Arizona: OK to bring gun into bar, but if you do, then don't drink...

[LizKat]

Seriously. Arizona just passed a few new laws related to firearms. One of them says concealed permit holders can now legally bring their handgun into bars or restaurants that serve alcohol (as long as the bar has not opted out by putting up a sign next to the liquor license, unless the sign has fallen down in which case the opt-out is invalidated). But, mind you, it's not OK to drink in there while carrying a weapon. Wait.. what?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-13-arizona-guns_N.htm
One of their other new gun laws says it will now be OK, if you feel threatened, to indicate that you're carrying a weapon, without violating existing statutes on intimidation, but only in instances of self-defense. Imagine the court cases lining up behind that ball of wax.

[BoyBach]

If the weapon is concealed how will the bar staff know not to serve them?

[dukebound85]

i applaud this

[it5five]

Meanwhile, our state legislature has not been able to pass a functional budget. But they made sure that this bill was passed. Typical of this state.

I hope the restaurants I frequent disallow weapons to be carried in, otherwise I'm going to stop going.

[spaceboots06]

Second Amendment. Thank you.

When bars become gun free zones like schools then they should think twice about this.

[it5five]

If the weapon is concealed how will the bar staff know not to serve them?

They won't, but that's the whole point anyway. They couldn't have allowed those carrying to openly drink, but since the weapons are concealed anyway, there is no clear way of knowing if someone has a gun on them or not. It's just a roundabout way of allowed all patrons of bars to drink without explicitly saying so in the law.

[dukebound85]

Second Amendment. Thank you.

When bars become gun free zones like schools then they should think twice about this.

you can carry at my school

[LizKat]

If the weapon is concealed how will the bar staff know not to serve them?

Bingo. Open loophole, drive truck through it.

btw if you carry a weapon openly on belt or holstered in view (legal in AZ) then you still are not allowed to go in the bar with it. Now THAT guy the bartender could see potential trouble coming, but whether he would serve him or not is a good question. "Hey you can't come in here sporting that sidearm, pal."

[dukebound85]

Bingo. Open loophole, drive truck through it.

btw if you carry a weapon openly on belt or holstered in view (legal in AZ) then you still are not allowed to go in the bar with it. Now THAT guy the bartender could see potential trouble coming, but whether he would serve him or not is a good question. "Hey you can't come in here sporting that sidearm, pal."

if you carry a firearm openly in public, thats illegal as it no longer concealed

[LizKat]

It's legal in Arizona.

[hulugu]

Meanwhile, our state legislature has not been able to pass a functional budget. But they made sure that this bill was passed. Typical of this state....

That pissed me off. The legislators allowed the budget negotiations to run over two extra days, but they had plenty of time to pass picayune bills like this one.

[it5five]

It's legal in Arizona.

Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)#Arizona

I see "macho men" openly carrying almost every day. I feel incredibly uncomfortable if I am forced to be near them for any period of time. When I worked at a gas station, I felt very unsafe whenever any customer walked in openly carrying.

[FX120]

if you carry a firearm openly in public, thats illegal as it no longer concealed

Hardly. Arizona is an "open carry" state, meaning that you can legally carry a firearm unconcealed without a permit in public. It is concealed carry which is illegal without a permit.

Some cities and municipalities may have ordinances reversing this, but at the state level it is legal.

[dukebound85]

Hardly. Arizona is an "open carry" state, meaning that you can legally carry a firearm unconcealed without a permit in public. This is contrary to concealed carry, which is illegal without a permit.

Some cities and municipalities may have ordinances reversing this, but at the state level it is legal.
my mistake

[it5five]

That pissed me off. The legislators allowed the budget negotiations to run over two extra days, but they had plenty of time to pass picayune bills like this one.

Wasn't this also after the Senate leadership said they wouldn't give any consideration to any non-budget bills as well?

This entire session has been a joke.

[FX120]

Yeah, it seems a little silly to waste time on a bill like this when you've got a budget to pass...

While I won't say it's a bad thing, it's probably not a priority.

[spaceboots06]

Bingo. Open loophole, drive truck through it.

btw if you carry a weapon openly on belt or holstered in view (legal in AZ) then you still are not allowed to go in the bar with it. Now THAT guy the bartender could see potential trouble coming, but whether he would serve him or not is a good question. "Hey you can't come in here sporting that sidearm, pal."

Open loophole? Are you kidding? It's called breaking the law, not bending rules. I have a car. I have alcohol. I'm not supposed to mix both. I guess it's an open loophole that I own both. Oh no.

[hulugu]

Yeah, it seems a little silly to waste time on a bill like this when you've got a budget to pass...

While I won't say it's a bad thing, it's probably not a priority.

