Concerns of iPhone 3GS Overheating and Discoloration Gaining Publicity

[*LTD*]

What temp do people think the iPhone should handle? Really, you have it out in the sun, making a 3G call while using a GPS function and you get upset that the thing can't handle 120F? I just can't believe a few stories of hot phones gets this much press. Really sucks to be on top....everybody waiting to pile on the first chance they get.
I get that there might 1% of phones with a battery issue causing heating problems, but get real folks....nothing to see hear...move on.:eek:

The temperature tolerances are all in the iPhone manual. It'll handle the same as any other device of its kind. Pretty standard. Nothing new and nothing surprising.

What Apple did do is update a previously published tech note advising customers of the safe operating temperatures of the iPhone. Now, why would Apple do this? Because it does it every time it releases a device like the iPhone 3GS. It's standard procedure for the company to continually update tech notes for all its products.

If there were real problems, you'd see a lot more than a tech note from Apple.

Dollar-to-dounuts they weren't able to replicate this issue. Those few, or that *one*, who are/is affected should simply get the unit replaced as per warranty and move on with life.

[Lanbrown]

There are plenty of other phones that have even more features and they do not have this issue. There are phones that use the same main processor that Apple uses at the same clock speed and they do not have this issue. To be fair, Apple is behind on the features they provide.

Cut and paste: 2002
Full GPS navigation built-in: 2007
MMS: 2002
Multitasking OS: 2002
HTML email on a mobile phone: ~2004
The list can go on.

So?

So how come this issue is unique to Apple? There are manufacturers that have sold hundreds of millions of phones that have more technology in them than the iPhone and they do not have reports of the phone getting to hot to hold or only being able to make emergency calls.

Providing them is one thing, providing them usably is another matter. I do not recall millions of pairs of hands using those features in the years you quote.


Yeah, you re right, it isn't millions that have had these features for years, but hundreds of millions. That is our interpertation of usuable. So, where is the GPS turn-by-turn app for the iPhone. Something I have been using longer than the iPhone has been avilable.

[dangleheart]

Lanbrown: I do not want to pick a quarrel here but just want to understand what product you have in mind. Which cellphone hand-held computer form factor product that had more technology than iPhone under the covers sold hundreds of millions? ( If you are just using this 'heat issue' as an opportunity to take a pot-shot at Apple, that is perfectly fine ;))

Other companies have not made any design breakthroughs to do something the hundreds or thousands of Apple engineers can not do. Outside of design defects, any difference in hardware architecture is just marginal and one of judicious combination of parts for an overall engineering of the product. And on software Apple definitely has an edge, though it is narrowing. So, I do not see where you are getting this other handheld makers' superiority in hardware packaging and features compared to Apple.

[Lanbrown]

Lanbrown: I do not want to pick a quarrel here but just want to understand what product you have in mind. Which cellphone hand-held computer form factor product that had more technology than iPhone under the covers sold hundreds of millions? ( If you are just using this 'heat issue' as an opportunity to take a pot-shot at Apple, that is perfectly fine ;))

Other companies have not made any design breakthroughs to do something the hundreds or thousands of Apple engineers can not do. Outside of design defects, any difference in hardware architecture is just marginal and one of judicious combination of parts for an overall engineering of the product. And on software Apple definitely has an edge, though it is narrowing. So, I do not see where you are getting this other handheld makers' superiority in hardware packaging and features compared to Apple.

Nokia/Symbian has sold hundreds of millions of handsets. Where is Flash and Java on the iPhone? I have both on my phone. I have had copy and paste for years, MMS for years, been able to tether (legally) for years, have had a browser for years, have had HTML email for years, have had GPS with true navigation for years, SIP VoIP for years (built-in too), FM Radio for years, being able to edit Office documents for years (built-in too), WLAN for years (all features can be used over WLAN or the mobile network), Voice recorder, voice commands for years, video recording for years, being able to watch and play music/videos for years, being able to select any sound file as a ringtone for years (no hacks or addition ringtone purchase required) and the list can go on and on. Just as Apple releases video recording, you have people like Samsung releasing the Omnia HD which can record in 720P. When the original iPhone was released; 3G phone were available for a few years. When Apple released iPhone 3G, 7.2Mbps phones have been available as well. Want to take a guess about LTE, Apple will be about two-years behind the rest of the major players.

There is no need for anyone to take potshots at the iPhone; it's features do that. What Apple considers "new" is old to the rest of the civilized world.

Care to show me a phone that has heat issues like the iPhone, one that will only let you make emergency calls when it gets hot?

Hate to break the news to you, but Apple has to license technology from companies like Nokia. Nokia has a lot of IP when it comes to GSM, WCDMA and LTE.

[dangleheart]

OK, I thought you had Nokia in mind but I was not sure...Got it.

Here is a heat issue discussion on Nokia phones: http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=14558

similar to what we are doing here.

[Tower-Union]

Could you please enlighten us as to which phone has (For years) had MMS, tethering, HTML E-mail, GPS, SIP, VoIP, FM radio, voice commands and video editing?

[dergoog]

I'm a little old school- my mount for my ipod touch when in use in the car is in front of the vent so cool air is always blowing past it.

Maybe its because I am an old geek who spent days figuring out how to cool his overclocked PC's but it just made sense to keep an ambient cooled device out of direct sunlight and if so, have something available to cool it. Even if apple didn't make a claim you needed to do so. My pc's never said you had to have a liquid cooled heatsink either :)

But I agree that they should at least give less geek oriented folk a statement... outside of the support doc.

[Lanbrown]

OK, I thought you had Nokia in mind but I was not sure...Got it.

Here is a heat issue discussion on Nokia phones: http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=14558

similar to what we are doing here.

That heat issue is nothing like what the iPhone has. The is a difference between getting warm and the phone only allowing emergency calls. I asked for an example for another phone that has heat issues like the iPhone; try again.

[dangleheart]

I do not need to try again. We are now quibbling on details.

[NokiaRules]

Could you please enlighten us as to which phone has (For years) had MMS, tethering, HTML E-mail, GPS, SIP, VoIP, FM radio, voice commands and video editing?Hahaha, I signed up for this forum just to answer your question.

The Nokia N95. Still going strong in my pocket. Released in 2007 and still way better than the iPhone in numerous ways. It has ACTUAL video editing built in. Not just "clipping" like the iPhone. About a billion more features too. And it's two years old.

One day Apple will catch up.... one day.

Pretty much every time you heard Jobs saying: "This is the FIRST phone to do this!" everyone on the Nokia forums were chuckling at you guys.

[*LTD*]

Hahaha, I signed up for this forum just to answer your question.

The Nokia N95. Still going strong in my pocket. Released in 2007 and still way better than the iPhone in numerous ways. It has ACTUAL video editing built in. Not just "clipping" like the iPhone. About a billion more features too. And it's two years old.

One day Apple will catch up.... one day.

Pretty much every time you heard Jobs saying: "This is the FIRST phone to do this!" everyone on the Nokia forums were chuckling at you guys.

Anyone can slap features on phones. That's the easy part. And the market is proving overwhelmingly that it takes much more to end up with a successful (and game-changing) product.

It's interesting that the iPhone, even lacking a few features that have been in other phones, has succeeded in making them look absolutely backward and primitve. Apple came at the concept of the handheld device from a completely different angle. That's what it takes.

[Lanbrown]

I do not need to try again. We are now quibbling on details.

Nope, that is where you are 100%. All devices that transmit or receive, generate heat. You have Apple that obviously has thermal issues and removes functionality from their product and then you have the rest of the industry that is able to avoid getting to that stage to begin with. I can use my phone all day long and not have a single issue. I can watch a movie, send and receives data, have the GPS active and BT running and have no issues at all. I can even have a document that I'm editing, a PDF file open, email open and syncing.

To be even more fair; my phone has TWO ARM processors, TWO DSP's and a GPU; where Apple is using a single ARM processor with a GPU. What generates more heat, a single processor with a GPU or two processors, two DSP's and a GPU? The iPhone doesn't even support true multitasking at all; thus much more limited.

[Lanbrown]

Could you please enlighten us as to which phone has (For years) had MMS, tethering, HTML E-mail, GPS, SIP, VoIP, FM radio, voice commands and video editing?

Which phone, no, it is phones.

MMS was first commercially introduced in 2002. So, as of when Apple has supported it, it is technology that is seven years old and has been widely deployed since 2003/2004 and was part of the original GPRS spec. The first iPhone was GPRS/EDGE and it was not new technology at all. Apple just didn't follow the standard that has been around for quite some time.

Tethering wise, I have been able to do that since I first got it back in 2002/2003. When BT was introduced, I was able to use it with tethering.

HTML mobile email; been using that since around 2004.

GPS; Nokia started to sell phones in early 2007 that had it built-in; most of the real smart-phones introduced in early 2007 had it. It was available before the iPhone was.

SIP; I can go back prior to 2007 and phones I had at that time had this capability. I can use SIP over WLAN or 3G.

FM radio; once again, a good number of phones have had this for years, some even have XM and this was a few years and still before the iPhone.

Voice commands; been using that since 2002 or 2003.

