How far away is the TomTom iPhone app? [Archive]

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tombarnes

Jul 12, 2009, 06:38 AM

Since I bought my iPhone 3G last summer, I have been craving turn-by-turn satnav. I have always had my fingers crossed that TomTom will be one of the companies building such an app. So at WWDC, I was very happy to see TomTom are working on it!

We were told 'later this summer', but when is that?

I'm going galavanting in my car over the next few weeks, and I could really do with a satnav (after mine was stolen last summer, I didn't see the point in replacing it, and decided to wait it out for TomTom iPhone).

So what do you think guys and girls?

Tom

Merkie

Jul 12, 2009, 07:26 AM

isaaclimdc

Jul 12, 2009, 07:31 AM

Check out this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=8067700#post8067700

Que

Jul 12, 2009, 08:42 AM

Does anyone know if the carkit will work with the iPhone 2G? It's supposed to improve the GPS signal, so I'm guessing there's a GPS receiver in the carkit, and in that case it could work with the original iPhone (seeing as 3.0 allows third party accessoires to be used in apps). Anyone an idea? :confused:

like you said, it's supposed to IMPROVE the gps, how can it improve something that isn't there?

oh and well done tombarnes, saying "fall" in the poll. i'm sure you can use your native tongue and say autumn without the americans self-destructing from confusion.

anybody here got any spare "aluminum"? i need some for the "trunk" of my car. oops, better go, the "faucet" is running.

blaker13

Jul 12, 2009, 09:08 AM

Then just use att nav until tomtom comes, works awesome.

nfl46

Jul 12, 2009, 09:12 AM

September or Octoberish.

dav146

Jul 12, 2009, 09:31 AM

Get yourself onto ICY and look for iDA.

You are given a free 7 day trial - the App is under some sort of legal disput at the moment - so you may have to do a google search in order to reveal how to extend the trial......

Merkie

Jul 12, 2009, 10:13 AM

like you said, it's supposed to IMPROVE the gps, how can it improve something that isn't there?
You can't. But my guess is that the carkit doesn't "improve" the signal at all, I think the carkit has its own GPS receiver that is way better than the GPS receiver built into the iPhone. For marketing reasons they may say "improved GPS signal".

Edit: turns out I'm right:
For starters, the Car Kit includes a separate GPS receiver that performs better than the one built into the iPhone; Murray said this receiver is closer to what you’d find in a dedicated GPS unit. The TomTom app uses this receiver when your iPhone is docked in the Car Kit, allowing for improved real-time navigation, especially in cities with large buildings or in locations with lots of trees or other natural obstacles. The Car Kit also includes a built-in speaker that provides better audio quality and considerably louder output, making it easier to hear spoken directions.http://tech.yahoo.com/news/macworld/20090706/tc_macworld/tomtomforiphoneenroute

Que

Jul 12, 2009, 03:04 PM

the tomtom car kit having built-in gps is ridiculous. i've been using navigon for a couple of weeks now and it works exactly the same as a dedicated sat-nav. encouraging the consumer to buy the kit and essentially bypass the iphone's gps and use only it's screen is pointless. it'll probably be a bit cheaper than a dedicated unit but that'll be the only reason for buying it.

a completely shameless attempt to drag more money out of us.

buy navigon.

avaloncourt

Jul 12, 2009, 03:38 PM

Does anyone know if the carkit will work with the iPhone 2G? It's supposed to improve the GPS signal, so I'm guessing there's a GPS receiver in the carkit, and in that case it could work with the original iPhone (seeing as 3.0 allows third party accessoires to be used in apps). Anyone an idea? :confused:

Read the LA Times article from Friday that I posted in one of the existing threads yesterday:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/07/tomtom-iphone-app.html

The TomTom VP says that the 2G and iPod Touch are something they're looking into now since the cradle would give those GPS ability. It's not on their priority list but they're looking at it.

Merkie

Jul 12, 2009, 03:49 PM

So it'll probably work on the 2G I guess. Question is, will TomTom support it on iPhone 2G / iPod touch. Well, it's good news.

Merkie

Jul 12, 2009, 03:50 PM

avaloncourt

Jul 12, 2009, 04:32 PM

So it'll probably work on the 2G I guess. Question is, will TomTom support it on iPhone 2G / iPod touch. Well, it's good news.

Read the article. Yes, it's possible that it could work. It's on their list of projects to do. If they follow through on making sure their existing software works then, yes, they'll support it. Until they do it won't work with the 2G.

Londonluke

Jul 12, 2009, 04:38 PM

why not? if the tomtom cradle switches off the 3gs GPS and uses its own then its possible that a 2g with the cradle and software will work

But even tomtoms tech advice team cannot answer (so typical of them)

wowipod

Jul 12, 2009, 04:52 PM

avaloncourt

Jul 12, 2009, 05:09 PM

Technically yes but I think there is a hardware issue or something with the iPod touch and the 2G because if I were TomTom I would have launched it on all of them to maximize sales, so I am thinkin it is more complicated than we think.

Think about what you're saying. They haven't even released for the 3G/GS yet and that's the 'easy' one. They need to get that out of the way first since that's where most of their market it.

3.0 gave access to external devices so this isn't a huge issue. They need to rewrite the app a bit to account for a device that doesn't have a cellular data connection. If the 3G/GS can see the external GPS chipset through the dock connector then the 2G can as well. It's the same OS.

Then they can address the Touch. You can't have the software for a device failing because it can't find the cellular radio. They need to be able to tell the Touch not to look for traffic/IQ Routes/MapShare (if they include MapShare) data through a cellular data connection. They also need to eliminate the Bluetooth speaker-phone for Touch use.

The same thing applies to the 2G. Right now the market-target software can use either the internal GPS or the external dock GPS chipset. They need to hardware flag the software to say 'This is a 2G. There is no GPS to look for. Move along to the external chipset. Is the dock there? Continue.' It's all a matter of getting the different hardware flavors addressing correctly. They're working on a functionally even playing field with the 3G/GS models. They'll get to the others later.

Merkie

Jul 12, 2009, 09:25 PM

Read the article. Yes, it's possible that it could work. It's on their list of projects to do. If they follow through on making sure their existing software works then, yes, they'll support it. Until they do it won't work with the 2G.Why wouldn't it work? Whenever the iPhone is connected to the carkit, the GPS receiver from the carkit is used. This is because of OS 3.0. iPhone 2G runs OS 3.0. I don't see how this would not work on the 2G. The only way it couldn't work is whenever TomTom decides to block the 2G from receiving a GPS signal. Why would they do such thing?

