foot. you are going about this in about the most ass-backwards way possible.

people won't go read your precious site because they don't want to. it's boring, doesn't affect them, and they just don't care.

you have an excellent teaching opportunity to help people understand the facts, and you are in a unique position to reach them.

this situation has made people aware, interested, and they can see this does affect them.

and to this you... act like a pompous jerk and tell people to stop talking about it. not really helping too much. the site is an excellent resource... but just because you have involvement in the concept does not make you king of transplants. LOTS of people are involved, so get over yourself.

lose the bad attitude and actually try to contribute. from this, it seems that transplants make people grumpy bastards. true?

my brother donated a kidney. it just wants me to tell people to sign up... not try to bitch them into submission.

and hey, mr. jobs could have just gone and bought one from a (soon to be killed for his organs) chinese prisoner... how does that fit into your "real facts?"

[jaw04005]

I could also see him creating a foundation to help transplantees pay for the costs of the operation/recovery. They would also receive a free MacBookPro and iPhone.:D

He should, but knowing how private he is — he won't. He doesn't even disclose his charitable donations (if he makes them).

The tech press has been after him for years about this. Here's a more recent article from Wired on the topic.

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/commentary/cultofmac/2006/01/70072

With that said, it's his money and he could do with it as he pleases. For all we know, he might be donating millions of dollars to charity each year anonymously.

[Shake 'n' Bake]

This is nobody's business but Steve's and his family. I respect the man just as much as everyone else here, which is why it's none of my business. It's not like we're over his house once a month having dinner. The fact that the hospital released that information is twice as horrible. All of that said, I'm glad he's back and healthy. For his sake I hope the press will give him a rest for a little while. :mad:

Steve gave his permission.

http://methodisthealth.org/methodist/About+Us/Newsroom/News/Steve+Jobs+Receives+Liver+Transplant

[.:R2theT]

With that said, it's his money and he could do with it as he pleases. For all we know, he might be donating millions of dollars to charity each year anonymously.

Which is the only way to truly give, at least according to Sufi tradition.

I know SJ is more of a Buddhist but I am sure it still holds true.

I could see the CSAs though. That's different. You can't get people to donate organs just by donating money. His face would go a long way to raising awareness.

[jlwillia]

Apple stock negatively correlates with Steve Jobs Health.
What other company is set up like this?

Don't you mean it positively correlates with Jobs' health? A positive correlation would mean that the stock price goes down as Jobs' health decreases and/or the stock goes up as his health increases.

You aren't suggesting that as Jobs gets sicker the stock price goes up and as he gets better the stock price goes down are you? That would be a negative correlation.

This recent news has caused stock prices to go down slightly, but I think thats because it confirms that he was sicker than originally thought. Steve's health decreased (in the eye of the public) and so did the stock price. Hence, a positive correlation.

[Tonezorz]

You should really re-think your argument.

Let's say Joe Smith gets on organ transplant. Did Joe Smith kill the person who was on top of the list before Joe showed up? What about anyone else getting a transplant?

If Joe Smith jumps to the top of the list, then yes.


According to you, everyone who received transplant was a bloody murderer, because he knocked the previous top of the list down (which knocked previous 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th...)

By the way, happy with your job? I hope the second most qualified candidate for your job are doing OK.

Whats the point of a waiting list if someone can just swoop into the top of it without... waiting?

[Full of Win]

I feel for the guy/girl who WAS on top of the list before Jobs showed up. Hopefully they make a full recovery as well. Otherwise, Steve Jobs killed somebody.

Bingo! anyone who thinks money and power play no role is full of it. A suitcase full of cash can make many things happen in life, including getting special treatment in the waiting list.

[davidbrummy]

Firstly I am gald Steve is doing well. Like anyone who has medical issues I wish them best in their recovery.

I think it is more than likely we will see Steve less and less in the day to day running of the company. He will become more like a figurehead who will be quoted on press releases.

As for the social commentry on if he jumped the queue well this is the US. If you put him against some one who had liver failure with no insurance I imagine he got first choice. I don't blame him as if I was him I would spend as much money as I could to better my health.

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Bingo! anyone who thinks money and power play no role is full of it. A suitcase full of cash can make many things happen in life, including getting special treatment in the waiting list.

Exactly. I should have put my argument more like this from the beginning.

Cash is king, and everybody knows that is true.

[deconstruct60]

You should really re-think your argument.

Let's say Joe Smith gets on organ transplant. Did Joe Smith kill the person who was on top of the list before Joe showed up? What about anyone else getting a transplant?

