Sony and McDonald's

[MacRumors]

CNet confirms (http://news.com.com/McDonald's:+Would+you+like+a+song+with+that%3F/2100-1027_3-5225854.html) previous reports that Sony and McDonald's are teaming up to offer free music downloads through Sony's new music service.

McDonald's was originally rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031106102327.shtml) to go with Apple's iTunes service in a similar deal, but reportedly switched plans (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040322114721.shtml) at the last minute.

[Calvinatir]

Jumpin on the bandwagon!

[virividox]

grrr mcdonalds sucks!!!
hehe

anyway apple probably woudlnt wanna be associate with them after that documentary supersize me.

i doubt sony connect will make a big splash, lets hope apple teams up with someone else tho before its too late

[JoeMacDaddy]

This may not get as much traction as they plan but then again, their other promotions with Disney, etc. do well. Sony songs in your adult happy meal.

[realityisterror]

i don't go to mcdonalds anyway! (blows raspberry) so there!!!

now if apple would team up with burger king... i could get some free songs! :p

reality

[macridah]

There is no one Sony could partner up with to make their connect music download service become a success. There must be VP in Sony that slept with another VP in Mcdonald's to make this deal happen.

I just can't imagine anyone saying "Yeah, this sony partnership is gold ...it's win win ... i'm lovin' it"

[Dahl]

i don't go to mcdonalds anyway! (blows raspberry) so there!!!

now if apple would team up with burger king... i could get some free songs! :p

reality
Burger King is worse...
Anyways... Let them all rot.

Hail iTunes... :D

[jwhitnah]

I think Sony is on the wrong end of the mp3 'wave.' Their music store layout is not well done, and they are very late to market with a quality mp3 device. People who have already bought players won't be able to use their store. They do have access to some music. They are doomed and should just give it up now.

[Rocketman]

CNet confirms (http://news.com.com/McDonald's:+Would+you+like+a+song+with+that%3F/2100-1027_3-5225854.html) previous reports that Sony and McDonald's are teaming up to offer free music downloads through Sony's new music service.

McDonald's was originally rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031106102327.shtml) to go with Apple's iTunes service in a similar deal, but reportedly switched plans (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040322114721.shtml) at the last minute.

That has to be a Steve Jobs pisser. I wonder if all their competitors will be getting mindshare in upcominig Pixar movies.

And jokes about standing in line at the arches while waiting for EVERY guy in front of you to get their entire order fulfillled, not merely taken before you can even order :)

Hi Steve!

Rocketman

Eat at BK and Carl's.

[applemacdude]

Damn Sony is gonna gain some marketshare cuz of this...

[Kid Red]

K, so because the deal is off for some time now, how is this related to Apple and or Apple rumors?

[nifty]

Oh yeah, that documentary where the Morgan Spurlock deliberty overate using McDonalds food, and then blamed McDonalds for his (unsurprising) dramatic weight gain.

Maria Bartiromo interviewed that hack and informed him that there were no combinations of McDonald's food available on their menu that would result in the 5000+ calories that he was injesting each day, and that he must have been seriously padding his diet with amounts of food that no human would eat normally.

Some "documentary."

I think I'll wait for Soso Wiley's documentary to come out. She went on a McDonalds-only diet (with normal, 3-meals-a-day caloric intake) and *lost* 10 pounts.

Eat sensibly and exercise, and you can even lose weight as a die-hard McDonnalds fan.

grrr mcdonalds sucks!!!
hehe

anyway apple probably woudlnt wanna be associate with them after that documentary supersize me.

i doubt sony connect will make a big splash, lets hope apple teams up with someone else tho before its too lateMcDonalds McDonalds McDonalds

[aethier]

I am 16 and work at mcdonalds. as employes we have already been told about the promotion which starts on june the 8th. what surprises me, is that i am in canada, and sony isn't just doing it in the US, which is nice, because pepsi/itunes was US only. anyways, i can also tell that the songs are only with BigMacs, it comes on the box (we were advised not to steal bigmac boxes as they cost 1 dollar now, instead of 10 cents.) i believe it ends middle of august. I'm think i will use it though, it is availuble in canada, so thats good enough for me (and as an employe we alwasy get new products for free).. anyways there ends my insider info

aethier

[weev]

Apple should seek business alliances with ethical corporations. Falling out with maccas is good, really.

We don't want a modern and innovative technology company associated with the appalling products Macdonalds produce.

Btw, Suzersize Me is a good movie!

One day there will be NO more Macdonalds and the worlds will be better for it.

Now, about Pepsi...... :p

[codycartoon]

phew! I really hoped that mac wouldn't get involved with Mcdonalds.

I know as a company that you want to generate as many sales as possible, but would the typical Mcdonalds customer base really be interested in Apple Computers?

Why would Apple want an association with a company who makes cheap, poor grade, mass produced food?

I am very pleased that this deal didn't go through.

-cody

[weev]

I think I'll wait for Soso Wiley's documentary to come out. She went on a McDonalds-only diet (with normal, 3-meals-a-day caloric intake) and *lost* 10 pounts.

Eat sensibly and exercise, and you can even lose weight as a die-hard McDonnalds fan.

McDonalds McDonalds McDonalds


Heh, what's the name of that documentary? I'd like to see it. So perhaps all those fat kids aren't really fat, and that bloated and sick feeling I have after eating Macdonald's high-sugar and fat junk food is really just in my head.

Thank you.

[Freg3000]

Apple should seek business alliances with ethical corporations. Falling out with maccas is good, really.

phew! I really hoped that mac wouldn't get involved with Mcdonalds.

God forbid a few years down the road, the iTMS fails due to a lack of marketshare, or for some reason the iPod loses it #1 spot atop the mp3 player market, I will look back on these type of statements and think about what could have been.

For the first time in a very long time, Apple is the dominant player in a market. For now, because of their dominance, they can have the iTMS play nice only with the iPod, and the iPod only play nice with the iTMS.

I say, if they want to do this (and not open up to other players or stores) they must work proactively to get their products as the de facto standard. You may think they already are, but they are not there yet.

Just think, Pepsi - iTunes saw 5 million redemptions; McDonald's is offering 1 billion. With a simple extrapolation, they will see 50 million redeemed. Adjust for the fact that McDonalds has a lot more exposure than Pepsi, add a a bunch more songs onto that. What do you get....?

Close to 70 million maybe? Sound familiar? (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/apr/28itunes.html)

I want the iTMS to be an overwhelming success. I want the iPod to be the best music player for the rest of eternity. It is not going to happen if Apple does not promote their product, and then we, as the Mac community, sit back and go, "Gee, I don't like McDonalds anyway, I am glad the deal didn't go through," or "McDonalds inhumanely slaughters thousands of cows for their hamburgers, and Apple should not associate with them."

And then to hear some people assert that partnering with a company like McDonalds may hurt sales because it would reflect negatively on Apple??? Are you kidding me?!?!?!?

