Apple Demands Microsoft Pull Laptop Hunter Ads

[WickedRabbit]

Not sure if this has been posted (or why it hasn't in case it hasn't) but this is sort of interesting:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10288022-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

[jessica.]

Dear Apple,
Good luck with that.
Did MS ask for the I'm a Mac ads to be pulled?

[Stella]

I was just about to post this too!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/15/microsoft-exec-says-apple-asked-them-stop-airing-laptop-hunters/

Personally, I think its quote a hoot! Apple asking Microsoft to stop posting "Anti-Apple" ads, especially when Apple have been doing the same with microsoft!

[Eidorian]

Comments on Engadget are having a field day with it.

Turner said that he knows the ads are working because "two weeks ago we got a call from the Apple legal department saying [...] 'Hey, you need to stop running those ads, we lowered our prices.'" Turner further went on to note that "they took like $100 off or something," before stating to applause that it "was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business" -- though he did apparently take a minute to ask: "Is this a joke? Who are you?" In case you're wondering, Turner also confirmed that Microsoft is indeed "just going to keep running them and running them and running them."

[toxictrix]

Kevin Turner sure does sound like a tool.

[Tomorrow]

I've seen the ads - while I don't necessarily think they tell the entire story, they do appear to tell a truthful story.

Generally, a Mac does cost more for similar hardware, relative to a PC - but the TV commercials are, at best, vague about the specs on the PC laptops. I know the "hunter" mentions some features they would like to see, but we never see any real feature-for-feature comparison.

I'm not sure Apple can strike this down; it doesn't sound like Microsoft is being untruthful, and not even particularly misleading.

[FunkyMonkey]

Comments on Engadget are having a field day with it.

And they have every right to. Apple is wrong on this one.

[NT1440]

Uh, this doesn't exactly sound credible. Even if Apple did call I highly doubt the MS guy didn't put their own spin on it (as anyone in the business would).

[jav6454]

As much as I despise Microsoft, Apple has not right to dictate MS what it can air on the ad front. Apple aired "Get a Mac" ads, and they were great. No MS is striking back. All Apple can do is watch and innovate on a new advertising method.

I can call the strike back questionable at best since many of those cheap PCs have no exact comparison to the Mac equivalent being compared. So they don't exactly tell the truth.

However, the ads work on less tech savy people. Its marketing. Apple took advantage of it, anyone can.

What Apple should really be doing is start changing their "Get a Mac" campaign ads and focus on something new and catchy; more so than "Laptop Hunters"

[upinflames900]

The ads are misleading in many ways though...I can understand why mac is upset. I don't think they should be calling and asking for the ads to be removed that is just asking for it to be thrown in their face. It is a shame that the laptop hunter ads are working, because all they do is convince people to buy a windows laptop without actually offering any evidence or credible data to support it. I know the ads piss me off when I see them because they don't ever compare the two laptops feature for feature. It isn't illegal but it is crummy what Microsoft is doing.

[bruinsrme]

The ads are misleading in many ways though...I can understand why mac is upset. I don't think they should be calling and asking for the ads to be removed that is just asking for it to be thrown in their face. It is a shame that the laptop hunter ads are working, because all they do is convince people to buy a windows laptop without actually offering any evidence or credible data to support it. I know the ads piss me off when I see them because they don't ever compare the two laptops feature for feature. It isn't illegal but it is crummy what Microsoft is doing.

Who's mac? The guy driving the dump truck?
Misleading ads, how so?

What features of the laptops do you want them to compare, blu-ray for instance? Perhaps, larger screen, more ram, faster processor for less money?

[WickedRabbit]

The ads are misleading in many ways though...I can understand why mac is upset. I don't think they should be calling and asking for the ads to be removed that is just asking for it to be thrown in their face. It is a shame that the laptop hunter ads are working, because all they do is convince people to buy a windows laptop without actually offering any evidence or credible data to support it. I know the ads piss me off when I see them because they don't ever compare the two laptops feature for feature. It isn't illegal but it is crummy what Microsoft is doing.

To be fair, Apple isn't entirely out of the misleading or stretching the realm of perception either. Remember that disclaimer commercial where like half of the 23 steps listed were talking about running defrag. Pretty sure I find myself running Disk Utility on my new iMac pretty often to clear up quite a few things. That, of course, would be the Mac version of a defrag. There are other examples, but I'm not going to get in to it. That's just the first one that comes to mind that stood out the most for me.

[pdjudd]

That, of course, would be the Mac version of a defrag. .

No, that's not accurate at all. Mac's do not require defragmenting - the file system (HFA Journaled) does that.

If you are referring to repairing permissions, that is a repair function roughly equal to chkdsk on the PC - it should only be done if you are having problems.

[LethalWolfe]

The ads are misleading in many ways though...I can understand why mac is upset. I don't think they should be calling and asking for the ads to be removed that is just asking for it to be thrown in their face. It is a shame that the laptop hunter ads are working, because all they do is convince people to buy a windows laptop without actually offering any evidence or credible data to support it. I know the ads piss me off when I see them because they don't ever compare the two laptops feature for feature. It isn't illegal but it is crummy what Microsoft is doing.
Riiiight. If you seriously think this you need to take a step back 'cause you are seriously approaching Apple fan-boy territory. Every person that has ever advertised anything has put their product in the best light possible and their competitors product in poor light (assuming a head-to-head type comparison).


Lethal

[upinflames900]

Who's mac? The guy driving the dump truck?
Misleading ads, how so?

What features of the laptops do you want them to compare, blu-ray for instance? Perhaps, larger screen, more ram, faster processor for less money?

I can see you obviously disagree with me...no need to point out the fact that the company's name is apple. The ads dont give a comparison of what you are actually getting. I would like to see here is mac with processor, hard drive, screen size, etc and here is pc with... However if they did that it wouldn't be as effective for Microsoft. I just want them to actually say more than jeez these macs are expensive.

Riiiight. If you seriously think this you need to take a step back 'cause you are seriously approaching Apple fan-boy territory. Every person that has ever advertised anything has put their product in the best light possible and their competitors product in poor light (assuming a head-to-head type comparison).


Lethal

Okay I am not an apple fan boy, but thanks for the insult. My point is I see the ads as misleading. If you don't then just say so and state why you dont have to pick a fight with me. I am simply expressing my opinion thats all no more. I understand advertising, but I just feel that it is a little (perhaps not illegally so) misleading thats all. If you disagree fine.

[bruinsrme]

I can see you obviously disagree with me...no need to point out the fact that the company's name is apple. The ads dont give a comparison of what you are actually getting. I would like to see here is mac with processor, hard drive, screen size, etc and here is pc with... However if they did that it wouldn't be as effective for Microsoft. I just want them to actually say more than jeez these macs are expensive.

thats the WHOLE point of the commercials, macs are MORE expensive than pc notebooks.
Watch them again, The commercials do say they are aesthetically pleasing.

[nostaws]

If apple legal really did this they are stupid. What do they think MS would say?

[Superdrive]

Uh, this doesn't exactly sound credible. Even if Apple did call I highly doubt the MS guy didn't put their own spin on it (as anyone in the business would).

QFT. You said it about as good as anyone could have.

[upinflames900]

thats the WHOLE point of the commercials, macs are MORE expensive than pc notebooks.
Watch them again, The commercials do say they are aesthetically pleasing.

A PC with a 2.66GHz Quad Core is probably more expensive than a PC with a 1.2 GHz Pentium 4...my point is mac is a higher end machine and the price difference is not that different if you compare it to a higher end windows machine. And again...I dont want to have to defend myself. If you think that you dont have to direct it at me.

[bruinsrme]

A PC with a 2.66GHz Quad Core is probably more expensive than a PC with a 1.2 GHz Pentium 4...my point is mac is a higher end machine and the price difference is not that different if you compare it to a higher end windows machine. And again...I dont want to have to defend myself. If you think that you dont have to direct it at me.

I want to understand, perhaps my thinking is warped, please help me understand.
higher end?
how so?

[ChadBrommer]

I find myself to be incredulous to the truthfulness of this story. Hmmm. No paper proof or recording when you know they "record for quality insurance."

[IBradMac]

I was just about to post this too!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/15/microsoft-exec-says-apple-asked-them-stop-airing-laptop-hunters/

Personally, I think its quote a hoot! Apple asking Microsoft to stop posting "Anti-Apple" ads, especially when Apple have been doing the same with microsoft!

Thats odd. Her face will look just the same in a year from now upon returning the machine for either spyware, malware, or virus fixes. ;)

[Small White Car]

If the MS ads say something that's no longer correct, they should change it.

But I'm not sure what they're talking about here. They don't mention an exact price for any Mac as far as I remember. Is there a version I haven't seen?

I kind of expect that by tomorrow morning this will turn out to be a hoax. If there was some part where they said "A Mac costs $x" then I'd believe it, but I don't remember hearing that in any of the ads.

If this is true it is very strange.

[neutrino23]

Very bizarre story. Sounds like BS to me. Maybe someone called with a very specific complaint about a particular claim? Even that sounds iffy.

And that's the reason he knows they are effective? Because Apple legal called? They don't have metrics that tell them whether this ad money was well spent? If there is truth to this at all this is something small that was blown out of proportion.

[pika2000]

First of all, will a legal department from big companies call you? Highly unlikely. Most of them will contact you via fax/letter. So I smell publicity stunts. MS, could you just put Ballmer jumping around again? That is more entertaining.

[smurfjammer]

Would they call or send a letter, I find it a bit strange that they just rung up :confused:

[oyebto]

is this story part of the laptop ads too? :D

[habubauza]

I'm thankful for the MS ads, because if it wasn't for them, I doubt we would have seen SD card reader, or return of firewire to the 13" in the latest macbook updates.

[upinflames900]

I want to understand, perhaps my thinking is warped, please help me understand.
higher end?
how so?

Okay...your thinking is not warped this is just my opinion on the matter. So you walk into a store and you are going to buy a computer. If you see the MBP you are going to say wow thats a lot of money. Then if you go to the Windows section you will say hmm...these are cheeper. But why is that? In my opinion, the MBP is a higher end machine than the laptop the person walks out of the store with. Apple doesn't really make a "low end" computer, which right or wrong is in a way being exploited by Microsoft. It isn't so much the price difference between a comparable PC and Mac, it is the price difference between the average PC and the average Mac. Hopefully that makes sense... It is like arguing that cadillac must be a bad brand because the average cadillac costs more than the average honda. But if I compared a lexus with a cadillac there might be some difference but not like what they portray on the commercial.

[jaw04005]

Kevin Turner sure does sound like a tool.

I'm surprised he's making such comments as the COO. Comments like that are usually reserved for the snotty public relations or marketing department.

Personally, I find Turner's comments a bit bizarre. Why would Apple's legal department contact the COO? In all likelihood, Turner received a phone call from Microsoft's legal department regarding the manner. His entire story seems a bit odd.

By the way, this is also the same guy who made the comment about Microsoft building their stores next to Apple stores.

[hd1972]

You guys are missing the point -- the recent commercials were quoting specs/prices/whatever about Macs *before* the latest refresh. They were misrepresenting the current line of Macbooks.

Some friends and I had seen the commercial recently and thought the same thing -- "Microsoft is talking about OLD Apple Macbooks?! Not cool!"

[Small White Car]

The more I re-read this story, the more I think the headline of the article should end with a "?"

It REALLY sounds embellished. Like, maybe Apple called and said "you said x in the ad, now it's y." And this guy turns that into "Apple said to stop airing the ads!"

Dunno. I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

[Bravo]

I can't (Edit: DON'T) believe Apple would call MS and ask them to stop airing a commercial.

I also can't believe those commercials actually work. They're so stupid.

I'm a PC guy: Macs are all about aesthetics and less about computing power.

Really? Just about every benchmark I've seen disagrees, even when the Mac is booting Windows.

[Peace]

I'm surprised he's making such comments as the COO. Comments like that are usually reserved for the snotty public relations or marketing department.

Personally, I find Turner's comments a bit bizarre. Why would Apple's legal department contact the COO? In all likelihood, Turner received a phone call from Microsoft's legal department regarding the manner. His entire story seems a bit odd.

By the way, this is also the same guy who made the comment about Microsoft building their stores next to Apple stores.

I seriously doubt even Apple legal called MS legal much less the COO..

Legal things are done legally.

[i4k20c]

I hope this isn't true, because the apple back in the day would've welcomed more competition.

and apple has taken many more keen stabs at MS.

[slapppy]

Ahh yeah and I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

[mac jones]

A sign of the times.

Obviously it's going to work now. But this El-cheapo campaign will go south if the economy goes north.

[benjohnson]

This is, without question, a way for Microsoft to get more press. It's bait that they want Apple to take. Apple would be smart to just ignore it all together. Because if they can get this all over the media, like they have so far, it puts them in a good light. It shows that Apple is frustrated and that there might be some truth in the Microsoft commercials. Which is the complete opposite of reality. It's way to get traction and make way for their retail stores.

Whether you like Microsoft or not, I don't think you can argue that Microsoft is a pretty smart company when its comes to being tricky and slimy. All that you have to do is look at their past.

[bruinsrme]

When I was looking at MBP the 15 inch was going to run me about $2300.
So I bought a Dell for $1600 with a bumper to bumper warranty, more ram faster processor, blu-ray, higher resolution than the mac but the same piece of sheet nvidia 8600T video card. The same video cards that have plagued macs with problems as well as PC's.

Macs are a great machine but come with a premium, at least to my bottom line. The commericals provide information that is true but not so true.

Please don't think Apple gets special chips from Intel because they don't. I worked there and saw all the product codes for the chips sets and processors. They all come off the same wafers, same steppers, same etch tools, same diffusion furnances and implanters. Sure some have a skew, shift or different reticle plate for STR and PLY layers but those are usually associated with speed bumps and L2 cache improvements.


Mac have a very clean design and with that they can charge a premium.

