OS X Snow Leopard 10A402 Brings Visual Tweaks and Other Enhancements

[intel]

I really like where this Snow Leopard look is going. I think Apple is going to hold out on the major overhaul to the UI, though. I was disappointed at first, but now I think it was a good idea for them to wait for Win7 and then take a year to try and out GUI it in every way they can.

This one might make you think I'm crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple pulled a Quicktime on the whole OS and had the menu bars hide themselves when you mouse off a window. Now THAT is minimalist. They'd need to show the folder name still, of course.. just get rid of anything extraneous when you're not mousing onto a window.

I would like to add my name to the list of people asking for a Finder cut/paste. I'd also like to add a Windows-like address bar, so I can tell someone on my network "hey, you can find my file here "p://projects/awesomeaccount/graphics" (and they can click that to take them to my file, without repeating my click by click trip to a certain folder). Maybe building SVN into the Finder would be a better solution, but I don't see that happening, either.

So yeah... yay Marble, yay aesthetic changes, and yay under the hood improvements. Cheers!


Finally it's getting out there and it's not just an internal desire for all mac users.
Cut and paste was publicized so much for the iphone that apple finally gave in, and they are soo much better that they did. WE WANT CUT AND PASTE FOR FINDER OR AT LEAST APPEND WHEN COPYING FOLDERS SO THAT WE DON'T LOSE OUR FILES.

I'm so pissed off that i lost my files thinking that the most obvious thing ('append') was not so obvious when copying folders. (this was before time machine) I gave apple a lot of money lately and i've gotten awesome products, but my needs have not been met. I feel like i've bought a $1000 table tennis set but i got an egged ping pong ball and i'm begging for the supplier to throw in just a good average ping pong ball and they just refuse and ignore me.

Please help me spread the word and post on all forums that we want better finder functionality on par with every file browser on the market (yes, even the free hackzor versions have we are all looking for)! Yes, even back to as early as windows 3.1 had cut, paste and append. I'm pretty sure that just one of their programers can knock this up in 1-2 weeks so i'm not asking for much given that they have 29 billion dollars reserves.

Spread the word, start petitions, march on washington, send fliers, we all want it, some need it, and all of us would at least love the option in settings to just click a check box to enable it if apple does not want it as default.

[DMann]

So yeah. I'm gonna say just go download it and give it a try as long as you know you'll be purchasing it in the end. That's how we retain trust with Apple. They took out the serial numbers for iLife and iWork, didn't they? :)Shame on you - are you not aware?

THAT'S STEALING :rolleyes:

At least I'm moralistic and altruistic enough to drop by the post office each day to deposit .44 for each and every e-mail I send out online. The nerve of these relentless scofflaws, blatantly bypassing and stealing the profits rightfully due to the USPS! :mad:

[RobertCraigWils]

Has anyone else ever wanted this? A contextual menu for the results shown in spotlight? It seems like a simple thing, but it's either, open the specific entry from spotlight or open a folder with ALL results.. I don't know.. Maybe that's too Windowsy :)

[ventro]

Has anyone else ever wanted this? A contextual menu for the results shown in spotlight? It seems like a simple thing, but it's either, open the specific entry from spotlight or open a folder with ALL results.. I don't know.. Maybe that's too Windowsy :)
Definitely. Most of the time I have to command-click it to show it in finder and then right click it. I think Spotlight needs an overhaul in general.

[RobertCraigWils]

Yeah - I haven't looked extensively but the limited search results for that right click option don't yield anything.. Nothing third party, no terminal commands.. They'll pick it up.. It's too simple to not include!

[Pooshka]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

[Peace]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

File a bug report with radar.;)

[2Shae]

I like it!

Looks more modern :p

[Lokheed]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

Dragging it to an app in the Dock also does nothing... lame bug!

[not-available]

Dragging an app to the trash from a stack DOES work, you just need to cmd+backspace 1 file from the finder, restore it, and then you can trash as many stuff from the stacks you want.

And, I think the Battery Charged icon in the menubar has changed, because it looks much more round. Another bug is that the grid view of the desktop doesn't work. Newly mounted drives however show up in the top-left corner of the screen with only 1 corner of the drive icon visible.

Also, the mouse freezes are solved.

[neski]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

You might want to reinstall i dont have this problem.

[Mr-Stabby]

Looking at that YouTube video of WMV playback, it looks as though Apple have developed their own WMV playback, or at least bought Flip4Mac and made it better, because it seems to be a lot quicker at loading and playing movies looking at that clip.

How far does the support for WMV go though? Could we even expect DRM support?

[Nightkrawler]

Instant Search (first demonstrated by Microsoft in 2002 but taken to market first by Apple) ...

instant search was also in Copland OS in 1995 (http://lowendmac.com/orchard/05/1108.html).
Had Copland been released, it would have been the first OS to provide live searches in the toolbar.

In the patent application for Spotlight, Apple appears to have used diagrams from Copland's interface. The Copland search tool indexed all files on the computer and allowed users to search for a specific string of text. It would display the results and even determine the relevancy according to the number of times the string appeared in the document.

Apple released the first beta version of Copland to developers in November 1995.

[drunifex]

Filevault seems to have had some architectural changes to. Seems the /Users/.USERNAME only appears on logon now it seems to be dynamically mounted on demand from somewhere else.

[tchek]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

+1 (MacBookPro4,1)

And :

Drag and drop a selected message from Entourage (12.1.9) to the Desktop do no work.

[Thunder82]

Bug found: moving an item from an open stack to the trash does nothing.

I have this same problem as well... Definitely threw me for a loop the first time I tried :)

[DELTAsnake]

I like the new contextual menu. I find white text on black background easier to read.

[isaaclimdc]

I have this same problem as well... Definitely threw me for a loop the first time I tried :)

Yup, we all seem to be experiencing this same issue. Apple needs to fix this pronto!

[Thex1138]

:apple: MacBook Tablet :D

[*LTD*]

instant search was also in Copland OS in 1995 (http://lowendmac.com/orchard/05/1108.html).

As odd as this may sound, I kind of miss those days. I loved System 7-7.5 on my pizza box PowerPC 6100/60. Mac gaming wasn't bad at all back then . . . when Mac games were ported over to Windows. Yes, there was a time when that actually happened. ;)

I remember unboxing my 6100/60 and then firing it up for the first time and thought System 7 was just brilliant. Picked up a copy of Myst soon after and I was in computing heaven. Good times.

[gianly1985]

Since a lot of you people here are trying it, what can you tell me about Quicktime X hardware h.264 acceleration? Is it true that it is supported by 9400M alone (as stated on SL page (http://img.skitch.com/20090711-mph7ub1mefy66h8psgba12kjd4.jpg)) or it DOES (noticeably) work with 9600gt, gt120, gt130, ati4850, ecc.? Can you try to play an heavy 1080p mkv (with perian?) coded in h.264?

[BRLawyer]

As odd as this may sound, I kind of miss those days. I loved System 7-7.5 on my pizza box PowerPC 6100/60. Mac gaming wasn't bad at all back then . . . when Mac games were ported over to Windows. Yes, there was a time when that actually happened. ;)

I remember unboxing my 6100/60 and then firing it up for the first time and thought System 7 was just brilliant. Picked up a copy of Myst soon after and I was in computing heaven. Good times.

Yep, good times indeed...me and my pizza box Quadra 605 with System 7 and then 8, the beginnings of Internet and the heyday of BBSs, excellent Mac games that were later ported to Windows (top among them were Marathon, Marathon II, Realmz). A time when computing was simpler.

[Nitrocide]

Yep, good times indeed...me and my pizza box Quadra 605 with System 7 and then 8, the beginnings of Internet and the heyday of BBSs, excellent Mac games that were later ported to Windows (top among them were Marathon, Marathon II, Realmz). A time when computing was simpler.

Yadayada move over grandad(s). Make a new thread someplace and go reminisce on "the good old days" there will ya;)?

[*LTD*]

Yadayada move over grandad(s). Make a new thread someplace and go reminisce on "the good old days" there will ya;)?

Hehe, and it wasn't even called "Mac OS" back then!

Anyway, excuse me while I go look at my Stylewriter II that I've lovingly preserved . . . ;)

[Lixivial]

instant search was also in Copland OS in 1995 (http://lowendmac.com/orchard/05/1108.html).

Indeed, and it's actually quite interesting just how long Apple has been in this arena. Despite Copland being canned, a lot of the proposed technology actually was seeded into Mac OS 8.5 and 9 by way of Sherlock. Spotlight really is a culmination of iterative improvements to shipping technologies, based on Doug Cutting and the ATG Information Access Group (http://www.wizards-of-os.org/archiv/sprecher/a_c/doug_cutting.html)'s project, V-Twin, that date back to '96.

In 1996, Apple first shipped (see section 3.3) (http://ils.unc.edu/ISSS/papers/papers/rose.pdf) betas of Apple e.g. (http://web.archive.org/web/19961101234009/www.cybertech.apple.com/apple_eg.html), which allowed easy indexing of Apple web servers. Sherlock also used it when it was introduced in Mac OS 8.5 in 1998. It was exposed as an API by way of Apple Information Access Toolkit (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/SearchKitConcepts/searchKit_glossary/searchKit_glossary.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002845-BAJJECHA), and, in Panther, by means of Search Kit (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/SearchKitConcepts/searchKit_intro/searchKit_intro.html).

Of course, I'm not asserting that 1996's product is anything near what Spotlight is, but Apple really has been refining that end of their search for quite a long time, and a lot of what they set out to do in Copland for search actually did ship prior to Mac OS X. But, then, I'm sure it's just been a natural progression, and I'm sure Microsoft had been making similar iterative improvements to search.

[beestigbeestje]

I don't feel much of a speed increase.. It even gets very laggy when copying files from and to an external HD

[*LTD*]

Indeed, and it's actually quite interesting just how long Apple has been in this arena. Despite Copland being canned, a lot of the proposed technology actually was seeded into Mac OS 8.5 and 9 by way of Sherlock. Spotlight really is a culmination of iterative improvements to shipping technologies, based on Doug Cutting and the ATG Information Access Group (http://www.wizards-of-os.org/archiv/sprecher/a_c/doug_cutting.html)'s project, V-Twin, that date back to '96.

In 1996, Apple first shipped (see section 3.3) (http://ils.unc.edu/ISSS/papers/papers/rose.pdf) betas of Apple e.g. (http://web.archive.org/web/19961101234009/www.cybertech.apple.com/apple_eg.html), which allowed easy indexing of Apple web servers. Sherlock also used it when it was introduced in Mac OS 8.5 in 1998. It was exposed as an API by way of Apple Information Access Toolkit (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/SearchKitConcepts/searchKit_glossary/searchKit_glossary.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002845-BAJJECHA), and, in Panther, by means of Search Kit (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/SearchKitConcepts/searchKit_intro/searchKit_intro.html).

Of course, I'm not asserting that 1996's product is anything near what Spotlight is, but Apple really has been refining that end of their search for quite a long time, and a lot of what they set out to do in Copland for search actually did ship prior to Mac OS X. But, then, I'm sure it's just been a natural progression, and I'm sure Microsoft had been making similar iterative improvements to search.

Informative post. Thanks.

[kemo]

I don't feel much of a speed increase.. It even gets very laggy when copying files from and to an external HD

Dont know what's wrong with ur computer by I'm copying about 100gigs to my external drive and also making whole backup to time machine and all is going fine - I think almost same speed before I started - so I have to say, when I was running 10.5.x It were see some lags but now Im totally satisfied with speed..

[EmperorDarius]

I find the "Marble" theme extremely ugly. I hope they keep the Aqua theme, it really looks good.

[isaaclimdc]

I find the "Marble" theme extremely ugly. I hope they keep the Aqua theme, it really looks good.

I don't like this new HUD black theme (whether or not this is called "marble"), but I don't like Tiger's Aqua either (that's too old fashioned). Leopard's "unified" theme is just right =)

[Sky Blue]

I find the "Marble" theme extremely ugly.

There is no Marble theme.

[Goona]

Do you still have to log out to switch cards?

[EmperorDarius]

There is no Marble theme.

I mean this kind of appearance:

http://mickerlodeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/snowleopard-marble.jpg

[masse]

I mean this kind of appearance:

http://mickerlodeon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/snowleopard-marble.jpg

Yeah I agree that's hideous. Its interesting when I watched leopard videos while using Tiger I was so impressed and what I had felt clunky and old.

I'm starting to feel that way with leopard. Even though its not any different than before I saw all this SL stuff.... Weird how that works.

[Project]

The black pop up menus and HUDs in iMovie are just gorgeous. I'm glad to see that start to infiltrate the OS

[HLdan]

The black pop up menus and HUDs in iMovie are just gorgeous. I'm glad to see that start to infiltrate the OS

Agreed, I hope they do this system wide. :)

[ColinM]

Looking at that YouTube video of WMV playback, it looks as though Apple have developed their own WMV playback, or at least bought Flip4Mac and made it better, because it seems to be a lot quicker at loading and playing movies looking at that clip.

How far does the support for WMV go though? Could we even expect DRM support?

Ugh. Thought I made that video private. Ah well. *goes to do so*

I was actually wrong. There were still leftover components when I uninstalled, so it actually does not support .wmv without Flip4Mac.

[RiverFox]

Anyone having issues with FireFox 3.5 crashing frequently? It's never crashed before on Leopard and now I get 3-4 crashes a day with SL.

[sexyfoolxx]

Anyone having issues with FireFox 3.5 crashing frequently? It's never crashed before on Leopard and now I get 3-4 crashes a day with SL.

YES! Every time I click on the "Help" menu it crashes. If firefox was recently opened (or crashed and restarted) the menu works with no problems, but after surfing for a bit, it'll crash every single time. This never happened with the nightly builds either, as I would click "help" --> "check for updates" frequently. :confused:

[Fnkybach]

Has anyone else lost the battery condition... mine was saying that i needed to get it check out but it have since disappeared...

Yea, my bad battery condition went away and I appear to now have the same battery life that I did in Leopard.

[flottenheimer]

Originally Posted by Mr-Stabby
Looking at that YouTube video of WMV playback, it looks as though Apple have developed their own WMV playback, or at least bought Flip4Mac and made it better, because it seems to be a lot quicker at loading and playing movies looking at that clip.

How far does the support for WMV go though? Could we even expect DRM support?

Native WMV support in SL? What? Where? Tell me more... WMV with DRM support would make me a very happy person indeed. In Denmark we have a lot of great web services/sites that require WMV/DRM (fx. YouSee webTV, TDC Play, TV2, nutv.dk and to some extent DR1).

The lack of real WMV/DRM on Mac is currently the best argument for not making friends switch...

[Fnkybach]

I noticed in the previous build that my mouse would suddenly stop and not move on my screen I could still command+tab through windows but my mouse would stay stuck for about ten minutes, so far I have not experienced the same problem with this build.

macbook pro 2.4ghz 4Gb ram.

[slackpacker]

Native WMV support in SL? What? Where? Tell me more... WMV with DRM support would make me a very happy person indeed. In Denmark we have a lot of great web services/sites that require WMV/DRM (fx. YouSee webTV, TDC Play, TV2, nutv.dk and to some extent DR1).

The lack of real WMV/DRM on Mac is currently the best argument for not making friends switch...

I think its just an included safari plug-in

[cibi3d]

The new Finder window slider button is the same iTunes has for volume control.

[NathanCH]

I've heard that since the update Safari has been crashing frequently. Of course it's beta, but that can't be a good sign this late

[NT1440]

Isn't WMV windows proprietary video format? Why would anyone want to support that?

[DMann]

Hehe, and it wasn't even called "Mac OS" back then!

Anyway, excuse me while I go look at my Stylewriter II that I've lovingly preserved . . . ;)

Still have 2 LaserWriter IIs, a Quadra 650, 950 with AV input & output with Radius cards for movie editing, and 13" & 17" Apple CRT AV Monitors. System 7 - 7.5 in the '90s was awesome - even MS Word 5.1 rocked back then, and was better then than it is today. With a 4800 baud modem, and a dedicated phone line, the sky was the limit - there was nothing this setup could not do - great times, indeed!

[EmperorDarius]

The new Finder window slider button is the same iTunes has for volume control.

Yeah that kinda makes sense.

[Eidorian]

Isn't WMV windows proprietary video format? Why would anyone want to support that?You could "insert proprietary file format here" and ask the same question. I like having support for as much as possible.

[PaperMacWriter]

what theme is this? i want this theme :)
The one that I replied to, or the ones I talked about? none of them are real, all just concepts...
At least I'm moralistic and altruistic enough to drop by the post office each day to deposit .44 for each and every e-mail I send out online. The nerve of these relentless scofflaws, blatantly bypassing and stealing the profits rightfully due to the USPS! :mad:Please tell me thats a joke....

SG:apple:

[NathanCH]

Isn't WMV windows proprietary video format? Why would anyone want to support that?

Wait... QuickTime X doesn't support WMV by default? Is it still just .mov and other formats rarely used?

I remember hearing it was going to be the best player ever.

[mr miyagi]

Does anyone know if this beta version of snow leopard has fixed the resolution bug that some mac mini users faced who tried to update up 10.5.7?

[Poirot818]

It's amazing how many people took that comment seriously...EVEN if he wanted he wouldn't be able to pay more to Apple...they would send the check back to his house. Go figure, people...

I can't believe you even thought of something that dumb. Wasn't it obvious that the guy was going to pay the full $129 for SL and not the $29 upgrade from Leopard price? What was going on through your head that you imagined that he would actually send a check to Apple for more money than was required?

On a side note, I see no difference when changing the "Font smoothing style" in Leopard, neither on the Macbook's display, nor on the external. Maybe that's why they took it out?

Did you log out? I can see a pretty big difference between light and strong.

edit: Nevermind, someone already pointed this out.

[Raineer]

It does that in Leopard right now. :)


I like the new white text on black dock menus, very swish.

From what I have seen they have put some of the contextual items from leopard into the "options" menu when you click dock items. That seems kind of silly to me because they are increasing the amount of clicks to access items.

Not the same way it does in SL. In Leopard, System Preferences has to be running in order for that to happen. The screenshot on SL shows System Preferences closed. This is a welcome change.

[DMann]

Please tell me thats a joke....

SG:apple:Just trying to keep up with the self-righteous preaching minority who have been ranting about how downloading the SL beta is stealing and unlawful. I doubt very much that Apple would reject the feedback of those who have downloaded it for testing, most of who intend to purchase it once it is made available for purchase.

Speaking of law, in the state of Washington, there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night)

[Krafty]

Wish I could install iLeopard on this thing, I was hoping it would stick through the upgrade.

[bobertoq]

It's amazing how many people took that comment seriously...EVEN if he wanted he wouldn't be able to pay more to Apple...they would send the check back to his house. Go figure, people...I don't know for sure, but I would assume Apple would sell a $129 disk and a $29 disk. If you had Tiger but you bought the $29 upgrade disk it wouldn't let you upgrade. At least that's what would make sense to me, it seems easier than checking back to someone's house.

[dannster]

Have all the changes been noted on the MacRumors article? Or have there been more discoveries?

I would like to know what's new in this latest build if anyone could list them please? :)

[twump]

10A402 has fixed many of Expose's quirks, especially with dock hiding enabled. Spaces is much smoother now as well.

I am running the most recent build of Snow Leopard and loving it! Here's a few issues I'm having. Let me know if you have them too or know of a solution.

1. Handbrake will not rip DVDs correctly. Either it crashes, or the video comes out distorted.

2., right clicking on a misspelled word to bring up the menu with the correct spelling is painfully, unusably slow.

3. I don't know if this is unique to SL, but scrolling through a multi-paged PDF refreshes with a lot of lag.

Will we be able to use migration assistant with Time Machine to transfer files and settings to the retail version on SL once we buy and install it in September?

[Jeremy08]

Had a couple questions..
First is, I am running leopard on my aluminum macbook. If i wanted to go find a copy of the latest build of snow leopard, then would all I have to do is just a time machine backup and then i can restore from that once i install snow leopard, and also do i have to reformat?
Second question is whether or not i have to be a registered developer or if i can just go get a copy of the build off of some torrent site or something?

[Krafty]

Had a couple questions..
First is, I am running leopard on my aluminum macbook. If i wanted to go find a copy of the latest build of snow leopard, then would all I have to do is just a time machine backup and then i can restore from that once i install snow leopard, and also do i have to reformat?
Second question is whether or not i have to be a registered developer or if i can just go get a copy of the build off of some torrent site or something?

Or you can just update from Leopard.

And it's whatever, but talking about illegitimate ways to get it here is going to annoy more people than sex with a crack whore with the sniffles.

[Nitrocide]

Just trying to keep up with the self-righteous preaching minority who have been ranting about how downloading the SL beta is stealing and unlawful. I doubt very much that Apple would reject the feedback of those who have downloaded it for testing, most of who intend to purchase it once it is made available for purchase.

Speaking of law, in the state of Washington, there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night)

Amen... and nice factoid :D

[Nitrocide]

Had a couple questions..
First is, I am running leopard on my aluminum macbook. If i wanted to go find a copy of the latest build of snow leopard, then would all I have to do is just a time machine backup and then i can restore from that once i install snow leopard, and also do i have to reformat?
Second question is whether or not i have to be a registered developer or if i can just go get a copy of the build off of some torrent site or something?

1st, i believe you should be able to upgrade from the installer and it move your files automatically.

2nd, yes you need to be a registered developer to get the developer preview for snow leopard however, i believe it is available on the webs, cant give you any hints as to where but where theres a will theres a way!

[twump]

Had a couple questions..
First is, I am running leopard on my aluminum macbook. If i wanted to go find a copy of the latest build of snow leopard, then would all I have to do is just a time machine backup and then i can restore from that once i install snow leopard, and also do i have to reformat?

Second question is whether or not i have to be a registered developer or if i can just go get a copy of the build off of some torrent site or something?

No reformat necessary. You can revert to Leopard using a time machine backup. Someone check me on this, but it may not restore all your files since the backup however.

Well, technically you could grab it from a torrent. It took me about 20 hours to download from about 30 rapidshare links. However, the only way apple has distributed it is to WWDC attendees and certain paying devs. As far as I can tell, however, it is not illegal to run Snow Leopard if you are not a dev. I am a free developer for Apple just to be safe.

Does that help?

[zerostar]

So I did some Xbench testing in 10.6 and 10.5 same machine

iMac 24" 2.4GHz Radeon HD 2600 (no Core Image support)
4GB Ram is the only addition.

I left the disk test off since 10.5 is on a Western Digiatl Black 1TB and 10.6 is on a Firewire 800 External 7200.12

RESULTS

10.6 total score 173
10.5 total score 189

10.6 CPU 169
Floating Point 267

10.5 CPU 150
Floating Point 150

10.6 Memory 166
10.5 Memory 163

10.6 Quartz 189
10.5 Quartz 196

10.6 Open GL 115
10.5 Open GL 179

10.6 UI Test 294
10.5 UI Test 341

Find it interesting that 10.5 beats 10.6 overall (obviously 10.6 needs more optimization and that is impressive considering how FAST it is over 10.5) BUT 10.6 squashes 10.5 in Floating Point *BADLY!* Although all things GPU Quartz/OpenGL/UI were won by 10.5

10.6 is a tad better with this new update, so I am interested to see if raw test performance gets better than 10.5 anytime soon...

p.s. I am attaching the 2 full tests (these were the average results over 20 tests in each OS)

[Quillz]

Have all the changes been noted on the MacRumors article? Or have there been more discoveries?

I would like to know what's new in this latest build if anyone could list them please? :)
Here's something extremely minor...

In older SL builds, the new screenshot file format was Screenshot on x.x.x at y.y.y.png. In the most recent build, it's been changed to Screen shot x.x.x at y.y.y.png.

Personally, I think I liked the older builds' default file format name.

[TooBadSoSad]

So I did some Xbench testing in 10.6 and 10.5 same machine

iMac 24" 2.4GHz Radeon HD 2600 (no Core Image support)
4GB Ram is the only addition.

I left the disk test off since 10.5 is on a Western Digiatl Black 1TB and 10.6 is on a Firewire 800 External 7200.12

RESULTS

10.6 total score 173
10.5 total score 189

10.6 CPU 169
Floating Point 267

10.5 CPU 150
Floating Point 150

10.6 Memory 166
10.5 Memory 163

10.6 Quartz 189
10.5 Quartz 196

10.6 Open GL 115
10.5 Open GL 179

10.6 UI Test 294
10.5 UI Test 341

Find it interesting that 10.5 beats 10.6 overall (obviously 10.6 needs more optimization and that is impressive considering how FAST it is over 10.5) BUT 10.6 squashes 10.5 in Floating Point *BADLY!* Although all things GPU Quartz/OpenGL/UI were won by 10.5

10.6 is a tad better with this new update, so I am interested to see if raw test performance gets better than 10.5 anytime soon...

p.s. I am attaching the 2 full tests (these were the average results over 20 tests in each OS)

Very interesting. I suspect the GPU results are due to suboptimal drivers. I know in the previous build the 9400M performance was horrible for 3D.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Very interesting. I suspect the GPU results are due to suboptimal drivers. I know in the previous build the 9400M performance was horrible for 3D.

