iTunes Europe Next Month?

[MacRumors]

According to a Reuters report (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040527/media_sony_1.html), Apple may be ready to launch their iTunes Music Store for Europe as early as next month.

The article discusses Sony's ongoing efforts to launch their European music store ahead of Apple.

Their sources indicate that Apple may have the necessary licensing contracts by the middle of next month.

This is consistent with previous reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/05/20040513060402.shtml) that also claimed a 1.29 Euro price tag for these songs.

[Shagrat]

About bloody time!

Yay, first ever first post!

[Mustafa]

Yeah, right. We'll believe it when we see it.

Too many false dawns. Just tell us when it's launched.

[virividox]

about time!!!

[javabear90]

nice.... very nice.....

[cdburrows]

still wondering what will happen in the UK... will we be paying in Euro? with constantly changing rates or what ? :confused:

[Trimix]

can you imagine, how many songs that would add to the count in the first week ? my list has now over 140 songs, i want to download. if they announce the g5 i-mac at WWDC, then june will be an extremely expensive month for me :D

[JFreak]

cool! i just hope apple could make the 0.99eur per song price point happen...

[vollspacken]

no frikken way am I gonna buy music online at that price!!!

I predict a colossal failure - thank you music industrie, here's a shovel, dig your own grave...

vSpacken

[dekator]

But I don't care. I wouldn't buy a DRMed song for €1.29, so it's all the same to me. Maybe it would get interesting if they have some stuff I can't get on CD... but wait... 128kbps AAC? Forget it.

[Stike]

I wonder if the price will really turn out to be 1.29... thats quite a difference. Let´s see if the albums are more expensive also.

[Wendy_Rebecca]

According to a Reuters report (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040527/media_sony_1.html), Apple may be ready to launch their iTunes Music Store for Europe as early as next month.

Well isn't that just lovely? Napster already beat them to the punch in Europe, and now in Canada, too! (http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/arts/story.html?id=4a961946-b906-42e9-8028-d493e66861fd)

What's wrong with Apple? Why are they behind the 8-ball on this one?

[Vanilla]

no frikken way am I gonna buy music online at that price!!!

I predict a colossal failure - thank you music industrie, here's a shovel, dig your own grave...

vSpacken

Assuming of course that you don’t believe in digital theft what do you perceive to be reasonable remuneration for the Artist who actually created the music, for the Record Company that invests in the artist to pay for the music producers, production engineers, promotion, marketing, CD production & distribution, tour organisation etc. etc. and finally for Apple themselves to get a return on the investment of creating iTunes in the first place and negotiating all the contracts to make this feature happen?

Frankly in my opinion EURO 1.29 per track is very reasonable. If you consistently download entire albums by all means go and buy the CD, I am sure you can find great deals out there. But for the purchase of individual tracks of interest, particularly from back catalogues, this is NOT expensive. It’s also LEGAL.

Over time maybe artists will bypass Record Companies and sell direct to us, maybe co-operatives of bands with common ideals will setup their own online vehicles, who knows, but until the concept of paying for online music as well as physical CD’s is well established and accepted we have not got a hope in hell of transforming the industry.

Vanilla

[~Shard~]

Let's hope this is true, and is the start of more international iTMS starting up all over the world (yah, I know, easier said than done).

But I do have the same opinions as previous posters - let's not forget about actually building computers, Apple! When were the last PowerMac and iMac updates?!? Lately all it seems to be is updated iTunes, commericals for the iPods, iPod minis, now Europe iTMS. I'm all for the music-related things, but Apple does seem to be focusing a fair bit on it these days, and not as much on their main systems. That being said, I suppose we have seen eMac, iBook and PowerBook updates too, recently... but I'd definitely like to see more G5-related news and updates.

[JFreak]

128kbps AAC? Forget it.

that is "decent" quality. that has been discussed many times and i can live with that, even if i listen to the 128kbps aac files through the high-end shure E5 headphones (reference quality monitors actually).

but since (compared to a physical cd) the drm'ed aac file:
- is worse than cd quality
- as drm'ed file has less freedom of use
- has less (none!) cover art
- has less (none!) resell value

these points in mind the price will also have to be less than a physical cd to make the itms europe a success. i believe the average cd price - tax included - is somewhere near 15eur and the average cd track count about 12 tracks per cd. so in average we pay 1.25eur per song when buying physical cd:s.

itms offers less than a cd purchase. the price MUST be less than 1.25eur. and i'd say, more than 0.99eur per song and it will fail.

of course, i'd be happy if the hit singles would be priced higher if the rest would be cheaper. but in us itms the selling point has been "0.99 dollars per song, any song" so i think apple wants to make the same selling point in europe as well.

0.99eur per song and i'll buy some instantly :) more than that, i might buy one just to be able to say i have done it.

[claughery]

Does this raise the possibility of the 4g ipod intro???

[Stike]

Other German services already offer songs at 0.99 €.
They even work on the Mac, although they have WMA. Apple has to compete with those. If they are more expenisve, I´d say screw online shopping.

[PolarbearTed]

People were saying that Apple's ITMS US would be a failure too, but there is a market for people who want to purchase music online even if it has DRM attached.

As for people complaining about Apple neglecting machines, it's a sign of it's diversification as a company that once wholly and solely made software and macs; to a company that has the number one most lusted after MP3 Player and one of the largest Digital Music Services.

Apple has to move into the consumer electronics arena to survive. And that has been echoed by many a industry analyst, even though some are calling for Apple to abandon the Mac altogether. (which I pray and doubt!!)

[edenwaith]

Forget it! I refuse to pay 1.29 Euros per song! Instead, I'll pay 99 cents. :) Oh, when does Canada get their on-line music store?

[CmdrLaForge]

Why is this cool ? Haven't you seen the price tag ? 1.29 Euro is just freakin too much.

I doubt that we will see a similar success as in the states. Not that it will a complete failure, but really not that successful as it could be.

For me its too expensive. I will buy my CDs in the store except I just want ONE special song. (must be very special)

[edenwaith]

And that has been echoed by many a industry analyst, even though some are calling for Apple to abandon the Mac altogether. (which I pray and doubt!!)

...and those same analysts also predicted that Microsoft would quit producing Windows and instead concentrate solely on the XBox.

[Zaty]

Cool bring it on! As for the price I would think that it will vary from country to country because of the different VAT rates.

[eric67]

According to a Reuters report (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040527/media_sony_1.html), Apple may be ready to launch their iTunes Music Store for Europe as early as next month.

The article discusses Sony's ongoing efforts to launch their European music store ahead of Apple.

Their sources indicate that Apple may have the necessary licensing contracts by the middle of next month.

This is consistent with previous reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/05/20040513060402.shtml) that also claimed a 1.29 Euro price tag for these songs.

Yesterday, I was submitting to macrumors.com that the Press conference planned by Apple for the May 18th will actually correspond to the launch date of Europe iTMS, as claims by croquer.free.fr
now reuters reports that Apple is ready and has collected all the licence/rights to (finally) launch iTMS Europe...lovely...
those two info correlates quite well.
the only problem being the stupid price...1.29Euro...I mean really...that sucks major; and majors suck...
They are really afraid of Apple iTMS in europe, in the US, they did not believe that it will be a success, and when it turned out that iTMS was a real hit, then they could not come back and ask for increasing the price per track...
now back in Europe, they want to protect their ass and why not getting money from the european consumers...I mean 1 euro=1.2 US$, and we will have to pay 1.29 Euro/track...in other words around 1.5US$ /track...what the hell is going on here...Apple should really not go into such a deal, because it is a dead project from the beginning...f*@#$& majors, they do not want competition...

[johnnyjibbs]

But at least the €1.29 includes sales tax (which is around 15-20%, higher than the US) so, it's not so bad. We generally always get screwed in Europe. I expect the UK price will be 79p per download. That's fine by me. To be honest, 99p a song is still good value in my book. It's better than buying a single (with the hassle of importing it and a crappy CD case you never look at) for £3.99 ($7).

I'm just praying that they unleash the US store catologue - and not just some limited thing with about 100 000 songs. There are lots of things on the US store that I like the look of but can't buy in the shops.

[Veldek]

Yesterday, I was submitting to macrumors.com that the Press conference planned by Apple for the May 18th will actually correspond to the launch date of Europe iTMS, as claims by croquer.free.fr
now reuters reports that Apple is ready and has collected all the licence/rights to (finally) launch iTMS Europe...lovely...
those two info correlates quite well.

You are aware that May, 18th is already over and was said to bring new Power Macs not iTMS Europe, aren’t you?

[Stella]

Canada?!!

Are you telling me that Apple can't multitask?

[Stella]

Can people stop *moaning* about the Euro and US$ exchange range when it comes to music pricing.

Europeans are NOT buying their online music from US based music companies... but from the European based music companies... Europe pays far more for music than the US does, and that isn't based on exchange rate.

SOOOO why on earth do you think your going to get the US equivilent prices on iTMS?!!!!!???? yes its iTMS, but it makes no difference.. do you complain that you don't get straight $US to Euro when you buy a CD from Sony Music? No.





Yesterday, I was submitting to macrumors.com that the Press conference planned by Apple for the May 18th will actually correspond to the launch date of Europe iTMS, as claims by croquer.free.fr
now reuters reports that Apple is ready and has collected all the licence/rights to (finally) launch iTMS Europe...lovely...
those two info correlates quite well.
the only problem being the stupid price...1.29Euro...I mean really...that sucks major; and majors suck...
They are really afraid of Apple iTMS in europe, in the US, they did not believe that it will be a success, and when it turned out that iTMS was a real hit, then they could not come back and ask for increasing the price per track...
now back in Europe, they want to protect their ass and why not getting money from the european consumers...I mean 1 euro=1.2 US$, and we will have to pay 1.29 Euro/track...in other words around 1.5US$ /track...what the hell is going on here...Apple should really not go into such a deal, because it is a dead project from the beginning...f*@#$& majors, they do not want competition...

[Savage Henry]

still wondering what will happen in the UK... will we be paying in Euro? with constantly changing rates or what ? :confused:

You can only pay by credit card, and those companies have their own rates at which they will charge you irrespective of where you are domiciled.

You've also got to remember that a significant number of Apple's customers are already using the Euro, so rate changes will mean squat to them.

[Windowlicker]

can't say i'm too impressed with the price tag of 1.29e/song, but i sure am glad if the service will indeed launch in europe next month.. so voting positive on this.

[Stike]

Can people stop *moaning* about the Euro and US$ exchange range when it comes to music pricing.
I am not complaining about the conversion rate - I just hope that Apple can offer the songs at the same price that OTHER EU COMPETITORS are offering.

And this price is 99 cent.
Yes, in Germany.
Yes, including tax.

[NOV]

Yesterday, I was submitting to macrumors.com that the Press conference planned by Apple for the May 18th will actually correspond to the launch date of Europe iTMS, as claims by croquer.free.fr

are we talking 2005 here :rolleyes:

[TheT]

Can people stop *moaning* about the Euro and US$ exchange range when it comes to music pricing.

Europeans are NOT buying their online music from US based music companies... but from the European based music companies... Europe pays far more for music than the US does, and that isn't based on exchange rate.

SOOOO why on earth do you think your going to get the US equivilent prices on iTMS?!!!!!???? yes its iTMS, but it makes no difference.. do you complain that you don't get straight $US to Euro when you buy a CD from Sony Music? No.
The point is: go to amazon.de, amazon.fr, amzon.uk or whatever... here in Germany, you will find most new releases at 12,99€, old ones for as low as 7,99€ (that is, per album). Now look at the 1,29€ price-tag. In the US, it's 0,99$ a track, 9,99$ an album (at the lowest, we know that has changed)... most likely, an album will be 12,99€. Oh, wait, didn't we see that price before? Yes, on amazon.xx, for a physical objekt, with booklet and lyrics, superior quality, no DRM... I know which one I prefer.

[Savage Henry]

do you complain that you don't get straight $US to Euro when you buy a CD from Sony Music? No.


Sadly, over here people actully do make those complaints :confused:

Personally I don't, but I think that's because I've been blessed with a reasonable grip on reality. ;)

[pkradd]

Come on. Costs for regular CDs are usually higher in the E.U. However, in many instances for catalogue material E.U. CDs contain more songs then the U.S. counterpart. Also recordings up through 1953 are now in the public domain in the E.U. Neither artists or their heirs get money from the sale. Only music publishers still get paid (if the song hasn't gone into the public domain). An example. You can obtain a Frank Sinatra CD from the original copyright holder, Columbia (Sony) or get a similar version of the album from a re-issue company. That company doesn't pay Columbia (Sony) any fees for using the music. They simply have to obtain the recording from an original source (old LP, 78rpm or 45 rpm) record and put it on the new CD. Usually the sound quality is not as good, but the price is much lower. If iTMS uses these lower-priced but inferior versions of the recordings would you buy them? It's a problem that I believe Apple will circumvent by simply not going to the reissue labels but sticking to the original labels where the quality of the recordings are superior.

One other thing. There were reports a few weeks ago that Apple was secretly testing the iTMS in Europe.

[eric67]

You are aware that May, 18th is already over and was said to bring new Power Macs not iTMS Europe, aren’t you?
Sorry, I meant of course June 18th

[eric67]

Can people stop *moaning* about the Euro and US$ exchange range when it comes to music pricing.

Europeans are NOT buying their online music from US based music companies... but from the European based music companies... Europe pays far more for music than the US does, and that isn't based on exchange rate.

SOOOO why on earth do you think your going to get the US equivilent prices on iTMS?!!!!!???? yes its iTMS, but it makes no difference.. do you complain that you don't get straight $US to Euro when you buy a CD from Sony Music? No.
I really think that you forgot that most of the Music Major are NOT american...and lot of them are European (Universal Music, EMI, ...)
so why should we pay big price in Europe??
at 1.29 Euro/track the price difference between a full album from iTMS and a standard CD album is small, really small...
the only advantage of iTMS is that you can play it on a computer and transfer it to your iPod...something which will become more and more difficult with the proctected music CD.

[nsb3000]

According to a Reuters report (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040527/media_sony_1.html), Apple may be ready to launch their iTunes Music Store for Europe as early as next month.

The article discusses Sony's ongoing efforts to launch their European music store ahead of Apple.

Their sources indicate that Apple may have the necessary licensing contracts by the middle of next month.

This is consistent with previous reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/05/20040513060402.shtml) that also claimed a 1.29 Euro price tag for these songs.

!.29 is really expensive, giveing that the Euro is worth more than the dollar, not less.

[Stella]

Sorry, my previous post wasn't aimed at you.. I just clicked Quote and forgot to remove the quoted text.


I am not complaining about the conversion rate - I just hope that Apple can offer the songs at the same price that OTHER EU COMPETITORS are offering.

And this price is 99 cent.
Yes, in Germany.
Yes, including tax.

[Macmaniac]

All that matters to me is that Apple release iTMS for Europe soon, and have an ad blitz that follows, Also Apple needs to Get Canada ITMS, its just unacceptable that other companies are beating Apple to Canada.

[Stella]

You really didn't get my point -at no stage did I suggest what companies where what nationality (which is irrevelent for iTMS anyway), so I shall say it again.

Americans buy their music from music companies based in the States... Europeans buy their music companies based in Europe...

Why then on iTMS would you expect Europeans to buy music that is based on straight forward currency conversion from the US dollar.... like what people are saying..

When you buy CDs, you buy at the locally set price... so why would you expect anything different from iTMS - it will never be a straight conversion from dollar to Euro... and no one should have ever expected it.

Clearer?

I really think that you forgot that most of the Music Major are NOT american...and lot of them are European (Universal Music, EMI, ...)
so why should we pay big price in Europe??
at 1.29 Euro/track the price difference between a full album from iTMS and a standard CD album is small, really small...
the only advantage of iTMS is that you can play it on a computer and transfer it to your iPod...something which will become more and more difficult with the proctected music CD.

[JFreak]

But at least the €1.29 includes sales tax (which is around 15-20%, higher than the US) so, it's not so bad.

haven't i done the math a million times already? ok, once more. and this math ASSUMES that everyone will play fair, in other words, that both the record companies and our beloved apple are satisfied for having the same amount of money from europeans as they are satisfied for having from americans. that means simply that the taxfree us price can be converted into euros and add tax to it.

so here it goes. 0.99 dollars equals 0.825 euros. that should be the european taxfree price. let's say that ON AVERAGE we have a 20% sales tax (value added tax as they call it), that puts the final price at 0.99 euros.

to summarize and to repeat myself: everything above 0.99 euros per song is highway robbery. probably pure greed on behalf of the record companies.

or apple.

[cdburrows]

Napster UK have only had radio talk and tabloid newspapers interest...

Now when iTunes reaches Europe's shores they need to make a big splash, talking full ad campaign on t.v., radio, and print... ;)

Apple often fails to pursue an AD campaign fully especially in the UK, a few ads every now and again is a waste of money... Come On! Spend some $/£/€!!!!!! thats what it takes - you know i am really surprised that anyone in the UK recognises the iPod... in fact the only reason people know anything about it is due to music videos >> then magazines caught it >>> then the general public began to become aware of its existance!!! :rolleyes:

[macridah]

Finally. Don't let other wannabe's beat us to a market. Even though we're a week or month late, we'll still take over.

[nsb3000]

Napster UK have only had radio talk and tabloid newspapers interest...

Now when iTunes reaches Europe's shores they need to make a big splash, talking full ad campaign on t.v., radio, and print... ;)

Apple often fails to pursue an AD campaign fully especially in the UK, a few ads every now and again is a waste of money... Come On! Spend some $/£/€!!!!!! thats what it takes - you know i am really surprised that anyone in the UK recognises the iPod... in fact the only reason people know anything about it is due to music videos >> then magazines caught it >>> then the general public began to become aware of its existance!!! :rolleyes:

I agree on this point. Apple could certainly benefit from investing more in advertising.

[nsb3000]

still wondering what will happen in the UK... will we be paying in Euro? with constantly changing rates or what ? :confused:
This is a good question given that the UK still (stupidly in my opinion) insists on using the pound. I bet they will just establish a second pricing structure for the UK.

[eric67]

You really didn't get my point -at no stage did I suggest what companies where what nationality (which is irrevelent for iTMS anyway), so I shall say it again.

Americans buy their music from music companies based in the States... Europeans buy their music companies based in Europe...

Why then on iTMS would you expect Europeans to buy music that is based on straight forward currency conversion from the US dollar.... like what people are saying..

When you buy CDs, you buy at the locally set price... so why would you expect anything different from iTMS - it will never be a straight conversion from dollar to Euro... and no one should have ever expected it.

Clearer?

correct, except that marketing wise it would be better to sell 0.99Euro/track, knowing that with such a price, it will already be 20% more expensive than in the US, which is usually what we see when co;paring the pruice between US and Europe for different goods... do you understand my point now??
eventhough Euro is stronger than the US$, we usually see 20% in euro for a graphic card 9for example
0 when compared to US price, and this is mainly due to VAT which is really high in Europe...

[eric67]

haven't i done the math a million times already? ok, once more. and this math ASSUMES that everyone will play fair, in other words, that both the record companies and our beloved apple are satisfied for having the same amount of money from europeans as they are satisfied for having from americans. that means simply that the taxfree us price can be converted into euros and add tax to it.

so here it goes. 0.99 dollars equals 0.825 euros. that should be the european taxfree price. let's say that ON AVERAGE we have a 20% sales tax (value added tax as they call it), that puts the final price at 0.99 euros.

to summarize and to repeat myself: everything above 0.99 euros per song is highway robbery. probably pure greed on behalf of the record companies.

or apple.

if 1.29 euro/track, than it is definitely not going to apple's pocket but rather to the music majors pockets...probably to cover the smaller margin they make with the Us iTMS...

[Shagrat]

do you complain that you don't get straight $US to Euro when you buy a CD from Sony Music? No.

Actually we do. This has been a complaint over here in Europe for quite some time. It used to be easy just to blame the record companies. All of them, not just Sony. Now the waters are somewhat murkier, that's all.
Time and time again, EVEN WHEN VAT RATES are taken into account, we pay over the odds for many things, compared with the States. So as we are just downloading the same files you migh possibly see why we tend to get irritated when it looks like it will cost us noticeably more for the "privilege"

[Windowlicker]

Why is this cool ? Haven't you seen the price tag ? 1.29 Euro is just freakin too much.

I doubt that we will see a similar success as in the states. Not that it will a complete failure, but really not that successful as it could be.

indeed. what we have to look into right now is the fact that in europe apple isn't even near to the popularity it has in the states. if every tenth (?) computer in US is an apple, in europe the same number is somewhere in 1/50 i think.

i believe macintosh users are much more likely to buy music from the itms than pc users (because most pc users still seem to think apple sucks). hence, the service will be a failure if it comes with a price tag of 1.29e a track (tax included).

[srobert]

Here is a comparative table of how much a single track sells for on average online. (Currency conversions as at 05/27/04)


US ....... $0.99 ....... (0.99 USD) [iTMS, Napster]
UK ....... £1.09 ....... (2.00 USD) [Napster]
CAN ..... $1.19 ....... (0.88 USD) [Napster]
EUR ..... 1.29 Euro .. (1.58 USD) [Rumored iTMS]

About Value:

Best selling track from iTMS this week: The Reason (Hoobastank)
Best selling some comes from this album: The Reason

Price of this album on Amazon (US): $10.99 USD
Price of this album on amazon (UK): $ 22.02 USD (£11.99)
Price of this album on Amazon (CAN): $11.05 USD ($14.99 CAN)
Price of this album on Amazon (FR): $23.46 USD (19.12 Euro)

There is 12 tracks on this album so...

US album price per track: $0.92 USD
UK album price per track: $1.84 USD
Can album price per track: $0.92 USD
Euro album price per track: $1.96 USD

Comparaison of online price VS "real thing" price


(I know UK is in the Euro but Napster seems to think differently :D )

US: 7% more expensive when bought online.
UK: 9% more expensive when bought online.
Can: 20% LESS!!! expensive when bought online.
Euro: 20% LESS!!! expensive when bought online.

Ok ^_^ with only one album, I guess this is not very representative. Also, that album might be considered an "import" in europe explaining the high price.

The only definitive convlusion I can make... Canadians will have the sweetest deal if iTMS is ever released in Canada AND want to stay competitive with Napster.

[Windowlicker]

haven't i done the math a million times already? ok, once more. and this math ASSUMES that everyone will play fair, in other words, that both the record companies and our beloved apple are satisfied for having the same amount of money from europeans as they are satisfied for having from americans. that means simply that the taxfree us price can be converted into euros and add tax to it.

so here it goes. 0.99 dollars equals 0.825 euros. that should be the european taxfree price. let's say that ON AVERAGE we have a 20% sales tax (value added tax as they call it), that puts the final price at 0.99 euros.

to summarize and to repeat myself: everything above 0.99 euros per song is highway robbery. probably pure greed on behalf of the record companies.

or apple.

word.

and Stella: you're saying that we europeans are bitching for nothing? You're saying that "Europe pays far more for music than the US does, and that isn't based on exchange rate."

yeah, true. but isn't 1.29e a bit too much? Using the calculations by JFreak, we can actually get to a point where 1.29e is pretty damn much more than say $1.15 (here both prices have tax included)..

we SHOULD be getting the same numbers but in euros (=99€). then i would be satisfied.

[chrisblore]

This is a good question given that the UK still (stupidly in my opinion) insists on using the pound. I bet they will just establish a second pricing structure for the UK.

Yes. This will probably just be another case of 'rip off Britain' as is so commonly seen where the rest of the world (and even Europe which supposedly runs off the same sales taxes as we do of 17.5% VAT) has lower prices, leaving the British public feeling short changed. When the iPod mini comes out here it is likely to be at least as much (if not more) than the cost of buying one in the US, having it shipped over, paying VAT and and any customs duties upon arrival. I know I just sound like another moaning Brit, but it's true and I for one am fed up with paying a premium for living here in Blighty! :mad:

[Nemesis]

According to a Reuters report (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040527/media_sony_1.html), Apple may be ready to launch their iTunes Music Store for Europe as early as next month.

Yeah, and wattabout iTunes Music Store for Asia?!
About 3.9 bllion people live there! Just imagine that huge market, spreading from Asia Minor (Turkey), across Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afganistan, India, China, ex. Soviet Union, Korea and Japan!
Whoa!
I thing Indian market will rule! You just go out in the streets of Calcutta, and will see thousands of beggars with white earphones in their ears, listenning to good ol' folk songs and Bollywood musicals!
:D

[Wonder Boy]

so what? it's like china going to the moon. woo hoo we're number 3!

[robbieduncan]

Hoobstank - The Reason is only £8.99 at CD Wow http://www5.cd-wow.com/detail_results.php?product_code=9618

iTMS has to compete with this if I am going to buy a full album from there (and in general I prefer getting a full album to a few songs). As the CD allows me to rip at whatever bit rate I want I would say that iTMS should be cheaper, £7.99 at most.

[Steven1621]

i wonder if iTunes Canada will also become available...can those outside the US still download iTunes, but just not use the Music Store?

[srobert]

so what? it's like china going to the moon. woo hoo we're number 3!

A great accomplishment nonetheless if they make it there with peacefull intentions. By the time they land on the moon, they could be the only power in the world with this capability. America doesn't have this capability at the moment but may very well have it back by the time China is on it's way.

But I digress... GO EUROPE!!! May you get the best bargain out of online music!

[vincentb]

So many people are complaining about the price being too expensive. Remember that a typical CD is around 20 Euros and singles are at least 5 Euros, for what I have seen in France. With a 12 tracks CD, it's 1,66 Euros per track, which is quite more than the suggested 1,25 Euros.

Anyway, european people are used to pay a lot for everything, hard to figure out for americans who get everything free.

And for British people complaining about the price being in Euro, isn't it time you switch to the european money?

[BornAgainMac]

Apple would have sold over 100 million songs if it opened 6 months ago. Like they say over there "It's about bloody time".

[JohnGillilan]

About Value:

Best selling track from iTMS this week: The Reason (Hoobastank)
Best selling some comes from this album: The Reason

Is it just me, or has this damn Hoobastank song been #1 for like 6 months?? :rolleyes: :confused:

[jesuscandle]

So...am I the only one who's noticed the following trend:

1) Rumor saying prices on ITMS are going up / going to be set very high.
2) Breathless forum posts cursing Apple for having the audacity to set a market price.
3) Apple saying that, no actually, prices aren't going up.

Admittedly, Apple hasn't said word one about ITMS Europe pricing. But why don't we all save our self-righteous indignation until AFTER they announce actual prices.

[srobert]

Admittedly, Apple hasn't said word one about ITMS Europe pricing. But why don't we all save our self-righteous indignation until AFTER they announce actual prices.

This is macrumors, not macfacts! ^_^ We're SUPPOSED to discuss rumors here before they become facts (or not). And we just love that. We also love to complain about unfounded rumors. Some posts are positive, some posts are negative. Forums are the right place to exchange opinions. :D

On another totally unrelated topic:

*srobert attacks slime
*srobert misses slime
*slime attacks srobert
*slime hits srobert for 3 points of dam
*srobert attacks the slime
*srobert scores a critical hit for 8 points of dam
*srobert defeat the slime
*srobert gains 2 GP
*srobert finds bamboo stick
*srobert gains 1 XP
*srobert is now level 3
*ATT goes up 1 point
*DEf goes up 2 points
*Max HP goes up 3 points
*Max MP goes up 2 points

[iLilana]

Well isn't that just lovely? Napster already beat them to the punch in Europe, and now in Canada, too! (http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/arts/story.html?id=4a961946-b906-42e9-8028-d493e66861fd)

What's wrong with Apple? Why are they behind the 8-ball on this one?

yes.. that pissed me off too

[iLilana]

Canada?!!

Are you telling me that Apple can't multitask?

keep in mind the problem is not just apple.. its the crtc and canadian labels and possibly the GST (canadian goods and services tax).

However.. if napster can get it together, why can't apple?

[ALoLA]

Why just limit this upcoming "release" to Europe? Couldn't the big iTMS announcement that Steve has in store at WWDC would be iTMS Worldwide? :D We could dream, can't we? ;)

As far as Apple trying to profit from the "high" prices, I don't think so. The only "greed" they're guilty of here is trying to sell more iPods. I can live with that. :)

[IscariotJ]

And for British people complaining about the price being in Euro, isn't it time you switch to the european money?

For what benefit? The last attempt at something similar failed miserable (ERM). The Euro might be a common currency, but the pricing still varys for each country. For example, The Streets - A Grand Don't Come For Free:

Amazon.de - €13.99
Amazon.fr - €14.94
Amazon.co.uk - £8.49

An article which explains it a bit better, is this http://www.finfacts.com/euro.htm - scroll down to the price comparison. If each track is €1.29, some countries are getting a better deal than others. If the UK is charged the Euro, all the better, as each track will cost about 86p. If not, I'd be hoping for 99p.

This might be a obvious question, but will the catalogue be the same as the US iTMS?

[ThomasJefferson]

Nice income stream.
Yawn.
Not to change the subject, but Steve ... where are the new G5's? :rolleyes:

[billyboy]

The 3rd biggest music market in the world is the UK, where 1.29 euros equals 85/86p, which I suggest, to a Brit would sound very reasonable - even if it is expensive relative to prices paid by our colonial cousins across the Atlantic. And I am sure the average German, Scandanavian or Frenchman earns a shed load more than a Brit, so in those more lucrative part of Euro land, 1.29 Euros is probably just a bad-sounding number rather than bad value.

[Beck446]

This might be a ridiculous question, but I don't see how you can't use iTMS US even if you live in Europe. This is the internet after all. So what if they require a US credit card... cant you just load up an internet "iwallet" or some such non-sense and buy from the US store like anyone else?

You'd think that geographical boundaries on electronic data wouldn't be quite so insurmountable (legally and illegally)

[johnnyjibbs]

This might be a ridiculous question, but I don't see how you can't use iTMS US even if you live in Europe. This is the internet after all. So what if they require a US credit card... cant you just load up an internet "iwallet" or some such non-sense and buy from the US store like anyone else?

You'd think that geographical boundaries on electronic data wouldn't be quite so insurmountable (legally and illegally)
You need a proper credit card with a valid US address. You can't just make up an address when registering for the credit card, and the credit card address (which has to be in the US) must match what you tell Apple in your user account as they verify this to stop against fraud.

So the only way to get around it is to know and trust someone in the US, who can set up a credit card in their name, using their US address, and then let you use it for iTMS purchases.

[Applespider]

This might be a ridiculous question, but I don't see how you can't use iTMS US even if you live in Europe. This is the internet after all. So what if they require a US credit card... cant you just load up an internet "iwallet" or some such non-sense and buy from the US store like anyone else?


Because they insist when you set up the account that you enter a credit card with a US billing address. even if you have another credit card set up on .mac, it transfers all the info over but requires a 5 digit zipcode, a state and a phone number associated with card

[Beck446]

You need a proper credit card with a valid US address. You can't just make up an address when registering for the credit card, and the credit card address (which has to be in the US) must match what you tell Apple in your user account as they verify this to stop against fraud.

So the only way to get around it is to know and trust someone in the US, who can set up a credit card in their name, using their US address, and then let you use it for iTMS purchases.

Yeah, I just thought there would be a way around that, but I guess it's harder than it sounds. Perhaps I'll be a clearinghouse for all of you and charge a nominal fee for the services??? :D :D If only I could 100x my credit card limit.

[Colonel Panik]

Does this raise the possibility of the 4g ipod intro???

Wouldn't surprize me if Apple have a huge bonanza planned for the launch, and consider the iPod mini part of that. While everybody with a back garden shed and a 56k modem seems to be setting up music download services here in Europe, they're just don't have style (especially when I have to use Windows to access/play the music), and most have opened with about as much fanfare as a tone-deaf beggar playing the gazoo.

[Colonel Panik]

Frankly in my opinion EURO 1.29 per track is very reasonable ... this is NOT expensive.

When you consider some of the harder to obtain albums can cost up to 32€, no it's not expensive. But for that price I'd expect a higher quality encoding, or some 'upgrade' option later. I'll be tempted when I want the instant gratification of having a pop-song (where I don't really care about the fidelity, I just wanna shake to it), or for songs that are out of print/not available here, but I still have my doubts about paying €1.29 and never being able to 're-rip' the song into a higher quality. When I first ripped CDs, I did it at 128Kbs to MP3s (ugh!), and now I do it at 192Kbs to AAC. But there are some songs that I wouldn't buy unless I got a lossless version, e.g. Lauren's Walking or other songs where the fidelity is essential to the enjoyment of the song.

[elo]

but since (compared to a physical cd) the drm'ed aac file:
- is worse than cd quality
- as drm'ed file has less freedom of use
- has less (none!) cover art
- has less (none!) resell value



Actually, songs purchased from iTMS *do* include cover art--it displays in iTunes when you play the song.

They also (theoretically) have more resell value than CD's, as they do not become "used" in the same way that physical media does. Of course, the seller must deauthorize his computer(s) and relinquish all rights to the music, but otherwise you wouldn't be legally selling it anyway.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of your claim that a DRM'ed file has less freedom of use, at least in the sense that anyone would (legally) use the music. Five computers and unlimited CD burns and iPod usage seems not particularly restrictive to me.

elo

[eSnow]

1.29?
Yeah right, like I am going to buy at that price. Thanks a lot, but Limewire exists for crippled CDs, and for real CDs I don't pay that much more. Sorry, Apple, but that's a no, and I don't care whos fault it is.

[Quarkie]

Well...they better do something with their iTMS launch, pricing and marketing strategies, and general iPod re-thinking. They're about to become Microsoft's Lunch (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8776).

[dantec]

Having lived in Switzerland for my whole life (except the past 6 months where I moved to America) I can confirm that CD (and DVD's for that matter) are overpriced in Europe...

Its not a question of where the music companies physically are... like BMI, EMI whatever... It's that there is an established market in the United States at a price, where consumers expect to pay that price... In Europe even though some of the record companies are located there they still pay the higher prices and that is justified by the market and bloated VAT, TVA, (kind of sales tax).

People should also remember that not so long ago the Euro was at about an equal exchange rate with the dollar and before that most European currencies were worth a LOT less than the dollar !

Just my 2 cents...

[JFreak]

Actually, songs purchased from iTMS *do* include cover art--it displays in iTunes when you play the song.

oh? is it there automatically, without extra effort by user? i didn't know that, that was just an assumption. my bad ;) i still think actual cd has more art than only the cover.

They also (theoretically) have more resell value than CD's, as they do not become "used" in the same way that physical media does. Of course, the seller must deauthorize his computer(s) and relinquish all rights to the music, but otherwise you wouldn't be legally selling it anyway.

is this even possible, and if it is, is it permitted? i think that reselling is not allowed at all. if it (technically) can be done but (legally) isn't allowed, that's just as bad as distributing mp3 files thru kazaa. the whole point of drm'd music files is selling the music online legally. anyone can legally (re)sell a cd easily.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of your claim that a DRM'ed file has less freedom of use, at least in the sense that anyone would (legally) use the music. Five computers and unlimited CD burns and iPod usage seems not particularly restrictive to me.

how do you borrow a drm'd file to your friend? also, how do you make a backup of the original, in case you lose your hard drive accidentally? i'm not satisfied with burning it into a cd, because re-ripping it into a new aac file degrades the already less-than-cd quality. restrictions are not so severe, i could live with them easily, but they are there.

[SiliconAddict]

how do you borrow a drm'd file to your friend? also, how do you make a backup of the original, in case you lose your hard drive accidentally? i'm not satisfied with burning it into a cd, because re-ripping it into a new aac file degrades the already less-than-cd quality. restrictions are not so severe, i could live with them easily, but they are there.


Backups are as easy as backing up any other file. The activation is on the computer not the DRMed data file. You can copy your music to any medium and copy it back to any computer as long as its been authed to use those songs.

As for loaning songs. *shrugs* That's what CD's are for. I loan music out all the time simply by burning the requested songs to CD. They don't need any higher quality track then what's on the CD. If they do its a pretty good bet you or they are pirating the track. I'd sugget you actually USE iTMS before you it. Sounds like you really don't know much about how it works.

Rule number one in life: Never trash something\someone unless you somewhat know what you are talking about.

[JFreak]

Rule number one in life: Never trash something\someone unless you somewhat know what you are talking about.

you're right about that. i was originally stating that in principle when we accept restrictions, that's one factor that should lower the price. and there are restrictions, and thank god apple has negotiated such a loose restrictions that may not come in the way in the real world. but they are there, and therefore itms europe will have to sell music for less than a physical restrictionless cd in a store.

if you read my original post where i mentioned the restrictions the first time, you will notice that i listed the things that in principle should affect to the song price.

[nagromme]

But a download also has BENEFITS that a physical CD lacks--and that's a factor that increases a song's marketable value.

I am speaking, of course, of the benefit of being able to buy just one song--or several--and not the whole album. That's the main reason for iTunes to exist, for me, and CDs simply don't offer that. (In fact, if you never listen to some of the songs anyway, you aren't saving money by buying that album on CD.)

Other benefits include major convenience: browse a much bigger selection than any physical CD store, browse faster and easier than any online CD store, hear previews of everything, do custom smart searches, and get your music NOW--not tomorrow, not next week, and NOT after hauling yourself out to a store with parking lots and lines gas costs and wasted time.

[JFreak]

get your music NOW--not tomorrow, not next week, and NOT after hauling yourself out to a store with parking lots and lines gas costs and wasted time.

that's a benefit, yes.

edit: this post made me a "macrumors 6502" - wohoo ;)

[Maxicek]

For the way I buy music, this is good news. If I am going to buy a whole album, I will buy the CD. New releases seem to be around £9 at the moment on Amazon. But my CD collection is littered with albums that I bought for one track and never listen to the entire album. I don't want to trawl through the P2P networks to download tracks of varying quality. iTMS will (I hope) give me a good source to fill in some of the gaps in my collection, without having to fork out for a whole album. But when it comes to buying an album, I want the packaging, sleeve notes and all the other stuff. Look at a Hed Kandi album and tell me you don't want the box. Boxes are important to me, I am an Apple fan after all.

Now I am starting to sound like a vinyl junkie who swears he will never trade in his 12" albums for one of those horrible new-fangled compact-disk things... :rolleyes:

[johnnyjibbs]

The music store will be good for me for several reasons:


I can buy songs on a per song basis as nanogramme said. This is the main deal with downloads and the reason for it being successful. (If I got an album, I would buy the CD). Albums are only sold to keep the record companies happy.
I only listen to my music now at 128kbps AAC generally so the quality is fine
This also means it saves time ripping into iTunes
DRM limitations are hardly limitations are they? Again this keeps the record companies happy.
Individual songs are far cheaper than singles.
Only means of getting hold of some songs (or without having to buy an entire album that I don't want)


I consider the AAC codec to be very good. I think it is a good sound considering the little space it takes up. And I appreciate music.

[adamfilip]

Forget it! I refuse to pay 1.29 Euros per song! Instead, I'll pay 99 cents. :) Oh, when does Canada get their on-line music store?

yeah when does Canada get the Music Store.. I mean Common now!

[chrisblore]

Napster has a subscription service where you can sign up for £9.95 per month (about $18) and use their streaming service (or even download DRM'd tracks to your hard drive) as much as you like. I know that Apple is very keen to keep the association there between iTunes and their iPod devices (and this would obviously be no good for an iPod) but do they have or are they thinking of implementing such a system with iTunes where we could listen to tracks unlimited times over the web or from our hard drives? I just think that this would be a good idea and would allow me to get a taster and compare the Napster UK and iTunes systems before I lock myself into one or the other because I prefer to have all my music files available from one player and the Napster player does not support AAC.

[johnnyjibbs]

Napster has a subscription service where you can sign up for £9.95 per month (about $18) and use their streaming service (or even download DRM'd tracks to your hard drive) as much as you like. I know that Apple is very keen to keep the association there between iTunes and their iPod devices (and this would obviously be no good for an iPod) but do they have or are they thinking of implementing such a system with iTunes where we could listen to tracks unlimited times over the web or from our hard drives? I just think that this would be a good idea and would allow me to get a taster and compare the Napster UK and iTunes systems before I lock myself into one or the other because I prefer to have all my music files available from one player and the Napster player does not support AAC.
Steve Jobs has said time and time again that the subscription model doesn't work. "$18 a month over your lifetime is a lot of money to pay just to listen to your favourite song. With iTunes, you can keep it forever for just $0.99" :p

[~Shard~]

yeah when does Canada get the Music Store.. I mean Common now!

Yep – I’ll definitely be making use of it when it’s released here! Right now though, I have little choice when I want music other than to use P2P. There’s a huge revenue stream sitting here in Canada that Jobs should tap into! Yah, I know, easier said than done, but I don’t think setting up iTMS in Canada would be quite as difficult as setting it up in Europe, for instance. I could be wrong though...

[Raid]

There?s a huge revenue stream sitting here in Canada that Jobs should tap into! Yah, I know, easier said than done, but I don?t think setting up iTMS in Canada would be quite as difficult as setting it up in Europe, for instance. I could be wrong though...

I can't wait for the Canadian iTMS either, infact Apple should get on it before loyal apple supporters start going to the Canadian napster and puretracks that are already set up!!!!!!!!! Common apple I know we aren't the size of Europe and the States, but we will make those international sales numbers look really good. As for the ease of set up here I wonder if the content laws of Canada and Content / language laws of Quebec are complicating things?

Regardless I hope we all can buy from iTMS soon! :(

[~Shard~]

I can't wait for the Canadian iTMS either, infact Apple should get on it before loyal apple supporters start going to the Canadian napster and puretracks that are already set up!!!!!!!!!

Yah, this is the one thing that gets me too - if Napster and PureTracks can do it, why can't Apple? It's not like there are impossible barriers to overcome here in Canada, these other services ahve already proved that. I realize this is being a little over-simplistic, but it obviously can be done - so do it Apple!!!

[mrsebastian]

come on apple, your laggin. let's get this show on the road! [guess i'm a little impatient today]

[Stike]

come on apple, your laggin. let's get this show on the road! [guess i'm a little impatient today]
Yep! I still get that lame region warning! :(