He needs to rethink how he has phrased the argument. "Kill" has the wrong connotation. Something like "is linked to the death of" is more accurate. Jobs did not cause that person to be at death's door. However, he certainly wouldn't have closed the door before that person got there. Frankly, if getting an organ from a dead body anyway, he has already been involved in a death to get the organ. Would be as imprecise to say he "killed" that person also. However, it is a similar "linked to". A notion that completely uninvolved in that other death isn't a good argument either. To kill is to cause the death of. Cause, no. In the causal chain of events leading to the death, yes.

[mahashel]

Putting "special treatment", "donor list-jumping", and "invasion of privacy" issues aside..
What captures my eye in this whole mess is the letter from Steve that was published back in January (linkity) (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49300453,00.htm) stating that he simply had a "nutritional problem". Was that a complete lie, or was his original diagnosis so utterly inaccurate that the "sophisticated blood tests" couldn't tell the difference between malnutrition & life-threatening liver disease?
Either way, AAPL stockholders have got to be annoyed. That letter directly affected how the market responded to the news of his health. (regardless of whether folks believe it's anyone's business how sick he is, the reality is that the market was hanging on his every word)
If the information in that letter was knowingly false then writing it will likely end up a catastrophic mistake on his part.

I'm a big fan of Steve's RDF.. however I sincerely doubt the SEC shares that sentiment.

[Dave00]

And, to the poster that noted HIPAA was being violated - The Wall Street Journal did that, but not the hospital since the press release was done with Steve's permission.
Actually, the press is not bound by HIPAA, so it is the WSJ's source, not the WSJ, who violated HIPAA (assuming it was done without permission.)

The fact that Steve had a bad MELD score adds a whole new wrinkle to the equation, and makes it much more likely that the information released prior to his leave of absence was deliberately deceptive. It was speculated that cancer spread had led to the transplant, which could explain an unplanned procedure. But this isn't part of the MELD score. To get a high MELD score, you have to have significant failure of the liver and/or kidney. This doesn't happen overnight generally. So, there was likely something going on that was not disclosed prior to his leave.

Nothing says you have to disclose your health history as a prominent figure in a company. But when you make a statement about your health, and it turns out that statement was misleading, there are a whole host of shareholder issues. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Regardless, I think everyone wishes Steve the best of health. He's truly one of the best innovators of the past 30 years and the world is a better place because he's here.

Dave

[studlybw]

and hey, mr. jobs could have just gone and bought one from a (soon to be killed for his organs) chinese prisoner... how does that fit into your "real facts?"

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. He was transplanted at Methodist University Hospital in Tennessee. Hospitals in the United States won't transplant any organs shipped from elsewhere, and it's illegal to get an organ shipped here anyway. Even if you could, a liver will only last about 24 hours outside of the body. That's why being on multiple waiting lists, like SJ was, helps. Geographical location of the donor to the hospital where the transplant would take place plays a large part in the allocation of organs.

Read all of the previous posts in which this discussion continued and some of what I said was retracted.


people won't go read your precious site because they don't want to. it's boring, doesn't affect them, and they just don't care.
For your sake, and the sake of anyone else who says it "doesn't affect them", let's hope that remains true. Neither myself nor anyone in my family thought it affected us until I was given 24 hours to live without a new liver. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone.

[deconstruct60]

Whats the point of a waiting list if someone can just swoop into the top of it without... waiting?

It isn't really a waiting list if you are trying to draw a comparison to waiting in line at the bank or at the Dept of Motor Vehicles or waiting for a Palm Pre on backorder.

It is a triage list. Which means sicker folks get inserted in front of other people. So yes, the risk of death for those less sick goes up so that those more sick have better odds. You increase the odds for one group, but slightly decreasing the odds for another. Hopefully, and done skillfully, a smaller decrease than increase.

Now often some aspects of triage are a subjective judgment call. Won't change a score of 15 to 22, but might change a 23 to 24 with reasonable justification.

And there are labs out there making hormones and stuff that does not show up on tests ( very high paid athletes wanting the "clear"). How hard is it going to be for similar folks to come up with stuff that does show up on tests? Did Jobs juice his score? Most likely not. Is it possible with a large wad of money and a network connections to do it. Most likely yes.

[florio]

so basically apple lied knowing that Jobs was possibly not going to make it back by june. What if he didn't get his liver and didn't have a transplant... they would have been f'ed.

[aprofetto]

I mean, I really don't want to start rumours here... but I heard that at the heart of Steve Jobs' new liver is a 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, can anyone confirm this?

[WestonHarvey1]

Man, this thread is goofy.

I am glad that Steve Jobs is okay. (Notice I said Steve Jobs and not Steve. We're not on a first name basis.) But I'm sure that Jobs doesn't really care that I'm glad.

He's not the friendliest guy. If you tried to talk to him in public, he would probably ignore you, or snap at you.

The creepiest comment I saw in the original liver thread was someone saying how cool it would be to have donated a piece of their liver to him and to know that it was inside of him.

Jobs is a fascinating character, but quit being weird.

[deconstruct60]

Actually, the press is not bound by HIPAA, so it is the WSJ's source, not the WSJ, who violated HIPAA (assuming it was done without permission.)


Source didn't have to violate HIPAA. Only the healtcare and providing staff are covered. Random Joe Blow walking down the hallway of the hospital who sees you coming out of the transplant doctors space is not covered by HIPAA. There are many people in a hospital who aren't employed directly or indirectly by the hospital. The staff is more likely to have the information, but they aren't the only ones. It is a lower probability. The hospital probably didn't make him sit in a crowded waiting room when it was time for tests.



But this isn't part of the MELD score. To get a high MELD score, you have to have significant failure of the liver and/or kidney. This doesn't happen overnight generally. So, there was likely something going on that was not disclosed prior to his leave.


Having a bad MELD score doesn't automatically get you put onto the transplant list. Someone who is sick can have a screwed up score. You don't opt for a transplant for a correctable condition.

The problem people face with the "he has to have been lying before" is that in order to answer that question folks would need fully access to all tests and all doctor conversations and all dates on only the diagnosis made. That's ridiculous. Nobody should have to release that to the public at all unless there is far more than a "investors or public" would like to know issue. Even if under suspicion still shouldn't be released to the public.







Regardless, I think everyone wishes Steve the best of health. He's truly one of the best innovators of the past 30 years and the world is a better place because he's here.

I think folks in general do wish him well. It is the amount of hyperbole though. "Best innovators" ? How about "one of the most famous innovators" in last 30 years. Or "most wealthy innovators" in last 30 years.

There are lots of folks who have won Nobel Prizes in Medicine and Physics over last 30 years who have deeper, longer lasting contributions to humankind than Jobs. Or the folks who came up with a technique to stretch liver viability from 8 to 24 hours. Or the folks who add the improvements so the relatively large computer that Woz and Jobs sold years ago is now effectively the size postage stamp. Or.... a very long list of stuff that most folks just take for granted. They just don't get a "just one more think" show splashed in the news 1 or 2 times a year.

Jobs needs Apple as a vehicle as more than Apple needs Jobs for all of this "he walks on water" credit he gets.

[mahashel]

I mean, I really don't want to start rumours here... but I heard that at the heart of Steve Jobs' new liver is a 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, can anyone confirm this?

I heard it was a G5 Macbook Pro, due next Tuesday. :p

[Glideslope]

So much for HIPAA!

Can you read? He signed a consent to release information. :apple:

[sachdizzle]

If Joe Smith jumps to the top of the list, then yes.




Whats the point of a waiting list if someone can just swoop into the top of it without... waiting?

lets put it this way, lets say person number one has been on the list for 1 year and person 2 for 2 months. lets assume they are both ranked 1 and 2 as well. not lets say person 2, while he has been on the list a shorter amount of time has a significantly higher risk of dying in the next 3 months. If you stick to the amount of time on the list then you disadvantage the sicker patient, and you then leave the door open for people being listed for the sake of getting more time on the list. there is an organ shortage, you need to sae the people who are going to die sooner, than the ones who have been listed "longer" its not perfect, but i think its better than just measuring time on the list

[queshy]

Face it. Steve Jobs. For all intent and purpose is a rock star. He was made that way by US. Yes. US. It is the Mac fanatic and sites like MR that has made him this way so get over it.

I'm glad his prognosis is excellent. Officially.

Yeah, I'm glad too, but as I said, it really is none of our business. He's still human, you know.

[AMessy]

Best wishes to Steve for a speedy recovery and many thanks to the families of organ donors, you never know when you will need the gift of life from a complete stranger who just lost theirs.

[iphones4evry1]

This article explains the reason that Steve Jobs most-likely received the organ transplant, as a result of conversations with professional organ transplant surgeons. All of you can stop speculating on your own now. At least read this article first. In summary, Steve Jobs basically had to wait on a waiting list just like everyone else; however, he was able to sign up on waiting lists in populated metropolitan cities, where the rate of available organs is higher, and because Steve had the financial ability to either own his own private jet or else be able to afford a chartered jet, he was able to quickly fly to whichever city his name came up on the list first in. Most people do not have that ability because they do not own their own jet or cannot afford a chartered jet.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090624/ap_on_hi_te/us_med_apple_jobs_transplant

[annk]

This thread has caused way too much work (deleting of off-topic posts / derailed discussion of the OT), so I'm closing it. I think the posters who've had relevant comments have had time to say what they've wanted to say.