Employment is large in my area ,but we have a problem and its our fault!

[waloshin]

In my area in Canada, we have a decent amount of employment opportunities.

Our area houses, 11,000 people and we currently have 250 open jobs in the job bank.

Fast food restaurants are having a hard time find employment because kids todays are too good to work in fast food restaurants. So instead they hire companies to bring foreign workers here, Example Philippine's, and Pakistan people. They are coming in at an alarming rate.

What people don't realize is that they don't want to work in these places, well these foreign workers are willing to they also work very hard. So in ten to fifteen years people will be complaining that their is no work because these foreign workers will be owning these restaurants that they are working at. And it will be their fault, not anybody else's.

I am no way or form racist, so go right ahead and try to flame me for nothing.

[jessica.]

Okay then. Awesome for Snow Mexico.

[thegoldenmackid]

I mean while that logic makes sense. 1st world countries exploiting both physical and labor resources of countries such as the one's you mentioned and that is clearly so much better. You are stereotyping a tad bit.

[InvalidUserID]

So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly:

- Current residents are too good for "low" jobs
- Foreigners are willing to do these jobs
- As years pass, the foreigners will become more established, likely owners
- Old current residents will be locked out of jobs that they never wanted to begin with

What is the problem here? The current people aren't willing to do the work and others are. And if they are willing to do the work, work hard and become owners, that is a bad thing?

Unless the foreigners being brought over are being done so illegally, I don't see a problem with it.

You say you aren't racist but what are you against?

a) hard workers taking jobs others don't want
b) hard workers becoming owners down the road

Substitute the people from the Philippines and Pakistan with other Canadians and it doesn't sound like such a problem, does it?

[waloshin]

What about the people that work their for 15 years, and never gain a thing, but make $ 15/ hour. Who can't afford to buy their own store. These people bring in their families they join their money and it become a family only owned and operated company.

[InvalidUserID]

What about the people that work their for 15 years, and never gain a thing, but make $ 15/ hour. Who can't afford to buy their own store. These people bring in their families they join their money and it become a family only owned and operated company.

*Terrible grammar, but I'll try to look past that by remembering you are a HS student*

**This sounds so similar to the Blacks vs Koreans from the early 90s in Los Angeles.**

In the first post, the issue was foreigners coming in, working hard and eventually becoming owners. This last post, a new point is that old workers don't have the means to buy the businesses while the foreigners join together. OK...

Help me understand the situation:

- Could the other old workers (can I just assume they are white?) have done the same by pooling together resources?
- Is there an unfair advantage that the foreigners have that the old workers don't?
- What is minimum wage? (It is $8 here I believe, so $15 isn't bad)

My thoughts with the information given so far is that anyone who has worked for 15 years and has gained nothing, either has too much on their plates, needs a 2nd job or has poor money management. Broad judgment, I know. And I don't see an issue with the foreigners pooling their resources together to advance themselves from workers to owners. I see that as enterprising.

[InvalidUserID]

Serious case of "us versus them" going on here.

[velocityg4]

These restaurants don't really have any other options since the locals are unwilling to work at them.

There choices come down to
1. Hire foreign workers willing to work for low wages so the place can stay in business.
2. Hire no one. So they can not serve their customers, lose their customer base and finally go under.
3. Increase the salaries and benefits. Then have to increase the price of food to offset wages, lose their customer base due to the high prices and finally go under.

It seems to me these restaurants and other businesses are taking the only avenue available to stay in business. I am sure they would love to hire locals since they can more easily interact with their customers. As you said no one wants to work at those places.

[thegoldenmackid]

Serious case of "us versus them" going on here.

We need to go out and get the terrorists. Freedom, America, Gas Pumps...Amen.

[awmazz]

The simple fact is it is supply and demand. In the normal course of things, the fast food outlets would raise their wages to attract the native-Canadian workers.

But they don't, because the govt allows them to bring in migrant workers. They do this because it keeps the minimum wage low. Low wage pressure keeps inflation low. Low inflation makes govts and politicians look like they know what they're doing.

Canadians I assume are like voters in most countries, they throw their politicians out at election time when the price of their fries goes up.

[Sun Baked]

Bringing in people to work from other countries legally, is a way to pad the roll of government entitlement programs.

In the US an inability to find an easy way to bring in foreign workers and have them pay taxes just accelerates the looming Social Security problem where there are not enough workers to pay for the outgoing social security checks.

Also bringing them in helps the local economies since they will spend money where they work, even if they do send money home to the families.

[waloshin]

These restaurants don't really have any other options since the locals are unwilling to work at them.

There choices come down to
1. Hire foreign workers willing to work for low wages so the place can stay in business.
2. Hire no one. So they can not serve their customers, lose their customer base and finally go under.
3. Increase the salaries and benefits. Then have to increase the price of food to offset wages, lose their customer base due to the high prices and finally go under.