To me it sounds like they're debating whether they're going to officially support TomTom on the 2G.

avaloncourt

Jul 12, 2009, 09:35 PM

Why wouldn't it work? Whenever the iPhone is connected to the carkit, the GPS receiver from the carkit is used. This is because of OS 3.0. iPhone 2G runs OS 3.0. I don't see how this would not work on the 2G. The only way it couldn't work is whenever TomTom decides to block the 2G from receiving a GPS signal. Why would they do such thing?

To me it sounds like they're debating whether they're going to officially support TomTom on the 2G.

You need to read the post above your last. I already explained why it wouldn't work. There are differences between the models that need to be accounted for in programming. You just can't dock and expect it to work on an unsupported model when there is a lack of hardware such as an internal GPS chip it's looking for or a cell radio where none exists. It's not a toaster. Things go very wrong in programming when things they are looking for are not found.

Merkie

Jul 13, 2009, 06:35 AM

You need to read the post above your last. I already explained why it wouldn't work. There are differences between the models that need to be accounted for in programming. You just can't dock and expect it to work on an unsupported model when there is a lack of hardware such as an internal GPS chip it's looking for or a cell radio where none exists. It's not a toaster. Things go very wrong in programming when things they are looking for are not found.No. The only difference between the 2G and 3G is the GPS receiver and (ofcourse) 3G. When you dock the iPhone, the TomTom app will use the GPS receiver that's built into the carkit, this is because of OS 3.0, and OS 3.0 runs on both the 3G and 2G. The only way it wouldn't work is when TomTom decides to make an effort to make the software not work on the 2G.

I also don't understand why TomTom would search for a cell radio. You're reasoning in circles, "It won't work because it won't work". Please explain to me in detail what the difference is between the 2G and 3G that may cause the external GPS receiver not to work on the 2G. Also, please describe to me what do you think would happen when you dock a 2G into the carkit and start up the TomTom app.

I also tried Navigon on my 2G, just to see what it looks like. Ofcourse it wouldn't work (no GPS receiver), but Navigon only showed an error message that it couldn't get a fix on my location. To be more specific: they didn't account for 2G/3G differences. Apps are developed to be used on OS 3.0, they aren't developed to be used on an iPhone. I hope you see the difference.

avaloncourt

Jul 13, 2009, 07:26 AM

No. The only difference between the 2G and 3G is the GPS receiver and (ofcourse) 3G. When you dock the iPhone, the TomTom app will use the GPS receiver that's built into the carkit, this is because of OS 3.0, and OS 3.0 runs on both the 3G and 2G. The only way it wouldn't work is when TomTom makes an effort to make the software not work on the 2G.

I also don't understand why TomTom would search for a cell radio. You're reasoning in circles, "It won't work because it won't work". Please explain to me in detail what the difference is between the 2G and 3G that may cause the external GPS receiver not to work on the 2G.

Are you being intentionally dense or do you not know anything about programming?

Software has to know what hardware is there to know what it can or can not do. As I said before, the article says that they want to work on porting it to the other devices but it's not their priority now.

I keep explaining this to you but you just aren't getting it. The software running on the 3G and GS are running on an even playing field. They both have the same hardware set available to the software.

When software such as this starts up it needs to initialize all of the internal devices to make sure everything is running properly before continuing on with the function. The 2G doesn't have an internal GPS chip. Neither does the iPod Touch. The software will has to know if an internal and an external chip are available. By default the internal GPS chip is the standard way for the device to receive a GPS signal and the software can address that and continue running. If the external dock is available it needs to handshake with that and hand off control from the internal GPS to the external GPS. Which performing the GPS check it would sit there and say, "Hello internal GPS?" "Hello internal GPS?" "Hello internal GPS?" but an answer would never come on the 2G and the Touch because there's nothing there to talk to. The software needs a hardware profile to say, "Oh. This is an iPhone 2G. I'll ignore trying to contact the internal GPS chip and move on to looking for the external device." The same applies for the Touch.

You say you don't know why the TomTom would look for the cell radio. Again, I've ALREADY explained this. The Touch doesn't have a cell radio, only WiFi. TomTom has already acknowledged there will be traffic and IQ Routes in the software. There's also a possibility that they will also integrate MapShare into the software. Those are live data products coming from them. You can't check for traffic on a device that doesn't have a live cell radio to get the information. Do you get it now? The software would be stuck looking for a radio to contact TomTom to get the traffic or IQ Routes information. It couldn't make it past that because it's not there. Again, there needs to be a hardware profile in the software to disable Traffic, IQ Routes and MapShare or to treat it like their hardware GPS units and only allow that to update when docked. That wouldn't do anything for traffic but a pre-calculated IQ Route could be done through docking or WiFi.

There's also the issue of the dock Bluetooth speakerphone. Calls would need to be there for the 2G but not for the Touch models. Again, if it's trying to make a Bluetooth connection with a device that doesn't have Bluetooth (first generation Touch) then it's going to hang. What about 2nd Generation? Without hardware profiles it would think that the Touch is a phone and try to set up speakerphone handshaking with something that doesn't have a cellular radio to begin with.

Lastly, there's something that could be a complete showstopper with the TomTom dock. The 2G and the 3G has variations on how the dock connector worked which prevented or flagged charging from previous generation charging devices. iPod charging devices wouldn't work on the 2G. 2G charging devices were getting the incompatibility flag on 3G hardware and there have been posts here that 3G dock connections weren't working on the 3GS. If the dock isn't able to connect and charge the phone then none of this means anything anyhow because the battery will die rapidly.

I'm done explaining things to you. This has all been very clear about why things would not work and just a few of the things that would need to be changed to make them work. If you don't get it now, move along. As I said, it's not a toaster. You can't just plug stuff in and expect it to work. There's a lot more that's going on behind the scenes. If you want to educate yourself sign up as a developer and get the Stanford University downloads that will teach you how to develop software for the devices. It's free.

avaloncourt

Jul 13, 2009, 07:33 AM

I also tried Navigon on my 2G, just to see what it looks like. Ofcourse it wouldn't work (no GPS receiver), but Navigon only showed an error message that it couldn't get a fix on my location. To be more specific: they didn't account for 2G/3G differences. Apps are developed to be used on OS 3.0, they aren't developed to be used on an iPhone. I hope you see the difference.

