Apple Will Not Distribute 'Porn' and Other Inappropriate Content

[Godgem]

http://semtam.net/wp-content/gallery/apple.png

[TEG]

Having a ratings system and parental controls should mean that anything is allowed anywhere, so long as it is appropriately rated, and parents have the ability to block it. Both things are true in the App store, so what is the problem? This is the same thing the FCC does, institutes a ratings system so any content is available, and able to be blocked, then prevents the distribution of said content.


Bad call Apple, Bad Call!

[Melnibonean]

I understand the zeal that Apple exhibits in attempting to protect the perceived integrity of the App Store and its own corporate image :apple:, but I think the key in this situation is how the "inappropriate content" was distributed.

If the app was "clean" when it was purchased from the App Store and the porn was added over-the-air from the developer's own servers, how is this a violation of the App Store rules against distribution of pornography? Isn't Apple's own mobile Safari browser (along with scads of third party browsers for the iPhone) capable of downloading pornographic material OTA from any server on the Internet? How is this developer's app different in a fundamental sense? The porn did not originate from the App Store--only the application itself (the conduit--just like Safari). The only thing that makes sense here is that the app, unlike Safari, must have been purpose built for viewing porn, not a general purpose app like Safari. :confused:

[morespce54]

Thank god. I hope they let in a bit more "mature" games, but porn could be really bad for the iPhone and iPod Touch. How many parents would buy an iPod where you could download porn apps.

Right. It's not like you can buy Eminem albums with offensive lyrics on iTunes... Thank God... ;)

[eastercat]

Personally, I wouldn't want this app. However, I think it's ridiculous for Apple to restrict the app. With the ratings system in place, the only need for approval is to make sure the program doesn't mess with the system.
IMO, Apple shouldn't be restricting porn, simply because they don't like it. It's not good business sense. Also, they lose my respect because they start acting like religious people (i.e., they shove their views down everyone else's throats). :(

[thejakill]

I have pocket god and I think that the developer is lucky it made it on ,there is no blood yet:eek: and its ment to be a comical app not a shooter or just a violent version of the sims

I deleted pocket god after a few plays. It was racist. But more than that, it's just not very fun.

[morespce54]

forget porn.

can we get some gambling apps ?!?!?
i'm sick and tired of using mobile safari to access gambling sites!!!!

Nope. Gambling "is a Trap", remember? ;)

[contractcooker]

Some people can "happy end" in their cars too, so I've heard, hence the added mobility factor coming handy.:cool:

I wouldn't want to be a copper handing them a ticket though!:D

Cop: License and Registration

Me: Excuse me I have to clean myself up first.

Cop: Move along now have a nice day, consider this a warning.

Never thought of that one for getting out of a ticket although you'd probably actually end up on the sex offenders list in this backwards country.

[Treq]

So, are they going to get rid of the parental controls in the next update? It seems there is no need for them.:rolleyes:

[delicious]

I am very disappointed in Apple. Firstly their ultra conservative attitude, but secondly their incredibly vague and hugely differing 'guidelines'.
Why does an app get approved in the first place if it contains media that is not acceptable for the app store?

And it is a valid point that 3.0 has introduced parental controls - what are they for if there is nothing to restrict?

Thank God, my little sisters like to search the app store and download apps. They don't need to be seeing that garbage.

Well, Goona, how about your parents put parental controls on your little sisters' iPods/iPhones and then they won't see this 'garbage'? I myself have not seen the app, but I am sure that the developers dedicated time (and money) to developing this app; it's not fair that Apple should restrict it for no reason. (I'm sure they 'reserve the right' to do whatever the hell they like, but it's still not fair treatment.)

I think Apple are very close to turning into one of those harsh, dictating and hard to get hold of companies, mentioning no names coughPAYPALcough.

[Wotan31]

To call this particular application "porn" is a bit of a stretch
That's it exactly. Tasteful nude photos are art. Porn is something different altogether. The Statue of David is also "porn" based on Apple's definition. How idiotic.

[haravikk]

I think the issue is more that the existing app was changed to contain different content using the web-server that provides it with its images, the newer images being different from those originally used to decide the application's rating.

If the app had been submitted with such images from the start, then it probably wouldn't have had this issue.

I think Apple trying to safe-guard against the more extreme case of someone creating say a tetris-style game, which a few weeks later turns into hardcore porn; the application should be submitted with suitable examples of the content it is expected to contain, if the actual content differs significantly then it will be pulled and even disabled via the remote removal function of the iPhone.

[Oliver.m]

I don't really see why this is such an issue. I'm not a prude but i was surprised to have these programs in the top100, children would no doubt see them.

Maybe if they were to include them, they should have an 'adult' section in itunes for apps such as these; furthermore, not include them in the top apps list.

I though apple loved making as much money as possible and porn is without a doubt a big money maker - surprised they are not cashing in :D

[iPie]

The number of puritans on this board is really embarrassing .

I agree.

Most things (not ALL things) apple are porn anyway. Message boards, forums, advertising.

Many people are just more offended by breasts than by other acts of Obscenity, Indecency & Profanity.

Let's just call it good training and leave and at that.

[Lokheed]

I am very disappointed in Apple. Firstly their ultra conservative attitude

Yeah, totally: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10074793-37.html

:rolleyes:

[benpatient]

How is it an anti-freedom move, again, for them to exercise THEIR FREEDOM to decide what they will sell? Someone please explain this to me because I'm having a lot of trouble getting it.

Is that like the government exercising its "freedom" to lock people up without charges for indefinite periods of time?

almost all restrictions are, on a balance scale, equal to less freedom. The exception to that is probably the "freedom" to do violence.

[Lokheed]

Cop: License and Registration

Me: Excuse me I have to clean myself up first.

Cop: Move along now have a nice day, consider this a warning.

Never thought of that one for getting out of a ticket although you'd probably actually end up on the sex offenders list in this backwards country.

Not really. There are laws that forbid masturbation and sex in public. You get a fine or a night in jail. But that's contingent on who you were having sex with or what kind of content you were masturbating too...

[laravia18]

I don't really care if they allow apps like this or not. From a standpoint of you should be able to have whatever apps you want to or not, maybe they should allow people to develop their own apps for distributing. That way people can create apps with nudity and they won't be on their store.

That is the best solution IMO.

[marksman]

They should ban apps that bait and switch their content after they are approved, regardless as to what that is.

