Sony Halting Clie PDA sales in U.S.

[MacRumors]

Sony announced (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040601/D82UHB7O0.html) that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market.

The consumer electronics giant said it will continue product development and sales in Japan but that its efforts in the United States will end when it sells existing supplies of four Clie models.

Sony will reportedly continue sales in Japan at this time. Analysts suspect that the Clie division was a "money-losing business".

Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.

[Swinny]

Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).

[wrldwzrd89]

Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).
I agree - PDAs do seem to be dying out. The iPod has all the basic features needed for a simple PDA - it just lacks data entry (which could be implemented with the current interface, and would be easy to use). I envision the iPod in data-entry mode - the buttons are used to select things, and the scroll wheel is used to select a letter.

[johnnyjibbs]

Yep, PDA's were always expensive and relatively pointless in my book. Still, if I had the money... I'm a bit of a gadget freak! I don't think Apple will enter that market.

[hob]

I really wish Apple would at least offer an upgrade for the iPod to allow data entry. My T630's Address Book is up to scratch, but the calender is atrocious! (so, seemingly is my spelling :P)

Hob

[nagromme]

Truly GOOD input can't be done on the current iPods. Such a feature should never be hyped by Apple as anything major. Input with a wheel would not be Apple ease-of-use.

BUT... ANY kind of input is an important step, and useful because for many people, input is a much rarer need than output. Example: I look up addresses FAR more than I create new ones. (That's why it often works OK to have to use your computer--with full keys and screen--to do the entry.)

Simply adding SOME kind of input, however much it may be a compromise, would be a GREAT thing for some users--like me!

But it has to be fast--if someone tells me a phone number or meeting time, I can't be messing with scrolling through the alphabet one char at a time. At the same time, though, the simple current controls should stay that way: the iPod is for music first and foremost.

Solution? VOICE MEMOS! That's the easiest possible form of input--easier and faster than keyboard or stylus even. And it doesn't change the iPod's simplicity--IF they build it in rather than requiring an add-on pod. Please!

There's always a compromise--in the case of voice memos, you must re-enter the data on your computer when you get home. But that's a good trade for instant, dead-simple input on the spot--versus no input or slow and tedious input. (Or vs. an expensive stylus screen--not a bad BTO option though.)

[wrldwzrd89]

I really wish Apple would at least offer an upgrade for the iPod to allow data entry. My T630's Address Book is up to scratch, but the calender is atrocious! (so, seemingly is my spelling :P)

Hob
As I mentioned previously, no hardware changes would be needed to implement this - just an iPod software upgrade. I just submitted feedback to Apple regarding this - if you want to send something too, click here (http://www.apple.com/feedback/) for Apple's feedback page, then click iPod, then enter and submit your feedback. Note: the feedback form is out of date - it doesn't include 10.3.3 or 10.3.4 as choices for Mac OS version.

[backspinner]

Truly GOOD input can't be done on the current iPods...
I use the few keys on my mobile phone all the time and that works also. I use the scroll wheel method all the time on some professional electronic equipment and that also works very well. It's not really fast but for me it's a working solution. Imagine that you are far away from your computer and want to input some text and have plenty of time -- the scroll wheel would be enough.

[gekko513]

Solution? VOICE MEMOS!
Good post, good arguments and a good conclusion. :)

[iMan]

Solution? VOICE MEMOS! That's the easiest possible form of input--easier and faster than keyboard or stylus even. And it doesn't change the iPod's simplicity--IF they build it in rather than requiring an add-on pod. Please!


And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!

[HasanDaddy]

does this mean that Apple is releasing a PDA??

SmartPhones are where its at

I'm sure Sony will start revving up its work on the P900, now that they don't have to worry about the Clie market

[SFNE Freak]

Could they not create an iPod keyboard that the iPod sits on like they make for PDAs?

[howard]

this is frustrating,

i've always wanted a pda type device. but none seem to work the way i want them to, so close... i was hoping apple would make one that would actually work the way its supposed to but this seems to show that it may be a dieing market, unfortunately for me.

doesn't it seem like they should be extremely useful if made correctly?

[0 and A ai]

And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!

Processing power says no

[BrianKonarsMac]

the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.

[howard]

i think they are going about them all wrong, pda's need to simplify. they don't need digital camera's they don't even need gobs of memory to put music or videos on. they should replace the memo pad, in which what they do need is good screens, good text recognition. good organized contact and memo and draw functions.

all that other crap i doubt people use all the much and drives up the cost, and if they do sell...well theres always the more expensive ones...but don't sacrafice key software that you need on the entry level ones

[365]

The Blackberry ( www.blackberry.com ) is the ideal device for me but something a little more sleek. It's a mobile phone / pda but for me the most important thing is that it 'pushes' email to you while you're on the move and for an email junkie this is Nirvana.

Yes I think the PDA as we know it is coming to an end or should I say evolving into a mobile commucication device ( a cell phone ).

[Torajima]

I agree - PDAs do seem to be dying out. The iPod has all the basic features needed for a simple PDA

<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...

[cb911]

wow. that's a surprise to see that they're shutting down the Clie, and they just released that new model not so long ago...

oh well, when you've got a 10" sub-notebook who needs a PDA? :D

[rosalindavenue]

I have a 2 year old CLIE PEGT615-C. At the time, it was the best Palm-OS PDA going-- high res color screen, scroll wheel. It still works great, gets great battery life, and I hope to use it for 2-3 more years. (I'm a lawyer and I keep my work calendar, addresses, notes, and sometimes word docs and other stuff on it.) I think that Sony has (correctly) seen that the stand-alone PDA is a dead end, because mobile devices are converging at a rapid pace. My next PDA will probably be part of my mobile phone. I suspect that this PDA/Phone will also have an MP3 player and internet access. I hope that Apple won't keep their head in the sand as these devices converge. This year, when I get on a plane, I have to empty my pockets of a phone, a PDA, an ipod, and sometimes an audible otis (IMO ipods dont handle audiobooks well enough yet). And this is traveling "light," without a laptop. I think that one device will cover all of these bases (including the laptop) in three years, tops (look at the cover story of this week's newsweek (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5092820/site/newsweek/). Apple, which makes the best laptops and the best mp3 players, and which invented the PDA, had better get in on the convergence ASAP.

[wrldwzrd89]

<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...
You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off. This trend also explains the reluctance of PDA makers like Palm to support the Macintosh, since most corporations don't use Macs - only PCs or Linux/UNIX boxes.