It seems to me these restaurants and other businesses are taking the only avenue available to stay in business. I am sure they would love to hire locals since they can more easily interact with their customers. As you said no one wants to work at those places.

Or

4. Try to bring workers in by screwing over workers that have been their for a long time. Workers that have been their for 3+ years. How you may ask, by paying new unexperienced workers starting wage of what the old workers earned over the past years.

[InvalidUserID]

Or

4. Try to bring workers in by screwing over workers that have been their for a long time. Workers that have been their for 3+ years. How you may ask, by paying new unexperienced workers starting wage of what the old workers earned over the past years.

You just gave your own personal take on option #1.

I fail to see how the business is screwing over older workers. Are they laying off the older workers and then rehiring the foreign workers at a lower wage? (similar to what Circuit City did)

Or are you referring to new workers being paid similarly to experienced workers? I know that within my own corporation, some workers in the lower positions (tellers) with 10 years experience are only a few dollars above new hires. How is this possible? The older workers were brought on at market rates ten years ago and have hit a wage "ceiling" or maximum that the current position/title will pay while the new hires are brought on at the current market wage, which is naturally higher. That isn't screwing over the older employees, that is just a business practice.

I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what exactly the frustration is here...is it that the foreigners are coming to Canada (you mentioned coming in at an alarming rate), is it that they are becoming owners, or being brought in at wages similar to older workers.

If you have a problem, it is with the business not the people. The people are simply filling a need and taking advantage of an opportunity.

Do you have have a personal connection with this situation? My guess is yes.

[thegoldenmackid]

Or

4. Try to bring workers in by screwing over workers that have been their for a long time. Workers that have been their for 3+ years. How you may ask, by paying new unexperienced workers starting wage of what the old workers earned over the past years.

Yes, if the older workers agreed to work at the lower price, they would not train them, it's a business and when things start to get big, for the most part feelings and emotions get pushed aside and things like that happen. Go look up what happened when DHL stopped doing domestic shipping, one of the worst stories ever.

[Abstract]

I fail to see how the business is screwing over older workers. Are they laying off the older workers and then rehiring the foreign workers at a lower wage? (similar to what Circuit City did)

Or are you referring to new workers being paid similarly to experienced workers?

That's what I wondered as well. :confused:



I know that within my own corporation, some workers in the lower positions (tellers) with 10 years experience are only a few dollars above new hires.

I realise how and why this occurs in business, but I still don't believe it's fair.

[leekohler]

This thread brought to you by the same guy who thinks it's sad that Hitler isn't remembered for being a great artist.

[thegoldenmackid]

This thread brought to you by the same guy who thinks it's sad that Hitler isn't remembered for being a great artist.

I mean on that thread at least there was some discussion over whether or not one liked the chancellor's art. This thread is not only contradictory at some points but also hypocritical, one-sided view points and as it's been pointed out, written in a completely "us-them" dichotomy. The Hitler art thread it seemed like was more to point out that in addition to slaughtering millions of innocent people, causing a World War and destroying much of certain areas of the world; Hitler previously painted.

[leekohler]

I mean on that thread at least there was some discussion over whether or not one liked the chancellor's art. This thread is not only contradictory at some points but also hypocritical, one-sided view points and as it's been pointed out, written in a completely "us-them" dichotomy. The Hitler art thread it seemed like was more to point out that in addition to slaughtering millions of innocent people, causing a World War and destroying much of certain areas of the world; Hitler previously painted.

Maybe so- but this is the OP from that thread:

The person who made this painting was actually good. Though sadly their only remembered for one thing.

[iShater]

This thread brought to you by the same guy who thinks it's sad that Hitler isn't remembered for being a great artist.

I fail to see how that relates to this specific topic Lee.


New workers making the same or in some cases MORE than existing workers is a phenomena that happens across industries. The longer a person stays at a job, there is a high probably that unless they advance to a different position, the merit pay increases simply keep up with inflation, and the business has to pay more to attract people to come and work at the place. Good businesses will do market adjustments to make sure their existing workers are paid competitively and are motivated to continue working.

Regarding this fast food restaurant issue. I am sure if you are flipping burgers, doing it for 6 months or 6 years doesn't really change your skill set. If you end up leading shifts or crews, then you are NOT just "more experienced", it means you have more responsibility.

So the OP is saying they are importing people all the way from Pakistan and the Philippines to come work at the restaurants? I doubt it. It is more likely that immigrants that are already in the area are going after these jobs because they are not finding others.

And by the way, the reason many of these franchises are "family owned by immigrants" is because they like your local-non-immigrant business owner, bought the place and the franchise. A business person with the right motivation and skills will find a way to get that business working if the conditions are right, it doesn't matter where they are from.

[leekohler]

I fail to see how that relates to this specific topic Lee.