[teknishn]

They should ban apps that bait and switch their content after they are approved, regardless as to what that is.

This wasn't a bait and switch IMO. With iPhone 3.0 OS and iTunes 8.2 Apple added full parental and ratings controls. These controls have terms such as "explicit" and "nudity" for 17+ mature ratings. It was assumed by many developers, myself included, that once we had these updates from Apple, we would be able to further leverage our content based on the ratings and controls they implemented.

At this point I'm at a complete loss for words. Why implement these controls if you're not going to allow mature content? And one more thing, if I may say so..... a woman's exposed nipple is NOT porn. Seriously. But thats just the screwed up country we live in. The human body and sexuality is taboo and forbidden, but death, destruction, and mayhem is ok.

[rhett7660]

Is that like the government exercising its "freedom" to lock people up without charges for indefinite periods of time?

almost all restrictions are, on a balance scale, equal to less freedom. The exception to that is probably the "freedom" to do violence.

Because that is sooo like a business deciding what they want to sell and what they don't want to sell.. good lord. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[windywoo]

Looking at iTunes now I can rent My Bloody Valentine and Sex Drive, both of which contain more nudity than this app. Does iTunes have better controls over who downloads material there? Seems pretty hypocritical to allow it in one store but not another.

[iSee]

I don't begrudge any adult all the porn they can handle...

But what right does anyone else have to force Apple to sell it? (or other stuff they aren't comfortable selling?)

Geeze, for anyone who wants porn on their iPhone, drink from the fire hose: it's called the Internet.

[Treq]

I don't begrudge any adult all the porn they can handle...

But what right does anyone else have to force Apple to sell it? (or other stuff they aren't comfortable selling?)

Geeze, for anyone who wants porn on their iPhone, drink from the fire hose: it's called the Internet.

This can't be stated enough... THIS WAS NOT PORN. Please stop calling it that. It was just pictures of women, some of which were topless.

[chris200x9]

If you're that addicted to porn that you need to see it whilst on the move, seek help. It's Apple's store, if they don't want porn then there will be no porn. It's not a violation of your rights.

yes it is. Don't get me wrong Apple doesn't have to sell anything they don't want, but seeing as they make it impossible to get the app on my own and install it I feel they shouldn't dictate what you CAN have only what THEY sell. On the other hand you know there is one app store, you know apple controls it, you know you entrust steve jobs with everything you do when you buy an iphone, so my initial point is moot. However I still do disagree with their descision.

[bking1000]

The number of puritans on this board is really embarrassing .

Or feminists.

Label other people in small, easy to carry boxes, and make yourself feel better! :rolleyes:

[bking1000]

yes it is. Don't get me wrong Apple doesn't have to sell anything they don't want, but seeing as they make it impossible to get the app on my own and install it I feel they shouldn't dictate what you CAN have only what THEY sell. On the other hand you know there is one app store, you know apple controls it, you know you entrust steve jobs with everything you do when you buy an iphone, so my initial point is moot. However I still do disagree with their descision.

Get a Palm Pre. or an Android. Android's play Flash -- access to internet Porn.

Or is Apple flexing their "monopoly" muscles again? :rolleyes:

[almost30boohoo1]

Pornography is for losers.
Any guy that watches it, or sadly... collects it; I will not go near, even with those long gloves for handling nuclear waste!

They are horrible people, out of touch with reality, and worse of all... they suck at sex!! :mad:
In fact... so many of them are too scared to even have sex, they are so self-critical, or they can't get it up without watching pornography. So fluffing lame!!

Glad Apple made a stand, and hope they continue it. Just like Blockbuster and Nintendo.

[KidFresh]

This is step backwards for Apple and consumers. Whether we like it or not, the porn industry generates billions annually - on par with video games.

I can't wait til Palm, Google, and BB stores are filled with tens of thousands of "inappropriate" apps.

[jbernie]

Apps like this put Apple in an uncomfortable position. They want 100% of the content, which also means they get 100% of the blame/criticism/etc when something gets through... or conversely does not get through.

I personally couldn't care less about whether this app got approved or not, we got more naughtiness on free to air TV in Australia late at night than what this app offers. So overall it is rather mild, and a quick web search will get you almost anything that tickles your fancy for free anyway.

The problem Apple will continue to have is:
1) there will always be a small vocal minority who basically leave common sense at the door and will use.. no force.. their opinions on others with the end result being Apple caves in, removes the app and the voice of about 0.001% of the US population wins over the rest of the population who don't care at all.

2) The media for all the good that they should do are really only after ratings, and in the case of websites, clicks for advertising, so any story that they can sensationalize is worth running for a while, so even if Apple has all the correct restrictions & verifications in place, the media can link APPLE with IPHONE with PORN and present Apple in a bad way as many people might only view the headline and not the actual content.

But as Apple has set itself up in an all or nothing environment they will continue to suffer regardless of how appropriately they acted regarding a specific app.

[almost30boohoo1]

yes it is. Don't get me wrong Apple doesn't have to sell anything they don't want, but seeing as they make it impossible to get the app on my own and install it I feel they shouldn't dictate what you CAN have only what THEY sell. On the other hand you know there is one app store, you know apple controls it, you know you entrust steve jobs with everything you do when you buy an iphone, so my initial point is moot. However I still do disagree with their descision.

I read your post after posting mine... and giggled :)

[chris200x9]

Get a Palm Pre. or an Android. Android's play Flash -- access to internet Porn.

Or is Apple flexing their "monopoly" muscles again? :rolleyes:

I don't even have or want a smart phone (I had an iphone, it got stolen) I'm just saying being the sole content provider (of apps) for a device and then refusing to distribute some content is idiotic IMHO. If apple doesn't want to dristribute something at least open up your platform so someone else can. One anology: Sony makes blu-ray discs but their is a provision that says you can put movies on these discs as long as it's only pg-13. That is not even a good analogy because you could still use dvds for R rated content, I don't know unless you look at it as blu-ray is the app store and dvd jail break...but that really doesn't make sense eaither...hmmm...sorry I'm tired. Bottom line offer ALL content or at least make it somehow available.


I read your post after posting mine... and giggled :)

why?

[iSee]

This can't be stated enough... THIS WAS NOT PORN. Please stop calling it that. It was just pictures of women, some of which were topless.

We can argue forever on what exactly is porn or just "inappropriate" or whatever.