[nozebleed]

sounds like the commercials in fact are not working, so they needed to drum up a little more bs. now they are playing dirty

[Axl Rose]

Hi. I'm a Mac, I can dish it out, but not take it.

[ipoddin]

First of all, will a legal department from big companies call you? Highly unlikely. Most of them will contact you via fax/letter. So I smell publicity stunts. MS, could you just put Ballmer jumping around again? That is more entertaining.

I work for a major media company. A letter would be sent, not a phone call. It's what's called "ceast and desist" and it comes in the form of a letter first, not a phone call.

And what the commercials also fail to tell you is the software you need to buy with the PC to get it to the same level as the software that comes with the Mac.

[mambodancer]

I would be skeptical of this story. This has all the earmarks of an internet hoax or someone being "punked".

[GorillaPaws]

I'd like to see Apple run a Total Cost of Ownership ad where they add up all the extras and do real 1-1 comparisons with PCs.

[MacManiac76]

Maybe MS should actually air a commercial comparing products that both offer. It's easy for them to ridicule a product (a computer system) that they don't produce and don't rely on for direct revenue. MS doesn't have a direct product in the commercials for Apple to respond to other than Windows. Funny how MS doesn't have their commercials comparing OS X to Vista. :rolleyes: Maybe they will when Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are both released. Though I don't see them doing this even then.

[Krizoitz]

Generally, a Mac does cost more for similar hardware, relative to a PC.

Um, no, no they don't. Numerous comparisons have been done that demonstrate similarly specced PC and Mac's cost about the same price.

PC's are only cheaper than Mac's when you take the cheapest PC and compare it to the cheapest Mac. Of course feature-wise they are no where near similar.

What IS accurate would be to say that you can find PC's that are cheaper than Mac's, and for some people thats fine, but its an outright lie to claim that Mac's are overpriced, when they compare feature for feature, because they aren't. The laptop hunter ads skirt this truth as closely as they can, and I find them incredibly distasteful. Why isn't Microsoft talking about WINDOWS the product they actually make?

[JBaker122586]

If there was some part where they said "A Mac costs $x" then I'd believe it, but I don't remember hearing that in any of the ads.

They do.

THAT'S exactly what this is about.

There is one ad where they look at MBPs and say, "The cheapest one is $2,000."

Considering that same model is $1,600 now, I can see why Apple would want that changed, because it is inaccurate.

And doesn't this guy get it? By making these ads in the first place, they are admitting that Apple has gotten to them... Seems a bit hypocritical given his reaction.

Also, Microsoft STILL doesn't make computers.

[Bravo]

Hi. I'm a Mac, I can dish it out, but not take it.

Hi, I'm a PC because I'm poor, and someone is else (Microsoft) is buying it for me.

[apfhex]

thats the WHOLE point of the commercials, macs are MORE expensive than pc notebooks.
No. There are SOME PC laptops (albeit a large SUM - see what I did there?) that are cheaper than Mac laptops. There are also some that are as much or more. The commercials are saying you can get "checklist of features x/y/z for less than the Mac", which is true. Anyone who knows Apple knows their products aren't about having feature x/y/z.

BUT, if Apple really did ask MS to stop airing the ads, that's just really stupid.

[str1f3]

As much as I despise Microsoft, Apple has not right to dictate MS what it can air on the ad front. Apple aired "Get a Mac" ads, and they were great. No MS is striking back. All Apple can do is watch and innovate on a new advertising method.

I can call the strike back questionable at best since many of those cheap PCs have no exact comparison to the Mac equivalent being compared. So they don't exactly tell the truth.

However, the ads work on less tech savy people. Its marketing. Apple took advantage of it, anyone can.

What Apple should really be doing is start changing their "Get a Mac" campaign ads and focus on something new and catchy; more so than "Laptop Hunters"

how do you know if this is even true? That same executive in that same speech also said the Laptop Hunter ads were completely unscripted. This has been proven to be a complete lie.

[aurichie]

Pricing has always been Apple's achilles heal. It's about time Microsoft banged a few goals inside the open net. The ads are not even unfair. They don't deny the fact Apple machines are beautiful, cool and fashionable. They just emphasize the point if you're shopping on a budget you're likely to leave the Apple store disappointed and without any kind of computer. :)

Apple is vulnerable to attack for the first time in awhile. The bad economy weighing on purchasing decisions, and the fact Windows 7 is such a fantastic piece of work. I'm amazed how they have turned the Vista disaster around so quickly. Microsoft has every reason to be confident and to go after Apple in a variety of different ways.

Healthy competition is good for all of us who are not APPL shareholders. :)

[stagi]

I like this ad the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs

[NinjaHERO]

Come on, no one can really believe this can they? They called and asked them to stop because they lowered their prices 100 bucks? Really? People believe Apple did that? I think a billion dollar company has more important things to do than call their competitor and ask them to stop making commercials.


Good for Microsoft though. Anything they can do to distract people from the low quality software they make.:D

[bigjohn]

life is just too short to be worrying about stupid crap like this. i recently had a friend call me with the following scenario:

"I'm on my way to Best Buy and I have $750 to spend on a laptop." I told her one last time to get a mac, it's worth it. She said she couldn't afford it, so I said "Figure out what you want, call me with the model # and I'll tell you if it's a good buy." She found a fairly decent Asus with good specs. I told her it was fine for the money.

Next day, I get a call. She went to a malicious site and is now getting bombarded with popups in IE8. Also, she told me that Best Buy is charging her $150 (plus hardware costs) to transfer data from her old laptop to an external drive.

Of course, I said that she could've spent that extra on a Mac & I would've done the transfer for free.

People are gonna buy/do what they want, all you can do is give them the information.

[upinflames900]

Um, no, no they don't. Numerous comparisons have been done that demonstrate similarly specced PC and Mac's cost about the same price.

PC's are only cheaper than Mac's when you take the cheapest PC and compare it to the cheapest Mac. Of course feature-wise they are no where near similar.

What IS accurate would be to say that you can find PC's that are cheaper than Mac's, and for some people thats fine, but its an outright lie to claim that Mac's are overpriced, when they compare feature for feature, because they aren't. The laptop hunter ads skirt this truth as closely as they can, and I find them incredibly distasteful. Why isn't Microsoft talking about WINDOWS the product they actually make?

I agree completely, but I think apple should be looking the other way and not arguing about this one. It can only make Microsoft more credible if Apple argues.

[Pilsburyfroboy]

If the MS ads say something that's no longer correct, they should change it.

But I'm not sure what they're talking about here. They don't mention an exact price for any Mac as far as I remember. Is there a version I haven't seen?

I kind of expect that by tomorrow morning this will turn out to be a hoax. If there was some part where they said "A Mac costs $x" then I'd believe it, but I don't remember hearing that in any of the ads.

If this is true it is very strange.

They show a close up of the price of a MBP to be $1999 for the base 15in. model, which as we know is no longer true.

It now cost $1699, and I think the laptop being $300 less is enough to call the commercial inaccurate.

I'm guessing Apple legal called MS to ask them to stop showing the incorrect price, *NOT* to ask them to stop showing the laptop hunter ads all together because they were afraid of them or anything. That dickhole MS guy probably thought he'd retell the story with a little embellishment ...

[djgamble]

Riiiight. If you seriously think this you need to take a step back 'cause you are seriously approaching Apple fan-boy territory

What's wrong with being a fan-boy? I'm a proud Apple fan-boy!

That said... I don't care about M$' ads. Ironically the whole reason they were made is because the "I'm a Mac" ads have worked so well.

The only reason I can see Apple would have called is if M$ is quoting Apple's prices, and they're since changed. Then that's legit because M$ is giving the wrong prices (even if it's only $100 different... although I believe it's a lot more.)

[bruinsrme]

No. There are SOME PC laptops (albeit a large SUM - see what I did there?) that are cheaper than Mac laptops. There are also some that are as much or more. The commercials are saying you can get "checklist of features x/y/z for less than the Mac", which is true. Anyone who knows Apple knows their products aren't about having feature x/y/z.

BUT, if Apple really did ask MS to stop airing the ads, that's just really stupid.

Yes I did see what you did there :D

I agree with your statements. My son's XPS1730 all pimped out was significantly more than a 17" MBP.

One of the things on the PC side is you can get a 17" notebook for $700 or $4000. Mac line is limited, selection of hardware is limited. PC large selection of brands and hardware line up. I am not going to foll myself and say that the person looking at a $700 notebook is going to know the real difference between Intel integrated graphics card or an NVidia 9600 GTX.
But for that person the $700 17" is right up their alley. It will do video editing, movies and whatever else but most likely not as well as a more expensive machine.

[Willis]

What I don't understand is why Microsoft are trying to sell computers for manufactures when they don't even make them. Sure, they get a license fee but surely they get that in advance anyway.

So Microsoft's whole point behind these ads are moot anyway.

[iEdd]

Um, hurray for unsubstantiated, perhaps exaggerated claims made by some M$ guy in an attempt to make Apple look hypocritical?

Let's have something more credible please.

[morrisman1]

The adverts are misleading, they compare a chinese rolex to a real one. One advert also shows the price of a MBP and refers it to a normal MB.

MS ignored that the mac was often more suitable for the person, I remember one advert wanted a laptop which had good battery life and was compact so they got an hp DV5 i think it was. It offers neither of those two characteristics!

The adverts have manipulated the facts to a huge degree in order to promote windows, in a fair advert i think half those adverts would end up recommending mac.

[beez1717]

apple has every right to go and talk to microsoft, and tell them that the prices that they are telling people that their computers is is wrong. I know that apple lowered their prices by 100 dollars, and I think that that shows a A WIN for apple because it shows that they are confident that they can get a better price for their products and get more technology squeezed into them :)

[jmingin]

The one that bugs me the most is that stupid graphic designer. First of all, she has no design style if she really bought that computer. I would love to interview her just not to hire her.

[macfan881]

Comments on Engadget are having a field day with it.

engadet is starting to P*SS me off its starting to really be a PC Fanboy zone 90 percent of apple fans make a solid point about apple is low ranked

anywhoo I can see where apple is asking them to stop. I mean if you were offered X amount of money to a PC would you go ahead and grab one yeah i problay would im sure bout 90 percent would probaly to the only people who wouldnt are die hard Apple fans who hate pcs with a passion .another point is you could clearly see severall of the people really wanted to buy a mac but since its a MS commercial you know how its gonna turn out. Heck if i was them i would go ahead and return the pc the next day and get a mac :)

[pdjudd]

I work for a major media company. A letter would be sent, not a phone call. It's what's called "ceast and desist" and it comes in the form of a letter first, not a phone call.

Exactly. Apple can have a letter or a legal document be certified by a delivery person or a legal cleric as delivering said C&D. That way, if it is ignored, a lawsuit can ensue. Phone calls are tougher because it's a he-said-she said matter if person X was actually spoken to or if any conversation took place.

Apple is well experienced with the C&D knows that they get sent directly by certified mail. A phone call would be used for a friendly request/officially complain and not a legal threat.

Something fishy here....

[bruinsrme]

The adverts are misleading, they compare a chinese rolex to a real one. One advert also shows the price of a MBP and refers it to a normal MB.

MS ignored that the mac was often more suitable for the person, I remember one advert wanted a laptop which had good battery life and was compact so they got an hp DV5 i think it was. It offers neither of those two characteristics!

The adverts have manipulated the facts to a huge degree in order to promote windows, in a fair advert i think half those adverts would end up recommending mac.

yeah we wouldn't want to confuse the chinese built PCs with the chinese built macs ;)

[pika2000]

I work for a major media company. A letter would be sent, not a phone call. It's what's called "ceast and desist" and it comes in the form of a letter first, not a phone call.

Exactly, that was what I thought too. So this is just a publicity stunt, pretty poor one too. Microsoft, you can do better than this. What's next, a fake phone call from the EU begging MS to put IE back? :rolleyes:

Like I said, sending Ballmer jumping around would be much better for MS. :D Or maybe, just maybe, cut the prices of Windows 7 retail, but oh that would be too easy huh. :rolleyes:

[quagmire]

I am sure Apple did call MS to stop airing ads that stated the old prices for their laptops as those prices are not true anymore( starting prices which the ads were advertising at least and would stray to false advertising unless MS put a disclaimer on the ads in question stating prices have changed, etc). I am sure Apple didn't request MS to cease airing the laptop hunter ad entirely.

If they did, OMG this would be hilarious. " Apple tries to stop competition putting down Macs while they put down the competition."

[dscuber9000]

I think Microsoft should stop the ads, because as a console gamer, THEY BASH THEIR OWN GAMES DIVISION JUST AS MUCH AS THEY BASH APPLE IN THEM. They talk about how great Blu-Ray is, and how much more powerful PCs are, when in my opinion, Sony could run ads with the exact same content to promote PS3s over Xbox 360s.

Amazing how I use Mac for computer use and Xbox 360 for gaming. It's like Microsoft is trying to lose me as a customer...

[Eddyisgreat]

Pricing has always been Apple's achilles heal. It's about time Microsoft banged a few goals inside the open net. The ads are not even unfair. They don't deny the fact Apple machines are beautiful, cool and fashionable. They just emphasize the point if you're shopping on a budget you're likely to leave the Apple store disappointed and without any kind of computer. :)

Apple is vulnerable to attack for the first time in awhile. The bad economy weighing on purchasing decisions, and the fact Windows 7 is such a fantastic piece of work. I'm amazed how they have turned the Vista disaster around so quickly. Microsoft has every reason to be confident and to go after Apple in a variety of different ways.

Healthy competition is good for all of us who are not APPL shareholders. :)

I'm a MSFT shareholder ( selling all my shares within the month and staying liquid for a while :) ) but i've been grinding my teeth at the junk willy wonka, i mean Steve Ballmer has been peddiling so far ever since Bill left.