[Torajima]

You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off. This trend also explains the reluctance of PDA makers like Palm to support the Macintosh, since most corporations don't use Macs - only PCs or Linux/UNIX boxes.

Depends on the corporation... if your business is in an audio/video related field, you most likely use Macs.

And there are some companies (like mine) that are switching to macs because we are tired of the constant headaches and security problems with PCs.

It would be pretty stupid for Palm to stop supporting the Mac... Palms are Macs users only real PDA option. PC users can (and are) switching to Pocket PCs.

[sigamy]

Apple, which makes the best laptops and the best mp3 players, and which invented the PDA, had better get in on the convergence ASAP.

Great post. I just wonder if Steve Jobs suffers from NIBM (not invented by me) as far as PDAs go and that will keep him from developing a smart phone. An Apple designed phone running Address Book, Mail, Safari and scaled down versions of iChat, iTunes and iPhoto would be awesome.

[Torajima]

the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.

What in the heck are you talking about? The Sony Clie's can run regular Palm software, play regular old mp3s, and play videos using 3rd party codecs. There is no DRM to speak of...

[kenaustus]

I have a little Sony SJ-30 - doesn't have a phone, camera or do my income taxes for me. I sync it with the Mac for addresses (still the most important feature) & calendar, but also download airline schedules, use a currency converter (both Windows apps thru VPC) and have some family pictures. I also use SplashWallet, which is great to keep sensitive data.

Before traveling I download (normally via VPC) bits & pieces, like translating apps and even the map of the London tube system.

My Sony is very much like my Mac in that it is simple, doesn't overload me when I want to keep it simple, but can do things I need or want. No phone, no camera and it won't do my income taxes for me.

The ability to add different apps (airline schedules, London tube maps, currency converters) is the key for a PDA and the main challenge for an Apple PDA. Development money is better spent on Macs, iPods and software.

The last thing to remember is that the elegance of the iPod is one of its main selling features. Add on a load of different physical functions and you change that elegance level. Color screen integrated with iPhoto (Mac ONLY)? Fine - still elegant. Ability to play short QuickTime files? Fine - still elegant. Download stickies? Sure. Throw in a camera, phone and vibrator for stiff necks - Aghhh.

[sigamy]

You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off.

I disagree about the corporate use. I've been in corporate IT for about 10 years and I've seen PDA usage hit its peak (Palm V and then first Compaq iPAQ) and now it is definetly on the decline. I see so many brand new shiny HP iPAQs sitting in the cradle while their owner is off in some meeting. It's a terrible waste of money. Most people buy them just because they can--it's the corporations money--but they don't use them at all.

PDAs have always been for gadget freaks. Most people love paper day planners and the PHONE. Most people only want to carry one device. You can not under estimate the importance of that. The world has decided that they like to carry a cell phone so the PDA is gone. Most people are fine with printing out their agenda from Outlook as long as they have their cell phone at their side.

I love PDAs, I own a Clie TJ25 and I'd love to get a TH55 but I've known for a long time that PDAs are a niche and that niche will get smaller and smaller. Smartphone/mobile communicator is the next big thing.

[jcshas]

I think this is further proof that the demand for PDA's is nowhere near what it used to be due in part to a definite trend towards smart phones that incorporate PDA functionality and the increasing popularity of notebook computers. I've owned several different PDA's over the past five years - a mixture of Palm & Pocket PC's - and IMO I found them to be a nice gadget/toy, but not much more than that. I realize not all consumers have the same needs, but I just can't see the point of spending in upwards of $400-600 on a PDA when you can accomplish nearly the same thing with your cell phone, and you only have to carry around one device. The last PDA I owned was a $699 HP iPaq Pocket PC, and I ended up ebaying it, and using the proceeds to purchase an iBook. THE BEST DECISION I HAVE EVER MADE! I have since gone back to using my trusty old Palm V. Sure it lacks alot of the bells and whistles of newer PDA's on the market, but in the end I found all I ever used my PDA for was to manage my contacts, to-do lists, and schedule. Just my two cents.

[jeffbistrong]

i think they are going about them all wrong, pda's need to simplify. they don't need digital camera's they don't even need gobs of memory to put music or videos on. they should replace the memo pad, in which what they do need is good screens, good text recognition. good organized contact and memo and draw functions.

all that other crap i doubt people use all the much and drives up the cost, and if they do sell...well theres always the more expensive ones...but don't sacrafice key software that you need on the entry level ones

HP makes a nice line of PDAs, I have an iPAQ 5450. The whole line of iPAQs are very good, what they need is like a combination of a PDA and blackberry devices, there recently was an article in the New York Times, on May 30 about the widespread use of blackberry devices.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/30/fashion/30BLAC.html

They don't need the complexities of having a camera on a PDA, and other features that most people will not use. A blackberry that has more of an iPAQ look could be more dominant in the PDA world.

[SiliconAddict]

Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).


Whatever. And Jobs knows every market on the planet. :rolleyes: The fact of the matter is Sony is a Multimedia company. And Sony had to shoehorn multimedia into the POS. I still remember the direct quote from Palm's CEO back at CES 2001. Something to the tone of "Users don't need or want color or sound" Ya whatever.

The only reasons why PDA sales are slipping is two fold. #1. Lack of reason to upgrade. Unlike computers that come out with a new model every 6 months and basically become obsolete after an 18-24 month timeframe (Note: Obsolete but still usable.) an original PDA from 1995 still does exactly what it did back then. Keep your PIM items. On the Pocket PC side where multimedia content is a HELL of a lot more richer I have two systems. An old first gen iPaq that came out in 2000 that still runs just about every app on the market and a HP Jornada that came out in 2002 that DOES run every app on the market. I've been looking at upgrading but really when I look at the current state of PDA's (Now that Sony has bowed out I won't consider Palm.) the only big diff I see is added BlueTooth, WIFI, slightly better screen, more memory (Something I already get through my 512MB CF card and 1GB microdrive.) and some smaller devices. Nice features to be sure but not a MAJOR incentive to upgrade. New innovative PDA types are needed. Innovation both in form factor and features. If you look at Pocket PC's that were released in 2003 and those that were released in 2004 the systems themselves are nearly identical. Same amount of RAM (typically 64MB) Same CPU. Same wireless features. There is no compelling reason for a PDA user to upgrade. PDA's aren't dieing out. Its simply that users have no reason to go out and spend anywhere from $200-$600 bucks on a nearly identical model.
With that being said. I do think we are about to see some sweat things come from the PDA market in the near future. Microsoft has released Pocket PC 2003SE to the OEMs literally weeks ago and POS cobalt is FINALLY in the hands of OEM's (Pitty the only company who can really use some of its more advanced features is leaving the fold.) The biggest change with Pocket PC 2003SE is VGA support, dynamic on the fly screen rotation, and a wide array of screen sizes and resolutions. The underlying API for 2003SE also have been tweaked to support those screen resolutions and sizes. So software developers no longer have to code for devices that are QVGA vs. VGA. The app will be aware of the rez and the screen orientation and tweak itself. VGA doesn't sound like a big deal but the one device I HAVE seen that has this implemented and the display is sexy as hell.