This is Business! I would bet my life that the overwhelming majority of people don't give a hoot about the "negative image" of these mega-coporations, and even if they did, most of them are not going to refrain from getting free music because of it.

It is nice to be supportive of companies that share similar values, but that is not my primary concern, nor should it be for Apple. In 5 years from now, if we are all sitting around with hundreds of Protected AAC files and no where but the iPod to play them, and with a Microsoft music store engulfing all the competition, I will look back to statements like I originally quoted and remember the contributing factors to how we got there.

If you disagree, please respond respectfully and with dignity. I am sure many will not agree with my position, but do so in a way so that this does not because a screaming match. :D

[ifjake]

yeah the pepsi iTunes promotion didn't go as well as expected. i remember when the deal was first announced by Jobs i was saying i was going to be buying a lot more pepsis. but i just... didn't. i don't know why. wonder if that had anything to do with McDonald's last minute switch. but i think Sony and their store won't be anywhere near a threat until they come out with the PSP. but that's going to be at least a year. we'll see.

[dermeister]

Exactly what i was thinking. Something like this could banalize everything Apple has acheived in months... The exposure on this is HUGE. I think the problem might have been that McDonalds only carried Coca-Cola products, and they were with Pepsi... Problem is, letting Sony catch this is a horrendous mistake, nevermind people saying "Ohh, I'm glad Apple is not associating with such filth"... Freg3000 sum it up well: you may be happy, but letting this go was a horibble BUSINESS DECISION by Apple. With market dominance in a future multi-billion dollar industry, Apple shouldn't play picky. Oh well, maybe the Sony promo won't do well... But thats more optimistic than it is safe.

[nuckinfutz]

Perception is reality

Teaming up with MacDonalds right now is the worst thing Apple could have done. Supersizeme might not be %100 factual but it's close enough to make people leary about stuffing big macs down their face to get music.

Besides with Apples free downloads every week I'm feeling quite daft about sucking up so much pepsi and sierra mist in the first place.

[swajames]

Freg3000 summed this up perfectly. It's all about mindshare and marketshare and the only way Apple is going to maintain the current momentum is by partnering up with businesses that spend a LOT more on marketing and promotion and are better at it than Apple. Whatever your views on McDonalds, they market and promote the hell out of things and this partnership would have made a significant impact on iTMS sales numbers. And, as I understand it, McDonalds and not Apple pulled the plug on this one...... I can only see this as a negative.

[jouster]

Oh yeah, that documentary where the Morgan Spurlock deliberty overate using McDonalds food, and then blamed McDonalds for his (unsurprising) dramatic weight gain.

[....]

Some "documentary."
nsibly and exercise, and you can even lose weight as a die-hard McDonnalds fan.



I just saw "Supersize Me" - it's hilarious and frightening at the same time.

Since you seem to be a McD defender, to what would you ascribe the epidemic of obesity currently sweeping the US and Europe? Too much salad? Too many fresh vegetables?

[Maxx Power]

You get what you paid for. Back in the day people thought it was a big bargain to pay 100 dollars to go to an Elton John concert for serious entertainment. Today, at little or no cost, good artists have no where to survive, we're never gonna find the next Bob Dylan or Mozart. At these cheap cheap prices, the only artists are going to be the popular music artists who thrive off the corporate marketing funds and produce crap. Cheaper music literally means cheaper music. After all, we can download them for free from a dozen avaliable services provided you have internet, who needs to pay 18.98 for an album featuring some guy put together some rhythms on a computer and adding a few non-sensical or rebellious in a conformist kind of way lyrics when you can do this yourself on GarageBand or Cakewalk with a midi controller or any music production software and recording device ?

Records by the likes of Miles Davis, Elton John, Glenn Gould, and compositions by classical legends produced by well known pianists or orchestras like Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, etc have high retail prices, infact they do not ever come down in price because record companies know that people will pay good money for something insatiable. But on the other hand, for money incentive driven music, musicians don't care about improving the music, but rather focuses on how to market themselves or present themselves to sell more of the same thing.

True art includes some music, but not every thing, especially not what you hear on the radio, not even close. Corporate approved musicians and radio stations are the lowest common denominators. The music industry is losing sales because their strategy to maximize profit driven by capitalistic greed pushes the true talents away from the public, they don't want anything provoking, anything that gets you to think, they don't want the next Picasso or Donatello, they want the next Br*tney Spea*rs, everyone to be normalized to mind-numbing music.

You will not find true art under the bottle cap of some pepsi, nor at McDonalds, true art will remain where they have always been, in the minds and hands of truly artistic, creative, and altruistic people, far far away from this corporate land of ours.

[heyriddle]

Would you like a crappy Windows Media File to go with your crappy burger?

[0 and A ai]

I work at a magazine where mcdonalds advertises already seen the print ads for the promo two weeks ago

[KC9AIC]

Would you like a crappy Windows Media File to go with your crappy burger?

I'm pretty sure Sony doesn't use wma. It's their own proprietary ATRAC format, which works only with their players.

[tychay]

Damn Sony is gonna gain some marketshare cuz of this...

Well, this is true since Sony has 0% marketshare.

Given its use of ATRAC-3, severe DRM, universally-panned UI, I don't think Apple sees this as a threat. Sony Connect (http://www.connect.com/) is the weakest link in Sony's offering (computer software, music player, and music download): and that's saying a lot when you consider Sony's legendarily bad software and the fact that Sony/Columbia forced Sony Electronics to use flash memory and ATRAC for much too long.

Notice how long it took for Sony to come out with a hard drive player that plays MP3s (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/27/sony_mp3_vid_player/)--not even out yet and very pricey. It doesn't even work with Sony Connect. Sony is running around with their head cut off right now--and Sony isn't Microsoft--they're not managed well enough to turn on a dime. A pity since I like Sony stuff.

It won't be forever, I suspect that Sony didn't really see this as a threat until they iPod Mini. Sure the iPod sales were high, but when the Mini sold like gangbusters when everyone (including Apple by the looks of it) predicted it would do just okay: something crossed the line.

Since Sony all-but-killed off their Palm compatible line (http://www.brighthand.com/article/sayonara_clie), there is some marshalling of forces. But so far, it's been spitballs. I'd be much more worried about Microsoft's entry especially with the new Media Player which they will no doubt bundle with XP Reloaded (which Microsoft may have to give away for free just to plug some the holes in their support/security process).

Not that it'll be any better than an iPod. But then again, when has better won?

OT
I haven't seen SuperSize Me (http://www.supersizeme.com/), but it is reasonable to expect that someone eating three square + supersizing whenever offered is going to gain weight and become unhealthy. According to McDonald's own website (http://app.mcdonalds.com/countries/usa/food/nutrition/mcmeal/bagmeal.jsp), the value meal needed to get a free song from Sony would run about 1150 calories (assuming coke), have 50g of fat. I can't get the numbers for supersize but I expect it to be much worse, add in a Double Quarter Pounder sometimes or their Egg McMuffins (basically your daily intake of fat right there) and there is simply no way you can lose weight. So please, do a little research before you take the contrary position.