The timing was the worst part, but I'm not sure what good this bill does. Best case scenario, a C&C gun owner will be ejected from the bar for either consuming alcohol or for some other offense if the bar owner wants to and it's just made it more difficult for bouncers to refuse entry to people they deem to be problematic.

It's a bill that creates lawsuits.

[.Andy]

Even if it's 100 alcohol induced bar shootings to 1 act of self-defense this will still be lauded by young males. American and their love of weapons.

[LizKat]

Open loophole? Are you kidding? It's called breaking the law, not bending rules. I have a car. I have alcohol. I'm not supposed to mix both. I guess it's an open loophole that I own both. Oh no.

Not quite the same thing. This was purposefully creating a loopholed-law to fit the Arizona custom. Used to be illegal to be in there with the concealed weapon. Presumably you were in there to drink. Now it's legal to be in there with the concealed weapon. Presumably you are in there to drink. Don't ask, don't tell...

[Gelfin]

If the weapon is concealed how will the bar staff know not to serve them?

I expect this is a little like asking how the bar staff is supposed to know a particular patron arrived in a car instead of a taxi. If they know, they've got a certain responsibility, but the law doesn't oblige them to know. If you're drunk enough to draw police attention to yourself and they find you have a firearm, then you're in trouble.

Don't interpret this as any conclusion on my part about the law itself. I just think this is probably the answer to your question.

[killerrobot]

Remind me to to stay on the North Side of the Grand Canyon Rim when doing tourism around AZ. ;)

So, open weapon not-allowed in bars, but a concealed weapon is. That just seems so bass ackwards to me.

[Zombie Acorn]

I don't have a problem with it, my friend who owns a bar carries all night, frequent place for robberies.

[Desertrat]

it5five, I suggest not worrying about it. A buddy of mine walked into a bar in Wyoming and was startled to see folks drinking while doing the open-carry thing. He asked around about the deal, and the general attitude was, "Aw, no problem..."

In Texas, you can carry via CHL into a bar and drink, so long as the bar has not posted signage against the carrying. So far, there have been no problems.

Both the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Texa Department of Public Safety have publicly stated that of all identifiable groups, CHL people have very much the lowest arrest rate of all the citizenry.

Hey, I'm certified by my local sheriff and the FBI as being a good guy. Can you say that? :)

'Rat

[leekohler]

I'm all for gun ownership and legal carry laws, but anyone who takes a gun into a bar is asking for trouble. I'm sorry- that's just not a good idea. It's plain stupid.

[NT1440]

Even if it's 100 alcohol induced bar shootings to 1 act of self-defense this will still be lauded by young males. American and their love of weapons.

Its sad the mentality of many in this country isn't it?

[MTI]

I'm all for gun ownership and legal carry laws, but anyone who takes a gun into a bar is asking for trouble. I'm sorry- that's just not a good idea. It's plain stupid.

Neither is going to a bar or place that serves alcohol . . . that has a parking lot. ;)

[leekohler]

Neither is going to a bar or place that serves alcohol . . . that has a parking lot. ;)

I agree with that as well. I live in the city, where that's not an issue. We stumble home. :) If I'm ever out of town in a smaller place, I absolutely refuse to ride in a car if the driver has been drinking.

[Zombie Acorn]

I agree with that as well. I live in the city, where that's not an issue. We stumble home. :) If I'm ever out of town in a smaller place, I absolutely refuse to ride in a car if the driver has been drinking.

Not really much choice, no taxis. :D

[FX120]

Oddly enough, a couple of days ago there was a shooting at a local bar about 4 blocks from my house, where a group of people were beating up another guy, and then one of the assailants pulled a knife. His buddy stepped in, pulled him outside where they were followed by the group. His buddy then drew his CCW, and eventually ended up firing a shot into the street outside the bar, ending the fight.

It's not too shocking to hear a fight broke out in front of Sewickly's bar on Hawthorne last Friday night, but it is unusual to have an actual video of the fight. Portlander Phillip Ragaway stepped outside Tanker down the block to smoke a cigarette, saw the rowdy fight break out and rushed over to film the throw down on his cell phone camera.

"All of a sudden a guy pulls out a gun and I was like, 'Whoa, I'm going to get behind this pole,'" says Ragaway, who continued filming. According to the police, one guy pulled a knife on a man who had a concealed weapons permit. The guy with the gun fired into the street and the fight dispersed. Over all the swearing, it was impossible to tell what the fight was actually about.

Very quickly, says Ragaway, about a dozen cops showed up, put the two guys on the ground and took them into custody. Watch the very tense video here:
http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2009/07/13/video-of-bar-fight-and-gun-shot-outside-sewicklys

[Desertrat]

NT1440, bar shootings are relatively uncommon. Far and away the most are turf-war shootings among the druggies. The next most common also involve drugs, whether deals gone sour or holdups to get money for drugs.