You edited your post since I was typing my response and you managed to answer your own question. Congratulation!

I also tried Navigon on my 2G, just to see what it looks like. Ofcourse it wouldn't work (no GPS receiver), but Navigon only showed an error message that it couldn't get a fix on my location. To be more specific: they didn't account for 2G/3G differences.

There you go. You figured it out all by yourself. You got an error because it was looking for a device that did not exist in the equipment. As you said, they didn't account for the 2G/3G differences. You finally figured it out! Apparently me telling you that three times didn't take. You had to figure it out for yourself and, honestly, it doesn't seem like you've figured it out yet. There are significant differences that the software has to deal with using hardware profiles so you don't get errors. Navigon should have generated a connection message that informed you that the 2G was incompatible with GPS devices right from launch just from polling the hardware.

If you can't figure this all out now, I'm done with you. Ciao.

Merkie

Jul 13, 2009, 08:00 AM

Are you being intentionally dense or do you not know anything about programming?

Software has to know what hardware is there to know what it can or can not do. As I said before, the article says that they want to work on porting it to the other devices but it's not their priority now.I concur, but OS 3.0 handles this. Not TomTom.
I keep explaining this to you but you just aren't getting it. The software running on the 3G and GS are running on an even playing field. They both have the same hardware set available to the software.Not exactly, 3GS has a compass which might come in handy, but ok.

When software such as this starts up it needs to initialize all of the internal devices to make sure everything is running properly before continuing on with the function. The 2G doesn't have an internal GPS chip. Neither does the iPod Touch. The software will has to know if an internal and an external chip are available. By default the internal GPS chip is the standard way for the device to receive a GPS signal and the software can address that and continue running. If the external dock is available it needs to handshake with that and hand off control from the internal GPS to the external GPS. Which performing the GPS check it would sit there and say, "Hello internal GPS?" "Hello internal GPS?" "Hello internal GPS?" but an answer would never come on the 2G and the Touch because there's nothing there to talk to. The software needs a hardware profile to say, "Oh. This is an iPhone 2G. I'll ignore trying to contact the internal GPS chip and move on to looking for the external device." The same applies for the Touch. Again, I don't think this is true. Applications for iPhone OS run in a sandbox, they don't need to communicate with hardware, there are API's for that. API's which are available to both the 2G and 3G.

Also, I think you're wrong about how TomTom operates. I think it's more like this: "O hi external GPS receiver, I'll use you even though there might be an internal GPS receiver, I don't care". What's the point of an external GPS receiver if it only works whenever there's an internal GPS receiver? That doesn't make sense. An external GPS receiver doesn't need a second internal GPS receiver.

You say you don't know why the TomTom would look for the cell radio. Again, I've ALREADY explained this. The Touch doesn't have a cell radio, only WiFi. TomTom has already acknowledged there will be traffic and IQ Routes in the software. There's also a possibility that they will also integrate MapShare into the software. Those are live data products coming from them. You can't check for traffic on a device that doesn't have a live cell radio to get the information. Do you get it now? The software would be stuck looking for a radio to contact TomTom to get the traffic or IQ Routes information. It couldn't make it past that because it's not there. Again, there needs to be a hardware profile in the software to disable Traffic, IQ Routes and MapShare or to treat it like their hardware GPS units and only allow that to update when docked. That wouldn't do anything for traffic but a pre-calculated IQ Route could be done through docking or WiFi.Ok, you're right about TomTom looking for cell service, but it's not required. If it were required, TomTom would be useless abroad because data's very expensive. I think TomTom handles this situation as follows: "There's no internet connection available, no biggie, we'll try it without traffic information".

There's also the issue of the dock Bluetooth speakerphone. Calls would need to be there for the 2G but not for the Touch models. Again, if it's trying to make a Bluetooth connection with a device that doesn't have Bluetooth (first generation Touch) then it's going to hang. What about 2nd Generation? Without hardware profiles it would think that the Touch is a phone and try to set up speakerphone handshaking with something that doesn't have a cellular radio to begin with. Yeah, but there's also a 3.5mm jack in the carkit. You don't have to use the BT speakerphone.

Lastly, there's something that could be a complete showstopper with the TomTom dock. The 2G and the 3G has variations on how the dock connector worked which prevented or flagged charging from previous generation charging devices. iPod charging devices wouldn't work on the 2G. 2G charging devices were getting the incompatibility flag on 3G hardware and there have been posts here that 3G dock connections weren't working on the 3GS. If the dock isn't able to connect and charge the phone then none of this means anything anyhow because the battery will die rapidly.

I'm done explaining things to you. This has all been very clear about why things would not work and just a few of the things that would need to be changed to make them work. If you don't get it now, move along. As I said, it's not a toaster. You can't just plug stuff in and expect it to work. There's a lot more that's going on behind the scenes. If you want to educate yourself sign up as a developer and get the Stanford University downloads that will teach you how to develop software for the devices. It's free.I know this. The difference on the dock connector may be a show stopper, on that I agree with you (never thought of this before), but that's the only thing I agree with you about.

I think you should realize that TomTom doesn't need to communicate with the hardware at all and that iPhone apps run in a sandbox environment. They have certain API's available to them which they can use as input for their app. Again, apps are developed to be used on iPhone OS, not for a specific iPhone. Despite your long post, I still don't see why iPhone OS would treat the iPhone 2G differently than the 3G when they are both docked into the carkit (assuming the dock connector won't be a problem). You edited your post since I was typing my response and you managed to answer your own question. Congratulation!

There you go. You figured it out all by yourself. You got an error because it was looking for a device that did not exist in the equipment. As you said, they didn't account for the 2G/3G differences. You finally figured it out! Apparently me telling you that three times didn't take. You had to figure it out for yourself and, honestly, it doesn't seem like you've figured it out yet. There are significant differences that the software has to deal with using hardware profiles so you don't get errors. Navigon should have generated a connection message that informed you that the 2G was incompatible with GPS devices right from launch just from polling the hardware.

If you can't figure this all out now, I'm done with you. Ciao.No, Navigon shouldn't have. iPhone apps can't directly communicate with hardware. And why should they, there are plenty of API's available that can do that. No need to reinvent the wheel (besides the fact that Navigon can't). I don't think you understand how iPhone apps work.

I still hope you can answer the following question for me:
Also, please describe to me what do you think would happen when you dock a 2G into the carkit and start the TomTom app.