And before someone complains about how tiny the icons will be MS has worked that out. There is a slider bar for the system font to allow the user to select how big or small the font will be. On top of that dialog boxes and older apps use a pixel doubling method to keep your system menus, taskbar, and older apps normal size without you needing to squint.

#2 is downturn in the economy. People are still being fickle about what they spend their money on. People aren't going to go out and drop 200-600 once every 2 years. PDA upgrades are pricy and this ties in with #1 quite well.

This is a major technology that is showing up in PDA's and I can guarantee you that it WILL drive sales but OEM's can NOT remain stagnant. They must continue to give the consumer incentive to upgrade above and beyond this years model. Long term what other tech can we expect? OLED displays, fuel cell batts, 802.11G WIFI. But I think the ultimate goal for MS is going to get Windows XP in a device this small. Its too early for that right now but we ARE getting close and when that happens the PDA market isn't so much going to die as its going to morph/merge with the tablet market. When its all said and done that’s what a Palm and Pocket PC really is: A Tablet Computer. At some point these devices are going to be powerful enough to run Windows, Linux, OS X without breaking a sweat and at that point the Palm OS and Pocket PC OS (i.e. Windows CE 4.25) will die. Here is the beautiful thing. CE that OS that the Pocket PC runs on. Its API's are compatible with Windows XP embedded so MS has looked ahead far enough to possibly make some backwards compatibility possible.

This is obviously my personal opinion but I think in the future there are going to be 4 options when it comes to computers:
Desktop, Laptop, Tablet PC (In convertible and slate forms.), and ultraportable. (The grandson of the current Pocket PC/Palm)

[pimentoLoaf]

Goody! :cool:

Now Palm can dominate the market again.

Use my Tungsten T all the time; I'd be lost without it.

[SiliconAddict]

Oh one other note. Keep in mind the size of Sony. The new PSP (Playstation Portable.) that is coming out is going to meet their multimedia needs better then any Clie ever could. I'm wondering if the decision came down that the PSP takes priority over the Clie.

[mdesbiens]

For me, a nicer iPod would kill any need in me for a Clie.

This is all about my iPod... that is, the theoretical iPod Apple will make just for me. Many of you might disagree. For starters, I don't really care if it becomes PDA-like. I have a cell phone that keeps all my phone numbers. There is nothing cool or impressive about a PDA. Again, this is just me. I don't consider tips or taxes to be complex mathematical structures with which this ingenious device - which remains not much larger than an ordinary calculator - will wow me in it's capabilities. Truth is, any grown human being should be able to figure out sales tax in their head faster than one can find the app for it on a Clie. A tip should be based on feelings of satisfaction and gratitude, rather than the solution to a mathematical equasion. Now if a Clie could FORECAST the weather, that would be something. That is processing power. However, being able to display the forecast is not all that impressive, and I would only need to check it once a day, on my laptop or desktop would be fine. And I'll leave my persistent need for the knowledge of the world's tides alone... at least until the day after tomorrow.

Nevertheless, I would be exited to see some PDA functions make it to the iPod. Data entry would be cool. No, I don't have forty-eight meetings a day to keep track of. I don't pencil in beer with Andy for eight and, far from my laptop, suddenly realize that I can't make it until nine, panic under the notion that the time my iPod displays will not be the time I arrive, collapse, die, and leave stipulated in my eWill that my schedule must be updated to notify me of my funeral engagement. No, I just want to be able to make playlists. A stylus/touch-screen would make this supremely easy. However, there would have to be a hardware hold button for the screen for this to be less than the most annoying feature in the world. Also, it would be nice if the screen didn't shatter fifteen times a day like all my useless Palms have. iPods have been, so far, unbelievably rugged.

A color screen would be nice. Even if it didn't really do anything at all; even if there was no advantage to it whatsoever (much like the Palm IIIC), color screens are just cooler. And we get into photos. Photos are alright. I have been known to snap a few quickies with my camera phone when something absolutely calls for it. I have a picture of a train on fire, for example. Setting that as the background to my ipod might be fun for a little while. It would be a convenient way to show the picture to my friends (who won't believe that I saw a burning train). That would work every once in a while. I have a hidden reason, though, for wanting a color screen. It isn't pictures or backgrounds or cool factor... it's album art. I want it to show up right on the display.

WiFi would be cool. A sync on range feature (only from the iPod's registered computer, of course) would be nice. And, while we are doing that and the text input thing, let's give everyone another way to check their email and browse the web, while simultaneously providing the only reasonably useful service that a Clie offers. I'm all for that, even thought it is getting to be a task to check my email on five different devices.

This 'my ipod' would certainly be welcome over my current ipod. With these advances, my ipod would certainly overshadow the two Sony Clies that were given to me last year as gifts, for which I could never find a good reason to even carry (despite their light weight and nifty design). Of course, if Sony just slapped a 20 gig drive in one of those, they just might have had something there. But they would have ruined it by not supporting MP3's.

[ccuilla]

This article has more information: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-06-01-pda_x.htm

Has some additional comments and details from analysts. It is not just Sony...it is the market. I guess that Steve was right.

[CTerry]

Frankly PDAs have always felt to me like they're leading onto something else. Pioneering technology for another phase.

Thats increasingly becoming apparent as Smart Phones. There are 10 million PDA users worldwide I believe, whereas the amount of mobile users is 100 million at the smallest of estimates.

Most people I know use their mobile in some PDAish way, yes you do get people who just use it for calls, but most use cameras, or memos, or alarms, or mp3 players, or video players etc.

With the rise of Symbian OS, and the fact there is now a Mobile version of Pocket Windows, with a smart phone version of Palm OS 6 on the way I think this is definitely THE growth area.