McDonald's has posted this nutritional information in their stores since the 80's. I've always known this even though I'm slight build and eat at McDonald's in spite of having read Fast Food Nation (much to the amazement of my vegetarian girlfriend).

And no, I'm not Morgan Spurlock. I could never eat three square + supersizing at McD's--I'd think I'd die. Thankfully, there is a movie to prove it: a movie that, despite showing in only 138 theatres (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/movies/box_office.php?rank_id=512) has managed to influence TIME magazine enough to do a cover story (http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040607/).

[Steven1621]

alas this will be mcdonalds loss

[elo]

First, don't kid yourselves, people--McDonalds is *exactly* the sort of company Apple should be parterning with, because they own the segment. We may never know what went wrong here, but this was a big loss for Apple. Maybe the biggest in Apple's history.

Second, this is different from the Pepsi promotion. The paper peel-offs stand out and people remember to peel them off. Sony's reputation precedes them as well. Many people saw the Apple reference on the Pepsi bottles and immediately thought of the Mac. Many people threw their winning caps away just because they thought it was a Mac thing.

Third, ATRAC is actually quite good. The rest of Sony is falling completely apart, but it will take people a few years to realize it.

Apple needs to try another large scale promotion and it ought to be Burger King. BK is still #2, but they are gaining market share where McDonalds is losing. At the very least, they are the best of what's left.

Sony's offering is less than stellar (and like all recent Sony products, probably won't last more than a year). But after this, people will know about it.

elo

[codycartoon]

You get what you paid for. Back in the day people thought it was a big bargain to pay 100 dollars to go to an Elton John concert for serious entertainment. Today, at little or no cost, good artists have no where to survive, we're never gonna find the next Bob Dylan or Mozart. At these cheap cheap prices, the only artists are going to be the popular music artists who thrive off the corporate marketing funds and produce crap. Cheaper music literally means cheaper music. After all, we can download them for free from a dozen avaliable services provided you have internet, who needs to pay 18.98 for an album featuring some guy put together some rhythms on a computer and adding a few non-sensical or rebellious in a conformist kind of way lyrics when you can do this yourself on GarageBand or Cakewalk with a midi controller or any music production software and recording device ?

Records by the likes of Miles Davis, Elton John, Glenn Gould, and compositions by classical legends produced by well known pianists or orchestras like Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, etc have high retail prices, infact they do not ever come down in price because record companies know that people will pay good money for something insatiable. But on the other hand, for money incentive driven music, musicians don't care about improving the music, but rather focuses on how to market themselves or present themselves to sell more of the same thing.

True art includes some music, but not every thing, especially not what you hear on the radio, not even close. Corporate approved musicians and radio stations are the lowest common denominators. The music industry is losing sales because their strategy to maximize profit driven by capitalistic greed pushes the true talents away from the public, they don't want anything provoking, anything that gets you to think, they don't want the next Picasso or Donatello, they want the next Br*tney Spea*rs, everyone to be normalized to mind-numbing music.

You will not find true art under the bottle cap of some pepsi, nor at McDonalds, true art will remain where they have always been, in the minds and hands of truly artistic, creative, and altruistic people, far far away from this corporate land of ours.


You bring up a really silly argument.

Why would an "artist" care about how much money he or she is making.

You say it's great for someone to spend $100 on a ticket, but there is something wrong with downloading a song? Why do great artists "have" to be paid large sums of money?

A True Artist, produces music or whatever there art may be, because they simply have to. It's something deep down and they have to get it out.


You say "Miles Davis, Elton John, Glenn Gould", great musicians indeed, but with them come an incredible slew of bands from that time period that are not remembered, groups that were pop sensations but died over time, much like what we have today.

Why do you complain about main-stream music, when there is so much more to choose from.


The Music Cycle has stayed pretty much the same, the only difference is more people have access to much more music for much less. Sounds like an improvement to me, and if anything will produce a more competitive market place, where great artists will emerge.


Names of Great Bands/Musicians in the Modern Music World:
The White Stripes, The Strokes, Weezer, Radiohead, Pixies, Outkast, Aesop Rock, The Avalanches, Björk, Cake, The Moops,

[Doctor Q]

iTunes promotions don't have to come with burgers. They could come from Starbucks or Krispy Kreme. Gas stations or grocery stores could give 'em away. You could get tunes in a magazine at the newsstand (instead of the CD-ROM they often package in). You could get free tunes when you open a bank account or buy something from a web site. You could get a tune for every x-many dollars spent at a video rental store or at amazon.com.

Apple, you did soft drinks. Sony is doing burgers. Don't follow with more of the same. Think different and expand to other areas.

[midifarm]

What's been unsaid is that with the Big Mac value meal ONLY option, consumers will be injesting over 1200 calories per non-Super sized meal. If you do the math that comes to over 14,000 calories adding roughly 4 pounds of fat per album downloaded! Just think of the horror!

Can anyone smell a class action suit vs. Sony and McD's for obesity AND bad music?

Peace

[Doctor Q]

A True Artist, produces music or whatever there art may be, because they simply have to. It's something deep down and they have to get it out.Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa

Just because artists like what they do doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid. I like what I do (programming) so if that makes me ineligible for my salary, I hope the boss doesn't find out!

[coolfactor]

Would you like a crappy Windows Media File to go with your crappy burger?

haha, this is Sony we're talking about, and they have yet their own music format.. not Protected WMA.

[coolfactor]

Apple needs to try another large scale promotion and it ought to be Burger King. BK is still #2, but they are gaining market share where McDonalds is losing. At the very least, they are the best of what's left.

elo

Wow, really? Not here in Canada. Tim Hortons has probably skyrocketed to #1 (based on popularity)... and they're now combined with Wendy's, which attracts a wider range of consumers.

Burger King is definitely making a comeback here, but I still put Subway ahead of them.

Yes, Apple needs to think different (and healthy).

[LethalWolfe]

I just saw "Supersize Me" - it's hilarious and frightening at the same time.

Since you seem to be a McD defender, to what would you ascribe the epidemic of obesity currently sweeping the US and Europe? Too much salad? Too many fresh vegetables?

Sedentary lifestyles.

I eat healthier now than I did in college but I was definetly more fit in college because I excercised more (walking to/from class and racquetball at least 3x a week). Put me in a racquetball court now and by the end of the 2nd game I feel like I'm going to stroke out.

What was the same between the docs? Eating at Mcdonalds. What was different? Over-eating and laziness vs. moderation and excercise.

Blaming the food you have freely chosen to eat for making you fat is dumb.

ON TOPIC: Obviously no one can see into the future but this could very will give Sony a nice kick start.


Lethal

[midifarm]

Wow, really? Not here in Canada. Tim Hortons has probably skyrocketed to #1 (based on popularity)... and they're now combined with Wendy's, which attracts a wider range of consumers.

Burger King is definitely making a comeback here, but I still put Subway ahead of them.

Yes, Apple needs to think different (and healthy).

I'm thinking Chipotle (I know McD's owns them now) or possibly Jimmy John's!

[LethalWolfe]

A True Artist, produces music or whatever there art may be, because they simply have to. It's something deep down and they have to get it out.



I agree.

But it is very hard to "get it out" when you are working 40-50 hours at some job you hate just so you can pay the bills.

I love my industry and what I do. I can also make a comfortable living doing it. Does the amount of money I make compensate me for the typical 60 hours a week of insanity I go thru? No. But that's okay 'cause I'm not doing it for the money.


Lethal

[Vonnie]

Damn, I just don't understand people eating at McDonalds. Those hamburgers just look and taste disgusting. Try to have some respect for yourself and your body..

[Mord]

grrr mcdonalds sucks!!!
hehe

anyway apple probably woudlnt wanna be associate with them after that documentary supersize me.

i doubt sony connect will make a big splash, lets hope apple teams up with someone else tho before its too late


I agree if people assosiated apple with cheap fat dispenceing fast food joints they would lose the respect of loads of fans including me

[Windowlicker]

gosh i'm just happy apple isn't dealing with that nazi company..

[ifjake]

i think Maxx Power and Codycartoon both have good things to say. mainstream artists can be good though. today all too often mainstream artists sell out to companies or to a certain type of sound because their whole goal is to make money. i've never owned any radio songs unless i bought it before it was played. i don't want to embrace those artists that create to make lots of money when supporting them makes it harder for truely creative groups to even just make a living. my favorite band that i've been listening to since their first CD is just finally getting mainstream recognition now at their fourth CD. some people acuse them of selling out, but they've worked hard and their attitude is unchanged. my dismay with sony and apple and downloadable music is that people are purchasing a regressive form of music, whether that comes with a burger or a soda or not. i really want SACDs or DVD-As (whichever comes out on top) and their players to become more affordable, but the increasing acceptance of lossy compressed audio makes this difficult.

[LiciousTheDiva]

PEOPLE, PLEASE PICK A SIDE AND STICK WITH IT.

[midifarm]

PEOPLE, PLEASE PICK A SIDE AND STICK WITH IT.

I think the voting was reaction for Apple. The exposure etc. for iTunes and such, not necessarily the food part.

I don't know how much advertising Apple got out of the Pepsi deal, but I don't think it was enough. Hell, it was hard enough to find bottles with the iTunes caps for the first month of the promotion!

Peace

[heyriddle]

haha, this is Sony we're talking about, and they have yet their own music format.. not Protected WMA.

That's right!
I forgot about Sony's new ATRAC format. One positive on Sony's side is at least they are NOT using Microsoft's format like most of the other music stores out there. I wish Apple would license their AAC so companies like Sony or Real could have the option to use it. It is a tough call since Apple is on top with the iPod and the iTMS right now. It has been argued that the iTMS is a loss leader for Apple to sell the iPods. If that is the case it seems that they would want other stores to use AAC since the iPod is the only player to play that format. Don't get me wrong...I love the iTMS and wouldn't use another company's music store, but there are a lot of people out there that think the opposite since it is owned by Apple. I just hope Steve is doing the right thing.

[musicpyrite]

...what surprises me, is that i am in canada, and sony isn't just doing it in the US, which is nice, because pepsi/itunes was US only.

I'm sure that Apple and Pepsi would have been more than happy to have the promo in Europe, N America, ect. But first we have to HAVE iTMS for them.

grrrr.

[JGowan]

"Will that free song be 'extra crispy' or 'the Colonel's Original Recipe'?!"

[JGowan]

Wow, really? Not here in Canada. Tim Hortons has probably skyrocketed to #1 (based on popularity)...What (or who) the hell is "Tim Hortons"? Seriously. It's amazing that a company could be NUMBER ONE in the country just above mine and I've never heard of it.

And I don't think I'm alone.

[JGowan]

Damn, I just don't understand people eating at McDonalds. Those hamburgers just look and taste disgusting. Try to have some respect for yourself and your body..Bill Clinton: Everyone loves a Big Mac. But when you finish your Big Mac, you feel kind of queasy in the stomach, and you say to yourself, "I'm never eating a Big Mac again!" But you can't help it - it's tasty! You keep coming back!

- SNL ("The Clinton Gang") with Darrell Hammond as Bill Clinton

[JGowan]

Male Customer: Do you support the decision to send troops to Somalia?

Bill Clinton: [ chews his McMuffin ] Mmm.. that's a good question. Yes, I do.. and let me tell you why. See, right now, we're sending in.. [ holds us McMuffin ] ..food.. [ puts McMuffin in front of Male Customer ] ..to Somalia.. but it's not getting to the people who need it because.. [ brings McMuffin back to himself ] ..it's being intercepted by the warlords.. [ chews McMuffin some more ] And it's not just us. It's other countries, too.. [ grabs a McNugget from another customer ] Your McNugget is aid from Great Britain.. [ takes it to other customer, then gibbles it down ] ..intercepted by warlords! [ grabs someone's Filet-o-Fish ] This man's Filet-o-Fish over here is relief from Italy.. [ pops it in his mouth ] ..warlords! And you can send all the food you want.. [ grabs different items ] ..a McDLT, hot apple pie.. it's just gonna end up with.. [ puts it all in his mouth ] ..the warlords! Now, with a broad-based international military force, we can make sure that the McRib sandwich.. [ grabs one and places it on someone's tray ] ..gets to the people who need it. [ picks it up and gobbles it anyway ] Can I get a Coke?

- SNL ("Clinton at McDonald's") w/the illustrious Phil Hartman

[daRAT]

Spend 6$ or so on a BigMac meal and get a song from Sony, or spend 6$ on iTunes and get 6 songs?

This will peak Sony's site for a month, maybe surpassing iTunes for that month, then Sony and the PC world will harp on it for the next 11 months...

*shrug*

I never even knew Sony had a song buying site up?

I anit worried ;p

[midifarm]

Spend 6$ or so on a BigMac meal and get a song from Sony, or spend 6$ on iTunes and get 6 songs?

This will peak Sony's site for a month, maybe surpassing iTunes for that month, then Sony and the PC world will harp on it for the next 11 months...

*shrug*

I never even knew Sony had a song buying site up?

I anit worried ;p

You'll live longer! I don't think Sony's site will surpass iTMS for the simple reaason most companies do these loss leader promotions... people simply don't collect their winnings. If Pepsi truly gave out 100 Million winning caps and only 30 Million were collected, odds are most songs WON'T be collected. Besides I don't think I could stomach 6 Big Mac meals.

Peace

[nuckinfutz]

First, don't kid yourselves, people--McDonalds is *exactly* the sort of company Apple should be parterning with, because they own the segment. We may never know what went wrong here, but this was a big loss for Apple. Maybe the biggest in Apple's history.

Second, this is different from the Pepsi promotion. The paper peel-offs stand out and people remember to peel them off. Sony's reputation precedes them as well. Many people saw the Apple reference on the Pepsi bottles and immediately thought of the Mac. Many people threw their winning caps away just because they thought it was a Mac thing.

Third, ATRAC is actually quite good. The rest of Sony is falling completely apart, but it will take people a few years to realize it.

Apple needs to try another large scale promotion and it ought to be Burger King. BK is still #2, but they are gaining market share where McDonalds is losing. At the very least, they are the best of what's left.

Sony's offering is less than stellar (and like all recent Sony products, probably won't last more than a year). But after this, people will know about it.

elo


Elo don't take this personal but this post is total junk. Losing Mickey D's is no sweat off of Apples points for clear reasons.

1. Cost- 20oz Pepsi product = $.99 Big Mac $1.50 is most markets.

2. Redemption- if only %5 of pepsi drinkers redeemed what make you assume simply having a sticker will make increase sony's redemption rate? You're reaching

3. Support- Great I have songs that I can listen to on the computer or burn a CD but but it's in ATRAC so I can't use the most popular players.

4. Song quality. ATRAC may be good to "your" ears but 28 people here may disagree. Atrac comes in dead last (http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html) .

Apple already give us free songs and we don't have to ingest big macs or imbibe pepsi products. Apple has teamed up with China's top PC company as well as HP. I don't think people are going to quake at the "huffin and puffin'" of Sony connect.

Apple just needs to hit Canada and Europe strong and keep making deals to extend iTunes and the iPod.

[Inspector Lee]

What (or who) the hell is "Tim Hortons"? Seriously. It's amazing that a company could be NUMBER ONE in the country just above mine and I've never heard of it.

And I don't think I'm alone.

Horton was a pro hockey player in the 60s and 70s (Leafs, Sabres, etc.) and he died crashing his sports car while loaded. I'm familiar with them because they are all over the 401 between Windsor and Buffalo. They are also located in Detroit (where I grew up) but I can't speak for the rest of the country.

[ValiumLolliPoP]

Could it be that McDonalds wanted artists faces for this promotion? Since it's Sony's music service i'm assuming they have the authority to assign a specific artist to a McDonalds commercial. They also had someone perform (i forget who) at the press conference about this.

Or perhaps Sony has control of the artists that did the Coca-Cola commercials and since McDonalds uses Coca-Cola they thought it would be in their best interest to use Sony? I have not looked into this though...

[~Shard~]

Not a big deal for me - I hate McDonald's anyway, along with any other company that sells garbage for your body. If it would have worked out, fine, but since it didn't, no big deal. iTMS had the Pepsi promotion anyway which was good - but then again, Pepsi is crap for your body as well, so they're no better than McDonald's...

Of course, this has nothing to do with the business perpsective of things. But still part of me is glad to see Apple not teaming up too much with these types of companies - after all, if Apple really pursued this, what would be next, Apple teaming up with cigarette companies? ;) :cool:

[AliensAreFuzzy]

Personally I think McDonalds is gross. Now partner with Culver's...then you've got my attention

[visor]

How about some serious apple computer rumors again? Not even a month to go to wwdc and no serious hardware rumors?
What about new displays with a small frame so one could use 2 displays nicely,
g5 powerbooks are out for lunch i guess.... but maybe some new g4's that are almost as good?
imacs that go g5 should be on soon - completely new design there - where are the previews?

[synergy]

Oh yeah, that documentary where the Morgan Spurlock deliberty overate using McDonalds food, and then blamed McDonalds for his (unsurprising) dramatic weight gain.

Maria Bartiromo interviewed that hack and informed him that there were no combinations of McDonald's food available on their menu that would result in the 5000+ calories that he was injesting each day, and that he must have been seriously padding his diet with amounts of food that no human would eat normally.

Some "documentary."

I think I'll wait for Soso Wiley's documentary to come out. She went on a McDonalds-only diet (with normal, 3-meals-a-day caloric intake) and *lost* 10 pounts.

Eat sensibly and exercise, and you can even lose weight as a die-hard McDonnalds fan.

McDonalds McDonalds McDonalds


Hey Nifty McTroll,

I enjoy my occasional McDonalds meal too but you seem to need to knock the documentary based on a corporate air head and your penchant for snorting big macs like it was air. It is very easy to have a 5000+ calorie day at McDonalds. Check out:
http://www.calorie-counters.net/mcdonalds.html


Big Mac + Large Fries + Small Shake = 1560 calories.

If you had a McFlurry instead you can tack on 200 calories to that number.

And that is just one meal.

Take a look at the link and you can see there is plenty "way" to more than exceed 5000 calories eating McDonalds food. Put down the McDs Big Mac crack pipe.

[macnews]

You get what you paid for. Back in the day people thought it was a big bargain to pay 100 dollars to go to an Elton John concert for serious entertainment. Today, at little or no cost, good artists have no where to survive, we're never gonna find the next Bob Dylan or Mozart. At these cheap cheap prices, the only artists are going to be the popular music artists who thrive off the corporate marketing funds and produce crap. Cheaper music literally means cheaper music. After all, we can download them for free from a dozen avaliable services provided you have internet, who needs to pay 18.98 for an album featuring some guy put together some rhythms on a computer and adding a few non-sensical or rebellious in a conformist kind of way lyrics when you can do this yourself on GarageBand or Cakewalk with a midi controller or any music production software and recording device ?

Records by the likes of Miles Davis, Elton John, Glenn Gould, and compositions by classical legends produced by well known pianists or orchestras like Chopin, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, etc have high retail prices, infact they do not ever come down in price because record companies know that people will pay good money for something insatiable. But on the other hand, for money incentive driven music, musicians don't care about improving the music, but rather focuses on how to market themselves or present themselves to sell more of the same thing.
Please! Give me a break, music cheapened? Artist have been making bucks for decades. Elton John once was "pop" in the sense he was a popular artist. As for Mozart, his likes are the "true" artists by your logic. They did it for next to now pay, it was seen as intelectual. Those days are gone. All musicians may start off "doing it for the music' but they do need to eat and live when not performing - and hopefully produce even better music.

Today's artist's and labels + managers are greedy (I would say, or like to believe this is more the label and managers). That is what the whole fight with online downloads is about. Why did I pay $10-$15 for 8 tracks, then $10-$20 for casette tapes? Oh, they cost a lot to make, that magnetic tape isn't cheap you know! Along comes CD's initially priced, you guessed it $15-$25. Now, they are down in the $10-$20 range. The difference is the public knows CD's only cost pennies to make. You can prove this for yourself, just search online and see what it would cost you to duplicate millions of cd's. Your cost per cd is pennies, litterally, and this includes artwork printed on the CD and case. The album artwork is cheap when produced in quanties. Not only have these costs gone down, distribution costs have dropped because CD's are smaller and lighter than cassette tape - not to mention being able to master digitally, send the file to the replicator digitally, etc.

