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Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 12:21 PM
I had the misfortune to purchase an Apogee Duet. Google, or search these forums, for "Apogee Duet Noise" or "Apogee Duet Hiss" to read about the problems I and so many others have had with this unit's self-noise when recording. Easily the VERY WORST AUDIO INTERFACE I have ever encountered.

I also discovered, in my misadventures with this unit and the company that makes it, that their "maestro" software makes surreptitious network calls over my internet connection, without my permission or knowledge.

using Little Snitch, I saw that the "maestro" software phones home everytime it starts up. And since by default it starts up everytime you boot your machine, that means it is phoning home every time you boot up. Really annoying.

Personally, I will no longer be doing any business with this company, other than trying to recover the $500 I threw down the toilet on the Apogee Duet. In my opinion, Apogee is a very shady company, who makes defective products and doesn't fix them.



Drumjim85
Jul 7, 2009, 12:29 PM
Apogee may make shaddy consumer products, but PLEASE don't tie that in with their pro line up.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 12:50 PM
I have no idea if that's true or not. I know they are very well hyped by certain people. I have no idea if there is a monetary arrangement for that hype or not. I just know what I experienced, which is that the Apogee Duet is the single worst audio interface I have ever used, and it phones home without user knowledge or permission.

Actually, I should clarify that: It is not the Apogee Duet that phones home, it is the "Maestro" software driver that phones home.

I believe this is the same software used to drive their higher-cost products(?)

BTW, though you suggest the Duet is "low-end", it is the single most expensive two-channel interface available.

Drumjim85
Jul 7, 2009, 12:57 PM
Actually, I should clarify that: It is not the Apogee Duet that phones home, it is the "Maestro" software driver that phones home.

I believe this is the same software used to drive their higher-cost products(?)

BTW, though you suggest the Duet is "low-end", it is the single most expensive two-channel interface available.

a lot of their products don't (have to) tie in to any software at all, the big ben, the X-series, Rosetta series. ... and i never said low-end, i said consumer. I don't think you'll see many/any professional studios using the Duet.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 01:06 PM
Does the Maestro software have an "update" feature in the preferences section?

Luap
Jul 7, 2009, 01:32 PM
A lot of apps and utilities phone home. Honestly, so what? You talk about it like you caught it sending your banking details to random people on the internet or something.. As has been mentioned, it's likely checking for updates. WhoopteeDoo!
As for hiss & noise or whatever.. I've experienced precisely none of that. If something is wrong with yours. Return it. Get it fixed. Thats what warranties and support is for. Apogee support is apparently quite good. But I wouldn't know for sure as i've never had to use it.

It's like "Logic Pro" and his self invented followers all over again.. :rolleyes:

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 01:36 PM
Obviously, you won't see the Duet in a professional studio. However, you will see studio professionals using it as a decent portable device to record on when they are on the road, or not in the studio.

Regarding the update feature on maestro software, I am not in front of it now to verify that. However, I do know that EVERY SINGLE TIME I BOOT MY MACHINE, the app calls home.

I also know that, though more recent versions of the software existed, the app phoned home and DID NOT suggest that I update anything - again, even though there were more recent versions of the app available.

So if you are trying to suggest that Apogee's "maestro" software is phoning home to look for updates, I have disproven that.

There must be some other reason it is phoning home every time I boot my machine, because it is not looking for updates.

I'll packet sniff it sometime, if I have the time or motivation to waste more time screwing aroudn with Apogee and their defective sneaky products.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 01:41 PM
The Maestro software is linked to the Duet so I have a very hard time believing that Apogee is up to no good here.

Looking at how they manage their updates it appears that you have to navigate to their website to download newer version. If there is an alert
that new software is available from within Maestro that in itself would cause a trigger in Lil Snitch.

I've read about some Apogee Duets with noise issues but mostly I've not read any problems. Could be a faulty batch.

Drumjim85
Jul 7, 2009, 02:00 PM
It's like "Logic Pro" and his self invented followers all over again.. :rolleyes:

haha, oh the day's of LogicPro....

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 02:09 PM
More than likely, the "maestro" software is doing the same thing that Adobe did (does?) with Photoshop and other CS apps - they phone a marketing company, that keeps track of the originating IP, and coordinates that information with other occurrences of your IP, as gained, for example, through Adobe's Flash cookies (aka "shared objects).

If you want more information on this, google "photohsop phones home". There was a big scandal about it, around a year ago. Unbeknownst to users, Adobe was aggregating information on users through a third party marketing company, and they disguised their network call as a local network call to make it look like they weren't phoning home.

Personally, I don't want this information about me being tracked. I realize there are naive dummies who don't care that their privacy is invaded, but they will wake up some day.

BTW, it's not a "faulty batch" of Duets. This problem has been occurring for a long time, as you can see by googling "Apogee Duet Hiss" or "Apogee Duet Noise".

I just bought this thing in December of last year. Worst $500 I ever spent. It's a $500 paperweight, as far as I'm concerned.