I just still don't see why an external GPS receiver would not work on the 2G.

wowipod

Jul 13, 2009, 08:58 AM

Also, please describe to me what do you think would happen when you dock a 2G into the carkit and start up the TomTom app.

Well surely they would already have the app check if it was plugged into the car kit and therefore default to the GPS chip in the car kit. So in the case of the touch and the 2G it recognises that it is installed on the touch or 2G and so when it checks if the car kit is connected and it isn't then the app launches a warning message and only allows you to view the maps.

Is that so hard to think of?

lw9090

Jul 13, 2009, 09:59 AM

I just called tech support at 1-866-486-6866 and spoke to the PDA support and they said they were told that the TomTom app and accessories will be released on the same day at the end of the month. He could not give an exact date. That is around the same time I heard the full navigon version will be released too. I hope they are right. I have a trip planned for the 2nd week in August.

Merkie

Jul 13, 2009, 10:22 AM

Well surely they would already have the app check if it was plugged into the car kit and therefore default to the GPS chip in the car kit. So in the case of the touch and the 2G it recognises that it is installed on the touch or 2G and so when it checks if the car kit is connected and it isn't then the app launches a warning message and only allows you to view the maps.

Is that so hard to think of?Is it so hard to read?
Also, please describe to me what do you think would happen when you dock a 2G into the carkit and start up the TomTom app.My guess is that TomTom sees a GPS receiver and thus the result is that application works flawlessly. Why wouldn't it? The 2G isn't handicapped.

dthmtlgod

Jul 13, 2009, 10:25 AM

Is it so hard to read?
My guess is that TomTom sees a GPS receiver and thus the result is that application works flawlessly. Why wouldn't it? The 2G isn't handicapped.

How about editing the poll choices, adding "who cares?"

wowipod

Jul 13, 2009, 10:53 AM

macduke

Jul 13, 2009, 02:17 PM

Is it so hard to read?
My guess is that TomTom sees a GPS receiver and thus the result is that application works flawlessly. Why wouldn't it? The 2G isn't handicapped.

You're missing the point. Some people with first gen iPhones might open the app before putting it into the dock. The TomTom app works with either the internal GPS or with the dock GPS. TomTom wants to make sure that when the iPhone isn't in the dock, the app doesn't crash (or provides user feedback if 3.0's "sandbox" keeps the api call in check) when trying to look for an internal GPS. It doesn't take much to crash an app on an iPhone, and people appreciate knowing why their device isn't working. I think most everybody can agree that both of those are valid points.

I don't know why people are arguing over this anyway. Adding hooks at the beginning that determine the hardware profile shouldn't take a long time to implement, as later on in your code you can put in statements that exclude blocks of code by checking it against the variable set for the type of device. It will, however, take a little longer to test on multiple devices to make sure that you didn't leave anything out.

In addition, if it's true that SDK 3.0 automagically catches errors from lines of code that are trying to be executed on an unsupported device (ie 3.0's sandbox catches that its trying to make an API call to GPS but its a first gen iPhone and kills that command) then that's fine too.

However, I doubt that 3.0 comes up with custom alert messages tailored to the app if it kills an api call. A good developer will code in messages so that the user knows why it isn't working. For example, when starting the app on a first gen iPhone, it should popup a message that says "You are using a first generation iPhone with no internal GPS. Please dock your iPhone with the TomTom GPS hardware to use navigation." Sure, most people won't open the app unless it's docked, but TomTom still needs to account for the people who will. It's just about making a good interface that gives feedback to the user when there is an unexpected result.

Either way, I doubt that this takes up a huge chunk of their dev time. Most likely they are trying to create as consistent an experience as possible between the built in GPS and the dock and that is taking up a lot of their development time. The GPS in the iPhone isn't up to snuff with the stuff they put into their standard units. That's why they said the GPS in the dock is an improvement over the iPhone's. The GPS in my iPhone 3GS has trouble keeping a good lock on me most of the time. It can be pretty jumpy when holding it in the car. They are probably coming up with algorithms that will smooth out the rough spots.

Also, arguing on the internet is really lame.

bbplayer5

Jul 13, 2009, 02:21 PM

TomTom really dropped the ball on this though. They are missing out on a lot of money.

hexonxonx

Jul 13, 2009, 03:39 PM

I was reading an article on msnbc.com today about the iPhone apps for traveling. They mentioned the TomTom app came out in June along with the new 3G S iPhone. :eek:

Macjames

Jul 13, 2009, 04:27 PM

This just up on the giz

http://gizmodo.com/5313657/tomtoms-gps+enhancing-car-adapter-should-work-with-the-ipod-touch

vertigo235

Jul 13, 2009, 05:32 PM

Read the LA Times article from Friday that I posted in one of the existing threads yesterday:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/07/tomtom-iphone-app.html

The TomTom VP says that the 2G and iPod Touch are something they're looking into now since the cradle would give those GPS ability. It's not on their priority list but they're looking at it.

Hah. What IS on the priority list? I would have thought that wehen they announced a year ago that their software was running on the 3g that they would have had this ready to go.

Rayfire

Jul 13, 2009, 11:34 PM

TomTom really dropped the ball on this though. They are missing out on a lot of money.

I agree. I wonder how late this summer we're going to wait for this to get released.

sportingdad

Jul 14, 2009, 02:59 AM

vertigo235

Jul 14, 2009, 08:13 AM

I'm wondering if TomTom will work at actually making the app work well without the car kit, or will they purposly make it not work so great without the car kit to encourage you to buy one.

Tunnelrunner

Jul 14, 2009, 10:47 AM

I'm wondering if TomTom will work at actually making the app work well without the car kit, or will they purposly make it not work so great without the car kit to encourage you to buy one.

I'm going to keep my faith in man and assume TomTom will make the app as awesome as possible even without the carkit. Otherwise, it would suck to have to lug around 2 devices if you don't always drive the same car.

tombarnes

Jul 15, 2009, 04:32 AM

I'm going to keep my faith in man and assume TomTom will make the app as awesome as possible even without the carkit. Otherwise, it would suck to have to lug around 2 devices if you don't always drive the same car.

I agree. Also, surely someone who buys the Tomtom for iPhone app is looking for consolidation of devices. I.e instead of carrying an iPod, a phone, and a GPS, you just take your iphone which does all three.