Video editing; try early 2007 and before the iPhone was released.

Opera has been on phones since 2003. Nokia started putting their browser on the phones staring in early 2007; it is based on KHTML; the same thing that Safari is based on. This too was before the iPhone was released.

As one person has mentioned, the Nokia N95 is just one such phone, but there are plenty of others from Nokia and other manufacturers. Pretty much all S60 3rd Edition phones have the above listed capabilities and then some. S60 3rd Edition was released in early 2007; before the iPhone.

[Lanbrown]

Anyone can slap features on phones. That's the easy part. And the market is proving overwhelmingly that it takes much more to end up with a successful (and game-changing) product.

It's interesting that the iPhone, even lacking a few features that have been in other phones, has succeeded in making them look absolutely backward and primitve. Apple came at the concept of the handheld device from a completely different angle. That's what it takes.

If the angle is to be behind the competition by two or three years and at least seven years in others, then you would be correct. The Compass that Apple is touting; Nokia showed that feature before the iPhone 3G was released.

It is more than just a few lacking features. Apple has sold what, 40 million smart phones in three years? Nokia sells more S60 smartphones in a single year than Apple has in three years. You are right about game changing though; the iPhone is just a toy. Nokia is selling over 1 million 5800's a month; that will be over 12 million per year; probably closer to 15 million. This is about what Apple sells in a year. So, one product to one product, they sell about the same. Using your thought process, S60 is even more game changing and successful that the iPhone. That means that the iPhone is primitive.

Apple has shown that they can toss a phone together with a few features and people will gladly pay for it.

[xIGmanIx]

Could you please enlighten us as to which phone has (For years) had MMS, tethering, HTML E-mail, GPS, SIP, VoIP, FM radio, voice commands and video editing?

stop calling it video editing, is video trimming. And i will say again, MMS and copy and paste were an Apple blunder, no way around it in my mind. I will say however that Apple did some things right, but the little stuff will kill you

[ronwasserman]

Never every buy the 1st gen of any new product Apple releases. Every time I've done it in the past it turned out to be a big problem.

1st notebook

The cube

1 gen iPhone

first gen G4 desktop

and a few others.

Took me a while to catch on.

[Concorde Rules]

Mine gets warm, I leave it in a foof pod sock and its still fine.

No issues here!

[xIGmanIx]

Do people even use copy and paste on phones?

on my work BB curve i use it all the time. for links, names, addresses etc. It useful and i noticed it before on my iphone when i didn't have it

[sushi]

Do people even use copy and paste on phones?
Good question.

Based on the vocal bunch around here, it was needed badly. Now that we have it, I wonder how many actually use it. And if they do, how often.

Personally, I have an iPod touch and have tried out cut and paste. I like the way it works so far. Seems handy. Don't know how much I will end up using it.

[MorphingDragon]

on my work BB curve i use it all the time. for links, names, addresses etc. It useful and i noticed it before on my iphone when i didn't have it

Its just that I've never needed to use it whenever I use a smart phone so :confused:

[Victor Odin]

Ah... you can't support your "All BB Curves are perfect, Apple is the devil" argument, so you bring up the tired old unsubstantiated "let's worship Steve" argument. Come on - better trolls at least try to come up with something substantial.

I don't think any device is perfect nor to I think Apple is "the devil", but I do think that the tolerance and religious propensity of iPeople are directly responsible for preventing Apple from reaching the level of excellence that they purport exist -- but in reality does not.

For example, I don't think a single Dell user would allow the company to get away with blaming the weather or the nation of China, but I believe that most Apple users bend over backwards to place the blame, somewhere ... anywhere else.

Given the level of hardware & software autonomy, and the premium price commanded for both the systems and the warranty, it is my opinion that Apple would be a far better company if more of their users were less eager to rationalize the mistakes of the company.

And ... contrary to popular belief, the mistakes have been many.

Arguably more than any single computer manufacturer in history, which is especially egregious given the small market share.

Obviously, such defects are too numerous to mention, which is why an entire Wiki exists on the subject (which I'm sure will be rationalized as a product of Satan), but most of these are factual, and far too many are the result of thermal issues arising out of the form-over-function mantra.


http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

[*LTD*]

If the angle is to be behind the competition by two or three years and at least seven years in others, then you would be correct. The Compass that Apple is touting; Nokia showed that feature before the iPhone 3G was released.

It is more than just a few lacking features. Apple has sold what, 40 million smart phones in three years? Nokia sells more S60 smartphones in a single year than Apple has in three years. You are right about game changing though; the iPhone is just a toy. Nokia is selling over 1 million 5800's a month; that will be over 12 million per year; probably closer to 15 million. This is about what Apple sells in a year. So, one product to one product, they sell about the same. Using your thought process, S60 is even more game changing and successful that the iPhone. That means that the iPhone is primitive.

Apple has shown that they can toss a phone together with a few features and people will gladly pay for it.

Are you somehow comapring the S60 to the iPhone OS? :confused: The comparison itself seems like a mismatch out the gate.

I'm not sure where you're going with this line:

So, one product to one product, they sell about the same. Using your thought process, S60 is even more game changing and successful that the iPhone. That means that the iPhone is primitive.

So . . . the whole basis of your argument revolves around sales?

The S60 is used on what, 30+ devices? From the cheap and disposable to the better models, with varying degrees of success, with Lord knows how many carriers? It's common. That's it. Cheap, disposable and plentiful, tends to sell. So does plastic lawn furniture at Wal Mart.

Symbian in general is a pretty horrible environment (horrible, as in CRAP), and not just for users, but for developers as well. It's slow, error-prone, and looks like ****. Crippled C++ support, lousy string handling/multithreading support, you name it. I'm surprised you're actually comparing Symbian (extremely limited) to the iPhone OS, where developers are able to make advanced applications that run in a superior user environment. Who cares that other POS phones have had a compass. When the compass comes to the iPhone, THEN it becomes something. When features are wrapped in dog-vomit, what good are they? You can copy and paste on your generic Symbian-powered device or whatever other dated OS of your choice, or you can copy and paste on an iPhone. It's no accident that since its introduction everything is measured against the iPhone.

Anyway, Nokia is currently a non-player when it comes to smartphone operating systems. They just sell alot of models and cheap phones. Nothing special going on, aside from the Intel deal. Nokia CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo has already admitted to The Wall Street Journal this year that the iPhone was the industry's wakeup call. But maybe you'd like to call him and convince him it isn't. :D

[dangleheart]

lanbrown: You demonstrate an uncanny ability for selective 'magnification' and 'minimization' when it suits you. I am not here to argue Apple is better than Nokia. Nokia has been in this game much longer than Apple, so there is no question about feature support and Apple taking a while to catch up.

I am specifically talking about the heat issues that have been reported on 3GS. We have heard some reports and probably a very small fraction of phones are affected. You are magnifying it as if it is there in every phone. You are probably quoting the Apple document which was an old document and that has nothing to do with the 3GS issue. What I am saying is, this kind of issues reported on the 3GS have been around with Nokia too. I just provided one example of a forum discussion on a Nokia phone. So you are minimizing any issues with Nokia and magnifying any issues with Apple. You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Victor Odin]

Put your money where you mouth is - I challenge you to find statistics proving that Apple's products had more thermal issues more than any other vendor.

What money?

To the Victor (no pun intended) go the spoils. What will I win for doing the research that you are afraid to do? If the reward is sufficient, then I accept your challenge.

If you want to do it yourself, here is a place to start:

http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Divide the number of known issues by the number of unique products that Apple has created in the last 10 years.
The percentage might surprise you ... although you would never believe it.

There are a large number of UNRESOLVED issue for a very small number of actual products ... many involving heat.

You could also go to the warranty discussion thread on this very forum. The hell with objective "customer ratings", see if people put their money where THEIR mouth is by having faith in the hardware and not buying warranty.

Do they seem comfortable?

Look at the reports of Apple users themselves at how many times they have to use said warranty, and many indicate that they would never buy an Apple product without springing for the extra 20%.

Users themselves appear to have little to no confidence in the longevity of Apple products.

MacBook users report the rapid discoloration of surface plastics, particularly in the regions of the wrist pads and areas that recieve a lot of touch. Discoloration has been reported to appear as yellows, pinks, and grays. A recent TUAW poll suggests 20% of MacBook users are affected.

Funny how the warranty on a Macbook is about 20% of the price, sometimes more.

Again - show us proof their failure rate is more than the industry. Funny how I keep reading on how they top customer satisfaction surveys.

Which ones?

Also, PC users are far less willing to blame the users and have a persecution complex than are Apple users.

Catholics also report a higher satisfaction with God than do Agnostics.

I don't think that most Apple users are anywhere in the ballpark of being objective.


Actually the point is making logical decision on which tool provides the most productivity. Aesthetics are just an added benefit.

I think you are incorrect. I think it's about making it small, and then seeing what you can get away with, while maintaining a level of failure that will be offset by an extremely expensive warranty.

If Apple makes such a superior product, then why does every Apple user insist that the warranty is absolutely "mandatory"?

The point is not exaggerating about a few problem units as if they were endemic to the entire platform and every one of its users.