New workers making the same or in some cases MORE than existing workers is a phenomena that happens across industries. The longer a person stays at a job, there is a high probably that unless they advance to a different position, the merit pay increases simply keep up with inflation, and the business has to pay more to attract people to come and work at the place. Good businesses will do market adjustments to make sure their existing workers are paid competitively and are motivated to continue working.

Regarding this fast food restaurant issue. I am sure if you are flipping burgers, doing it for 6 months or 6 years doesn't really change your skill set. If you end up leading shifts or crews, then you are NOT just "more experienced", it means you have more responsibility.

So the OP is saying they are importing people all the way from Pakistan and the Philippines to come work at the restaurants? I doubt it. It is more likely that immigrants that are already in the area are going after these jobs because they are not finding others.

And by the way, the reason many of these franchises are "family owned by immigrants" is because they like your local-non-immigrant business owner, bought the place and the franchise. A business person with the right motivation and skills will find a way to get that business working if the conditions are right, it doesn't matter where they are from.

Sorry, I should have been more direct. I said what I did because I have serious doubts about the "I'm not a racist" statement. I think that relates quite a bit to the Hitler art thread.

[thegoldenmackid]

Sorry, I should have been more direct. I said what I did because I have serious doubts about the "I'm not a racist" statement. I think that relates quite a bit to the Hitler art thread.

I mean iThink his statement could be taken a multitude of ways. One could have liked the non-genocidal aspects of Hitler because he did do somethings that were good, and some of those turned bad:
He was a great organizer, that saw it's largest role in the Holocaust
He was a man of the arts, see other thread
He was a great speaker, only led to more killings
He loved his country, caused a World War
He loved technology, (see above)
etc, etc, etc....

His statement could also read: it's sad that Hitler is only remembered for one thing, too bad he could have been non-genocidal/World War Hitler, or along those sort of lines.

iThink that it's hard to take someone's questionable statement and call them a racist, if anything this thread has shown more of that racist mentality, I mean the "us-them" problem that was pointed out above is a serious concern to anyone who is trying to deny being racist/etc.

[leekohler]

I mean iThink his statement could be taken a multitude of ways. One could have liked the non-genocidal aspects of Hitler because he did do somethings that were good, and some of those turned bad:
He was a great organizer, that saw it's largest role in the Holocaust
He was a man of the arts, see other thread
He was a great speaker, only led to more killings
He loved his country, caused a World War
He loved technology, (see above)
etc, etc, etc....

His statement could also read: it's sad that Hitler is only remembered for one thing, too bad he could have been non-genocidal/World War Hitler, or along those sort of lines.

iThink that it's hard to take someone's questionable statement and call them a racist, if anything this thread has shown more of that racist mentality, I mean the "us-them" problem that was pointed out above is a serious concern to anyone who is trying to deny being racist/etc.

I suppose. But the Hitler art thread doesn't exactly help his claim either, does it? ;)

[Badandy]

I suppose. But the Hitler art thread doesn't exactly help his claim either, does it? ;)

Absolutely not. It's quite obvious the OP is holding quite a bit back to not make his hateful views more obvious. A post record of thinking it's sad that the world's most evil man is remembered for his remarkable evil over his mediocre art skills and a poorly articulated anti-foreigner argument is not flattering to his intentions.

[leekohler]

Absolutely not. It's quite obvious the OP is holding quite a bit back to not make his hateful views more obvious. A post record of thinking it's sad that the world's most evil man is remembered for his remarkable evil over his mediocre art skills and a poorly articulated anti-foreigner argument is not flattering to his intentions.

That's why I brought it up. I thought it was completely relevant to some of the sentiments expressed in this thread.

[waloshin]

This thread brought to you by the same guy who thinks it's sad that Hitler isn't remembered for being a great artist.

What about the Iraq war going on right now, the one Bush started for absloughtly no reason. How many innocent people did Bush kill?

There was no weapons of mass destruction, Bush was likely just after the Oil!

Iraq Body Count 92,489 – 100,971 violent civilian deaths as a result of the conflict. June 2009, quoted from wikipedia.

[thegoldenmackid]

I suppose. But the Hitler art thread doesn't exactly help his claim either, does it? ;)
Absolutely not.

What about the Iraq war going on right now, the one Bush started for absloughtly no reason. How many innocent people did Bush kill?

There was no weapons of mass destruction, Bush was likely just after the Oil!

Iraq Body Count 92,489 – 100,971 violent civilian deaths as a result of the conflict. June 2009, quoted from wikipedia.
The Holocaust in the Iraqi War are two separate things, comparing them is absolutely absurd, even for the far left like me:
Hitler wanted dead Jews and non-Aryans; Bush wanted oil
Hitler wanted world dominance; Bush wanted cheap oil
Hitler attacked innocent civilian populations; Bush bombed an entire country, and in turn killed both innocent civilians and those that were fighting against him
Hitler acted near unilaterally; Bush attacked with the support of 100ish countries
Hitler killed millions of innocent people; see above
Hitler started a war, killing millions; see above
the real dagger is the following: If Bush was so evil and this war was so unjustified, why hasn't Obama stopped it?