Not to mention surely a bunch of dubug code.

[mr miyagi]

guess no one knows, if it fixes mac mini 10.5.7 resolution issues.

[Krafty]

guess no one knows, if it fixes mac mini 10.5.7 resolution issues.

I never had resolution problems with 10.5.7 or this build on my 09 Mini.

[kikuchiyo]

There is no Marble UI.

Says you. Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball says there probably is and considering he's right so much of the time I am inclined to agree.

Plus while it didn't make Snow Leopard, you would have to be blind to not see the shifts the OS X UI is making.

[Krafty]

Says you. Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball says there probably is and considering he's right so much of the time I am inclined to agree.

Plus while it didn't make Snow Leopard, you would have to be blind to not see the shifts the OS X UI is making.
Oh, so Apple did say the UI is called "marble"? I didnt know that http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/images/smilies/glare.gif

[guydude193]

I'm hoping that menu is the hint to Marble. We've seen that background/color combo in the iPhone, iLife '09, and now this. I love it! :D:apple::apple:

[kikuchiyo]

Oh, so Apple did say the UI is called "marble"? I didnt know that http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/images/smilies/glare.gif

The code name didn't come out of thin air. From what I have read, I got the impression that that's what they are calling it internally, but I couldn't point you to a specific citation of that.

In any case, Gruber is pretty well connected (http://daringfireball.net/2009/06/wwdc_2009_predictions). If he says there is a Marble interface in the works (and the good money is that there is - Apple's UI team is not sitting on its laurels), I am inclined to believe him.

EDIT: Actually I can cite that -
"The name I’ve heard for the new theme: Marble. Make of that what you will."
Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/2009/01/macworld_expo_predictions)

[pdjudd]

Oh, so Apple did say the UI is called "marble"? I didnt know that http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/images/smilies/glare.gif

No. Apple has never used the word "marble" in any of their PR or announcements of their OS. Marble was first speculated by the rumor mills.

Now I am very sure that Apple is constantly at work with the overall interface, but there is no way to know what Apple is calling us until they make some sort of an announcement.

[slackpacker]

So I did some Xbench testing in 10.6 and 10.5 same machine

iMac 24" 2.4GHz Radeon HD 2600 (no Core Image support)
4GB Ram is the only addition.

I left the disk test off since 10.5 is on a Western Digiatl Black 1TB and 10.6 is on a Firewire 800 External 7200.12

RESULTS

10.6 total score 173
10.5 total score 189

10.6 CPU 169
Floating Point 267

10.5 CPU 150
Floating Point 150

10.6 Memory 166
10.5 Memory 163

10.6 Quartz 189
10.5 Quartz 196

10.6 Open GL 115
10.5 Open GL 179

10.6 UI Test 294
10.5 UI Test 341

Find it interesting that 10.5 beats 10.6 overall (obviously 10.6 needs more optimization and that is impressive considering how FAST it is over 10.5) BUT 10.6 squashes 10.5 in Floating Point *BADLY!* Although all things GPU Quartz/OpenGL/UI were won by 10.5

10.6 is a tad better with this new update, so I am interested to see if raw test performance gets better than 10.5 anytime soon...

p.s. I am attaching the 2 full tests (these were the average results over 20 tests in each OS)

LETS JUST SAY XBENCH IS TO OLD FOR RELIABLE TESTING IN BILLY MAYS
LETS JUST SAY XBENCH IS TO OLD FOR RELIABLE TESTING IN BILLY MAYS
LETS JUST SAY XBENCH IS TO OLD FOR RELIABLE TESTING IN BILLY MAYS
LETS JUST SAY XBENCH IS TO OLD FOR RELIABLE TESTING IN BILLY MAYS

[kikuchiyo]

Oh, so Apple did say the UI is called "marble"? I didnt know that http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/images/smilies/glare.gif

They don't have to announce it anyway. it could just be an internal code name, like the code names from Roman mythology used for the 10.5 updates, that aren't meant as retail or official names.

[Krafty]

No. Apple has never used the word "marble" in any of their PR or announcements of their OS. Marble was first speculated by the rumor mills.

Now I am very sure that Apple is constantly at work with the overall interface, but there is no way to know what Apple is calling us until they make some sort of an announcement.

First you say "internally" and now "rumor mills."

Well, then I'm naming the next UI.




















































Geometricaliytic.

[pdjudd]

Wait... QuickTime X doesn't support WMV by default? Is it still just .mov and other formats rarely used?

I remember hearing it was going to be the best player ever.

Blame Microsoft, they own the WMV (and WMA) formats and determine who can play that back by licensing it out. Apple can't implement it directly without permission from Microsoft. Of course Telestream (makers of Flip4Mac) have licensed the codecs (the non-DRMed ones at least) from Microsoft so there is no need for Apple to license a proprietary codec from a rival. The only other way that this could happen would be for Apple to reverse engineer those formats - a process that they view as a waste.

There is no way that Apple can get support for every format in Quicktime - it just won't happen - not practical. Second: I don't know how one can consider WMV or its cousin WMA to be any good formats. Their sole intention w to be a proprietary alternative to MPEG and MP3. Overall those closed Microsoft formats have been heavily criticized as inferior compared to the more modern formats. Thats what Quicktime X was supposed to be about support. See here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/#quicktimex):


Snow Leopard introduces QuickTime X, a major leap forward that advances modern media and Internet standards. QuickTime X includes a brand-new player application, offers optimized support for modern codecs, and delivers more efficient media playback, making it ideal for any application that needs to play media content.

It has never been touted as supporting everything. I think you misunderstood what it's intention is supposed to be.

[slackpacker]

I've heard that since the update Safari has been crashing frequently. Of course it's beta, but that can't be a good sign this late

You heard wrong

[Sevenfeet]

I have Leopard, but I'll be buying Snow Leopard for $129 instead of $29 because it's worth way more than that to me, and a healthy markup is what allowed Apple to become what they are, so I will continue to do my part. Thanks for your hard work, Apple. Keep it up.

As ridiculous as this might sound today, at one point in time a lot of us did this. Shortly after Steve Jobs returned to Apple, he killed the long time practice of Apple not charging for new major software updates. A lot of us griped about it but Apple needed the money. Badly. I think the update was System 8.5 and we all went out and bought it whether we needed it or not because Apple was hemmoraging money. They had 4 billion dollars in the bank and plummenting. The revenue they got from that as well as a $150 million cash infusion from Microsoft allowed Apple to have enough capital to get their house in order. The iMac and iPod would come next, and as they say, the rest is history.

Nowadays, Apple has $30 billion lying around and $150 million is chump change. I think you can keep your $100 (especially in this economy) and use it somewhere more important.

[kikuchiyo]

First you say "internally" and now "rumor mills."


pdjudd said rumor mill but I said Gruber and frankly, he seems to know more than you do.

He's not a rumor mill - as I said, he seems to be both well connected and well respected inside and outside of Apple.

[Krafty]

pdjudd said rumor mill but I said Gruber and frankly, he seems to know more than you do.

He's not a rumor mill - as I said, he seems to be both well connected and well respected inside and outside of Apple.
Yeah.
...


I'm still going with my name for the next UI.

[Sevenfeet]

(I'm crossposting this from Appleinsider from what I wrote earlier today and adding comments about the graphics drivers)

One thing that had particularly interested me about Snow Leopard was the changes to Quicktime. I had noticed performance improvements when I played HD H.264 flim clips on my Mac Mini 2009 with has the Geforce 9400M (the only graphics chip so far in SL to have H.264 acceleration in silicon). But what I was really interested in was what Quicktime 10 could do for lesser machines.

In addition to the Mac Mini, we have a 2007 15" Macbook Pro Santa Rosa with Geforce 8600 graphics, and a 2006 Blackbook (2 Ghz Core Duo, Intel graphics). Recently I was transferring some episodes of my son's favorite show (Mickey Mouse Clubhouse) off my Tivo Series 3 in preparation for a family trip. Disney Channel HD broadcasts the show in 720p and the resolution of my Blackbook is 1280x800. Although the Blackbook had no problems playing 720p movie clips from Apple's Quicktime movie preview site, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse never played well on this machine. The Core 2 Duo Macs in the house didn't have this problem.

In making the MP4 file, although I own Toast 9 which allows you to rip an episode from a Tivo legally for personal use, I decided to use iTivo and let Handbrake do the job. Using the Apple Universal setting, the movie was reencoded for 5.2 Mbit/sec quality and no change in resolution. If the Blackbook under Leopard 10.5.7 played the clip, it dropped a ton of frames and was completely unwatchable. Under the WWDC version of Snow Leopard, the results were pretty much the same. The recent 10A390 update didn't change much.

But the new 10A402 release changed all that and in the process, I finally realized why the clip was so difficult to play. Disney broadcasts the show in 720p/60fps, not the 30 fps that you typically see in iTunes or Apple.com clips. With having the stuff the pipe at twice the frame rate, I understood what the problem was now. But Snow Leopard 10A420 can now play the clip without dropping frames on this lesser Mac.

There is one catch: you must play it in full screen mode (command-F) in order to get proper performance. But it's still amazing that a 720p/60fps H.264 movie is running so well on 3 year old hardware. During playback, Activity Monitor shows about 50-60% utilization on both cores. One other thing is that people on this forum have noticed improvements in the Intel GMA graphics drivers. I'm sure if that's the case that it may have a positive effect on what I'm seeing. Regardless, I'll be revisiting Snow Leopard on my Mac Mini to see if performance on the Geforce 9400M graphics system has improved as well.

[pdjudd]

pdjudd said rumor mill but I said Gruber and frankly, he seems to know more than you do.

He's not a rumor mill - as I said, he seems to be both well connected and well respected inside and outside of Apple.

I am not calling Grueber a Rumor Mill. I was using that term as a general coverall to people who spread rumors - people that does include Grueber since (as far as I am aware) does not work for Apple and does not posses any special information.

Gueber is a blogger who, like MacRumors, like to make rumors. We have no idea what the next interface that OSX will use (an interface that I already said is most likely being developed).

It was the rumor mill that:
a) called it Marble - a name that nobody in Apple confirms exists and is the source of wild speculation as to what it means. Code words are meaningless since we never know what they mean - it can mean anything.
b) Will be in Snow Leopard - we know that this is most likely false since Apple themselves during WWDC said that the interface will be the same.

To be clear - I am not denying that Apple is working on a new interface. What Apple calls is and how or wether or not it will be used is not known and is part of the rumor mill. They probably are. However I was classifying the people speculating on this whole "marble" thing as rumor. We don't know what Apple plans on doing for it's OS. Anybody who claims that and is not an employee at Apple on their OS division is part of the rumor mill - regardless of who they are or how much they are respected or who their connections are. People can be wrong and have been before. We don't now what "Marble" means because Apple uses code words all the time. We can be sure that Apple is working on interface - thats obvious based on programs like iTunes - but I think we can get over it for now.

If "Marble" is some kind of interface, which nobody but Apple knows for sure, it probably will not make it into Snow Leopard on a large scale. Apple already said during WWDC that there is no interface change and it did not make it to the WWDC builds - which were touted as feature complete. Apple isn't going to drop a change like that unless they announce it first - like WWDC.

[gianly1985]

One thing that had particularly interested me about Snow Leopard was the changes to Quicktime. I had noticed performance improvements when I played HD H.264 flim clips on my Mac Mini 2009 with has the Geforce 9400M (the only graphics chip so far in SL to have H.264 acceleration in silicon)

YES! I've waited for so long to read this! You've made millions of MacMini2009_as_a_HTPC owners happy! No more stuttering in 1080p h.264 MKVs playback! (I hope...)
I'm counting days till September 25....

(the only graphics chip so far in SL to have H.264 acceleration in silicon)
So is this confirmed? What about GT120/GT130/4850 iMacs, can they use the "never_mentioned" 9400M gpu which is hidden in their motherboard??

[slackpacker]

YES! I've waited for so long to read this! You've made millions of MacMini2009_as_a_HTPC owners happy! No more stuttering in 1080p h.264 MKVs playback! (I hope...)
I'm counting days till September 25....


So is this confirmed? What about GT120/GT130/4850 iMacs, can they use the "never_mentioned" 9400M gpu which is hidden in their motherboard??

Yes it does

[leeyuentuen]

some screenshot of the last version of snow leopard for developers
http://deboeddha.eu/Tuen/home/?p=33

[Peace]

The "marble" theme has also been referred to as "Illuminance".