I don't know the legalities around false advertising, but its one thing to twist the truth and another to tell an outright lie, and with the price changes all of the commercials are moot in their legitimacy. You can't air commercials comparing todays products to yesterdays prices. They might as well have a Macintosh Classic (The 2MB Ram /40MB HD version retailed for $1499 in the 90's) and say that some crappy HP celeron machine that cost 299 bucks on black friday is a "bajillion" times faster than a comparable mac machine at a fraction of the cost.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the "Get a Mac" ads are any better. They aren't. But atleast their logic stands behind popular opinion and unrefutable user experiences; something that can change from user to user (as some people here claim they have had the ultimate vista experience while others say their boxes crash regularly). Comparing solely on price as MSFT is doing may be a great strategy but then you are dancing with facts that must be adhered to.

[LagunaSol]

Me, I'd love to know how this telephone call really went down...

[upinflames900]

I think Microsoft should stop the ads, because as a console gamer, THEY BASH THEIR OWN GAMES DIVISION JUST AS MUCH AS THEY BASH APPLE IN THEM. They talk about how great Blu-Ray is, and how much more powerful PCs are, when in my opinion, Sony could run ads with the exact same content to promote PS3s over Xbox 360s.

Amazing how I use Mac for computer use and Xbox 360 for gaming. It's like Microsoft is trying to lose me as a customer...

Funny actually isn't it. I still am stuck on how they are advocating for HP, Dell, etc because they don't make a single computer.

[quagmire]

I think Microsoft should stop the ads, because as a console gamer, THEY BASH THEIR OWN GAMES DIVISION JUST AS MUCH AS THEY BASH APPLE IN THEM. They talk about how great Blu-Ray is, and how much more powerful PCs are, when in my opinion, Sony could run ads with the exact same content to promote PS3s over Xbox 360s.

Amazing how I use Mac for computer use and Xbox 360 for gaming. It's like Microsoft is trying to lose me as a customer...

Uh what? The HD DVD vs Blu-Ray war is over and MS conceded defeat. So I don't see how hyping Blu-Ray would hurt the 360 sales......

How are they bashing the 360? It wasn't a PC vs gaming console ad, it is a PC vs Mac ad where PC games are more prevalent then Mac games.

[Bravo]

Like so many things in life, the more I think about this, the less I believe it.

[organicpixels]

For some reason, some thing in me doesn't buy the story from MS.

[LagunaSol]

engadet is starting to P*SS me off its starting to really be a PC Fanboy zone 90 percent of apple fans make a solid point about apple is low ranked

Engadget commentary completely went down the crapper a year ago. There is no discussion there - there is only low-ranking of pro-Apple comments and high-ranking of anti-Apple rants and Microsoft slobberings.

"ZUNE HD??? MUST HAVE!!!!!" (Highest Ranked)

"iPod? Get off your knees and quit schlobbing Jobs' knob!" (Highly Ranked)

"I just dumped my WinMo device and bought an iPhone and frankly I think it's the best device on the market right now." (Lowest Ranked)

It's a complete Redmond love fest. I particularly like the comments that say stuff like "I can't wait to get rid of my crappy iPhone" when it's clear from that commenter's dialog over the past many months that he doesn't own an iPhone and would never dream of doing so. Etc. etc.

The smell of astroturf is thick over there.

Yet everyone gripes about Apple fanboys. Sheesh.

[PaperMacWriter]

I think MS should have to take some down, like ones where they say "a 15" mac starts a 2000 and has 2GB of RAM", which is now a lie. Lieing in ads isn't good. But when all is still true(sorta), MS has every right to keep them up. Just what I think. If it makes matters different, I would fall under "fanboy" and hate the ads.

SG :apple:

[aquaibm]

HAHA,this is the funnest thing I have heard this year,maybe. :)

[aurichie]

I'm a MSFT shareholder ( selling all my shares within the month and staying liquid for a while :) ) but i've been grinding my teeth at the junk willy wonka, i mean Steve Ballmer has been peddiling so far ever since Bill left.


Personally I'd hold on to them for awhile based on how well Windows 7 is selling across the world. And Office 2010 is right around the corner too.

Remember Bill Gates oversaw Vista and we all know how that mess turned out. Windows 7 has been in development since he left. It looks like Microsoft might be able to deliver better products without his day-to-day involvement.


I don't know the legalities around false advertising, but its one thing to twist the truth and another to tell an outright lie, and with the price changes all of the commercials are moot in their legitimacy. You can't air commercials comparing todays products to yesterdays prices. They might as well have a Macintosh Classic (The 2MB Ram /40MB HD version retailed for $1499 in the 90's) and say that some crappy HP celeron machine that cost 299 bucks on black friday is a "bajillion" times faster than a comparable mac machine.

Get real it happens all the time. It's hardly false advertising to run ads that might mention prices from a few weeks ago. And the $100 price reduction (on some product lines) still doesn't really alter the basis of the arguments Microsoft makes in its commercials. They are not twisting the truth when they say the HP/Dell/Lenovo machines are substantially cheaper than the MacBook alternatives.

I love my new 17" MacBook Pro (bought with the reductions + student discount) but I know I could have saved a lot of money if I had gone with a Windows laptop instead.

[Toadtilley]

I am so tired of reading, even on this forum, about the supposed "apple tax." Since Apple transitioned to Intel the price of an identically spec'd machine is so competitive as to be a laughable discussion. And we are talking guts only not build quality which is always in Apple's favor--I know I build computers. If you are looking for cheap Apple is not going to have what you are looking for, but they are not overpriced (KNOW THE FRIGGIN' DIFFERENCE).

The reality is that most people still look at the amount of RAM and the GHz to compare computers and they have no idea about differences in RAM type, HD differences, processor differences, etc.,.

MORE importantly, forget the hardware, try pricing out Windows Sharepoint and Exchange for 100 users versus OS X Server and Kerio.

[LagunaSol]

So I don't see how hyping Blu-Ray would hurt the 360 sales......

Um, because the PS3 comes with Blu-Ray and the 360 doesn't???

Seems pretty commonsensical to me...

[upinflames900]

This could be really bad looking for apple if they don't clarify this quickly. I mean here they are trying to do a similar type of ads and then complaining it is not fair when MS does it. Apple could be in the right, but it won't look like it.

[briantology]

I agree that MS put a spin on the story. This also means I don't know what exactly Apple said, but it doesn't seem to be in their nature to ask MS to stop airing whatever commercials they come out with. Apple should just use the talent and creativity they have to come out with better ads. You can't win a war by asking for a truce, you simply must use better tactics.

[wesrk]

have apple do a witty ad about the costs of sending your pc to be repaired a few times a year, plus losing all your data, plus having the latest virus around, show the way a pc crawls after a few weeks/months use, etc., just show that.

[aurichie]

Engadget commentary completely went down the crapper a year ago. There is no discussion there - there is only low-ranking of pro-Apple comments and high-ranking of anti-Apple rants and Microsoft slobberings.

"ZUNE HD??? MUST HAVE!!!!!" (Highest Ranked)

"iPod? Get off your knees and quit schlobbing Jobs' knob!" (Highly Ranked)

"I just dumped my WinMo device and bought an iPhone and frankly I think it's the best device on the market right now." (Lowest Ranked)


Even Leo Laporte (one of the most respected tech personalities) who is self-professed Apple "fan boi" loves Windows 7, thinks the Zune is a cool device, and has been impressed with the Zune Pass experience.

I think some of you just need to accept Microsoft has somehow started to do a good job again. :)

[KurtangleTN]

Pricing has always been Apple's achilles heal. It's about time Microsoft banged a few goals inside the open net. The ads are not even unfair. They don't deny the fact Apple machines are beautiful, cool and fashionable. They just emphasize the point if you're shopping on a budget you're likely to leave the Apple store disappointed and without any kind of computer. :)

Apple is vulnerable to attack for the first time in awhile. The bad economy weighing on purchasing decisions, and the fact Windows 7 is such a fantastic piece of work. I'm amazed how they have turned the Vista disaster around so quickly. Microsoft has every reason to be confident and to go after Apple in a variety of different ways.

Healthy competition is good for all of us who are not APPL shareholders. :)

Great post and exactly.

I love the ads to be honest and I do think they are effective, it just further continues the notion that Macs are too pricey and don't offer enough choice, and it doesn't take long to see that.

[Shookster]

To be fair, Apple isn't entirely out of the misleading or stretching the realm of perception either. Remember that disclaimer commercial where like half of the 23 steps listed were talking about running defrag. Pretty sure I find myself running Disk Utility on my new iMac pretty often to clear up quite a few things. That, of course, would be the Mac version of a defrag. There are other examples, but I'm not going to get in to it. That's just the first one that comes to mind that stood out the most for me.

Why do you have to run Disk Utility often? I run a permissions repair only when I'm experiencing an issue that could be related to permissions - so maybe once or twice a year. I run a disk scan if I'm experiencing a problem I suspect may be caused by damage to the file structure on the disk (although these tests have always come out clean for me). Occasionally I'll clean out some caches too but this is rare also.

If you have 10.4+, the daily/weekly/monthly tasks are handled for you. There are literally no tasks you need to run manually on a regular basis on the Mac.

[upinflames900]

]I think some of you just need to accept Microsoft has somehow started to do a good job again. :)

When did they start doing a good job? :rolleyes:

[LEStudios]

When did they start doing a good job? :rolleyes:

Microsoft couldn't do a good job even on their day off! :D

[LagunaSol]

have apple do a witty ad about the costs of sending your pc to be repaired a few times a year, plus losing all your data, plus having the latest virus around, show the way a pc crawls after a few weeks/months use, etc., just show that.

The difference between the Apple ads and the MS ads is that Apple is telling people what they already know (Windows is a major PITA) and offering them an alternative.

Microsoft is telling people what they already know (Windows computers are cheaper) yet somehow treat this as a revelation.

Basically, the statement is "Pssst, you already know that Windows is a PITA, but hey, it's cheaper! And frankly, you don't deserve better."

In my opinion, these ads are ultimately damaging to Microsoft's brand, not Apple's. Of course they don't realize this yet...

I still love the one about the "filmmaker" who can't spend more than $1,000 on her editing machine the best. LOL!

[lazyrighteye]

Yeah right...

[RiverFox]

i call ********.

(1.) There was a poster in this thread (forgot your name fella), that states, if this was a legal matter, it would have been done through the mail, not by telephone.

(2.) MSFT doesn't make computers. So the whole concept of these commercials are pretty lame if you ask me.

(3.) Pound for pound an Apple and a PC would cost the same given the same hardware.

What it comes down to (IMHO) is the nameplate of the machine. You buy a Dell - you're gonna pay Dells' price. You want an Apple, the same rule applies. Different people like different manufactures and how they "feel" and "run". Look at how many automobile types there are... Not everyone drives a Model 'T' anymore...

[upinflames900]

The difference between the Apple ads and the MS ads is that Apple is telling people what they already know (Windows is a major PITA) and offering them an alternative.

Microsoft is telling people what they already know (Windows computers are cheaper) yet somehow treat this as a revelation.

Basically, the statement is "Pssst, you already know that Windows is a PITA, but hey, it's cheaper! And frankly, you don't deserve better."

In my opinion, these ads are ultimately damaging to Microsoft's brand, not Apple's. Of course they don't realize this yet...

I still love the one about the "filmmaker" who can't spend more than $1,000 on her editing machine the best. LOL!

The question is do people see it this way or do they just see cheeper and lets go shopping? I see your point though...very true.

[LagunaSol]

I think some of you just need to accept Microsoft has somehow started to do a good job again. :)

I'm not sure what that has to do with the anti-Apple rage that dominates the Engadget comments board...

[quagmire]

Um, because the PS3 comes with Blu-Ray and the 360 doesn't???

Seems pretty commonsensical to me...

Again, this is a PC vs Mac ad. Not a PS3 vs 360 ad. Stating a PC has Blu-Ray where a Mac doesn't won't hurt 360 sales as well.......

[aurichie]

When did they start doing a good job? :rolleyes:

Well IMO Windows 2000 and Windows XP were both great operating systems. Office has been the top productivity suite for more than a decade. I know die-hard Apple fans who love Outlook so much they run Windows in a virtual machine just so they can use it. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing Exchange support in Snow Leopard. Maybe that can persuade a few more people they don't need VMware Fusion to run a decent email client in OS X. :)

[ikramerica]

It's amazing how uniformed MS is about Apple products, and how uninformed so many people are about WHY MS ads are false and different than the "mac v. pc" ads.

Ease of use, "better" claims, things like that are subjective. But price is OBJECTIVE. MS, when they created their ads, was not lying about price. But they continued to run the ads after Apple lowered their prices and upgraded their products, and by doing so, MS was acting in bad faith. They were falsely advertising, an actionable civil crime in every state in the USA. They can be fined. By refusing Apple's request to pull or alter the specific ads that make false claims, MS may have dug themselves a hole.

The main ad in question is the filmmaker who claims that there is "only one model under $2000, and it has 2GB of RAM." That is a FALSE claim, and MS continued to run that ad for weeks after knowing it was false, including during the NBA finals. That's blatant.

As for prices being cut "$100 or something" that's just an MS tool not knowing his competition. Prices were cut by far more, and features were added, including the oh so important 4GB of RAM.

That makes MS's advertising objectively false, not subjectively false. That's the difference, and that MS ignored this request means they are very likely liable for their actions. Each and every time this ad ran after being notified of the claim, they could be fined by every state it ran in, as well as be required to pay Apple damages.

That the MS tool is bragging about breaking the law is hilarious. He should be proud...

[briantology]

I still love the one about the "filmmaker" who can't spend more than $1,000 on her editing machine the best. LOL!
Never saw that one lolz, you'll probably be spending more than that on software!

[MacLover4491]

i never had to do disk defragment on my windows laptops.

[LagunaSol]

The question is do people see it this way or do they just see cheeper and lets go shopping?

Based on Apple's success over the past few years, apparently people see the cheap PC that's sitting on their desk, think about the complete hell it's given them for the past 3 years, and decide that "cheaper" may not be the best strategy anymore...