But I still don't think we have an absolute right to impose our values on Apple, the company.

That's not to say that Apple is free from any moral, ethical, or legal obligations--they aren't--but it's hard for me to see how they've violated these.

Look, in questions of judgement, where sane people can disagree, we need to balance the harm done if one party imposes their values on another party or vice-versa.

Here, either apple can impose their values on iPhone owners (no topless girls for you!), or you impose your values on Apple (sorry Steve, you are now a purveyor of girlie apps, like it or not.)
non this case I think it's clear that the lessor harm is with Apple. You can look at endless girlie pics on your iPhone, with or without Apple's help.

[DELLsFan]

... I thought apple loved making as much money as possible and porn is without a doubt a big money maker - surprised they are not cashing in :D

With 30+ BILLION DOLLARS in cash reserves, Apple can afford to pretend to be prudent and proper for "the children". Without those numbers, would Apple be taking this supposed high road for our youth? Here's a hint: Cupertino is just down the road; south of San Francisco - in California, one of the most conservative states in America.

:rolleyes:

[dejo]

Here's a hint: Cupertino is just down the road; south of San Francisco - in California, one of the most conservative states in America.
Say what? :confused:

[Guru74]

This is the responsibility of the parents, not Apple.
Well, it's easier to allways blame someone else...

YAY APPLE!!! :D:apple:

I am so happy that the company I love has a bit of moral fiber!
Nudity is immoral? Poor you...

Wow, even censorship here? Great forum It was not off-topic, it was exactly the point. The quote of almost30boohoo1 can stay, but it's not allowed to answer? As I said, pathetic. And all the blah-blah about freedom of speach? LOL

Wonder how long it will take 'till this will be nuked away...

[Oliver.m]

With 30+ BILLION DOLLARS in cash reserves, Apple can afford to pretend to be prudent and proper for "the children". Without those numbers, would Apple be taking this supposed high road for our youth? Here's a hint: Cupertino is just down the road; south of San Francisco - in California, one of the most conservative states in America.

:rolleyes:

This makes sense. I never though of it that way... of course the money they would make would be negligible (for them) and not worth risking their image.

I know you meant California being conservative as satire, but i am no longer sure, although a forward thinking state; policies such as Proposition 8 have to make you wander.

[dbassett]

Although it is an attempt to set a standard, and a good one at that; Apple needs to draw a hard line in the sand establishing what is porn for all those who are clueless and will want to engage in debate.

[iSee]

Well, it's easier to allways blame someone else...


Nudity is immoral? Poor you...
<snip>
I can't speak for the other poster, but I don't think a lot of people would suggest nudity by itself is immoral. I think it's the selling of women as sex objects to satisfy prurient lusts that many consider immoral.

[AidenShaw]

I know you meant California being conservative as satire, but i am no longer sure, although a forward thinking state; policies such as Proposition 8 have to make you wander.

It's not "wonder", it's true that there's a huge right-wing conservative population in California.

Reagan. Hello?

Prop 8? An issue, but while we work to fix California we can still go to liberal, open-minded states like Iowa where equality is the law.

Although it is an attempt to set a standard, and a good one at that; Apple needs to draw a hard line in the sand establishing what is porn for all those who are clueless and will want to engage in debate.

I think that the scenes of death and mayhem like the "Neda" death video are 'porn' - but pictures of people enjoying the libido that their creator gave them are 'art'.

Am I 'clueless'?

[Stella]

IF Apple feel this strongly then perhaps they should also put content blockers on iPhone Safari to ensure no such content can be viewed at all?

Remember the fuss the u.s made about Janet Jackson and the 'Wardrobe malfunction'... if you blinked you missed it. Really, a storm in a tea cup.

So, in some ways I'm not surprised Apple are acting the way they are, puritans.

[DinoMachino]

GOOD thats what I like to see...

I think it's simple...

Lusting after a fully clothed woman, or lusting after a naked woman (Porn or Art) is still degrading and inappropraite. Lust's excitement is the reason for such high divorce rates. Porn or Nudity isn't the addiction. Lust is. There is no difference between looking at a naked woman lustfully or looking at a fully dressed woman lustfuly.

Aye, lust. There is the rub.

I'm going to make an app of partially clothed statues and then after approval swich it to topless statues. That'll get the forums going!

I still say the app was crap and apple should be ashamed for approving it in the first place on the pricipal of being absolutely worthless.

Damn crapps.

[iphones4evry1]

I think that was a good move by apple, keepin the app store clean:D

Considering the millions of iPods owned by kids, and the millions of kids that tell their parents "I want an iPod Touch" every day, I'm sure this is good for iPod business.

Good choice apple. :):apple:
I have to admit, and I am not at all ashamed, that I have watched a lot of porn in my lifetime to know both the pleasures and perils of it.
And I very much like that some places will be kept COMPLETELY free of it, since it's all over the place in every other place you look at, from emails to websites, to pretty much everywhere. As well as the quasi porn stuff that gets passed off as teenager music and mens mags these days.
Thanks for keeping things clean apple.
I agree completely. I like looking at porn on my computer at 1am, but I do not want it to be in the rest of my life! And, if it's on my phone... that's not going to happen.

[branjosef]

On one sense, I am glad they aren't allowing porn because I could see the app store turning into nothing but porn and games. I think the store sucks already with the exception of a few really good apps out there. The last thing I would want is for it to completely go down the tubes with more crappy apps and a shifting buyer demographic. That being said, I am of the mind that apple should loosen restrictions on what they allow. I think a lot of really cool app ideas are stifled by their strict acceptance criteria. But then again, It is their store and they should be able to pick and choose what they want to sell. I would be pissed if someone told me what I could and couldn't sell. A lot to think about. Not as black and white as people make it out to be.

[Eminemdrdre00]

I wish Apple would stop "jerking" us around!

[branjosef]

I wish Apple would stop "jerking" us around!

I came to the same conclusion - Twice!!

[thepawn]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10273717-37.html

[Niko03]

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

Apple is not denying anybody the opportunity to use thier iPhone for porn.
Your an idiot if you pay for a porn app anyway since there is plenty for free. (so I've heard) and multiple ways to get it on your phone. Apple just doesn't want to stock it on thier shelves. It's thier right. Good for them. (even though I do like boobies!)

yawn and yes I know that boobies alone are not necessarily porn, but once again the media portrayed it as porn. And apple answered.