As I said about. I dunno a year ago. If any developer. That is a person that has been a full member of the ADC for more than a year knows. There is an example called either "recipes" or "menu".

This example shows the illuminance and the layers used.

The new dock is an example..

And.

The reason spaces seems so funky and the new lists/grid/fan view is because right click is coming to those in another build.

We are seeing "marble" right now.

It's simply layers of illuminance..Perhaps that's where Gruber got confused.

[iAlexG]

WOW each build keeps getting better and better for $10 you can't go wrong

[cohibadad]

I have Leopard, but I'll be buying Snow Leopard for $129 instead of $29 because it's worth way more than that to me, and a healthy markup is what allowed Apple to become what they are, so I will continue to do my part. Thanks for your hard work, Apple. Keep it up.

I have no problem with anyone willing to pay for something they appreciate and value. Snow Leopard is worth it, but the best reason to buy the $129 version is so you won't have to install Leopard before Snow Leopard if you ever need to start from scratch.

[*LTD*]

Still have 2 LaserWriter IIs, a Quadra 650, 950 with AV input & output with Radius cards for movie editing, and 13" & 17" Apple CRT AV Monitors. System 7 - 7.5 in the '90s was awesome - even MS Word 5.1 rocked back then, and was better then than it is today. With a 4800 baud modem, and a dedicated phone line, the sky was the limit - there was nothing this setup could not do - great times, indeed!

I remember using ClarisWorks a lot. I was in high school at the time 1994, 1995, etc., and I used to do presentations in ClarisWorks and actually bring my Mac in to class and hook it up to a projector. I had music, animations, etc. I suppose PowerPoint could do the same things at the time, however.

Only thing that annoyed me about system 7 and 7.5 were loading all those exensions upon startup. I eventually upgraded to OS 8, but I can't remember whether that had to load extensions as well. Of course, it depended on what applications you had installed, but the more you had the more extensions had to load, i,e., sound manager, quicktime instruments, etc.

[stade1979]

The Time Machine backup and the time capsule is WOWWWWWWW the speed of that is incredible.

[Drag'nGT]

Is there an official list consolidating the changes/features we will expect in SL? Not what has been updated but what is going to be there.

[Eidorian]

I'd like to see a quick boot copy of OS X popped on your Time Machine drive so you could recover just using the drive. It's annoying to have to insert the OS X DVD in to restore from Time Machine.

[Sky Blue]

I'd like to see a quick boot copy of OS X popped on your Time Machine drive so you could recover just using the drive. It's annoying to have to insert the OS X DVD in to restore from Time Machine.

Just partition your time machine drive and restore the Install DVD to it. That's what I do.

[Eidorian]

Just partition your time machine drive and restore the Install DVD to it. That's what I do.But I don't want to? :rolleyes:

[Plymouthbreezer]

Let's pray it's as refined as we've all been salivating over.

[cocamouthwash]

Well personally I am still a Aqua fanatic. I am glad to see updates to the UI, but I don't personally like the idea of letting go too quickly.

But if they MUST replace Aqua eventually (which they must) I pray it won't be this so called "Marble" look. (Yes. I realize Marble is a product of the rumor mill)

It's ugly. It reminds me of the Luna team's version of a Mac OS X UI.

[simX]

Speaking of law, in the state of Washington, there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night)

Um, yeah, I'm just going to call ******** on that and assume you're speaking out of your ass. Citation needed, otherwise this is just as mythical as all of the other rumors about Apple coming out of the rumor mill.

Besides, even if a law is "on the books", it can still have already been struck down. It took Alabama three *decades* to repeal its law against interracial marriage that had been struck down in 1967. So just because a law is technically "on the books", it doesn't really necessarily mean anything. Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/al/main03.htm . OH SEE WHAT I DID THERE, I CITED A SOURCE! OMG!

I hate these "factoids" about "weird" laws. Most of them lack any citation whatsoever, and therefore are probably false and just perpetuated on the internets. Things like this need to stop, and people need to stop repeating them unless they can verify the claims.

[Ironduke]

Network Code is Still *******:mad:

[lacker]

can't wait for it to be out :D looks great.

[alvindarkness]

Anything on the Intel GMA drivers?

Not sure if you were asking about its 64bit-ness as that seems to be the main concern for most running SL betas on X3100's. But at the moment its still 32bit (in 10A402).. Video playback seems quite improved in this update though.

AppleIntelGMAX3100FB:

Version: 6.0.81
Last Modified: 10/07/09 6:32 PM
Get Info String: AppleIntelGMAX3100FB 6.0.81
Kind: Intel
Architectures: i386
64-Bit (Intel): No
Location: /System/Library/Extensions/AppleIntelGMAX3100FB.kext
Kext Version: 6.0.0

[Eidorian]

Not sure if you were asking about its 64bit-ness as that seems to be the main concern for most running SL betas on X3100's. But at the moment its still 32bit (in 10A402).. Video playback seems quite improved in this update though.

AppleIntelGMAX3100FB:

Version: 6.0.81
Last Modified: 10/07/09 6:32 PM
Get Info String: AppleIntelGMAX3100FB 6.0.81
Kind: Intel
Architectures: i386
64-Bit (Intel): No
Location: /System/Library/Extensions/AppleIntelGMAX3100FB.kext
Kext Version: 6.0.0Good to see an update on it. I'm disappointed there isn't a 64-bit one.

[EmperorDarius]

Well personally I am still a Aqua fanatic. I am glad to see updates to the UI, but I don't personally like the idea of letting go too quickly.

But if they MUST replace Aqua eventually (which they must) I pray it won't be this so called "Marble" look. (Yes. I realize Marble is a product of the rumor mill)

It's ugly. It reminds me of the Luna team's version of a Mac OS X UI.

Yeah, one think I like about Aqua is that it kinda looks...alive, organic. The Marble theme just looks plain and dead. Strange adjectives, I know, but that's exactly what I thought when I first saw them.

[Tsurisuto]

Still no preferences in QuickTime with this update. Which means that there is no way to get movies to auto start when you double-click them in Finder or when you enable full screen mode within the QuickTime player.

Also I miss the Command+2 option in QuickTime to double the size of the video being played.

[flottenheimer]

... I don't know how one can consider WMV or its cousin WMA to be any good formats. Their sole intention w to be a proprietary alternative to MPEG and MP3. Overall those closed Microsoft formats have been heavily criticized as inferior compared to the more modern formats...

As far as I have understood VMV/WMA+DRM offers the publisher a level of security not matched by any other formats. That's why most major danish TV broadcasters, the danish state library and TDC Play has choosen exactly that combo. Much to any Mac owners frustration.

Real WMV/WMA+DRM support on Mac is my #1 Mac OS feature wish. As the lack of it continues to cause daily problems when surfing online.

[str1f3]

[quote=pdjudd;8065264]... I don't know how one can consider WMV or its cousin WMA to be any good formats. Their sole intention w to be a proprietary alternative to MPEG and MP3. Overall those closed Microsoft formats have been heavily criticized as inferior compared to the more modern formats.../quote]

As far as I have understood VMV/WMA+DRM offers the publisher a level of security not matched by any other formats. That's why most major danish TV broadcasters, the danish state library and TDC Play has choosen exactly that combo. Much to any Mac owners frustration.

Real WMV/WMA+DRM support on Mac is my #1 Mac OS feature wish. As the lack of it continues to cause daily problems when surfing online.

I don't think it is possible to have DRM wmv/wma support because the DRM is tied to Windows itself which is the real reason why Microsoft does this. Since wmv/wma has failed, they have now moved to Silverlight as their next proprietary solution to control the web. In this case wmv is even worse than Flash. If they want to have secure streams to protect copyright, there are other ways.

[EmperorDarius]

As far as I have understood VMV/WMA+DRM offers the publisher a level of security not matched by any other formats. That's why most major danish TV broadcasters, the danish state library and TDC Play has choosen exactly that combo. Much to any Mac owners frustration.

Real WMV/WMA+DRM support on Mac is my #1 Mac OS feature wish. As the lack of it continues to cause daily problems when surfing online.

The less users use DRM...the better.

[webraider]

Is it true that Apple has disabled the Hard Drive Icons from the Desktop by Default? I know some people don't care for it but this is actually something I still like to use. I can drag a file onto the disk icon and it springs open. I have to hold down the space bar to drag it over the finder icon and if I'm dragging from a CD of DVD with no sidebar (yes, I know you can expand the sidebar), I have to open another finder window before I drag. If the Hard drive Icon is there.. I can drag straight to it. It works perfectly. I think Apple needs to change the behavior of the finder Icon in the Dock before the disable the Hard Disk Icon from the Desktop completely.

I understand that you can turn this feature on, but I can't help but wonder if Apple is trying to ween us from this altogether.

At any rate, why fix something that's not broken? I think it's still better to have them there. The idea is the Desktop shows you what you have to work with. I also can't help but think this is a competition with Windows 7's empty desktop appearance but Windows has never been "Volume friendly browsing" and the Mac has.

[Quillz]

Is it true that Apple has disabled the Hard Drive Icons from the Desktop by Default? I know some people don't care for it but this is actually something I still like to use. I can drag a file onto the disk icon and it springs open. I have to hold down the space bar to drag it over the finder icon and if I'm dragging from a CD of DVD with no sidebar (yes, I know you can expand the sidebar), I have to open another finder window before I drag. If the Hard drive Icon is there.. I can drag straight to it. It works perfectly. I think Apple needs to change the behavior of the finder Icon in the Dock before the disable the Hard Disk Icon from the Desktop completely.

I understand that you can turn this feature on, but I can't help but wonder if Apple is trying to ween us from this altogether.

At any rate, why fix something that's not broken? I think it's still better to have them there. The idea is the Desktop shows you what you have to work with. I also can't help but think this is a competition with Windows 7's empty desktop appearance but Windows has never been "Volume friendly browsing" and the Mac has.
I recall installing Snow Leopard build 10A380 (clean install), and the desktop icons were still there, so I don't think they've been hidden by default. But if they have, you just go into Finder -> Preferences and turn them back on. Takes all of 2-3 seconds.

And, no, I don't think they're trying to "copy" the Windows 7 desktop, they're just getting rid of clutter where possible. You have to remember that for every person who uses the desktop icons as you do, there are a thousand people who don't.

[intel]

The idea is the Desktop shows you what you have to work with. I also can't help but think this is a competition with Windows 7's empty desktop appearance but Windows has never been "Volume friendly browsing" and the Mac has.

Windows had cut paste and append folders since at least windows 3.1.

Mac finder still doesn't have it, SHAME. I would call this feature essential.

[EmperorDarius]

Windows had cut paste and append folders since at least windows 3.1.

Mac finder still doesn't have it, SHAME. I would call this feature essential.

Will you stop posting this stupid message about append folder over and over? It's just a feature which you can live without if you try, and certainly doesn't make Finder any worse than Windows Explorer.

[webraider]

Windows had cut paste and append folders since at least windows 3.1.

Mac finder still doesn't have it, SHAME. I would call this feature essential.

Um.. Yeah finder does have cut in paste.. what planet do you live on? When the heck will Windows loose it's dll, And Registry and Ween itself from File Extensions, and bundle it's programs into one Icon that users can re-name as they want put where they want and delete by simply dragging them to the trash??????

Get a life, get a Mac.

[webraider]

You have to remember that for every person who uses the desktop icons as you do, there are a thousand people who don't.

Thanks for you answer however in regards to your last comment, I'm assuming that you have emperical data to back up your assumption that most people do not use the desktop icons.

[intel]

You have to remember that for every person who uses the desktop icons as you do, there are a thousand people who don't.

Not aiming at you, but for every person that posts requesting an essential feature from apple, there are 200 000 other pple suffering in silence from this lack of feature, namely, cut and append to folders in Finder.


log in to file a bug report

Apple Bug Reporter

As an ADC member or Registered iPhone Developer, you may submit bug reports and enhancement requests on Apple products and track these submissions using the Apple Bug Reporter.


Only apple developer can submit bugs and "enhancement requests", so please, if you are an apple developer, please submit a request for append to folder when you cut and paste folders instead of overwriting - which deletes the whole folder and replaces with the other one. at least give us the option to append. if enough people request it, then steve jobs willing they will give in.

On a not so important note, can we place any file or object other than an open app anywhere on the doc - that would be an awesome enhancement. and so will be the ability to remove finder from the doc, to replace it with a folder instead.

From what i've seen, windows 7 is a little ahead in the feature department and prettiness than what SL is in it's current developer preview. I am curious, why did apple rush SL to be released before windows 7? I have a strange suspicion that they are feeling scared. I would be too, especially if such an essential feature like cut and appending folders is lacking from my file browser. even all flavours of hackzor linux has this essential requirement.

