How would you protect yourself?

[spaceboots06]

If one or more armed people broke into your home with the intention of taking your valuables and not letting anything get in his/her/their way would you do? Let's suspend reality a little and say there would be no consequences for the actions you might take.

If I had a weapon I would try to shoot to kill.

[iShater]

It must be the beginning of the month, cause we haven't had one of these threads in what ... 30 days? :rolleyes:

[redwarrior]

I would give them everything I have, including my kids, and tell them about Jesus.

However, if they even looked at my MBP, I would shoot to kill and hope they burn in hell.

[spaceboots06]

It must be the beginning of the month, cause we haven't had one of these threads in what ... 30 days? :rolleyes:

Eek, sorry; I searched "would you kill someone?" and didn't get any similar results...

[redwarrior]

It must be the beginning my time of the month, cause we haven't had one of these threads in what ... 30 days? :rolleyes:
Fixed that for you.:p

Eek, sorry; I searched "would you kill someone?" and didn't get any similar results...
NBD. I actually hadn't noticed any lately, but then I try to steer clear of the PRSI.:cool:

[Unspoken Demise]

Kill them with kindness.
Offer some muffins.
Maybe a warm towel.
Then after 15 or so minutes of lite conversation I would remark on how easy it is to lace a muffin with arsenic.

[BoyBach]

So my options are to either shoot, torture or do nothing?*

I'd put the kettle on and have a cup of tea - providing they haven't already half-hinched the kettle, mugs and tea bags - before setting the cat onto them. That'll learn 'em!


*US foreign policy in all its intricacies right there! :p

[kavika411]

I would ask him/her/them whether they like Huey Lewis and the News. Regardless of the response, I'd go on and on about how their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercial and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far much more bitter, cynical sense of humour.

All the while I'd be putting plastic on the floor, donning a clear poncho and reaching for my axe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwicLgOGJOI

[Unspoken Demise]

I would ask him/her/them whether they like Huey Lewis and the News. Regardless of the response, I'd go on and on about how their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercial and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far much more bitter, cynical sense of humour.

All the while I'd be putting plastic on the floor, donning a clear poncho and reaching for my axe.

Brilliant :)
Although arsenic muffins are much less messy.
You dont want the robbers to be a burden even after they've been dispatched, do you?

[luminosity]

This thread seems like an excuse to pound your chest and tell people how much of a man (or woman) you would be.

[Dagless]

If they're just robbing us then I'd call the police and hope for the best. I couldn't kill someone, even if they wanted to kill me. Law aside it's still murder.

Luckily we don't get armed robberies around here. Knives yes, but rarely are people killed from confronting them.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Are they cute?

[waterskier2007]

all i have to say is Boom Headshot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY)

[Gelfin]

I would dump a bucket of hot coals on their heads. Jesus says that's just like being kind to them.

Similes are symmetric, right?

[kavika411]

I would dump a bucket of hot coals on their heads. Jesus says that's just like being kind to them.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

[InvalidUserID]

If they managed to get past my dog, I own a .45 that should do the trick.

I'd try to hold them at gunpoint until the cops come but if I feel threatened, I'm shooting. In an ideal situation, a shot in the thigh works but if I'm really threatened, I'm shooting the biggest target: the chest.

To quote the old East Flatbush Project track, I'd rather be judge by twelve than carried by six.

Sorry potential robbers, I don't play around.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

all i have to say is Boom Headshot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY)

"Wanna go for a jog? We can go for a jog."
"okay... but what's the knife for?"
"What do you mean? I run faster with a knife."

[Unspoken Demise]

all i have to say is Boom Headshot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY)

That video is gold.
Everything in life can be blamed on lag.
RL or not. :D

[spaceboots06]

"Wanna go for a jog? We can go for a jog."
"okay... but what's the knife for?"
"What do you mean? I run faster with a knife."

I would bring a Scout, if I had one...

[rick3000]

A friend of mines dad's is actually in prison now for shooting a burglar when he was not in any actual danger. But if their were no consequences, well let's just say there's a reason a keep a 9mm under my bed. My family is more important than a thief's life.

[No1451]

If they're just robbing us then I'd call the police and hope for the best. I couldn't kill someone, even if they wanted to kill me. Law aside it's still murder.

Luckily we don't get armed robberies around here. Knives yes, but rarely are people killed from confronting them.


Same, haven't heard any reports of it around here lately.

That being said, if it did happen and I had a reasonable doubt that they might be a risk to me or my family I would not hesitate to kill them on the spot. I'm not going to just "hope for the best", they have no right to be there and they certainly don't have the right to threaten me.

At the end of the day, my life is more important to me than theirs is, they can burn in hell for all I care.

[abijnk]

Are they cute?

This is vital, and I feel should be included in the question description before I can answer.

In all honesty, I do want a gun in my house. Then, in a situation such as this, I would get the hell out of the way and take my gun with me. You can have my property, that is replaceable, but screw with me or my family (as it someday might be) and I won't hesitate to do what it takes.

[Desertrat]

You don't shoot to kill or to maim. You shoot to end the threat, if shooting is necessary. If just the display of a firearm is sufficient, that's all that needs be done.

If you do have to shoot, keep doing so until the threat is ended.

raggedjimmi, it's not murder to kill in self defense. It is a duty and responsibility to yourself and your family. Part of your obligation to them is to be available and helpful throughout your lifetime--which means that you're obligated to maximize your lifespan as necessary.

'Rat

[Jaffa Cake]

Assuming it's one-on-one and there's not a gang of them, it would have to be a Tombstone Piledriver onto a steel chair, followed by an elbow drop.

Surprisingly though, I don't see this listed among the options? :confused:

[BoyBach]

Assuming it's one-on-one and there's not a gang of them, it would have to be a Tombstone Piledriver onto a steel chair, followed by an elbow drop.

Surprisingly though, I don't see this listed among the options? :confused:


Surely the Piledriver would be enough? The elbow drop would just be overkill.

[iGary]

Sorry in advance, skunk.

I'd blow their ruddy head off.

[Jaffa Cake]

Surely the Piledriver would be enough? The elbow drop would just be overkill.As the 'Rat points out, I have a duty and responsibility to myself and my family. If someone breaks in and tries to nick our crisps, mercy would be in short supply.

[waterskier2007]

Assuming it's one-on-one and there's not a gang of them, it would have to be a Tombstone Piledriver onto a steel chair, followed by an elbow drop.

Surprisingly though, I don't see this listed among the options? :confused:

screw that, just go sweet chin music all up and down their a$$

[spaceboots06]

A friend of mines dad's is actually in prison now for shooting a burglar when he was not in any actual danger. But if their were no consequences, well let's just say there's a reason a keep a 9mm under my bed. My family is more important than a thief's life.

Woah, really? What happened???

Surely the Piledriver would be enough? The elbow drop would just be overkill.

Yeah, I think he might get excessive force slapped onto his sentence... :D:D

[redwarrior]

All my dad had to do was raise the gun to the level of the intruders' eyes and they turned and ran away. Another time he fired in the air and they ran. Guns don't have to be fired to be effective. I understand that not every situation is the same, but these were good outcomes.

If the lives of my loved ones were threatened, I would shoot to kill.

[LizKat]

Seriously you gotta be more than a little off the wall to break into a house, and especially in a rural area. People keep weapons and have dogs or alarm systems or both, since there is no way the county sheriff can be all over the map at once. You get the law to come write up the paperwork after the dust settles.

Me, I don't have a gun since all my neighbors have enough weaponry to start or put down the next revolution (to hear them talk sometimes). I'd listen for a footfall on the stairwell and when I heard it, then flip my fire escape chain ladder over the windowsill and depart the premises. Drive into town, roust a sleeping sheriff's deputy, see if he wants to follow me back out of town and write up the hunting accident or whatever he elects to call it when he finds out my dogs got carried away and mistreated some fools who broke into my place in the night.

[BoyBach]

As the 'Rat points out, I have a duty and responsibility to myself and my family. If someone breaks in and tries to nick our crisps, mercy would be in short supply.


Crisps, eh? Maybe if you substituted the elbow drop for a figure-four leg lock you could hold said intruder and eat a packet of Salt and Vinegar whilst waiting for PC Plod to arrive. Win-win!

[mscriv]

I voted torture. Why, because you said there would be no consequences.

Seriously, this is one of those areas in life where you just snap. We've all seen it in the movies or maybe even in real life. When someone just loses their mind and starts screaming things like, "You come into my house! and think you can just take my stuff! Well, you've got another thing coming Mr. I think I can do whatever I want... !!!" :mad:

What kind of torture? I'm not sure. But, I know it would be very satisfying, for me at least. :D

Aren't suspension of reality posts fun?

[OutThere]

To be honest, of the people who buy a handgun and keep it in a drawer by their bed very few are trained well enough to be able to differentiate between 'shooting to kill' and 'shooting to maim', particularly while scared and shaking from adrenaline. You'll be shooting in their general direction.

If armed people were robbing your house I think that shooting one of them would be a quick way to provoke them into attacking you. They came to your house with weapons to discourage you from trying to attack them, now you've shot them, what reason do they have not to shoot back? If they're simply taking your stuff, shooting at them introduces so much variability to the situation...you've suddenly gone from losing all of your valuables (bad) to initiating a gunfight with armed robbers (worse). If there are multiple robbers the chance that you blow all of their heads off before they have a chance to shoot back is essentially 0.

Why take the risk of you or your family getting killed over material possessions? Everything is replaceable except a life.

Also, where's the option for 'point the gun at them and make them leave'? I hate the 'shoot first, think later' attitude ffs. Why run around playing Wyatt Earp when you could have called the police at the first sound of someone breaking in, hid in the closet and had them deal with it? Personally I'd just hit the panic button on our alarm system, set the siren off and watch them run away. :p

[spaceboots06]

To be honest, of the people who buy a handgun and keep it in a drawer by their bed very few are trained well enough to be able to differentiate between 'shooting to kill' and 'shooting to maim', particularly while scared and shaking from adrenaline. You'll be shooting in their general direction.

If armed people were robbing your house I think that shooting one of them would be a quick way to provoke them into attacking you. They came to your house with weapons to discourage you from trying to attack them, now you've shot them, what reason do they have not to shoot back? If they're simply taking your stuff, shooting at them introduces so much variability to the situation...you've suddenly gone from losing all of your valuables (bad) to initiating a gunfight with armed robbers (worse). If there are multiple robbers the chance that you blow all of their heads off before they have a chance to shoot back is essentially 0.

Why take the risk of you or your family getting killed over material possessions? Everything is replaceable except a life.

Also, where's the option for 'point the gun at them and make them leave'? I hate the 'shoot first, think later' attitude ffs.

But don't you yourself know the ins and outs of your house best? I would be able to navigate my home an infinite amount times better than an intruder.

[MacDawg]

If one or more armed people broke into your home with the intention of taking your valuables and not letting anything get in his/her/their way would you do? Let's suspend reality a little and say there would be no consequences for the actions you might take.

If I had a weapon I would try to shoot to kill.

Unless of course it is a 12' python that is there to eat your baby ;) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=737998)

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[OutThere]

But don't you yourself know the ins and outs of your house best? I would be able to navigate my home an infinite amount times better than an intruder.

I do know my house well, so I know the best places to hide out until they leave.

I've also lived in the same house for 21 years and still trip over stuff and run into walls in the dark. How well you know the house seems irrelevant when you're scared and people are shooting guns.

[Iscariot]

I suppose it would depend what kind of units they sent, but I would try to hold them off until my Gateway warped in. Since my early game is pretty solid, I'd probably have Zealots before any real damage was done but I might lose a Probe or two.