[8CoreWhore]

Apple's point is - the ads show specific prices for specific models at Fry's. Those models and prices have since changed and MS is engaging in deceptive advertising. MS has a responsibility to be accurate. That said, no doubt the telephone call is being misrepresented.

[upinflames900]

Well IMO Windows 2000 and Windows XP were both great operating systems. Office has been the top productivity suite for more than a decade. I know die-hard Apple fans who love Outlook so much they run Windows in a virtual machine just so they can use it. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing Exchange support in Snow Leopard. Maybe that can persuade a few more people they don't need VMware Fusion to run a decent email client in OS X. :)

XP was decent after a long string of updates...and up until recently there hasn't been a competitor in the office suite market. BTW it was more of a joke than anything.

[nüb]

Very bizarre story. Sounds like BS to me. Maybe someone called with a very specific complaint about a particular claim? Even that sounds iffy.

And that's the reason he knows they are effective? Because Apple legal called? They don't have metrics that tell them whether this ad money was well spent? If there is truth to this at all this is something small that was blown out of proportion.

Yeah. Iffy at best. I think the ads are misleading, as she basically bought a paper weight that will require replacement in a year or two. I think the educated consumer will buy a Mac over a PC at this point.

On a side note, Apple has ALWAYS been about creatives and creative professionals. I've been using them for 20 years (granted I grew up with one). I've watched it take years to make Macs "cool" and now they are more popular than ever. I love them as an artistic (and professional) extension of my person. Personally, I don't really care if someone wants to go and get a soulless piece of junk. For me, I care about appearance of fonts, windows, icons, GUI, seamless accessory (MIDI, audio, etc) integration...the list goes on. I have friends with PC's and don't have the time to put up with what they do. I surprised they do.

[upinflames900]

Based on Apple's success over the past few years, apparently people see the cheap PC that's sitting on their desk, think about the complete hell it's given them for the past 3 years, and decide that "cheaper" may not be the best strategy anymore...

Good point... I didn't think that way I guess because I have a mac lol...

[ikramerica]

Why do you have to run Disk Utility often?

If you have 10.4+, the daily/weekly/monthly tasks are handled for you. There are literally no tasks you need to run manually on a regular basis on the Mac.

Because people are still thinking that what they did in 10.2 is something they need to do in 10.5?

Repair permissions is not needed. You can do it if you want, but it's not required.

The only routine task I have to perform on a Mac is to tell time machine to use the right disk, as it seems to forget quite a bit. But that's it.

[LagunaSol]

Again, this is a PC vs Mac ad. Not a PS3 vs 360 ad. Stating a PC has Blu-Ray where a Mac doesn't won't hurt 360 sales as well.......

But you're telling people that "Blu-Ray is a big plus." So when they're looking at gaming consoles, they naturally think "Blu-Ray is a big plus." How could they not believe it? Microsoft said it!

And there they see a PS3 with Blu-Ray and an Xbox 360 without. Hmm, what to do, what to do...

[LEStudios]

Great post and exactly.

I love the ads to be honest and I do think they are effective, it just further continues the notion that Macs are too pricey and don't offer enough choice, and it doesn't take long to see that.

I can't believe people on this website is defending Microsoft? What are guys retarded or what? This is Microsoft who knowingly sold Xbox 360s and knew that it was prone to RROD, this also the same company responsible for screwing up people computers with Windows Vista and my opinion leaving holes in the OS that retains a Virus so Security companies can make Billions off of selling people like you Virus Protection Software. You actually wasting your time of giving them credit? I'm pretty sure Steve Ballmers is going to give you a great reward maybe you get the Zune HD 10% off. :rolleyes:

[aurichie]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the anti-Apple rage that dominates the Engadget comments board...

I don't believe Engadget is dominated by anti-apple sentiment at all. There's just a lot more positive energy towards Microsoft all of a sudden because they are now producing products people want to use on a variety of cool partner devices.

[yellowmuffins]

I don't see why this is all such a big deal. Yeah Macs are more expensive than PCs... you get what you pay for. It's like trying to compare a BMW with a Ford, you could advertise all day about how much cheaper and better (in the terms of mpg/storage capacity) the Ford is, but at the end of the day anyone with half a brain knows that if you have the cash you get the bimmer.

[aurichie]

XP was decent after a long string of updates...and up until recently there hasn't been a competitor in the office suite market. BTW it was more of a joke than anything.

i know but I had to bite :)

[upinflames900]

i know but I had to bite :)

Okay no problem lol

[pmoeser]

There is no way Apple legal would have phoned MSFT to pull an ad.

This is yet another nonsensical comment (bordering on a lie) from a MSFT exec.

If (and it is a big if) Apple wanted to do something they felt they had a legal basis for, they would have written to them.

[bruinsrme]

I don't see why this is all such a big deal. Yeah Macs are more expensive than PCs... you get what you pay for. It's like trying to compare a BMW with a Ford, you could advertise all day about how much cheaper and better (in the terms of mpg/storage capacity) the Ford is, but at the end of the day anyone with half a brain knows that if you have the cash you get the bimmer.

But the BMW doesn't come with the same engine and supporting components as the ford.

[fraggot]

This whole discussion is just retarded in so many ways. Most of the laptops out there are no different then any others, except for some basic hardware. Which a PC laptop and a Mac laptop can share the same.

The ONLY difference is the operating system, people may not buy a mac simply cause they don't like the operating system and vice versa.

The way they're portrayed in the commercials are simply for the ignorant consumers out there. Anyone with a brain in their head will look at what the laptop can actually do and do it well. Some things a PC can do better and some things a Mac can do better. It's a battle that'll never end until one buys out the other.

[zFrenchy]

i like Pc hunter adds...... it made apple lower their laptops.
Its a win win for me

[LagunaSol]

I can't believe people on this website is defending Microsoft?

Because defending Microsoft, as slimy as they may be, "proves" that you're not an Apple sheep or fanatic or cultist or something??? :rolleyes:

I don't worship Apple and there are plenty of things they do that bug me (no dock bundled with my iPhone? WTF???), but Microsoft are among the biggest weasels the business world has ever known (ask any court in the civilized world) and they deserve to be scorned and avoided. I do not purchase their products and I look at anything they do or say with suspicion. Because that's what they've earned through their own actions.

To some people that makes me a nutjob. Whatever.

[upinflames900]

There is no way Apple legal would have phoned MSFT to pull an ad.

This is yet another nonsensical comment (bordering on a lie) from a MSFT exec.

If (and it is a big if) Apple wanted to do something they felt they had a legal basis for, they would have written to them.

Yea I also question this as a true story...why would they call?

[Codemonkey]

Apple Fanboys are so 2003. I guess if we were to take a cue out of say, American culture, prejudice takes many, many years to purge from society. More years than we know.

I wonder how long it will take for Apple users to accept and tolerate that there is more than one solution for people's computing needs.

Pick the right tool for the job, get over yourself and ****. I use Windows 2000, Windows XP Pro, Windows Vista Business and OS X every day, successfully, for different reasons. They all have their place. All my builds are done right, all are as stable as they can be - enough with the anecdotal unsubstantiated remarks and the double-standard trust in advertising. It's old and very transparent.

My passion is Apple. Chances are I will extoll the virtues if asked, and lead by example the rest of the time. Going on the defensive every time the competition might actually challenge you shows everyone around you just how weak a foundation you stand on.

[LagunaSol]

The ONLY difference is the operating system

Set a MacBook Pro down on the table next to an HP laptop and tell me the only difference is the operating system. :rolleyes:

[Bevz]

Oh bugger, I guess this means we'll be seeing more of those really annoying
adverts.... Well done apple! (assuming Microsoft didn't just make it all up of course) :(

[jav6454]

how do you know if this is even true? That same executive in that same speech also said the Laptop Hunter ads were completely unscripted. This has been proven to be a complete lie.

What are you talking about. I am not questioning whether they are scripted or not. I could care less of that.

[jbernie]

First of all, will a legal department from big companies call you? Highly unlikely. Most of them will contact you via fax/letter. So I smell publicity stunts. MS, could you just put Ballmer jumping around again? That is more entertaining.

A letter is probably the correct form of communication... but do you really think Apple wants Microsoft to have a letter from them asking for the ads to be stopped? That would be the wallpaper on every MS office in the world over a few days. Great motivational poster :)

Apple's problem is simply any Microsoft add can make them look expensive as their prices start at US$600 for the mini and no other model starts below $999. There is lots of fudge room for someone to get a PC for less than a Mac, it is pretty much a given unless they are shopping only at Sony.

Microsoft is focusing on cost, not which product is better, right now lower cost is a pretty good selling point at the moment.

[jav6454]

It's amazing how uniformed MS is about Apple products, and how uninformed so many people are about WHY MS ads are false and different than the "mac v. pc" ads.

Ease of use, "better" claims, things like that are subjective. But price is OBJECTIVE. MS, when they created their ads, was not lying about price. But they continued to run the ads after Apple lowered their prices and upgraded their products, and by doing so, MS was acting in bad faith. They were falsely advertising, an actionable civil crime in every state in the USA. They can be fined. By refusing Apple's request to pull or alter the specific ads that make false claims, MS may have dug themselves a hole.

The main ad in question is the filmmaker who claims that there is "only one model under $2000, and it has 2GB of RAM." That is a FALSE claim, and MS continued to run that ad for weeks after knowing it was false, including during the NBA finals. That's blatant.

As for prices being cut "$100 or something" that's just an MS tool not knowing his competition. Prices were cut by far more, and features were added, including the oh so important 4GB of RAM.

That makes MS's advertising objectively false, not subjectively false. That's the difference, and that MS ignored this request means they are very likely liable for their actions. Each and every time this ad ran after being notified of the claim, they could be fined by every state it ran in, as well as be required to pay Apple damages.

That the MS tool is bragging about breaking the law is hilarious. He should be proud...

I love that statement so much.

Yes, I agree, running an ad saying your rival has this when it is clearly not the case is blatant false advertising and there are penalties for that. It has surprised me that Apple hasn't done anything yet, considering they have their lawyers on Speed Dial

[billystlyes]

Set a MacBook Pro down on the table next to an HP laptop and tell me the only difference is the operating system. :rolleyes:
No, but the screen on the MacBook Pro will have so much glare that you'll wish it had the screen on the HP. :D

Sorry, but Apple is coming off like the little spoiled brat that picks on the bully and then goes crying back to mommy when they hit back.

Oh well, as long as they keep lower prices and come back with matte displays I'll be happy.

[dscuber9000]

Uh what? The HD DVD vs Blu-Ray war is over and MS conceded defeat. So I don't see how hyping Blu-Ray would hurt the 360 sales......

How are they bashing the 360? It wasn't a PC vs gaming console ad, it is a PC vs Mac ad where PC games are more prevalent then Mac games.

The last three years, we've heard nothing from Sony but how awesome Blu-Ray is making the PS3, and how behind the 360 and Wii are for using DVD. Microsoft used to blow off Blu-Ray, even calling it an expensive luxury.

These laptop hunter ads show people drooling over Blu-Ray, which as a hard-core gamer, I found strange for Microsoft to show. It seems like the two divisions are on two different pages.

[Macminiintel]

for a start who would believe anything Micro$oft say, the entire company is built on lie upon lie. I mean they even say about I.E 8, "Make your web even better", erm more like worser. Safari and firefox the best browsers on the planet.

The next lie they say is "windows vista, most secure windows ever". LOL yeah right more like the least secure, its about the same as xp with very little difference.

Then there are the laptop hunter ads, who on earth would be stupid enough to believe anything they say in it. I mean they even insult there own users in one of the ads and saying "I'm just not cool enough to be a mac person". This to me seems like a last attempt from Microsoft, because they know they can't beat Apple on quality, design and ease of use. All the MS ads say to me is "yes Macs are better, but we are cheaper". Just like the VHS V Betamax war in the 80s, Betamax was the much superior product, but everyone went with VHS, for its cheapness.

The adverts they made are a joke, I highly doubt they would work, at the end of the day when you buy a Mac it runs OS X, when you buy a PC it runs windows thats why its cheaper, because of all the viruses, trojans, slow downs etc, etc

[LethalWolfe]

Okay I am not an apple fan boy, but thanks for the insult. My point is I see the ads as misleading. If you don't then just say so and state why you dont have to pick a fight with me. I am simply expressing my opinion thats all no more. I understand advertising, but I just feel that it is a little (perhaps not illegally so) misleading thats all. If you disagree fine.
I didn't call you a fan boy. I said you are approaching fan boy territory if you get all up in arms about MS for their 'misleading ads' and you don't get equally up in arms about other company's misleading ads (including Apple's).

To put it simply. If you dislike misleading ads in general you probably aren't a fan boy. If you dislike only misleading ads that paint Apple in a poor light you are probably a fan boy.

Of course, all ads are inherently misleading to some degree. I mean, do companies spend equal time advertising both the positive and negative aspects of their products? Of course not. The purpose of advertising is to make people want what you are selling not to drive them away.


Lethal

[nüb]

I don't see why this is all such a big deal. Yeah Macs are more expensive than PCs... you get what you pay for. It's like trying to compare a BMW with a Ford, you could advertise all day about how much cheaper and better (in the terms of mpg/storage capacity) the Ford is, but at the end of the day anyone with half a brain knows that if you have the cash you get the bimmer.

You know what's funny about this??

http://adage.com/digital/article?article_id=136731

The chick (and her heavy mom?) are standing in front of a bimmer.

[pika2000]

A letter is probably the correct form of communication... but do you really think Apple wants Microsoft to have a letter from them asking for the ads to be stopped? That would be the wallpaper on every MS office in the world over a few days. Great motivational poster :)

Apple lawyers has no problems sending C&D letters to people.Whether it would be made a wallpaper or not, that's irrelevant. Businesses' lawyers would not just make a personal call for something like this.

[zeromeus]

You guys are missing the point -- the recent commercials were quoting specs/prices/whatever about Macs *before* the latest refresh. They were misrepresenting the current line of Macbooks.