[intel]

Will you stop posting this stupid message about append folder over and over? It's just a feature which you can live without if you try, and certainly doesn't make Finder any worse than Windows Explorer.

Sure it does... it caused me to lose a lot of data. I am more pissed off that finder does not have cut and append than you are with me for posting how much i hate it... so i will continue.

[EmperorDarius]

Sure it does... it caused me to lose a lot of data. I am more pissed off that finder does not have cut and append than you are with me for posting how much i hate it... so i will continue.

It's your fault for not researching on how OS X works :rolleyes: And besides, don't cry over spilled milk, rather try not to make that mistake again.

Besides, wth are you saying, you CAN cut (or better move) in OS X.

[intel]

Um.. Yeah finder does have cut in paste.. what planet do you live on? When the heck will Windows loose it's dll, And Registry and Ween itself from File Extensions, and bundle it's programs into one Icon that users can re-name as they want put where they want and delete by simply dragging them to the trash??????

Get a life, get a Mac.

I got a life and i have a Mac, a good one. What i don't have are my essential files that finder caused me to lose. And if you read my post correctly, i'm after cut and paste with append to folders.

Here's a scenario for you.... you cut large folder from one drive to a network or usb drive... and it is about half way... then network fails, or finder times out.... what now?? half your files are one location, half at another. You go to paste that folder again... then half of your files - the ones that went through before the interruption - get deleted then the other half come through, and the end result is half the files you started with and no way to recover the lost files bcs they are on network drive. If you lost months of your work files in one little cut paste episode... u'd feel the same too.

[intel]

It's your fault for not researching on how OS X works :rolleyes: And besides, don't cry over spilled milk, rather try not to make that mistake again.

Besides, wth are you saying, you CAN cut (or better move) in OS X.

Correction - cut paste with append. Correction again.... it wasn't spilt milk, it was a small bag of diamonds, i'm down almost $30 000 because of it.

And from the research that i did before switching from windows to Mac was that mac's are more intuitive, even apple themselves claim the same. To delete a half coppied folder is not very intuitive. I love macs but we all need them to listen to what their customers need. and you know i'm not asking for much

[EmperorDarius]

Correction - cut paste with append. Correction again.... it wasn't spilt milk, it was a small bag of diamonds, i'm down almost $30 000 because of it.

And from the research that i did before switching from windows to Mac was that mac's are more intuitive, even apple themselves claim the same. To delete a half coppied folder is not very intuitive. I love macs but we all need them to listen to what their customers need. and you know i'm not asking for much

But Macs ARE more intuitive. But they are not Windows, so they work in a different way.

And about the scenario with the network drive, if you think it's dangerous to cut in that situation, just copy, paste and then delete the original drive. It's a longer way, but it's safer. And besides, Cut is definitely not a good choice. It's actually risky, and I can assure you that you could lose files with that too (If you're a Mac user who switched to Windows, for instance).

Append folders. It's not a big deal.

I'm sorry for what you lost, but that's only because you were used to "The Windows way" and OS X doesn't have to behave in the same way in order to be user friendly.

[dragossh]

Correction - cut paste with append.

Actually Unixes do it the right way. When you copy a file somewhere and there's another file with the same name, do you expect the file to be overwritten or not? I don't see why it should be different for folders.

[Krafty]

Will you stop posting this stupid message about append folder over and over? It's just a feature which you can live without if you try, and certainly doesn't make Finder any worse than Windows Explorer.

Don't feed the trolls.

[intel]

Actually Unixes do it the right way. When you copy a file somewhere and there's another file with the same name, do you expect the file to be overwritten or not? I don't see why it should be different for folders.

i would agree with you if files could be half copied over before the original is modified or deleted. when you cut folders, each individual file once moved, gets deleted therefore modifying the original folder being copied - before the operation is completed. I have never lost a file in windows with using cut, so it's not dangerous and it can be done and done right. This same perfection is not repeated by finder.

[kurosov]

Sure it does... it caused me to lose a lot of data. I am more pissed off that finder does not have cut and append than you are with me for posting how much i hate it... so i will continue.

This is just one of the many differences in the OSs. If they where to change it to work the way windows does after all these years then it would cause confusion with people moving from a snow leopard machine to another version of os x.

Mac users already know how finder works in this way and its mainly switchers who have trouble because they didn't bother to properly learn the new platform first.

If you lost months of your work files in one little cut paste episode... u'd feel the same too.

That is why copy, paste, delete is a better option. Indirect backup.

Correction - cut paste with append. Correction again.... it wasn't spilt milk, it was a small bag of diamonds, i'm down almost $30 000 because of it.


And yet you say

Mac's are nice but intelligence is better.

[mrchinchilla]

I have never lost a file in windows with using cut...

Then go and use Windows. Cut is useless, just move the file!

[iPhoneNYC]

It's so close. I'm ready. I I think the pricing structure is great.

[*LTD*]

Windows had cut paste and append folders since at least windows 3.1.

Mac finder still doesn't have it, SHAME. I would call this feature essential.

The scary thing is, you might actually believe what you're posting.

And judging by your sig, you're not really here to make a valuable contribution, are you?

[Stormalong]

When Leo was released and it would not show the sizes of found files and folders, I was amazed at Apple for leaving us blind in this area. To my delight, Apple has restored this function! Snow Leopard has many nice new features, and this was the first that gave me a big smile of relief. Let's hope for more tweaks like this. Kudos to 1 Infinite Loop!!!

[Nitrocide]

Get a life, get a Mac.

Not sure why, but this seems to cause me to to involuntarily vomit into my mouth just a little bit every time i read it, thought i should share y'know. Happening to anyone else?

[Nitrocide]

When Leo was released and it would not show the sizes of found files and folders, I was amazed at Apple for leaving us blind in this area. To my delight, Apple has restored this function! Snow Leopard has many nice new features, and this was the first that gave me a big smile of relief. Let's hope for more tweaks like this. Kudos to 1 Infinite Loop!!!

:D this gives me the big smile too. Small but it means a lot!

[Mr. Wonderful]

Not sure why, but this seems to cause me to to involuntarily vomit into my mouth just a little bit every time i read it, thought i should share y'know. Happening to anyone else?

No your oporating sysem suks!

[MDTyKe]

One thing I would LOVE (maybe it's already there?)

- If I am copying for example an Application, or an Aperture library. Say half way through, there's an error with 1 .jpg file. The whole thing stops (after me waiting hours, and 100GB later) and gives me an error *and* then deletes the mostly completed copy.

Can it not just, have a button to.. Continue and move on?


Matt

[gianly1985]

Yes it does

"Yes it does" what?

1) Yes QuicktimeX+9400M DOES still stutter in 1080p h.264 MKVs

2) Yes it is possible to take advantage of Quicktime X h.264 hw acceleration in GT120/GT130/4850 iMacs because they have a hidden 9400M built-in in their motherboard

Which one?

[bretm]

Yeah, one think I like about Aqua is that it kinda looks...alive, organic. The Marble theme just looks plain and dead. Strange adjectives, I know, but that's exactly what I thought when I first saw them.

I always thought candylike, circuslike, child-like, goofy, unpolished, and silly.

The grey has always looked sleek, elegant, professional, cohesive, neutral, etc.

[windywoo]

Blame Microsoft, they own the WMV (and WMA) formats and determine who can play that back by licensing it out. Apple can't implement it directly without permission from Microsoft. Of course Telestream (makers of Flip4Mac) have licensed the codecs (the non-DRMed ones at least) from Microsoft so there is no need for Apple to license a proprietary codec from a rival. The only other way that this could happen would be for Apple to reverse engineer those formats - a process that they view as a waste.

There is no way that Apple can get support for every format in Quicktime - it just won't happen - not practical. Second: I don't know how one can consider WMV or its cousin WMA to be any good formats. Their sole intention w to be a proprietary alternative to MPEG and MP3. Overall those closed Microsoft formats have been heavily criticized as inferior compared to the more modern formats. Thats what Quicktime X was supposed to be about support. See here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/#quicktimex):




It has never been touted as supporting everything. I think you misunderstood what it's intention is supposed to be.

wtf is .mov then? MP3 is a proprietary format btw, its just so common that everyone forgets.

[windywoo]

Then go and use Windows. Cut is useless, just move the file!

Cut and Paste is quicker and easier.

[EmperorDarius]

Cut and Paste is quicker and easier.

Actually it takes the same amount of time to move by dragging.

[Eidorian]

Actually it takes the same amount of time to move by dragging.Your mileage may vary if you throw in plenty of keyboard shortcuts.

[dam0dred]

The new pop-up menus look great. Everything looks great, very much looking forward to this release. Worth the price for the Safari speed boost alone.

[tchek]

The Font in the New list view in the Dock, is too small on a large screen (For me)

[mcatnova]

I had picked up the MBP 15 late 2008 model high end in early june (and qualified for a rebate). I had a 2003 Dell 8600. AT BEST I was able to get 2 hours if i was ONLY typing. so anything above that is gravy for me

[BRLawyer]

Still have 2 LaserWriter IIs, a Quadra 650, 950 with AV input & output with Radius cards for movie editing, and 13" & 17" Apple CRT AV Monitors. System 7 - 7.5 in the '90s was awesome - even MS Word 5.1 rocked back then, and was better then than it is today. With a 4800 baud modem, and a dedicated phone line, the sky was the limit - there was nothing this setup could not do - great times, indeed!

And then Word 6.0 came and paved the way for pretty much every screw-up by MS after that...probably the worst Word Processor ever, at a time when WordPerfect, Nisus and WriteNow mopped the floor with it. :rolleyes:

[BRLawyer]

I can't believe you even thought of something that dumb. Wasn't it obvious that the guy was going to pay the full $129 for SL and not the $29 upgrade from Leopard price? What was going on through your head that you imagined that he would actually send a check to Apple for more money than was required?

And how would he pay 129 if he had Leopard already? Wake up, man.

[BRLawyer]

I don't know for sure, but I would assume Apple would sell a $129 disk and a $29 disk. If you had Tiger but you bought the $29 upgrade disk it wouldn't let you upgrade. At least that's what would make sense to me, it seems easier than checking back to someone's house.

Well, I am assuming the $129 version would not work with Leopard.

[bobertoq]

Windows had cut paste and append folders since at least windows 3.1.

Mac finder still doesn't have it, SHAME. I would call this feature essential.I concur. However I find drag and drop to be just as useful.

[iGuardian]

And how would he pay 129 if he had Leopard already? Wake up, man.

O.o What do you mean "How would he pay 129 if he had leopard already"?

When you go to the store, you tell them you have Tiger and you buy the FULL not-upgrade version, for 129. Even if you have Leopard they'd let you buy the full version. It's not like you'd walk in the store and they'd say "Nope, sorry, you have leopard so we're going to make you buy the upgrade version."

[bretm]

Then go and use Windows. Cut is useless, just move the file!

If you need to cut and paste a file or folder, cut is disabled for your protection. But if you must, just copy, then press cmd+delete to throw it in the trash. Then go paste to your hearts delight.

It's not missing a feature. It's built in pi@#ed off protection.

[Povilas]

Mac users already know how finder works in this way and its mainly switchers who have trouble because they didn't bother to properly learn the new platform first.


I knew this append folder difference for years before i had a Mac. Some people just don't bother to check and think it works the same way which it doesn't.

[EmperorDarius]

If you need to cut and paste a file or folder, cut is disabled for your protection. But if you must, just copy, then press cmd+delete to throw it in the trash. Then go paste to your hearts delight.

It's not missing a feature. It's built in pi@#ed off protection.

Or CMD + Drag.

[Povilas]

If you need to cut and paste a file or folder, cut is disabled for your protection. But if you must, just copy, then press cmd+delete to throw it in the trash. Then go paste to your hearts delight.

It's not missing a feature. It's built in pi@#ed off protection.

Or if it's not to deep and you can drag it before dragging press Command and then drag and drop, it will move the file to that location. it's the same as Cut and Paste.

[lloyddean]

O.o What do you mean "How would he pay 129 if he had leopard already"?

When you go to the store, you tell them you have Tiger and you buy the FULL not-upgrade version, for 129. Even if you have Leopard they'd let you buy the full version. It's not like you'd walk in the store and they'd say "Nope, sorry, you have leopard so we're going to make you buy the upgrade version."

Given the self declared Phystar and PearC clones I wouldn't bet on it!

A valid response may be that only upgrades to existing Leopard installation are made available at retail.

[masse]

Okay. Append would be extremely helpful.