[spaceboots06]

Unless of course it is a 12' python that is there to eat your baby ;) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=737998)

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

:mad:

You got me.

:o

:D

[skunk]

Sorry in advance, skunk.

I'd blow their ruddy head off.<sigh>

I would go up into my loft, lift the ladder, shut the trapdoor and wait for the police.

[ddeadserious]

The sound of a shotgun racking is generally enough to send chills down an intruders spine. No need to yell anything, no need to run out all Rambo style on them. Rack your shotgun and they'll likely leave, unless they're there for more than posessions.

For home defense, it'd be a shotgun, hands down. If you have any kind of weapons training, you can't miss, and it's gonna do a hell of alot of damage, regardless of where you hit. Not many people survive close range shotgun blasts, so I'd assume that if I shot, the perp is likely going to die.

As said previously though, you shoot to neutralize the threat. If I blow the perp's arm off and his gun goes flying across the room, I think the threat can be considered neutralized. No need to shoot more and to lose control of the situation.

[abijnk]

<sigh>

I would go up into my loft, lift the ladder, shut the trapdoor and wait for the police.

Now that is effective. Blueprints please?

[skunk]

Now that is effective. Blueprints please?If I published the blueprints it wouldn't be nearly so effective, would it? ;)

[Rodimus Prime]

The sound of a shotgun racking is generally enough to send chills down an intruders spine. No need to yell anything, no need to run out all Rambo style on them. Rack your shotgun and they'll likely leave, unless they're there for more than posessions.

For home defense, it'd be a shotgun, hands down. If you have any kind of weapons training, you can't miss, and it's gonna do a hell of alot of damage, regardless of where you hit. Not many people survive close range shotgun blasts, so I'd assume that if I shot, the perp is likely going to die.

As said previously though, you shoot to neutralize the threat. If I blow the perp's arm off and his gun goes flying across the room, I think the threat can be considered neutralized. No need to shoot more and to lose control of the situation.

True on that. Shoot guns is one of those weapons that you just have to be pointing in their general direction to hit them.

Shot guns was a favorit weapon in the old west for law enforcement because of that reason. Another random fact is during WWI the Germans tried to get the weapon banned from war for how effective it was. The US troops brought them when they joined the war and they were deadly effective.

[miniConvert]

Keep quiet and call the police.

I'd probably try and run away/get out of the house, too. Anything to avoid being in a situation where my life would be in danger.

I don't think I could ever actually try and kill the intruder, though... I mean, sure, they shouldn't be there, but that wouldn't make me want to kill them. At the very worst, in a dire situation I'd try and injure them somehow so I could escape.

[Jack Flash]

My $800 LCD TV isn't worth someone's life, regardless of some 'responsibility' I have to protect my property.

[dukebound85]

id warn them with a gun aimed on them and if they advanced towards me with ill intent, id shoot at them

[Mousse]

Crisps, eh? Maybe if you substituted the elbow drop for a figure-four leg lock you could hold said intruder and eat a packet of Salt and Vinegar whilst waiting for PC Plod to arrive. Win-win!

Wouldn't you be obligated to release the intruder if he taps out?;)

No reprocussions for your actions, eh? Torture is the only way to go then. Possible stick their head on a stake in you front yard to warn other would be intruders.

Of course, there are reprocussions, so my choice would be shoot to kill. They can't sue you if they're dead. And when words gets out that a certain homeowner doesn't take guff from robbers, the small fries robbers would steer clear. Having nothing of worth would keep the big fish away.

[remmy]

I notice there is a choice of shooting or dismemberment. There should be another option which states defence with out the use of a gun, because I has to select dismemberment.

probarly by long sharp metal ruler (dont annoy designers)

[SLC Flyfishing]

.........Not many people survive close range shotgun blasts, so I'd assume that if I shot, the perp is likely going to die..........

A bit OT but I was working the ER at a local Trauma center when the Trolley Square shooting happened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

We got two of the 4 injured survivors, true more died than lived, but my patient was very badly wounded and still pulled through.

SLC

I'd rather not shoot (and I don't own a gun) but I would if I felt the need to.

[spaceboots06]

The sound of a shotgun racking is generally enough to send chills down an intruders spine. No need to yell anything, no need to run out all Rambo style on them. Rack your shotgun and they'll likely leave, unless they're there for more than posessions.

For home defense, it'd be a shotgun, hands down. If you have any kind of weapons training, you can't miss, and it's gonna do a hell of alot of damage, regardless of where you hit. Not many people survive close range shotgun blasts, so I'd assume that if I shot, the perp is likely going to die.

As said previously though, you shoot to neutralize the threat. If I blow the perp's arm off and his gun goes flying across the room, I think the threat can be considered neutralized. No need to shoot more and to lose control of the situation.

Yes, but when you have really long hallways problems arise.

[Iscariot]

I keep seven jars of live bees around the house, hidden in strategic locations. Were intruders to break in, I would unleash swarm after swarm of deadly Africanized terror.

[hulugu]

I just rely on the vast hordes of mounted archers whose encampments encircle my palace, and who will ravage Samarkand immediately upon my order.

The real problem is keeping this endless horde of men and horses from pillaging the neighbors or I'll never hear the end of it from the neighborhood association.

[jpk32092]

my dogs would take care of any intruders. I don't need a gun.

[opinioncircle]

Don't have a gun and don't have much to steal...Too many heroes in the cemeteries, yeah I'm fine just calling the authorities...

[ucfgrad93]

Call the cops first if possible. If I or my family is threatened, shoot to kill. I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.

[Iscariot]

Call the cops first if possible. If I or my family is threatened, shoot to kill. I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.

I'd rather be humped by two than beaten by three and a quarter.

[spaceboots06]

I'd rather be humped by two than beaten by three and a quarter.

Only disturbing thoughts are going through my brain right now. :o:(

[Diane2boys]

[

[Iscariot]

Anyone foolish enough to break into my house is a threat and will be covered in snakes. no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Granted, they have to get thru my moat, past my two 600lb daughters, and past me. and I have like eleven paint cans tied to door frames and I know how to use them.

Plus, I know like six wrestling moves, and I have a belt with sharp studs on it.

[Diane2boys]

[

[dmr727]

I know like six wrestling moves

You are no match for my Mongolian Chop! Kin Corn Karn FTW!

[spaceboots06]

http://the-adventurers-club.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/resident_evil_laser_defense.jpg

From the first Resident Evil movie. I was talking to someone on the phone about getting them installed but it would be way too costly and I know my Con Ed would skyrocket.

[LizKat]

I do know my house well, so I know the best places to hide out until they leave.

I've also lived in the same house for 21 years and still trip over stuff and run into walls in the dark. How well you know the house seems irrelevant when you're scared and people are shooting guns.

Start by giving up the sauce, it will probably cure the walls thing. ;)

I don't know about the scared part. Scared usually comes later, after your brain thinks it's safe enough to let you know that you're scared. Under attack, I have been angry first, not scared. Either way it's about adrenalin city, so it's like riding a rocket. But you're right that strong emotions can change what you "know" about familiar surroundings. That's why they always say to practice fire drills with your family so there are not just instructions floating around your head about that, but some actual motor memory as well, on how to get the heck out right now.

[spaceboots06]

Start by giving up the sauce, it will probably cure the walls thing. ;)

I don't know about the scared part. Scared usually comes later, after your brain thinks it's safe enough to let you know that you're scared. Under attack, I have been angry first, not scared. Either way it's about adrenalin city, so it's like riding a rocket. But you're right that strong emotions can change what you "know" about familiar surroundings. That's why they always say to practice fire drills with your family so there are not just instructions floating around your head about that, but some actual motor memory as well, on how to get the heck out right now.

It must be all of those chocolate syrup wrestling matches that lead to slipping and banging into walls.

[OutThere]

Start by giving up the sauce, it will probably cure the walls thing. ;)

I don't know about the scared part. Scared usually comes later, after your brain thinks it's safe enough to let you know that you're scared. Under attack, I have been angry first, not scared. Either way it's about adrenalin city, so it's like riding a rocket. But you're right that strong emotions can change what you "know" about familiar surroundings. That's why they always say to practice fire drills with your family so there are not just instructions floating around your head about that, but some actual motor memory as well, on how to get the heck out right now.

Ultimately by saying 'scared' I was referring to the various emotions of fear, anger, etc that make you not think clearly in that kind of situation. While living in France I came home to find the back door open and muddy footprints leading up the stairs...was I scared of what I'd find upstairs? You bet! I was ********** angry when I found out minutes later that they'd stolen my Powerbook.

Adrenaline is crazy thing...I was hit by a car crossing the street last October, bending the hood of the car and throwing me onto the pavement (Screech, thump, smack!). I was somehow uninjured but high as a kite on adrenaline. I started laughing when people asked me if I was okay and got on the subway and went to class...it was only about two hours later that it hit me that I'd actually been hit by a car. :p

[KingYaba]

A sonic weapon would be nifty.

[Diane2boys]

[

[SydneyDev]

If one or more armed people broke into your home with the intention of taking your valuables

This is unrealistic. If someone busts in to your house you have no way of knowing what they want. Even if they say they only want your valuables, how can you trust that?

In the absence of any reliable evidence as to what they want, prudence dictates that you do not surrender.

[blackfox]

I would like to think that the scenario would go as follows:

1. Woken up in the middle of the night by noise signifying an unspecified threat of intruders.

2. Get quietly out of bed, put on black outfit - complete with balaclava, gloves, torch and satchel.

3. Slink around.

4. If I run into the intruders - act surprised, yet professional. Inquire as to proper etiquette in said situation - team up, part ways or another option. I would be sure to provide valuable intel such as (a) There doesn't appear to be anyone home, (b) the owner seems to be kind of a slob, (c) there doesn't appear to be much of value to steal or rape, and (d) that I passed a really promising-looking diner on the way - and pancakes sound good.

5. If I don't run into anyone after a while, I'll probably just make a sandwich and watch a little TV till I feel sleepy again.

[Iscariot]

I would like to think that the scenario would go as follows:

1. Woken up in the middle of the night by noise signifying an unspecified threat of intruders.

2. Get quietly out of bed, put on black outfit - complete with balaclava, gloves, torch and satchel.

3. Slink around.

4. If I run into the intruders - act surprised, yet professional. Inquire as to proper etiquette in said situation - team up, part ways or another option. I would be sure to provide valuable intel such as (a) There doesn't appear to be anyone home, (b) the owner seems to be kind of a slob, (c) there doesn't appear to be much of value to steal or rape, and (d) that I passed a really promising-looking diner on the way - and pancakes sound good.

5. If I don't run into anyone after a while, I'll probably just make a sandwich and watch a little TV till I feel sleepy again.

/thread.

I tip my hat, sir.

[skunk]

Now I see why they call him the Black Fox. Fiendishly cunning! :D

[emt1]

I would not "shoot to kill" or "shoot to maim".

I would shoot to stop the threat.

[Diane2boys]

[

[spaceboots06]

LOL...and when you shoot to stop a threat it's 2 to center mass, 1 to the head....what do you think that is going to do???.....:rolleyes:

Nooooo! If you shoot towards the head they'll be unrecognizable!

EDIT: And, emt1, you didn't address "ur" in your signature!!!

[emt1]

Nooooo! If you shoot towards the head they'll be unrecognizable!

EDIT: And, emt1, you didn't address "ur" in your signature!!!

I ran out of characters and I wanted to list the ones that I find most annoying.

LOL...and when you shoot to stop a threat it's 2 to center mass, 1 to the head....what do you think that is going to do???.....:rolleyes:

If you shoot to kill, in my opinion, you're really just a murderer. I would not *want* to kill or hurt anyone... my goal would be to stop the threat.

