ST: Enterprise Season 3 Finale

[CMillerERAU]

Hey everyone, just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on the season finale of Enterprise tonight. I'm not so much interested in a general discussion on the series but more just how they ended it. WARNING: I'm assuming everyone here has seen it so feel free to spoil all you want!

That said, I really don't know what to say about ending with them in WWII. For one thing how did the team attacking the weapon AND Enterprise go back to the same time? Its not like both ships could have gone through mysterious wormholes or anything. It seems like Earth itself might have gone back in time and the rest of the galaxy be the same.

Well besides the technical aspets of it, this is smelling awfully like Battlestar Galactica where they go through time once they find Earth; complete cheeseball. I guess we can't completely pass judgement until the new seasons starts and we see where they go with it. Here's hoping they can pull it together. Season 3 was a great turnaround and thankfully it saved their butts for one more season. Lets just hope they don't throw it all away with a silly time traveling bit back to the 20th century.

[iAmAzN]

who was that weird alien guy that was there at the end?

Yeah, I think earth is the only thing that was thrown into the past because the Aquatics were there when they released enterprise. Interesting.

[Doctor Q]

Some of us haven't seen it yet. 10 minutes to go until it starts.

[bousozoku]

who was that weird alien guy that was there at the end?

Yeah, I think earth is the only thing that was thrown into the past because the Aquatics were there when they released enterprise. Interesting.

Looked like Angel meets Enterprise.

Well, the business about the spheres not being found and their effects missing would somewhat say that everyone involved had been moved into the past. The expanse was not repaired--it was never affected.

It looks like the whole theme is flip-flopping between centuries. Where's Q? :D

[iAmAzN]

Where's Q? :D

interesting question :eek:

[legion]

interesting question :eek:
Q is first met with the original Star Trek Enterprise (Shatner, etc) meets the ends of the Universe (supposedly there was a great void outside of that edge.) Since this Enterprise predates that Enterprise, they can't meet Q.

[Doctor Q]

The crew's passage through time must have something to do with Captain Archer not heeding the time traveler's warning to send someone else to disarm the weapon, so that Archer can survive to help found the Federation. He went and got himself killed (at least in the timeline we were watching), so perhaps the time traveler sent everyone into the past because that's the best he could do to save them.

A few dumb things about the end of the season:

1. Hoshi is a linguist. Since when does that talent also make somebody qualified as a cryptographer?

2. The multi-race Zindi civilization has the ability to build a great weapon. And all they can call it is "the weapon"? What a lack of imagination!

3. When the transdimensional beings try to disrupt power on Enterprise, does it kill the circuits? No, it "reduces power by 10%". That's the best they can think of to stop Enterprise? Duh, fellows, how 'bout zapping the crew on the bridge who are actually running the ship? I guess they didn't think of that.

[Thanatoast]

yeah, there were a few times when i had to work to suspend my disbelief. like mentioned above, that transdimensional aliens couldn't destroy enterprise in less than thirty seconds was pretty unbelievable. and that the crew recovered from the skin-melting effects of the space-wobbly place in like ten minutes, but that's just nit-picky.

as for the time travel, i think only archer did it, thus accidentally changing the timeline and stunting our development. so we'll probably find that the nazis have been ruling earth for the last two hundred years.

the other big thing i couldn't get around is that earth had an entire year to prepare for this weapon they knew was coming, yet they couldn't manage to scrape up a single ship to defend the planet? come on now...

[Westside guy]

Yeah I wondered where the other ships were as well. After all, there were supposed to be other ships almost ready to head out and explore during seasons 1 and 2 - what happened to them?

But I don't think they went back in time (although I did at first). My guess is either the sphere-builders or that original bad guy (Romulan?) time traveler have pursued an alternate plan where they affected earth's past, blah blah blah...

I did think it was pretty cool that the Andorians showed up again; and I liked the method Archer used to eliminate the Xindi reptilian general. :D

I also have enjoyed having a season-long storyline; I hope that continues.

[Savage Henry]

The crew's passage through time must have something to do with Captain Archer not heeding the time traveler's warning to send someone else to disarm the weapon, so that Archer can survive to help found the Federation. He went and got himself killed (at least in the timeline we were watching), so perhaps the time traveler sent everyone into the past because that's the best he could do to save them.

A few dumb things about the end of the season:

1. Hoshi is a linguist. Since when does that talent also make somebody qualified as a cryptographer?

2. The multi-race Zindi civilization has the ability to build a great weapon. And all they can call it is "the weapon"? What a lack of imagination!