[macridah]

Jobs did call it ... PDA's wouldn't be a good market to get into. So good thing Jobs didn't get pressured by a few people to make or revive the newton.

I hope the new iPod will have more PDA like features.

[mudflapper]

I just bought a Sony Ericsson P900, and while it's easliy the best, coolest smart phone out there, it's not an iPhone, ya know? I would LOVE an Apple smart phone. I think millions of other gadget freaks would as well, especially in the EU. They're crazy for gadgets over there. PDAs are slowly but surely dying because, really, who wants to drag around an iPod, a phone AND a Palm Pilot? I don't have enough pockets for that crap and I don't want to have to carry a man-purse.

Apple, where's my iPhone/iPod hybrid???

mudflapper

[Torajima]

I'm surprised Mac users don't get it... it's the PALM OS that makes it what it is. I don't want to use a Pocket PC (clunky and unintuitive), or iPod (limited features and difficult navigation) or a Phone with PDA capabilities (again, clunky and unintuitive OS). I want the Palm OS, just as I want the Mac OS.

Now, I have no problems with Palms and cell phones converging, in fact my next Palm will probably be a Treo. But a cell phone with a few PDA features just isn't going to cut it in my book.

Handheld computers definately have a future.... Jobs and the rest of you are shortsighted if you can't see this.

[Wash!!]

NEWTON!! flame on!!

[MikeTheC]

the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.
Sorry, but that's simply untrue. Regardless of platform, you have an option on all audio-playback capable CLIEs of using MP3s. I happen to know for a fact that 128 bit and up, with any MP3 app's DRM shut off, using either the "stereo" or "joint stereo" option will produce perfectly acceptable results.

Assuming you buy Mark|Space's Missing Sync software (which gives drivers and conduits), you also get support for iTunes, and when attached and in "Memory Stick Transfer Mode" via either the audio player or MS Export / Data Export, you can do this directly from iTunes. You can't use Apple's DRM files on a CLIE, of course.

Guess this is all a bit academic now though, isn't it?

Mike

[Stella]

PDAs are dead, long live the smartphone! (Symbian, the only one that really matters these days :D )
Sony announced (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040601/D82UHB7O0.html) that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market.



Sony will reportedly continue sales in Japan at this time. Analysts suspect that the Clie division was a "money-losing business".

Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.

[actripxl]

Well Sony will be missed since they do seem to have a really good line up of PDA's. Granted most people don't need a pda, but I'm 3 months from finishing dental school and my pda is indispensable. It's great I have all my patients information on it that I just would not be able to have on a paper agenda. Again most people really don't need them though a Zire wouldn't hurt someone to be a bit more organized. As much as I love my iPod especially since I'm a HUGE music freak and I use it to relax before I start working on a patient or pump me up for a surgery, it will be left behind before my T3. Yes I have a palm, but Sony help them push things along since they were falling behind Pocket PC.

[mrsebastian]

Sony announced (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040601/D82UHB7O0.html) that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market...Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.

come on?! why on earth would apple jump into the pda market when there isn't one there, look at sony. hold the flame throwers my pda-luvin friends. if apple wants to incorporate certain features of a pda into say something like an ipod with a color screen, then that makes some sense. the pda as we know it is going away, but will be around in some form and right now that looks to be incorporated in cell phones.

[Stella]

Your company doesn't set treads!

The company I work for, all support people and others get Black Berrys. These are more like smartphones - they have PDA functionality with, some high end models - cell phone capability.

Smartphones can do any thing your palm can do or any PDA - in your list of points, and aren't more expensive that then very high end PDAs. Symbian phones - i.e, p900 can be connected to GPS devices too (via Blue Tooth)



<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...

[SiliconAddict]

This article has more information: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-06-01-pda_x.htm

Has some additional comments and details from analysts. It is not just Sony...it is the market. I guess that Steve was right.

Nope he just doesn't want to get into another market so what does someone with an ego the size of San Fran do?

The industry is irrelevant. Its a stupid industry. Its going to go belly up. And you know what? In a couple years....he will be wrong.

[SiliconAddict]

Your company doesn't set treads!

The company I work for, all support people and others get Black Berrys. These are more like smartphones - they have PDA functionality with, some high end models - cell phone capability.

Smartphones can do any thing your palm can do or any PDA - in your list of points, and aren't more expensive that then very high end PDAs. Symbian phones - i.e, p900 can be connected to GPS devices too (via Blue Tooth)

With one big diff. You get some dinky 1"-2" screen to do that all on. Thanks but at minimum I'll take a 3"-4" screen for data input. Smartphones SUCK when it comes to data input. And I'm sorry but BB's ARE NOTHING remotely like Palm's or Pocket PC's. I could rattle off a list of various reasons but I'll leave it at this. They do PIM, mail, and phone very well and that is it.

[SiliconAddict]

I'm surprised Mac users don't get it... it's the PALM OS that makes it what it is. I don't want to use a Pocket PC (clunky and unintuitive)

Ya unintuitive. Right. Sure. :rolleyes:

*coughs*FUD*coughs* :p

[Abstract]

If Apple ever decides to give iPods some PDA functions, it means they have completely lost the plot on the issue.

Make a phone/PDA, like the Palm-Handspring Treo 600, that happens to run a special version of Mac OS10, and I'd buy one. If it happens to double as a flash memory mp3 player, then even better, but it doesn't have to be an iPod derivative whatsoever.

[SiliconAddict]

This is where the future of PDA's is going.............

http://www.indystar.com/images/pics2/image-149758-1706.jpg

[dopefiend]

This is where the future of PDA's is going.............

http://www.indystar.com/images/pics2/image-149758-1706.jpg

Nope, thats where current ultralight x86 PCs are going. ;)

[RogerQ]

And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!

Right on! There are plenty of voice-rec products out now that do quite well with a limited target set. Like those wonderful phone "support" lines that say things like, "To access another annoying voice menu, say 'one' now."

Processing power says no

Not a problem for stuff like addresses: there's no need to do the analysis in real-time. You could record your entry (in the worst case, spelling each word out) and when you're done, the iPod chugs away in the background doing the conversion.

Even if it takes fifteen minutes, it's no biggie. You're not likely to need to call the entry back up that quickly; if you do, you listen to the audio version.

When the iPod finishes, it PINGS, and shows you the conversion for confirmation. You then use the scroll wheel to fix any typos.

Would be pretty slick (and tie in with Apple's current voice-accessibility push).