Thermal issues are very endemic to Apple. They have been for a long time.

The point is certainly not trolling on a forum against a highly ranked company just because you don't like them for whatever superficial reasons you may have.

And here is when they guy who talks about "logical decisions" reverts to hyperbole and thinly-veiled religious hysteria in what he think will bolster his point to fellow kool-aid drinkers (of which he will no-doubt succeed).

I simply do not subscribe to your religion.

Embrace tolerance and stop being a religious bigot.

And if you really thought that I was a troll, how would you explain your reply?

It would seem to be inconsistent with rational decision making to engage a troll in dialog and "challenges".

It is not conducive to credibility.

[*LTD*]

What money?

To the Victor (no pun intended) go the spoils. What will I win for doing the research that you are afraid to do? If the reward is sufficient, then I accept your challenge.

If you want to do it yourself, here is a place to start:

http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Divide the number of known issues by the number of unique products that Apple has created in the last 10 years.
The percentage might surprise you ... although you would never believe it.

There are a large number of UNRESOLVED issue for a very small number of actual products ... many involving heat.

You could also go to the warranty discussion thread on this very forum. The hell with objective "customer ratings", see if people put their money where THEIR mouth is by having faith in the hardware and not buying warranty.

Do they seem comfortable?

Look at the reports of Apple users themselves at how many times they have to use said warranty, and many indicate that they would never buy an Apple product without springing for the extra 20%.

Users themselves appear to have little to no confidence in the longevity of Apple products.

MacBook users report the rapid discoloration of surface plastics, particularly in the regions of the wrist pads and areas that recieve a lot of touch. Discoloration has been reported to appear as yellows, pinks, and grays. A recent TUAW poll suggests 20% of MacBook users are affected.

Funny how the warranty on a Macbook is about 20% of the price, sometimes more.



Which ones?

Also, PC users are far less willing to blame the users and have a persecution complex than are Apple users.

Catholics also report a higher satisfaction with God than do Agnostics.

I don't think that most Apple users are anywhere in the ballpark of being objective.




I think you are incorrect. I think it's about making it small, and then seeing what you can get away with, while maintaining a level of failure that will be offset by an extremely expensive warranty.

If Apple makes such a superior product, then why does every Apple user insist that the warranty is absolutely "mandatory"?



Thermal issues are very endemic to Apple. They have been for a long time.



And here is when they guy who talks about "logical decisions" reverts to hyperbole and thinly-veiled religious hysteria in what he think will bolster his point to fellow kool-aid drinkers (of which he will no-doubt succeed).

I simply do not subscribe to your religion.

Embrace tolerance and stop being a religious bigot.

And if you really thought that I was a troll, how would you explain your reply?

It would seem to be inconsistent with rational decision making to engage a troll in dialog and "challenges".

It is not conducive to credibility.


Until Apple puts out something more thaqn a general, standard support page, the issue not widespread. The only reason the very few with this problem are getting this much attention is because it's all about Apple and the iPhone. If the iPhone starts up 1 second slower than the previous model, you'll hear about it like it's the apocalypse.

[Lanbrown]

I am specifically talking about the heat issues that have been reported on 3GS. We have heard some reports and probably a very small fraction of phones are affected. You are magnifying it as if it is there in every phone. You are probably quoting the Apple document which was an old document and that has nothing to do with the 3GS issue. What I am saying is, this kind of issues reported on the 3GS have been around with Nokia too. I just provided one example of a forum discussion on a Nokia phone. So you are minimizing any issues with Nokia and magnifying any issues with Apple. You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.

It must be an issue as Apple has programmed the phone to only allow emergency calls. This is something that no other manufacturer does. Why, because they don't have this heat issue. Sure, they all get warm/hot, but not the extent that it will cause damage like discoloring or making the phone inoperable. This is NOTHING like what you posted.

[firewood]

Pretty much every time you heard Jobs saying: "This is the FIRST phone to do this!" everyone on the Nokia forums were chuckling at you guys.

Nokia sure sells a lot of cell phones. But do Nokia smartphone buyers actually use those phones as more than phones? If so, why don't they show up proportionately in the web usage and app purchase stats? If not, why not?

Furthermore, if only a small percentage of the buyers of a given model actually use all the features on that model, the number of problem reports (heat issues or usability issues) would be proportionately smaller.

[*LTD*]

Nokia sure sells a lot of cell phones. But do Nokia smartphone buyers actually use those phones as more than phones? If so, why don't they show up proportionately in the web usage and app purchase stats? If not, why not?

Good point.

It's the first phone (iPhone) to do *this* that has an OS that doesn't suck hard and which will actually attract developers. The iPhone gets people talking. It gets them interested in using a smartphone and acquiring content for it from a single, central location. And it's all in a package that makes the whole process ridiculously easy. It's all about the OS. It's all about the interface. People actually WANT to use the iPhone's features. The implemenations of what's there are second to none. Copy and paste for instance, is implemented brilliantly. You'd think c&p actually STARTED on the iPhone, it's done so well. It's all about *how* you implement features, not features themselves. But you don't need me to tell anyone that. Just look at the response to the iPhone over the past two years. Game-changer. Big time.

Symbian is garbage. It needs a total overhaul. Nokia has all but admitted it openly. Sure, Nokia sells phones. Microsoft also sold plenty of copies of ME and Vista. Selling vast quantities of cheap phones with aging software does not impress. Nokia and the rest need to step up their game drastically. We need DRAMA from the competiton - refreshing ways of approaching the smartphone/handheld computer paradigm - not more shadowing and improvements that amount to "just enough."

[dangleheart]

LanBrown. You are mixing two issues. The document here http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2101 has always been around and not specific to 3GS. It describes the steps the device takes to regulate itself. Any device that does not do this is insanely badly designed since it is not just about heat from the operation of the phone but about surrounding external temperature increasing the internal temperature of the phone, as well. Here are the various 'governors' that exist to protect the device from heat. These are applied in sequence.

* The device stops charging
* Display dims
* Weak cellular signal
* Temperature warning screen appears with the message "iPhone needs to cool down before you can use it"

In the last state, instead of completely shutting down, the device allows you to make emergency calls which is a reasonable decision.

Until this 3GS issue is reported, there has not been wide spread reports of the last stage happening in normal operation of the phone.

If your point is that Apple put all these automatic steps in since the device is not thermally shielded properly, it does not hold water. Any responsible device maker will put in these steps to protect the device. I will be suprised if Nokia does not do this, may be they do not talk about this.

Now, 3GS comes on and there are some sporadic reports of heat issues in normal operation of the phone. It is still very small % similar to the Nokia report I quoted.

So, let us not confuse the two issues and come to the wrong conclusions.

If there are heat issues specific to 3GS that are due to poor thermal design, I will grant that to you. We do not know enough information about this to come to any conclusion. Let us wait and see.

[DudeAlmighty]

Nokia doesn't currently sell a phone comparable with the 3GS.

Symbian OS is dead.

People want a phone that works like a computer. Not a computer that works like a phone.


This whole thing is based off of 2? pictures of a miscolored white iphone 3GS.
The pictures may or may not be real, they may or may not be heat related.

I'm baffled to read of this single incident in every mayor media outlet with this few confirmed cases of an actual problem and not a simple manufacture defect of a single or handful of devices.


The Pre which consists of alot of the same parts and technology have had reports of heat issues which might be interpreted as there being an actual problem. However there is no indication yet that the mayority of the iPhone 3GSs has this kind of problem.

[DudeAlmighty]

Victor Odin.. you speak of big numbers but yet you haven't supplied a single number to support your argument. You seem keen on alarming the community, anyone, that Apple have an issue with heat that is greater then any other electronics company.

Either you are too lazy to actually put forth the numbers or you are afraid that they will be teared apart. You don't educate anyone by telling them; "There are a large number of UNRESOLVED issue for a very small number of actual products ... many involving heat.". You instigate but prove nothing.

[*LTD*]

Nokia doesn't currently sell a phone comparable with the 3GS.

Symbian OS is dead.

People want a phone that works like a computer. Not a computer that works like a phone.


This whole thing is based off of 2? pictures of a miscolored white iphone 3GS.
The pictures may or may not be real, they may or may not be heat related.

I'm baffled to read of this single incident in every mayor media outlet with this few confirmed cases of an actual problem and not a simple manufacture defect of a single or handful of devices.


The Pre which consists of alot of the same parts and technology have had reports of heat issues which might be interpreted as there being an actual problem. However there is no indication yet that the mayority of the iPhone 3GSs has this kind of problem.

It's because it's the iPhone (and to a lesser degree, Apple in general.) Consumers expect a great deal from Apple because Apple has GIVEN them reason to. Apple is synonymous with quality and innovation in the public consciousness, and this goes back for years. Reputation is EVERYTHING.

The iPhone has been under the microscope since day 1. Even the slightest issue will generate hits because iPhone news is what's in. And as long as Apple takes its product seriously (you can bet on that), this situation won't change anytime soon. I'm being facetious when I say this, but you can have every Motorola phone for 100 miles catch fire and it *still* wouldn't be as big as so much as a single iPhone that may exhibit heat issues.