Remember I'm crazy liberal, but also a genocide geek (if one could call it that), comparing even Rwanda is hard to Hitler. The difference is that while they were both ethnic cleansing, Hitler enslaved the masses and then found ways to systematically kill the masses; in Rwanda, they used machetes to prolong the pain. Hitler had no plans of stopping, but let's not forget about the forty million civilians Stalin killed.

[Queso]

I love the OP's argument. Immigrants should not be allowed to come into a country, take the best jobs and demand the locals behave differently....


...unless of course the immigrant in question is one Adolf Hitler :D

[waloshin]

If Bush was so evil and this war was so unjustified, why hasn't Obama stopped it?

Thats a good question!

[arkitect]

I love the OP's argument. Immigrants should not be allowed to come into a country, take the best jobs and demand the locals behave differently....


...unless of course the immigrant in question is one Adolf Hitler :D

Well… those walls need painting after all. ;)

[leekohler]

Thats a good question!

Umm...he is stopping it. Read the news.

[Badandy]

Thats a good question!

So, let's get to the bottom of this. Do you like Hitler? Are you ambivalent towards him? Do you believe the holocaust killed over 6 million people? Do you think Bush was as bad of a leader as Hitler was? Are you sad Germany lost World War II? Do you really think it's unfair that people who are willing to work in jobs that other people aren't can become successful in them?


Those aren't a lot of questions to freeze your thinking, I'm interested in hearing individual answers for all of them. Go ahead.

[waloshin]

So, let's get to the bottom of this. Do you like Hitler? Are you ambivalent towards him? Do you believe the holocaust killed over 6 million people? Do you think Bush was as bad of a leader as Hitler was? Are you sad Germany lost World War II? Do you really think it's unfair that people who are willing to work in jobs that other people aren't can become successful in them?


Those aren't a lot of questions to freeze your thinking, I'm interested in hearing individual answers for all of them. Go ahead.

No I do not like Hitler, of coarse the Holocaust killed over 6 million people. Bush was not as bad, but Bush was pretty much in the same category killing innocent people. No I don't think its unfair at all ,but I can't wait to hear the people complaining when the time comes.

[thegoldenmackid]

No I do not like Hitler, of coarse the Holocaust killed over 6 million people. Bush was not as bad, but Bush was pretty much in the same category killing innocent people. No I don't think its unfair at all ,but I can't wait to hear the people complaining when the time comes.

Funny thing:
Bin Laden's logic is: the people that died in 9/11 might have been innocent, but they were casualties that the War against America needed to have occur for a larger goal

Bush's logic is: it sucks that the innocent peopled died in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's the cost of this thing called war.

Hitler's logic was kill all the Jews.

[waloshin]

Funny thing:
Bin Laden's logic is: the people that died in 9/11 might have been innocent, but they were casualties that the War against America needed to have occur for a larger goal

Bush's logic is: it sucks that the innocent peopled died in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's the cost of this thing called war.

Hitler's logic was kill all the Jews.

But the Iraq war was not necessary.

[thegoldenmackid]

Funny thing:
Bin Laden's logic is: the people that died in 9/11 might have been innocent, but they were casualties that the War against America needed to have occur for a larger goal

Bush's logic is: it sucks that the innocent peopled died in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's the cost of this thing called war.

Hitler's logic was kill all the Jews.

But the Iraq war was not necessary.

But 9/11 & the Holocaust were?


Following that bombshell the rest is sorta a side note: Says you. While it might not have been necessary, it did the same thing as the "War on Terror." Arguably it did better things. Afghanistan still has Taliban problems and Pakistan's have gotten out of hand, we still don't have that one dude, Afghanistan's economy is...well and now they have a rampant drug problem that the Taliban kept in check. Iraq at least is progressing towards signing oil deals with China, we removed a bad regime and seem to have established some semblance of elections and in the grand scheme of things Bush's war killed about the same amount of people as Saddam's fits.

BTW, not only has this completely diverged, but you are failing to answer/see my points.

Hitler gets his own place in history, Stalin is the only one that could even be thought of being in the same category. There was this dude in Italy around the same time that was quite bad too, but, numbers wise his impact was much smaller. In the past quarter century, only the Yugoslavian genocide comes even close to be something as ruthless and extreme as Hitler, but that is far away. Rwanda was horrific, the 100 bloodiest days in history when a nuclear bomb was not dropped; but the systematic ethnic cleansing of Hitler and that in Rwanda were different.