And all you yahoos cryin that porn is a billion(s) dollar industry and apple is a fool to ignore it - wake up! Dog food is a billion dlollar industry and for some strange reason apple is ignoring it too! Those short sighted idiots!

You know let's just also include best buy in on this one. Those bums sold me a DVD player but I can't find one good xxx film on thier shelves, let alone some simple innocent T&A pics. I guess I'll just have to pick up the latest rated r flick.

If you must, just use safari.

[Niko03]

You know all this discussion is really totally groundless.

The iPhone screen, while excellant, is really a poor device for delivering a quality porn experience. I mean you can really only get one good size boob on the screen at one time. There's really too much panning and zooming to get to all the other naughty bits. Try doing that with one hand while the other is busy elsewhere.

Hmmm.....maybe I should get the 3Gs.
Does voice control work with safari?
I can see it now.....
"pan to left booby". Good.
"zoom in 200%"
" keep nipple centered" ...damn inferior nipple recognition software
"quick pan to right boob", "then zoom to navel"
"faster,"....oh... too late......

I gotta get me that new apple tablet for a full 10" experience.

[branjosef]

I wonder if I made an app that combined topless pictures and fart noises if that would be considered porn? let alone immoral? You could press on each picture to hear its unique fart sound. Updated daily.

Now what would be a good name for an app like that?

[alchemistmuffin]

Okay, many people complaining about lack of porn on iTunes app store...

HAVE YOU HEARD OF AN APP CALLED SAFARI?

BILLIONS OF PORN, WITH NO NEED FOR SEPARATE APPS!

Besides, many porn sites are, and this is true, making an iPhone version of the site that is accessible via Safari.

Just my five cents here.

Otherwise jailbreak it (and risk having your iPhone blow up due to malfunction) and download porn app via Cydia store.

[Stiss]

this is a age old argument!

Although boobs is not porn I don't think it's needed in the App store.

At the same time, a little boobage never hurt anyone, after all if a kid wants to see boobs they can go on the web, or even buy a news paper!

[jbernie]

Perhaps parents should start doing their jobs rather than leaving it to company policies and governments to regulate. I can imagine peoples parents protesting outside a government office or a cooperation about high morals. while their son Timmy is playing Tune In Tokyo with the neighbor girl or that EMO boy with the mascara whose parents are too busy fighting global warming and gay rights riding the hippy bus to Washington D.C. is sucking another EMO kids cock (I don't mind gays but I think the parents should be a little closer to home to support THEM)

I think the first 6 words of your post summed up the whole situation quite well, a lot of parents want someone else to do their job and when they don't they have a need to sue.

[dAlen]

lol - wonder what you guys would do if you moved/visited Austria and road your bike on the path by the danube river where grandma and grandpa willingly walk around stark naked.

Isnt it time to get passed the "he showed his willie" and "she showed her nipple"...Its called a body. And the app showed a mix of girls with clothes and not clothes. From what I understand that is it...whats the big deal?

The whole bit of making an object out of someone is due to the strict mentality we have about our bodies...we have made an object out of it - "and they were ashamed they were naked"

Heck, I think we should be able to go to work in the nude if we so please, really not that big of a deal guys. Making it a big deal...makes it a big deal...for those its a big deal for. lol

laws, etc. are needed for those who remain 'unconscious', pick up Eckhart Tolles audio book and take life a bit lighter, its fun. :)

Peace

dAlen

p.s. - kids were in the same room as their siblings when they were born. [we didnt have anyone to leave them with that we knew, so we took them with us.] So Im not with the hide kids from this, that...time to educate, you dont educate things turn into mythos and then a whole cult theology of fear is made from it. ;)

[iphoneftw]

lol i found this funny on google trends

[Anomalus]

This kind of stuff always cracks me up. Showing women in bikinis posing provocatively and artistic nudity always seems to terrify Americans, while showing killing and mayhem and doctors picking through human remains while cracking jokes on the autopsy table seems the norm (just turn the tv on any channel in prime time). Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy violence and mayhem probably a little more than most folks (USMC Force Recon 8 years), but enough already.

True. Although if you browse the internet, be it only 10 minutes, the chance of you stumbling upon porn is much greater than that of you stumbling upon violence and mayhem. So in a way the TV and the Internet balance each other.

[windywoo]

Pornography is for losers.
Any guy that watches it, or sadly... collects it; I will not go near, even with those long gloves for handling nuclear waste!

They are horrible people, out of touch with reality, and worse of all... they suck at sex!! :mad:
In fact... so many of them are too scared to even have sex, they are so self-critical, or they can't get it up without watching pornography. So fluffing lame!!

Glad Apple made a stand, and hope they continue it. Just like Blockbuster and Nintendo.

Plenty of confident men watch porn, they just don't tell you when they do. Lots of couples watch porn together. Should I call you a slut because you have sex with lots of men out of marriage? Not so fun to have your sexual habits questioned is it?

[Torajima]

This isn't about porn folks. Nudity is NOT porn... have none of you watched an R rated movie?

Most of the developers I have talked to are NOT happy by this decision. Not because they want to do pornographic apps, but because they could create mature games aimed at adults without worrying about their games getting refused. Games with mature themes, realistic violence, sexual innuendo, etc.

Once again developers will shy away from creating such apps, as they are simply too risky to develop.

[Torajima]

Can you please send me a link? Because I'm having trouble finding the "Porn" section of the iTunes store.

Just do a search for rap music. Most of it is more explicit/pornographic than the app in question. ;)

[Becordial]

It's bad when the state tells us what is appropriate or not, but it's even worse when a company does it.

At least the state is democratic and has some depth in thinking about such issues. However, a company determining what's appropriate when it has no mechanism of asking us what is, or isn't right, is far from something that should be defended.

The reality is most phone and pay TV companies provide a range of hosted adult services and happily take money for it. They just make sure that their marketing and presentation is responsible.

[sum1]

Thank You Apple! Keep it Clean and useful.

[corinhorn]

It's bad when the state tells us what is appropriate or not, but it's even worse when a company does it.

At least the state is democratic and has some depth in thinking about such issues. However, a company determining what's appropriate when it has no mechanism of asking us what is, or isn't right, is far from something that should be defended.A business isn't an open community or a democracy. They have no obligation to take votes from customers. It's a frickin' business! They made a business decision not to allow boobies in the app store. If you want boobs, there are a myriad of other methods to do so.