I think it would be moving away from the whole ethos of iPhone if Tomtom were to go down the whole 'we'll make it crap if you don't buy the clumbersome dock' route.

tivoboy

Aug 4, 2009, 09:38 AM

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 09:42 AM

Looks like it might be pricey, although Euro prices and USA retail don't ever line up.

I'm still thinking, that 150-175$ for the kit coming out of the gates is going to be the PP

http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2009/08/04/tomtom-for-iphone-car-kit

If it's as expensive as this: http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php/2126/tomtom-for-iphone-inc-mount,

then, many people will skip out, but it's nearly 3 times as expensive as navigon.

tivoboy

Aug 4, 2009, 09:52 AM

Well, I've said it before, I think the app will be 99$, but will be 74$ on launch, so very similar to the navigon app. Then, there will most likely be a 150$ PP for the bundle at launch, MAYBE 125$ for the kit for two weeks or something. I think a lot of people will pounce at that level, for the kit.

The navigon will be 99$ in what, a week? So, I am thinking we are pretty darn prepped for the TomTom product to release.

We'll see. At 200$ in the future (which I don't think it will ever be, I think it will MAX out at 160-175$ USA RETAIL) It will certainly see slower sales.

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 10:00 AM

tivoboy

Aug 4, 2009, 10:15 AM

if this has IQ routes, or even paid monthly traffic access, it will be a NO BRAINER. Data access and traffic updates live to the device is the killer app.

speed12

Aug 4, 2009, 10:25 AM

Is it just me who thinks £113 is actually reasonably good?

If that is just for british maps then OK a little on the steep side, but if its for European maps then its what, £40 more than Navigon at the moment and thats with Navigon on sale. So say Navigon goes up to £75-80 then its only £25 more and thats pretty much what you'd pay for a mount anyway.

Makes sense to me anyway!

curly14

Aug 4, 2009, 10:31 AM

So between 28th July and 3rd August would be end of the
month. I hope that's right cause I want this app soon.

First there is a thread already out there on this subject and secound i suggest you go with Navigon since it is out and running good besides i know someone at TomTom working on the app and it wont be released until Sept 3:D

curly14

Aug 4, 2009, 10:32 AM

I was reading an article on msnbc.com today about the iPhone apps for traveling. They mentioned the TomTom app came out in June along with the new 3G S iPhone. :eek:

hmmmm lets see it's already aug... can you say ball dropage:p

NotOwning

Aug 4, 2009, 10:33 AM

There is still no release date yet though right? At least I haven't seen one. Who thinks this will be out in the next week?

Randman

Aug 4, 2009, 10:35 AM

Tried At&T for a month. Bought Navigon last week and more than happy with it.

avaloncourt

Aug 4, 2009, 12:38 PM

Similar pricing structure to Navigon will certainly help, but will it be, with IQ Routes etc?

if this has IQ routes, or even paid monthly traffic access, it will be a NO BRAINER.

I have posted this several times. It has IQRoutes:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/07/tomtom-iphone-app.html

had a chance recently to chat with Tom Murray, vice president of market development at TomTom Inc., about the anticipated app and the company's iPhone car kit. ...

First things first: No, TomTom hasn't announced pricing or an expected launch date for the app.

Here's what Murray highlighted about what the app will have:

the TomTom user interface
the latest version of Tele Atlas maps for North America and Europe, initially
IQ Routes, which calculates the fastest route based on data collected over the years from other TomTom users.
turn-by-turn directions
voice-guided navigation

Murray wasn't able to confirm whether the app would include Map Share, which lets users make and get map corrections from other users of the feature. Users may purchase additional locations, he said, but the logistics of that were still being worked out

FearlessFreep

Aug 4, 2009, 12:58 PM

With all the hype this thing is getting, it'd better be knock-your-socks-off good, otherwise they're going to get hammered.

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 01:03 PM

speed12

Aug 4, 2009, 03:16 PM

The European one is apparently on sale until Aug 31st.......well my iTunes says so....it might be very wrong of course!

m3coolpix

Aug 4, 2009, 03:39 PM

The European one is apparently on sale until Aug 31st.......well my iTunes says so....it might be very wrong of course!

iTunes for me (US) shows that Navigon is also on sale til 8/15.

I'm betting that there is either an extension of the sale, or possibly an overall price 're-alignment' within it's app category will happen if iGo and/or TomTom's sales ranking start to climb (once TomTom's app/mount is released :D).

Don't have any specific knowledge on this, just a basic marketing strategy seen lately on the app store. A developer can quickly change pricing, much easier than something distributed through a B&M distribution model.

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 04:32 PM

Ok, I am talking about the Navigon, British Isles application.

Rayfire

Aug 4, 2009, 04:47 PM

They removed the TomTom for iPhone flash ad on their main TomTom website, I hope that's a good thing... (or not)

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 04:50 PM

When was that ever there...

Rayfire

Aug 4, 2009, 05:03 PM

When was that ever there...

Like a couple of days ago(and even before), they had it on a flash slide show.

So by removing their TomTom for iPhone ad means...

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 05:07 PM

Like a couple of days ago(and even before), they had it on a flash slide show.

So by removing their TomTom for iPhone ad means...

It's not comming soon, although they're still on track for release :eek:

avaloncourt

Aug 4, 2009, 06:57 PM

From Wired Magazine:

TomTom GPS Car Kit for iPhone Could Cost $200

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/tomtom-gps-kit/

It's just referring to the UK seller we're already aware of...

Now a U.K. retailer Handtec has started taking pre-orders for the app and the kit combo on its web site for£113.85 ($164). The pricing indicates the TomTom iPhone car kit could be available in the U.S. for $200 soon.

ct2k7

Aug 4, 2009, 07:38 PM

From Wired Magazine:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/tomtom-gps-kit/

It's just referring to the UK seller we're already aware of...

Remember, it's a TBC/

avaloncourt

Aug 5, 2009, 06:32 AM

Remember, it's a TBC/

:confused: There isn't going to be any confirmation until TomTom actually says something.

My point in posting that was that it was new, from a major magazine but I don't get their math at all. They say £113.85 =$164 but then follow that with...

The pricing indicates the TomTom iPhone car kit could be available in the U.S. for $200 soon.

That's a pretty big jump to say that $164 = $200. I don't get their logic behind that. Why not $175? Why $200?

ct2k7

Aug 5, 2009, 06:53 AM

:confused: There isn't going to be any confirmation until TomTom actually says something.

My point in posting that was that it was new, from a major magazine but I don't get their math at all. They say £113.85 =$164 but then follow that with...

That's a pretty big jump to say that $164 = $200. I don't get their logic behind that. Why not $175? Why $200?

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm :eek::eek:-ing

MacRumorUser

Aug 5, 2009, 07:00 AM

How far away is the TomTom iPhone app?

Distance wise if I had my TomTom i'd tell you :D:D:D

avaloncourt

Aug 5, 2009, 07:27 AM

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm :eek::eek:-ing

I also don't get their comment...

At $200, the TomTom iPhone car kit would probably be the same price as a dedicated GPS device. If customers don’t have to pay monthly subscription fees for the app and just pay $200, we think it could be a pretty good deal.

TomTom charges for map updates on everything else they sell and there's no reason to think the iPhone application would be any different. A one year subscription to their map update service is $40. So, if we compare a $200 app/dock price plus two years of maps that would be $280. AT&T Mobile Navigator should always have the most up-to-date maps transferred and two years of service would be $240. In comparing it to a hardware GPS at $200, they sound more like they're trying to justify the price rather than admit the $200 number they've come up with is quite high. They don't mention that IQRoutes is only available on their highest cost models.

Tunnelrunner

Aug 5, 2009, 08:36 AM

I also don't get their comment...

TomTom charges for map updates on everything else they sell and there's no reason to think the iPhone application would be any different. A one year subscription to their map update service is $40. So, if we compare a $200 app/dock price plus two years of maps that would be $280. AT&T Mobile Navigator should always have the most up-to-date maps transferred and two years of service would be $240. In comparing it to a hardware GPS at $200, they sound more like they're trying to justify the price rather than admit the $200 number they've come up with is quite high. They don't mention that IQRoutes is only available on their highest cost models.

Man's got a point. Actually, he makes quite a few good points...

m3coolpix

Aug 5, 2009, 09:41 AM

Man's got a point. Actually, he makes quite a few good points...

As always...

One other thing to consider, though, is that you don't necessarily HAVE to update your maps....

It's an interesting scenario. You don't know if an address exists in your TBT navigation software (any of them) until you try to find it. But then a map update from that vendor comes out and you may feel compelled to upgrade 'just because' you have to have the latest and greatest, when all along, you may have already had the address and you didn't know it, cause you've never had to search for it. And, it's probably impossible to see the actual 'update list' from map version to map version.

curly14

Aug 5, 2009, 12:53 PM

People hold your horses Tom Tom will be out Sept 3

Rayfire

Aug 5, 2009, 01:19 PM

People hold your horses Tom Tom will be out Sept 3

where did you get that if I may ask?

and I do remember I'm at MacRumors

avaloncourt

Aug 5, 2009, 01:25 PM

As always...

One other thing to consider, though, is that you don't necessarily HAVE to update your maps....

It's an interesting scenario. You don't know if an address exists in your TBT navigation software (any of them) until you try to find it. But then a map update from that vendor comes out and you may feel compelled to upgrade 'just because' you have to have the latest and greatest, when all along, you may have already had the address and you didn't know it, cause you've never had to search for it. And, it's probably impossible to see the actual 'update list' from map version to map version.

BUT you can always go to the map-developer's website and check to see if there is any difference. I used to do that frequently back around 2000-2003 because the maps were notoriously old (sometimes 5-10 years old). I was burned too many times buying map update sets only to find out there was no difference in areas that were terribly incorrect.

Both TeleAtlas and Navteq have ways for you to look up addresses on their own websites and see the resulting maps. You can go to their respective websites and look up an address if a particular area is important to you. Also, keep in mind that Google uses TeleAtlas now so you can just do a Google Maps search if you want to see if an area is actually accurate. Google had been split up at one time so you could see TeleAtlas on their mobile products and Navteq on their web products but that isn't the case any more. Everything is TeleAtlas now.

TomTom takes much of the pain our of the update pricing. You can decide to take a one-off map update but the hit is $80. If you choose their annual subscription with quarterly updates the price drops to $40. I suppose someone could just drag their feet for most of a year and then start doing some Google searches to see if any particular areas have been updated. If so, do one cycle of the subscription model and you'd be half the price of a one-off map update.

satcomer

Aug 5, 2009, 02:40 PM

Vaporware at this point!

FearlessFreep

Aug 5, 2009, 03:12 PM

People hold your horses Tom Tom will be out Sept 3
At this point Tom Tom has nothing to gain by withholding a release date. In fact, there's a lot of missed sales because people are buying Navigon and iGo which appear to be perfectly fine for many users. If the app truly was going to be out 9/3, they would have said so by now (or should have).

By coming after the others, they're letting those apps demonstrate that TBT GPS navigation on the iPhone does not require a separate mount with an additional GPS chip, thus decreasing any perceived value by forking out the extra cash for that solution.

As time goes by, I am starting to believe the GPS-augmented dock solution is not a wise business strategy by TT. Just as a dedicated phone nav device is a bad idea for Garmin.

The very fact that they are being mum on the whole subject is disconcerting and brings into question their ability to deliver a product.

curly14

Aug 5, 2009, 04:16 PM

where did you get that if I may ask?

and I do remember I'm at MacRumors

yes you may ask ! dosen't mean i will tell... all kidding aside i have a good friend that is close to the project and is able to give me some insight

ct2k7

Aug 5, 2009, 04:22 PM

yes you may ask ! dosen't mean i will tell... all kidding aside i have a good friend that is close to the project and is able to give me some insight

You joined two months ago, and are failing to impress on me that you know more than us.

You can start by answering a few questions:

Why has it taken such a long time for anything about TomTom to be released, whilst a working version was reported by TomTom in 2008 to be functional on the Apple iPhone?

September 3rd is the date that I am in school, so far, I am unimpressed by TomTom's PR towards all of this, especially with a broken site. Do you agree that TomTom will have made a huge loss in the fact that they have been overtaken by several competitors?

tombarnes

Aug 5, 2009, 04:39 PM

People hold your horses Tom Tom will be out Sept 3

But isn't September technically Autumn (fall for our american friends). You mean they have lied to us!? :eek:

curly14

Aug 5, 2009, 04:43 PM

You joined two months ago, and are failing to impress on me that you know more than us.Never had i ever implied that i know more then anyone on this forum but i do know more then some people !

You can start by answering a few questions:

Why has it taken such a long time for anything about TomTom to be released, From what i been told they are on the tale end of sending the app out for sale have not been given direct details whilst a working version was reported by TomTom in 2008 to be functional on the Apple iPhone?