In Intel's case, the lack of expected feature resulted in valuable data loss. Sure you can argue it would have been "more intelligent" to copy and then delete, but come on, if it worked the logical way it wouldn't have been a problem.

Its a missing feature. Also, finder DOES suck.

[Bubba Satori]

No your oporating sysem suks!

Are you five ?

[pdjudd]

wtf is .mov then? MP3 is a proprietary format btw, its just so common that everyone forgets.

1) .mov is a wrapper format that is primarily based on (I believe) MPEG. It is the foundation for MPEG and considered and industry standard - most people use MPEG because of its role in standards group. WMA is not part of this.
2) Unlike WMA, MP3 is owned by a group of people and is an ISO standard derived by several organizations. Technically MP3 is a proprietary format by its nature of it being patented, but it is much less so than WMA and WMV which are solely owned and controlled by Microsoft. Calling MP3 a "standard" is pretty accurate due to its ISO status and the fact that it is a defacto industry standard unlike WMA or WMV.

Remember: WMA and WMV are whole proprietary and controlled by Microsoft - Mac support has always been limited due to the fact that it is a (surprise) windows framework. It is not standards based in any real sense and WMA has been heavily criticized as an inferior format.

But that doesn't really matter here. Quicktime X is more about supporting more modern codecs (based on licensing agreements) and advancing current codecs. Any codec support that Apple adds is going to be based on licensing arrangements. Right now, the only player that has MS endorsement (on a limited level) is Flip4Mac

[EmperorDarius]

Okay. Append would be extremely helpful.

In Intel's case, the lack of expected feature resulted in valuable data loss. Sure you can argue it would have been "more intelligent" to copy and then delete, but come on, if it worked the logical way it wouldn't have been a problem.

First of all, it would have been more intelligent to get informed on how OS X worked. (And btw you don't have to copy and delete, it's enough to CMD + drag)
Second, the logical way is to replace, not append. It's the same as with files. Files with same names get overwritten. Only because Windows does it that way, it does not make it logical.

Its a missing feature. Also, finder DOES suck.
A missing feature which you can easily live without. And no, Finder does not suck.

[MrCrowbar]

Correction - cut paste with append. Correction again.... it wasn't spilt milk, it was a small bag of diamonds, i'm down almost $30 000 because of it.

And from the research that i did before switching from windows to Mac was that mac's are more intuitive, even apple themselves claim the same. To delete a half coppied folder is not very intuitive. I love macs but we all need them to listen to what their customers need. and you know i'm not asking for much

Rule Number 1: Always have at least one backup
Rule Number 2: Reserve "cut" and "paste" to text editing
Rule Number 3: Know your system, don't take risks.

My hard drive died 2 days before I had to hand in my thesis. No big deal, I had multiple backups here and there, system was up and running in 1 hour from a USB drive where I restored the backup onto.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Are you five ?

Is your sarcasm meter broken? Point is, who cares? They're just operating systems, yet some feel the need to defend their OS with their lives.

One thing I'm wondering now after this latest seed is whether we'll se more of the menus replaced with black from Leopard's white in oncoming builds. Like, for example, black menus in the menu bar. Not sure how I would feel about that.

I also don't know how I feel about the grayish blue accent color that is being used in "marble." ...It's just kind of like... why that color, and why so bland?

[slackpacker]

"Yes it does" what?

1) Yes QuicktimeX+9400M DOES still stutter in 1080p h.264 MKVs

2) Yes it is possible to take advantage of Quicktime X h.264 hw acceleration in GT120/GT130/4850 iMacs because they have a hidden 9400M built-in in their motherboard

Which one?

Yes SL Supports the 9400 and does accelerate H264. ( have only my MBP (9400/9600) as a test)

[diamond.g]

O.o What do you mean "How would he pay 129 if he had leopard already"?

When you go to the store, you tell them you have Tiger and you buy the FULL not-upgrade version, for 129. Even if you have Leopard they'd let you buy the full version. It's not like you'd walk in the store and they'd say "Nope, sorry, you have leopard so we're going to make you buy the upgrade version."

If you have Tiger, didn't Apple say you would have to upgrade to Leopard before going to Snow Leopard?

[iGuardian]

If you have Tiger, didn't Apple say you would have to upgrade to Leopard before going to Snow Leopard?

From Apple's website:
Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.

If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork ’09, Apple’s productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

And when I called them, 3 different reps told me you can buy Snow Leopard (full version for Tiger) for $120 separate from the Box Set.

[diamond.g]

From Apple's website:


And when I called them, 3 different reps told me you can buy Snow Leopard (full version for Tiger) for $120.

Ah, interesting.

[pdjudd]

If you have Tiger, didn't Apple say you would have to upgrade to Leopard before going to Snow Leopard?

If you want the discounted price yes, otherwise you can buy the updated Mac Box Set which will have Snow Leopard, iLife '09, and iWork'09.

Cite (http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html)

[webraider]

Here's a scenario for you.... you cut large folder from one drive to a network or usb drive... and it is about half way... then network fails, or finder times out.... what now?? half your files are one location, half at another. You go to paste that folder again... then half of your files - the ones that went through before the interruption - get deleted then the other half come through, and the end result is half the files you started with and no way to recover the lost files bcs they are on network drive. If you lost months of your work files in one little cut paste episode... u'd feel the same too.

Then I have two suggestions, use Drag and Drop or "Copy and Paste" instead of "Cut and Paste". If the initial paste or moving of the file doesn't work because of network failure, then when you paste it or move it again, whatever is there will be written over with the newer file. If this work is that important than having a redundant back-up should happen anyways. no offense.

[webraider]

That is why copy, paste, delete is a better option. Indirect backup.


Exactly, OR Drag, Drop and Delete.

[Robot-Rock]

One thing I really want to see is menu's with a PURPLE gradient to highlight a selection... not blue. It's starting to look out of place, especially with the whole "aura" wallpapers!

And, with the dock's contextual menus, could they also be the same for the rest of the menus on the Mac? That would be really nice and to keep with the "marble" idea couldn't the UI elements used in iTunes and iLife be used throughout the rest of the operating system? Leopard looks messy but they could easily tidy this up in SL by using the same design elements and banishing Aqua :)

[windywoo]

1) .mov is a wrapper format that is primarily based on (I believe) MPEG. It is the foundation for MPEG and considered and industry standard - most people use MPEG because of its role in standards group. WMA is not part of this.
2) Unlike WMA, MP3 is owned by a group of people and is an ISO standard derived by several organizations. Technically MP3 is a proprietary format by its nature of it being patented, but it is much less so than WMA and WMV which are solely owned and controlled by Microsoft. Calling MP3 a "standard" is pretty accurate due to its ISO status and the fact that it is a defacto industry standard unlike WMA or WMV.

Remember: WMA and WMV are whole proprietary and controlled by Microsoft - Mac support has always been limited due to the fact that it is a (surprise) windows framework. It is not standards based in any real sense and WMA has been heavily criticized as an inferior format.

But that doesn't really matter here. Quicktime X is more about supporting more modern codecs (based on licensing agreements) and advancing current codecs. Any codec support that Apple adds is going to be based on licensing arrangements. Right now, the only player that has MS endorsement (on a limited level) is Flip4Mac

For years Apple used to piss me off with their quicktime bollocks that I had to install to watch .mov. That seems to have changed now but it does show that Apple are no saints when it comes to proprietary codecs. And Windows still doesn't play quicktime out of the box either, so perhaps its only apt that flip4mac is required on a Mac.

[Shake 'n' Bake]

One thing I really want to see is menu's with a PURPLE gradient to highlight a selection... not blue. It's starting to look out of place, especially with the whole "aura" wallpapers!

And, with the dock's contextual menus, could they also be the same for the rest of the menus on the Mac? That would be really nice and to keep with the "marble" idea couldn't the UI elements used in iTunes and iLife be used throughout the rest of the operating system? Leopard looks messy but they could easily tidy this up in SL by using the same design elements and banishing Aqua :)

You can change the scrollbars yourself if you want. I don't know how to do it, but the interweb does.

I think we'll see Aqua in some form until OS XI. Or beyond. Seriously, it could happen. Apple stuck with the same essential interface for eons.

[intel]

Then I have two suggestions, use Drag and Drop or "Copy and Paste" instead of "Cut and Paste". If the initial paste or moving of the file doesn't work because of network failure, then when you paste it or move it again, whatever is there will be written over with the newer file. If this work is that important than having a redundant back-up should happen anyways. no offense.

You guys are all missing the point here.
Here is another scenario for you:
say you go to a cafe to buy a mug of coffee (not from mcdonalds, their coffee tastes like crap anyway). So you ask for a coffee and you expect it to be in a mug, it being a prestige cafe, but then the waiter comes and gives your coffee in a cup insted. You protest because the coffee is hot and you need a handle so you don't burn yourself. The waiter replies to you with a dirty look and says "just wrap the cup with a tissue or a napkin. 'it will be EXACTLY the same - maybe better' "
******** and you know it. If the cafes with mugs perfected the handle... (windows explorer) it can be done and it too should be expected from a prestige place like apple. Append to folders is only logical.

[dr. shdw]

For years Apple used to piss me off with their quicktime bollocks that I had to install to watch .mov. That seems to have changed now but it does show that Apple are no saints when it comes to proprietary codecs. And Windows still doesn't play quicktime out of the box either, so perhaps its only apt that flip4mac is required on a Mac.

Well WMP used to exist on a Mac until Microsoft stopped updating it.

[iGuardian]

You guys are all missing the point here.
Here is another scenario for you:
say you go to a cafe to buy a mug of coffee (not from mcdonalds, their coffee tastes like crap anyway). So you ask for a coffee and you expect it to be in a mug, it being a prestige cafe, but then the waiter comes and gives your coffee in a cup insted. You protest because the coffee is hot and you need a handle so you don't burn yourself. The waiter replies to you with a dirty look and says "just wrap the cup with a tissue or a napkin. 'it will be EXACTLY the same - maybe better' "
******** and you know it. If the cafes with mugs perfected the handle... (windows explorer) it can be done and it too should be expected from a prestige place like apple. Append to folders is only logical.

That's the worst analogy I've ever read...

This situation is more like an American trying to learn French. French is "better" and it has different grammar, but the American refuses to learn French grammar and keeps his English grammar.

Just get used to using your mac and stop complaining about it. Especially on this tread. I'm tired of getting updates of you complaining about OS X on a tread about a Snow Leopard beta.

So make your own thread to complain.

And to everyone responding to him, please! Stop feeding the troll! (And yes, I know, I shouldn't have responded to him either but I couldn't resist.)

[str1f3]

You can change the scrollbars yourself if you want. I don't know how to do it, but the interweb does.

I think we'll see Aqua in some form until OS XI. Or beyond. Seriously, it could happen. Apple stuck with the same essential interface for eons.

There's very little left that is actually Aqua, especially in SL. iLife, iTunes, and iWork (for the most part) have already made the change. It's best just to get rid of it as soon as possible.

[i.mac]

We've beaten this to death.

Next rumor please...

[Krafty]

We've beaten this to death.

Next rumor please...

Geometricylistic.

The next UI.

[Kat King123]

more excited about this any windows 7 even tho i have more pcs in my house than macs once again apple has out done themselves :)

[Shake 'n' Bake]

There's very little left that is actually Aqua, especially in SL. iLife, iTunes, and iWork (for the most part) have already made the change. It's best just to get rid of it as soon as possible.

iChat has the icon selector from Tiger and iWork has a selector from Tiger.

All I want:

1. Consistent scroll bars.

2. Consistent windows.

3. The ability to change the opacity of the menus and menubar beyond opaque and translucent.

4. More customization, like in OS 9.

Add a new appearance to that and it's even better.

[Krafty]

Ok, after installing Adium, I tried to eject the installation disk. Finder completely froze, and I tried relaunching it from the dock. Finder quit, and wouldn't re-open. Everytime I click, this error posted below was brought up.

Tried to restart and my Mini wouldnt respond although I was able to switch between FF and Adium.

[pdjudd]

For years Apple used to piss me off with their quicktime bollocks that I had to install to watch .mov. That seems to have changed now but it does show that Apple are no saints when it comes to proprietary codecs. And Windows still doesn't play quicktime out of the box either, so perhaps its only apt that flip4mac is required on a Mac.

The problem with codecs is that they are almost always going to be based on some technology that is proprietary in some fashion. Lets face the facts, Microsoft is almost always going to prefer that people use their largely proprietary formats to create dependancies. Thats going to include Audio and Video. The one exception, an OEM may be able to pre-include Quicktime with the hardware, but thats going to be very doubtful. It's not unique to Apple or anybody. Apple is at least trying to move away from that approach and supporting more industry standard formats out of the box, but any proprietary software is probably going to use a proprietary format in some fashion. Its the name of the business and is never going to change.