Some friends and I had seen the commercial recently and thought the same thing -- "Microsoft is talking about OLD Apple Macbooks?! Not cool!"

OF COURSE Microsoft's ads would be about OLD Apple Macbooks! People don't just create ads on the spot and air them the same day. They have to be recorded, edited, and a whole lot of streamlining. So of course these ads would include old macs as they were made BEFORE the mac refreshed. Therefore, at the time the ad was videotaped, those prices and models were current. Yes, Microsoft aired them late, but why waste money redoing something just because your competitor decides to change a little....

I'm a dual OS user with many different desktops and laptops, so I don't feel that I should need to defend anyone or any company as I always go with the product that I feel suits my needs better. For example: With what I do, the PC serves me MUCH better when I need to get things done. However, for ease of use, I use a mac. I'm planning to install windows 7 on all my macs once they come out. Too bad I can't legally install OSX on my PCs as they are much more powerful than my iMac and MacBook.

[bretm]

Good point... I didn't think that way I guess because I have a mac lol...

Yeah, but I watch youtube videos of osx running on $250 acer netbooks and I just drool.

[LagunaSol]

No, but the screen on the MacBook Pro will have so much glare that you'll wish it had the screen on the HP.

I have an HP laptop to my left and a glossy-screened iMac in front of me. I'd choose the iMac. :)

[jav6454]

OF COURSE Microsoft's ads would be about OLD Apple Macbooks! People don't just create ads on the spot and air them the same day. They have to be recorded, edited, and a whole lot of streamlining. So of course these ads would include old macs as they were made BEFORE the mac refreshed. Therefore, at the time the ad was videotaped, those prices and models were current. Yes, Microsoft aired them late, but why waste money redoing something just because your competitor decides to change a little....

I'm a dual OS user with many different desktops and laptops, so I don't feel that I should need to defend anyone or any company as I always go with the product that I feel suits my needs better. For example: With what I do, the PC serves me MUCH better when I need to get things done. However, for ease of use, I use a mac. I'm planning to install windows 7 on all my macs once they come out. Too bad I can't legally install OSX on my PCs as they are much more powerful than my iMac and MacBook.

Because then its false advertising and there are laws against that. If you want to compete in this world, you gotta stay current. If you can't make a TV ad and air it to counter your rival on time, then you should really re-examine what the hell are you doing. Specially someone like MS who can spend $300 Million off the bat.

[ikir]

MS ads are misleading but sure they can do what they want until they keep telling the right prices. Then a person with a brain know that laptop in these ads are lacking a lot o thing. I see a chart comparing a Mac and a Pc, under HDMI PC had "Yes" and Mac "None".... and what about MiniDisplay Port? LOL

[LagunaSol]

Yes, Microsoft aired them late, but why waste money redoing something just because your competitor decides to change a little....

Because you are obligated to be accurate at the time of airing?

[bretm]

Yeah, but I watch youtube videos of osx running on $250 acer netbooks and I just drool.

And further along those lines... isn't it kind of ironic that Apple touts that it's the user friendly consumer computer and Windows is always thought of as a good business computer. BUT Apple's designs are high end, industrial and nearly too expensive for the general public, yet windows business machines cost a fraction of apple's machines. And to top it off, Apple, the consumer computer company continually refuses to make a cheap "junk" computer. It really doesn't make sense. They want to be the "hub" yet they price themselves out of that market.

[NAG]

Since when is a netbook a hub?

[themcbrooms]

This whole discussion is just retarded in so many ways. Most of the laptops out there are no different then any others, except for some basic hardware. Which a PC laptop and a Mac laptop can share the same.

The ONLY difference is the operating system, people may not buy a mac simply cause they don't like the operating system and vice versa.

The way they're portrayed in the commercials are simply for the ignorant consumers out there. Anyone with a brain in their head will look at what the laptop can actually do and do it well. Some things a PC can do better and some things a Mac can do better. It's a battle that'll never end until one buys out the other.

See, I cant believe not one person so far has mentioned the Mac uni-body, the 8 hour battery, the standard LED back lit screens, the standard DDR3 ram, Glass track pad with multi-touch...etc. These are just a FEW of the things you can't get with the 700.00 plastic walmart PC. The Mac price is justified, and the old adage is still true, "you get what you pay for". Please STOP regurgitating that "Macs are more", and "The hardware is the same expect for the OS". While the OS is enough of a reason to "pay more", it's not the only thing that makes a Mac more than worth the price! As someone said earlier, pound for pound there is NO price difference. Anyone with logic and a calculator can figure this out. It is the the vitriol of the MS fan boys (who don't even know enough about Apple or a Mac to begin with) that and end up stating, "Macs are overpriced", "Apple Tax", etc. The 90's talking points are getting old as well.

[agendum]

Did I get it wrong or did every person choose a HP laptop?

Maybe HP is the best in class outside a Mac or maybe they are the cheapest competitor, but it doesn't do anything for the contention that there are option"s" other than Mac.

Really, what happened was that Microsoft co-opted HP into the campaign and HP's stipulation was that the consumers could choose any laptop, as long as it was an HP.

[brianbobcat]

You guys are missing the point -- the recent commercials were quoting specs/prices/whatever about Macs *before* the latest refresh. They were misrepresenting the current line of Macbooks.

Some friends and I had seen the commercial recently and thought the same thing -- "Microsoft is talking about OLD Apple Macbooks?! Not cool!"

Didn't Apple up the RAM and drop the price thi slast refresh. I don't think anyone here would say a Mac is cheaper than a PC, at least the initial costs, but yes compare specs and uses truthfully. One of the post-production blogs discussed the "filmmaker" ad. The lady complained about "only 2gb of RAM" and the blogger/editor said what'swromg with "only" 2GB of RAM. He also had other facts to back him up, but both of us are running Final Cut Pro on MacBook Pros with that same 2GB doing just fine for us. Heck, I've even run Motion on my laptop. I really want to make my own ad in a Vest Buy or Frys just like MS and show in what cases the Macs come out on top.

-Brian

[spidermitch]

Yeah, well--and this is a true story--Mark Spitz called up Kevin Turner the other day and demanded his mustache back! So you know it's working when Kevin's 'stache even creeps out Mark Spitz!!

WTF does he think he is?? JC this Kevin is a piece of work. He even admits that he thought it was a joke. What a d-bag.

[djgamble]

What I don't understand is why Microsoft are trying to sell computers for manufactures when they don't even make them. Sure, they get a license fee but surely they get that in advance anyway.

So Microsoft's whole point behind these ads are moot anyway.

Well yeah... Macs are technically PC's.

M$' ads are a bit like Microsoft making an ad campaign where they say "don't buy Dells, they're more expensive than HP's!" And highlighting cases where Dells cost more money...

Since Macs run windows I would have thought M$ would be better off saying "hey! Windows runs on everything... if you like Apple's design, why not buy Windows as well?"

[Mebsat]

Kevin Turner sure does sound like a tool.

He doesn't just SOUND like a tool.....

[opeter]

A PC with a 2.66GHz Quad Core is probably more expensive than a PC with a 1.2 GHz Pentium 4...my point is mac is a higher end machine and the price difference is not that different if you compare it to a higher end windows machine. And again...I dont want to have to defend myself. If you think that you dont have to direct it at me.

Uhhmm... there was no Pentium 4 with 1.2 GHz (only Pentium III Tualatin).

Pentium 4 (Willamaette) started with 1.4 GHz and 1.5 GHz CPUs if I remember correctly, sometimes at the end of 2000.

[iEdd]

He doesn't just SOUND like a tool.....

lol he looks like a sleazy realto. :D

[SnowLeopard2008]

Apple wants people to know the truth. Microsoft wants to massively ripoff people with their monopoly-marketed Windows. I'm beginning to think the MS executive team are all .... use your imagination. First Ballmer claiming Apple will never succeed, now the iPhone is dominating the smartphone market with more apps than all the other platforms combined. Now Kevin Turner probably telling fibs about how the Apple legal department admitting that MS is telling the truth (when have the words Microsoft and truth ever been used in a sentence without the word not?). Focus on getting the majority of IT admins across US to adopt your Windows 7 and get a real OS name. XP, Vista... etc.

Note to MS: Apple's MacBook Pro ran Vista the best in 2007, when your entire marketfull of hardware vendors were scrambling to develop working (not quality, but just barely working) drivers. Yea, compatibility my (insert word). You're standing on a thin piece of wood called XP. For nearly 10 years without anything new. Stop trying to draw attention to yourselves by saying how Apple admits that you're telling the truth.

[BergerFan]

Riiiight. If you seriously think this you need to take a step back 'cause you are seriously approaching Apple fan-boy territory. Every person that has ever advertised anything has put their product in the best light possible and their competitors product in poor light (assuming a head-to-head type comparison).

All's fair in love and war.

[djellison]

Apple has been telling bare faced lies in it's "I'm a mac" adverts for years.

Payback's a bitch.

[slb]

Why are we all blindly accepting Kevin Turner's portrayal of the phone call?

[str1f3]

What are you talking about. I am not questioning whether they are scripted or not. I could care less of that.

If he is willing to lie about one thing, is it not possible to lie about another?
Especially when it is the same speech within a couple of sentences of each other?
While talking to Microsoft's partners?

See where I'm going yet?
Or do I have to bust out Keynote for you?

[asphyxiafeeling]

QQ moar apple, way2feed the MS trolls. like serious epic failure by apple.

[curmi]

I thought Microsoft didn't regard Apple as a threat? That's what they are always saying. Yes he did "cart wheels"?

This story sounds bogus. Maybe it was someone who *claimed* to be Apple Legal, and was really just a fan boi getting carried away?

[iEdd]

Apple has been telling bare faced lies in it's "I'm a mac" adverts for years.

Payback's a bitch.

No, just no. Both ads skew favour to the company advertising. The Microsoft ad plainly lies about pricing. That's the difference. It is not payback, it's false advertising.

[themcbrooms]

Apple has been telling bare faced lies in it's "I'm a mac" adverts for years.

Payback's a bitch.

Examples please.

[spillproof]

If this is true, Apple needs to get a grip. Its called competition. I love you Apple, but you bust MS's balls all the time. Can't take what you dish out?
Good luck with this Apple, hope it doesn't hurt you too bad.

[weeniewawa?]

They are not touting the number of their operating system are being sold, just hardware. Why doesn't microsoft say how many of these laptops are being sold to people who install another OS on them, like OSX86 or linux?

[mosx]

Oh man. It's funny that these ads STILL get the Apple fans all riled up. For years, Apple had been telling bold faced lies in the "Get a Mac" campaign and Apple fans ate it up. Now that Microsoft is running true ads showing the real picture, its blasphemy! Apple and the fans can sure dish it out but they certainly can not take it at all.

Its even funnier still to see people still trying to use the car analogy to compare Macs and PCs. People say Macs are like BMWs and PCs are like Fords. Thats not in anyway true. Why? Because BMW actually uses higher quality components than Ford. Your Mac is built from all of the same parts as an HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. and its even built by the same Chinese worker who just put together an HP. And you can't even argue build quality in your favor, despite the use of aluminum. I've seen a modern HP (the HDX 16 line) get hit, by accident, into a wall at full force. Once wiped off, the HP showed no signs of impact. The wall, however, had a nice mark in it from the computer hitting it. At the same time, I've seen the unibody MacBook (and Pro) get malformed from being set down on a table slightly too hard. Neither system mentioned were systems I owned. I don't treat either badly. But yeah.

The car analogy fails entirely because a Mac is built from the exact same parts by the exact same workers as an HP, Acer, Dell, Lenovo, etc., while a BMW is built from higher quality parts by more highly skilled individuals compared to Ford.

And yet, even funnier than that, is the people who say nonsense like "but studies have shown that Macs and PCs are actually equal in price!". That is just a bunch of nonsense. Those so-called "studies" are just articles typed up by Apple fanboys at a publication who over-spec a PC to prove their own points. I've seen many of those where those idiots try to compare a PC tower to a Mac Pro and add in things like RAID cards, even though the motherboard they chose supports RAID itself! It's ridiculous. The reality is that Macs either cost more or give you significantly less for the same amount.

Let's look at a couple of systems for a minute. Let's compare the $1199 MacBook "Pro" to the Dell Studio XPS 13. For $20 more than the MacBook "Pro" you get a faster processor (2.4GHz versus 2.26), double the RAM (DDR3 too!), 90GB more HDD space on a 7200 RPM drive (versus 5400), DUAL GPUs running in Hybrid SLI mode. That would be the same 9400M plus a 256MB GeForce 9500M. It's 0.88" thick at the front and 1.35" thick at the back, which allows for a proper cooling system, and it weighs 4.86 pounds.

Now let's compare certain features. You don't get the "multi-touch trackpad". Honestly, so what? I've had a unibody MacBook since November and it's been since November since I used the "multi-touch" features. They're largely useless and a gimmick anyway. You can't use use gimmicky features like reverse pinching to zoom in on a picture to replace proper functionality. The four finger swipe to activate Expose isn't anywhere near as good as Aero Peak in alt-tab in Windows 7.

You don't get the backlit keyboard. But, again, who cares? I know how to type. The screen has always illuminated the keyboard.

Now what do you get that the MacBook "Pro" doesn't have?

You get VGA, DisplayPort, and HDMI with audio support. No silly expensive adapters needed.

You get two USB 2.0 ports, one shared with eSATA.

You get Firewire.

You get full size ExpressCard 54.

You get proper audio in and out.

You get an 8-in-1 card reader, not just a silly half-assed SD card slot.

You also get a 1 year warranty that includes on-site in-home support, and the optional extended warranty warranty with in-home support costs about the same as AppleCare.

So let's see. For $20 more you get a faster processor, dual GPUs running in Hybrid SLI, double the RAM, more storage on a faster HDD, a screen that is NOT a mirror, VGA, DisplayPort, HDMI with audio, eSATA, USB 2.0, Firewire, fullsize ExpressCard, proper audio in and out, 8-in-1 card reader, and a better standard warranty.