The Maestro software is linked to the Duet so I have a very hard time believing that Apogee is up to no good here.



Why does the fact that the maestro software is linked to the Duet indicate that Apogee is, or is not, "up to no good"?

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 02:23 PM
Why does the fact that the maestro software is linked to the Duet indicate that Apogee is, or is not, "up to no good"?

What else are you going to use the Maestro software with? With any allegation of potential wrong doing there has to be a plausible motive here for Apogee sending information "home"

If there are relatively few ways to abuse the hardware or software from Apogee then what incentive do they have to phone home unless it is in your favor?

Luap
Jul 7, 2009, 02:32 PM
Something smells..

http://homepage.mac.com/luapy/bullex.gif

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 03:18 PM
What else are you going to use the Maestro software with? With any allegation of potential wrong doing there has to be a plausible motive here for Apogee sending information "home"

If there are relatively few ways to abuse the hardware or software from Apogee then what incentive do they have to phone home unless it is in your favor?


I don't see any logic whatsoever in your contention. I don't see how the fact that the "maestro" software is used for the Duet has any bearing whatsoever on whether Apogee is - or is not - up to no good.

I'm not accusing them of "being up to no good". I am simply stating that their software phones home, using my internet connection, without my knowledge or permission. That is a fact.

And any user who does not have Little Snitch or some similar program installed would not know of this network activity.

Something smells..

http://homepage.mac.com/luapy/bullex.gif

Yeah, I think it's your breath.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 03:24 PM
I don't see any logic whatsoever in your contention. I don't see how the fact that the "maestro" software is used for the Duet has any bearing whatsoever on whether Apogee is - or is not - up to no good.

I'm not accusing them of "being up to no good". I am simply stating that their software phones home, using my internet connection, without my knowledge or permission. That is a fact.

And any user who does not have Little Snitch or some similar program installed would not know of this network activity.

Nor would they care unless the access home sent private information. You haven't proven a motive for the "phoning home" so we can't ascertain whether it's good or not. You installing the software and hardware implicitly gives them permission.

The problem with Lil Snitch is that it causes paranoia in people who should not be paranoid (present company excluded here). Phone home is not a necessary evil nor is it necessary beneficial so until we know why Apogee does it, it's hard to think of it as positive or negative.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 03:27 PM
Nor would they care unless the access home sent private information. You haven't proven a motive for the "phoning home" so we can't ascertain whether it's good or not.

Precisely. I never assigned a motive to it, I just pointed out the fact that it occurs.



You installing the software and hardware implicitly gives them permission.

No it doesn't.



The problem with Lil Snitch is that it causes paranoia in people who should not be paranoid (present company excluded here). Phone home is not a necessary evil nor is it necessary beneficial so until we know why Apogee does it, it's hard to think of it as positive or negative.

The fact that they use my internet connection to make network calls to some unknown and undocumented place is problematic for me, and for many other people.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 03:30 PM
Precisely. I never assigned a motive to it, I just pointed out the fact that it occurs.

No it doesn't.

The fact that they use my internet connection to make network calls to some unknown and undocumented place is problematic for me, and for many other people.

Yup...phoning home is a touchy subject
Depends on the EULA though you have a right to privacy.
Agreed...Id want to know the Apogee policy on what data is requested and sent.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 03:38 PM
The bottom line is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for AUDIO INTERFACES AND THEIR SOFTWARE to be phoning home surreptitiously.

None of my other audio hw/sw products do that. As far as the functionality of the device is concerned, there is no reason for making network calls, and companies should be upfront about what they are doing with users' internet connections.

Adobe CS and Photoshop made surreptitious calls to a third-party data aggregator, sending personal user information, PURPOSELY DISGUISED to look like a local network call. I don't want this, and don't need it, and I don't want to hear naive dummies going on about how wonderful it is that software companies use your own internet connection to send personal data about you to sleazy marketing companies without your knowledge or permission.

As I mentioned, you can google "photoshop phones home" to find out about the scandal that erupted over this, and all the data that the sleazy third-party data aggregator was collecting on unsuspecting users.

Personally, I stopped buying any Adobe software after this scandal, and the scandal around Flash cookies - aka "shared objects". The functionality of Adobe apps is pretty much covered by free/open source software now, so there is really no reason to spend all that money and have your privacy invaded.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 03:41 PM
I do not concur sir.

The pro audio industry is ravaged with piracy. Unfortunately some developers have had to institute some sort of check to make sure that
their software isn't being unlawfully used.

I belive Apogee should offer full disclosure regarding the nature of Maestro phoning home.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 03:48 PM
I do not concur sir.

The pro audio industry is ravaged with piracy. Unfortunately some developers have had to institute some sort of check to make sure that
their software isn't being unlawfully used.

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that audio interface driver software is experiencing ANY problems with "piracy", especially considering that the software is available AS A FREE DOWNLOAD FROM THE COMPANY'S SITE. So trying to say that Apogee is worried about people pirating their software is pretty ridiculous.