[Torajima]

Ya unintuitive. Right. Sure. :rolleyes:

*coughs*FUD*coughs* :p

It only took an hour for me to figure out how to connect our Palms to our wireless network.... took months to figure out how to connect the Pocket PCs. Sounds pretty damn unintuitive to me....

[ccrandall77]

I disagree about the corporate use. I've been in corporate IT for about 10 years and I've seen PDA usage hit its peak (Palm V and then first Compaq iPAQ) and now it is definetly on the decline. I see so many brand new shiny HP iPAQs sitting in the cradle while their owner is off in some meeting. It's a terrible waste of money. Most people buy them just because they can--it's the corporations money--but they don't use them at all.

I would disagree with this. We rely heavily on Palms at our shop. All of the financial reps in the field need Palms to sync with Siebel so they have all their contact info readily available when out on sales.

There are also a lot of us here in the IT department that use PDAs on a daily basis. It's nice to be able to sync to our enterprise scheduler so we know when and where our meetings are.

I've owned about 12 different PDAs in a search to find the perfect one for my needs. So far, none really make the cut. I just sold my Clie UX-50 and while it was a nice PDA, it had several really annoying problems. First, it's too damn proprietary. Only Sony products use memory sticks AFAIK and Sony insists on using a different sync protocol (requiring Missing Sync on the Mac), a slightly different Palm Desktop, etc. etc. Movie files needed to be named according to a certain nomenclature and placed in a certain directory in order to be viewed. So, downloading MPEGs on the web was worthless unless you either wanted to view them immediately or rename and move them later.

Right now, I'm using a Sharp SL-C760. The PIM apps are garbage and it won't sync to a Mac. But, it's very powerful, great for network troubleshooting, web browsing, email, and developing little applications.

I'm really hoping Apple comes out with a similar clamshell-type PDA with a mini-iPod HDD and firewire/USB ports. I'd hope it'd run some small version of Darwin/OSX with pocket versions of iPhoto & iMovie (for downloading digital camera and camcorder content and previewing it), iTunes (with the ability to wirelessly connect to another iTunes server), addressbook/calendar/todo, Quicktime, and a terminal app (for hacking). I would find such a device extremely useful as it would replace my PDA and iPod and provide more functioinality than both combined.

I also disagree with smartphones totally replacing the PDA. Personally, I prefer to keep the two separate and use bluetooth to connect them. That way, I can get a great phone and a great PDA and not be saddled with a mediocre smartphone. Also, I don't always need a full smartphone with me and such a device would probably have too small of a screen to be useful for playing multimedia content or web browsing... plus, where are you going to put the thumb keyboard???

[dongmin]

Not a problem for stuff like addresses: there's no need to do the analysis in real-time. You could record your entry (in the worst case, spelling each word out) and when you're done, the iPod chugs away in the background doing the conversion. No way that you can do sophisticated voice recognition on an iPod. Even modern-day PCs with fast CPUs and hard drives have hard enough time doing it. But you guys are missing the point. The iPod doesn't need to do the processing. All it needs to do is simply store. When you go back home to your home PC and sync your iPod, the PC automatically coverts the AIFFs into text.

Another possibility is to do address-swapping via Bluetooth. This is not a new idea but no one has really made it work yet. But if anyone knows how to connect devices and make them sync hassle-free it's Apple.

The last possibility is to use add-ons like a Bluetooth optical pen (example 1 (http://www.zyonshop.com/product/ipen.htm), example 2 (http://www.theapplecollection.com/design/macdesign/opticalpen.html)). You can keep the pen next to the iPod in the iPod case. When you turn on the pen, the iPod (via Bluetooth) detects the pen and goes into "pixel-write" mode. After you write your note, you hit on a button on the iPod and boom it stores it as a PICT file that later will be converted through Inkwell on your home computer.

[jiggie2g]

While i'm glad to see Sony fall Victim to thier own Stupidity and incompitence. it will be sad to see Palm slowy fade away and Die , because i did like that Palm OS , however Pocket PC is gaining momentum in a big way. if any one has seen those new Dell X30's or an HP iPaq 4355 they will know what i am talking about. Pocket PC's are as of now just the better product for the Money , they are faster than many old PC's now at 624mhz and can be over clocked well prob see some OC'd at over 800mhz. and i'm sure well see a 1Ghz PDA by Next year with intergrated ATI or Invidia chips.

I believe the PDA market has still has room to grow by evolving into a sort of Mini Note Book Replacement as size is a factor this is why the Tablet PC failed miserably. the PDA will become what the Tablet PC was supposed to be.

By the Spring time next year we will have PDA's with standard VGA screens, 1 in or .85in Hard Drives in the 2 or 4 GB size maybe larger, sliding keyboards. Wi-Fi & BT and maybe even 1 mega Pix cameras. i would gladly pay $499 for something like that.

Palm= Fancy Organizer / Pocket PC= Mini NoteBook ,that how i see it.

[dopefiend]

if any one has seen those new Dell X30's or an HP iPaq 4355 they will know what i am talking about. Pocket PC's are as of now just the better product for the Money , they are faster than many old PC's now


Those new Dells are awsome!

624mhz, built in wireless 802.11b, bluetooth, 64 mb ram/rom, the dang processor is able to scale its mhz!

all for only $350!!!

craziness!

[markseaton]

I work for LondonDrugs in Canada we sell more and more pda each day it's now a requirement for many classes at UBC and SFU and many other schools so in no way is the PDA out, the two major competitors in the market now are Blackberries and Palm, Palm has an awesome PDA it is great for memos and everyday things, sony is doing down because they tried to make it into an entertainment device and it was just too costly the Blackberry has one major future the ability to get e-mail and act as a pager anywhere your cell can go, and now it's a cell too, but it lacks the ability Palm has to for data input, if apple were to make a PDA they would have to make two models one with a cellular technology in it to go up against the Blackberry and then one without for a people that don't need it, BUT it should be upgradable to it in a later date apple already has the os for a great PDA the screen should be as big as the tungsten T3 but no bigger.

i hope apple gets the picture that people would buy a PDA from them if they do it right :D

[Stella]

With one big diff. You get some dinky 1"-2" screen to do that all on. Thanks but at minimum I'll take a 3"-4" screen for data input. Smartphones SUCK when it comes to data input. And I'm sorry but BB's ARE NOTHING remotely like Palm's or Pocket PC's. I could rattle off a list of various reasons but I'll leave it at this. They do PIM, mail, and phone very well and that is it.

we will have to disagree - i find data input on a P900 is of no problem with its screen. When it comes to word processing, I wouldn't use a Palm for that either ( see Psion 5 below)..

smartphones do most thigns everything well - especially symbian - games, email, PIM, notes, music... I like the ability to only have 1 thing to carry about - instead of a phone + PDA.

i still miss my Psion 5 - a perfect PDA - with a very good keyboard. I could do word processing stuff on that thing no problem... alias.. those days are gone. Shame Psion gave up....