The media and the public at large are in an iPhone frenzy (which isn't surprising to begin with), and although the situation will normalize as time goes by, the anticipation and sense of excitement won't diminish entirely. The iPod has been at the forefront of tech news since its introduction in 2001. I expect the iPhone to achieve the same for years to come.

[Ubuntu]

meh put your hand on an apple tv...that thing is burning all the time...

this isnt news....

Well, actually, it is. This is an iPhone we are talking about, not an Apple TV.

Two different products.

[*LTD*]

Well, actually, it is. This is an iPhone we are talking about, not an Apple TV.

Two different products.

Lots of devices are hot as per their normal operating state.

I've got a nice little Western Digital HD TV Media Player, which is hot even when turned off. It's noticeably hot. Nothing to worry about, though, it's just the nature of the beast.

Some external hard drives, even when not doing any work, still get hot when under power.

I highly doubt iPhones are noticeably hot while idle or not under a full load. And it seems Apple was unable to duplicate this problem, which explains why they simply updated a support page to remind everyone (to read th manual) and nothing else.

[iSamurai]

you know if Apple had stuck with the metal case they wouldn't have this problem...

[*LTD*]

you know if Apple had stuck with the metal case they wouldn't have this problem...

What problem?

[Lanbrown]

Nokia sure sells a lot of cell phones. But do Nokia smartphone buyers actually use those phones as more than phones? If so, why don't they show up proportionately in the web usage and app purchase stats? If not, why not?

Actually they do, you just haven't bothered to look for it.
http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2009/05/27/

how about this:
On July 4th, Symbian had nearly 44% of total mobile traffic worldwide. Hint, they were in the #1 slot.

As for apps, there are Java based apps and native apps. There are plenty of apps for S60. Is there a million native apps; no, but they are a higher quality app. Look at the apps avialable for the iPhone, most are utterly useless. If one adds in the java apps, then it would be over a million.

Unlike Apple, the other platforms are not locked to a single source for apps and the apps are not censored. I can buy from any source I want, an app store, the carriers page, the developers page, etc.

So what is your source for the misinformation about apps and data usage?


Furthermore, if only a small percentage of the buyers of a given model actually use all the features on that model, the number of problem reports (heat issues or usability issues) would be proportionately smaller.

I can do more on my phone concurrently than the iPhone can sequentially. I can take the phone I had in 2007 and it still outperforms the latest iPhone.

LanBrown. You are mixing two issues. The document here http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2101 has always been around and not specific to 3GS. It describes the steps the device takes to regulate itself. Any device that does not do this is insanely badly designed since it is not just about heat from the operation of the phone but about surrounding external temperature increasing the internal temperature of the phone, as well. Here are the various 'governors' that exist to protect the device from heat. These are applied in sequence.

* The device stops charging
* Display dims
* Weak cellular signal
* Temperature warning screen appears with the message "iPhone needs to cool down before you can use it"

In the last state, instead of completely shutting down, the device allows you to make emergency calls which is a reasonable decision.

Until this 3GS issue is reported, there has not been wide spread reports of the last stage happening in normal operation of the phone.

If your point is that Apple put all these automatic steps in since the device is not thermally shielded properly, it does not hold water. Any responsible device maker will put in these steps to protect the device. I will be suprised if Nokia does not do this, may be they do not talk about this.

Now, 3GS comes on and there are some sporadic reports of heat issues in normal operation of the phone. It is still very small % similar to the Nokia report I quoted.

So, let us not confuse the two issues and come to the wrong conclusions.

If there are heat issues specific to 3GS that are due to poor thermal design, I will grant that to you. We do not know enough information about this to come to any conclusion. Let us wait and see.

I can use my phone and get it hot and it WILL NOT shutdown and I can still continue to use it. That is a flaw in the iPhone. Show me where Nokia, RIM, Motorola, Sony-Ericcson, Samsung, etc. have a document like Apple does for the iPhone. You won't find one becuase they don't have these issues and thus a document wasn't needed.

How about a different way; so why does the iPhone need to be regulated and other phones do not?

[xIGmanIx]

Microsoft also sold plenty of copies of ME and Vista.

enough with the vista smear campaign, if you have used it you know it had its issues when vendors threw up collectively with their drivers and now its a rock solid and secure OS, get over it already.

[*LTD*]

Actually they do, you just haven't bothered to look for it.
http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2009/05/27/

Look at the apps avialable for the iPhone, most are utterly useless. If one

Try using an iPhone and actually looking around on the App Store before:

a) Lying

b) Unknowginly making an ignorant comment

As for your other comment:

How about a different way; so why does the iPhone need to be regulated and other phones do not?


Maybe they should, before someone gets seriously hurt.

http://www.google.com/search?q=nokia+overheating&hl=en&safe=off&start=20&sa=N

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=blackberry+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=palm+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=HTC+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=



enough with the vista smear campaign, if you have used it you know it had its issues when vendors threw up collectively with their drivers and now its a rock solid and secure OS, get over it already.

You know an OS sucks hard when its manufacturer tries its best to forget it ever existed.

Windows sufferers have been getting the shaft from MS since 2001. How a company with that much R&D cash can't get a decent OS out the door is beyond me. But judging by the derivative, uninspiring messes that MS has rolled out since then, it comes as no surprise. They're a corporate/enterprise software vendor masquerading as a home/consumer vendor, and it shows.

[Mike Teezie]

Weird, my friend and I were just talking today about how much hotter our 3Gs phones run than our 2G phones.

Both of ours are black 32 giggers, we'll see whose blows up first. :rolleyes:

[dangleheart]

I can use my phone and get it hot and it WILL NOT shutdown and I can still continue to use it. That is a flaw in the iPhone. Show me where Nokia, RIM, Motorola, Sony-Ericcson, Samsung, etc. have a document like Apple does for the iPhone. You won't find one becuase they don't have these issues and thus a document wasn't needed.

How about a different way; so why does the iPhone need to be regulated and other phones do not?

This is getting to be humorous: Heat is an enemy of electronics. If Nokia allows a certain heat build up ( either internal or external causes ) and not shut down, it will damage the components.
You are actually arguing for idiosy on the part of Nokia.

But it looks like Nokia knows how to properly design hardware in a similar vein to Apple. But they do not allow making emergency calls. They simply shutdown the device.

See this discussion: http://discussions.nokiausa.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&message.id=110689

And from Nokia user's guide

Always try to keep the battery between 15°C and
25°C (59°F and 77°F). Extreme temperatures reduce
the capacity and lifetime of the battery. A device
with a hot or cold battery may not work
temporarily. Battery performance is particularly
limited in temperatures well below freezing.

[xIGmanIx]

You know an OS sucks hard when its manufacturer tries its best to forget it ever existed.



ME? yes, Vista? no. and at the end of the day they are still 85-90% of the market share, so who cares what we think. Companies are not lining up to roll out OS X in their enterprises, so until they do, Mac OS will be a niche OS.

[LagunaSol]

enough with the vista smear campaign, if you have used it you know it had its issues when vendors threw up collectively with their drivers and now its a rock solid and secure OS, get over it already.

Which is why MS is scrambling to get 7 out the door and put Vista behind them?

Companies are not lining up to roll out OS X in their enterprises, so until they do, Mac OS will be a niche OS.

And I'm hoping it stays that way, thanks. I'm enjoying malware-free computing.

Enterprise is so yesteryear...

[*LTD*]

And I'm hoping it stays that way, thanks. I'm enjoying malware-free computing.

Enterprise is so yesteryear...

No reason at all for OS X to get into the corporate world any more than it's there now. The consumer market is lucrative, especially the Premium end where OS X flourishes. Apple has its specific corporate customers already.

The iPhone, however, is an entirely different device from an enterprise perspecive. Should be interesting to see how far it will go in this area.

[xIGmanIx]

Which is why MS is scrambling to get 7 out the door and put Vista behind them?



And I'm hoping it stays that way, thanks. I'm enjoying malware-free computing.

Enterprise is so yesteryear...

small companies = backbone of the US economy
small companies and large ones = Microsoft

Not taking sides, just saying thats the way it is. If apple wants to increase their market share thats what they have to attack.

[Lanbrown]

Try using an iPhone and actually looking around on the App Store before:

a) Lying

b) Unknowginly making an ignorant comment

As for your other comment:

How about a different way; so why does the iPhone need to be regulated and other phones do not?


Maybe they should, before someone gets seriously hurt.

http://www.google.com/search?q=nokia+overheating&hl=en&safe=off&start=20&sa=N

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=blackberry+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=palm+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=HTC+overheating&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I have used an iPhone and think of it as a toy. There are too many limitations in it that have been STANDARD in other phones for YEARS. Apple also controls what applications can be sold and where you can buy them.

So where is Java and Flash on the iPhone? Apple has decided that you don't need it.

The Nokia links show a battery recall. Apple has never had a battery recall, have they? Of course not. There are not many companies that make batteries; so companies like Apple, Nokia, Dell, Palm, etc. all rely on a third-party to produce them.