Oh I forgot you get a USER REPLACEABLE battery. Sorry, but an integrated battery is the worst idea since using mirrors for screens.

What else?

Oh yeah. In that same $1100-$1300 price range, you can get a 15.4" or 16" system with a 2.4GHz or better Core 2 Duo, 4GB or more of RAM, 320GB 7200 RPM HDDs, blu-ray, 1GB GeForce 9800M GS or better, HDMI, Dolby Digital Live!, etc. So yes, Macs DO cost more and come with significantly less.

And to finish it off, this entire post has been typed up on a unibody MacBook.

[LethalWolfe]

No, just no. Both ads skew favour to the company advertising. The Microsoft ad plainly lies about pricing. That's the difference. It is not payback, it's false advertising.
Kinda like how Apple lied about the G5 tower being the fastest PC on Earth or how they lied about the iPhone being able to access all parts of the internet (as long as 'all part's didn't include Java or Flash) or how they lied by showing applications and functions on the iPhone operating significantly faster than they actually performed in real life?

There are no saints here.


Lethal

[iEdd]

how they lied about the iPhone being able to access all parts of the internet

And wasn't that ad taken down?

[Macminiintel]

Apple lied about the G5 tower being the fastest PC on Earth

The g5 was the fastest computer you could buy back in 2003, benchmarks had shown it, tests between the fastest P4 at the time also showed it, nothing could match it

[arjaosx]

I believe in a few days someone will look like a big tool. :D The same kind of tool that ran for vice president and lost. That is if this is even true.

[bedifferent]

Kinda like how Apple lied about the G5 tower being the fastest PC on Earth or how they lied about the iPhone being able to access all parts of the internet (as long as 'all part's didn't include Java or Flash) or how they lied by showing applications and functions on the iPhone operating significantly faster than they actually performed in real life?

There are no saints here.


Lethal

I'm not going to argue whether Apple or Microsoft has falsified claims. I will argue that I believe the story that Apple called Microsoft about pulling their ads either b.s. or exaggerated.

I believe in a few days someone will look like a big tool. :D The same kind of tool that ran for vice president and lost. That is if this is even true.

Um, the tallied votes showed that Gore did win the 2000 election, however Gore did not challenge the vote and Bush took the Presidency. So in essence, Gore was the "bigger man". Just stating.

[djellison]

And wasn't that ad taken down?

The Advertising Standards Agency demanded they take it down. Infact - they've done that twice

'Really fast'
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45381.htm
The ad breached CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rules 5.1 (Misleading Advertising), 5.2.1 (Evidence), 5.2.2 (Implications) and 5.4.1 (Visual techniques and special effects).

'Whole internet'
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_44891.htm
The ad breached CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code rules 5.1 (Misleading advertising), 5.2.1 (Evidence) and 5.2.2 (Implications).

Documented misleading advertising from Apple. (yes - there are Msoft complaints at the ASA as well. No one's claiming Msoft advertising is perfect either. None of them point the trigger at Apple in the way Apple have been lying about Msoft for years)


Microsoft used actors for these ads, that's obvious. But the prices were what they were at the time. They did an honest comparison. The Mac's might be different prices NOW....guess what? So will the PC be as well. Are Apple suddenly ashamed of the prices at the time of filming. They should be . All Msoft need to do is put "Prices as of dd/mm/yy" on the ads.

And for years, Apple has been perpetuating myths about PC's in their 'I'm a Mac' adverts. Adverts that have NEVER EVER honestly represented PC's.

[LethalWolfe]

And wasn't that ad taken down?
It was either pulled or disclaimer text was added, I don't remember which. My point is though about the hypocrisy exhibited by some members in this thread.

The g5 was the fastest computer you could buy back in 2003, benchmarks had shown it, tests between the fastest P4 at the time also showed it, nothing could match it
In some tests the G5 won and in some tests it lost and some tests just weren't accurate because of the difficulties of testing two different platforms. After people started questioning Apple it didn't take too long for them to stop calling the G5 the fastest PC on Earth.


Lethal

[iEdd]

It was either pulled or disclaimer text was added, I don't remember which. My point is though about the hypocrisy exhibited by some members in this thread.

Exactly. Just so we're clear, it's not hypocrisy to say that if a Mac ad is amended due to false advertising, then a PC/Windows ad should also be amended to rectify false advertising.

[LethalWolfe]

Exactly. Just so we're clear, it's not hypocrisy to say that if a Mac ad is amended due to false advertising, then a PC/Windows ad should also be amended to rectify false advertising.
Agreed.


Lethal

[chat2ian]

Yeah, like Apple would call MSFT and say "don't run your ads anymore".

What a crock. You people will believe anything.

[themcbrooms]

@mosx

Hilarious. I love how you go on to mention positive hardware differences in the Mac that DO change the cost, justifiably, but becuase YOU can "ignore" them or explain them away, it somehow makes your point valid now? That's a little asinine. Also, the whole car analogy that still applies. It is the high end uni-body (no other laptops have this), the glass track pad (no other laptops have this), the mag safe adapter (no other laptops have this), the OS (no other laptops have this), the real world 8 hour battery (no other laptops have this). It's the WHOLE package that differs from the plastic shell packages of the others.....These extra things you like to explain away make the BMW vs Ford analogy work.

I guess my conclusion is that logic is missing in the world today.

[mdriftmeyer]

Not sure if this has been posted (or why it hasn't in case it hasn't) but this is sort of interesting:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10288022-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Source: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/elop/07-15-09WPC2009.mspx


I pulled this out of my Sunday newspaper. I have an old habit because I came from retail looking at the Sunday tabs and circulars that are in newspapers. This is straight out of my paper last Sunday. This is a comparison out of a leading electronics retailer that you can get a 13.3-inch Macbook for US$1199 from that retailer. Guess what. That same retailer, you can get the same PC with more RAM, a bigger hard drive, and almost a three-inch bigger screen for US$649. What an incredible opportunity.

And so we've been running these PC value ads. Just giving people saying, hey, what are you looking to spend? “Oh, I'm looking to spend less than $1,000.” Well we'll give you $1,000. Go in and look and see what you can buy. And they come out and they just show them. Those are completely unscripted commercials.

And you know why I know they're working? Because two weeks ago we got a call from the Apple legal department saying, hey -- this is a true story -- saying, "Hey, you need to stop running those ads, we lowered our prices." They took like $100 off or something. It was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business. (Applause.)


Now I know he is full of s***.

[vettori]

I think that Apple should raise its prices by 100$ and show to Microsoft that it's still selling its great products !

This could be a great ad!

[inkswamp]

All Apple has to do is re-cast these "PC hunter" ads like this:

Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC and... oh... darn it...
Mac: What's wrong, PC?
PC: Oh, my hard drive keeps making this annoying sound. It won't stop.
Mac: Sorry to hear that.
PC: Yeah, we have to keep prices down so we're always getting stuffed with low-end, bargain basement parts that constantly fall apart and have to be replaced. You know how it goes.
Mac: Not really. Macs are made from the best components out there. Consumer Reports says we have fewer hardware failures than PCs. And we're--
PC: What?! I can't hear you over this hard drive noise--Oh! There goes my display.

[xspecialist]

to the macbook pro aluminum unibody owner up there, really?? it's a unibody. the auto analogy works exactly. people buy mercedes because they're solid. remember that "it's what you'd expect from a mercedes" commercial? fully grown men could hang on the doors or something, not that they'd need to, but they could. there is not a unibody pc.

i'll throw another one at you: the pc is a wal-mart grocery store, the mac is whole foods. i'll agree that i pay a premium for my preference in OS.

i'll admit it: i'm a designer... or, an architecture student. i think everything should be moving by way apple: better quality, even if that means you'll have to raise your prices and lose a share of the market. if houses were built with a unibody, phiew. i could only dream.

i'll allow windows to advertise as the wal-mart of computers. there.

[4D4M]

I think that Apple should raise its prices by 100$ and show to Microsoft that it's still selling its great products !

This could be a great ad!

I second that - in fact let's make it $200. My Mac is worth 3 times as much as any PC to me. I'd hate to have to do my job on something inferior.

[beg_ne]

I just don't find MS trustworthy at all.

Here they are claiming that the people are "real" people, who also didn't know they were participating in an ad.

http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsexperience/archive/2009/03/26/laptop-hunters-real-people-find-windows-pcs-a-better-fit-for-their-lives.aspx

Even though we know Lauren was indeed an actress, and we have evidence that she never really went into the Mac store.

Hardly "real" and "unscripted" IMO.

[rcarranza]

I find it hard to believe that a company with the PR track record of Apple would make such a blunder as phoning up Microsoft and asking for these adverts to be stopped. It does sound like someone in Microsoft embellishing the truth and creating their own positive spin on the situation!

As for the adverts themselves, I've always believed that they were an incredibly risky maneuver for Microsoft. Basically, by advertising themselves as the cheap alternative they risk losing a lot or desirability in the eyes of consumers. Many consumers still believe that higher price=higher quality.

What I find ironic about the whole situation though is a primarily software company, advertising the hardware of another company, against a company that creates the hardware AND the software. This would be like Bridgestone tires advertising Audi cars.

As many have said here, the adverts can be misleading. The adverts have focused solely on price rather than user experience and ease of use. Many people who have switched to Mac frequently talk about how simple functions are to use compared to Windows. Additionally, and most importantly, the adverts are concentrating on the old lineup of Apple computers as opposed to the refresh, which have brought down the price of all products. Additionally, go to the Dell/Sony website and create a computer equal in spec to any Mac and they themselves are equal in price, if not more expensive, than a Mac. The cheaper laptops in these adverts are just that, cheaper laptops. They may have better specs but they may not be as aesthetically pleasing or as built to the same quality as a Mac.

You could spend the money and buy a BMW but go on, buy a Kia, it does the same job and is cheaper. Thats the basic message of these adverts, and they may work with the less techno savvy of the world but many people would still rather buy the 'expensive' quality built alternative.

[slimpunk]

I love how the PCs the "hunters" decide on look like they weigh about 50 pounds.

Yeah, good luck lugging those things around :p

[jgbhardy]

They do.

THAT'S exactly what this is about.

There is one ad where they look at MBPs and say, "The cheapest one is $2,000."

Considering that same model is $1,600 now, I can see why Apple would want that changed, because it is inaccurate.

And doesn't this guy get it? By making these ads in the first place, they are admitting that Apple has gotten to them... Seems a bit hypocritical given his reaction.

Also, Microsoft STILL doesn't make computers.

Thank you! Someone obviously gets this.
If Apple even did call, which they properly didn't as others have said it would have been a legal document, it's for a legitimate reason. Its not about Apple getting pissy over MS bashing Macs its about literal cost representation in the adverts, just as someone mentioned earlier about Apple not being able to air some Adverts in England due to their misrepresentation and misleading information, MS shouldn't be allowed to continue certain adverts when the prices they talk about are incorrect. Simple legal facts about prices, wouldn't you ask someone to change it if they had the prices wrong in an advert that's all it is.

[wheelhot]

I don't trust this, well he can just make it up so that the attention will now be on Apple and besides, Apple got nothing to prove to Microsoft. We all know there are reasons why Macs are sold more expensive then PCs.

And heck, ask every person who used XP and they will tell you that Vista sucks when they use it. So yeah, I think this guy is BS about it.

[AlexisV]

Its even funnier still to see people still trying to use the car analogy to compare Macs and PCs. People say Macs are like BMWs and PCs are like Fords. Thats not in anyway true. Why? Because BMW actually uses higher quality components than Ford. Your Mac is built from all of the same parts as an HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. and its even built by the same Chinese worker who just put together an HP. And you can't even argue build quality in your favor, despite the use of aluminum. I've seen a modern HP (the HDX 16 line) get hit, by accident, into a wall at full force. Once wiped off, the HP showed no signs of impact. The wall, however, had a nice mark in it from the computer hitting it. At the same time, I've seen the unibody MacBook (and Pro) get malformed from being set down on a table slightly too hard. Neither system mentioned were systems I owned. I don't treat either badly. But yeah.

The car analogy fails entirely because a Mac is built from the exact same parts by the exact same workers as an HP, Acer, Dell, Lenovo, etc., while a BMW is built from higher quality parts by more highly skilled individuals compared to Ford.

You miss the entire point of the car analogy in an epic way.

Fail.

[nick9191]

If this is true, Apple are idiots. What decent lawyer calls Microsoft and says "hey you need to take the ads down, we lowered our prices". Even though they only lowered their prices on the better models, it still costs $999 for the cheapest laptop (not saying thats a bad thing).

Were the ads total crap? Yes. They implied you could pick up a laptop with the exact same specs as a 17" MacBook Pro for $700, when they were only comparing on the screen (and even that was 1440 x 900). They were misleading.

[BongoBanger]

And heck, ask every person who used XP and they will tell you that Vista sucks when they use it.

No they won't.

And, yes, this call is true.

[makingdots]

So funny that there are Microsoft Fanboys here in "MAC"rumors forums.

You guys should carry your ass to engadget site. :D

[rcarranza]

No they won't.

And, yes, this call is true.

Explain why Microsoft had to rename Vista just to get people to try it out?

Vista was and is a hunk of junk. I work in retail and people have actually turned down the laptops we sell because they run Vista, or they've asked if we could install XP on them.

And stating that this call is true without supporting evidence doesn't prove anything. As mentioned by so many of us, and as a student of PR, a company can and will embellish the truth to paint themselves in a more favorable light. They may not lie, as lies are invariably found out, but they may exaggerate.

"Elvis is still alive." Is that a fact now I've said it?

[iSneaker]

The people that play in these ads are retards.. Come on! If you buy a windows laptop for 400 bucks you know you will get a crapy machine! And don't forget, you have to buy anti-software for viruses & spam ****.. A why would I care.. People who buy a windows machine are idiots..

[djellison]

The person claimin the $1600 MBP is the same as the old $2000 MBP is wrong. It's dumped the discreet graphics and now simply has the same graphics as the old UBMB. It was downgraded - significantly.