3. When the transdimensional beings try to disrupt power on Enterprise, does it kill the circuits? No, it "reduces power by 10%". That's the best they can think of to stop Enterprise? Duh, fellows, how 'bout zapping the crew on the bridge who are actually running the ship? I guess they didn't think of that.


Be fair, it can't be the first time that an episode of ST has suffered a bit with logic and rationality for the convenience of the 'plot'. To paraphrase what I have been berated many times before, you must accept that it's science-fiction ... and put your brain on hold.

;)

[BornAgainMac]

2. The multi-race Zindi civilization has the ability to build a great weapon. And all they can call it is "the weapon"? What a lack of imagination!


The Death Star was already taken.

[Doctor Q]

To paraphrase what I have been berated many times before, you must accept that it's science-fiction ... and put your brain on hold.Sorry, I thought Star Trek was a documentary.

Even though it's fiction, the show is more enjoyable when they do a good job of making the characters and plot consistent and adding a realistic dialog and effects to their fake science. One of my favorite Next Generation moments was when a crew member goes through a hole in the side of the ship. Somebody says "he was sucked out" and Data corrects him, "No, he was blown out". Excellent attention to detail!

[CMillerERAU]

as for the time travel, i think only archer did it, thus accidentally changing the timeline and stunting our development. so we'll probably find that the nazis have been ruling earth for the last two hundred years.

That's a possible outcome but then why would everyone be wearing 1940's clothing and flying P-51's (an allied aircraft no less) 200 years in the future? Its quite plausable that technology would advance if the Nazi's ruled the world for 200 years though more likely humanity would either collapse or be something entirely different than how we know it today. But I'll leave that little trinket of political science up to another forum.

A friend of mine had an interesting thought today. What if Rick Berman and the like was completely convinced that UPN was going to cancel Enterprise. To go out with a bang they devise the most rediculous plot imagineable for the last episode where Enterprise goes back to 1943. However, now that they are indeed going for a 4th season they now have to write their way out of a very bad plot twist. I found it rather ammusing to think that this was all a sabotage gone wrong. Somehow it brings back memories of "The Producers".

[Doctor Q]

There were a few episodes of the original Star Trek series where Kirk and friends went back in time. Was one of them to the 1940s? If so, maybe the Archer Enterprise crew will bump into the future Kirk Enterprise crew. Although the word "future" might be hard to define in this context.

[CMillerERAU]

There were a few episodes of the original Star Trek series where Kirk and friends went back in time. Was one of them to the 1940s? If so, maybe the Archer Enterprise crew will bump into the future Kirk Enterprise crew. Although the word "future" might be hard to define in this context.

I can see them doing something akin to the DS9 episode based on the Tribbles episode in the original series. But then again it would probably look like they were rehashing an old idea. Regardless I'm very interested to see how this works out in the fall.

[Sun Baked]

Almost seems like the alien changed the timeline if there was dogfighting on San Fransisco.

[JesseJames]

You know I don't watch the show but I was flipping channels when I saw 2 P-51 Mustangs go zooming across my TV screen. Being the aviation buff that I am I thought cool, some WWII aerial action.
But then I see that it's Star Trek and flip the channel. Commercials, commercials, commercials on the other channels so I flip back and I hear German, and I see Nazis. I thought - weird storyline.
Then I see them talking about some guys uniform and then from out of the shadows I see some alien walk forth wearing a Nazi uniform. Pretty freaky.
But it makes sense.
It's well known that Hitler dabbled in the occult and I guess the writers are capitalizing on that.

[Krizoitz]

Somebody says "he was sucked out" and Data corrects him, "No, he was blown out". Excellent attention to detail!

Ugh, this is one of those annoying things people say when they are trying to show how smart they are. Technically if you go with the most basic physics argument you are being pushed out, but everyone has accepted that sucked out is an appropriate description. Its the same as when you say you need to go buy some lead for your mechanical pencil and some anal retentive person says "its not lead its graphite". Yes yes we all know what it technically is, but still. Sigh, some people just love to show off.

[bousozoku]

Ugh, this is one of those annoying things people say when they are trying to show how smart they are. Technically if you go with the most basic physics argument you are being pushed out, but everyone has accepted that sucked out is an appropriate description. Its the same as when you say you need to go buy some lead for your mechanical pencil and some anal retentive person says "its not lead its graphite". Yes yes we all know what it technically is, but still. Sigh, some people just love to show off.

Technically, it is "It's not lead, it's graphite." :D

[000111one111000]

What I was thinking that happened was that when the weapon was destroyed, maybe it distorted space-time in that area of space, maybe creating a pocket of space that's further back in time. That'd explain it a bit, but not really.

And nobody said "the stars are in the wrong place" when they got back to Earth. Maybe they just didn't say it, or maybe the entire timeline has been affected and they're still in the 22nd century, but Earth is in some sort of "loop" or something.

I'm sure it's probably just all because of the Temporal Cold War. I remember Berman saying in an interview that they were going to go back to the TCW next season.

And then, who is the alien in the Nazi camp? A bunch of people are saying he's a Reman, but I personally don't think he looks anything like them. But I swear I've seen that alien before.


enoch

[Sun Baked]

Technically, it is "It's not lead, it's graphite." :D
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12945&stc=1

[Savage Henry]

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12945&stc=1

Althought I did laugh at that out loud, I feel it seems like I dragged the good Doctor Q into an Us versus Them, sorry Doctor. Obviously bousozoku has just complicated it with his remark into an Us versus Them against The Other Lot. ;)

So I'd like to offer a peace offering to the Trekkie Techies (my wife is one, so I have to, and she is well looking forward to the final Enterprise episode), at the moment it is the most intelligent and engaging science fiction on telly.

It just doesn't float my boat, that's all.

[Links]

Since suspending one's belief in the laws of physics seems
to be a requirement in order to enjoy these "TV space operas"
I would just like to point out that Joss Whedon's "Firefly"
was the only one of this genre that followed the simple
law of "no air" = "no sound". I don't mean to put any sound
designers out of work, but, explosions and space craft don't
make any sound in space, you need air to propagate sound
waves.

[Krizoitz]

Since suspending one's belief in the laws of physics seems
to be a requirement in order to enjoy these "TV space operas"
I would just like to point out that Joss Whedon's "Firefly"
was the only one of this genre that followed the simple
law of "no air" = "no sound". I don't mean to put any sound
designers out of work, but, explosions and space craft don't
make any sound in space, you need air to propagate sound
waves.

Yes but those are there for dramatic effect.

[Krizoitz]

at the moment it is the most intelligent and engaging science fiction on telly.

What about Stargate SG-1?

[Westside guy]

I had a boss who claimed he couldn't enjoy Star Wars - the original series, you know, the GOOD ones :D - because when the death star exploded there was all this flame and smoke. Which, of course, wouldn't occur in space! (No there's not that much air in the death star)

I figure people who take this sort of thing THAT seriously really need to be forced to pursue some real-world activity (gardening, hiking, anything that brings them face to face with reality). Or else just smile, nod, and slowly back away from them... It's just entertainment, for goodness sake!

[Sun Baked]

I had a boss who claimed he couldn't enjoy Star Wars - the original series, you know, the GOOD ones :D - because when the death star exploded there was all this flame and smoke. Which, of course, wouldn't occur in space! (No there's not that much air in the death star)And he probably doesn't think twice about an exploding Pinto taking out half a block when it's rear ended in the movies. :rolleyes:

aka, like any movie explosion sweetened by a diesel fireball, is remotely realistic.

[ClimbingTheLog]

He went and got himself killed (at least in the timeline we were watching)

We never saw him die - most likely Future Boy with the Big Ass pulled him out just in the nick of Star Trek time.

1. Hoshi is a linguist. Since when does that talent also make somebody qualified as a cryptographer?

Aside from the fact that future ciphers are not going to be decipherable by humans and that quantum encryption will probably make deciphering a moot point, figuring out new languages is making sense out of patterns hidden in data, which is sort of what cryptanalysis is. Of course they don't have a cryptographer on board, so Hoshi has to do. Of course, I thought they had subspace radios too, and you'd think StarFleet might have one or two around.

[ClimbingTheLog]

the other big thing i couldn't get around is that earth had an entire year to prepare for this weapon they knew was coming, yet they couldn't manage to scrape up a single ship to defend the planet? come on now...

I was expecting Babylon-5 style orbital defense stations, at least. Sure Enterprise was the first Warp 5 vessel, but they had plenty of time to build intrasystem flight vessels between Cochran and Enterprise.

Let's assume that they were parked where the big assed beam cut a hole through Florida last year, otherwise we have to accept that Future Earth is entirely populated by decendants of John Kerry.

[ClimbingTheLog]

There were a few episodes of the original Star Trek series where Kirk and friends went back in time. Was one of them to the 1940s? If so, maybe the Archer Enterprise crew will bump into the future Kirk Enterprise crew. Although the word "future" might be hard to define in this context.

You're thinking of "The City on the Edge of Forever", which while among the Top 5 Trek of All Time, took place in the 1930's.