I don't suppose you were on the debate team in high school, were you?

And Adobe's use of purposely disguised network calls had NOTHING to do with piracy. It was discovered that personal information on users was being sent to a third-party marketing firm - nothing to do with piracy. You keep trying one strawman argument after another to apologize for this, but it's not working.

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 03:53 PM
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that audio interface driver software is experiencing ANY problems with "piracy", especially considering that the software is available AS A FREE DOWNLOAD FROM THE COMPANY'S SITE. So trying to say that Apogee is worried about people pirating their software is pretty ridiculous.

I don't suppose you were on the debate team in high school, were you?

And Adobe's use of purposely disguised network calls had NOTHING to do with piracy. It was discovered that personal information on users was being sent to a third-party marketing firm - nothing to do with piracy. You keep trying one strawman argument after another to apologize for this, but it's not working.

Nope but I do give you credit for using a form of "surreptitious". You must have been advanced English

Yeah I remember the Adobe stuff. I'm really on your side. I rarely think it's good for developers to phone home unless it's a checking for new software updates. I'm sure many developers will disagree but the idea is to keep your "paying" customers happy. You make a great point about Maestro being free which piques my interest about why they have the app phoning home. Perhaps I'll bug the Apogee guys that hang out on gearslutz and get their thoughts on this.

More worrisome is the noise you're getting. I want a Duet someday but I want it to be Apogee quality.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 04:01 PM
Nope but I do give you credit for using a form of "surreptitious". You must have been advanced English

"A form of surreptitious"? There is only one "form" of surreptitious that I am aware of, namely, the correct spelling and usage with which I wrote it.

I think I learned that word sometime around junior high, if I'm not mistaken. I notice though that your writing is filled with incomplete sentences, misspellings, misused words, and misapplied logic that doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you think about it for longer than 3 seconds.

Maybe a few too many brewskys with your cat?

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 04:13 PM
"A form of surreptitious"? There is only one "form" of surreptitious that I am aware of, namely, the correct spelling and usage with which I wrote it.

I think I learned that word sometime around junior high, if I'm not mistaken. I notice though that your writing is filled with incomplete sentences, misspellings, misused words, and misapplied logic that doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you think about it for longer than 3 seconds.

Maybe a few too many brewskys with your cat?

No, and though you get high marks for punctuation, you know nothing about logic as your entire thread is rife with nonsensical whining about what is or isn't appropriate with regards to "phoning home".

Perhaps i'm just tired and in need of coffee but this thread doesn't hit the threshold of me caring about fixing my typos or explaining how things are outside of little Tommy's skull and in the real world.

You purchases the Duet, you installed the software. If you don't like the Apogee Duet or how it functions simply box it up and return it or put it on eBay. Doesn't take an English major to understand 'dem options.

Thomas2222
Jul 7, 2009, 05:08 PM
I think you're nuts, and, obviously, incapable of coherent thinking or writing. You should seriously consider giving up your alcohol habit, because, like so many other drunks I know, it's turned you into a blithering idiot.

Dale Campbell
Jul 7, 2009, 05:11 PM
Just thought I would chip in to give this thread some more opinions...

I Really like my Duet.

I come from a pro audio setting, my larger setups in brief have involved RADAR recorders, soundtracs desks, and a host of other equipment.

In my opinion the apogee is a fantastic unit, I have had no problems with it being noisy and have found the quality of the internal preamps to be very good and fairly transparent. It also has worked well with external mic preamps.

The only issue I have had is not really an apogee issue but when hooked up through a TC powercore sometimes they don't 'get on' but I feel thats more a firewire buss and TC powercore issue.

The unit has been used for demanding quiet acoustic music recorded M&S with a ribbon mic and condensor. The ribbon required plenty of gain which was not a problem and gave a clean sound.
In other situations I have used it for vocal over dubs and solo piano recordings all of which it managed with no fuss.

Not 100% on your setup, have you check all your gain structure, what flavours of mic are you using, are all your XLR cables in tip top condition, are you having trouble with the instrument inputs? are you outputting to powered speakers or an amp?

nuckinfutz
Jul 7, 2009, 05:46 PM
I think you're nuts, and, obviously, incapable of coherent thinking or writing. You should seriously consider giving up your alcohol habit, because, like so many other drunks I know, it's turned you into a blithering idiot.

So says the guy who creates a whiny post about noticing his freaking audio interface is phoning home and interrupting his "jerking off to Lil Snitch" session.

You win...as nerdy as I try to be, I'll never match the abject lameness you deliver in your comebacks. Somebody download Lil Snitch for me and pass the lubricant LOL.

You are seriously a future "mail order bride" candidate. :p

Don't turn this into something personal Tommy, focus on the topic at hand and stop attacking people for having a differing viewpoints. We can't all be uber hip English majors with vocab skillz dood.