[Diane2boys]

[

[Diane2boys]

.

[emt1]

Self protection is NEVER murder. If people are threatening you (and a home invasion is about as bad as it gets cause usually everyone in the home is killed) then it is a lethal threat, and it comes down to you or them. If you are willing to die for someone who is breaking into your home to rob you, then so be it, I'm not.

If it's between me or them, it's going to be me........

I would shoot the stop the threat. Chances are, they will die as a result of that, but my intent is NOT to kill them. If they are injured severely, and unconscious on the floor, I would not "finish them off" by shooting them in the head, because my intent was not to kill.

[mactastic]

I would shoot the stop the threat. Chances are, they will die as a result of that, but my intent is NOT to kill them. If they are injured severely, and unconscious on the floor, I would not "finish them off" by shooting them in the head, because my intent was not to kill.
Shooting an intruder in the head as they lay unconscious on the floor is NOT self defense; and is, in fact, homicide. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that such an act would be in any way justified, are they?

The way I was taught, the general rule of thumb is that when their knees hit the ground (as a result of an act on your part, not because they decide to kneel and attack), the threat they present is largely over, and you continue an attack on that person at the risk of being prosecuted for assault or worse. Obviously this isn't ironclad, as someone with a gun may still be entirely capable of harming you while dying on their knees, but it's a good starting place for evaluation of the threat.

[emt1]

Shooting an intruder in the head as they lay unconscious on the floor is NOT self defense; and is, in fact, homicide. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that such an act would be in any way justified, are they?

The way I was taught, the general rule of thumb is that when their knees hit the ground (as a result of an act on your part, not because they decide to kneel and attack), the threat they present is largely over, and you continue an attack on that person at the risk of being prosecuted for assault or worse. Obviously this isn't ironclad, as someone with a gun may still be entirely capable of harming you while dying on their knees, but it's a good starting place for evaluation of the threat.

"Shooting to kill" would mean that you would continue to shoot until the intruder is dead.

[mactastic]

"Shooting to kill" would mean that you would continue to shoot until the intruder is dead.
You shoot center mass. End of story. "Shooting to kill" shouldn't even be a term of debate in this situation.

[emt1]

You shoot center mass. End of story. "Shooting to kill" shouldn't even be a term of debate in this situation.

Agreed.

[anjinha]

Should I answer if I don't even own a gun?

Still I think I would try to call 911 and run or hide if possible unless my loved ones were in danger (i.e. my cat, my iPhone and my MacBook :D).

[Diane2boys]

[

[OutThere]

Self protection is NEVER murder.

There's a huge grey area here....if someone walks into your unlocked house at night and you shoot him in the face because you felt threatened, is that self defense or murder? Was he going to attack you? Will you ever know?

(and a home invasion is about as bad as it gets cause usually everyone in the home is killed)

What's your source on that? There have been some grisly and well publicized home invasion murders, but I can't imagine that home invasions 'usually' wind up with everyone getting killed. It's a horrible outcome and you hear about it on the 11 o'clock news, yes, but not every home invasion winds up like that.



I stand by my feeling that shooting at an intruder is a quick way to escalate things and create a truly dangerous situation out of one that might otherwise not have been. Having a gun in the first place discourages any sort of non-violent thought when threatened. If you have a gun by your bed are you going to hide in the closet and call 911? No you're going to go downstairs and maybe get shot yourself. On the subject of gun ownership it certainly makes me uncomfortable that this hypothetical person breaking into my house may have brought his legally purchased .357 and some hollowpoints.

[Diane2boys]

[

[mactastic]

There's a huge grey area here....if someone walks into your unlocked house at night and you shoot him in the face because you felt threatened, is that self defense or murder? Was he going to attack you? Will you ever know?
While there is some grey area in the self-defense statutes, the standard is generally whether a hypothetical "reasonable person" would feel that their life was in danger when they fired.

[OutThere]

While there is some grey area in the self-defense statutes, the standard is generally whether a hypothetical "reasonable person" would feel that their life was in danger when they fired.

This 'reasonable person' clearly varies state-to-state...for example in Florida (among other states) where the law provides the presumption that someone breaking and entering has intent to cause harm to the person within, and lethal force against the intruder is therefore legally permissible. Shoot first think later. :rolleyes:

Perhaps my example of someone walking in through an unlocked door was not the best...as stand your ground laws tend to apply to forced entry.

Basically in all of this I feel that most Americans are irrationally afraid, own too many guns and are too willing to play the part of judge, jury and executioner all by themselves.

[Greenhoe]

I would shoot to kill with out hesitation (if i saw they had a weapon), although if they even touched one of my family members I would cut off each finger until they were almost dead then take them to my closet and show them my gun collection and have them pick which gun they would like to be shot with.

I would never be able to just kill someone although if my families life or my life was in danger I would have no problem and don't think I would even lose any sleep over it.

[Greenhoe]

On the subject of gun ownership it certainly makes me uncomfortable that this hypothetical person breaking into my house may have brought his legally purchased .357 and some hollowpoints.

If guns are illegal then a thief would get a gun no matter what if they wanted one. So that would leave us with criminals with guns and us left unprotected.

[adamerr]

I'm thinking bamboo torture.
:)

But it all depends on how long we have with the intruders.
Are we assuming nobody cares how long they are away?
Because if they have an overprotective mother at home I'd have to speed up the process.

-spears-
;)

[OutThere]

If guns are illegal then a thief would get a gun no matter what if they wanted one. So that would leave us with criminals with guns and us left unprotected.

Obviously, there is a problem with criminals having access to guns, which is why so many people feel they, too, need a gun for self-defense. But this is a vicious cycle: FBI Crime Reports sources indicate that there are about 340,000 reported firearms thefts every year. Those guns, the overwhelming amount of which were originally manufactured and purchased legally, and now in the hands of criminals. Thus, the old credo "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is silly. What happens is many guns bought legally are sold or stolen, and can then be used for crime. If those 340,000 guns were never sold or owned in the first place, that would be 340,000 less guns in the hands of criminals every year. Part of the reason there are so many guns on the street in the hands of criminals is precisely because so many are sold legally. Certainly, there will always be a way to obtain a gun illegally. But if obtaining a gun legally is extremely difficult, the price of illegal guns goes way up, and availability goes way down. Thus, it is much more difficult for criminals to obtain guns.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ZJ5J-GTTL/guns.htm

[anjinha]

^^ Thank you!!

I have nothing against people having guns but I do think that guns being that easy to get in the U.S. does more harm than good.

[spaceboots06]

Should I answer if I don't even own a gun?

Still I think I would try to call 911 and run or hide if possible unless my loved ones were in danger (i.e. my cat, my iPhone and my MacBook :D).

Same. Except refrigerator and its contents too.

[SydneyDev]

if they even touched one of my family members I would cut off each finger until they were almost dead then take them to my closet and show them my gun collection and have them pick which gun they would like to be shot with.

How would they point to it without any fingers?

[mactastic]

This 'reasonable person' clearly varies state-to-state...for example in Florida (among other states) where the law provides the presumption that someone breaking and entering has intent to cause harm to the person within, and lethal force against the intruder is therefore legally permissible. Shoot first think later. :rolleyes:
Obviously some states are outliers. Florida and Texas, prominently. In the rest of the nation, my general statement is applicable. Nevertheless, as these statutes are written and enforced on a state-by-state basis, it behooves one to know the laws of their own state.

[Desertrat]

anjimhamarota, you might be surprised at the hoops one must go through, nowadays, to legally acquire a firearm.

Until 1934, machine guns were not regulated. Until 1968, the postman would deliver your handgun or other firearm from a seller in another state. Now, purchase of a new firearm requires the filling out of a multi-page form with all manner of personal information and also a records-check by the FBI.

An individual may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state. Such sales must go through a licensed dealer and the above-mentioned form (4473) must be filled out by the purchaser.

Some states have even more restrictive laws.

None of the above has ever had any effect on the rate of violent crimes.

[No1451]

anjimhamarota, you might be surprised at the hoops one must go through, nowadays, to legally acquire a firearm.

Until 1934, machine guns were not regulated. Until 1968, the postman would deliver your handgun or other firearm from a seller in another state. Now, purchase of a new firearm requires the filling out of a multi-page form with all manner of personal information and also a records-check by the FBI.

An individual may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state. Such sales must go through a licensed dealer and the above-mentioned form (4473) must be filled out by the purchaser.

Some states have even more restrictive laws.

None of the above has ever had any effect on the rate of violent crimes.

Agree entirely, gun control should be strict but it really doesn't help at all. The people who will do things with guns are NOT going to be purchasing them legally.

Guns are not and never have been the problem, it's the same as always, lack of education, lack of compassion and lack of intelligence on the part of the users.

[bbotte]

Well since we have Castle Doctrine here, there is no suspension of reality of concequences. If a person breaks into your house the presumption of "Life threatening actions" is automatic to the Criminal. So you fire and there is no lawful action including civil that can be brought to the Home owner for a fatal shot or mamming shot. I voted, shoot to kill, theives, rapists, ect. are the lowest form of life on this planet. It is best to skip my house if you are a criminal, hell my wife is a better shot than I am, and I am pretty good with a .40. I am a legal gun owner.

[Iscariot]

The people who will do things with guns are NOT going to be purchasing them legally.

All illegal guns started out their lives as legal guns. The laxadasial attitude 'Rat just mentioned that existed for decades is what ultimately led to this level of proliferation.

That said, the genie can't be put back in the bottle. Gun control isn't going to do anything in the short term. Education reform, a real strategy to tackle poverty and an end to Rambonomics are the keys to keeping violence down.

[bbotte]

^^ Thank you!!

I have nothing against people having guns but I do think that guns being that easy to get in the U.S. does more harm than good.

I bet there are some Iranians that wish getting guns were easier right now. that is what happens to a populace that has "Gun Control".

A great quote:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
(Japanese Navy)

[northy124]

Shoot to Kill :D

[OutThere]

I bet there are some Iranians that wish getting guns were easier right now. that is what happens to a populace that has "Gun Control".


So they could shoot each other and be just like Americans?


A great quote:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
(Japanese Navy)


Funny that the most heavily armed parts of America are rural, and therefore largely irrelevant to an invading force. Anyway this justification for gun ownership is unnecessary fearmongering...who is going to invade the US? http://drien.com/macrumors/random/gonemad.gif

[hulugu]

I bet there are some Iranians that wish getting guns were easier right now. that is what happens to a populace that has "Gun Control".

I'm sure, but for the opposite possibility witness Iraq or Afghanistan where large numbers of civilians are armed and weapons are relatively easy to attain.

For the peaceful protestors of Iran, a large supply of weapons may have devolved the demonstrations into running gun battles that would have made it even easier for the Iranian government to institute a violent and horrendous crackdown. Protestors wouldn't just be faced with truncheon-welding police, but with machine guns, tanks, and helicopters.

[skunk]

...who is going to invade the US? Indeed, who would want to?

[toolbox]

I would attempt to take out a leg so there unable to walk then tie em up and call the cops

[CorvusCamenarum]

Indeed, who would want to?

Mexico seems to be doing a pretty good job of it . Apparently the secret lies not in crossing the border with guns, but looking to mow someone's lawn.

[hulugu]

Mexico seems to be doing a pretty good job of it . Apparently the secret lies not in crossing the border with guns, but looking to mow someone's lawn.

That's how the Visigoths did it. Started mowing the Roman lawns and then Bam! invasion.

It's also interesting how no one counts the Guatemalans, Hondurans, Dominicans, El Salvadorians, Nicaraguans, etc.

[skunk]

Mexico seems to be doing a pretty good job of it . Apparently the secret lies not in crossing the border with guns, but looking to mow someone's lawn.Must be difficult to mow the lawn when there's a gun behind every blade of grass.

[spaceboots06]

All illegal guns started out their lives as legal guns. The laxadasial attitude 'Rat just mentioned that existed for decades is what ultimately led to this level of proliferation.

That said, the genie can't be put back in the bottle. Gun control isn't going to do anything in the short term. Education reform, a real strategy to tackle poverty and an end to Rambonomics are the keys to keeping violence down.

I'm not exactly sure but aren't some imported legally/ made here in the US and sold illegally without every starting off as legal? Saturday night specials, one time use pistols, imported handguns and micro machine guns from the east?

[MotleyPete]

I don't have a gun, but fortunately I live in England where burglars having guns are as common as burglars dressed as giant bananas.

I do worry about the zombie holocaust though, especially in suburbia.

[Dagless]

Self protection is NEVER murder.
It is if you kill someone. Regardless of the situation, the victims history or anything else - you are still ending a human life.

I'm a fan of the preventative measures here. Like using house alarms, stronger glass, locks on all doors leading to areas of value or bedrooms.
We were burgled years ago. They went through the garage (unalarmed) but when they tried to enter the house the alarm went off and they escaped. Dropping a few things in the process too (including a TV I was going to use as a monitor for my Amiga :mad:).

But like I said before, and along with the poster above me, I live in England so burglars don't normally kill.

[Iscariot]

I'm not exactly sure but aren't some imported legally/ made here in the US and sold illegally without every starting off as legal? Saturday night specials, one time use pistols, imported handguns and micro machine guns from the east?

The only exception is homejobs. Everything else was manufactured legally somewhere, even if not within the US.

[spaceboots06]

It is if you kill someone. Regardless of the situation, the victims history or anything else - you are still ending a human life.

I'm a fan of the preventative measures here. Like using house alarms, stronger glass, locks on all doors leading to areas of value or bedrooms.
We were burgled years ago. They went through the garage (unalarmed) but when they tried to enter the house the alarm went off and they escaped. Dropping a few things in the process too (including a TV I was going to use as a monitor for my Amiga :mad:).

But like I said before, and along with the poster above me, I live in England so burglars don't normally kill.

Two eyes for an eye, that's how I see it.

No matter what situation I'm in I can't stand when someone personally attacks me, verbally or physically. If someone insults me for whatever reason in a coffee shop or something I'm going to insult them back, louder and in a more degrading manner. If someone shoves me or slaps me or something, I'm going to knock one of their teeth out. Now, I've never had someone enter my home illegally but if they were to they wouldn't be leaving in the same state they came.

I think it's okay in many circumstances to take a life.

[bbotte]

But like I said before, and along with the poster above me, I live in England so burglars don't normally kill.

Here in the city I live in, there was a piece of **** that broke into a persons house to steal stuff, he ended up shooting a freakin 2 year old which he killed and shot the father in the chest and left. I have a 2 year old, shoot first ask questions later, if you are not suposed to be in my house you will be removed in a body bag. End of story.

[BoyBach]

I think it's okay in many circumstances to take a life.


Such as?

[spaceboots06]

Such as?

I mean the list goes on forever!

I think it's especially okay when the person has then intention of taking your or one of your loved one's life and it's "self defense."

[paddy]

I mean the list goes on forever!

You sound as if you're just waiting for the opportunity. :rolleyes:

[skunk]

You're all so freaking butch! I wish I was like that.

[Gelfin]

You're all so freaking butch! I wish I was like that.

I know! It's just so dreamy. I've often said the only meaningful measure of a man's worth is how unrestrained he is in averring his willingness and ability to kick other people's asses. America is clearly the better for our superior prioritization along these lines.

Any similarity to hooting, growling, terrified animals trying to make themselves appear large and threatening in the hopes the opponents they fear will just go away is purely coincidental.

[spaceboots06]

I know! It's just so dreamy. I've often said the only meaningful measure of a man's worth is how unrestrained he is in averring his willingness and ability to kick other people's asses. America is clearly the better for our superior prioritization along these lines.

Any similarity to hooting, growling, terrified animals trying to make themselves appear large and threatening in the hopes the opponents they fear will just go away is purely coincidental.

"If men weren't competitive, they would be women." - Thomas Edison

[Gelfin]

"If men weren't competitive, they would be women." - Thomas Edison

I don't believe I expressed any opinion whatsoever on competitiveness. However, that Edison, or, "the Menlo Park Mangler," as history remembers him, was surely a man I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley.

[DoNoHarm]

why isn't "point the gun at the intruder and ask him/her to leave" an option?

Given my name, I won't say any more about what I'd do.

[paddy]

I'd love to meet the keyboard warriors who voted for dismemberment/torture.

[Macky-Mac]

You're all so freaking butch! I wish I was like that.

well, you could be, but you'll have to start wearing something a bit more macho than those flip flops

[BaronvdB]

i'd hold them at gun point until the cops came if that was an option...if they busted in my room or something i'd shoot to kill...i've heard to many stories of home OWNERS getting sued by the criminals for injuries to just shoot a leg or something...they make the choice to risk their life when they break in to someones house and if they get killed it's their own fault.....i don't get the person who said something to the effect of "can't you point a gun at them and tell them to leave"...all that will do is let the criminal go rob someone else instead of you.

[jecapaga]

well, you could be, but you'll have to start wearing something a bit more macho than those flip flops

What's wrong with flip flops. Wish I was wearing them now. I thought the word macho was officially retired.

[Iscariot]

What's wrong with flip flops. Wish I was wearing them now. I thought the word macho was officially retired.

Snap into the spine of a home invader! Oh yeeeah!

http://friendsoftheprogram.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/macho.jpg

[Jaffa Cake]

When I suggested following up a piledriver with an elbow drop, I was told it was overkill. But if Randy Savage wants to do it, no one questions that do they?

Honestly. :rolleyes:

[Vulcan]

Keep quiet and call the authorities. If I felt I was in danger, I would shoot to kill.

[spaceboots06]

Snap into the spine of a home invader! Oh yeeeah!

http://friendsoftheprogram.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/macho.jpg

Unless the walls in your home are painted those colors, I couldn't see that outfit being too efficient. Or does that not matter because you're too macho to need to blend in. :p :D

[Ttownbeast]

I was never too keen on killing (except in extreme cases only), most persons can change their ways with proper motivation, crippling somebody is perfectly fine in my book because even a guy with serious anger management issues in a wheelchair can be a relatively productive member of society working at a Goodwill.

[BoyBach]

When I suggested following up a piledriver with an elbow drop, I was told it was overkill. But if Randy Savage wants to do it, no one questions that do they?

Honestly. :rolleyes:


Well, would you argue with a man wearing illuminous spandex and a cowboy hat?

[iBlue]

Dunno. I might keep quiet right before double air-horn surprising their ears at close range.

O HAI!

Then maybe I'd aim for the knees with my baseball bat, tie them up and play Achy Breaky Heart loudly on repeat and flick them with rubber bands until the cops arrived.

Believe it or not, I didn't vote for torture but I'm not above it in a petty sort of way.

[BoyBach]

...tie them up and play Achy Breaky Heart loudly on repeat...

:eek: You evil woman!

[spillproof]

I believe in "kill/incapacitate or be killed/incapacitated."

[iBlue]

"If men weren't competitive, they would be women." - Thomas Edison
Clearly he's never met some of the crazy competitive bitches that I have. MeeeOOOW! :p

:eek: You evil woman!
:D

[theITGuy]

You don't shoot to kill or to maim. You shoot to end the threat, if shooting is necessary. If just the display of a firearm is sufficient, that's all that needs be done.

If you do have to shoot, keep doing so until the threat is ended.


What he said ^^^^

-J.-

[Zombie Acorn]

3 shots center mass and call the police to deal with the rest.

[Iscariot]

3 shots center mass and call the police to deal with the rest.

Tequila, amirite?

[adamerr]

Tequila, amirite?

Ah yes that makes sense.
Make them do the shots without lemon and salt.

YOU BASTARD Zombie Acorn
:)

[spaceboots06]

Tequila, amirite?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_mm_caliber

http://c.ask.nate.com/imgs/qrsi.tsp/5622966/8587016/0/1/A/WNNeth_30mm_Goalkeeper_pic.jpg

I think three would be plenty.

Like the smaller 25 mm round, the 30 mm is not typically an anti-personnel weapon round. Instead, the 30 mm round is generally either an anti-materiel or armor-piercing round. Rounds of this size can be effective against armored vehicles as well as fortified bunkers.

A sane person wouldn't dare enter your home.

[hulugu]

Since this thread started, I've started to worry about the safety of my home, which I why I've purchased a couple of UA-571C 'Sentry Guns.' Perfect for defending your home or nearest colonial complex from bad guys and xenomorphs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_(film)).


http://media1.fxhome.com/preset-images/1832/preview.png

[Gelfin]

Since this thread started, I've started to worry about the safety of my home, which I why I've purchased a couple of UA-571C 'Sentry Guns.' Perfect for defending your home or nearest colonial complex from bad guys and xenomorphs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_(film)).


http://media1.fxhome.com/preset-images/1832/preview.png

Quick consumer tip: The UA-571C is not compatible with suspended ceiling environments. The money-back satisfaction guarantee will be invalidated if the unit is deployed in this manner.

[hulugu]

Quick consumer tip: The UA-571C is not compatible with suspended ceiling environments. The money-back satisfaction guarantee will be invalidated if the unit is deployed in this manner.

Do you know if Farmers covers the use of the UA-571C beneath my home fusion reactor?

I hate to be forced to defend myself using harsh language and a pump-action shotgun.

[BoyBach]

I hate to be forced to defend myself using harsh language and a pump-action shotgun.


You could always take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

You could always take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

But you'd have to wait until night. After all....


They mostly come out at night, mostly.

[Iscariot]

Do you know if Farmers covers the use of the UA-571C beneath my home fusion reactor?

I hate to be forced to defend myself using harsh language and a pump-action shotgun.

the Weyland-Yutani Corporation in co-operation with most insurance firms is able to guarantee the safety and compatibility of UA-571C "Sentry Guns" with Class-I through Class-III reactors, provided a Weyland-Yutani Corporation Hyperdine System's 120-A3 Artificial Person is present to direct and supervise their operation. Weyland-Yutani Corporation cannot guarantee safety or compatibility if a Hyperdine System's 120-A2 Artificial Person is used. There were problems and a few deaths were involved. The A2s always were a bit twitchy. That could never happen now with the A3's behavioral inhibitors.

[hulugu]

the Weyland-Yutani Corporation in co-operation with most insurance firms is able to guarantee the safety and compatibility of UA-571C "Sentry Guns" with Class-I through Class-III reactors, provided a Weyland-Yutani Corporation Hyperdine System's 120-A3 Artificial Person is present to direct and supervise their operation. Weyland-Yutani Corporation cannot guarantee safety or compatibility if a Hyperdine System's 120-A2 Artificial Person is used. There were problems and a few deaths were involved. The A2s always were a bit twitchy. That could never happen now with the A3's behavioral inhibitors.

With kind of indemnity, maybe I should just get a Conestoga-class light assault carrier and follow BoyBach's advice.

I'm just worried about having Lance Henriksen in my house.

[iBlue]

Give it to 'em good, tough guys.

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/gifs/guncockfire.gif

[Iscariot]

With kind of indemnity, maybe I should just get a Conestoga-class light assault carrier and follow BoyBach's advice.

I'm just worried about having Lance Henriksen in my house.

There's no telling which of his friends he'll bring.
http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_pumpkinhead_9.jpg