The one exception is the FOSS formats, but they never get wide adoption out of the box by a company like Microsoft or Apple. Take FLAC, not even on Windows is there out of the box support. You either have to install a third party program or a separate plug-in. Nobody is that interested in them. Unfortunate? Yea, but thats life for you.

Well WMP used to exist on a Mac until Microsoft stopped updating it.

It did (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media_Player#Mac_OS_X), but it was nowhere near as feature complete, nor was it very well made. It was heavily criticized for lacking tons of basic features. It was a piss-poor attempt at a media player that essentially only shares a name with its Windows counterpart. FlipFor Mac is way better...

But if you want to pick nits, they simply cancelled development, but its the same thing.

[Quillz]

You can change the scrollbars yourself if you want. I don't know how to do it, but the interweb does.

I think we'll see Aqua in some form until OS XI. Or beyond. Seriously, it could happen. Apple stuck with the same essential interface for eons.
Not really. The original "System" UI lasted between System 1 (1984) and Mac OS 7 (1991). The second major UI, Platinum, was even shorter, used only between Mac OS 8 (1997) and Mac OS 9 (1999).

Chances are good Aqua will last the lifetime of Mac OS X, and will be replaced with something new when Mac OS 11 is eventually released. (Which will be well into the next decade.)

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Not really. The original "System" UI lasted between System 1 (1984) and Mac OS 7 (1991). The second major UI, Platinum, was even shorter, used only between Mac OS 8 (1997) and Mac OS 9 (1999).

Chances are good Aqua will last the lifetime of Mac OS X, and will be replaced with something new when Mac OS 11 is eventually released. (Which will be well into the next decade.)

But it looked essentially the same, except Platinum had color.

[Quillz]

But it looked essentially the same, except Platinum had color.
No. Platinum actually looked quite different from the original System look. The placement of the title bar widgets, the title bar itself, the fonts, the layout of certain system icons, etc. were all different.

The colors were largely the same, but most other things were very different.

[intel]

I have Found a bug and wondering if the same thing is happening to anyone else. It is related to USB and Bluetooth. First, every time I plug something into Any USB port, skype and sometimes random programs shut down and a bug report window. 95% of the time it is skype.

The other bug is where I listen through stereo bluetooth headset and if I don't turn the headset off physically, Bluetooth on mac locks up and will not reconect to any device and it still thinks that the headphones are connected.
If on the other hand I plug the headphones to charge while they are connected then the Bluetooth driver itself turns off and macos says that there is no Bluetooth hardware inside the computer. I have a mac pro 8 core late 2008 with motorola s9 headset.
Evrything worked fine in leopard but not in snow leopard. And still does work fine in leopard so it's not a hardware issue.

Ps to all you haters out there, I still think finder is a sore excuse for a file browser the same way windows vista is a sore excuse for an operating system but at least they got windows explorer functioning like how a perfect file browser should function. So what if you don't have big perfect plump breasts, at least you have nipples right?. All it takes is a simple small improvement to snow leopard and I will be extatic. But until then I will be pissed off.

[EmperorDarius]

it can be done and it too should be expected from a prestige place like apple.Append to folders is only logical.



Cutting and pasting on Windows:

1.Open Folder 1
2.Select Files you need to cut
3.Right click >> Cut/ CTRL +X
4.Open Folder 2
5.Right click >>Paste/CTRL+V

Cutting and pasting on OS X:
1.Open Folder 1
2.Open Folder 2
3.Select the files you need to cut
4.CMD + DRAG from Folder 1 to Folder 2

It's EXACTLY the same thing. You just need to get used to it. It does not require ANY extra work at all, so your analogy is flawed.

And about Append folders...it is NOT the more logical way. It's the most "Windowish" way.

If you copy a file to a place where another file with a same name is located, you don't expect them to be merged, but the older one to be replaced. So, append folders is just an extra feature, which some people may find useful and some not.

[dr. shdw]

Cutting and pasting on Windows:

1.Open Folder 1
2.Select Files you need to cut
3.Right click >> Cut/ CTRL +X
4.Open Folder 2
5.Right click >>Paste/CTRL+V

Cutting and pasting on OS X:
1.Open Folder 1
2.Open Folder 2
3.Select the files you need to cut
4.CMD + DRAG from Folder 1 to Folder 2

It's EXACTLY the same thing. You just need to get used to it. It does not require ANY extra work at all, so your analogy is flawed.

And about Append folders...it is NOT the more logical way. It's the most "Windowish" way.

If you copy a file to a place where another file with a same name is located, you don't expect them to be merged, but the older one to be replaced. So, append folders is just an extra feature, which some people may find useful and some not.

It depends. If the data is on another drive, it'll copy it..

[EmperorDarius]

It depends. If the data is on another drive, it'll copy it..

It's not true. Actually, if you're moving data on the same drive or partition, dragging files is enough. If it's on another drive or partition, you must use CMD + drag. But I just use CMD+Drag, since it works in any case.

[Krafty]

Another thing, is Photoshop CS3 working for anyone? When I drag one image onto another, PS freezes.

[Quillz]

Another thing, is Photoshop CS3 working for anyone? When I drag one image onto another, PS freezes.
I can confirm CS4 works fine, but I haven't tried CS3. Sorry.

[intel]

Cutting and pasting on Windows:

1.Open Folder 1
2.Select Files you need to cut
3.Right click >> Cut/ CTRL +X
4.Open Folder 2
5.Right click >>Paste/CTRL+V

Cutting and pasting on OS X:
1.Open Folder 1
2.Open Folder 2
3.Select the files you need to cut
4.CMD + DRAG from Folder 1 to Folder 2

It's EXACTLY the same thing. You just need to get used to it. It does not require ANY extra work at all, so your analogy is flawed.

And about Append folders...it is NOT the more logical way. It's the most "Windowish" way.

If you copy a file to a place where another file with a same name is located, you don't expect them to be merged, but the older one to be replaced. So, append folders is just an extra feature, which some people may find useful and some not.

Why are you so blind to see??? Let me put it in simple terms for you... cut and paste works and i'm aware of that... here is where your understanding is very limited.. I'll give you some base-work first.
you are moving a file...
the file moves, the operating system checks to see if it completed, then deletes the original file... simple logic everybody understands this, you are stupid if you don't.

Now...

If you were to repeat this same BRILLIANT logic to folder moving then everything is perfect.
BUT
Instead of checking if the operation which you wanted to perform completed successfully, ie. MOVING THE WHOLE FOLDER!!!!! REGARDLESS of communication failure, and THEN and ONLY THEN delete the original folder and it's contents!! Not each individual file as it is moved. That would be like deleting byte by byte as a file is moved to the other location (completely illogical data loss can occur).

To move from one hard-drive in your system to another hard-drive in your system is totally different to moving to a network drive. MTBF increases 1000 fold depending on network quality.
The method i mentioned above is one solution, whereas, windows adopted a more efficient method which does delete files separately as they are moved BUT at least they made it default to append as folders are moved again incase of network failure.


Apple's finder does neither and because of this... Finder = Fail!!!

Instead they decided to program a not so useful feature - coverflow for finder.

[intel]

Not related but check it while we wait for another rumor

Whatever happened to the appleTV, totally need a hardware upgrade, there are soo many media players out there now that play any video file out of box. i need a new apple tv. Apple get your act together, steve was gone for a little while, now everybody else is catching up. stay ahead of the pack like you are with iphone


http://www.beingmanan.com/wp/2009/05/office-2010-new-features/

[trondah]

Apple's finder does neither and because of this... Finder = Fail!!!

Can't you just COPY the folder instead of moving it? That will ensure the original is intact in case of communication error.

I can't really see that Finder is such a fail because of this.

[Amuraivel]

I had a severe crash, and rather than a kerne panic, or a freeze (yes. OSX has frozen), it seemed to crash the user space returning me to the user list. Like when the X11 server crashes on Linux.


Is this a new form of error/crash control on OSX?

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Shasterball]

- Exposé for Multiple Monitors Fixed: Exposé reportedly now functions correctly when using multiple monitors, with windows remaining on their respective monitors in Exposé rather than all being collected on the primary monitor.

I don't think I ever had this problem. I can see how it would be quite annoying though.

[Greenbook]

Ps to all you haters out there, I still think finder is a sore excuse for a file browser the same way windows vista is a sore excuse for an operating system but at least they got windows explorer functioning like how a perfect file browser should function. So what if you don't have big perfect plump breasts, at least you have nipples right?. All it takes is a simple small improvement to snow leopard and I will be extatic. But until then I will be pissed off.

Come on, how good is column view.

[Oh-es-Ten]

It does that in Leopard right now. :)


System Preferences has to be running for the contextual menus to appear properly (showing all the pref panes).

In Snow Leopard it does not have to be running to show this, meaning you can have this as a Dock Icon and by ctrl+clicking on it, you can go straight to the pref pane needed, before actually opening System Preferences. This is good!

[rerelease]

System Preferences has to be running for the contextual menus to appear properly (showing all the pref panes).

In Snow Leopard it does not have to be running to show this, meaning you can have this as a Dock Icon and by ctrl+clicking on it, you can go straight to the pref pane needed, before actually opening System Preferences. This is good!

It's weird to me though that System Prefs has to quit and reopen when I want to adjust third-party panes. Even if I select them right away from the dock menu.

[mrchinchilla]

...at least they got windows explorer functioning like how a perfect file browser should function.

This made me laugh hard.

[hawk eyes]

System Preferences has to be running for the contextual menus to appear properly (showing all the pref panes).

In Snow Leopard it does not have to be running to show this, meaning you can have this as a Dock Icon and by ctrl+clicking on it, you can go straight to the pref pane needed, before actually opening System Preferences. This is good!

Oh that is cool. I have system prefs startup when I login so that's why I thought it already did it. Thanks for clarifying. :D

[dhowden]

I'm really liking the new integration between Exposé and Spaces. If you activate Exposé in Spaces you can drag windows between Spaces, and the other windows in the grid resize nicely using Core Animation...

Loving this new build!

[Sky Blue]

I'm really liking the new integration between Exposé and Spaces. If you activate Exposé in Spaces you can drag windows between Spaces, and the other windows in the grid resize nicely using Core Animation...

Loving this new build!

You could do that in 10.5

[dhowden]

You could do that in 10.5

Yes, but the post-move rearrangment isn't as pretty in 10.5... :)

[mrchinchilla]

Yes, but the post-move rearrangment isn't as pretty in 10.5... :)

But it was more natural. This ordered layout makes me feel suffocated.

[dr. shdw]

But it was more natural. This ordered layout makes me feel suffocated.

Heh cause this is useful?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/burnflare/2387682004/sizes/o/
http://edibleapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/200aps.jpg

[EmperorDarius]

Heh cause this is useful?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/burnflare/2387682004/sizes/o/
http://edibleapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/200aps.jpg

Cause you're really gonna open that amount of windows? Just take a look at how many open programs are down there!

[BRLawyer]

This made me laugh hard.

Indeed. "Windows Explorer" IZ THE RULEZ :rolleyes:

[dr. shdw]

Cause you're really gonna open that amount of Windows? Just take a look at how many open programs are down there!

as in the new Expose layout in SL deals with it better..

[wankey]

Why are you so blind to see??? Let me put it in simple terms for you... cut and paste works and i'm aware of that... here is where your understanding is very limited.. I'll give you some base-work first.
you are moving a file...
the file moves, the operating system checks to see if it completed, then deletes the original file... simple logic everybody understands this, you are stupid if you don't.

Now...

If you were to repeat this same BRILLIANT logic to folder moving then everything is perfect.
BUT
Instead of checking if the operation which you wanted to perform completed successfully, ie. MOVING THE WHOLE FOLDER!!!!! REGARDLESS of communication failure, and THEN and ONLY THEN delete the original folder and it's contents!! Not each individual file as it is moved. That would be like deleting byte by byte as a file is moved to the other location (completely illogical data loss can occur).

To move from one hard-drive in your system to another hard-drive in your system is totally different to moving to a network drive. MTBF increases 1000 fold depending on network quality.
The method i mentioned above is one solution, whereas, windows adopted a more efficient method which does delete files separately as they are moved BUT at least they made it default to append as folders are moved again incase of network failure.


Apple's finder does neither and because of this... Finder = Fail!!!

Instead they decided to program a not so useful feature - coverflow for finder.

Finder is a joke that's still waiting for its last laugh. I still can't believe Apple hasn't fixed it. Yes, the apologists will say whatever they want to fool themselves into thinking Finder just "works".

Things that seriously need consideration for Finder:

- Quit ALL windows on a single keystroke
- Decide what it wants to be. Currently it's skirting the line between a file manager and a file browser.
- Cut. Windows does this marvelously and don't give me some convoluted bullcrap about how it's "destructive" or what not. (like dragging icons out of the Dock isn't destructive enough, or how about the side bar?)
- Sidebar being more useful than just a bunch of shortcuts that poof out of existence when I drag them out (destructive again!)
----Suggestion: Items in the left sidebar can be dragged to the dock, since they both seem to be on the same plane of existence (poof to nothing)
- Better icon spacing. Holy cow, the next time Finder opens with a 50 row x 2 column view that doesn't automatically fit to content space when I drag the window border. Currently I have to drag it to a more rectangular view, and the right click and clean up (why does it not have auto cleanup??)
- Quick Look being tied to the window behind and overwrites the window commands behind it. How many times have I focused out of the quick look window to find that I'm now focused on the Finder window behind it? What ever window has Quick Look open will select quicklook whenever I select the window. I hate Quick Look blocks part of the window, when I select it, QUicklook still looks but is now out of focus.
- Quick Look having its own shortcuts, cmd - F in Quick Look sounds like it's going to go Full Screen, but NO! cmd-F makes the Finder window BEHIND it do a full system wide search, making your quick look screen show a pointlessly stupid looking search icon.

Now that Finder is in Cocoa, I can now take it more serious as it's in a platform to expand hugely over the next few years. Adding features to an age old Carbon app is quite a pain. iTunes, better hurry up!

[wankey]

But it was more natural. This ordered layout makes me feel suffocated.

The new one is better. You've just enjoyed the mess and haven't really tried out a cleaner desktop.

I agree that the original expose feels more "natural" but it is quite useless. I am a developer and find it probably one of the most pointless window features (every single window looks the same since I code on them, so i have to mouse over every window... further more, windows aren't always in the same places so if makes it even more annoying. The SL expose solves a lot of these problems)

Furthermore, previewing windows is expose is a HUGE deal for coders. You can now just expose, no... Dock expose! into your xCode, everything is laid out properly, preview the mainApplication class to get a general overview of the class structure, and go back to your original file. Gotta keep this kind of user interaction up Apple, doing well here.

[mrchinchilla]

The new one is better. You've just enjoyed the mess and haven't really tried out a cleaner desktop.

I agree that the original expose feels more "natural" but it is quite useless. I am a developer and find it probably one of the most pointless window features (every single window looks the same since I code on them, so i have to mouse over every window... further more, windows aren't always in the same places so if makes it even more annoying. The SL expose solves a lot of these problems)

Furthermore, previewing windows is expose is a HUGE deal for coders. You can now just expose, no... Dock expose! into your xCode, everything is laid out properly, preview the mainApplication class to get a general overview of the class structure, and go back to your original file. Gotta keep this kind of user interaction up Apple, doing well here.

I program too, and to me, Dock Exposé is the equivalent of just Exposé with the selected Application, which I have assigned to F5. I don't like to use the mouse too much unless it's absolutely necessary because it disrupts work flow.

[MacFly123]

I do a bit of work in HyperCard, and getting an user-friendly interface for a seemingly simple Tic-Tac-Toe game took me months to complete.

From what I understand all apps in OS X access the same elements to create their UI and it is just a matter of replacing those elements with the new. Shouldn't be that huge of a project. I would think most of the time would just be in actually DESIGNING the new interface.

Completely unusable.

Ya. The buttons and sliders aren't bad and that is what I kind of imagine "Marble" to look like since Apple is using it on MobileMe and iLife and iWork etc. But those dark menu bars YUCK!!! :(

[intel]

Finder is a joke that's still waiting for its last laugh. I still can't believe Apple hasn't fixed it. Yes, the apologists will say whatever they want to fool themselves into thinking Finder just "works".

Things that seriously need consideration for Finder:

- Quit ALL windows on a single keystroke
- Decide what it wants to be. Currently it's skirting the line between a file manager and a file browser.
- Cut. Windows does this marvelously and don't give me some convoluted bullcrap about how it's "destructive" or what not. (like dragging icons out of the Dock isn't destructive enough, or how about the side bar?)
- Sidebar being more useful than just a bunch of shortcuts that poof out of existence when I drag them out (destructive again!)
----Suggestion: Items in the left sidebar can be dragged to the dock, since they both seem to be on the same plane of existence (poof to nothing)
- Better icon spacing. Holy cow, the next time Finder opens with a 50 row x 2 column view that doesn't automatically fit to content space when I drag the window border. Currently I have to drag it to a more rectangular view, and the right click and clean up (why does it not have auto cleanup??)
- Quick Look being tied to the window behind and overwrites the window commands behind it. How many times have I focused out of the quick look window to find that I'm now focused on the Finder window behind it? What ever window has Quick Look open will select quicklook whenever I select the window. I hate Quick Look blocks part of the window, when I select it, QUicklook still looks but is now out of focus.
- Quick Look having its own shortcuts, cmd - F in Quick Look sounds like it's going to go Full Screen, but NO! cmd-F makes the Finder window BEHIND it do a full system wide search, making your quick look screen show a pointlessly stupid looking search icon.

Now that Finder is in Cocoa, I can now take it more serious as it's in a platform to expand hugely over the next few years. Adding features to an age old Carbon app is quite a pain. iTunes, better hurry up!

Here is someone who actually uses his mac. All you people who say finder is awesome only use their macs to use chat programs and browse the web. May I suggest you switch to chrome os. You wouldn't even know the diference.
I quoted the whole thing above so that you can read it and understand all our pain when we heard that French dude at wwdc say that they love finder and they will not make any changes to it. Oh the pain. Another year( at least )of wishing and waiting until they will get their act together to fix finder. My only hope is that they don't say again "we love finder and left it the way it is".
Finder is the least functioal and least intuitive program apple has ever made.
I hurt and feel like crying that apple have a whole bunch of noobs working on finder if at all. Quicklook is a separate project which is just pasted atop finder, it does not mean apple is working on improving finder.

[Peace]

I have a sneaking suspicion the Finder is going to take a back seat when SL is released. I've been using SL for a while now and I find myself using the finder less and less as each seed comes out. This is probably why Apple said they decided not to change the finder.

[intel]

Indeed. "Windows Explorer" IZ THE RULEZ :rolleyes:

tru that, except it used to crash on me too often, but the usability, looks and functionality is such a higher standard than what finder is.

[intel]

I have a sneaking suspicion the Finder is going to take a back seat when SL is released. I've been using SL for a while now and I find myself using the finder less and less as each seed comes out. This is probably why Apple said they decided not to change the finder.

well, they better do something to make up for how crap it is. Apple has no neat way of organizing large libraries of movies. Don't say itunes because itunes is a joke when it comes to movies and support for different formats.

I will be relieved if they make something to offset finder's incompetence, but i still think we deserve a descent file browser.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Now that Finder is in Cocoa, I can now take it more serious as it's in a platform to expand hugely over the next few years. Adding features to an age old Carbon app is quite a pain. iTunes, better hurry up!

This part sums things up pretty well. With the transition to Cocoa, they'll be able to do brand new things with the file manager that haven't been done before, hopefully improving Finder along the way. Unfortunately, it seems like much of the actual execution of Snow Leopard's new under the hood features and APIs, we'll have to wait until 10.7 to really see what they can do.

[arkmannj]

Here's a few things I would like in the Finder.
(just to add to what other folks have said)

* Mixed window style browsing.
my most common example is the ability to have Column view for the bottom of a coverflow window.

* When Copying/moving files I want to see what file/folder it currently copying/moving.
I just want details. Number of files/folders done vs. total files.
* Cut/paste of items
* Better built in FTP/WebDav support
* The option for an address bar (The Open folder menu option is not a proper substitute)
* Show the hidden options that can be turned on in the terminal in the standards preferences options. (like showing path, style of path, etc.)

* Have all the hidden ._ files for file info kept in a hidden subfolder or something ? I hate seeing 2x as many files when I take my drive to other operating systems.

* A little more theme control or options, I know the theme is nice, but it would be nice to be able to switch it up just a bit; even if it was just the ability to switch some of the looks to be more like old OS X themes.

* I'd like a right-click or menu option for 'open path in terminal' but I know that wouldn't be useful for everyone.

* A refresh option, there are plenty of times I've created a file, and I cannot see it in the finder yet, but it will show up in a programs 'open file' dialoge box

* When a file/disk image/removable drive/etc. is 'locked' it would be nice if the error could tell you what file(s) are locked, by what user(s) and what application(s).

* Better stability, (I'm guessing this will be helped by moving away from Carbon.)

* More informative messages, prompts, errors, statuses, etc. even if it is a drop down/window expansion button or an option that can be turned on in the preferences.

[Quillz]

This made me laugh hard.
And this made me laugh even harder.

The Finder is a piece of crap compared to Windows Explorer.

[Krafty]

I can confirm CS4 works fine, but I haven't tried CS3. Sorry.

It's something with CS3, tried it on my MacBook and the same thing happened.

[arkmannj]

It's something with CS3, tried it on my MacBook and the same thing happened.

hmm, hopefully this is a bug that will get fixed before release, I have CS3 also, and am not looking to upgrade until CS5

[dr. shdw]

hmm, hopefully this is a bug that will get fixed before release, I have CS3 also, and am not looking to upgrade until CS5

Better start bugging Adobe then..

[Krafty]

hmm, hopefully this is a bug that will get fixed before release, I have CS3 also, and am not looking to upgrade until CS5

Is there a way to remove the gray background in CS4? Thats the only thing thats keep me from using it since I mostly drag things into the program from the desktop from quick editing.

I hate having to minimize it everytime to do that.

[EmperorDarius]

And this made me laugh even harder.

The Finder is a piece of crap compared to Windows Explorer.

And this made me ROFL LMAO LOL, because it's exactly the inverse thing.

[Peace]

well, they better do something to make up for how crap it is. Apple has no neat way of organizing large libraries of movies. Don't say itunes because itunes is a joke when it comes to movies and support for different formats.

I will be relieved if they make something to offset finder's incompetence, but i still think we deserve a descent file browser.

Here's the future of file/movie browsing. After using it for a long time I find it better than the finder.

http://gallery.me.com/cmcdan#100103

[MartiNZ]

Any way to turn off icon preview mode inside stacks in Grid/Fan view? This is one thing that seems to still really cause problems for the system - dotted-line outlines FTW though right?

The 'recent items' stack that you can add with the help of Terminal does not load icon previews, and is all the better for it. Speaking of that, I wonder if it will ever make it in as a more visible option.

Edit: If that's the future of file browsing, count me out. I have to say I'm quite surprised that they're turning off HDs on the Desktop in SL by default (so far), and Grid view in stacks is my least favourite view - filenames longer than 10 characters = curtains, and no on-the-fly sorting = fail, not to mention no view customisation. They spent so long trying to kill off icon view in Finder, and now they're pushing something far worse - and the sorting that can be done in stacks doesn't work so far in SL either. Maybe there is more to come, but I think I'll stick to Finder windows.

[dr. shdw]

Any way to turn off icon preview mode inside stacks in Grid/Fan view? This is one thing that seems to still really cause problems for the system - dotted-line outlines FTW though right?

The 'recent items' stack that you can add with the help of Terminal does not load icon previews, and is all the better for it. Speaking of that, I wonder if it will ever make it in as a more visible option.

Edit: If that's the future of file browsing, count me out. I have to say I'm quite surprised that they're turning off HDs on the Desktop in SL by default (so far), and Grid view in stacks is my least favourite view - filenames longer than 10 characters = curtains, and no on-the-fly sorting = fail, not to mention no view customisation. They spent so long trying to kill off icon view in Finder, and now they're pushing something far worse - and the sorting that can be done in stacks doesn't work so far in SL either. Maybe there is more to come, but I think I'll stick to Finder windows.

With an SSD those icons are instantaneous. :)

[iGuardian]

I love windows and I have no idea why I'm on a mac forum!! /parody

[avidmacuser]

LOL, speaking of inversing your display (ctrl-option-cmd-8)

I DO think it looks better inversed.:D

........
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2006/09/itunes4.jpg

....



no

[avidmacuser]

You heard wrong

-> Whats this talk about Safari cra

[Krafty]

Better start bugging Adobe then..

Seeing as its CS3 on a Mac, I think they couldnt give two *****.

[BRLawyer]

tru that, except it used to crash on me too often, but the usability, looks and functionality is such a higher standard than what finder is.

I was being sarcastic, sorry. WE SUCKS big time.