Then you talk about concert prices! Sorry, many artists just do not know how to put on a good show. I am not talking about some great light show, fire, special effects - I mean a good concert, good songs, enthusiastic performers and just doing more than singing (like engaging the audience). Too many performers go for the big lights and whiz bang effects because they think it makes for a "great" show. These guys need to get back to the real concert roots where touring was a MAJOR way to get your music out and help sell albums. Today, tours are not needed to sell albums (at least no where near the way they were 20 years ago). Tours are money makers - BIG money makers.

So, to bring this back on topic - just because Apple would have gone with McD would not cheapen the music or make it any less "pure". The pure music long left us - I mean has there really been the kind of good music since 1990? It has been few and far between. Apple with the purchase by song or album made online downloads available for the masses - not a bad thing. I think music can make people smarter and happier. Artists need to make money but would they rather limit who hears their music? In my opinion, if they are a true artist they would prefer to have more, than fewer people hearing their music. If that can be done by cheap, legal downloads partnered through Apple and McD's - great. But that isn't the case, instead it is Sony and McD's. Good for music lover, potentially bad for Apple fan.

[7on]

I think Sony is on the wrong end of the mp3 'wave.' Their music store layout is not well done, and they are very late to market with a quality mp3 device. People who have already bought players won't be able to use their store. They do have access to some music. They are doomed and should just give it up now.

lol, I love Sony just for sticking with failing products. ATRAC, Mini-Disks, Betamax... It's great!

Freg3000 sum it up well: you may be happy, but letting this go was a horibble BUSINESS DECISION by Apple. With market dominance in a future multi-billion dollar industry, Apple shouldn't play picky. Oh well, maybe the Sony promo won't do well... But thats more optimistic than it is safe.

I believe Apple wanted to pair with McDonald's, but McDonald's changed their mind.

[ingenious]

i don't go to mcdonalds anyway! (blows raspberry) so there!!!

now if apple would team up with burger king... i could get some free songs! :p

reality

Ewww... Gross! Burger King?!?! My local one served me a Whopper with rotting lettuce on it.... oh and mozzerlla sticks with cheese that was awful. Needless to say, I don't eat there anymore. Maybe Apple should team up with Subway or some place of the like. :p

[dmbfan]

Tim Hortons is a coffee/doughnut chain here in Canada, with some stores now in the US. It has expanded to offer light lunches, etc, along with doughnuts.

It is something of a part of our national identity here in Canada. I work in an office, and I wouldn't be exaggerating to say at least 50% of my coworkers show up for work each morning with a Hortons (they dropped the apostrophe a while ago) coffee, myself included. The stores are everywhere. There are literally 3 on one block in my city.


http://www.timhortons.com/

[GulGnu]

Hey Nifty McTroll,

Take a look at the link and you can see there is plenty "way" to more than exceed 5000 calories eating McDonalds food. Put down the McDs Big Mac crack pipe.

Problem is, you can easily get 5000 calories + at any diner, burger joint or similar establishment, should you want to. Should McDonalds be wiped from the face of the earth tomorrow, it would be replaced by other food outlets virtually in an instant - selling fast food is not a difficult niche to get established in.

The reason they get targetted are their high profile (naturally), and the fact that McDonalds is considered somewhat declassé among the upper-middle class audience mockumentaries such as "Super-Size Me" targets.

Nonetheless, eating a reasonably healthy meal at McD is most certainly possible without excessive effort.

The real problem lies deeper - harder to mock, yet much harder to solve.

1.) We don't move around much nowadays. Big, big problem.

and

2.) We are genetically primed to like fat, sugar and fast carbs. Just tastes better than salad.

In short, this is a struggle which we will be fighting until:

a) Science solves it for us. (Most likely scenario.)

b) We get some seriously draconic food legislation. (No fun - most people can handle food after all... ;) )

We will continue to grow as long as these factors are not taken care of somehow.

Regards, GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

[guifa]

OT
I haven't seen SuperSize Me (http://www.supersizeme.com/), but it is reasonable to expect that someone eating three square + supersizing whenever offered is going to gain weight and become unhealthy. According to McDonald's own website (http://app.mcdonalds.com/countries/usa/food/nutrition/mcmeal/bagmeal.jsp), the value meal needed to get a free song from Sony would run about 1150 calories (assuming coke), have 50g of fat. I can't get the numbers for supersize but I expect it to be much worse, add in a Double Quarter Pounder sometimes or their Egg McMuffins (basically your daily intake of fat right there) and there is simply no way you can lose weight. So please, do a little research before you take the contrary position.

When I eat less than about 4000 Calories a day I lose weight very fast. My typical diet is about 4000-5000 Calories a day. And here's what I look like (http://homepage.mac.com/auburnstuckwisch/.Pictures/me3.jpg) (I'm the guy). A nice lean 6'2", 190 LBs. It can be done, I eat junk food all the time (but I also have practice for both swimming and water polo ... ah the joys of collegiate sports). Nutrition is not inherently positive or negative, it's just one side of the balance that also includes excercise. Sure, some say that eating 1000 Calories a day will help you lose weight, but if you're only doing 500 Calories of work .... or worse some will do 3000 Calories or work, and go anorexic fast. If you like the amount you're eating just fine, adjust the excercise side of the balance. If you can't possibly see yourself changing the excercise level, then change the nutritional level.

[Porchland]

I am 16 and work at mcdonalds. as employes we have already been told about the promotion which starts on june the 8th. what surprises me, is that i am in canada, and sony isn't just doing it in the US, which is nice, because pepsi/itunes was US only. anyways, i can also tell that the songs are only with BigMacs, it comes on the box (we were advised not to steal bigmac boxes as they cost 1 dollar now, instead of 10 cents.) i believe it ends middle of august. I'm think i will use it though, it is availuble in canada, so thats good enough for me (and as an employe we alwasy get new products for free).. anyways there ends my insider info

aethier

And Steve-o knows this, too, which lends further support to the rumor that iTunes will go worldwide -- including Canada -- either this Tuesday or next.

[Porchland]

I work at a magazine where mcdonalds advertises already seen the print ads for the promo two weeks ago

Wow. Thanks for the insight. I guess we'll just find out what's in the ads when we buy the magazine. Wait, you didn't tell us which magazine.

[Porchland]

iTunes promotions don't have to come with burgers. They could come from Starbucks or Krispy Kreme. Gas stations or grocery stores could give 'em away. You could get tunes in a magazine at the newsstand (instead of the CD-ROM they often package in). You could get free tunes when you open a bank account or buy something from a web site. You could get a tune for every x-many dollars spent at a video rental store or at amazon.com.

Apple, you did soft drinks. Sony is doing burgers. Don't follow with more of the same. Think different and expand to other areas.

Starbucks would make a great market fit. In fact, I'd like to see Starbucks turn over this "CD barista" deal they're working on over to Apple.

http://www.fool.com/specials/2004/04051100sp.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y&bounce2=y

HP, which already has a relationship with Apple, is handling the technology for the Starbucks deal.

[dopefiend]

lol, I love Sony just for sticking with failing products. ATRAC, Mini-Disks, Betamax... It's great!

Actually mini-disks aren't a failure. They are very popular in Japan.

[Maxx Power]

My first post was not properly done in format, so here is what i can remember that i said from the first try

1) Why would an "artist" care about how much money he or she is making.

A real artist would not. Notice i never used the word artist to describe these mass-production "musicians". There are a few types of musicians, those who are artists do it for the cause of great art, and another type who thinks it is a good way to make money, and yet one more dominant type who started with group A then jumped ships to group B. Instead of focusing their time and energy on how to improve art, group B focuses on maximizing profit. Like i mentioned, today what we have is money-incentive driven music, where if you produced music that isn't targeting issues or audiences who are among the norm of the society thinking guidelines, you won't sell music, and consequently, you are out. True artists can not find a holding ground in the music industry. Previously in history, great artists who produced paintings or music or whatever didn't paint what everyone expects, they produced some of the most controversial and enjoyable pieces. Liszt was condemned for producing music that is considered "Evil" or "Devlish" at his time, Beethoven broke all the previous conceptions held about how music should be molded and started a whole new era in classical music. Today however, you are muted as soon as you start to speak differently, and many musicians can't sustain a living in a society where he doesn't earn money doing what he loves.

2) You say it's great for someone to spend $100 on a ticket, but there is something wrong with downloading a song? Why do great artists "have" to be paid large sums of money?

You mis-interpreted my idea. I never mentioned there is something wrong with downloading songs. The problem isn't in downloading and free access of music. It's the situation that you have two choices, either pay for music at about 20 dollars an album with tax, or pay nothing per album. How many times have you been faced with the situation where you can either pay for a car, or get one for free and practically legal. This situation only arises because the value of the albums isn't worth 20 dollars by general public consideration. I don't think most music for sale today is worth anything close to that. Like i said, most of today's musicians belong to group A, and in group A, you don't focus on improving art for artisticality or dig deeper into music theory, you focus on how to sell your brand, or image of yourself. For music that really isn't meant to be enjoyed actively (meaning you listen to music and do nothing else) but rather passively (like drive while you listen, work while you listen, or whatever) people won't pay for it. And also did you know that CD's literally costs pennies to produce ? as well that the musicians who sign up with big record companies also only get paid pennies per record they sell ? Which goes back to my point originally, for great, serious entertainment, people will pay good money for it.


3) A True Artist, produces music or whatever there art may be, because they simply have to. It's something deep down and they have to get it out.

This is what i said, yes.

4) You say "Miles Davis, Elton John, Glenn Gould", great musicians indeed, but with them come an incredible slew of bands from that time period that are not remembered, groups that were pop sensations but died over time, much like what we have today.

What i said about pop sensations of today, applies as well to the past few decades. This is by definition popular music, is that it only appeals to one or at most two generations because the way we think and are conditioned. Today we concern about body image, perfectionism, and normalism (this one has been for a while), etc. You are not surprised to find the pop sensations today with great clear faces, fit-alike-looking bodies, and that they resemble your typical calvin clone Ads. This is one reason why previous pop sensations fade away, things that people care about in each generation simply change. So the only people who transcends through time as generations pass by are the great legends who didn't care about what was the popular thing to do at the time and played music to their hearts desire, it may not be profitable. Miles Davis brough us Jazz music which is nolonger popular today, but still enjoys good record sales such that you will find his records in almost any CD store. Glenn Gould, a superb pianist and classical music interpreter is exactly the same, with records contantly being sold on Amazon or eBay or your local HMV.

4) Why do you complain about main-stream music, when there is so much more to choose from.

In actuality, there are about as many types of music you can choose from as there are choices of president for the Americans (there are two). There is really only one type of music you'll see in the stores in North America, and that is corporately-approved types. You won't find anything that goes against capitalism, you won't find any songs on records dedicated to the death and suffering in Iraq, you won't find any records devoted to the sweat-shop workers in China or Indonesia who work themselves to death so a few shareholders here in North America can own a BMW at the same time donating 1/100000th of the profit to charities for public reputation. When you find information completely uncensored, you will have true selections of art.

5) The Music Cycle has stayed pretty much the same, the only difference is more people have access to much more music for much less. Sounds like an improvement to me, and if anything will produce a more competitive market place, where great artists will emerge.

If you think that just because that music today is cheaper and there is more to choose from and hence it is better, then you are the type who screams "yes" whenever a local politican says tax cuts if elected. You neglect the unseen side of things. Taxes are collected non-linearly in the sense that the richer you are, the more taxes you pay. Cutting the tax means the richer gets the breaks. The taxes are then put forth toward a slew of community programs such as health care. Think about where your health care went next time when you make a judgement when most of the world's first world nations/countries has it and are ranked consistently above the US. In the same way, quantity of music have increased, but the quality have tumbled down the hill like a fat man fed on McDonald's diet.
There is no such thing as a music cycle, it is another myth. There is simply no cycle in the sense that there is no predictable period (of the cycle) when music will be good, and when it will be bad. But what has changed is the way that a typical teenager now grows up to CD-buying age exposed to ten times more advertising and indoctornation about what is great music. What little chance the younger ones had before to think freely is further muted by a society that manufactures consent. And remember, competitive market place is just a fable, it doesn't exist by definition. Afterall, competitive market is what kept Microshaft in the loop.


6) Names of Great Bands/Musicians in the Modern Music World:
The White Stripes, The Strokes, Weezer, Radiohead, Pixies, Outkast, Aesop Rock, The Avalanches, Björk, Cake, The Moops,

I have no comment on your personal choice of music.

[~Shard~]

Ah yes, the good old debate of downloading music (legally/illegally), artists getting paid, what is right, what is wrong - it seems to creep its way into any topic on these forums dealing with iTMS! ;) Not that it's a bad thing of course, open discussion on these topics is always good.

As for myself, I watch these shows on TV about the "Fabulous Life of..." and see how some of these musicians are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on parties that last one night, staying in exclusive villas around the world for $3500/night, buying $200,000 sports cars, dining out at exclusive restaurants in private eating areas with private menus and anything cooked up to their whim, living in multi-million dollar mansions, buying thousands of dollars of clothing and accessories - and I could go on and on. My point is, after seeing how much money some (and I stress some) of these musicians are making, and how foolishly they're spending it in excessive and opulent ways, I have no problems whatsoever in downloading their music for free, because guess what - they don't need the money. :cool:

[GulGnu]

...you won't find any records devoted to the sweat-shop workers in China or Indonesia who work themselves to death so a few shareholders here in North America can own a BMW at the same time donating 1/100000th of the profit to charities for public reputation.