[Becordial]

A business isn't an open community or a democracy. They have no obligation to take votes from customers. It's a frickin' business! They made a business decision not to allow boobies in the app store. If you want boobs, there are a myriad of other methods to do so.


I totally agree, business isn't and should not be a democracy. It'd be dysfunctional if they were. In terms of customers not influencing things though it's hard not to detect a degree of moral conservatism from their community is influencing their business interests. I wonder if Apple was European whether they'd take the same view.

[Wotan31]

Apple's inconsistency is what is at issue with this app. They allow explicit material through the itunes store, yet the block it in the app store. They need to set their standards, whatever they may be, and stick to them. Applying the rules inconsistently is turn off for everyone, developers and end-users alike.

[Wotan31]

If you want boobs, there are a myriad of other methods to do so.
But what if I want boobs on my phone? :D

[bigmc6000]

Do reputable book and video stores shelve adult material, including pornography?

Just wondering, has anyone read LOST GIRLS by Alan Moore?

Depends on the store and if they do they are almost always behind the counter so you had to show ID to get it. If Apple went with this I'd fine with it - not just some parental control thing but have people enter in their Drivers License number and contract with the states to get that info. Basically it's the same premise as checking ID at the point of sale...

[iMaggot]

So movies like "American Pie" are acceptable in iTunes, but an App that shows boobs is unacceptable ?

Lol wow that is dumb.

[Jason Lee]

Depends on the store and if they do they are almost always behind the counter so you had to show ID to get it. If Apple went with this I'd fine with it - not just some parental control thing but have people enter in their Drivers License number and contract with the states to get that info. Basically it's the same premise as checking ID at the point of sale...

Every place where I've worked and shopped (Barnes and Noble and FYE) never placed pornographic/adult things behind the counter. They're shelved just like all other books/DVDs, but just not next to the Disney stuff.

Should also mention that nudity can mean pornography, depending on the intent of the author.

As defined in the Oxford dictionary, pornography is:

printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.

[freediverdude]

@imaggot- yes, and now with the 3.0 software, you're even allowed to download American Pie directly on the iPhone, yet not allowed to have an app with some topless women in it.

[bigmc6000]

Evert place where I've worked and shopped (Barnes and Noble and FYE) never placed pornographic/adult things behind the counter. They're shelved just like all other books/DVDs, but just not next to the Disney stuff.

And if you went to purchase it they would just let anybody buy it?

I'm 27 and some lady just freakin' ID'd me at Wal-Mart for tylenol. Saying it's in the store is the equivalent of looking it up on Safari where as selling it to anyone who managed to make it in the store is like putting in the App store - they still ID you at time of purchase.

EDIT: Also, from what I can recall, aren't nude magazines normally bagged with logos over the nudity so people can't see anything unless you open the bag? And aren't they, usually, on the stop shelf and, generally, out of the reach of little kids? See where I'm going with this?

[pesawyer]

Parent's should do their job......

Absolutely, Parents let's hear from you. Chime in with what a great step you think this is from Apple. One less place we have to worry about our children.

Banning porn from the Internet should be the next step. Then we can work on the TV shows. Then we can work on the magazines. Then we can work on the.........

[Jason Lee]

And if you went to purchase it they would just let anybody buy it?

I'm 27 and some lady just freakin' ID'd me at Wal-Mart for tylenol. Saying it's in the store is the equivalent of looking it up on Safari where as selling it to anyone who managed to make it in the store is like putting in the App store - they still ID you at time of purchase.

EDIT: Also, from what I can recall, aren't nude magazines normally bagged with logos over the nudity so people can't see anything unless you open the bag? And aren't they, usually, on the stop shelf and, generally, out of the reach of little kids? See where I'm going with this?

Of course we didn't let anybody purchase adult books/DVDs. Don't be disingenuous. Of course we carded people we felt were underage. My point was, adult apps should be available, but categorized separately.

As I stated in my previous comments, I despise all forms of censorship, even though Apple has the prerogative to censor any app they feel violates their moral/business philosophy. I just think a better idea is to regulate adult apps by separating them from other apps.

[Yata-Hey]

Apple - show some class... keep the sleaze factor off the iphone! Also, all the "girls" apps - we don't need them on the iphone.

[bigmc6000]

Of course we didn't let anybody purchase adult books/DVDs. Don't be disingenuous. Of course we carded people we felt were underage. My point was, adult apps should be available, but categorized separately.

As I stated in my previous comments, I despise all forms of censorship, even though Apple has the prerogative to censor any app they feel violates their moral/business philosophy. I just think a better idea is to regulate adult apps by separating them from other apps.

I just think they need something more than telling parents they have to go make sure the parental controls are enabled. How about they make it enabled by default and then you enter your DL # and you're good on that device for, idk, a month or so to purchase adult apps? Or maybe have them put in the DL # every time you want to purchase something like that - I mean, how often are you buying R movies or 17+ apps on your iPhone?

[corinhorn]

But what if I want boobs on my phone? :D

Well, I suppose you could use Safari. Or you could take a snapshot of your wife's/girlfriend's ta-ta's and keep them on your phone. :D

[windywoo]

Well, I suppose you could use Safari. Or you could take a snapshot of your wife's/girlfriend's ta-ta's and keep them on your phone. :D

Or someone else's wife's/girlfriend's ta-tas while they aren't looking. Or pay girls $20 a pop to take pictures!

[danjferguson]

Apple is really just protecting themselves from ridiculous laws in the US. Imagine if you pulled up an app on your iPhone that showed someone naked in a school zone. Congratulations you are now going to be categorized just like a child sex predator and have to register now. Imagine if they decided to go back and sue the company that made it so accessible to get porn in inappropriate places. Yes, they may not win anything except set a precedent. Either way, until all the uptight people (at least in this country) get over themselves and nudity, sexuality and anything else they have hang ups on due to hundreds of years of religious oppression, we aren't going to get the true freedom of information so many people want.

[Torajima]

As defined in the Oxford dictionary, pornography is:

printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.

This is a modern, politically correct definition. Older definitions leave out the word "organs", so it's just pertaining to sexual ACTIVITY. It also makes assumptions about the authors intent. Did Michelangelo mean to stimulate us with his portrayal of David? Hard to ask him now...

[mescalito]

Apple is missing out on a huge revenue stream. Why not allow an adult section in the app store requiring age verification, 18+, for users who wish to view this content?

Just keep it discrete and inaccessible to minors.
:cool:

[Ttownbeast]

I bet an app that depicts forms of violence is OK with Walmart....did a say that I meant Apple.

[Bubba Satori]

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2554/bigbrother.jpg

[windywoo]

http://mimesisandviolence.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/ceiling_cat_is_watching_you_masturbate.jpg

I just had a look at the games on iPhone. Most of them are pretty tame but there is Quake which is violent. There is also Hangman, which could be viewed as controversial! The idea of hanging a man if you don't guess the correct word is pretty sick.

[raf66]

Good move Apple. The standards in this country have gone down the toilet in the last 20-30 years and the world wide web has hastened their demise even quicker. If you want that content, google it and I assure you that you'll find it in spades. If you need an app like that, write one yourself and put it on your own iPod Touch or iPhone.

Move along . . . nothing to see here.

[Sehnsucht]

Relax, kiddies. Apple is not trying to play the moralist by rejecting those apps. It's purely a business concern. The simple fact is (no matter what anyone says) they are worried about how *they would look* if they allowed porn apps and thus began *making money off sales of porn apps.* That doesn't look good for anybody. The whole argument about "the porn app called Safari" doesn't hold water because Apple *doesn't make money* if or when users visit iPhone-optimized porn sites on mobile Safari. ;)

[branjosef]

We need a good plague to thin the ranks of leadership in this country. Bring in some fresh new ideals

[Hamburger3]

I love sex, but don't love porn. The two are not equal. Porn feeds lustful appetites that are never quenched. Sex is an act of love and commitment.

Not always. Sometimes its a business transaction.

[Ano]

Logically speaking, Apple should not distribute porn via the appstore since Steve Jobs, the Chief Executive of Apple Inc. is also on the Board ofDirectors of Walt Disney Co., which has come to represent "wholesome family entertainment" and porn certainly doesn't fall into that category.

I'd say Apple made the right call to pull porn off the appstore.

[niuniu]

Apple just don't want any competition for the virtual porn machine they're bring out in Q4

[Sam21]

Ok I'm going to be honest, I only made it to page 8 then physically couldn't read any more of the balls about what lust is etc.

I agree with Apple that porn should not be allowed. I think it's good they're sticking to their guns and choosing their image over the inevitable rise in profits they would get if they did allow porn.

Now that I've said that however, the app in question was in no size, shape or form porn!

In the UK one of the most widely sold newspapers has the now renowned 'Page 3'. In case you're unaware Page 3 contains a topless woman every day. This is a paper that parents read at the breakfast table, men and women read at work or on trains/buses.

It's not a big deal, it's a pair of boobs.

When I go on holiday to Spain 75% of the women on the beach are topless, this is on the normal non-nude beach. If they want to go the whole way they go to the nude beach. Using this as an example you could say topless images are not even nudity, so how it can be porn is mind-boggling..

All the kids playing on the beach amongst these topless women aren't going to turn into sex beasts because they saw a few pairs of boobies on the beach. In fact it's the opposite effect, the local kids who grew up with this way of life are the ones who don't even notice the boobs and it's the holiday makers who are usually giggling or whatever.

I really think Apple need to grow some balls a little. There's being protective and there's being over protective. There's no reason they can't use the filters to protect kids from topless images if they so wish too.

[Torajima]

We need a good plague to thin the ranks of leadership in this country. Bring in some fresh new ideals

No plague needed... just convince 150,000,001 of your closest friends to vote libertarian! :)

[kurono]

If this is true it's really big news. Despite what everyone thinks and what most of the tech blogs have been saying, Apple has never explicitly said what it would do in this regard. This is the first announcement to that effect.

It could also have a huge backlash since the USA is one of the most backward, prudish countries in terms of what is considered "appropriate" content. For Apple to universally disallow programs and imagery to adults, which is actually considered okay for children in the rest of the world is nothing short of outrageous.

It's also incredibly hypocritical. The USA decides for he rest of the world what is okay and what is not okay?

I don't believe this is actually true or "the whole story" in that (without exaggeration) this could literally sink the iPhone as a desirable product if the regional stores and the countries in which the product is on sale don't have any control over the content.

True, the USA is soooooo hypocritical.

Here in Europe you can see woman without bikini tops lying in the sun in public baths and that's not so special.

[branjosef]

No plague needed... just convince 150,000,001 of your closest friends to vote libertarian! :)

HA! Let me go straight to facebook

[Ttownbeast]

Logically speaking, Apple should not distribute porn via the appstore since Steve Jobs, the Chief Executive of Apple Inc. is also on the Board ofDirectors of Walt Disney Co., which has come to represent "wholesome family entertainment" and porn certainly doesn't fall into that category.

I'd say Apple made the right call to pull porn off the appstore.

Yah Disney's very wholesome image might be tarnished by a perverted iPhone app I'm sure Brittney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, and all the rest of the whack jobs Disney has spawned over the past couple decades are reeling over the lack of morality our country has. Don't forget Capatain EO he might be turning over in his grave sipping on his Jesus Juice about a dirty iPhone app.

[casmith07]

if people are really that hard pressed to need to get an app from the app store to watch porn...I fear for the technological savvy of the world.:o

[ilogic]

Thank you Apple, there is enough of that garbage on the internet, everyone who does enjoy it has enjoyed it without the iPhone to this day.

The Rating system is probably for games.

[trav0123]

I am going to step out and state something that is very unpopular. Pornography is wrong. I don't care who are you are what your political, religious, or personal stance is about it. In the past 10 years I have seen, in counseling type environments, hundreds of families ruined over pornography. Pornography has caused more harm to our society and to our youth than any other single thing in history. Pornography is anything but harmless. History will revel the impact of this filth. You can be angry, curse me, or call me old fashioned. But I know that this is true. And lets be clear, pornography is any image, text, or video that entices a sexual response. I have seen the effects of the "soft-porn" (bikini's, nudity, provocative images, etc...) in hundreds of men and women's lives, non of the effects have been positive. And "Hard-core" pornography, is exponentially worse.

I take my hat off to Apple for standing up and making a firm stance. I wish more companies, organizations, and groups would make the same stance. Apple will continue to receive my business as long as they continue to stand strong to winds of social pressure.