September 3rd is the date that I am in school,what does that have to do with anything ? so far, I am unimpressed by TomTom's PR towards all of this, especially with a broken site. Do you agree that TomTom will have made a huge loss in the fact that they have been overtaken by several competitors?i agree all the more reason they are under the gun to release the program in working order with out having to send out a patch but they are leaving alot of money on the table

curly14

Aug 5, 2009, 04:43 PM

curly14

Aug 5, 2009, 04:46 PM

But isn't September technically Autumn (fall for our american friends). You mean they have lied to us!? :eek:

Sept 22 is the first day of Autumn here in the US so really still Summer till then;)

Scooterman1

Aug 5, 2009, 04:51 PM

How far away is the TomTom iPhone app?

How far away is the Netherlands?

I know, I know, but that's about as close as it is to us for now.

avaloncourt

Aug 6, 2009, 06:45 AM

Engadget jumps on the bandwagon this time around...

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/tomtoms-iphone-car-kit-and-navigation-software-priced-overseas/

Nothing new here. It refers to the same UK seller but they're getting a bit harsh.

TomTom told us that its long-awaited iPhone navigation app and in-car mounting kit would be landing "this summer," and at least on our watch, summertime is quickly drawing to a close. If a pre-order listing over at Handtec is to be believed, it looks as if the outfit is exceedingly close to finally having both the software and hardware ready for shipping. The £113.85 ($194) asking price includes a suction mount for your iPhone as well as the mapping software, though there's no indication of exactly how much the app and hardware will run by themselves. Of course, until the iPhone supports multitasking, using it as a dedicated PND is still a risky move; one stray call during a pivotal moment in your travels and you can consider yourself lost. Oh, and then there's the fact that this thing has a TomTom logo on it -- if the iPhone app functions anything like the company's high-end GO 740 LIVE, we'd say you're better off asking Mr. Gas Station attendant (or buying a different brand).

Ouch. Roughly a month ago there was an article with a TomTom quote stating the application supported in-app call handling. Who knows if that was the truth at this point. Maybe that's the slowdown. It just didn't work but, as for the 740 Live, this is the first time I've seen a post that it works poorly.

In this review (http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/12/tomtom-go-740-live-impressions/), the comment that their Live service is mediocre at best and certainly not worth the monthly $9.95 they're charging. They also weren't all that happy with the interface and accuracy. I hope it's not the same root software that the iPhone app will be using.

It's funny how, after making us wait for so long, the writers are all beginning to turn on TomTom.

sneeks

Aug 6, 2009, 08:58 AM

At only £25.99 I think I'll buy Co-Pilot from the App Store instead

tivoboy

Aug 6, 2009, 12:00 PM

At only £25.99 I think I'll buy Co-Pilot from the App Store instead

yeah, I wish they had it for the USA. I've used their products for years, and while the routing in Europe from ALK is different than in USA, they use TELE ATLAS in euroland, and their OWN map data here in the USA, I would still buy it since it has about eight years of my DATA on it.

ct2k7

Aug 6, 2009, 04:41 PM

TomTom could provide us with a voucher for exactly the amount of how much the TomTom app costs.

jacobgaul

Aug 6, 2009, 05:02 PM

umm

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/tomtoms-iphone-car-kit-and-navigation-software-priced-overseas/#continued

close to $200 **** THAT

avaloncourt

Aug 6, 2009, 05:05 PM

umm

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/tomtoms-iphone-car-kit-and-navigation-software-priced-overseas/#continued

close to $200 **** THAT

Dude, you really need to read the thread or at least four posts above yours for exactly the same article. This price has been discussed a lot.

jacobgaul

Aug 6, 2009, 07:31 PM

i was simply quoting n messed up when i did it.

severe

Aug 6, 2009, 07:33 PM

too late.

ct2k7

Aug 6, 2009, 07:41 PM

Rayfire

Aug 6, 2009, 08:27 PM

http://smartphones.about.com/b/2009/...ice-leaked.htm (http://smartphones.about.com/b/2009/08/06/tomtom-denies-iphone-app-price-leaked.htm)

Just to inform you that TomTom Denies iPhone App Price Leaked

"pricing not publicly available"

"maintains release this summer"

oh boy.. Good luck to all who's waiting

ct2k7

Aug 6, 2009, 08:31 PM

"pricing not publicly available"

"maintains release this summer"

oh boy.. Good luck to all who's waiting

This is going to be fun: http://forum.o2.co.uk/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif

avaloncourt

Aug 6, 2009, 10:05 PM

I figured that was coming but...

Handtec is not an official TomTom distributor. Moreover, TomTom has not yet made pricing information publically available."

makes it more interesting. So, was Hantec just trying to screw over a bunch of people? I don't know the company so I have no idea if they're fly-by-night.

Ron21

Aug 6, 2009, 10:29 PM

The Tomtom app needs to have the following :

TTS
Map Share
Live Services (no extra charge)

those 3 things will set it apart from every other App in the App Store.

I just hope the App is fully polished and complete when they release it. I hate how current GPS apps in the store say "Future update we'll have this and that..".

avaloncourt

Aug 6, 2009, 10:44 PM

The Tomtom app needs to have the following :

TTS

Their regular TomTom Navigator product that's been out for years doesn't have it. So, unlikely.

Map Share

The TomTom VP is quoted as he doesn't know if they'll have it worked out for the release. That would seem to indicate they're working on it.

Live Services (no extra charge)

That's a tough one. The 740 Live is $9.95 a month just as the Dash Express was with a long term subscription ($12.99 month to month). Much of that was because they were picking up the bill for the cellular connection. We're eating that cost but I think they'd go reduced rate rather than no charge. They seem to like to charge for everything else.

pooryou

Aug 7, 2009, 03:48 PM

close to $200 **** THAT

avaloncourt

Aug 7, 2009, 05:55 PM

I'm amazed at how many sites don't ever bother checking sources or even getting information right at all. I've been ignoring all of the 'me too' reports that are just regurgitating the same handtec stuff but I came across this from another British site, Mobilewire.

http://www.mobilewire.co.uk/07-08-2009-iphone-tomtom-satellite-navigation-price-set.html

The good news is that at least Apple has finally set a price, listing the new application at £113.85.

Included in the package with the TomTom application is a branded cable, amplified sound, on the go charging, and turn by turn navigation.