...primarily they do it because it beats sustainance farming - industrialization tends to attract people for that very reason. If US corporations decided to move their trinket n' gadget production back to the US from China tomorrow, the US would lose out somewhat - the Chinese economy on the other hand, would be plain devastated.

[GulGnu]

And remember, competitive market place is just a fable, it doesn't exist by definition. Afterall, competitive market is what kept Microshaft in the loop.

It is correct that the perfectly competitive marketplace does not exist (after all, it's a theoretical abstraction of an absolute state of affairs.)

Still, Microsoft is an extreme example, due to the nature of the operating systems market. (Huge network effects drive standardization which in turn tends to drive market concentration.)

You need only to move to the duopolistic microprocessor market to find fierce competition even with a small number of market actors. (I.e, Intel and AMD, and to some extent IBM and Sun.)

Regards, GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

[GulGnu]

If you think that just because that music today is cheaper and there is more to choose from and hence it is better

Well, choice has its ups and downs. Finding stuff can be harder, for one. Still, it also means a wide variety of tastes can be catered to, unlike say, 60 years ago.

Depending on to what degree you desire social conformism, this might be a good or a bad thing as well.

Furthermore, determining "musical quality" isn't very straightforward at all. Music fills a complex social function - and so, "quality" needs to be defined in order to have a meaningful discussion.

[Maxx Power]

You said

"Well, choice has its ups and downs. Finding stuff can be harder, for one. Still, it also means a wide variety of tastes can be catered to, unlike say, 60 years ago.

Depending on to what degree you desire social conformism, this might be a good or a bad thing as well.

1) Furthermore, determining "musical quality" isn't very straightforward at all. Music fills a complex social function - and so, "quality" needs to be defined in order to have a meaningful discussion."

This is the only paragraph i need to address. I agree with you that quality needs to be defined. How about the understanding of music theory one reveals by composing music ? How about the meaningfulness and not just abstractness of lyrics ? How about the professionalism in playing the various instruments ? I have never yet heard anyone who can play the guitar as well as Glenn Gould, Idil Biret, Claudio Arrau, etc can play the piano. Modern music is very guitar driven for a reason, is that structure and technique wise, the guitar is a comparatively simple instrument. It only has one line in sheet music, either upper octaves or lower, not both like the piano, or the harpsichord. Listen to the notes being played on any typical rock song, you'll find that they are mostly just three or four repetitive chords over and over. String instruments have seen much better days with the likes of Paganini. That's one thing to think about when judging music quality. Of course there are other things to consider as well, but enjoyment of an object tells nothing of the quality of the subject whatsoever, enjoyment is a factor of personal taste (which will not be discussed here). So subjectively speaking if one uses the norm I have sat up earlier to judge the quality of music, what i was mentioning in the other post remains valid.
Secondly, while it is true that music fills a complex social function, the converse is also true, that music is a product of a complex social structure. It highly reflects the general public audiences it targets and originates from. People who had little or no music training (though means of high-order music education which was necessary back in the day as a premise of a musician) produce music that targets those who know little or nothing of music, namely the younger population. Once again, the converse is also true. Those who receives education in music prefer music produced by those who had a concrete background in music.

At this point, i doubt there are many people who still reads this particular thread....

[Maxx Power]

...primarily they do it because it beats sustainance farming - industrialization tends to attract people for that very reason. If US corporations decided to move their trinket n' gadget production back to the US from China tomorrow, the US would lose out somewhat - the Chinese economy on the other hand, would be plain devastated.

And this means they can ignore all other things such as fair human treatment, environmental devastation, just to produce a few Pion**r cd players to sell at 100 times cost ?

Secondly, I've been to China, i have seen the villages and farming isn't half bad. People would rather prefer farming than slave labouring themselves (not physical attached to owner, but rather bound by will to live).

Thirdly, one day you walk into Walmart and realized everything costs 5 times as much because big third world countries refused labour at low low prices, you'll walk out with a McDonald's Frown (happy face turned upside down). The worst nightmare of the US economy is that people stop consuming, if they stop for whatever reason, the society collapse.

[Maxx Power]

It is correct that the perfectly competitive marketplace does not exist (after all, it's a theoretical abstraction of an absolute state of affairs.)

Still, Microsoft is an extreme example, due to the nature of the operating systems market. (Huge network effects drive standardization which in turn tends to drive market concentration.)

You need only to move to the duopolistic microprocessor market to find fierce competition even with a small number of market actors. (I.e, Intel and AMD, and to some extent IBM and Sun.)

Regards, GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

From a third person perspective it seems that there exist fierce competition. Upon closer scrutiny, your all and well competition turns into one party dominance and the rest play catch up. True competition hardly exists if multiple parties always fails to catch up due to pressure (simply don't have the marketing dollars, etc) The party that remained the most competitive to Intel is AMD, and here is their track record:

First superscalar RISC - K5
First to use "Flip-Chip" technology - K6
First on-chip L2 cache - K6-3
First use of copper interconnects - K7
First fully pipelined, superscalar floating point unit - K7
First to extend x86 to 64-bits (AMD64) - K8

Through their history of inventing ahead of Intel, they are still not even close to being the top gun. What's wrong with the competitive market ? Concrete ideologies like competitive markets require all necessary elements to work, not like some Martha Stew*art recipe. If one element fails, the whole thing shifts from one thing to another in a flash. That's what we have today, we have, by name only, competitive markets, all else is gone.

Secondly, corporations nolonger compete to bring you "better" products, they simply compete to sell more and bypass the middleman of improvements. They use tactics like patent portfolios to prevent other companies from releasing products that may eat up their market shares, how often do you read about lawsuits between corporations because of patent infringement per year ? There is simply nothing to hold them accountable. They are profit monsters designed by law to make profit, nothing enforces them to be competitive. Last time i remembered, Microsoft was being sued for anti-trust cases and now they are still drenched in their ****. The point is, the law system is simply not sat up to accommodate changes that are rapid, new issues come out all the time, but bills only gets passed once in a while in the congress or parliament (depending on where you live). The system was designed to stumble and fail to begin with (all systems eventually fail).

[jhawk95]

I just bought a Big Mac! What a Ripp OFF. You cannot redeem these on a Macintosh and there is no Disclaimer of this at McDonald's or on the Big Mac Box.

Can anyone say CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!

I am calling McDonald's Corp on Monday and demanding a refund!

[jsw]

I just bought a Big Mac! What a Ripp OFF. You cannot redeem these on a Macintosh and there is no Disclaimer of this at McDonald's or on the Big Mac Box.

Can anyone say CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!

I am calling McDonald's Corp on Monday and demanding a refund!

Apple should honor them with iTMS songs. Excellent publicity, probably minor cost.

:)

[Doctor Q]

Apple should honor them with iTMS songs. Excellent publicity, probably minor cost.If supermarkets can honor each other's coupons, I guess Apple could steal Sony's action as you suggest. And get a free ride on McDonald's coattails. What an interesting idea!