[kelvinz]

I never liked the Clie line anyway, most of it was clunky and overpriced.

[MegaSignal]

My gut feelings tell me that the PDA/Cellphone/MP3 player/Smart Phone technologies are on such a fast technological collision course that such a company as Apple will probably think/design WAY, WAY outside of the box so much so that we might end up with a very interesting product in the end...

Should be interesting, to say the least.

[BobVB]

... they started out so well, a way to have a data device with you at all times so you only have to enter data ONCE and have all your essential data with you. The entry method was perfect - you could write it, and you didn't have to look at the entry device once you became proficient with Grafitti.

I thought they would improve the technology, but they only left behind all the reasons it worked - the only improvement over the basic PDA would be a PDA phone, but Treo replaced Grafitti with tiny keyboards that only insure you will NEVER be able to enter data without looking at the device. Palm stop developing working Mac syncing tools (I've had to retire my Palm because their software will no longer support the serial models) and the current palms are over priced and don't have any essential features that the original models had. I don't need color, I don't need cameras, I don't need movies!

The PDA market has died because they are providing products no one wants or needs. Give us a cell phone with bluetooth and graphical data entry - That is a tool we could actually use.

Voice memos? Please! Like I'm going to transcribe voice memos when I get back to my computer... Scroll wheel entry? Why not just shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails while you're at it. ;)

[dieselg4]

<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.


...

My realtor used one to map properties and store and unlock codes for the lock boxes. I seem toremeber him saying all Prudential agents were to purchase one. . . . kinda handy I think - but of course too much for an iPod to do.

[Dave00]

The PDA is certainly not dead. As a physician, it's an absolutely essential part of my work. Vindigo (www.vindigo.com) has become a big part of my non-work life. Visiting a new city, want to know what's going on tonight, and how to get there? Check Vindigo.

Sony's getting out of the market (and Apple staying out) because there's alot of players and downward pressure on prices. And, in my opinion, because they've ignored what most people want - a smaller, simpler device with more memory & better handwriting recognition. Instead, companies have focused on cramming more devices into one. Combo devices tend to work less well than dedicated devices, and also tend to be larger. I have a clie, but never use the mp3/video features. I certainly didn't want a camera or phone to be built in. The reason phone/pda's don't work so well is that the screen size needed to make a functional PDA is too big to work as a phone. An ideal PDA maximizes height & width (to the max that will fit in a shirt pocket) while minimizing depth. An ideal phone has minimal width (& to some extent height) while requiring some depth to fit nicely in a hand.

[maveness]

Maybe Sony knows something ELSE about the US market... maybe they saw a prototype out of Apple and decided that there was no point in competing here.

They're still selling the Clie's in Japan, for now. Considering the lagtime in getting mini iPods to overseas markets, maybe they figure they've got a year or so of sales on the Clie before the Apple competition hits.

[dopefiend]

Maybe Sony knows something ELSE about the US market... maybe they saw a prototype out of Apple and decided that there was no point in competing here.

maybe they figure they've got a year or so of sales on the Clie before the Apple competition hits.

hehe, and pigs fly, cows give chocolate milk, and my name is Homer Simpson ;)

[iChan]

the market price of palmsource dropped by a massive 17% on trading as a result of this news. I wonder if it is possible that sony planned for this to happen so they can buy Palm source?

it's not as implausible as it sounds. As Sony CEO Nobuyuki Idea stated not so long ago that sony would be interesting in purchasing Palmsource.

the interview was conducted at Alwayson.com

there is an interesting article right here...
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5078

Sony in fact owns 6% of Palm Source.

Sony needs an operating system of their own. maybe palm is the way to go?? with more funding, it could develop into a world class OS

[iChan]

Goody! :cool:

Now Palm can dominate the market again.

Use my Tungsten T all the time; I'd be lost without it.

please don't be absolutely ridiculous. how is the fact that sony is dropping all support of Cliés in the US going to benefit PalmOne or PalmSource?

Palm May dominate the PalmOS market, but the overall market for Palm is going to drop at the very least 25% and you will see a huge surge is PPC uptake. whichever way you try to spin it, losing Sony is MAJOR.

[MikeTheC]

For you folks who own or know people who own CLIEs, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get over to the Sony support site and D/L every thing you can for the CLIEs before, who only knows when, Sony decides not to maintain that stuff online anymore. It probably wouldn't hurt to get an extra copy of the driver CD or a copy if the unit was bought open-box, as, like I said, you never know how long the parts will be available for it.

Support Page: Sony Online Support - CLIE Handheld and Accessories (http://ciscdb.sel.sony.com/perl/select-clie.pl)

Sony World Repair & Parts Center (U.S.) #: 800-488-7669

Me, personally, I'd get a couple extra styli, extra batteries for those units with notebook-style battery modules, etc.

Of course, on the other hand, you could always dump it on eBay and get a Palm or (gaak!) a PocketPC-based unit.

Mike

[Awimoway]

we will have to disagree - i find data input on a P900 is of no problem with its screen. When it comes to word processing, I wouldn't use a Palm for that either ( see Psion 5 below)..

smartphones do most thigns everything well - especially symbian - games, email, PIM, notes, music... I like the ability to only have 1 thing to carry about - instead of a phone + PDA.

i still miss my Psion 5 - a perfect PDA - with a very good keyboard. I could do word processing stuff on that thing no problem... alias.. those days are gone. Shame Psion gave up....

I will never EVER prefer thumbtyping with dinky buttons to a stylus for data entry. Give me the stylus, the original method of data entry since time immemorial (handwriting).

And give me screen real estate. No one in their right mind would use their PDA for daily word processing needs, but it comes in very handy when you're on the go and either don't have your notebook computer or it's too much trouble to get it out. Additionally, I use the big screen for reading. My PDA has a very good dictionary and language translator on it. I can't imagine how unbearable it would be trying to use those apps on a wee phone. :rolleyes:

[Stella]

its called SonyEricsson P900...
supports BT, graphical data entry - excellent, excellent handwriting recongition - uses natural handwriting - not like Palm grafitti.. oh, and can do voice recordings too ( and video )...



The PDA market has died because they are providing products no one wants or needs. Give us a cell phone with bluetooth and graphical data entry - That is a tool we could actually use.

Voice memos? Please! Like I'm going to transcribe voice memos when I get back to my computer... Scroll wheel entry? Why not just shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails while you're at it. ;)

[Awimoway]

... they started out so well, a way to have a data device with you at all times so you only have to enter data ONCE and have all your essential data with you. The entry method was perfect - you could write it, and you didn't have to look at the entry device once you became proficient with Grafitti.

I thought they would improve the technology, but they only left behind all the reasons it worked - the only improvement over the basic PDA would be a PDA phone, but Treo replaced Grafitti with tiny keyboards that only insure you will NEVER be able to enter data without looking at the device. Palm stop developing working Mac syncing tools (I've had to retire my Palm because their software will no longer support the serial models) and the current palms are over priced and don't have any essential features that the original models had. I don't need color, I don't need cameras, I don't need movies!

The PDA market has died because they are providing products no one wants or needs. Give us a cell phone with bluetooth and graphical data entry - That is a tool we could actually use.

Voice memos? Please! Like I'm going to transcribe voice memos when I get back to my computer... Scroll wheel entry? Why not just shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails while you're at it. ;)

Except for the crack about color (I do like a nice, crisp hi-res color look—so I'm vain, so shoot me :p ) I completely agree. I don't need a built-in camera, I don't need an mp3 player (I have an iPod for that), I need a PDA smartphone that lets me enter data the way God intended: with a stick in my hand, scratching letters.

The day I see a Treo with stylus support and without the moronic thumbboard is the day I buy my next PDA.

[Stella]

Did you ever see the Psion 5 keyboard? - unless you had large hands you could touch type very easily.. of course, if you had giants hands - which I know some people have, then yes, the keys were too small :-D

The Screen resolution was something like 640x320 too... good large screen.. the word processing app was good.. word compatible - you could insert graphics, spreadsheets etc etc.

I have yet to see better shipped software on a PDA that came with the Psion - superb.

Picture of the original Psion 5:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/psion/psion5_big.jpg


I will never EVER prefer thumbtyping with dinky buttons to a stylus for data entry. Give me the stylus, the original method of data entry since time immemorial (handwriting).

And give me screen real estate. No one in their right mind would use their PDA for daily word processing needs, but it comes in very handy when you're on the go and either don't have your notebook computer or it's too much trouble to get it out. Additionally, I use the big screen for reading. My PDA has a very good dictionary and language translator on it. I can't imagine how unbearable it would be trying to use those apps on a wee phone. :rolleyes:

[Awimoway]

Did you ever see the Psion 5 keyboard? - unless you had large hands you could touch type very easily.. of course, if you had giants hands - which I know some people have, then yes, the keys were too small :-D

The Screen resolution was something like 640x320 too... good large screen.. the word processing app was good.. word compatible - you could insert graphics, spreadsheets etc etc.

I have yet to see better shipped software on a PDA that came with the Psion - superb.

Picture of the original Psion 5:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/psion/psion5_big.jpg

I don't want to have to type while holding something. You would have to cradle that bad boy under your fingers and type with only your thumbs. That sucker practically needs a lap to put it on (not to mention that it looks great—for 1992).

And by the way, your loyalty to your P900 is admirable. It's a pretty nice device and very close to what I want (though because it's Symbian I assume third-party apps are scarce), but coming in at the low, low price of $800 is just not what I would call enticing.

[xy14]

People, this is actually great news! Apple has been fighting against Sony for a while, with the latest being the Sony Music Store. Now that Sony is halting future sales, Apple can add some PDA functions into the iPod, or maybe even offer a Palm OS version of the iPod. Although I hate PDAs and I don't know why anyone would need one, Apple should start making PDAs and possibly gain popularity from them and people might start getting Apple products and then Apple will have the market share and hopefully some day Microsoft will go bankrupt.

[Jimong5]

Most people are missing the point here. The main reason Sony really failed was because they offered an expensive, inferior product. Like Apple, they felt they could charge more just for the brand name. Now apple can get away with it. However, When I went to buy my Zire 71, I looked at the sony, and put it beck, mainly because it offered no more then the Zire or Tungsten E, yet the price tag had a $100 Premium. Another issue is Sony's lack of low end Zire type models. If sony had a low end and better pricing, they may have had better luck.

[Stella]

Ah, but you don't have to - you can put it on a table just like a laptop! :-)

Thanks for the loyality compliant ;-) And no, Symbian applications are not scarse.. quite the opposite.
I don't want to have to type while holding something. You would have to cradle that bad boy under your fingers and type with only your thumbs. That sucker practically needs a lap to put it on (not to mention that it looks great—for 1992).

And by the way, your loyalty to your P900 is admirable. It's a pretty nice device and very close to what I want (though because it's Symbian I assume third-party apps are scarce), but coming in at the low, low price of $800 is just not what I would call enticing.

[BobVB]

its called SonyEricsson P900...
supports BT, graphical data entry - excellent, excellent handwriting recongition - uses natural handwriting - not like Palm grafitti.. oh, and can do voice recordings too ( and video )...

I guess I was thinking of Palm - I have dozens of Palm applications that I use(d) on a regular basis, ones I doubt will ever show up on a P900. I had databases that sync with their Filemaker counterparts, I had dozens of Palm Reader books I would read when in waiting places. I did go look at the P900 and if it were Palm OS, I'd get it in a heart beat. But the review never mentioned what 3rd party (if any) products are available for it.

I guess my real gripe is that Palm never got their act together after such a good start. Where is the Palm OS phone like the P900? Not the treo's that's for sure.

[davetrow1997]

wow. that's a surprise to see that they're shutting down the Clie, and they just released that new model not so long ago...

oh well, when you've got a 10" sub-notebook who needs a PDA? :D

I can't carry around even a sub-10" laptop in my coat pocket.. when I need access to data at a patient's bedside.. reference ranges, drug information, medical calculators, etc... I need a PDA. No replacement... I used to have to carry enough books around in my pocket to give me a hernia.