I commend them for pulling the app. I think they should err on the safe side rather than allow the boundaries to be pushed. I think there are several other apps that should be pulled.

[johnmcboston]

I am going to step out and state something that is very unpopular. Pornography is wrong. I don't care who are you are what your political, religious, or personal stance is about it. In the past 10 years I have seen, in counseling type environments, hundreds of families ruined over pornography. Pornography has caused more harm to our society and to our youth than any other single thing in history. Pornography is anything but harmless. History will revel the impact of this filth. You can be angry, curse me, or call me old fashioned. But I know that this is true. And lets be clear, pornography is any image, text, or video that entices a sexual response. I have seen the effects of the "soft-porn" (bikini's, nudity, provocative images, etc...) in hundreds of men and women's lives, non of the effects have been positive. And "Hard-core" pornography, is exponentially worse..

I don't care what your views are. I do get concerned when you try to force your ways onto other people (like me...). Anything can destroy lives when it is abused.

[iphoneftw]

theres this magical app on the iphone with porn on it
its called safari
its my favorite app since im a teenager

[johnmcboston]

Logically speaking, Apple should not distribute porn via the appstore since Steve Jobs, the Chief Executive of Apple Inc. is also on the Board ofDirectors of Walt Disney Co., which has come to represent "wholesome family entertainment" and porn certainly doesn't fall into that category.

I'd say Apple made the right call to pull porn off the appstore.

Perhaps they just don't want to be embarassed once the top 10 apps are all porn. :) Which industry do you think led the way on DVD and even internet use?

[Mac Kiwi]

This is also good publicity for Apple {the discussion} keeps the Iphone continually in the news.


I am sure if the Iphone stays in the position of leader or close to,then the adult industry will find a way around it,or create there own competitor of some description....those dudes just have to much cash nowadays.

[alex4bes]

porn like everything has a time and a place....

An app that just contains porn is not an app as such... I remember on the first colour phones there was a game where u moved an object round the screen avoiding the bad objects and the line u have traced to reveal part of a naughty picture....

The game was addictive......the porn was an afterthought.... I was 13... It was funny...


I understand apple. I understand why. If you NEED an APP for PORN something is wrong... If you NEED some PORN to make a good APP something is wrong.

You stay classy Mac Fans:apple:

[iphoneftw]

porn like everything has a time and a place....

An app that just contains porn is not an app as such... I remember on the first colour phones there was a game where u moved an object round the screen avoiding the bad objects and the line u have traced to reveal part of a naughty picture....

The game was addictive......the porn was an afterthought.... I was 13... It was funny...


I understand apple. I understand why. If you NEED an APP for PORN something is wrong... If you NEED some PORN to make a good APP something is wrong.

You stay classy Mac Fans:apple:

apple already has an app called safari for w/e you can even save images on it by holding down on the images. apple want you to use there app not some app on the app store :D

[michaellinehan]

It's also incredibly hypocritical. The USA decides for he rest of the world what is okay and what is not okay?


NO!!! They are just deciding what they do want and don't want in THEIR store. As every retailer does, online or off.

Fail or succeed - it's obviously their right to decide what gets channelled through their business premises.

[Ttownbeast]

I am going to step out and state something that is very unpopular. Pornography is wrong. I don't care who are you are what your political, religious, or personal stance is about it. In the past 10 years I have seen, in counseling type environments, hundreds of families ruined over pornography. Pornography has caused more harm to our society and to our youth than any other single thing in history. Pornography is anything but harmless. History will revel the impact of this filth. You can be angry, curse me, or call me old fashioned. But I know that this is true. And lets be clear, pornography is any image, text, or video that entices a sexual response. I have seen the effects of the "soft-porn" (bikini's, nudity, provocative images, etc...) in hundreds of men and women's lives, non of the effects have been positive. And "Hard-core" pornography, is exponentially worse.

I take my hat off to Apple for standing up and making a firm stance. I wish more companies, organizations, and groups would make the same stance. Apple will continue to receive my business as long as they continue to stand strong to winds of social pressure.

I commend them for pulling the app. I think they should err on the safe side rather than allow the boundaries to be pushed. I think there are several other apps that should be pulled.

Porn's been around for thousands of years all of civilization has survived its effect on polite society, I could say I am old fashioned too and say something like "all bitches need to stay in the kitchen" but feminism is not such a revolutionary concept either that has been around for thousands of years as well--it is called "prostitution" women have been leaders in business for millenia and the oldest profession doesn't necessarily require money to barter with.

[AidenShaw]

In the past 10 years I have seen, in counseling type environments, hundreds of families ruined over pornography.

I believe you, but as a counselor you must surely realize that the people who come to you are not the average families.

The families that have members compulsively "addicted" to porn will come to you, as well as those with members so insecure that they take personal hurt if their partner even acknowledges the sensual beauty of someone on the street or an image on the web.

If I see a nice bit of "talent" walking down Folsom Street, I'll nudge my husband and say "look - hot". Our marriage has no issues with talking about the attractiveness of a third party.

Counselors see the people who do have issues.

And frankly, if you think that porn is bad you're probably not a good counselor. You should empathize and draw out your clients' needs - not push your personal issues onto them.

[Sam21]

Pornography has caused more harm to our society and to our youth than any other single thing in history.

Wrong. That would be religion.

[vvebsta]

I'm glad Apple did not allow this. Its not only a classy move but I believe allowing it would have hurt their image.

[vvebsta]

Wrong. That would be religion.

You are grossly misinformed...the answer is clearly high fructose corn syrup.

[windywoo]

I am going to step out and state something that is very unpopular. Pornography is wrong. I don't care who are you are what your political, religious, or personal stance is about it. In the past 10 years I have seen, in counseling type environments, hundreds of families ruined over pornography. Pornography has caused more harm to our society and to our youth than any other single thing in history. Pornography is anything but harmless. History will revel the impact of this filth. You can be angry, curse me, or call me old fashioned. But I know that this is true. And lets be clear, pornography is any image, text, or video that entices a sexual response. I have seen the effects of the "soft-porn" (bikini's, nudity, provocative images, etc...) in hundreds of men and women's lives, non of the effects have been positive. And "Hard-core" pornography, is exponentially worse.

I take my hat off to Apple for standing up and making a firm stance. I wish more companies, organizations, and groups would make the same stance. Apple will continue to receive my business as long as they continue to stand strong to winds of social pressure.

I commend them for pulling the app. I think they should err on the safe side rather than allow the boundaries to be pushed. I think there are several other apps that should be pulled.

I can't believe you would put porn above things like guns and drugs. Porn might cause divides amongst families, but the death of a loved one at the hands of a gun wielding loony tends to leave irreparable damage. In fact we don't even have to talk about illegal drugs, since alcohol is a hugely effective toxin for families.

[corinhorn]

I don't care what your views are. I do get concerned when you try to force your ways onto other people (like me...). I didn't see the poster as "forcing" their ways on you. It seemed to me that the poster was defending their values.

Wrong. That would be religion.

Wrong. That would be extremists acting in the name of religion.

I can't believe you would put porn above things like guns and drugs. Porn might cause divides amongst families, but the death of a loved one at the hands of a gun wielding loony tends to leave irreparable damage. In fact we don't even have to talk about illegal drugs, since alcohol is a hugely effective toxin for families.Hmmmm. I would have guess that the looney wielding the gun would be responsible for the loved one's death, not an inanimate object.

My best friend was shot and killed when we were both 17. I have never once blamed the gun, only the shooter. The killer would have found a way to kill even if he did not find a gun to do it with.

[Goona]

I'm glad Apple did not allow this. Its not only a classy move but I believe allowing it would have hurt their image.

Exactly all the porn freaks can use Safari.

[Queso]

Exactly all the porn freaks can use Safari.
How many times does this have to be said? Nudity is not porn, and being able to appreciate nudity does not make you a porn addict :rolleyes:

[corinhorn]

How many times does this have to be said? Nudity is not porn, and being able to appreciate nudity does not make you a porn addict :rolleyes: Is that you Denial? :D

[Queso]

Nudity can also be art.

Case in point.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Michelangelos_David.jpg

OMFG!!! A penis!!! :p :D

[diamond.g]

Nudity can also be art.

Case in point.



OMFG!!! A penis!!! :p :D
Those are okay, it is the boobies that cause a problem...:rolleyes:

[Queso]

Those are okay, it is the boobies that cause a problem...:rolleyes:
In that case wouldn't want to post this would we? :D

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.lochrie/blogimages/pic0116.jpg

[millerlite]

It displays fine art, which includes many nudes. Nothing in there is pornography, but that's a reason why they mention 'nudity' as something you can block.

[corinhorn]

In that case wouldn't want to post this would we? :D

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.lochrie/blogimages/pic0116.jpgI find the lack of arms on that lady more disturbing than her nudity. :eek:

[arkitect]

I find the lack of arms on that lady more disturbing than her nudity. :eek:

Well if you're 2,500 years old your arms might also have gone missing by now. :)

[joro]

I agree most of this content, if not worse, can be accessed using Apple’s built in software which makes us all scratch our head. However, given Apple’s arbitrary blockage and removal of certain programs it came as no surprise to me that they pulled this app after the fact.

On a side note, I do agree there is quite a difference between nudity and pornography with the original INTENDING to be artistic while the latter is for, what I’ll call, self-pleasure.

[pelicanflip]

While there is a fine distinction between pornography and artistic nudity, I think Apple made a good call in taking such quick action against the app.

[Queso]

I find the lack of arms on that lady more disturbing than her nudity. :eek:
They should use Venus there as a warning to nail biters :)

Either that or that David wrenched them off with his monkey boy hands...

[iphoneftw]

Those are okay, it is the boobies that cause a problem...:rolleyes:

That statement right there is huge double standard

[Sehnsucht]

Wrong. That would be religion, in my opinion.

Fixed. ;)

apple already has an app called safari for w/e you can even save images on it by holding down on the images. apple want you to use there app not some app on the app store :D

NO. Enough about Safari already! Apple are covering their asses, plain and simple. If they get revenue from the sale of porn apps, then it's lawsuits from the prudish nutcases. End of story.

If I see a nice bit of "talent" walking down Folsom Street, I'll nudge my husband and say "look - hot". Our marriage has no issues with talking about the attractiveness of a third party.

No one's marriage should. If one's jealously is really so extreme as to be offended when their partner finds someone else attractive, then the two should probably not be married to begin with. Whatever happened to being honest and open with one's significant other? :confused: It's like some people think "he/she's hot" is tantamount to "I'd totally hit that," or even, "I hit that last night."

:)

[diamond.g]

That statement right there is huge double standard

Yup, that is why I included rolleyes... :D

[jbernie]

While there is a fine distinction between pornography and artistic nudity, I think Apple made a good call in taking such quick action against the app.

keep it simple, dont allow any app on they shows any of the naughty bits. then it doesn matter if it is porn or art :)

[farmboy]

Cripes, people...it's all subjective and malleable, and is culture-specific. It--meaning anyone's definition of freedom, porn, censorship, morès, etc.--is not cast in concrete, it's not universal, and I fail to see what this whole string is about.

It amounts to "Is too...Is not". I'm thinking most of the posters are under 25, because after a while in the real world (post academia) you understand that it's really not black and white, it's shades of gray. Virtually every moral position contains elements of inconsistency. There's absolute zero Kelvin (at least in this universe) and very little else absolute.

Get used to it, or find yourself overwhelmed by life.

[jbernie]

There's absolute zero Kelvin (at least in this universe) and very little else absolute.

There is Absolut Vodka :D

(i go hide now)

[joro]

http://mimesisandviolence.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/ceiling_cat_is_watching_you_masturbate.jpg

Wow, for some reason I got a great laugh out of this...:)

[branjosef]

Would I be able to post nudity if none of the models were attractive because nobody seems to think thats porn. Its more national geographic like. I wonder.....

[windywoo]

Wow, for some reason I got a great laugh out of this...:)

Of course you did! Cats are funny, especially ceiling ones.

www.icanhascheezburger.com

[Unspoken Demise]

Would I be able to post nudity if none of the models were attractive because nobody seems to think thats porn. Its more national geographic like. I wonder.....

And so it begins...:D

Of course you did! Cats are funny, especially ceiling ones.

www.icanhascheezburger.com

It boils down to science.

[branjosef]

And so it begins...:D



It boils down to science.


National Geographic nudity is far different from porn. I think apple would accept that. I wonder if these models would be interested.

[Unspoken Demise]

And its official. My penis is just for show now.