Apple? :rolleyes: This guy is smoking some serious stuff since we know the $113.85 price is right off the Handtec listing with the tax included. I am amused at the differing opinions about the price being reasonable or outrageous. This guy above thought it was way too high but product-review.com says...

If the price turns out to be true though, $168.50 is not a bad deal at all, considering most standalone TomToms retail for around $200. Let us know your thoughts on the news.

Well, for that money most people would actually get hardware. We're being given the privilege of buying our own hardware (the phone) and then spending that hardware-GPS equivalent price for a cradle and software.

Rayfire

Aug 10, 2009, 05:24 PM

Sept 22 anyone? :rolleyes:

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/10/tomtom-special-media-event-on-september-22nd/)

"Brightsite", the Twitter account of Dutch site Bright.nl (http://www.bright.nl/), reports (http://twitter.com/Brightsite/status/3225317668) that TomTom has sent out a brief invitation to a special media event scheduled for September 22nd. iPhoneclub.nl reprints (http://www.iphoneclub.nl/32981/tomtom-gaat-op-22-september-toekomst-van-navigatie-onthullen/) [Google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.iphoneclub.nl/32981/tomtom-gaat-op-22-september-toekomst-van-navigatie-onthullen/)] the text of the invitation in its entirety:While no mention of the much-anticipated TomTom for iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/07/07/more-details-on-tomtom-for-iphone-emerge/) hardware/software solution is made in the invitation, speculation is unsurprisingly touching on the introduction of the company's iPhone offerings as a possible topic for the event.

Article Link: TomTom Special Media Event on September 22nd? (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/10/tomtom-special-media-event-on-september-22nd/)

ct2k7

Aug 10, 2009, 06:06 PM

Sept 22 anyone? :rolleyes:

Last day of Summer -> TomTom Fail!

Pika

Aug 10, 2009, 06:16 PM

Sept 22 anyone? :rolleyes:

At that time, people get ready for winter snow.

avaloncourt

Aug 10, 2009, 09:51 PM

Last day of Summer -> TomTom Fail!

Actually, no. September 22 is the first day of Autumn/Fall. If this is indeed the iPhone announcement they completely missed summer. Someone send them a calender with the first day of Autumn circled.

Mega-fail. Unbelievable.

ct2k7

Aug 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

Actually, no. September 22 is the first day of Autumn/Fall. If this is indeed the iPhone announcement they completely missed summer. Someone send them a calender with the first day of Autumn circled.

Mega-fail. Unbelievable.

My calendar disagrees with you :/

Just call it the September Equinox for Simplicity.

ddrueckhammer

Aug 10, 2009, 10:20 PM

ct2k7

Aug 10, 2009, 10:21 PM

Rayfire

Aug 10, 2009, 10:26 PM

At least they kept up to what they've said (if this will really happen) since that is really one late summer. They're already late for the party...

Tunnelrunner

Aug 10, 2009, 11:06 PM

Ok screw TomTom. I already knew that the TomTom mount probably wouldn't be for me because I want to use it with a case but should I get Syngic, Navigon, or wait for CoPilot?

I thought Navigon would be best but iLounge said to go with Syngic because the POI database is better and maps are older on Navigon...

In some past reviews I'd written, I last rated Navigon/G-Map slightly higher than Sygic. As time has passed on and I've done more testing, I think I'm going to have to revise my ratings. I'm actually thinking Sygic is slightly better than Navigon. As you stated, Sygic has better POI, more accurate routing (from my testing), and it locks onto an initial GPS signal much faster than Navigon. Navigon's scrolling is smoother, but overall, Sygic is the more functional app. I would rate Sygic and G-Map as fairly equal and slightly above Navigon, but truth be told, all 3 apps are close enough in quality that you could get by with any of them.

Getting back to the main point: there's already a GPS app for everyone, whether your favorite is Sygic, Navigon (seems to be the most popular pick @ MacRumors), G-Map, IGO, Co-Pilot, Gokivo, or (my personal favorite) AT&T Navigator/Telenav. TomTom has lost a significant amount of customers to GPS apps that are already capable and work just fine without a carkit -- I still think their launch will be a successful one, but it could have been so much more had they moved just a wee bit faster...

avaloncourt

Aug 10, 2009, 11:43 PM

My calendar disagrees with you :/

Just call it the September Equinox for Simplicity.

September Equinox then... September 22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

Look at the yellow highlight line on the right. You'd better get a new calendar. :)

Pika

Aug 10, 2009, 11:51 PM

TomTom is here ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTmueheIZQ)

. WOW

toxictrix

Aug 11, 2009, 12:40 AM

Looking forward to TOMTOM. Hopefully it can replace Navigon on my phone which I like a lot already.

Kashchei

Aug 11, 2009, 12:43 AM

Looking forward to TOMTOM. Hopefully it can replace Navigon on my phone which I like a lot already.

You got me with that one!

Vinny1967

Aug 11, 2009, 02:26 AM

ddrueckhammer

Aug 11, 2009, 02:52 AM

FearlessFreep

Aug 11, 2009, 09:39 AM

I've seen mention of Navigon, Sygic and CoPilot.
Hasn't anyone here considered iGo My Way?
I bought the Western Europe edition last week and I am blown away by the quality and reliability.
For some reason this excellent alternative to TomTom seems to have been overlooked.
Yes, this looks like a really good solution. I'm buying either iGo My Way or Navigon by the end of the week. My reasons are varied: first, I like the idea of having a mount-independent solution. My wife and I both have iPhones and paying once for a nav solution means I don't spend twice for the hardware. In addition, it appears from all accounts that a GPS chip-assisted dock isn't necessary. The above mentioned applications all do a fairly decent job at routing by all accounts. We have garmin 200's in both of our cars and they are excellent entry-level GPS devices. But we really only need our GPS when traveling. For day-to-day use, it just isn't necessary.

Not having a separate PND or dock to lug around is great. I had one of the first Garmins, the Quest, several years ago. It had its own dedicated dock that served as a charging interface and housed the speaker in the cord. It was a pain - every time you wanted to use the GPS you had to go through the trouble of putting up the mount because invariably the suction would fall off, then dock the GPS and plug it in - all before you even turned on the GPS. Then you'd have to remove it when done or else it'd get stolen by a smash and grab.

The Tom Tom solution will likely be easier, but if it's not necessary, why bother? I can pay once for a package, put it on both phones and place it in the existing mount in our car and go. If it's easy like that, I'll probably use it more.