[Lanbrown]

This is getting to be humorous: Heat is an enemy of electronics. If Nokia allows a certain heat build up ( either internal or external causes ) and not shut down, it will damage the components.
You are actually arguing for idiosy on the part of Nokia.

But it looks like Nokia knows how to properly design hardware in a similar vein to Apple. But they do not allow making emergency calls. They simply shutdown the device.

See this discussion: http://discussions.nokiausa.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&message.id=110689

And from Nokia user's guide

Always try to keep the battery between 15°C and
25°C (59°F and 77°F). Extreme temperatures reduce
the capacity and lifetime of the battery. A device
with a hot or cold battery may not work
temporarily. Battery performance is particularly
limited in temperatures well below freezing.

You have provided nothing. Apple has built-in that the phone will not work. I can heavily use mine and NEVER had an issue for hours and hours at a time. I can be sending a receiving large amounts of data, be working on a document, on the phone using BT, WLAN active, GPS active, email, have a slide show document open, have a movie playing and all of this over the course of a few hours and the phone is fine; this isn't using one app at a time either, they are ALL open concurrently. No overheating, no shutting down; just normal operation. That is what my phone deals with on a daily basis. Seems that the iPhone has an issue with doing only one or two things according the document Apple has published.

Nokia has deemed it uneccessary to put the restrictions in that Apple has; and for a very good reason; it is not needed.

[dangleheart]

Now wait a second Lanbrown, I grant that whatever you say about Nokia is true. On the other hand, how many incidents of the temperature warning indication that had been reported with 2G and 3G phones that you know off? ( not 3GS, it is too new ). And how does that compare to Nokia devices shutting down due to heat? I bet the numbers are all noise in both cases.

Nokia clearly says that IF the battery temperature goes up beyond a certain limit, they WILL temporarily shutdown the device until it cools down. Whether it happened to you or not is immaterial. Nokia has built in that protection in their phones. So has Apple. That IS a wise hardware design on the part of both Apple and Nokia. Apple goes one step further and allow you to operate the device at minimal levels. So I do not understand how in the face of what they say in the Nokia user document you can claim that 'Nokia has not put in any restrictions'. It is so openly there in the Nokia User guide.

[MH01]

No reason at all for OS X to get into the corporate world any more than it's there now. The consumer market is lucrative, especially the Premium end where OS X flourishes. Apple has its specific corporate customers already.

The iPhone, however, is an entirely different device from an enterprise perspecive. Should be interesting to see how far it will go in this area.

Do you actually find any fault with the iphone? Or is this the perfect device for you? From reading the comments on this thread I would swear you work in the iphone marketing division....

Yeah its a great device but far from perfect.

Mate, also get your facts straight, there is much much more $$$$$ in the corporate world then consumer. The problem is that OS X just does not deliver in the corporate world. Apple would love to crack the corporate world.

Who are these corporate customers your speak of, show me a major corporation in the world that runs OS X as their primary OS.

[firewood]

Actually they do,
...
how about this:
On July 4th, Symbian had nearly 44% of total mobile traffic worldwide.
...
So what is your source for the misinformation about apps and data usage?


That very same statistic is the source of my "misinformation".

Nokia has sold, what, 100X more phones total? And over 5X more smartphones? Then why is that 44% of traffic less than 2X greater than Apple's share? Why not 5X or 100X greater mobile traffic, proportionate with Nokia's unit sales?

Why not?

As an app developer, I would like to see the statistics that say a generic app for Nokia's phones (which requires a lot more lines of code and a lot more costs to certify for Nokia's entire product line), is likely to sell at least 5X more units to those 5X to 100X more Nokia customers compared to the same type of app developed for the iTunes App store.

Show me those app sales stats.

[bruinsrme]

Which is why MS is scrambling to get 7 out the door and put Vista behind them?



And I'm hoping it stays that way, thanks. I'm enjoying malware-free computing.

Enterprise is so yesteryear...
Scrambling?
Vista was release November 2006 and to the consumer December.
Its 3 years old
Windows 95
Windows 98
Xp 2001
Vista 2006
Win 7 2009
XP had a longer life but it seems MS has 3 year OS

[DudeAlmighty]

You have provided nothing. Apple has built-in that the phone will not work. I can heavily use mine and NEVER had an issue for hours and hours at a time.

Lanbrown what phone are you even comparing the 3GS to?? and why do you cosistantly decide not to understand points made in this thread and keep up the same argument for no appearant reason?

I had a Nokia 8210 8 years ago.. it never overheated either.

[MacRumorUser]

The iPhone's primary purpose is certainly not be used as a dash-mounted GPS navigation device. Or would you say that any smartphone that cannot be used as a dash-mounted navigation device is not a viable product?

Maybe you should tell TomTom :rolleyes:

http://iphone.tomtom.com/

[xIGmanIx]

The iPhone's primary purpose is certainly not be used as a dash-mounted GPS navigation device. Or would you say that any smartphone that cannot be used as a dash-mounted navigation device is not a viable product?

Then if that is the case, they shouldn't advertise or allow applications to leverage existing hardware to execute those type of processes. Dont make the application available and then make excuses when it doesn't operate to everyone's expectations.

[Draft]

What I don't understand is why there is no mention of the iPhone 3G? Mine heats up like an oven with very light use. This occurred only after the iPhone OS 3.0 upgrade, which leads me to believe this is a *software* issue.

The other point of concern is that Apple is *blaming* the end user for this overheating issue. This is appalling to say the least...

[DudeAlmighty]

The other point of concern is that Apple is *blaming* the end user for this overheating issue. This is appalling to say the least...

You're wrong, Apple haven't made an official statement what's to blame. The haters are just pointing to an updated service document and ignoring the fact that people with defects will get replacements.

[budidi]

I have used an iPhone and think of it as a toy. There are too many limitations in it that have been STANDARD in other phones for YEARS. Apple also controls what applications can be sold and where you can buy them.

So where is Java and Flash on the iPhone? Apple has decided that you don't need it.

The Nokia links show a battery recall. Apple has never had a battery recall, have they? Of course not. There are not many companies that make batteries; so companies like Apple, Nokia, Dell, Palm, etc. all rely on a third-party to produce them.

what limitations?
running apps in background? in the iphone you shut down one app and start another faster than other phones..so there's no problem for me in that point
only 3megapixel camera? i have a 12mpixel fuji and only use 6m..the important is the lens and not the mega-pixel in it.
i have a nokia n73. slow as hell. once you put media and apps in it....it sllooowwss down. symbian sucks. it shuts down and overheat as well.
app store? fantastic. theres nothing to say.

so what are the good points to nokia?
slow processor?
less ram?
slow and crappy OS.
ok..better camera. but once you take a photo it takes years to open the pic!!! and zoom-in???? so slllooowwwww
the browser??? dont compare nokia browser to safari in the iphone..
JAVA and FLASH? you buy a phone because it runs JAVA and FLASH??
better apps??? i dont think so.

now.. Sony Ericsson its other story. and even them are slower than th iphone

[*LTD*]

Do you actually find any fault with the iphone?

Not really. It could be a bit faster I suppose. And the OS 3.0 update has broken all the speed-dialing apps (for now.) It now takes an extra touch to call out. In fact, I would have liked something like the "Smart Dial" app from Apple as a standard feature, but I've found a workaround in the meantime that I might actually stick with. Other than that, there's really nothing wrong with it and it certainly deserves all the praise it's been getting.

iPhone marketing division? Nope. I just happen to agree with the majority opinion about the iPhone.

[TroyBoy30]

You're wrong, Apple haven't made an official statement what's to blame. The haters are just pointing to an updated service document and ignoring the fact that people with defects will get replacements.

Apple blames hot iPhones on the weather, others find oleophobic screen to be fleeting?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/04/apple-blames-hot-iphones-on-the-weather-others-find-oleophobic/

[DudeAlmighty]

Apple blames hot iPhones on the weather, others find oleophobic screen to be fleeting?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/04/apple-blames-hot-iphones-on-the-weather-others-find-oleophobic/

again: "We haven't heard many other reports of a similar nature"

[DudeAlmighty]

again: "We haven't heard many other reports of a similar nature"

Also I can't find any source where apple has directly blamed these problems on the weather. All they have done is list that weather can be a factor if you find your phone is becoming overheated. I have yet to hear about any user who haven't been able to return their phone if it becomes way hotter then it should or have gotten full support. Until there are more facts about this matter it's ignorant to draw conclusions.

[alexacker]

Nokia/Symbian has sold hundreds of millions of handsets. Where is Flash and Java on the iPhone? I have both on my phone. I have had copy and paste for years, MMS for years, been able to tether (legally) for years, have had a browser for years, have had HTML email for years, have had GPS with true navigation for years, SIP VoIP for years (built-in too), FM Radio for years, being able to edit Office documents for years (built-in too), WLAN for years (all features can be used over WLAN or the mobile network), Voice recorder, voice commands for years, video recording for years, being able to watch and play music/videos for years, being able to select any sound file as a ringtone for years (no hacks or addition ringtone purchase required) and the list can go on and on. Just as Apple releases video recording, you have people like Samsung releasing the Omnia HD which can record in 720P. When the original iPhone was released; 3G phone were available for a few years. When Apple released iPhone 3G, 7.2Mbps phones have been available as well. Want to take a guess about LTE, Apple will be about two-years behind the rest of the major players.

There is no need for anyone to take potshots at the iPhone; it's features do that. What Apple considers "new" is old to the rest of the civilized world.

Care to show me a phone that has heat issues like the iPhone, one that will only let you make emergency calls when it gets hot?

Hate to break the news to you, but Apple has to license technology from companies like Nokia. Nokia has a lot of IP when it comes to GSM, WCDMA and LTE.

So, why don't you be an active poster in the Symbian forums and let us be... why flame?

[*LTD*]

Also I can't find any source where apple has directly blamed these problems on the weather. All they have done is list that weather can be a factor if you find your phone is becoming overheated. I have yet to hear about any user who haven't been able to return their phone if it becomes way hotter then it should or have gotten full support. Until there are more facts about this matter it's ignorant to draw conclusions.

1 million+ iPhone 3GSes sold by now and there is zero evidence of a mass recall or of people lining up to return them a la Blackberry Storm.

Again, it's the natural Apple-related FUD that comes as a by-product of media and consumer frenzy. Apple products get all the glory and attention in our generation (that is, from Steve Jobs' return to Apple in the late 90s to the present day), and as a result the company's products are under a microscope all the time. The slightest hiccup and it's all over the news, blogosphere, message boards.

Palm Pres and screen cracking?? Quickly forgotten. Are people even talking about the Pre? All the buzz lasted about a week. But the iPhone craze continues, and will carry over to the iPod Touch craze that is about to ramp up in July when new models are introduced.

[Lanbrown]

Lanbrown what phone are you even comparing the 3GS to?? and why do you cosistantly decide not to understand points made in this thread and keep up the same argument for no appearant reason?

I had a Nokia 8210 8 years ago.. it never overheated either.

It doesn't matter what the phone is. The iPhone was outdated when it was released. 3G phones were available since 2005!!!!!!!

MMS is part of the GSM release '97. Care to guess what the '97 represents? Apple couldn't even figure out how to implement technology that was a decade old and implemented by every other manufacturer.

The iPhone 3G was outdated when it arrived. 7.2Mbps HSDPA phones were available before the iPhone 3G even hit the shelves.

The iPhone 3GS is still outdated and any "new" feature that they introduced with it, has been on other phone for at a year!!!!!!!

What points? They were Apple to Oranges comparisons. Apple has issued an advisory!!!!!!!! If my phone doesn't overheat and it has twice the CPU cores, plus two DSP's, then why does the iPhone have an issue? The answer, it is a poorly designed product. The iPhone 3G was also under-clocked; I wonder why. The smaller manufacturing process for the CPU has done little to resolve the advisory.

1 million+ iPhone 3GSes sold by now and there is zero evidence of a mass recall or of people lining up to return them a la Blackberry Storm.

Apple and a recall does not happen very fast; that goes for pretty much any company.

So, why don't you be an active poster in the Symbian forums and let us be... why flame?


How is it a flame when it is true? If the truth hurts, then so be it. I am an active poster, but you have the iPhonies coming over there promoting their wonderful outdated technology they purchased and drank the Kool-Aid on.

what limitations?
running apps in background? in the iphone you shut down one app and start another faster than other phones..so there's no problem for me in that point
only 3megapixel camera? i have a 12mpixel fuji and only use 6m..the important is the lens and not the mega-pixel in it.
i have a nokia n73. slow as hell. once you put media and apps in it....it sllooowwss down. symbian sucks. it shuts down and overheat as well.
app store? fantastic. theres nothing to say.

so what are the good points to nokia?
slow processor?
less ram?
slow and crappy OS.
ok..better camera. but once you take a photo it takes years to open the pic!!! and zoom-in???? so slllooowwwww
the browser??? dont compare nokia browser to safari in the iphone..
JAVA and FLASH? you buy a phone because it runs JAVA and FLASH??
better apps??? i dont think so.

now.. Sony Ericsson its other story. and even them are slower than th iphone

I guess no multi-tasking isn't a drawback. Multi-tasking has been around for how long and the iPhone doesn't support it. That sounds "crappy" to me.

Maybe in 4.0 Apple will invent multi-tasking. Nokia uses a processor with a slower main clock, but it makes up for it as it has other cores to handle other functions. Most of their phones have a DSP and an ARM core just for GSM base-band functions. So when you are sending/receiving or on the phone, the main CPU has noting to do with it. In the iPhone it has to handle that communication. Then the main CPU also has a dedicated DSP for itself as well plus a GPU.

Try going to a site that has Java on your phone and how well does that work for you? Java also opens up the use of even more apps.

Taking a pic and zooming on my phone is fast. I have been able to record videos for years now. Something "new" to the iPhone crowd. Face it, the iPhone has a lackluster feature set.

How can you not compare the Nokia browser to the iPhone; they are both based of KHTML; look at the User Agent strings.

Less RAM. How much did the iPhone and Iphone 3G have?

[DudeAlmighty]

It doesn't matter what the phone is. The iPhone was outdated when it was released. 3G phones were available since 2005!!!!!!!

MMS is part of the GSM release '97. Care to guess what the '97 represents? Apple couldn't even figure out how to implement technology that was a decade old and implemented by every other manufacturer.

The iPhone 3G was outdated when it arrived. 7.2Mbps HSDPA phones were available before the iPhone 3G even hit the shelves.

The iPhone 3GS is still outdated and any "new" feature that they introduced with it, has been on other phone for at a year!!!!!!!

What points? They were Apple to Oranges comparisons. Apple has issued an advisory!!!!!!!! If my phone doesn't overheat and it has twice the CPU cores, plus two DSP's, then why does the iPhone have an issue? The answer, it is a poorly designed product. The iPhone 3G was also under-clocked; I wonder why. The smaller manufacturing process for the CPU has done little to resolve the advisory.



Apple and a recall does not happen very fast; that goes for pretty much any company.

so you still avoid to answer any questions and put any relevance behind your words.

[Lanbrown]

so you still avoid to answer any questions and put any relevance behind your words.

Nope, you are just too blind to see then real truth. The iPhone is nothing magical and has old technology to it. Apple is the one that has issued an advisory.

What have you shown in this thread? Nada

Now wait a second Lanbrown, I grant that whatever you say about Nokia is true. On the other hand, how many incidents of the temperature warning indication that had been reported with 2G and 3G phones that you know off? ( not 3GS, it is too new ). And how does that compare to Nokia devices shutting down due to heat? I bet the numbers are all noise in both cases.

Nokia clearly says that IF the battery temperature goes up beyond a certain limit, they WILL temporarily shutdown the device until it cools down. Whether it happened to you or not is immaterial. Nokia has built in that protection in their phones. So has Apple. That IS a wise hardware design on the part of both Apple and Nokia. Apple goes one step further and allow you to operate the device at minimal levels. So I do not understand how in the face of what they say in the Nokia user document you can claim that 'Nokia has not put in any restrictions'. It is so openly there in the Nokia User guide.

We are talking about phones, not the battery. The iPhone is shutting down when hot, not because of the battery.

That very same statistic is the source of my "misinformation".

Nokia has sold, what, 100X more phones total? And over 5X more smartphones? Then why is that 44% of traffic less than 2X greater than Apple's share? Why not 5X or 100X greater mobile traffic, proportionate with Nokia's unit sales?

Why not?

As an app developer, I would like to see the statistics that say a generic app for Nokia's phones (which requires a lot more lines of code and a lot more costs to certify for Nokia's entire product line), is likely to sell at least 5X more units to those 5X to 100X more Nokia customers compared to the same type of app developed for the iTunes App store.

Show me those app sales stats.

You don't understand anything but you own little world. In many countries, the price of a data plan is quite high. So people use their data much more sparingly because of it. Most of the iPhones sold are in the US where an unlimited data plan is not all that expensive. If you go by OS, the iPod Touch is included. So not a true comparison at all as you have a non-phone device being included. On a worldwide scale, Symbian users generate more traffic.

As for app stores for other platforms. There are many places to buy apps, so one cannot just go and get numbers. You can buy/download from the developers site, sites like Handango, sourceforge, versiontracker, forums, manufacturer, carriers, etc. Apple has pulled apps from their store because they don't like the app. Apple is policing what is available rather than letting the consumer decide. This is not an issue for other platforms as you are not locked to a single source. Most of the apps in the Apple store are low grade apps or games. Just recently did ooice apps become available; something I have used for many years. I also didn't have to pat for it, it was included, same for a GPS app.

You can self-sign apps, so your point about certifying is totally inaccurate. Even unsigned apps can be installed; the only time an app needs to be signed is when it wants to get to certain parts of the API.

More lines of code is not necessarily a bad thing. It means that someone needs to have some programming knowledge and that means better quality apps; than someone that knows hardly anything and making an app available.

[DudeAlmighty]

Nope, you are just too blind to see then real truth. The iPhone is nothing magical and has old technology to it. Apple is the one that has issued an advisory.



We are talking about phones, not the battery. The iPhone is shutting down when hot, not because of the battery.

Funny. I'm nor blind nor do I have trouble seeing any kind of "truth". You assume way too much and can't answer a simple question like what phone you are using?


You are making irrelevant statements and draw conclusions about the phone which are not true but you are entitled to your opinions, You just do not come off as very believable when you can't even tell what your comparrison is.

[*LTD*]

And here we go.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=8020630&posted=1#post8020630

[Vulpinemac]

Do we really know the iPhone is overheating? How many readers here have actually seen that screen for themselves?

As for the one commenter saying his iPhone 3G overheats after installing OS 3.0, why doesn't mine? I use it pretty heavily for a lot of thing, including an ebook reader, twitter, email, etc., etc... I'll grant mine is anecdotal, but apparently that one is too; assuming it's true.

As for the discolored white housings--anyone read where the discoloration is dye off the third-party protective coverings people are putting them in? Dyed leather, especially if it gets damp (say, somebody sweating in hot weather?) may bleed some of that dye onto whatever it holds. A red case would leave a pink stain--a brown case? Hmmm... Ok, so it 'looks' burnt, but is it really? Maybe not.

My opinion--big deal out of nothing. Somebody trying to damage Apple's reputation because it has become a dominant figure in the smart phone market and elsewhere.

[dangleheart]

We are talking about phones, not the battery. The iPhone is shutting down when hot, not because of the battery.


Now you are just thrashing. I am done.

[Bubba Satori]

It's Bush's fault. :D

[Pika]

It's Bush's fault. :D

No... i believe it's the fault of a pink silicon case like this one:

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/2/0/6/0/9/5/webimg/278664761_o.jpg

[jsfesq]

We have heard of a number of instances in which the iPhone 3GS gets extremely hot, permanently discolors, and becomes uncomfortable to hold against the user's skin. There are also numerous consumer complaints regarding premature battery failure due to excessive heat.

If you have experienced these problems, contact us at the email address below or visit us at : http://www.nfcounsel.com/currentinvestigations/iphone3gsoverheats.html

Jeffrey S. Feinberg, Esq.

Nackman & Feinberg LLP
Attorneys at Law
110 Wall Street
11th Floor
New York, New York 10005

ph. 212.748.4800
fax 646.417.7890
email to: jfeinberg@nfcounsel.com

[LagunaSol]

Nackman & Feinberg LLP
Attorneys at Law
110 Wall Street
11th Floor
New York, New York 10005

I guess ambulance chasing has become passé... :rolleyes:

[kurosov]

I guess ambulance chasing has become passé... :rolleyes:

Yep, seems the parasites have started to show up.

I'd go on that site and mention i have no problems at all with my white 3gs bt then they'd probably use my submission in a general x complaints statistic.

[alexacker]

It doesn't matter what the phone is. The iPhone was outdated when it was released. 3G phones were available since 2005!!!!!!!

MMS is part of the GSM release '97. Care to guess what the '97 represents? Apple couldn't even figure out how to implement technology that was a decade old and implemented by every other manufacturer.

The iPhone 3G was outdated when it arrived. 7.2Mbps HSDPA phones were available before the iPhone 3G even hit the shelves.

The iPhone 3GS is still outdated and any "new" feature that they introduced with it, has been on other phone for at a year!!!!!!!

What points? They were Apple to Oranges comparisons. Apple has issued an advisory!!!!!!!! If my phone doesn't overheat and it has twice the CPU cores, plus two DSP's, then why does the iPhone have an issue? The answer, it is a poorly designed product. The iPhone 3G was also under-clocked; I wonder why. The smaller manufacturing process for the CPU has done little to resolve the advisory.



Apple and a recall does not happen very fast; that goes for pretty much any company.




How is it a flame when it is true? If the truth hurts, then so be it. I am an active poster, but you have the iPhonies coming over there promoting their wonderful outdated technology they purchased and drank the Kool-Aid on.



I guess no multi-tasking isn't a drawback. Multi-tasking has been around for how long and the iPhone doesn't support it. That sounds "crappy" to me.

Maybe in 4.0 Apple will invent multi-tasking. Nokia uses a processor with a slower main clock, but it makes up for it as it has other cores to handle other functions. Most of their phones have a DSP and an ARM core just for GSM base-band functions. So when you are sending/receiving or on the phone, the main CPU has noting to do with it. In the iPhone it has to handle that communication. Then the main CPU also has a dedicated DSP for itself as well plus a GPU.

Try going to a site that has Java on your phone and how well does that work for you? Java also opens up the use of even more apps.

Taking a pic and zooming on my phone is fast. I have been able to record videos for years now. Something "new" to the iPhone crowd. Face it, the iPhone has a lackluster feature set.

How can you not compare the Nokia browser to the iPhone; they are both based of KHTML; look at the User Agent strings.

Less RAM. How much did the iPhone and Iphone 3G have?

What's your agenda here? Or, do you just have no life for such long, winded responses? And, why are so hostile? You're posting at MACRUMORS not NOKIARUMORS. Don't you think people here are Apple brand ambassadors?

[alexacker]

We have heard of a number of instances in which the iPhone 3GS gets extremely hot, permanently discolors, and becomes uncomfortable to hold against the user's skin. There are also numerous consumer complaints regarding premature battery failure due to excessive heat.

If you have experienced these problems, contact us at the email address below or visit us at : http://www.nfcounsel.com/currentinvestigations/iphone3gsoverheats.html

Jeffrey S. Feinberg, Esq.

Nackman & Feinberg LLP
Attorneys at Law
110 Wall Street
11th Floor
New York, New York 10005

ph. 212.748.4800
fax 646.417.7890
email to: jfeinberg@nfcounsel.com

How about this: if you have a problem, exchange it with Apple. There, problem solved.

I guess lawyers have resulted to trolling blogs for greedy customers.

[ripkord]

Glad I still have my 3G

[yiqinuk]

Nobody is trying to damage Apple's reputation. As a handset chip design engineer myslef, this overheating issue is not a surprise at all. Furthermore, overheating problem is for every single 3G handset Manufactures. It is mainly cause by high data rate services the 3G phone supported. I do not believe overheating problem is a isolated cases. I am sure you will see more and more coming out. Nokia and some other major handset manufactures are trying hard to overcome the problem created by the low efficiency PA chip. (in 2G or GSM low data rate services, PA chip running in a much higher efficiency mode). Due to the bandwidth it supported, PA has to back down to a very inefficient mode in order to cope with quality of the signal.
The over heating problem is there. Apple should face it and do not blame weather or something else.

[*LTD*]

Nobody is trying to damage Apple's reputation. As a handset chip design engineer myslef, this overheating issue is not a surprise at all. Furthermore, overheating problem is for every single 3G handset Manufactures. It is mainly cause by high data rate services the 3G phone supported. I do not believe overheating problem is a isolated cases. I am sure you will see more and more coming out. Nokia and some other major handset manufactures are trying hard to overcome the problem created by the low efficiency PA chip. (in 2G or GSM low data rate services, PA chip running in a much higher efficiency mode). Due to the bandwidth it supported, PA has to back down to a very inefficient mode in order to cope with quality of the signal.
The over heating problem is there. Apple should face it and do not blame weather or something else.

There is a substantial difference between a phone that normally runs warm or even hot under heavy load, and a phone that is so hot that it is rendered unusable or becomes physically damaged in some way. "Overheating" means that the device in question is undergoing the kind of stress or pressure that is beyond its tolerances, resulting in damage or rendering the unit inoperative. That certainly isn't normal. As a "handset chip designer" I expect you can distinguish between the two.

Apple doesn't need to face what is already under control or what doesn't exist with their product in the first place. There haven't been any widespread reports of iPhone 3Gs or 3GSes that have been damaged or otherwise rendered unusable due to extreme heat. Not yet, at least.

[macintoshtoffy]

There is a substantial difference between a phone that normally runs warm or even hot under heavy load, and a phone that is so hot that it is rendered unusable or becomes physically damaged in some way. "Overheating" means that the device in question is undergoing the kind of stress or pressure that is beyond its tolerances, resulting in damage or rendering the unit inoperative. That certainly isn't normal. As a "handset chip designer" I expect you can distinguish between the two.

Apple doesn't need to face what is already under control or what doesn't exist with their product in the first place. There haven't been any widespread reports of iPhone 3Gs or 3GSes that have been damaged or otherwise rendered unusable due to extreme heat. Not yet, at least.

I've said this about their laptops and desktops - they need to ruthlessly test their hardware, maxing their hardware out at peak stress for hours on end - putting them through processor loads that the average person would never put their computer under.

This stupid thin fetish is screwing up their hardware; their first focus should be on reliability instead of listening to idiots on websites like this having double orgasms over the fact that its less than 1inch or how the fact that it is 0.0009 pounds lighter is so important.

Reliability should be the first and last measure of any device; then it is up to the designer to put a case around it - and when whiners on here complain about the fact that it is 0.000001 pounds heavier, Apple should simply state that they value reliability above pandering to the noisy whiners of the world.

[numediaman]

Apple doesn't need to face what is already under control or what doesn't exist with their product in the first place. There haven't been any widespread reports of iPhone 3Gs or 3GSes that have been damaged or otherwise rendered unusable due to extreme heat. Not yet, at least.

Simple rule: don't feed the trolls. If someone has signed up for a site recently, and their first posts are complaints, there is a very good . . . very, very good . . . chance they are a troll.

Anyone new to iPhone, or Macs for that matter, who has a problem would go to the Apple site, or go to an Apple store to work things out.

If they come here to write posts you know they have an agenda.

I've been an Apple customer since 1982, and I have had complaints. But you know there is a reason why Apple ranks high in customer satisfaction -- its called customer service. And MacRumors, contrary to what some believe, is not the Apple customer service hotline.

[LagunaSol]

This stupid thin fetish is screwing up their hardware

I agree, and not just for reliability sake. Imagine how much usable the iPhone would be if they had, say, doubled the thickness of the battery. The resulting increase to the thickness of the overall device would be inconsequential to most people, but the gripes about battery life would become far more muted.

Thin is great, but not when it creates too much compromise.

[yiqinuk]

Apple doesn't need to face what is already under control or what doesn't exist with their product in the first place. There haven't been any widespread reports of iPhone 3Gs or 3GSes that have been damaged or otherwise rendered unusable due to extreme heat. Not yet, at least.

There are many problems can be caused by over heating. Shorten the battery life, poor signal quality, etc. damaging the device is the worse case. I am sure Apple does not want to hear people complain about dropping calls after long talk. I am talking about unreliable but unusable. 3G signal is not very extreme compare with what coming next like (HSUPA, LTE..). The worse to come when broadband services coming into life. As a big player in the handset market, (at least it is becoming) Apple should have a longer vision of the problems.

[jeyf]

my new 3gs iphone over heated twice. i can say:

-i do not have any applications in the iphone other than what came with
-phone in my pants pocket at my office, not a hot environment, :)


the 3gs thingy just over heats and the main bad is the battery life is greatly reduced afterwords. i had a pda back in the 90's didnt over heat and had voice gps, only bad it was microsoft.

i was one of the first in denver to have a 3gs and a week later due to the over heating the apple store replaced the phone and said early production lots were problematic. the new one seems stable, wonder at what cost tho? reduced rf reception, slower processor speeds?

[kurosov]

-phone in my pants pocket at my office, not a hot environment, :)

Depends on who works at the office.

[Warbrain]

my new 3gs iphone over heated twice. i can say:

-i do not have any applications in the iphone other than what came with
-phone in my pants pocket at my office, not a hot environment, :)


the 3gs thingy just over heats and the main bad is the battery life is greatly reduced afterwords. i had a pda back in the 90's didnt over heat and had voice gps, only bad it was microsoft.

i was one of the first in denver to have a 3gs and a week later due to the over heating the apple store replaced the phone and said early production lots were problematic. the new one seems stable, wonder at what cost tho? reduced rf reception, slower processor speeds?

"3gs thingy"? Sounds like a troll. And you're saying that there will be costs in a replacement that isn't from the initial production? Even more trollish. And then to compare the 3GS to a PDA from the 90s? Dude, those things got hot, too. And they were slow as molasses. Troll to the nth degree.

[Lanbrown]

Funny. I'm nor blind nor do I have trouble seeing any kind of "truth". You assume way too much and can't answer a simple question like what phone you are using?


You are making irrelevant statements and draw conclusions about the phone which are not true but you are entitled to your opinions, You just do not come off as very believable when you can't even tell what your comparrison is.

I have more than one phone. All of which have more capabilities than the iPhone and do not have any limitations like the ones that Apple likes in impose. All of my phone have pretty much the same capabilities but a different form-factor. One size does not fit all; other manufacturers know this, even Apple knows this; hence why they have 13", 15" and 17" notebooks.

Look at any S60 3rd Edition. They have had more capabilities when they were introduced and some were before the iPhone ever hit the market or announced and they still have more capabilities than the latest iPhone has today. How hard is that to understand? I'm not talking about and particular phone, but a whole range and different price points and for different market segments.

Just wait for Apple to make some changes to the iPhone and see how well the current apps won't run. One of the reasons why developing for the iPhone is easier is because of the lack of variety; like screen resolution.

What happens if it turns out to be the battery? Apple recently recalled the Nano in South Korea because of the battery. WHen Nokia had a battery issue, it was easy for the consumer, take battery out, put new battery in. Not every consumer was impacted either. So Apple is not immune to battery issues either; they are made by a third-party. Apple will have a much harder time swapping batteries though.

And here we go.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=8020630&posted=1#post8020630

That could just be rumor as well; using your logic here. Why is there an attorney forming a case against Apple? Sure some lawyers are ambulance chasers. So it will be interesting to see where this goes. I bet Apple settles out of court and my prediction, they say it was cheaper to settle than to fight it, but acknowledge no wrongdoing.

Now you are just thrashing. I am done.

Can't handle the truth.

What's your agenda here? Or, do you just have no life for such long, winded responses? And, why are so hostile? You're posting at MACRUMORS not NOKIARUMORS. Don't you think people here are Apple brand ambassadors?

iPhonies believe that Apple and the iPhoney is the best thing since sliced bread. I prefer to have currently technology not what has been done in the past.

Some believe that the iPhone was the first phone you could access the web on. Just to show you what Nokia has innovated and where the iPhone still falls short:
http://press.nokia.com/PR/199711/776601_5.html

http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1998/b3560046.arc.htm

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=879&view=1&c=nokia_9000_communicator

So, over 10 years before the iPhoney was released, a phone existed that had copy and paste, PIM, Internet access, etc. I guess Apple used old analog phones to get ideas for their design.

Nobody is trying to damage Apple's reputation. As a handset chip design engineer myslef, this overheating issue is not a surprise at all. Furthermore, overheating problem is for every single 3G handset Manufactures. It is mainly cause by high data rate services the 3G phone supported. I do not believe overheating problem is a isolated cases. I am sure you will see more and more coming out. Nokia and some other major handset manufactures are trying hard to overcome the problem created by the low efficiency PA chip. (in 2G or GSM low data rate services, PA chip running in a much higher efficiency mode). Due to the bandwidth it supported, PA has to back down to a very inefficient mode in order to cope with quality of the signal.
The over heating problem is there. Apple should face it and do not blame weather or something else.

Apple is the one that picks the components. Care to explain this:
Omnia HD:

HD ES 1.0: 1435 frames
HD ES 1.1: 1384 frames
PRO ES 1.0: 313 frames
PRO ES 1.1: 206 frames

CPU Performance: Float: 2691
CPU Performance: Integer: 19417

iPhone 3G S:

HD ES 1.0: 1791 Frames
HD ES 1.1: 1691 Frames
PRO ES 1.0: 774 Frames
PRO ES 1.1: 435 Frames

CPU Performance: Float: 2378
CPU Performance: Integer: 8920

Just for fun, a processor that Nokia used close to four years ago running at 330MHz:

GLBenchmark HD ES 1.0 : 2141 Frames
GLBenchmark HD ES 1.1 : 1904 Frames
GLBenchmark Pro ES 1.0 : 427 Frames
GLBenchmark Pro ES 1.1 : 564 Frames

CPU Performance
CPU Performance: Float : 1413
CPU Performance: Integer : 4257

Same 330MHz processor but with a much higher resolution screen; almost twice the resolution:
GLBenchmark HD ES 1.0 : 1899 Frames
GLBenchmark HD ES 1.1 : 1606 Frames
GLBenchmark Pro ES 1.0 : 386 Frames
GLBenchmark Pro ES 1.1 : 444 Frames

CPU Performance
CPU Performance: Float : 1409
CPU Performance: Integer : 4256

The Omnia has a higher resolution screen than the iPhone 3G S, so that explains the difference in the frames. But what about the processor specs, mainly the integer performance. That is a huge difference. CPU's in both phones are from Samsung, both are A8 Cortex ARM processors running at 600MHz. Did Apple hinder the phone through software or hardware?

There is a substantial difference between a phone that normally runs warm or even hot under heavy load, and a phone that is so hot that it is rendered unusable or becomes physically damaged in some way. "Overheating" means that the device in question is undergoing the kind of stress or pressure that is beyond its tolerances, resulting in damage or rendering the unit inoperative. That certainly isn't normal. As a "handset chip designer" I expect you can distinguish between the two.

Apple doesn't need to face what is already under control or what doesn't exist with their product in the first place. There haven't been any widespread reports of iPhone 3Gs or 3GSes that have been damaged or otherwise rendered unusable due to extreme heat. Not yet, at least.

As posted above, the CPU seems to have a huge performance issue compared to another phone with the same exact CPU. That means the iPhone 3G S has to work harder to accomplish the same task and take longer as well.

[Syonidism]

so much trolls....so little time...

I <3 my 3gs no overheat no discoloration. pure win.

bash in 3........2.........1......OH SHI-

[Takuta-Nui]

Even though the chances of it actually happening to me are very small, I'm rather glad I decided to go with a LG Dare when I needed a new cell this summer. Hope it lasts 3 years like my old cell did - by then the iPhone may have drastically reduced the risk of these incidents. One would hope, anyway.