[thetrystero]

Before y'all go flamin' on Apple, maybe you should consider that fact that Turner could just have been making this all up as a publicity stunt.
Personally, I'm calling a hoax. It's just too way out of Apple's league to stoop to that level.

[djellison]

The people that play in these ads are retards.. Come on! If you buy a windows laptop for 400 bucks you know you will get a crapy machine! And don't forget, you have to buy anti-software for viruses & spam ****.. A why would I care.. People who buy a windows machine are idiots..


My Dad got a £450 Dell with a fantastic 17" display, more performance than he knows what to do with, loads of Ram and a huge HDD. Avast AV software is free ( and very effective, and has no noticeable performance impact on the machine). It does everything he needs. It does it quickly. It looks great. The one thing he wanted was a big screen.

Why, exactly, is he an idiot, and why am I one for recommending it rather than the only Mac laptop with a display that large, which is £1850. How can you justify the £1400 difference. I'm on my third Mac laptop - and I couldn't even begin to recommend a Mac for him.

Essentially, I went through the same process the adverts are talking about. What do I need..... now how much can I have it for. £1850 vs £450. No contest. None whatsoever.

[TheWarIsNotOver]

There is a difference though, Apple just point outs the differences between Apple computers and "PC's". They don't say which to pick, only what the pro's en con's. Microsoft on the other hand explicitly says that Mac's are too expensive to buy and that Microsoft laptops are a better choice. There is a slight difference, the Mac/PC ads are funny as well...

[peepboon]

LOL! Can't believe Apple asked them to stop running the Ads when MS hasn't even asked Apple to stop running the 'I'm a Mac' ads >.>

I'm on MS side with this one. Remember guys, more competition = Lower prices.

[Shasterball]

Oh Apple. Grow up. Who was the first to start running ads poking fun at the other?

[trekkie604]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

All microsoft has to do is watermark their current commercials with "prices as of xx/xx/xx" and then apple can whine all they want.

[DELLsFan]

I can see you obviously disagree with me...no need to point out the fact that the company's name is apple. The ads dont give a comparison of what you are actually getting. I would like to see here is mac with processor, hard drive, screen size, etc and here is pc with... However if they did that it wouldn't be as effective for Microsoft. I just want them to actually say more than jeez these macs are expensive.

They don't have to. Just like Apple doesn't have to waste their valuable 30 seconds of commercial time issuing disclaimers about how it really is education and behavior that is the best protection against malware - not the inherent stability and bug-free nature of the OS. You may not want MS to point out the biggest turn off in buying a Mac, but your desires don't make it less true. By the same token, I may prefer Apple said more than just "jeez, these PCs are error-prone and susceptible to viruses", in their ads, but although they are correct, they also aren't telling the entire story.

[BongoBanger]

Explain why Microsoft had to rename Vista just to get people to try it out?

Public perception. They made a complete mess of the launch then they fixed it. I use it every day and it's a good, reliable OS. I also use XP every day and it's a slow, unwieldy, antiquated horror.

Vista was and is a hunk of junk. I work in retail and people have actually turned down the laptops we sell because they run Vista, or they've asked if we could install XP on them.

I work as an IT manager in a large financial group and actually use the product. I and most people who use Vista don't actually care what a few people who returned some laptops to a store think.

And stating that this call is true without supporting evidence doesn't prove anything.

Fine. Let's wait for Apple's denial and then, since MS will inevitably have recorded the call, we can see what was actually said?

That is if Apple actually deny it.

[freeny]

Im not buying it for a second. The call never happened. Apple is too smart for a dumb move like that. I expect MS will be backing up on their words very soon... ;)

[cwedl]

The laptop hunters adverts takes advantage of peoples ignorance when it come to computers, to feed them loosely correct information.

[FlagellumDei]

ALL Apple products are overpriced...

[StuBeck]

Very bizarre story. Sounds like BS to me. Maybe someone called with a very specific complaint about a particular claim? Even that sounds iffy.

And that's the reason he knows they are effective? Because Apple legal called? They don't have metrics that tell them whether this ad money was well spent? If there is truth to this at all this is something small that was blown out of proportion.

Theres already been reports that people's perceptions about Windows has changed since the ads came out. A lot of this is probably to do with people who don't know how cheap a computer can actually cost, I still get people who think $1k for a desktop isn't possible, and sadly this is from our supplier of AutoCAD machines (and yes, these are better spec'ed machines then they say we should buy for $2k).

I won't believe that Apple didn't make the request unless I hear something else. Their lawsuits against companies who used the word "Pod" in the name of their products, even if the product had that name before the iPod came out, was ridiculous, so this is in the same vein.

Either side complaining about the MS or Apple ad's being dishonest should just look at what their "side" does. None of the ads are completely honest. Apple has gone way overboard on making PC's seem like complete POS's and requiring constant maintenance, and MS doesn't explain what that extra cost gets you hardware wise. Anyways, its an ad, of course they're not going to go into detail about why the other side is better!

[Hattig]

Dear Apple,
Good luck with that.
Did MS ask for the I'm a Mac ads to be pulled?

It's a reasonable request, and I'm sure it wasn't made in the way that the story suggests.

Most likely it referred to specific adverts that had specific price points for the laptops featured, which because invalid once Apple had changed the prices. Continuing to use these adverts would be false advertising. I presume that Microsoft aren't so stupid as to keep on using these adverts. I'm also sure that Apple didn't tell them to stop running the general theme of the adverts.

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

I'm surprised he's making such comments as the COO. Comments like that are usually reserved for the snotty public relations or marketing department.

Personally, I find Turner's comments a bit bizarre. Why would Apple's legal department contact the COO? In all likelihood, Turner received a phone call from Microsoft's legal department regarding the manner. His entire story seems a bit odd.

By the way, this is also the same guy who made the comment about Microsoft building their stores next to Apple stores.

I seriously doubt even Apple legal called MS legal much less the COO..

Legal things are done legally.

Indeed. Legal depts don't call competitors' COOs to verbally complain if their issue is a misleading ad campaign. This story is full of holes. Not to say apple didn't contact MS in some way about this, but I guarantee you it didn't happen like this guy said.

[Goona]

I don't believe an ounce of this. They need to produce the transcript of the phone call if it ever took place.

[xlii]

I really don't get the whole point of the laphunter ads. I have to assume that they are retaliation for Apple's "I'm a Mac, your a PC ads"...

A better ad from MS would be positive and educate potential computer buyers that they can buy an Apple machine and run windows, microsoft office, games... in fact any software that runs on a pc will run on a mac. You can even plug in your Zune, and when Windows 7 comes out you will be able to run that too.

MS focus should be to sell more software... the above paragraph attempts to do that.

[xlii]

In fact, to continue... Apple could use the same add to educate PC users that they can buy a Mac and still run all the PC software that they have acquired over the years. I don't know why we don't see that ad.

[makingdots]

ALL Apple products are overpriced...

and yet people buy them because it's worth it! Considering that there are tons of alternatives out there.

You guys believing that Apple will actually call MS and said "stop those ads" LOL. You people will believe anything so funny.

[arlecchino]

Lawyers just don't do what Turner is claiming. I know, I am one. I would never call a competitor's COO and complain, least of all how he claims Apple's lawyers complained.

Lawyers write letters, and they only spend time writing letters when they have a colorable (no, not necessarily legitimate) claim for legal action. If they have a claim against a company like M$, they certainly are not sending a letter to the COO, but to corporate counsel, who I am sure they know and deal with regularly about a host of matters.

I personally think the ads are misleading mostly because Microsoft hasn't really bothered to edit what the shopper says in an attempt to be "off the cuff" in the ad style.

So if it happened, it wasn't the legal department, but Turner is as good at spin as Ballmer. People in the legal field know he just sounds like a tool.

[Anuba]

The ads are misleading in many ways though...I can understand why mac is upset. I don't think they should be calling and asking for the ads to be removed that is just asking for it to be thrown in their face. It is a shame that the laptop hunter ads are working, because all they do is convince people to buy a windows laptop without actually offering any evidence or credible data to support it. I know the ads piss me off when I see them because they don't ever compare the two laptops feature for feature. It isn't illegal but it is crummy what Microsoft is doing.
Oh, and I suppose Apple's long running Mac vs PC ad series isn't misleading in the slightest? Aside from a few grains of truth, those ads are based on wild exaggerations, myths and lies. Truth wise, they stoop to the level of those late night ab trainer and tooth whitening infomercials. They also indirectly mock PC users (they can say all they want that Hodgman and Long aren't supposed to be actual people, but that excuse is about as transparent as OJ's insistence that he cut his hand on some broken glass).

The Laptop Hunter ads don't really lie at all. Sure, the featured computers are crappier than they're made out to be, but what they're saying about Macs (which is the part that Apple complained about) is true. They are ridiculously expensive with very little to show for it.

[bruinsrme]

I really don't get the whole point of the laphunter ads. I have to assume that they are retaliation for Apple's "I'm a Mac, your a PC ads"...

A better ad from MS would be positive and educate potential computer buyers that they can buy an Apple machine and run windows, microsoft office, games... in fact any software that runs on a pc will run on a mac. You can even plug in your Zune, and when Windows 7 comes out you will be able to run that too.

MS focus should be to sell more software... the above paragraph attempts to do that.

MS makes a ton of money supporting OEMs. Why would you want to piss off your biggest customers by directing them to Apple as opposed to Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony and so on?

[DELLsFan]

... Lawyers Paralegals and Secretaries for "lawyers" write letters, and they only spend time writing letters when they have a colorable (no, not necessarily legitimate) claim for legal action. If they have a claim against a company like M$, they certainly are not sending a letter to the COO, but to corporate counsel, who I am sure they know and deal with regularly about a host of matters...

Fixed. I can't remember the last time my lawyer did ANYTHING except sign something his staff researched and prepared for him. :D

[maxp1]

Indeed. Legal depts don't call competitors' COOs to verbally complain if their issue is a misleading ad campaign. This story is full of holes. Not to say apple didn't contact MS in some way about this, but I guarantee you it didn't happen like this guy said.

QFT. This story smells like bad fish. No company I've ever heard of would call a competitor to ask them to stop running ads. That would be admitting the ads were hurting you and give the competitor more reason to continue to run the ads.

I can see the legal dept writing a letter if the ads were factually inaccurate. I'm betting that's what happened here. An embellished story about embellished ads.

[L0s7man]

Yeah, M$ (I hate M$ but I hate Apple too; just in a different way) should do ad like this:

- Look mom, look! It's an Apple!
- No son, it's just a fancy PC!

I've been saying it all along. It's still x86, so it's a PC. The only difference is SOFTWARE!

[hagjohn]

A PC with a 2.66GHz Quad Core is probably more expensive than a PC with a 1.2 GHz Pentium 4...my point is mac is a higher end machine and the price difference is not that different if you compare it to a higher end windows machine. And again...I dont want to have to defend myself. If you think that you dont have to direct it at me.

Mac's are not higher end. Mac's have a great case and OS X. The hardware in it, is not higher end than a PC. It's the same hardware that you can get in most any computer.

[Hmm]

At first I said, "Is this a joke? Who are you?"

It's strange that no name was provided, just "Apple legal." Like

"Hi, this is Apple Legal. We need you to stop running those ads because we lowered our prices. So stop running them. They're very legally annoying to those of us here at Apple Legal, so we're legally telling you stop now because that's what we here at Apple Legal do. Also, we have an uncle in Nigeria who is in possession of 3 (three) million dollars and requests your assistance in moving this money to the United States for which you will be greatly rewarded."

[AdeFowler]

The guy admits he was doing 'cartwheels down the corridor' ?

Exactly how worried are the mighty Microsoft about little Apple and their <10% market share? Strange times indeed ;)

[Anuba]

Mac's are not higher end. Mac's have a great case and OS X. The hardware in it, is not higher end than a PC. It's the same hardware that you can get in most any computer.
Yeah, the internals are just midrange junk. The multi-touch trackpad is pretty unique, though... for now. But it's funny (and sad) how powerful the placebo effect of a brand and a nice aluminum exterior can be. It really sells the illusion of high end.

[kernkraft]

- Hi, I'm a Mac!

- And I'm a PC.

- Stop it, PC or I will sue your head off!

- But I just...

- S T O P I T! STOP IT! You are uncool! You are unreliable! Everybody hates you! You are a piece of junk!

- Err, actually, it's not true, beca...

- Enough, I'm calling the legal team!

[OutSpoken]

As much as I love Apple products, I think the MS ads are healthy competition for Apple.

And at the end of the day tactics like this should force Apple to up their game, offering us the consumer more benifits with their products..whether thats more value for money or better innovative features.

So apple fan boys should really stop complaining.

I watched the commercials and had a right ol chuckle:)

[jayenh]

Mac's are not higher end. Mac's have a great case and OS X. The hardware in it, is not higher end than a PC. It's the same hardware that you can get in most any computer.

i think his point is that microsoft adds compare lower spec PC's to Macs. they don't do an exact hardware match. like the chick who wanted to do video editing. didn't she buy a PC with 3gb of ddr2 ram, while the mac they compared it to came with 4gb ddr3?

i don't think he was arguing that macs have special uber hardware in them.

[arkitect]

WTF Apple?

Seriously.
After years of I'm a Mac vs I'm a PC ads Apple feel aggrieved by Microsoft's advertising campaign?
:rolleyes:

Perhaps the ads cut just a tad too close to the bone for Apple, Inc's liking.

[Alastair]

Genius on Apple's part to con Microsoft into continuing to waste their advertising budget promoting Apple hardware.

[chuckiej]

Very bizarre story. Sounds like BS to me. Maybe someone called with a very specific complaint about a particular claim? Even that sounds iffy.

And that's the reason he knows they are effective? Because Apple legal called? They don't have metrics that tell them whether this ad money was well spent? If there is truth to this at all this is something small that was blown out of proportion.

