Apple to Adopt Micro-USB Connectors for iPhone Charging in Europe

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/29/apple-to-adopt-micro-usb-connectors-for-iphone-charging-in-europe/)

Reuters reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE55S1XZ20090629) that ten top mobile phone manufacturers, including Apple, have agreed to adopt the Micro-USB connector standard for smartphone chargers in the European Union. The shift, planned to begin next year, will allow smartphones from the companies, which control 90% of the market, to use the same charging cables. Apple currently uses a proprietary dock connector compatible with both the iPhone and iPod touch.The chargers will be usable only for data-enabled phones, which have more capability than just standard calls and SMS texts. Data-enabled phones are expected to account for almost half of all new mobile handset purchases in 2010.

The Commission hopes that as people discard their old handsets, within three to four years all data-enabled phones in Europe will be using standardized chargers.The plan also calls for new phones to be sold with Micro-USB chargers for a period of time before ultimately selling phones and chargers separately in order to allow customers who already own chargers to continue using their existing ones. While the agreement extends only to European phones, it is expected that the standard will make its way into phones around the world as companies attempt to keep their design and manufacturing costs streamlined.

Article Link: Apple to Adopt Micro-USB Connectors for iPhone Charging in Europe (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/29/apple-to-adopt-micro-usb-connectors-for-iphone-charging-in-europe/)

[Depress]

Actually, i think they are going to make a converter to the 30pin dock connector. Because of the many more features the dock connector has over the usb connector.

With that i think they will support trough the converter the following options:
charging and Headset(Stereo + Voice)

[MentalFabric]

That would be awesome - but what would happen to all the accessories? The 'iPod' dock connecter has become an annoying standard of it's own...

[andrew0122]

No more 30 pin? I really like the look of the dock connector. Some how it looks classier. . . Maybe it's just me.

[Warbrain]

I somewhat doubt that they'll go to Micro-USB on the iPhone but just provide an adapter like others have said.

[walnuts]

Actually, i think they are going to make a converter to the 30pin dock connector. Because of the many more features the dock connector has over the usb connector.

With that i think they will support trough the converter the following options:
charging and Headset(Stereo + Voice)

Does the dock connector have "more features" than usb? Will data transfer rates suffer?

This certainly raises questions as to what the app store developers should do regarding making devices that use the 30 pin connector. I would think that apple would be better off providing a separate mini usb port rather than replacing the 30 pin connector.

Also, isn't an adapter contrary to the point? Wasn't this initiative to cut down on proprietary cable waste? Making an adapter completely nullifies any benefit this might have.

[dubhe]

Please don't do away with the dock connector, I don't want to buy a new set of speakers, my Bose SoundDock is wonderful.

[Eso]

Actually, i think they are going to make a converter to the 30pin dock connector.

No. There are already all sorts of converters for the mini USB connector. The point of the standard is that so consumers don't need to use any converters because the port is standard across all phones. I expect Apple will put both ports on the next iPhone - the 30 pin dock will still be their standard for syncing/devices, and the mini USB for charging only.

[bigmc6000]

I somewhat doubt that they'll go to Micro-USB on the iPhone but just provide an adapter like others have said.

I certainly hope that's the case as virtually all the companies who make accessories would be seriously PO'd if they changed the dock. I understand the issue for all the other phones but for the iPhone? Seriously? Is there a store ANYWHERE that you can buy a cable to charge a phone and CAN'T buy something to charge your iPhone? It's the same freakin connection to charge as all the iPods so there are already 100's of millions pieces of hardware out there that use the exact same connector...

[xUKHCx]

Apple could still use the 30 pin dock connector and have a micro-usb somewhere on the side.


I like the move to micro-usb and when I first heard about this I wondered if apple would follow suit but they were quiet over the matter so just thought they weren't going to.

[daxomni]

I thought they went out of their way making every charging and interface system overly unique in order to increase revenue. Am I wrong? Won't this hurt their ancillary revenue streams by allowing consumers to save money? My guess is that this never makes it over to the US.

[FinalDragoon06]

Does the dock connector have "more features" than usb? Will data transfer rates suffer?

This certainly raises questions as to what the app store developers should do regarding making devices that use the 30 pin connector. I would think that apple would be better off providing a separate mini usb port rather than replacing the 30 pin connector.

The Dock connector has a few other features, Analog audio line-out for example. Data transfer speeds shouldn't be affected.

I fully see either a port to the side of the dock connector or an adapter like has been mentioned. I don't think the dock connector is going anywhere.

[johnnyjibbs]

They will not do away with the 30 pin dock adaptor. This is European MPs in suits who have no idea of the consequences of their actions forcing something on everyone. The aim is to keep everything 'simpler' for the average user so they don't get confused about which of 20 different chargers to use.

That I'm all for. Forcing manufacturers into a particular specification without any regard or thought for the limitations it might present is what I'm against. Same fiasco as with European software patents.

[deannnnn]

It's not that bad of an idea... but I don't see Apple abandoning the 30-pin in the USA.

[jsdc2005]

This isn't progress. I want FireWire 800 dammit!

[MedHead]

I cant imagine apple getting rid of the 30 pin, its been around since day one and if they change the iPhone then it would be at odds with the rest of the ipod line. While I dont think that an adapter is likely I could see them providing a dock with a micro-usb connector with the iPhone.

It's not that bad of an idea... but I don't see Apple abandoning the 30-pin in the USA.

But could you see them making two models differentiated by the charger interface? Think manufacturing costs!

[GrahamPadruig]

Why not just add a micro-USB port on the side of the iPhone? That wouldn't affect any of the peripherals, apart from cases that wanted to allow Euro-charging in-case. A USB port would also open up a whole world of possibilities - how about an iPhone that can plug into a printer or scanner?

[RichardF]

No. There are already all sorts of converters for the mini USB connector. The point of the standard is that so consumers don't need to use any converters because the port is standard across all phones. I expect Apple will put both ports on the next iPhone - the 30 pin dock will still be their standard for syncing/devices, and the mini USB for charging only.


And with that the iPhone would look like all the Microcrap "smart-phones" out there. I do not want two ports of the iPhone. Keep it simple!

[reubs]

As long as Apple provides a cable and a charger with the phone, this is a non-issue. I like the idea of a micro-USB port on all other phones b/c it allows me to carry just one charger (iPod brick) and one cable (short cable for 2.5" portable HDD and phone) plus the standard iPod cable. The problem happens when other manufacturers provide proprietary equipment for some bizarre charger type, and then those same manufacturers make it so that two years later the same accessories don't work with the phone from the same manufacturer (LG comes to mind...). That's when the fleecing starts, and this is what this measurement means to stop.

[xUKHCx]

The aim is to keep everything 'simpler' for the average user so they don't get confused about which of 20 different chargers to use.

The aim is to try and reduce the sheer amount of waste present in the mobile phone market.

[Hattig]

Apple has been quite good in respects to keeping the basic Dock connector over the past few years (of course they removed Firewire at some point, and added in video out at another point, and I presume some of the pins are spare to future functionality). However at some point soon they will want to update the pin-out to include HD video output (HDMI or DisplayPort signals, which can be routed to a HDMI or Displayport Port within a dock or similar hardware).

In addition, the EU should also extend this to Digital Cameras and portable media players.

[itickings]

A bit surprised to see Apple among the companies, but happily so. I guess the EU threat "standardize, or we'll regulate" didn't hurt.

As many others, I find it hard to believe the dock connector is going anywhere, but micro usb for charging wouldn't be too complicated or too costly to add in addition to the dock connector. Also, all reporting I've seen so far is about charging, so having a micro usb connector won't necessarily mean than the connector can to be used for anything other than for charging...

[andiwm2003]

It's about time. Apple is particularly bad in this.:mad:

Apple has been quite good in respects to keeping the basic Dock connector over the past few years (of course they removed Firewire at some point, and added in video out at another point, and I presume some of the pins are spare to future functionality). ........................................

After getting my iphone 3GS i realized that i can't charge it with any of my old ipod chargers although they have a dock connector.

I also can't use the European charger and my car charger that worked perfectly for my iphone 2g anymore.

Apple please explain to me why a charger that could easily charge my iphone 2g can not charge my iphone 3GS?:confused:

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I wonder if this means USB micro and the proprietary connector at the same time..

[dicklacara]

I have several iPhones & iPods that use the "standard" dock connector.

One of the original advantages is that the connector supported both USB and FireWire 400 hookups (remember early iPods were FireWire).

Then there are the iPod Shuffles-- each model seems to use a new (different) connector.

So, the Apple connector standard is really a mish-mash of proprietary hookups.

I also bought a couple of Mophie JuicePack Air external battery/cases for the iPhone 3G and 3GS. The iPhone slides into the battery/case which has an internal dock connector. The battery/case's external connector is MicroUSB (so it has a built-in adapter).

So far, everything works as expected-- the iPhone and/or the JuicePack recharges when plugged in and everything synchs through the MicroUSB cable.

The only complaints with the MicroUSB connection:

-- the connector isn't as substantial and appears a little fragile
-- the connector is smaller and more difficult to connect

That said, I would prefer the MicroUSB standard as long as Apple doesn't sacrifice any iPhone capabilities to use it!

Dick

[eastcoastsurfer]

It's about time. Apple is particularly bad in this.:mad:



After getting my iphone 3GS i realized that i can't charge it with any of my old ipod chargers although they have a dock connector.

I also can't use the European charger and my car charger that worked perfectly for my iphone 2g anymore.

Apple please explain to me why a charger that could easily charge my iphone 2g can not charge my iphone 3GS?:confused:

I noticed this too and it pissed me off. My Alpine stereo charged my iphone 2g just fine through the dock connector, but now it doesn't work. I hate feeling like they are doing things to simply force me to buy something else.

[MedHead]

As small and all as the micro usb port is would it have any likely implications for space etc. on the iPhone?
I think a port on the side would ruin the aesthetic of the iPhone, so I presume it will stay on the bottom.

[walnuts]

It's about time. Apple is particularly bad in this.:mad:



After getting my iphone 3GS i realized that i can't charge it with any of my old ipod chargers although they have a dock connector.

I also can't use the European charger and my car charger that worked perfectly for my iphone 2g anymore.

Apple please explain to me why a charger that could easily charge my iphone 2g can not charge my iphone 3GS?:confused:

Here here- I was surprised that no one else mentioned this earlier- my pioneer radio connection now makes the iphone 3gs report "charging is not supported with this accessory" while it still works with (now my wife's) iphone 2g!

[mobi]

9to5mac says that Apple can comply with just a MicroUSB adapter...
http://9to5mac.com/apple-micro-usb

My bet is on an adapter.

[andrew0122]

I would think that just as long as the device ships with an appropriate charger whether is it an iPhone or an iPod they wouldn't impose this on U.S. phone makers. It would be rather easy though considering the wall chargers that ship with the iPhone are standard USB to just have an extra USB Micro. I think it would take away from the beauty of the iPhone though.

[diamond.g]

Here here- I was surprised that no one else mentioned this earlier- my pioneer radio connection now makes the iphone 3gs report "charging is not supported with this accessory" while it still works with (now my wife's) iphone 2g!

That is because the unit charges via Firewire which is no longer supported (it won't charge a 3G either).

What I find odd is I have a usb charger that wont charge the phone either. But it charges usb stuff just fine.

[reverie]

So we will get a completely redundant port on next year's iPhone, a new hole in my phone, another way for grind and liquids to get in. I hate the idea.

[aleksandra.]

As small and all as the micro usb port is would it have any likely implications for space etc. on the iPhone?
I think a port on the side would ruin the aesthetic of the iPhone, so I presume it will stay on the bottom.

Micro-USB is thinner. Thinner is better :apple: . Now how to get rid of this headphone jack...:rolleyes:

[nep61]

And with that the iPhone would look like all the Microcrap "smart-phones" out there. I do not want two ports of the iPhone. Keep it simple!

And before you know it the bottom of the iPhone will look like this...

[DougB541]

Who in their right mind on this site would vote this news as negative?


Holy crap....Apple is actually following a future industry standard here and people find that negative?

Its a tiny port...get over it.
http://www.intomobile.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/razr2_tour_img_0847_605.jpg

[puffnstuff]

they will make an adapter not that difficult some 3rd parties probably make them already

[MedHead]

Micro-USB is thinner. Thinner is better :apple: . Now how to get rid of this headphone jack...:rolleyes:

True i guess, i just found a micro usm cable and compared it to the dock connecter...not much between them in terms of thickness really. I guess the iPod refresh in September might give us hints as to the plans for the connecter!

[DELLsFan]

It's not that bad of an idea... but I don't see Apple abandoning the 30-pin in the USA.

Neither do I. In fact, did you hear that? That was the very faint sound of "Meh" ... coming from behind Schiller's office door. :cool:

[MrCrowbar]

Actually, I can Imagine Apple modifying the 30 pin connector on the iPhone and iPods to allow a micro USB cable to be plugged in, too. Micro-USB is pretty thin, and some sort of funnel construction inside could guide the micro USB jack to the right place. This would make the 30 pin cables and micro-USB work, without killing the design.

[RichardF]

Who in their right mind on this site would vote this news as negative?


Holy crap....Apple is actually following a future industry standard here and people find that negative?

Its a tiny port...get over it.
http://www.intomobile.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/razr2_tour_img_0847_605.jpg



This interferes with the design of the phone.
It's either going to be the current port or the mini-USB but not both and certainly not on the side with a rubber thing hanging out.

[RichardF]

And before you know it the bottom of the iPhone will look like this...



Exactly. Mediocrity.

[kaioslider]

My guess is they'll just add the port in addition to the 30 pin. Or they could must make the micro-usb port standard and make and adaptor for the 30 pin. Or a removable flush mount module that could just be pulled out and swapped for the other. Actually, there are dozens of way's this can be implemented.

Regardless, even with the proprietary port, Apple has made the idea of using legacy accessories a moot point as they've changed the configuration (for good reason or not) so I guess it really doesn't matter.

[walnuts]

That is because the unit charges via Firewire which is no longer supported (it won't charge a 3G either).

What I find odd is I have a usb charger that wont charge the phone either. But it charges usb stuff just fine.

The 1st gen iPhone had firewire charging capability? That sounds wrong to me- my 5th gen ipod charged with this radio and would not charge with firewire.

[Rocketman]

If they want to standardize, why not standardize on the Apple 30 pin connector rather than Micro-USB? They have made it widely adopted. I would not object to micro USB on the base/end of the device as well as 30 pin. The problem which Apple in particular will run into is they are miniaturizing devices (Nano) to the point where the connector defines the device thickness and size. We saw how Apple resolved that with the micro-Shuffle. A custom layout 1/8" phone jack. Therefore the device could still get smaller. :)

Then we have to argue whether or not the first "standard" will support USB 3.0 so there is not a mid-course change in the "adoption of the standard".

I have micro-USB on a couple of cameras and like the plug, but an iPhone dock connector has more capabilities, and more to the point, socket into a wide variety of interesting accessories. A dock to micro USB adapter, perhaps including standard USB would be an easy solution.

Rocketman

[windywoo]

Take a look at all the fanboys complaining that there will perhaps be another port on their iPhone. **** your love of design, this is about reducing waste. That comes before any pretentious "objet d'art".

[DougB541]

If they want to standardize, why not standardize on the Apple 30 pin connector rather than Micro-USB? They have made it widely adopted. I would not object to micro USB on the base/end of the device as well as 30 pin. The problem which Apple in particular will run into is they are miniaturizing devices (Nano) to the point where the connector defines the device thickness and size. We saw how Apple resolved that with the micro-Shuffle. A custom layout 1/8" phone jack. Therefore the device could still get smaller. :)

Then we have to argue whether or not the first "standard" will support USB 3.0 so there is not a mid-course change in the "adoption of the standard".

I have micro-USB on a couple of cameras and like the plug, but an iPhone dock connector has more capabilities, and more to the point, socket into a wide variety of interesting accessories. A dock to micro USB adapter, perhaps including standard USB would be an easy solution.

Rocketman

Because not every phone company wants a 30 pin connector on their phone.

And it wouldn't make sense on most devices.


And apples wouldn't want other devices to work in iPod related devices. Plus there are a plethora pf devices that extend past a phone that use microUSB...that is already an open standard.

[ArcaneDevice]

Who in their right mind on this site would vote this news as negative?

Holy crap....Apple is actually following a future industry standard here and people find that negative?


Exactly. Apple have a ridiculous history of using proprietary connections. To get them to change to something standard is like making a kid eat their vegetables. They'll sulk and complain even if it's in their best interests.

The Apple world is littered with stupid connections that nobody else uses meaning you have to pay a premium for the Apple version.

If the reactions of users in this forum is to be followed then we would still be using IDE drives, ADC, ADB, etc.

[diamond.g]

The 1st gen iPhone had firewire charging capability? That sounds wrong to me- my 5th gen ipod charged with this radio and would not charge with firewire.
What model headunit are you using?

[Finiksa]

The 1st gen iPhone had firewire charging capability? That sounds wrong to me
Yes, the original iPhone does indeed charge via FireWire.

[dicklacara]

I was surprised to hear that various iPhones & Touches don't work with 3rd-party implementations of the dock connector interface.

I bought a Griffin car battery charger (cigarette lighter adapter) for my daughter's day-1 iPhone. It worked fine with any 2G iPhone. I just checked a 3G for the first time and it doesn't work... boo, hiss!

I have several Apple devices that are quite old:

--iPod-HiFi
--iPod Video to Component TV/Universal dock (for the iPod Video)

iPhones (2G, 3G, 3GS) all display an error message when connected, saying "This Accessory not made to work with iPhone...."

But you can just dismiss the message and the iPhone works as desired-- iPhone Boom Box, and iPhone Videos on HDTV.

So, I suspect that Apple tried to implement the devices in such a way as to not arbitrarily limit future compatibility.

Apparently, 3rd-parties did not do (or know how to do) this.

...curiouser and curiouser... I just checked and the Griffin charger (above) and it does work when the iPhone 3G & 3GS are connected with a Mophie JuicePack Air (3G/3GS Case/Battery with buit-in adapter).

I assume this means that information is available to 3rd-parties (Mophie, in this case) for them to a range of legacy, current and future devices using the dock connector.

Dick

[SAN66]

I'm all for reducing waste, but standardization can more often than not stifle innovation.

The next major step in industrial design in these regards is pinless inductive power delivery. Imaging your iPhone or iPod with absolutely no ports, no pins to break, no cracks to accidentally get liquids into. You plug your device into its cradle and it gets charged through induction.

Will we have any evolution in this regards if the EU is pushing this "standard"? Not in the EU. But at least they can move forward with such technologies in the rest of the world.

[krobar2003]

I noticed this too and it pissed me off. My Alpine stereo charged my iphone 2g just fine through the dock connector, but now it doesn't work. I hate feeling like they are doing things to simply force me to buy something else.


I had the same problem on my 3g the Apline deck would charge my 2g but not the new one. I bought a charging adapter from the apple store and everything works great. It was my understanding that the original iphone would charge off of a 12v source and a 5v source. The 3g will only charge off of 5v source. That's how it was explained to me.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TS696LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0MQ&mco=MjE1MDc5OQ

[RichardF]

Take a look at all the fanboys complaining that there will perhaps be another port on their iPhone. **** your love of design, this is about reducing waste. That comes before any pretentious "objet d'art".


I'll take the design over bending backwards to the "consensus" and the other OEMs.

History shows they have no clue and if anything, they should be adopting Apple's solutions.

What happens when the mini-USB is no longer a viable solution 3 years from now. Should we then do this all over again.

Let Apple handle it.

Exactly. Apple have a ridiculous history of using proprietary connections. To get them to change to something standard is like making a kid eat their vegetables. They'll sulk and complain even if it's in their best interests.

The Apple world is littered with stupid connections that nobody else uses meaning you have to pay a premium for the Apple version.

If the reactions of users in this forum is to be followed then we would still be using IDE drives, ADC, ADB, etc.


So does Sony and any other OEM who's worked hard to put something out there. So what's your point?

The difference is that Apple's solutions work well. They don't need input from Bruxelles or Samsung/ Sony/ Philips etc....

[johnqh]

Does the dock connector have "more features" than usb? Will data transfer rates suffer?

The docking connector has two interfaces, one is the standard USB, one is Apple's own.

Why did Apple do that?

Well, when a third party developer (or Apple itself) develop hardware accessory for the phone, if the protocol is USB, it is next to impossible to debug because the development tools communicate with the phone in USB.

So, Apple has its own protocol through the dock connector. Developers usually uses that protocol for the accessories, while still connected to XCode with USB for debugging.

I bet 99% of the "Made for iPhone/iPod" accessories are going through Apple's protocol.

USB is only used by the development tools and syncing.

[diamond.g]

I was surprised to hear that various iPhones & Touches don't work with 3rd-party implementations of the dock connector interface.

I bought a Griffin car battery charger (cigarette lighter adapter) for my daughter's day-1 iPhone. It worked fine with any 2G iPhone. I just checked a 3G for the first time and it doesn't work... boo, hiss!

I have several Apple devices that are quite old:

--iPod-HiFi
--iPod Video to Component TV/Universal dock (for the iPod Video)

iPhones (2G, 3G, 3GS) all display an error message when connected, saying "This Accessory not made to work with iPhone...."

But you can just dismiss the message and the iPhone works as desired-- iPhone Boom Box, and iPhone Videos on HDTV.

So, I suspect that Apple tried to implement the devices in such a way as to not arbitrarily limit future compatibility.

Apparently, 3rd-parties did not do (or know how to do) this.

...curiouser and curiouser... I just checked and the Griffin charger (above) and it does work when the iPhone 3G & 3GS are connected with a Mophie JuicePack Air (3G/3GS Case/Battery with buit-in adapter).

I assume this means that information is available to 3rd-parties (Mophie, in this case) for them to a range of legacy, current and future devices using the dock connector.

Dick

I had the same problem on my 3g the Apline deck would charge my 2g but not the new one. I bought a charging adapter from the apple store and everything works great. It was my understanding that the original iphone would charge off of a 12v source and a 5v source. The 3g will only charge off of 5v source. That's how it was explained to me.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TS696LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0MQ&mco=MjE1MDc5OQ
Yup that is the reason why. The Mophie (@dicklacara) must be able to charge via Firewire as well (12VDC).

[applecultvictim]

OMG!

I hope apple doesn't mess up the 10+ docks, sub docks, tivoli yiyis, alarm docks, stereo docks etc. I have pretty much everywhere from office to house to house in the country...that would suck...

Is there such a chance???!?!?!?:apple::confused:

[johnqh]

By the way, the best implementation of mini-USB (charger and syncing) is Motorola MPX100 (maybe 110 too?) from four years ago.

It has the connector on the bottom, with a dock which is just an adapter. With the dock, you can slide the phone in the same way as ipod/iphone.

Unfortunately, that design has not been carried through.

[H$R]

Standards are actually a good thing.

I guess there will just be an adapter included. Maybe a second port. It would be pretty bad/stupid to abandon the 30 pin connector.

And why shouldn't that make it to the USA? They won't have seperate designs for Europe and America.
Another port (or even a button more on the side, or heck even an SD slot for quick data exchange [I would have said that's never going to happen..but finally they were able to give us SD in the new Macbook Pros, so why not if there's enough place in the future?]) wouldn't hurt.

[Mr Skills]

This is European MPs in suits who have no idea of the consequences of their actions forcing something on everyone.

...

Forcing manufacturers into a particular specification without any regard or thought for the limitations it might present is what I'm against.

As I understand it, this is a voluntary agreement that Apple have signed up to. No-one has been forced to do anything.

[brockm]

Actually, i think they are going to make a converter to the 30pin dock connector. Because of the many more features the dock connector has over the usb connector.

With that i think they will support trough the converter the following options:
charging and Headset(Stereo + Voice)

What features are those? There's nothing that can't be done over USB that can be done with the 30-pin dock connector.

Parallel-ATA Cables have more pins than SATA. Does that mean they have more features?

[whatever]

The dock end of the cable will remain, the other end will be mini-USB. Which will then be able to plug into another vendors charger. That's all. Similar to the way USB and Firewire cables for iPods and iPhones are today.

That's all.

[RichardF]

As I understand it, this is a voluntary agreement that Apple have signed up to. No-one has been forced to do anything.


Excellent point there. Which in turns means that Apple already has a solution for this so no worries.



The dock end of the cable will remain, the other end will be mini-USB. Which will then be able to plug into another vendors charger. That's all. Similar to the way USB and Firewire cables for iPods and iPhones are today.

That's all.

I think you are right.

And the mini-USB into a mini-USB - standard USB adaptor if needed.

[Colrath]

I don't think the issue is just with smartphones.

But for every freaking phone on the market all have their own proprietary chargers/connectors. You walk into a verizon store and they have entire walls dedicated to charge 3 tables worth of phones.

Pretty stupid really.

[Spanky Deluxe]

While I can see some sense in this idea, I really wish they came up with a more sturdy connector. The Micro-USB connector is so damned flimsy and can't withstand being plugged in and out every day. The micro-usb connector on our TomTom failed after about six months and I've had several micro-usb connectors fail over the years too.

[ArcaneDevice]

So does Sony and any other OEM who's worked hard to put something out there. So what's your point?

The difference is that Apple's solutions work well. They don't need input from Bruxelles or Samsung/ Sony/ Philips etc....

Someone isn't speaking from history.

Apple is one of the only companies in mass market consumer electronics that still forces users to an Apple-only hardware solution. How many PC manufacturers forced you to use their hard drives, or video cards, or monitor cables etc.

If you were using Macs 10 years ago you would know what it was like being forced to by Apple only products when the equivalent PC version was dirt cheap. It still happens now. If you want to live in the past I've got a 120GB Mac IDE drive to sell you for $300.

If you don't mind spending up to three times as much because Apple added a connection that nobody else uses or adjusted the hardware then go ahead. I've got more sense than that.

There's nothing that an Apple interface adds to anything apart from cost and limited options. Work well? They work. That's it. And that doesn't make it any better than the jack that everyone else is happy to use.

[nerdish]

Urgh, i dont want this, 100% happy with the connection thats already on the iPhone, and i don't seem them totally wiping the 30 Pin off the phone completely, which means the USB will be ADDITIONAL to the original connection...

Thats going to look crap....

Bad move!

[Colrath]

While I can see some sense in this idea, I really wish they came up with a more sturdy connector. The Micro-USB connector is so damned flimsy and can't withstand being plugged in and out every day. The micro-usb connector on our TomTom failed after about six months and I've had several micro-usb connectors fail over the years too.

This is also my qualms about micro-usb. I just wouldn't feel safe with that small connector and how I manhandle my iPhone.

[aleksandra.]

Someone isn't speaking from history.

Apple is one of the only companies in mass market consumer electronics that still forces users to an Apple-only hardware solution. How many PC manufacturers forced you to use their hard drives, or video cards, or monitor cables etc.

If you were using Macs 10 years ago you would know what it was like being forced to by Apple only products when the equivalent PC version was dirt cheap. It still happens now. If you want to live in the past I've got a 120GB Mac IDE drive to sell you for $300.


No need to go 10 years back, they're using SATA-LIF for MacBook Air drives now... but then it's a part of SATA 6 Gb/s standard, so there's hope still.

[NT1440]

I really like the dock connector, micro usb has always felt cheap to me

[ArcaneDevice]

Urgh, i dont want this, 100% happy with the connection thats already on the iPhone, and i don't seem them totally wiping the 30 Pin off the phone completely, which means the USB will be ADDITIONAL to the original connection...

Thats going to look crap....

Bad move!

Ditch the 30-pin completely. There's no reason for it. If you're buying a new product I'm sure you can afford a $10 adapter for older devices using the 30-pin. Just like when Apple changed the spec and broke compatibility with iPod 1G products.

Apple change the dock connector and the next day a million dirt cheap adapters will be available in a variety of shades and materials. Obviously the Apple product will be twice as shiny and twice as expensive if you really need something that melds with your old stuff.

[ArcaneDevice]

No need to go 10 years back, they're using SATA-LIF for MacBook Air drives now... but then it's a part of SATA 6 Gb/s standard, so there's hope still.

and they're still using mini-DVI in the white Macbook.

It's stupid. So stupid that xlr8yourmac have spent over 10 years trying to figure out what non-Apple devices work on Macs. Their database is full of people trying to get what should be standard components to work in Macs.

[X38]

Terrible move if this is anything other than an adapter. I have too much invested in the current dock connector. I couldn't care less about mini USB.
This is NOT helpful for consumers.

[NT1440]

Arent there advantages with the dock over usb?

[Eidorian]

Better late than never.

[applecultvictim]

OMG!

I hope apple doesn't mess up the 10+ docks, sub docks, tivoli yiyis, alarm docks, stereo docks etc. I have pretty much everywhere from office to house to house in the country...that would suck...

Is there such a chance???!?!?!?:apple::confused:

[fmaxwell]

I'll take the design over bending backwards to the "consensus" and the other OEMs.

Fortunately, wiser people than you are running things.

What happens when the mini-USB is no longer a viable solution 3 years from now. Should we then do this all over again.

It's a charging connector. How will it become "no longer a viable solution 3 years from now"? It's a voltage and current across two electrical connections (positive and ground). Are you anticipating hydrogen-powered cell phones?

I'm all for reducing waste, but standardization can more often than not stifle innovation.

It prevents consumers from being forced to buy accessories from the company that manufactured the device. Want to buy a 3rd party iPod video dock? I have a spare because my new iPod Classic won't output video through the dock that worked with my 60GB iPod with Video. Interested in buying some cell phone car and home chargers? I have some for older cell phones from Sony, Motorola, and Nokia -- they don't work with my LG.

The next major step in industrial design in these regards is pinless inductive power delivery. Imaging your iPhone or iPod with absolutely no ports, no pins to break, no cracks to accidentally get liquids into. You plug your device into its cradle and it gets charged through induction.

Wow! That would be as advanced as the electric toothbrush I had 20 years ago that used inductive charging. But it's very unlikely to happen with an iPhone because it's really not compatible with a steel-cased, ultra-thin product. It requires a big honking coil if one is to get any kind of acceptable charge rate.

[DougB541]

OMG!

I hope apple doesn't mess up the 10+ docks, sub docks, tivoli yiyis, alarm docks, stereo docks etc. I have pretty much everywhere from office to house to house in the country...that would suck...

Is there such a chance???!?!?!?:apple::confused:

We heard you the first time.

[RichardF]

Someone isn't speaking from history.

Apple is one of the only companies in mass market consumer electronics that still forces users to an Apple-only hardware solution. How many PC manufacturers forced you to use their hard drives, or video cards, or monitor cables etc.

If you were using Macs 10 years ago you would know what it was like being forced to by Apple only products when the equivalent PC version was dirt cheap. It still happens now. If you want to live in the past I've got a 120GB Mac IDE drive to sell you for $300.

If you don't mind spending up to three times as much because Apple added a connection that nobody else uses or adjusted the hardware then go ahead. I've got more sense than that.

There's nothing that an Apple interface adds to anything apart from cost and limited options. Work well? They work. That's it. And that doesn't make it any better than the jack that everyone else is happy to use.



Arcane,

I am puzzled by your post. Am I the only one with no problems with Apple's products?

It isn't about paying more. I have a lot toys and I never have the need to cross things: use something from Apple on/ with another OEM's product and vice-versa.

Perhaps it is because I use each as they were intended to be used. Or perhaps because I have no legacy left-overs since I upgrade very often: I rarely keep any of my devices for more than two years.

Even if I didn't, what you point out doesn't only apply to Apple. All the other OEMs' history is also littered with failed and/ or phased-out ideas, concepts, designs, ports, plugs etc. Why single-out Apple?

Someone mentioned the MacBook Air (which I have also). What do I care what connector is used inside??? Who needs to pry their toys opened past the age of 8?

What's the problem with the mini-DVI? Use the provided mini-DVI to DVI adaptor and plug-in your LCD screen or projector. It works, no problem.

The proportion of the users/ customers who like to do this is so small that it really is tempting to remind them if they have a penchant for tinkering with their stuff, they should not be upset the OEM isn't making it easier for them to do so.

Someone else pointed-out that Apple joined this effort by choice so they probably already have a solution for this. I see no problems.

I just dislike the ones who think nothing of putting a mini-USB port on the "side" of the iPhone. If I wanted a Motorola or a Nokia or a SE, I'd buy that.

[mavfan11]

I like the move to micro-usb and when I first heard about this I wondered if apple would follow suit but they were quiet over the matter so just thought they weren't going to.

Apple is quiet over nearly everything. Apple's silence doesn't mean a thing! :p

[cg0def]

Actually, i think they are going to make a converter to the 30pin dock connector. Because of the many more features the dock connector has over the usb connector.

With that i think they will support trough the converter the following options:
charging and Headset(Stereo + Voice)

That would actually be the only smart move here. Especially since there are a lot of 3rd party devices using the dock connector ( speakers and such ).

[escap0]

Yeah right... There is no way Apple will do this. The whole point of it is so that it is NOT standardized. Apple wants to control all the peripherals for its phone. Without getting the dock-connector license you cannot make an Apple peripheral. Its called the 'Made For iPod Program (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)' and it is located here. (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)


And you think Apple will give that up? So that any Joe Schmo can make their crappy doodaad an iPhone accessory without the Apple go-ahead? So that any number of competitors can join that market without Apple approval?

Are you you completely high on Crack?

Apple will have the entire sky rain 30pin/usbmini adaptors for FREE before they do something like this.

[Sehnsucht]

Yeah right... There is no way Apple will do this. The whole point of it is so that it is NOT standardized. Apple wants to control all the peripherals for its phone. Without getting the dock-connector license you cannot make an Apple peripheral. Its called the 'Made For iPod Program (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)' and it is located here. (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)

And you think Apple will give that up? So that any Joe Schmo can make their crappy doodaad an iPhone accessory without the Apple go-ahead? So that any number of competitors can join that market without Apple approval?

Are you you completely high on Crack?

Apple will have the entire sky rain 30pin/usbmini adaptors for FREE before they do something like this.

This post made me chuckle, and I do agree completely.

Apple would rather die than release several different models of iPhone, and they also wouldn't want a micro-USB port on the iPhone either. Yes, the 30-pin dock is proprietary, but there might be a reason for that!

Teh Government better not start meddling with my electronic gadgets. :mad:

[alhedges]

Yeah right... There is no way Apple will do this. The whole point of it is so that it is NOT standardized. Apple wants to control all the peripherals for its phone. Without getting the dock-connector license you cannot make an Apple peripheral. Its called the 'Made For iPod Program (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)' and it is located here. (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)




This is not true. Any developer can make an iPod peripheral without participating in the "Made For iPod" program. They just don't get to use the "Made for iPod" logo.

And it would be different if "Made for iPod" were actually a guarantee of quality, or, more to the point, a guarantee that Apple won't break compatibility with existing products next year.

[FrerkLovesApple]

The idea of the mini-USB connector as a standard is good, but not for iPhone. First of all it just doesn't match the design everybody knows (May be my view; Apple switched to 30-pin connectors with the iPod), second, it will cause problems with accessories.

[t0mat0]

Yeah right... There is no way Apple will do this. The whole point of it is so that it is NOT standardized. Apple wants to control all the peripherals for its phone. Without getting the dock-connector license you cannot make an Apple peripheral. Its called the 'Made For iPod Program (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)' and it is located here. (http://developer.apple.com/ipod/)


And you think Apple will give that up? So that any Joe Schmo can make their crappy doodaad an iPhone accessory without the Apple go-ahead? So that any number of competitors can join that market without Apple approval?

Are you you completely high on Crack?

Apple will have the entire sky rain 30pin/usbmini adaptors for FREE before they do something like this.


I think it's worth linking in the fact that Apple talked about opening up the dock connector, and also using BT to connect to the iPhone (and to that end, potentially new iPods, which could then use wifi if they got wifi this September). Why would Apple be looking at making a huge increase in number of accessories, then say they'd go miniUSB?
I'd say the two are connected - we haven't actually seen, bar the TomTom dock, anything as far as I know, accessory wise really. I'd imagine Apple will be keeping in mind what USB 3 could do for the iPhone.

Could they put the dock connector and the mini USB side by side? http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/media/tracyandmatts_blog/windowslivewriter/appleiphone3greview_5762/iphone_bottom_2.jpg

To keep old accessories working, they couldn't shift the 30 pin connector to one side, and there doesn't seem to be enough room either side unless they changed the speaker position a fair bit.

[SAN66]

Wow! That would be as advanced as the electric toothbrush I had 20 years ago that used inductive charging. But it's very unlikely to happen with an iPhone because it's really not compatible with a steel-cased, ultra-thin product. It requires a big honking coil if one is to get any kind of acceptable charge rate.

Yes because we haven't had any advancement in power induction in the past 20 years. I'm not talking about wireless power, I'm talking about close contact induction and hey look there's already a third party company offering this for the iphone (http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/06/iphone-and-ipod-touch-get-inductive-charging/).

But no, we should just stick with standardizing a connection type that by all rights should be obsolete within the next 4-5 years.

I'd rather the money being poured into this be spent on charger recycling programs along with cellphone recycling programs.

[SFStateStudent]

I just don't trust the mini-USB thing. I had a RAZOR and a KRZR and the damn things kept getting unplugged rather easily. I'll never own one.....:eek::eek::eek:

[ChrisA]

They will not do away with the 30 pin dock adaptor. This is European MPs in suits who have no idea of the consequences of their actions forcing something on everyone. The aim is to keep everything 'simpler' for the average user so they don't get confused about which of 20 different chargers to use.

NO. The goal is not "simpler".

The reason for this is to keep many minillion s of old chargers out of landfills. The idea is to sell new phones with no chargers at all. This can only work if people can re-use their old charger from the old phone and only replace the charger when needed, not every time the phone is replaced.

It sounds like a small thing. But there are factories in china building hundreds of millions of chargers and every one of these will go in the trash in a few years.

[aristotle]

I would take this "news" with a grain of salt. If anything, Apple might provide a small adaptor similar to what my Sony HDR-TG1 camera offers which is a small dongle for connecting the dock connector of the camera to USB.

I don't see Apple shooting themselves in the foot by making their iPhones incompatible with the large ecosystem built around the iPod.

Just go into any store with electronics and you will see speaker systems, alarm clock and even TVs designed to work with the iPod. The dock connector not only supplies data like USB but also offers video and audio out as well as control signals for using a remote on a dock to control your iPod/iPhone.

MicroUSB is inferior. This would be a step backwards if Apple abandoned the dock connector.

Speaking as a European citizen, I think the government should mind their own business and let the industry figure things out of themselves.

[omegaphil6]

I know i dont want no effin Micro-USB.... Dock Connectors are perfect. Keep that micro-USB Crap overseas. As a family we have over 10 ipods and 6 iphones and no matter where you are in the house or who's car you are in you always have access to a 30pin dock connector. Its wonderful!:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

[macadam212]

As others have said, they are not about to ditch their very popular and very functional connector, to fall into line with other companies, so I expect they will include an adaptor with all new iPhones. It will probably look a bit like this ...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9646/usbc.jpg

[Gm7Cadd9]

I've read most of the posts here and this appears to be a heated topic!

I have to say, the 30-pin dock adapter has many advantages over mini-usb, and I can see Apple providing a free adapter to quell the over-reaching governments long before abandoning their connector.

The iPhone is a wonderful piece of engineering, no wasted space. It wouldn't be easy to add a second port, not by a long shot. I believe the 30-pin connector is aesthetically better, has room to grow and is widely adopted already.

This brings me to my main point that I feel is overlooked so far. There is an impassioned group on here who say that the greater good is to adopt micro-usb, not because it's better, but because it would cut down on the need for extraneous cables and adapters/waste.... but what about the millions of products out there with the 30-pin dock connector????

Governments should not intervene with the design no matter how much they claim to be looking out for the consumer's best interests. If the consumer is ill informed that's on them, if the consumer wants a micro-usb phone they have the choice to buy one... no one is forcing anyone to buy iPods and iPhones.

[andrew0122]

As others have said, they are not about to ditch their very popular and very functional connector, to fall into line with other companies, so I expect they will include an adaptor with all new iPhones. It will probably look a bit like this ...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9646/usbc.jpg

I think the entire point is to make it easier to charge you device, not add an extra accessary that you'd have to carry around. Not a bad idea though.

[windywoo]

But no, we should just stick with standardizing a connection type that by all rights should be obsolete within the next 4-5 years.

I'd rather the money being poured into this be spent on charger recycling programs along with cellphone recycling programs.

4-5 years is still much longer than the average cell phone lifecycle. Or at least longer than most companies stick to the same model of charger.

I would be for the money being put into recycling programs if, at the same time, the companies who made the rechargers were forced to put money into those schemes as well. It should be the responsibility of the manufacturers to deal with the waste they produce.

[McDughf]

Who in their right mind on this site would vote this news as negative?


Holy crap....Apple is actually following a future industry standard here and people find that negative?

Its a tiny port...get over it.
http://www.intomobile.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/razr2_tour_img_0847_605.jpg

Yeah, And look How Crappy That Looks - Totally Un -Apple Like ;)

[andrew0122]

I've read most of the posts here and this appears to be a heated topic!

I have to say, the 30-pin dock adapter has many advantages over mini-usb, and I can see Apple providing a free adapter to quell the over-reaching governments long before abandoning their connector.

The iPhone is a wonderful piece of engineering, no wasted space. It wouldn't be easy to add a second port, not by a long shot. I believe the 30-pin connector is aesthetically better, has room to grow and is widely adopted already.

This brings me to my main point that I feel is overlooked so far. There is an impassioned group on here who say that the greater good is to adopt micro-usb, not because it's better, but because it would cut down on the need for extraneous cables and adapters/waste.... but what about the millions of products out there with the 30-pin dock connector????

Governments should not intervene with the design no matter how much they claim to be looking out for the consumer's best interests. If the consumer is ill informed that's on them, if the consumer wants a micro-usb phone they have the choice to buy one... no one is forcing anyone to buy iPods and iPhones.

I agree I think that Apple has put themselves into a position that more than qualifies them for having their own propriety adapter. Just look at the number of iPhone and iPod touch sales alone. Over 40 MILLION and still growing and those aren't the only Apple products that use the 30 Pin. The iPod Classic and Nano, both use the 30 Pin Connecters as well.

[moracity]

Apple could still use the 30 pin dock connector and have a micro-usb somewhere on the side.


I like the move to micro-usb and when I first heard about this I wondered if apple would follow suit but they were quiet over the matter so just thought they weren't going to.

Bingo! This is only in regards to charging. There is already a USB controller, so should be fairly trivial to add the port.

[Craiger77]

Many posters here are confusing micro USB (the standard adopted by the EU) with mini USB so I though I would post these from Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Types-usb_new.svg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/USB_types_2.jpg

Micro USB is on the far left.

[whatever]

Please people, this entire discussion is stupid.

Like I said before, it's about the cable.

One end with still be the standard dock connector and the other end will be for Micro USB.

The power adapter will have a Micro USB port instead of the normal USB or Firewire. It will look like this:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB352LL/B?fnode=MTY1NDA0MQ&mco=MjQzNTIxNw

Apple will not bundle this with the iPhone, it will be offered separately.

[thibaulthalpern]

YIKES! I hope this is not the end of the dock connector. The dock connector, as others have said, have a lot more capabilities (video out, audio out, firewire charging, etc.) than a USB connector. Wouldn't it be sufficient if Apple simply supplied a cable that had the dock connector on one end and micro USB connector on the other end? Or perhaps this is what actually Apple will do.

[aleksandra.]

Please people, this entire discussion is stupid.

Like I said before, it's about the cable.

One end with still be the standard dock connector and the other end will be for Micro USB.

The power adapter will have a Micro USB port instead of the normal USB or Firewire. It will look like this:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB352LL/B?fnode=MTY1NDA0MQ&mco=MjQzNTIxNw

Apple will not bundle this with the iPhone, it will be offered separately.

Except you wouldn't be able to connect it to any computer with the said cable, so a normal USB would have to be included as well. I don't think they're going to double the number of cables they bundle.

Note that in the long run, it wouldn't be Apple supplying the charger (of course they would be able to make their own, but it would have to work with any other smartphone). So they can't step around this with their own charger, even if it was open-standard. They would need to provide a way for charging iPhone without having to use a device utilizing their proprietary dock connector.

[thibaulthalpern]

I cant imagine apple getting rid of the 30 pin, its been around since day one and if they change the iPhone then it would be at odds with the rest of the ipod line. While I dont think that an adapter is likely I could see them providing a dock with a micro-usb connector with the iPhone.

To be fair, iPod hasn't had the 30-pin dock connector since day one. The first generation iPod (which I owned and it was only 5GB) used a direct FireWire connector. Subsequent generations then did use the dock connector.

[thibaulthalpern]

It's about time. Apple is particularly bad in this.:mad:



After getting my iphone 3GS i realized that i can't charge it with any of my old ipod chargers although they have a dock connector.

I also can't use the European charger and my car charger that worked perfectly for my iphone 2g anymore.

Apple please explain to me why a charger that could easily charge my iphone 2g can not charge my iphone 3GS?:confused:

Because probably the chargers you have were charging via FireWire. New generation iPod touch and iPhone can no longer charge using the FireWire pins of the dock connector.

[iphones4evry1]

I think that initially Apple will make an adapter that goes between the phone and the powercord, but eventually, I think Apple will adopt the standard because this is a large consortium of cell phone manufacturers that agreed to have a standard, and according to the article, Apple is part of the consortium. The point of this standard is environmental; to reduce waste of people throwing out their old cords, and also to create a standard so that if you ask another person if you can use their cell phone charger for a few minutes, you won't be out of luck.

I really don't see any difference; both connectors transfer data at the same speed.
.

[Anuba]

This standard is dumb. Why would the micro-USB be on the power adapter's end of things? The whole point of micro-USB is to have the smallest possible port on the device itself, e.g. a phone, a GPS navigator, an MP3 player etc. They should've just adapted Apple's concept with a normal size USB port on the AC adapter, then they can put whatever the hell they want on the other end of the cable... micro USB, Apple 30-pin, a tesla coil, a carrot...

[aleksandra.]

I really don't see any difference; both connectors transfer data at the same speed.

It is going to be micro-USB, not mini-USB, as someone already pointed out here http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7975560&postcount=100 .

[Anuba]

It is going to be micro-USB, not mini-USB, as someone already pointed out here http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7975560&postcount=100 .
The one on the right.

http://www.intomobile.com/images/2007/05/27/motorola_razr2_v8img_3995.jpg

[whatever]

Except you wouldn't be able to connect it to any computer with the said cable, so a normal USB would have to be included as well. I don't think they're going to double the number of cables they bundle.

Note that in the long run, it wouldn't be Apple supplying the charger (of course they would be able to make their own, but it would have to work with any other smartphone). So they can't step around this with their own charger, even if it was open-standard. They would need to provide a way for charging iPhone without having to use a device utilizing their proprietary dock connector.

I said Apple will not be bundling this Micro USB cable.

If you want a Micro USB kit, you will need to buy it separately.

[aleksandra.]

I said Apple will not be bundling this Micro USB cable.

If you want a Micro USB kit, you will need to buy it separately.

OK. So what if I had another phone which was charged via mini-USB, and then I got an iPhone? The whole point of this standardization is that an old charger can be used with a new phone. So, I should be able to charge iPhone with a previously used charger. Without any proprietary cables. It has to work both ways.

I know it may be hard to believe, but it isn't just about Apple. It isn't about forcing Apple to allow using third-party chargers with iPhone. It's phone makers agreeing to have all their smartphones using the same, interchangeable chargers. Without proprietary cables.

[iphones4evry1]

The one on the right.

http://www.intomobile.com/images/2007/05/27/motorola_razr2_v8img_3995.jpg

Thank you. How is the durability of those? With a regular-size USB plug, you can plug it in in a dark room without being afraid you are going to break a pin. In fact, you can be pretty harsh/brutal with it and it would take a lot to break it. But with the charger on my motorola RAZR, I had to be very careful because it had pins, and I didn't want to bend the pins. So, with this new USB standard, are these plugs durable (child-proof), and do they have pins or no?
Thanks. :)

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/09/Mini_Micro_2.jpg
Gizmodo: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/cell-makers-agree-on-a-single-charging-plug-302320.php

.

[manu chao]

This standard is dumb. Why would the micro-USB be on the power adapter's end of things? The whole point of micro-USB is to have the smallest possible port on the device itself, e.g. a phone, a GPS navigator, an MP3 player etc. They should've just adapted Apple's concept with a normal size USB port on the AC adapter, then they can put whatever the hell they want on the other end of the cable... micro USB, Apple 30-pin, a tesla coil, a carrot...
Since the 'standard' allows for the fulfillment via an adaptor, Apple already fulfills it. Their USB-Dock-Connector cable is exactly this, USB on one end, phone on the other. What the people writing the standard did not envisage, was that instead of insisting on a miniUSB port on the phone, it would be much, much smarter to separate the charger from the cable leading to the phone and standardize the connection on the charger (as Apple has done it for years). Why nobody else is using that concept of separating the charger from the cable, is beyond me. With Apple's solution, it does not matter what you want to use as a charger, just find a USB port (the probably most universal connection to be found today, even more universal than any power socket).

[fmaxwell]

Yes because we haven't had any advancement in power induction in the past 20 years."

No, we have not. Zero. Zilch. None. Physics has not changed in 20 years. It's simple transformer design.

I'm not talking about wireless power, I'm talking about close contact induction and hey look there's already a third party company offering this for the iphone (http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/06/iphone-and-ipod-touch-get-inductive-charging/).

HAHAHAHA! That's not "inductive charging" at all. It relies on electrical contacts in the skin making contact with the electrical contacts on the pad. From their own "how it works" explanation:

"Once a compatible electronic device is placed on the WildCharger pad, power is transferred from the pad’s surface through the contact-points to the WildCharge adapter and into the device. The geometries of the charging surface and the contact-points guarantee that regardless of where the device is placed on the pad’s surface, a closed electrical circuit is formed between the surface and the device. Such direct contact allows for a very efficient and safe power transfer without generating harmful radiation or magnetic fields. Inductive chargers would have "magnetic fields," so there's proof-positive that they are not using inductive charging and that inductive charging has a real downside. If you don't even understand the technology, perhaps you should leave engineering to engineers (like me).

But no, we should just stick with standardizing a connection type that by all rights should be obsolete within the next 4-5 years.

Yes, we should invest in a standard connector -- and they chose a really good standard from a physical and electrical standpoint. There is no reason, whatsoever, to claim that it "should be obsolete within the next 4-5 years." It's compact, carries an adequate level of current, and an appropriate voltage. It's a charging standard -- not a data standard. Get over it.

I'd rather the money being poured into this be spent on charger recycling programs along with cellphone recycling programs.

Recycling just somewhat reduces environmental damage; it does not eliminate it. It doesn't magically get rid of the pollution created in the manufacture of the recycled devices. It doesn't recapture the energy used to run the injection molding machines, wave soldering machines, pick-and-place equipment.

Nor does recycling allow an auto manufacturer to put a standard charging cable into a storage compartment. It doesn't let me use the same cable to charge my phone, my girlfriend's phone, my Bluetooth headset, her Bluetooth headset, etc. Recycling does not keep someone on a limited budget from having to buy all new chargers for their office and car.

And, believe it or not, it's not all about you. Standards are there to help everyone.

[manu chao]

OK. So what if I had another phone which was charged via mini-USB, and then I got an iPhone? The whole point of this standardization is that an old charger can be used with a new phone. So, I should be able to charge iPhone with a previously used charger. Without any proprietary cables. It has to work both ways.
Why has the cable be part of the charger? I use my iPod or iPhone charger maybe two or three times per year, normally I charge via computers. On a lot of iPod model Apple did not and does not ship a charger at all, just a cable. How is that for avoiding the production of unnecessary chargers?

[manu chao]

Yes, we should invest in a standard connector -- and they chose a really good standard from a physical and electrical standpoint. There is no reason, whatsoever, to claim that it "should be obsolete within the next 4-5 years." It's compact, carries an adequate level of current, and an appropriate voltage. It's a charging standard -- not a data standard. Get over it.

Nor does recycling allow an auto manufacturer to put a standard charging cable into a cell phone storage department.
I fully agree, but what stops the car manufacturers to put a USB port (any kind, adaptor cables are cheap) into the car? Yes, a universal connector on the phone is even better, but equipping all phones with a cable that can connect to a USB port for charging is such a simple thing, that I do not understand why people have not done it already.

[MedHead]

Please people, this entire discussion is stupid.

Like I said before, it's about the cable.

One end with still be the standard dock connector and the other end will be for Micro USB.

The power adapter will have a Micro USB port instead of the normal USB or Firewire. It will look like this:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB352LL/B?fnode=MTY1NDA0MQ&mco=MjQzNTIxNw

Apple will not bundle this with the iPhone, it will be offered separately.

I disagree the whole point of the standardisation is so that the charger cable connects to the phone by micro-usb.

[aleksandra.]

Why has the cable be part of the charger? I use my iPod or iPhone charger maybe two or three times per year, normally I charge via computers. On a lot of iPod model Apple did not and does not ship a charger at all, just a cable. How is that for avoiding the production of unnecessary chargers?

It's clearly stated in the future chargers won't be included with phones free of charge.

I use my iPod charger rarely as well, so I kind of understand your point, but including the cable in the standard has its advantages as well. You don't have to change cables with the phone = less waste. You can use someone else's charger without having to carry your cable with you even if you have different phones = more convenient. The best solution would be perhaps to split the standard in a charger with USB port and a micro-USB cable to connect the phone to it (or to a computer).

[iphones4evry1]

car manufacturers to put a USB port (any kind, adaptor cables are cheap) into the car?

It's about time the car manufacturers did away with having so many "cigarette plugs" and added a USB plug for BOTH data and charging (like a computer does for your iPhone). The USB plug would be your music (and data) interface and your charger. You could just use your current iPhone USB cord to plug into the USB like you do your computer.

[MedHead]

For those of you dreading standardization coming to the use check out the last few lines of this... (http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=7372)

[diamond.g]

It's about time the car manufacturers did away with having so many "cigarette plugs" and added a USB plug for BOTH data and charging (like a computer does for your iPhone). The USB plug would be your music (and data) interface and your charger. You could just use your current iPhone USB cord to plug into the USB like you do your computer.
Most likely because the USB port cannot provide enough power for the range of devices that can run off the cigarette lighter port. I sure would be interested in seeing a Macbook powered from a USB port...

[iphones4evry1]

Most likely because the USB port cannot provide enough power for the range of devices that can run off the cigarette lighter port. I sure would be interested in seeing a Macbook powered from a USB port...

That's why I didn't suggest completely replacing cigarette ports. Right now, I have one on my dash, one in my glove box, and one in my center console compartment. I meant to replace one of those with a USB port since we won't be needing the cigarette port to charge our cell phones any more.

[fmaxwell]

I fully agree, but what stops the car manufacturers to put a USB port (any kind, adaptor cables are cheap) into the car? Yes, a universal connector on the phone is even better, but equipping all phones with a cable that can connect to a USB port for charging is such a simple thing, that I do not understand why people have not done it already.

I put a pair of USB power ports into my car as well as an in-glove-box USB that allows my Alpine head unit to play from my 32GB thumb drive or my iPod Classic.

I think that the reason that more have not is two-fold: First, too many devices are not electrically compatible with the 5V USB standard. Some phones use 6V or higher chargers. Second, if you put it there, some numb-nuts is going to wonder why he can't interface his laptop to his Camaro as he attempts to make his own Knight Rider car.

Once all of the phones, headsets, GPS units, etc. standardize, it will be in every new car sold.

[JoeG4]

I think it's dubious, note how the point was really to stop selling phones with chargers!

Ugh I love the way European countries do things, they can't get people to willingly adopt so they force them.

[mlts22]

I am glad the EU went with the MicroUSB spec, as opposed to Mini-USB. The main reason is insertion cycles. MicroUSB can do 10,000 times the insertion and removal cycles as mini-usb, and the springs to hold the connection together are in the cable on micro, as opposed to being part of the connector with the mini -- easier to replace a cable than a device.

[windywoo]

Ugh I love the way European countries do things, they can't get people to willingly adopt so they force them.

What are you talking about? The phone companies never offered the option themselves to their customers, they had to be forced. How likely is it that greedy mutinational companies are going to adopt a standard that will lose them money but is better for customers and the environment?

[kernkraft]

They will not do away with the 30 pin dock adaptor. This is European MPs in suits who have no idea of the consequences of their actions forcing something on everyone. The aim is to keep everything 'simpler' for the average user so they don't get confused about which of 20 different chargers to use.

That I'm all for. Forcing manufacturers into a particular specification without any regard or thought for the limitations it might present is what I'm against. Same fiasco as with European software patents.

The manufacturers had two choices - either to let the EU rule about the matter or to propose their own solution. They chose the latter. Frankly, they should have done it years and years ago. I don't know, why they want to stick with that particular technology, but it is obvious, that the present situation doesn't benefit consumers nor technological development and it is wasteful. I have a box full of phone chargers and often when I go abroad, I have to buy new ones. It's just ridiculous! Is there any open-source standard that could be even better? After all, the mini-USB might attract a license fee.

[Anuba]

Thank you. How is the durability of those? With a regular-size USB plug, you can plug it in in a dark room without being afraid you are going to break a pin. In fact, you can be pretty harsh/brutal with it and it would take a lot to break it. But with the charger on my motorola RAZR, I had to be very careful because it had pins, and I didn't want to bend the pins. So, with this new USB standard, are these plugs durable (child-proof), and do they have pins or no?
Thanks. :)
I'm not sure about durability, but it looks like this one will be joining a long list of plugs that will drive you crazy when you're trying to insert them without looking (i.e. in the dark or on the back panel of some device).

Round plugs are the best, you always find the hole. (That's what she said)

Flat ones like Apple's magsafe and the power plug on Mac Mini are good because they go in either way so all you have to do is find the hole.

Fullsize USB and 6-pin firewire 400 are OK... you have a 50% chance of getting it wrong but then you just flip it around 180 degrees.

DVI, 4-pin firewire, 9-pin firewire and Mini USB are hopeless, you have to see what you're doing.

This micro-USB one looks like it belongs in the last category, the ones you can't insert blindly, but due to the flat shape you'll probably think you got it right so you'll try to push it in when it's upside down.

[SAN66]

I'm not sure about durability, but it looks like this one will be joining a long list of plugs that will drive you crazy when you're trying to insert them without looking (i.e. in the dark or on the back panel of some device).

Round plugs are the best, you always find the hole. (That's what she said)

Flat ones like Apple's magsafe and the power plug on Mac Mini are good because they go in either way so all you have to do is find the hole.

Fullsize USB and 6-pin firewire 400 are OK... you have a 50% chance of getting it wrong but then you just flip it around 180 degrees.

DVI, 4-pin firewire, 9-pin firewire and Mini USB are hopeless, you have to see what you're doing.

This micro-USB one looks like it belongs in the last category, the ones you can't insert blindly, but due to the flat shape you'll probably think you got it right so you'll try to push it in when it's upside down.

+1 And trying to insert micro-USB blindly can result in broken pins and then you have to replace the cable which defeats the purpose of what they're trying to do.

As I stated before this imposed standardization simply stifles innovation, companies should come to agreements, but they should still innovate and not have things forced upon them by governing bodies. I would love to see a magsafe power/communications connector or some other less pin oriented connector in the future on ipods or iPhones, but if they decide to "stick with the standard" they would be less likely to expend R&D towards these endeavors.

[windywoo]

Oh what bollocks. Without USB would there be such a wide range of peripherals that support Mac and PC? Without Bluetooth how would you share files between phones and computers? Without standards how would phones even talk to each other?

[aristotle]

The manufacturers had two choices - either to let the EU rule about the matter or to propose their own solution. They chose the latter. Frankly, they should have done it years and years ago. I don't know, why they want to stick with that particular technology, but it is obvious, that the present situation doesn't benefit consumers nor technological development and it is wasteful. I have a box full of phone chargers and often when I go abroad, I have to buy new ones. It's just ridiculous! Is there any open-source standard that could be even better? After all, the mini-USB might attract a license fee.
Sorry but why should I give a crap about the other phone brands. I think it's great that the companies are agreeing on a standard but that should not mean that everyone has to get rid of their existing port especially if there is a ecosystem designed around it like with the iPod/iPhone docking port.

I've had crappy Nokia, Motorola and Samsung phones with their crappy chargers but now I don't give a damn since I have an iPhone.

[Penguinwrangler]

Actually, I can Imagine Apple modifying the 30 pin connector on the iPhone and iPods to allow a micro USB cable to be plugged in, too. Micro-USB is pretty thin, and some sort of funnel construction inside could guide the micro USB jack to the right place. This would make the 30 pin cables and micro-USB work, without killing the design.

Duh Duh Duh Duh Duh. Apple is ALL about everything having dual-functionality in their software UI, why would their hardware design be any different???

[mrscribble]

Sorry but why should I give a crap about the other phone brands.

Because other people do! Apple don't make every phone out there, and a lot of people are given phones by their work. Standardisation should've happened years ago - no more asking around for chargers: "Has anyone got a Samsung charger? No, the other one. Or maybe it's the other one..." And far, far less waste.

I think it's great that the companies are agreeing on a standard but that should not mean that everyone has to get rid of their existing port especially if there is a ecosystem designed around it like with the iPod/iPhone docking port.

Where did you read that everyone has to get rid of their existing port?

I've had crappy Nokia, Motorola and Samsung phones with their crappy chargers but now I don't give a damn since I have an iPhone.

Because you might buy a different phone brand someday?

[Sehnsucht]

This standard is dumb. Why would the micro-USB be on the power adapter's end of things? The whole point of micro-USB is to have the smallest possible port on the device itself, e.g. a phone, a GPS navigator, an MP3 player etc. They should've just adapted Apple's concept with a normal size USB port on the AC adapter, then they can put whatever the hell they want on the other end of the cable... micro USB, Apple 30-pin, a tesla coil, a carrot...

Round plugs are the best, you always find the hole. (That's what she said)

:D:D:D:D


What's with the "micro" stuff, folks? Why not something big like this:

http://www.techfuels.com/attachments/motherboards-memory/7059d1224763782-motherboards-power-connector-motherboards-power-connector.jpg

External Molex connectors...now we're talking! :p

[diamond.g]

I'm not sure about durability, but it looks like this one will be joining a long list of plugs that will drive you crazy when you're trying to insert them without looking (i.e. in the dark or on the back panel of some device).

Round plugs are the best, you always find the hole. (That's what she said)

Flat ones like Apple's magsafe and the power plug on Mac Mini are good because they go in either way so all you have to do is find the hole.

Fullsize USB and 6-pin firewire 400 are OK... you have a 50% chance of getting it wrong but then you just flip it around 180 degrees.

DVI, 4-pin firewire, 9-pin firewire and Mini USB are hopeless, you have to see what you're doing.

This micro-USB one looks like it belongs in the last category, the ones you can't insert blindly, but due to the flat shape you'll probably think you got it right so you'll try to push it in when it's upside down.
Don't you have a similar problem with the dock connector?

[locovaca]

I think it's dubious, note how the point was really to stop selling phones with chargers!

Ugh I love the way European countries do things, they can't get people to willingly adopt so they force them.

Yes, because I'm sure you always did the right thing as a kid and not because your parents told you to.

[Anuba]

Don't you have a similar problem with the dock connector?
Not really... it's never on the back of anything, you have it right in front of you when you insert it, and it would have to be pretty damn dark for me to not be able to see that big ol' symbol on one side of the (white) dock connector.

The connector is pretty big though, do the really need all those pins? Some of them are probably for firewire which iPods haven't supported for ages. Something like micro-USB would allow them to shrink the iPod Nano, and put a bigger speaker (or even stereo speakers... silly but whatever) on the iPhone. But they'd lose video and audio output of course.

:D:D:D:D


What's with the "micro" stuff, folks? Why not something big like this:

http://www.techfuels.com/attachments/motherboards-memory/7059d1224763782-motherboards-power-connector-motherboards-power-connector.jpg

External Molex connectors...now we're talking! :p
Hell yeah! Give us something fat and sturdy, like a Scart connector. Sure, it's bigger than the power adapter and probably bigger than the cellphone too, but that's easily fixed by making those much bigger.

http://tech.petegraham.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/scart.jpg

I love Scart connectors because they're so easy to insert. You just reach inside the dark and cramped cabinet where your DVD player is, and the connector just slides into the port effortlessly. After 6,000 failed attempts. I love the cables too, they're so flexible and thin.

[FX120]

IMO micro USB is retarded. It's not really any smaller footprint wise than mini-USB, just slimmer, harder to insert, and much more fragile.

I'd rather see Apple start putting something like extUSB on their devices. That way all the additional functions of the 30-pin dock connector, like analog audio and video out are still there, while remaining pin-compatable with existing mini-usb cables which are found on virtually any other portable device these days.

http://images.wmexperts.com/articleimages/2008/11/extusb.png

[Habakuk]

A German blog writes:

"This EU commitment needs no changes in relation to the dock connector in future iPhones. 'The signed memorandum gives manufacturers the option to settle an adapter for connection to the universal charge,' said Apple spokesperson George Albrecht."

http://www.fscklog.com/2009/06/apple-verpflichtet-sich-zu-universellem-ladegerät-für-künftige-eu-iphones.html

Does nobody use the Apple AV cable?

iPhone as YouTube Remote Control for TV Sets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0JjLstblHk

[3247]

A bit surprised to see Apple among the companies, but happily so. I guess the EU threat "standardize, or we'll regulate" didn't hurt.I guess that the Chinese threat "comply with our regulation, or don't sell in China" has been more effective. The EU was only a secondary theater. The reason companies gave in to the Commission so quickly is simply that they were planning to switch to Micro-USB anyway in order to sell their phones in China.

Of course, they could make a special version for China. However, it's probably more economic to sell the same product everywhere.

As many others, I find it hard to believe the dock connector is going anywhere, but micro usb for charging wouldn't be too complicated or too costly to add in addition to the dock connector. Also, all reporting I've seen so far is about charging, so having a micro usb connector won't necessarily mean than the connector can to be used for anything other than for charging...That would be extremely stupid. The whole point of using Micro-USB (not Mini-USB, BTW) is that you have to carry a single cable which can be used for charging (using a computer or a USB power supply) and data transfer.
While I can see some sense in this idea, I really wish they came up with a more sturdy connector. The Micro-USB connector is so damned flimsy and can't withstand being plugged in and out every day. The micro-usb connector on our TomTom failed after about six months and I've had several micro-usb connectors fail over the years too.Probably not. Micro-USB was introduced in 2007. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Mini-USB?
This standard is dumb. Why would the micro-USB be on the power adapter's end of things?Why would you think that this be the case?
Just because some clueless person, who even mixes up Micro- and Mini-USB, said so?
The whole point of micro-USB is to have the smallest possible port on the device itself, e.g. a phone, a GPS navigator, an MP3 player etc. They should've just adapted Apple's concept with a normal size USB port on the AC adapter, then they can put whatever the hell they want on the other end of the cable... micro USB, Apple 30-pin, a tesla coil, a carrot...
… and you'd still have to carry different cables. Of course, having cables filling up landfills is an improvement over having wall warts filling up landfills.

I've had crappy Nokia, Motorola and Samsung phones with their crappy chargers but now I don't give a damn since I have an iPhone.Actually, Nokia's chargers are quite good: They're one of the most efficient (green) chargers available.
If Apple products had an Micro-USB (not Mini-USB, BTW) connector, it would make sense to buy Nokia chargers for them.
I am glad the EU went with the MicroUSB spec, as opposed to Mini-USB. The main reason is insertion cycles. MicroUSB can do 10,000 times the insertion and removal cycles as mini-usb, and the springs to hold the connection together are in the cable on micro, as opposed to being part of the connector with the mini -- easier to replace a cable than a device.Another reason, of course, could be Mini-USB having been deprecated (http://www.usb.org/developers/Deprecation_Announcement_052507.pdf) by USB-IF (http://www.usb.org).

[Drag'nGT]

The mini USB has been a good idea for a while now. It kills a good bit of the companies accessory sales but who cares. I want the whole US to make driving with out a bluetooth headset illegal. Anyway, I just hope the 30 pin is kept on the phone so all my accessories and the new ones on the way like the Tom Tom dock will work for old and new phones.

[Rodimus Prime]

I see this as a good thing. Very quick way to reduce the amount of useless junk changing cell phone creates.

For example I was packing up my apartment and I found no less than 5 difference chargers. Reminded me that I need to threw most of them away. When I retire my current cell phone I will have 3 chargers to trash.

It would be nice to be able to reuse them because it allows me to leave a charger in different places that I am commonly.

[Anuba]

Why would you think that this be the case?
It's just based on the assumption that Apple wouldn't want to lose all the functionality that comes with the 30-pin connector. Over USB, it's only for charging and transfering data, but it adds other functionality when you use it in a Dock. Audio out, video out, remote control etc. Much of the iPod/iPhone accessory market is based around this... all the docking stations/chargers with built-in speakers, for example. I can't imagine that all that can be replicated through a 5-pin micro-USB port.

[aristotle]

Because other people do! Apple don't make every phone out there, and a lot of people are given phones by their work.

How is that the responsibility of other companies other than the maker of the handset you currently own?

Standardisation should've happened years ago - no more asking around for chargers: "Has anyone got a Samsung charger? No, the other one. Or maybe it's the other one..." And far, far less waste.

I think it is great that some standardization is happening. I have chargers from old Motorola and Samsung phones that I have no use for. But that should be up to the industry, not for the government to impose.

Where did you read that everyone has to get rid of their existing port?

If this will take the form of a small adapter, then I have no problem with it but there is no room for an additional port on the iPhone.

Because you might buy a different phone brand someday?
Did you read what I wrote? I had various device from Motorola, Samsung and Nokia in the past. It is highly unlikely that I would ever go back to any of those brands now especially since I use a mac running OS X as my primary home environment and that I have a considerable investment in apps from the app store which would not work on another device.

[whatever]

OK. So what if I had another phone which was charged via mini-USB, and then I got an iPhone? The whole point of this standardization is that an old charger can be used with a new phone. So, I should be able to charge iPhone with a previously used charger. Without any proprietary cables. It has to work both ways.

I know it may be hard to believe, but it isn't just about Apple. It isn't about forcing Apple to allow using third-party chargers with iPhone. It's phone makers agreeing to have all their smartphones using the same, interchangeable chargers. Without proprietary cables.

You're assuming that the cable will be connect to plug adapter.

Also Apple can get by just buy introducing a USB to Micro USB adapter. Since the only purpose of this adapter is for charging.

[Number 41]

I see this as a good thing. Very quick way to reduce the amount of useless junk changing cell phone creates.

Really, reducing junk is a laudable goal, but should never come at the expense of the end-user experience.

Not saying that's the case here, but if the choice is between an easier solution and an environmentally-friendly solution, give me the easier solution 100 times out of 100.

There's plenty of landfill space in New Jersey.

[Rodimus Prime]

Really, reducing junk is a laudable goal, but should never come at the expense of the end-user experience.

Not saying that's the case here, but if the choice is between an easier solution and an environmentally-friendly solution, give me the easier solution 100 times out of 100.

There's plenty of landfill space in New Jersey.

I honestly do not see how it would effect the end-user. For me it would help me out and it would help out a lot of other smart phone users as over they years they all collect extra chargers.

For example I have extra LG chargers and because of that I leave one at my parents place for when I go down their for a weekend. I can just not bother packing mine and use mine there.

As for the micro USB port being useful most people have extra USB cords they could plug in and charge in a pinch for their phone.

Sorry I see it more as being better for the end user. I could care less about the environmental part of it. I just hate collecting the extra junk over the years because I am a bit of a pack rat.

[bruinsrme]

how is apple goign to fit the mini usb connectors on the iPhone and iPod Touch. The mini usb is a lot larger than the 30 pin connector

[Imhotep397]

Personally, I liked the original port idea that combined firewire and USB functionality. USB only iPods have seen an across the board sucky data transfer speed drop as a result of going to only USB. The one and only potential benefit of this is that the dock connector could stay, go back to being firewire and we could go back to being able to download and album in 10 seconds or less.

[alex4bes]

I dont think this is the future....... what happens when a company has a breakthrough that can only be achieved by using their own made port...

This sort of standardisation will make or break the market... It looks all sparkley and nice to the eco-heads now but i think it will only lead to poor aftermarket products from "less advantaged" countries and will be dangerous.

USB was a great idea.... look at it now.....How much cheap USB tat do you see coming from china that breaks and is unsafe?

Apple need to distance themselves from this and continue to provide a better product....

WHO DOESNT HAVE AN iPOD CABLE?:o:o:apple::apple::apple:

[MattInOz]

Apple has been quite good in respects to keeping the basic Dock connector over the past few years (of course they removed Firewire at some point, and added in video out at another point, and I presume some of the pins are spare to future functionality). However at some point soon they will want to update the pin-out to include HD video output (HDMI or DisplayPort signals, which can be routed to a HDMI or Displayport Port within a dock or similar hardware).

In addition, the EU should also extend this to Digital Cameras and portable media players.

Didn't Apple shift a couple of Pins for the iPhone Power spec on the dock?
They would have been well aware moves where a foot for something like this.
So I'm wondering if they might have planned on a somewhat backward compatible mirco dock connector say that can still use the 30 pin version or the new say 20 pin connector down one end or the mirco usb down the other.

I guess if they have enough unused pins in the midde to allow for the casing of either smaller plug to connect.

[Master Chief]

I think it's dubious, note how the point was really to stop selling phones with chargers!

Ugh I love the way European countries do things, they can't get people to willingly adopt so they force them.
You mean like Apple is forcing you to purchase Apple products (just read the OS X EULA)?

Did you know that it took 50.000 casualties (car crashes) in the USA before the US car manufacturers adopted the seat belt? And that it took nearly ten years before they did? Seems like regulations works after all ;)

I just looked up Euro NCAP (http://www.euroncap.com/home.aspx) and Euro-5 (http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/euro-5-emissions-standards-cars/article-133325) which to me seems like perfect things to adopt for the US of A.

[alex4bes]

I think the adapter that people are refering to would be a male micro-usb to female dock connector.

i.e the iphone would have a micro usb slot....

And what would this mean for the rest of the ipod range.... perhaps apple will distance the phone market from its music player side..

[NicP]

Arent there advantages with the dock over usb?

here is a pinout of the dock connector:
http://pinouts.ru/Devices/ipod_pinout.shtml

If the dock connector goes we lose analog audio in/out via a dock as well as the serial control and video out

These things are not impossible to get over USB but from my understanding a USB connection would require decoding hardware in the accessory rather than using the onboard decoding of the ipod/iphone which would make some accessories considerably more expensive

[applecultvictim]

As others have said, they are not about to ditch their very popular and very functional connector, to fall into line with other companies, so I expect they will include an adaptor with all new iPhones. It will probably look a bit like this ...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9646/usbc.jpg

Excellent post.

Btw, micro usb looks like a bunch of crap. Keep the dock connector apple and screw the rest. ;)

In any case with about $20 we pay per simple cable for the ipod/phone I think :apple: you can pretty well afford the cost of it, cant you boys?:p:apple:

[Freyqq]

easy. Just include a usb-ipod dock converter or add in a usb elsewhere

[windywoo]

Really, reducing junk is a laudable goal, but should never come at the expense of the end-user experience.

Not saying that's the case here, but if the choice is between an easier solution and an environmentally-friendly solution, give me the easier solution 100 times out of 100.

There's plenty of landfill space in New Jersey.

No it should always be a priority above end user experience. You can't put luxury items above the need to keep our world clean. Landfill is a very short term solution. And you need to take a long hard look at your priorities.

[peters438]

No it should always be a priority above end user experience. You can't put luxury items above the need to keep our world clean. Landfill is a very short term solution. And you need to take a long hard look at your priorities.

A long hard look at reality would make more sense.

So the power adapter is saved from the landfill. What about the old phone? If it's trashed, then what's the point? It's going in the landfill. If it's recycled, why not recycle the power adapter too? If it's sold or given away, then I'm betting the new user would like the charger as well, to um... charge the phone!

[s4yunkim]

It's probably goign to be what Korea has been doing for years....

All cell phones have the same adapter here in Korea. It's a generic 20 pin connector, and when you buy a cell phone, it comes with a little adapter to go from the 20 pin to whatever your phone accepts... My guess is it will look exactly like that USB->Dock connector plug that was posted earlier.

[aristotle]

I think the adapter that people are refering to would be a male micro-usb to female dock connector.

i.e the iphone would have a micro usb slot....

And what would this mean for the rest of the ipod range.... perhaps apple will distance the phone market from its music player side..
So this tells me two things.
1. You did not bother reading the other posts in the thread.
2. You are not aware that the iPod dock connector carries not only power and USB signals but also control signals for controlling the iPod/iPhone via buttons on the dock device or via a remote paired with the dock as well as audio "and" video.

Were you completely asleep when Apple made a big deal about the new API in iPhone 3.0 for controlling add-on hardware such as sensors that use the dock port? They did not do that just to use with an iPod touch. :rolleyes:

You can have a dock port and add an adaptor for microusb, not the other way around.

You are basically suggesting that Apple will throw away their competitive advantage of the built up ecosystem of car integration kits, add on sensor products for use with iPhone 3.0 and the iPhone and the plethora of radios, TVs and speaker systems with a dock connector. You are serious?

[aristotle]

No it should always be a priority above end user experience. You can't put luxury items above the need to keep our world clean. Landfill is a very short term solution. And you need to take a long hard look at your priorities.
Windywoo, this is a technology site. The door is there for you to leave through if you don't like it.
:rolleyes:
I think it is more effective to buy products that last rather than fragile products which will end up in the landfill more quickly.

[windywoo]

A long hard look at reality would make more sense.

So the power adapter is saved from the landfill. What about the old phone? If it's trashed, then what's the point? It's going in the landfill. If it's recycled, why not recycle the power adapter too? If it's sold or given away, then I'm betting the new user would like the charger as well, to um... charge the phone!

Well people should be using their phones longer not throwing them out as soon as the new model comes out. And phone companies shouldn't be releasing new phones every other week encouraging upgrades just so they make more money.

Windywoo, this is a technology site. The door is there for you to leave through if you don't like it.
:rolleyes:
I think it is more effective to buy products that last rather than fragile products which will end up in the landfill more quickly.

Where is the rule written that technology has to be unfriendly to the environment? That short term profits and rapid advancement in technology are more important than the long term consequences? Technology companies are just making headaches for their children further down the line. A technology site is just the sort of place that environmental issues should be discussed.

There are plenty of cheap iPod port compatible products out there, and Apple has had several revisions of that port. There is nothing lasting about it. Is it because the standard does not come from Apple that you consider it fragile and short lived?

[aristotle]

Well people should be using their phones longer not throwing them out as soon as the new model comes out. And phone companies shouldn't be releasing new phones every other week encouraging upgrades just so they make more money.



Where is the rule written that technology has to be unfriendly to the environment? That short term profits and rapid advancement in technology are more important than the long term consequences? Technology companies are just making headaches for their children further down the line. A technology site is just the sort of place that environmental issues should be discussed.

There are plenty of cheap iPod port compatible products out there, and Apple has had several revisions of that port. There is nothing lasting about it. Is it because the standard does not come from Apple that you consider it fragile and short lived?
Every current iPod compatible dock product works with the current iPod Touch/iPhone. The only products that no longer work are devices that expect Firewire charging/connectivity. Apple gradually phased out firewire connectivity by first removing syncing capability and then charging.

I have yet to throw out a single Apple product. I either still use them or have sold them on for other people to enjoy. I see a lot of poorly designed hardware that barely lasts a year before it breaks and ends up in the landfill.

[TK2K]

what exactly does this mean for iphone device computability??

[aristotle]

what exactly does this mean for iphone device computability??
Nothing has been announced yet. They will probably just include a dongle that attached to the dock connector port. I don't see why they would every want to give up their competitive advantage which the dock connector offers or give up the additional functionality it provides.

Apple has spent a lot of effort developing an entire API in 3.0 iPhone OS to allow third party devices to interface with the dock connector so I don't see them all of a sudden abandoning it.

[TK2K]

Nothing has been announced yet. They will probably just include a dongle that attached to the dock connector port. I don't see why they would every want to give up their competitive advantage which the dock connector offers or give up the additional functionality it provides.

Apple has spent a lot of effort developing an entire API in 3.0 iPhone OS to allow third party devices to interface with the dock connector so I don't see them all of a sudden abandoning it.

dongle would make sense, some sort of charge only function?

[talkingfuture]

Great news that there will be universal phone chargers. For all the worried I am sure that Apple will find a way of neatly integrating this solution that makes half of us happy.

[all-in-my-head]

I know everyone is focussed on the change of connector on the phone, but if the end goal is a universal charger, what are the implications for the battery inside the phone?

As all the different batteries require a particular voltage etc, will this hamper Apples own battery development? Or is it a non-issue?

[Habakuk]

Nothing has been announced yet.

One page previous in this thread, a German-language blog quotes an official statement by an Apple spokesperson, I tried to translate it:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7977109&postcount=139

The iPhone's charger is the smallest and handiest one in the world. Very easy to transport. I hope they don't change it (or charge extra for it). I love to use the Apple AV cable for watching YouTube content on my TV set (or on almost any hotel room TV set in the world). I hope they don't change it.

For your information. Official PDF document:

MoU regarding Harmonisation of a Charging Capability for Mobile Phones
by DigitalEurope and the European Commission (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/rtte/mou_june2009.pdf)

[niuniu]

Excellent news, you should see the mess of chargers in one of my drawers.. terrible waste..

[VaDor]

They will not do away with the 30 pin dock adaptor. This is European MPs in suits who have no idea of the consequences of their actions forcing something on everyone. The aim is to keep everything 'simpler' for the average user so they don't get confused about which of 20 different chargers to use.

That I'm all for. Forcing manufacturers into a particular specification without any regard or thought for the limitations it might present is what I'm against. Same fiasco as with European software patents.

However European Union didn't force nobody to enter in this "new standard". If Apple agreed is because its capable of deliver a new iphone with a micro-usb without hurting the actual connection!

What I mean is Apple isn't stupid if it agreed is because they have a plan to incorporate a mini-usb port.:o

[Habakuk]

Poll: How many chargers do you have for your iDevice? (Honestly.) I have six of them.

#1 The one that came shipped with my iPhone is on my desktop at home and works very well with the original Apple dock for iPhone.

#2 The second one came (complete with UK plug) with the Apple AV cable and is resident in my living room beneath my TV set (I am taking it with me on trips for watching YouTube or slideshows on hotel room TVs). It can be used for syncing and charging as well.

#3 + #4 A bit cheaper ones by Belkin for my primary bedstand and office. Not so small, not so handy (no second plug), a bit shorter cable (you can change it against original Apple cable), not so well designed but they work.

#5 Car charger by Griffin

#6 The JBL speakers dock "On Stage" can load my iPhone, it's on my secondary bedstand ;-)

And I could use easily two or three additionally. I am using more than one car, I have more than one office, one for my bag on railroad trips...

[aleksandra.]

You're assuming that the cable will be connect to plug adapter.

Also Apple can get by just buy introducing a USB to Micro USB adapter. Since the only purpose of this adapter is for charging.

No. You can have a USB - micro-USB cable. You can't have an adapter like this. You would need a micro-USB port on the phone's side, either directly or through an adapter. Then you could use a cable to connect it to a charger or a computer with USB port.

[Anuba]

Personally, I liked the original port idea that combined firewire and USB functionality. USB only iPods have seen an across the board sucky data transfer speed drop as a result of going to only USB. The one and only potential benefit of this is that the dock connector could stay, go back to being firewire and we could go back to being able to download and album in 10 seconds or less.
USB 3.0 is just around the corner and will allow up to 5 Gbit/s... faster than any iPod hard drive of Flash memory could possibly handle, runs circles around firewire 800 (and outperforms the upcoming firewire 3200 too). iPods and iPhones will be USB 3.0 capable in a year or so.

The majority of iPod and iPhone users are PC users, and firewire never took off on PCs. Laptops have a 4-pin firewire 400 port at best. Once USB 3.0 arrives they'll probably drop firewire completely on the PC side. It wouldn't make business sense for Apple to go back to dual interface iPods at this point.
Poll: How many chargers do you have for your iDevice? (Honestly.) I have six of them.
One - the one that came with my iPhone. Then I have an XtremeMac Luna clock radio with an iPod dock, but I have a white iPod Video 4G sitting there pretty much permanently. I have two universal docks, an iPhone dock and an iPod Nano dock but those are all connected via USB only.

[twoodcc]

now this will be interesting. i bet somehow apple will put it in the dock connector

[fmaxwell]

Windywoo, this is a technology site. The door is there for you to leave through if you don't like it.

aristotle, this is an Apple site and Apple is on-the record as being in favor of "green" products and manufacturing. The door is there for you to leave through if you don't like it.

Windywoo is absolutely correct: Technology does not have to be environmentally hostile.

I think it is more effective to buy products that last rather than fragile products which will end up in the landfill more quickly.

So you're in favor of the micro USB connector, since it is designed for 10K plug/unplug cycles. Good. You like the fact that you will be able to charge through the alternate connector if either the dock or micro USB connectors is damaged. Great. Now let's move on.

[Anuba]

You mean like Apple is forcing you to purchase Apple products (just read the OS X EULA)?

Did you know that it took 50.000 casualties (car crashes) in the USA before the US car manufacturers adopted the seat belt? And that it took nearly ten years before they did? Seems like regulations works after all ;)
The big three fought against it for a long time, too. In stark contrast to Volvo, who made seat belts standard across their product line long before the Swedish government had implemented any regulations for it. ;)

I just looked up Euro NCAP (http://www.euroncap.com/home.aspx) and Euro-5 (http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/euro-5-emissions-standards-cars/article-133325) which to me seems like perfect things to adopt for the US of A.
Yeah.

The EU is often the subject of flak from Americans who think that all our regulations are silly, socialist, anti-capitalist etc. The most recent example is that they're forcing Microsoft to ship Windows 7 without IE, in order to help level the field for competition between browsers. But honestly, what the EU is doing is very beneficial to consumers. If they smell a hint of monopoly or de-facto monopoly anywhere, they go after it with a sledgehammer. It keeps companies on their toes, the competition is fierce and the consumers have tons of alternatives to choose from. Here in my flat in Sweden I can choose between 24 Mbit DSL (standard for several years, they're rolling out 60 Mbit now) from a dozen different carriers, 50 Mbit cable modem or 100 Mbit fibreLAN (currently they're testing 1000 Mbit but it'll probably be a couple of years before I can get that here). Either solution costs about $30/month. 3G was rolled out in 2004-2005 and has been available from half a dozen carriers ever since. All carriers are required by agreement with the licensor (the government) to offer coverage all over Sweden so that no single carrier can corner the market in select parts of the country. We will have two iPhone carriers this summer, though I can't say TeliaSonera ripped me off when they had the exclusive iPhone deal... I didn't have to sign up for some draconian 24-month plan, I was able to buy the iPhone and keep my old plan, which I pay $3 (yes, 3 bucks) a month for + 3 cents per minute of talk time, then I added the optional unlimited data plan for $20/month. In other words I pay a total of about $25/month for my iPhone usage and I'm free to switch to any other carrier any time I want. When 3.0 enabled tethering I was able to use it instantly for no extra charge, and MMS was enabled too of course. This is by no means related directly to EU regulations, but TeliaSonera's approach is the result of operating in the EU climate. They bend over backwards to be nice and offer competitive pricing even when they technically have no competitors. :D

Meanwhile, in the "land of the free" you're stuck with some Soviet-style dinosaur called AT&T. They can charge whatever the hell they want (and boy do they ever), they implement new services long after the rest of the world... because they can. They wouldn't survive one week in the EU with that approach.

[b0ned0me]

Total mobile handset sales for 2008 were about 1.22 BILLION units. Apple are a significant player by revenue because they make a high-end handset, but in terms of number of units (and therefore number of chargers) they are a tiny dust-speck on a hair growing out of a wart on a cow's backside. The amount of plastic, copper, energy and whatnot saved by standardising chargers is significant - hundreds of millions of wall-warts within just a few years. That may be an inconvenience to Apple and some of it's customers, but quite frankly that's just tough luck. Automotive standards aren't written to suit Bentley, and mobile phone standards aren't written to suit Apple.

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

I imagine the iPhone will ship with a "y adapter" that plugs into the dock connector. You plug the power into one part and a USB cable (for data transfer) into the other.

[trose]

The big three fought against it for a long time, too. In stark contrast to Volvo, who made seat belts standard across their product line long before the Swedish government had implemented any regulations for it. ;)


Yeah.

The EU is often the subject of flak from Americans who think that all our regulations are silly, socialist, anti-capitalist etc. The most recent example is that they're forcing Microsoft to ship Windows 7 without IE, in order to help level the field for competition between browsers. But honestly, what the EU is doing is very beneficial to consumers. If they smell a hint of monopoly or de-facto monopoly anywhere, they go after it with a sledgehammer. It keeps companies on their toes, the competition is fierce and the consumers have tons of alternatives to choose from. Here in my flat in Sweden I can choose between 24 Mbit DSL (standard for several years, they're rolling out 60 Mbit now) from a dozen different carriers, 50 Mbit cable modem or 100 Mbit fibreLAN (currently they're testing 1000 Mbit but it'll probably be a couple of years before I can get that here). Either solution costs about $30/month. 3G was rolled out in 2004-2005 and has been available from half a dozen carriers ever since. All carriers are required by agreement with the licensor (the government) to offer coverage all over Sweden so that no single carrier can corner the market in select parts of the country. We will have two iPhone carriers this summer, though I can't say TeliaSonera ripped me off when they had the exclusive iPhone deal... I didn't have to sign up for some draconian 24-month plan, I was able to buy the iPhone and keep my old plan, which I pay $3 (yes, 3 bucks) a month for + 3 cents per minute of talk time, then I added the optional unlimited data plan for $20/month. In other words I pay a total of about $25/month for my iPhone usage and I'm free to switch to any other carrier any time I want. When 3.0 enabled tethering I was able to use it instantly for no extra charge, and MMS was enabled too of course. This is by no means related directly to EU regulations, but TeliaSonera's approach is the result of operating in the EU climate. They bend over backwards to be nice and offer competitive pricing even when they technically have no competitors. :D

Meanwhile, in the "land of the free" you're stuck with some Soviet-style dinosaur called AT&T. They can charge whatever the hell they want (and boy do they ever), they implement new services long after the rest of the world... because they can. They wouldn't survive one week in the EU with that approach.


So... jealous...

Paying $50/mo for my *maybe* 10Mbps Cable, and it's more often around 4-6Mbps. Also stuck with AT&T for my 3G iPhone...

I need to get to Sweden. The weather can't be any worse in Stockholm than it is here in Maine :P

[aristotle]

dongle would make sense, some sort of charge only function?
Micro USB "is" USB so it could charge and sync but for additional functionality like remote control signals and video/audio out, the dock connector and a dock would have to be used.

So Apple could just ship a small stub that plugs into the dock connector and provides a microUSB port on the other end to which you could plug in any microUSB cable or charger.

[Anuba]

So... jealous...

Paying $50/mo for my *maybe* 10Mbps Cable, and it's more often around 4-6Mbps. Also stuck with AT&T for my 3G iPhone...

I need to get to Sweden. The weather can't be any worse in Stockholm than it is here in Maine :P
Currently sunny and 29°C/81°F -- wish I could take my socialist convertible for a spin on our socialist roads, but alas I have lots of work to do. :mad:

BTW, didn't Obama have plans for some sort of government funded nationwide broadband infrastructure rollout? That's what we did in Sweden in the late 90's... that's why my grandma has a 100 Mbit connection she wouldn't know what to do with. The government owns all of Sweden below ground so it was a piece of cake for them, they could just use existing infrastructure like sewage systems etc. I think they spent a little over a billion $ to deploy fast broadband to all towns in Sweden, which was peanut money really, about 1/1500 of the state budget that year. Then the carriers just plug into that network and do whatever they have to do in order to get cheap broadband from the city limit into people's homes.

(OT, sorry).

So, is there any consensus on how Apple will implement this micro-USB stuff? So far I've heard

1) Replacing the 30-pin connector with micro-USB (not bloody likely due to loss of functionality)

2) Y-adapter type solution with a mini USB port *on* the dock connector next to the regular USB cable (too messy IMO)

3) An extra micro-USB port next to the 30-pin port (I don't see where they'd find the room, or how they'd make it non-ugly)

4) Replacing the full sized USB male plug with a micro-USB plug, still with 30-pin at the other end, and a micro-USB female on the charger (sounds weird and I don't see how this would comply with the standard at all)

5) The cable from the charger would have a micro USB plug at the end, which would plug into a white Apple-style 30-pin connector adapter, or any standard-compliant phone of your choice.

[aristotle]

One page previous in this thread, a German-language blog quotes an official statement by an Apple spokesperson, I tried to translate it:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7977109&postcount=139

The iPhone's charger is the smallest and handiest one in the world. Very easy to transport. I hope they don't change it (or charge extra for it). I love to use the Apple AV cable for watching YouTube content on my TV set (or on almost any hotel room TV set in the world). I hope they don't change it.

For your information. Official PDF document:

MoU regarding Harmonisation of a Charging Capability for Mobile Phones
by DigitalEurope and the European Commission (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/rtte/mou_june2009.pdf)
I hope that the other companies "copy" Apple and offer a Micro USB to MicroUSB cable with a port on the charger so that if you do need a new charger, you could just by the charger portion and reuse the cable and I also hope that Apple just provides a small adapter similar to what was posted where one end has a male dock connector and the other has a micro USB port.

[nachotaco]

I don't think apps that use the 30 pin dock connector should have anything to worry about.

At the very least apple would have an adapter from mini usb to the 30 pin dock connector.

But for the majority of apps there shouldn't be a problem because the 30 pin dock connector already communicates fine with USB.... The current cable is a USB cable so it is proven that USB will work just fine in place of a 30 pin dock connector...

[Mekgek]

Huh? doesn't Apple already have this......???????

I assume the input for the adapter will be a USB port. So just use the 30-pin-Dock to USB cable thing to connect it to the adapter.........No extra cables needed

[fabianjj]

I don't really see a reason to get upset about this, I mean the micro USB connector is smaller, it can provide all the features the 30-pin connector can, and it will bring a lot of goodwill to apple. And this is not some unfair thing which makes apple the only one who have to change, I think nokia is the only manufactor in that list that uses micro-USB ATM, all the others have to abandon all their accesories and chargers as well.

Gosh (almost) everyone here seems to think Apple is the center of the universe.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken I believe it (originally at least before Apple was mentioned in this debate) headphone support was included in this specification, which is good but I'd rather have every phone sporting a 3,5 mm jack instead.

[aristotle]

I don't really see a reason to get upset about this, I mean the micro USB connector is smaller, it can provide all the features the 30-pin connector can, and it will bring a lot of goodwill to apple. And this is not some unfair thing which makes apple the only one who have to change, I think nokia is the only manufactor in that list that uses micro-USB ATM, all the others have to abandon all their accesories and chargers as well.

Gosh (almost) everyone here seems to think Apple is the center of the universe.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken I believe it (originally at least before Apple was mentioned in this debate) headphone support was included in this specification, which is good but I'd rather have every phone sporting a 3,5 mm jack instead.
Pro tip: Read the thread before responding.
:rolleyes:
Many of us have already explained that the 30 pin dock connector carries USB, control signals for integration with remotes on a dock/car system etc, audio and video. Did you notice that USB is in there but other signals are also included? While you technically could transmit audio and video over USB, you would have to share bandwidth with other data and the receiving device would have to know how to decode the digital data stream and convert it back to video. There could also be bandwidth limits that could affect the quality.
:rolleyes:
I am trhing very hard to not flame the hell out of you and nachotaco. USB is only a portion of the signals carried by the dock connector.

[mastgrr]

Meanwhile, in the "land of the free" you're stuck with some Soviet-style dinosaur called AT&T. They can charge whatever the hell they want (and boy do they ever), they implement new services long after the rest of the world... because they can. They wouldn't survive one week in the EU with that approach.

Anuba, I think you made a really good argument for the EU's harmonization efforts. I have to add another thing because it's relevant: the GPRS and the 3G system is standard by EU practice. All cell phone carriers in Europe use the same system - so all cell phones work with all other cell phone carriers.

People here are complaining about overregulation, when this really is voluntary (simply initiated by the EU Commission). Complaining about aesthetics, when it's at best miniscule (or no change at all). The fact that this is a great environmental procedure at heart seems to escape most people, which saddens me. Apple has Al Gore as a member of the board of directors, shows advertisements on TV that it has the greenest laptops of all, prides on its small packaging which is less wasteful and easier to transport, etc. Adding a micro-USB port (or support) is an Apple thing to do.

[Anuba]

USB is only a portion of the signals carried by the dock connector.
Right. Micro USB has 5 pins. It's good for data transfer and power, not much else. No video/audio out through an iPod dock, no remote control.

These are some examples of what the pins on the 30-pin connector are for...

Pins 3+4 = audio out L/R
Pins 5+6 = audio in L/R
Pin 8 = composite video out
Pin 21 = acccessory identification

Then again... remote control and audio via USB is already a staple of USB peripherals. It takes a bit of software on both ends of the cable, but that should be doable here. USB 3.0 might facilitate that even further, at least in terms of bandwidth. If they would extend such a standard to car accessories, I'm sure it wouldn't be long before cars had a universal micro-USB port where you can charge stuff or plug any cellphone or mp3 player into your car stereo and have them interact.

Anuba, I think you made a really good argument for the EU's harmonization efforts. I have to add another thing because it's relevant: the GPRS and the 3G system is standard by EU practice. All cell phone carriers in Europe use the same system - so all cell phones work with all other cell phone carriers.
Yup. Here's another cellphone related story from the EU...

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/07/01/eu.roaming.cellphones/index.html

# New rules limiting cellphone "roaming" costs introduced across European Union
# Cost of making calls down to €0.43 per minute; cost of texting down to €0.11
# European Commission says new system could cut bill costs by 60 percent
# Telecoms Commissioner Viviane Reding: Commission has ended "roaming rip off"
This isn't about dictating what companies can charge, just for the heck of it. But if you're going to have an actual Union similar to the United States, with open borders between states and the ability for EU citizens to move around freely, you can't have phone carriers pretending like it's 1954 and going "oooooh, you just crossed the border between Belgium and the Netherlands, now we'll have to use very advanced and expensive rocket science to transfer your calls across the border".

[Kebabselector]

5) The cable from the charger would have a micro USB plug at the end, which would plug into a white Apple-style 30-pin connector adapter, or any standard-compliant phone of your choice.

My thoughts exactly......

http://www.kebablog.co.uk/blogpics/iusb.jpg

Quick photoshop, I didn't have a micro USB socket to hand to use! (but the concept is the same)

[AidenShaw]

My thoughts exactly......

http://www.kebablog.co.uk/blogpics/iusb.jpg

Quick photoshop, I didn't have a micro USB socket to hand to use! (but the concept is the same)

I have a couple of questions about this adapter ides...


Won't an adapter change the problem from "anyone have an xG Iphone charger that I can borrow - I forgot mine" to "anyone have a µUSB to xG Iphone adapter - I forgot mine"?
Reading the report, it's a two-way affair. Not only must the Iphone have a female jack to accept the µUSB charging cable from the Samsung, but the Iphone charger must have a male µUSB plug to charge the Samsung

I know that Apple likes to sell $29 dongles to everyone, but to me it would seem like a small, easily lost dongle is not the best solution.

[aleksandra.]

Yup. Here's another cellphone related story from the EU...

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/07/01/eu.roaming.cellphones/index.html

This isn't about dictating what companies can charge, just for the heck of it. But if you're going to have an actual Union similar to the United States, with open borders between states and the ability for EU citizens to move around freely, you can't have phone carriers pretending like it's 1954 and going "oooooh, you just crossed the border between Belgium and the Netherlands, now we'll have to use very advanced and expensive rocket science to transfer your calls across the border".

Just today I've got a text with new pricing... It's still a rip off ;). Kind of sad EU regulations are the only way of changing things in some countries.

[peters438]

Well people should be using their phones longer not throwing them out as soon as the new model comes out. And phone companies shouldn't be releasing new phones every other week encouraging upgrades just so they make more money.

So if people did what you said, there would be no reason to specially save the power brick from the landfill. And damn those phone companies, making products and encouraging people to buy them. The bastards!

But do avoid buying new things. I buy enough tech for several people anyway. Think of it like carbon offsets for technology.

Where is the rule written that technology has to be unfriendly to the environment? That short term profits and rapid advancement in technology are more important than the long term consequences? Technology companies are just making headaches for their children further down the line. A technology site is just the sort of place that environmental issues should be discussed.

There are plenty of cheap iPod port compatible products out there, and Apple has had several revisions of that port. There is nothing lasting about it. Is it because the standard does not come from Apple that you consider it fragile and short lived?

Honestly, the dock connector has done very well as a standard port across the iPod product line since the second generation iPod. I could charge my 1st generation iPhone with my 6-year old iPod firewire iPod charger and dock. Sure there have been changes to the dock to support different shapes of iPods, and some older accessories have been obsoleted. But that's technology.

[peters438]

I don't really see a reason to get upset about this, I mean the micro USB connector is smaller, it can provide all the features the 30-pin connector can, and it will bring a lot of goodwill to apple. And this is not some unfair thing which makes apple the only one who have to change, I think nokia is the only manufactor in that list that uses micro-USB ATM, all the others have to abandon all their accesories and chargers as well.

Gosh (almost) everyone here seems to think Apple is the center of the universe.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken I believe it (originally at least before Apple was mentioned in this debate) headphone support was included in this specification, which is good but I'd rather have every phone sporting a 3,5 mm jack instead.

But not quite. USB can't do video and audio output, as others have mentioned. And it's not a full fledged accessory connector, as I understand it, since USB is a host-based bus. Unlike firewire, where any device could talk to any other device, USB requires a host (typically the computer) for communication.

I think for the iPhone to use USB for accessory communication, it's USB circuitry would have to support host mode. Anyone with more knowledge of the USB spec?

[windywoo]

So if people did what you said, there would be no reason to specially save the power brick from the landfill. And damn those phone companies, making products and encouraging people to buy them. The bastards!

But do avoid buying new things. I buy enough tech for several people anyway. Think of it like carbon offsets for technology.



Honestly, the dock connector has done very well as a standard port across the iPod product line since the second generation iPod. I could charge my 1st generation iPhone with my 6-year old iPod firewire iPod charger and dock. Sure there have been changes to the dock to support different shapes of iPods, and some older accessories have been obsoleted. But that's technology.

"That's technology" isn't a great argument. The pace of technological change is determined by greedy companies competing against each other for profit, and greedy customers who demand a new buzz every 6 months or even less. This pattern destroys the natural world at an alarming rate, it can't continue indefinitely. Everybody knows this, but they choose to ignore it, because they love their TVs and phones so much.

In short, its people who set the pace of technological change, its not some written law of the universe that products should be out of date as soon as they're in the shops.

[Jaster Mereel]

This is good news that Apple finally agreed to this, but this isn't that big of news since the OMTP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Mobile_Terminal_Platform) has already agreed on the micro USB connector as well. It is good that both entities have agreed on the same connector though. What I am worried about is if companies that make other phone accessories such as Bluetooth headsets will also adopt the micro USB as the default charging connector. If not, it'll be annoying as hell still but not so much annoying. I just want to take one charger to charge all of my devices. Actually, what I'll end up doing is getting a dual USB wall charger or car charger and then have two USB -> micro USB cables so that I can charge two devices at once.

[j26]

But not quite. USB can't do video and audio output, as others have mentioned. And it's not a full fledged accessory connector, as I understand it, since USB is a host-based bus. ....

There's nothing to stop Apple for creating a new Dock Connector that has a micro USB port on one side, and pins for audio/video etc on the other.

Then you could use micro USB for charging, but if you want the fuller connection, you use the new cable.

[JFreak]

I don't see Apple dropping the IDC, but it sure makes sense for them to agree on this universal charger thing. It will benefit everyone. What most of you seem to have forgotten is that Apple's *approach* to these problems has always been unique. Something that most of us will say "why didn't I think of that" or just simply stare at it in awe.

My prediction would be small protector-like stub that has mUSB connector on the back. Remove the stub and you have IDC. Really a win-win solution, because having that stub attached would keep dust out of the iPhone but still make it available to use IDC and features that are impossible with mUSB.

I cannot think of Apple just throwing features away because of this, therefore IDC will stay. But what's their solution in adding the mUSB charging feature remains to be seen.

It will be interesting for a while, then it becomes 2nd nature ;)

[JFreak]

http://www.kebablog.co.uk/blogpics/iusb.jpg


This is something like I imagined. Though the real Apple solution will either be something very much smaller (that you don't object keeping attached to your phone at all times) or one that has some kind of tight connector that almost feels like locked to the standard mUSB charger.

[whyhateapple]

It's clearly stated in the future chargers won't be included with phones free of charge.

You can use someone else's charger without having to carry your cable with you even if you have different phones = more convenient. The best solution would be perhaps to split the standard in a charger with USB port and a micro-USB cable to connect the phone to it (or to a computer).

:) Well how about a new standard concerning batteries?!?!?! Today the most used batteries are AA and AAA size batteries and if every company used the same standard battery, think how cheap would it become to produce those things! Well, this was just a thought, standards are good if it does not bar innovation technically but yet help to reduce costs. Just remember the 80s. Sony pushed its Beta videos and VHS video cassettes were supplied by JVC. In the end, no government decided no standards, the market decided as it was supposed to be, or as it was not supposed to be. In the end, people used VHS for more than a decade (and surprisingly continues to be used in the United States!! as far as I have seen!! weird) Yet, for many years, millions of video player units that were sold playing BETA videos became obsolete after the standard war has ended.

Today, the same thing will happen after all, but not to us- consumers- but to producers in China, where, hundreds of millions of unnecessary chargers are being built -and just for cell phones- -and every year, yeah thats true, every year- are not going to be built after 2010. In fact, any production is made for the sake of a NEED, and NEEDS boost demand, and where demands meet the possible production frontier, there is a QUANTITY produced and sold, and an appropriate price for that quantity of product is being assigned. And believe me, that price was HIGH! The only cause for this was the market segmentation. Producers tried to segmentate the market, to protect their area against other producers, and even they segmentate the products between their brands. Take Motorola for. ex. The charger for Razr and the bluetooth headset are not the same. Same brand, same time but different chargers. They could have easily adopted the same charger but they did not. They only want us to buy more chargers, another charger for the car, another for travel/hotel, another desk stand/cradle and charger combination for the office.. And they make extra money on this. Think about this, the price of copper and plastic, and NO TECHNOLOGICAL COST for a charger, I think that would be roughly more than a dollar, at most 2 dollars. But they sell it starting from 10+ dollars at discount and up to 29 dollars at Apple.

All things I always believe to be economical, there was a force needed over the greedy corporations. Thanks to the Commission of the EU :)

[MorphingDragon]

The thought of having to move to USA to make the most money sends shivers down my spines. I dont want to leave EU/Japanese/Aus/NZ space but I do want to work for one of the big three... or Red Hat. Maybe Ill take up Japanese again and work in Japan. :D Those big numbers will make me feel extra special.
私は日本を愛する

[tooz]

Figured it was better to revive an old thread than start a new one...

Is there any news on if/how iPhone 4 will support this? I thought it would be an adapter, but I haven't seen any adapters yet...

[Freakdahouse]

Doesn't make much sense to have an adapter, between carrying a cable or an adapter all the time, then I prefer the cable, at least it has more use.

[hok]

It is about port on the charger not on the phone

Apple won't change anything on the phone, only on the charger. But it is a dumb law from EU, it should have mandated a USB port for the charger (that apple already use), not a micro USB, because computer doesn't have micro, but relugar USB ports.

[MorphingDragon]

It is about port on the charger not on the phone

Apple won't change anything on the phone, only on the charger. But it is a dumb law from EU, it should have mandated a USB port for the charger (that apple already use), not a micro USB, because computer doesn't have micro, but relugar USB ports.

I think you're confused.

[DJ567]

step 1 -> standardise chargers
step 2 -> supply with new phones (like now)
step 3 -> a few years down the line, no longer supply any chargers with any phones and therefore require buyers to purchase separately.
will phones be any cheaper as you're not getting a charger? Of course not

Just a sly way of saving money... like when remotes stop being supplied with macs.

[vastoholic]

Has anyone heard anything else on this? I just heard about it from my Dad yesterday and my first reaction was "oh, apple is gonna be mad." I think it's kind of crap that they should have to change for everyone one else because they already have their own standard which works across all iOS devices and their computers.

This was a good idea back before smart phones when each member of my family had a different brand of phone and not a single charger matched between us. But now, anyone who has an iPod automatically has a charger for the iPhone (and the iPad).

I was surprised to read that apple agreed to this without putting up too much argument.

[dime21]

proprietary data cables suck, including the Apple "dock" connector. everyones smart phone attaches to their computer using USB. It makes perfect sense to standardize all phones on a usb connection.

standard usb connection for charging and data transfer. standard 1/8" headphone jack for audio output, for external speakers and whatnot.

open standards are a good thing. i, for one, am sick and tired of paying $29.99 for proprietary chargers that only work with that one phone, only to have to throw them out and buy another one that works with the next phone. I've carried a cell phone since 1994, and have probably bought 30 different car and wall chargers since then. Enough is enough!

[tablo13]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B118 Safari/6531.22.7)

Deleted

[wirelessmacuser]

1) proprietary data cables suck, including the Apple "dock" connector.

2) It makes perfect sense to standardize all phones on a usb connection.
1) I agree completely.

2) Perfect sense to those of us who do dislike having Apple think for us. You are applying common sense which is sadly lacking in much of what Apple does.

Also they use proprietary connectors and systems to lock users into the closed Apple eco system.