[jtfaria]

Why not just build an iPod mini INTO a cel phone? The mini is already smaller than a cel. A good fraction of it consists of a battery and display panel, which a cel phone needs ANYWAY. Basically you're adding the software, a tiny hard drive and a processor to the mix.

Since the thing you've built is a cel phone, it has voice input AND 'net access. Therefore: you could, with the right software, have access to your .mac data via your cel (at last, a truly compelling reason for .mac). This could include your address book.

Possibly the phone could have voice recognition as well, to add new entries. These could be transmitted to your .mac database, where they also could be tweaked later if not exactly right.

You might also update your music on the fly, using a similar method.

I know, I know. Battery life. But if that's the ONLY problem - again, why not?

[JrbM689]

Solution? VOICE MEMOS! That's the easiest possible form of input--easier and faster than keyboard or stylus even. And it doesn't change the iPod's simplicity--IF they build it in rather than requiring an add-on pod. Please!

There's always a compromise--in the case of voice memos, you must re-enter the data on your computer when you get home.

You know how MS Word Mac 2004 has built-in Voice Memo support? Well, an iPod could be used to take voice notes on the spot and then later imported into your Microsoft Word document when you sync the iPod with your Mac at home!

[JrbM689]

i think they are going about them all wrong, pda's need to simplify. they don't need digital camera's they don't even need gobs of memory to put music or videos on. they should replace the memo pad, in which what they do need is good screens, good text recognition. good organized contact and memo and draw functions.

Hmm, sounds like something I know... now what was that device called that kicked off the whole PDA industry??? OH YEA, Apple's Newton!

[Abstract]

The Newton didn't include the technology because it wasn't around back then...

And they make PDAs with only the basic functions. Look for the low-end models. Some of you that are whining may have missed those...

[fpnc]

Why not just build an iPod mini INTO a cel phone? The mini is already smaller than a cel. A good fraction of it consists of a battery and display panel, which a cel phone needs ANYWAY. Basically you're adding the software, a tiny hard drive and a processor to the mix...

You have a point here. Problem is that it is likely to go the other way. Smart phones will probably replace the iPod or at least begin to take sales directly away from the iPod. How quickly or how soon this will happen may be somewhat uncertain. But eventually I suspect that most people will end up carrying a smart phone that acts as a mobile communications device, a PDA, a camera, and a music playback device. It won't do all of those functions as well as a dedicated set of devices. But I expect that most people will prefer the convenience of carrying a single device.

Of course, enhanced smart phones do leave room for a very small and inexpensive music playback device. But, obviously, that is not the iPod of today.

[BobVB]

And they make PDAs with only the basic functions. Look for the low-end models. Some of you that are whining may have missed those...

I missed the one with Bluetooth. And we already have ones with the basics, there's no need to buy new ones without needed features.

What you have missed is they could have been making new ones with all the basics and those that actually work within the PDA paradigm. Palm didn't and has paid the price.

[Abstract]

Well people keep complaining that the camera, mp3 player, movie player, etc, are novelties that aren't necessary and only add to clutter. What I'm saying is that the basic, cheaper PDAs offer the basic functions without any of the BS functions. Sure, some people may already have these models, but then why do people say they're looking for a simple PDA, and want to keep using their iPods for music, and their mobiles for phone use?

If what you mean is that they should build a simple, easy to use, handwriting recognition capable PDA with only the basic apps and functions (no multimedia, no camera, no phone), plus bluetooth and Wifi, then I guess I agree with you. After giving it some thought, i can't think of a simple PDA with bluetooth and WiFi. Most PDA's that come with features like BT and WiFi come with unnecessary features and such. If Apple can deliver a basic PDA with BT and WiFi, and their own OS, or using Palm's OS, then that's cool.

[iLilana]

they are killing the clie because of the PSP.

[Awimoway]

Ah, but you don't have to - you can put it on a table just like a laptop! :-)

And why wouldn't I be better off just getting a 12" PowerBook? There's a reason they call them "handheld" — you should be able to whip it out wherever you are, sitting or standing, and make a quick note. So, to reiterate, thumbs alone are not an efficent, practical way to enter data on a handheld device.

Thanks for the loyality compliant ;-) And no, Symbian applications are not scarse.. quite the opposite.

You certainly are loyalty-compliant. ;) But you've intrigued me, as well. Could you refer me to some links where I can browse Symbian apps? Thanks in advance.

[Torajima]

Most people are missing the point here. The main reason Sony really failed was because they offered an expensive, inferior product.

Inferior? I don't think so... Sony brought an awful lot to the Palm platform. High-res graphics, upgraded Applications, built-in cameras, virtual graffiti, built-in Wifi and Bluetooth, etc.

I personally didn't buy a Clie because I didn't care for the rocker style buttons on the cheap models, and the more expensive models were just too big. But man, did they have beautiful screens.

And I do know people who chose the cheap Clie's over Palm's offerings because they were cheaper... at least for what you were getting.

No, I think the reason Sony failed is the same reason Atari failed back in the 80's... too many damn models, released to closely together... it confuses the customers, and pisses off retailers. I mean really, there was a new Clie model coming out every 3 months... ridiculous.

[gregorypierce]

The only device I plan on using is one that has a 1.x+ megapixel camera, symbian, palm or windows OS, a touch screen, and a keyboard. Sony's upcoming S700 is a GREAT device. If it had a keyboard as opposed to just a numeric keypad it would be the perfect device.

As it is now the choices are pretty much the Samsung i700 which isn't Mac compatible, the Treo 600 which doesn't have bluetooth so isn't mac compatible either, and the Sony P900 which is an uber device but on the large and painfully expensive side. I'm waiting for a revision of all of these devices to see how they shape up given that the PDA market is and will remain dead.

I talked to people at a seminar on developing for the wireless market a few months back and expressed that convergence devices would replace stand alone PDAs and many people were very skeptical, but smartphones are here to stay and as the popularity of devices like the Nokia 3650 showed - people want that functionality with them and are willing to pay for it.

[gregorypierce]

they are killing the clie because of the PSP.

Last I checked the PSP didn't have a keyboard, PDA functions, a camera, or the ability for independent developers to CHEAPLY develop applications for it. ;)

[dopefiend]

This is where the future of PDA's is going.............

http://www.indystar.com/images/pics2/image-149758-1706.jpg

So Im going through my regular routine news checking and I saw this thing on news.cnet.com

God...I want it so bad :eek:

Next toy on the list of things I don't need, but will waste money on!

http://news.com.com/1606-2-5222650.html