Yeah its gotta be total bull. This guy has no proof it was actually Apple that called and Apple Legal has "been doin' this for years", knows the game, and would not call MS about the price issue. Gimme a break. Apple can fight back with ads much better and the price drops already helped some of my friends go Mac.

More likely call:

Apple: "Hey, we noticed the clouds don't move"
MS: "So?"
Apple: "You claim the girl and her mom went and shopped for a while and decided on a certain notebook and then came back outside, when really you filmed the whole outside part at the same time."
MS: "Oh, you noticed that did ya?"
Apple: "You are such a nub"

[urbanlung]

Surely Apple can't be that dumb. This story must be bull.

[racer1441]

This is really suspicious.

1) It's one quote from one of those untrustworthy Microsoft guys.

2) Why would you want these ads pulled? They are horrible for PC's. It makes PC users look like stuck up, snobbish, or just simply moronic. IF you're asking the guy at bestbuy about the computer that's going to keep you working, you don't deserve to remain in society.


The funny funny part is that Microsoft is so bent about going after Apple, and in the mean time, Google is sneaking up behind them with the knife.

[Anuba]

Apple can fight back with ads much better and the price drops already helped some of my friends go Mac.
And by price drops, do you mean the modest US-exclusive price drops or the international price hikes? 'Cause, you know, over the last 6 months the prices on Macs have gone way up outside the U.S. Sure, the US dollar has recovered a little, but it's still only worth half of what it was when it peaked during the Clinton days. Apple must be using some currency exchange matrix that they made up during a crack smoking session because the prices on other American computers have not gone up by 15-20%, they've remained the same.
It makes PC users look like stuck up, snobbish, or just simply moronic. IF you're asking the guy at bestbuy about the computer that's going to keep you working, you don't deserve to remain in society.
Could you contradict yourself a little more, please? What you said there at the end was about as snobbish as it gets. In the previous sentence you suggested the laptop hunter ads make PC users look stuck up and snobbish, which is quite possibly the strangest interpretation of those ads I've ever heard. You're alone there. Everyone else thought it made PC users look like poor people. Hence the parody where a homeless guy goes looking for a new PC.

[jsado13]

Genius on Apple's part to con Microsoft into continuing to waste their advertising budget promoting Apple hardware.

Now THAT would be funny

[Mac21ND]

Most likely, Apple Legal probably made some type of standard inquiry about Microsoft's advertising. It's just the usual chest pounding between legal departments of corporate companies. It's not like Steve called Bill and said, "Please stop it, I beg you!!!"

The Turner guy just played it up in front of a pro-MS crowd, just like Apple plays it up at WWDC. If you're going to give a little, you've got to take a little too. Typical school yard junk.

[no.1 Apple Fan]

microsoft is helpless.

[the vj]

Apple should air the "I may be poor but I am not retarded" ad.

[kernkraft]

So now, it's official - Apple became the new Microsoft. Trigger-happy with a powerful legal team, selling PCs with a reasonably good OS for a massive premium (built in dodgy factories, where employees are underpaid and work illegally long hours, also called sweatshops); and while bullying the competition, threatening when they apply similar tactics.

Once somebody rules that OS X can be legally put on other hardware, they had it. After having a unibody 2.53GHz MB Pro, a bunch of 2.4GHz unibody MB prototypes and a MB Air, all having some fault, my next computer will have the same parts (apart from the trackpad) but supplied by another company. And I will put OS X on it. Sue me, Apple!

Or alternatively, I will keep doing the same - buying a computer and returning it when the faults become so severe that I can argue, they are not fit for purpose.

[Rot'nApple]

However, the ads work on less tech savy people. Its marketing. Apple took advantage of it, anyone can.

What Apple should really be doing is start changing their "Get a Mac" campaign ads and focus on something new and catchy; more so than "Laptop Hunters"

Bring back the "Swithcer" ads with newer versions of the same old PC problems like Ellen Feiss's "beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep!" noise right before her PC crashed and she lost her school report and had to write another one quickly and it wasn't as good and got a lower grade." ad. :D

I hope Apple legal didn't call MS to say pull down those ads. If they did, they are such tools! :eek:

Apple has the creativity to put together a better ad campaign to reply to MS PC laptop hunter ads. They can do a monkey see, monkey do "The Original" ad... Goes something like this... MS sees Apple's OS and going the way of GUI. Monkey see, Monkey do... MS goes the way of the GUI. MS sees Apple raking in cash on the iPod and ITMS. Monkey see, Monkey do... MS comes out with the Zune/and marketplace. MS sees Apple retail stores are a big hit. Monkey see, monkey do... MS to open it's own retail shop near Apple stores because that is where the foot traffic is and maybe a few curious dolts would venture in to check out the MS store also. Apple creates a touchscreen only mobile phone with superior Web browsing experience and ease of use etc. MS's Ballmer laughs, but secretly... Monkey see, Monkey do... Then the "I'm a Mac" guy comes on and says "Why hunt for a cheaply made PC trying to emulate any one of Apple's quality products, when you can have the real thing! (apologies to Coke!)

So Apple, Get To It!. Go Apple! :apple:

[Mac21ND]

Apple should air the "I may be poor but I am not retarded" ad.

That was great! Good laugh.

[iberroa]

If Apple really did ask MS to pull the commercials then that's sad. Good job Microsucks, i guess it's working.
:apple:

[Anuba]

So now, it's official - Apple became the new Microsoft. Trigger-happy with a powerful legal team, selling PCs with a reasonably good OS for a massive premium (built in dodgy factories, where employees are underpaid and work illegally long hours, also called sweatshops); and while bullying the competition, threatening when they apply similar tactics.

Once somebody rules that OS X can be legally put on other hardware, they had it. After having a unibody 2.53GHz MB Pro, a bunch of 2.4GHz unibody MB prototypes and a MB Air, all having some fault, my next computer will have the same parts (apart from the trackpad) but supplied by another company. And I will put OS X on it. Sue me, Apple!

Or alternatively, I will keep doing the same - buying a computer and returning it when the faults become so severe that I can argue, they are not fit for purpose.
I agree that Apple's quality has gone completely down the toilet (2 out of my 3 Intel based Macs were defective), but IMO it affects every brand that's moved their manufacturing to China. All Chinese made stuff has dodgy build quality and a high failure rate. QC doesn't exist in that country. And unlike Japan, which had a similar rocky start back in the 50's and 60's, the quality is unlikely to improve, for cultural and political reasons. They'll still be cutting corners and building junk a hundred years from now.

[*LTD*]

Who cares?

MS' ads were a failure anyway.

It's just as valid to assume that Apple lowered prices for economic reasons, and had nothing to do with MS or its low-brow, bargain-basement ad campaign.

[Darkroom]

congratulations to Kevin Turner and his team. nice job :)

[organerito]

As I can see, most of the radical Apple fanboys feel attacked by the microsoft ads. That means they work. Apple and Microsoft ads are not exactly exact. Apple has ridiculed Windows PC many times. It is called competition. Microsoft just played Apple's game. That means that Microsoft should continue to hammer Apple. They reduced prices of their computers.

Apple started the PC vs Mac ads like a Lion and now they cry like a little girl without mommy.

[*LTD*]

Sounds like BS from Turner.

Are we all going to believe an MS tool now?

Right, Apple's legal team called him and told him that because he says so.
:rolleyes:

[hexor]

Or this could simply be another clever way of whipping up more resentment towards apple by saying this happened when it did not.

[Arcady]

Apple Legal didn't call Microsoft. Kevin Turner is a liar.

[deadpoet]

Sounds like BS from Turner.

Are we all going to believe an MS tool now?

Right, Apple's legal team called him and told him that because he says so.
:rolleyes:

I call BS too. Even if Turner received such a call, it could've been a hoax call.

Why would Apple legal call up Microsoft? It's absurd. That's not going to stop the haters from running riot with this fake story, of course.

[bearcat2000]

Just let them run them Apple. You're not going for these type of customers anyway. These are the people looking for 'cheap'. These are the people who don't give a rats a$$ how their experience is. Parallel this advertising to buying a car..."Lauren...go and find what kind of car you want to buy...under $20,000. So Lauren first goes to the Lexus dealership...I guess I'm not cool enough to get a Lexus." No, you just get what you pay for. Simple as that. Sure, that Kia you can buy will get you there, but what kind of quality experience does that get you? It's a no brainer.

[violaboy]

This is BS. Plain and simple. :confused:

My two cents...

Microsoft knows they sell an inferior OS to Apple, so their only selling point is price. I've had a lot of PCs and lots of Macs. You do get what you pay for! Hardware specs are one thing, but real world performance, usability, and reliability are another. I prefer Macs over PCs for these reasons.

[johnsy]

I think Apple might called Microsoft. But for a different reason than Microsoft boasts. The reason is that Apple lowered prices and Microsoft misrepresents Apple prices in their adds.

[slinky0390]

Who's mac? The guy driving the dump truck?
Misleading ads, how so?

What features of the laptops do you want them to compare, blu-ray for instance? Perhaps, larger screen, more ram, faster processor for less money?

Well, it is obvious that mac does not have blueray so that would be the one thing Microsoft legitimately has over apple. But lets say its a larger screen we are comparing, it could be larger, with a smaller resolution which is just as useful as those large print books.

[SkydiveGuy]

What Apple needs to do is make ad's that look very similar to the "laptop hunter ads" except have the user run the Windows Experience score on all those "under $700/$1000" laptops. and then have them run it on a Mac running windows in Boot Camp.... I do this in Best Buy all the time and leave the scores on the screens.

You get what you pay for when it comes to hardware and Mac hardware running Windows (VMWare or Boot Camp) is the same if not better.

I will put my MacBook Pro up against any laptop IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE, apples to apples (pun not intended) comparison.

Basically MS is saying in these laptop hunter ads that "if you want something cheap and poorly constructed, buy a PC. If you want something that is solid and will retain its value over the course of time, buy a Mac". Buy of course, people never see past the price tag.

[Jmanmadness23]

That was a bad move on Apple's part. That phone call pretty much gave Microsoft what they wanted, redemption for the I'm a Mac ads. And we'll see how stable & productive windows 7 will be, I'm a Mac ads may have a lot less to make fun of.

[finalcut]

Everything is possible but this is hard to beleive

[belvdr]

Only the weak and ignorant fall for advertising out of the box. Smart buyers will investigate it themselves and make a decision.

This whole thing is one big cat fight and can't see why anyone cares.

[nicegoogly]

First, I think this didn't happen. As an attorney, even if you make a phone call, you usually follow up with a letter (unless your request in that phone call is completely ridiculous, and I guess this qualifies).

Second, there is nothing inaccurate in these ads. They were accurate at the time they were produced, Apple changes things, thus a multi-million dollar ad campaign that is in the middle of its national and local spot run on television. So...next time a "Get a Mac" ads begin their run pointing out a flaw in Windows and Microsoft changes with a service pack update to address it, Apple should pull all those ads immediately? Please stop believing that Apple is so honorable and noble.

Also, what do you make of all those 13 inch macbook owners that bought their unibody macbooks to find out a month later it was converted to a macbook pro, better battery, sd card slot etc...I took advantage of the 15 inch MBP price drop myself, but I know several people upset with that new 13 inch macbook pro leaving them in the dust.

[Shasterball]

As I can see, most of the radical Apple fanboys feel attacked by the microsoft ads.

Ummm, no. In the end, I still have a computer that works 10x better than the 7-8 PCs I owned. :) Seriously, I would go through 1 laptop every 2 years with PCs. I've had the same MPB for ~3 years and it's still speedy and has no problems...

[Jon-Luke]

Anyone remember how bad this ad was? BILL & JERRY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SiBBi35zKY)

So now the only way to get at apple is to post the Laptop Hunters ads... But lets look at some history here; apple has been happily bashing Microsoft for years with their "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" ads - The only problem is that the Apple ads had a semblance of truth to them while the Laptop Hunters ads always had a stench of misrepresentation.

But the bottom line - for Microsoft to be aiming ads at Apple considering the actual market share... Microsoft must be very worried that they are loosing grip. (And IMHO Microsoft products are still vastly overpriced especially if you consider their turnover). I'm more than happy to pay more for superior product - but look the superior product is cheaper... Amazon Prices: OS X Leopard: $109.99 - Windows Vista Ultimate with SP1: $202.99 (Oh and Vista does not ship with anything that resembles Garage Band or iPhoto I wonder how much that additional software will cost once you have purchased your cheaper, plastic laptop).

Anyway just some of my thoughts on the matter

[mdelaney123]

I hope MS keeps these adds going! Apple has been pretty lazy with their laptop and iMac designs. We are paying a premium and Apple is not adding features that have been in the PC market for quite a while!

- Where is Blu-Ray?

- How about some HDMI ports on the laptops and Mac Mini?

- How about a Core-i7 chip in the iMacs?

- How about an option for a 10K RPM drive in the iMacs?

- How about support for TRUE HD on the Apple TV? What is is now, something like 750X550?

- How about built in support for TV Tuners? Windows Media Center is friggin awesome! (See above for HDMI)

- How about support for more card readers in both the laptops AND the iMac? (BTW, thank you OH SO MUCH for at least adding SD to the laptops ABOUT 4 YEARS AFTER it was readily available on PCs!)

I have an iMac and MacBook Pro 15, and use them both for iPhoto and iMovie. I send the photos and movies to an AppleTV and love how it all works together.

But, I am NOT an Apple Fan-Boy. MS has a point about the price difference and the better selection on PCs. There is a MUCH BETTER selection of software on PCs, and Vista/Windows 7 are very nice OSes, especially considering Windows Media Center.

I can't wait for MS to setup stores right near Apple stores. I always thought they need to show Media Center more as it is a KILLER App and is something that Apple doesn't have. I hope MS does a GREAT job with it.

Apple needs this kind of kick in the pants.

BTW, those of you comparing Macs to BMWs should stop. BMWs are some of the worse built cars on the road. They have the same number of defects as Chryslers. Check it out. It is why BMW gives you 3 years of free maintenance with the car! :cool: