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View Full Version : Dear Forum Members - Quit Complaining


mainstreetmark
Jun 9, 2004, 08:38 AM
At some point, you folks are going to have to realize that half the reason you're disappointed with every Apple announcement is because you got yourselves all built up by these rumor sites.

Take today's updated Powermacs. Jeez, a 25% speed increase! Liquid Cooling! Neat stuff, but if you're sitting here biting your nails for a 3 GHz, then sure, it seems bad, but you should also realize that in the world of engineering isn't like the world of suit tailoring, where you can easily predict when stuff that has never existed in the world before will be ready.

Or, the other day's Airport Express announcement with people wondering why it doesn't do every damn thing the Extreme does, even though it's half the price and advertised as something else entirely.

Or, the fact that the rumor sites have "promised" you new displays for months, and they haven't arrived yet, and you guys act like Apple is over there in California picking their noses, laughing all the way to the bank.

Or the fact that you have to pay for a new version of an OS (10.2, 10,3, 10.4...). You get lots of neat new stuff that you may want. If you don't think you want it, don't buy the damn thing. If you do, you're supporting Apple's OS division in making the world's best OS. Ever been to an airport with your powerbook and started Exposé-ing things? People dig that!

When you lead the way, it takes longer to cut the trail that others eventually follow.

If you have a problem - go follow Microsoft, and wait another 3 years for a significant update, or go follow Dell, and get predictably boring updates because they don't do anything very surprising.

Just quit complaining every time Apple releases something new, or that it's not as cheap as Walmart.

wrldwzrd89
Jun 9, 2004, 08:40 AM
At some point, you folks are going to have to realize that half the reason you're disappointed with every Apple announcement is because you got yourselves all built up by these rumor sites.

Take today's updated Powermacs. Jeez, a 25% speed increase! Liquid Cooling! Neat stuff, but if you're sitting here biting your nails for a 3 GHz, then sure, it seems bad, but you should also realize that in the world of engineering isn't like the world of suit tailoring, where you can easily predict when stuff that has never existed in the world before will be ready.

Or, the other day's Airport Express announcement with people wondering why it doesn't do every damn thing the Extreme does, even though it's half the price and advertised as something else entirely.

Or, the fact that the rumor sites have "promised" you new displays for months, and they haven't arrived yet, and you guys act like Apple is over there in California picking their noses, laughing all the way to the bank.

Or the fact that you have to pay for a new version of an OS (10.2, 10,3, 10.4...). You get lots of neat new stuff that you may want. If you don't think you want it, don't buy the damn thing. If you do, you're supporting Apple's OS division in making the world's best OS. Ever been to an airport with your powerbook and started Exposé-ing things? People dig that!

When you lead the way, it takes longer to cut the trail that others eventually follow.

If you have a problem - go follow Microsoft, and wait another 3 years for a significant update, or go follow Dell, and get predictably boring updates because they don't do anything very surprising.

Just quit complaining every time Apple releases something new, or that it's not as cheap as Walmart.
I'm glad Apple released updates, although they are strange. I think the reason for the oddball update is because Apple's changing their method for releasing product updates and we are seeing the manifestations of that transition.

dopefiend
Jun 9, 2004, 08:41 AM
If you have a problem - go follow Microsoft, and wait another 3 years for a significant update, or go follow Dell, and get predictably boring updates because they don't do anything very surprising.

Just quit complaining every time Apple releases something new, or that it's not as cheap as Walmart.

If you don't like it, don't read it. :mad:

Mr. Anderson
Jun 9, 2004, 08:44 AM
If you don't like it, don't read it. :mad:

Its not a matter of not reading it - pretty much everyone finds out about the new release eventually. Sooner for those ready to buy a new machine.

And this happens every time a new release comes out....blah...

So now lets get the hype going for the G5 iMac at WWDC.... :rolleyes:

its a never ending cycle

D

jxyama
Jun 9, 2004, 09:19 AM
well, unlike /. where you have some control on what you read via mod points, at MR, everyone and anyone has equal chance to express their views.

many of them will differ from yours and some may seem ridiculous/stupid/etc.

take it as they are. those messages aren't personal. they are just people expressing their opinions. in some sense, aren't you being hypocritical for expressing your view that others shouldn't express theirs?

if a thread gets filled with what you perceive to be ridiculous posts (like how i find the PM update thread), then you should stop reading or at least stop posting. chances are, you will not change people's opinions on an online forum - so take them as they are and learn about different perspectives.

if someone is incorrect, then you can gently correct them, but trying to stuff them with opinions and arguments are not very useful, imo.

edesignuk
Jun 9, 2004, 09:30 AM
At some point, you folks are going to have to realize that half the reason you're disappointed with every Apple announcement is because you got yourselves all built up by these rumor sites.

Take today's updated Powermacs. Jeez, a 25% speed increase! Liquid Cooling! Neat stuff, but if you're sitting here biting your nails for a 3 GHz, then sure, it seems bad, but you should also realize that in the world of engineering isn't like the world of suit tailoring, where you can easily predict when stuff that has never existed in the world before will be ready.
Steve-o said 3GHz, so funny enough people expect 3GHz. I can't see that it's wrong to complain about seemingly broken promises (though it is still just possible they could announce it at WWDC, I can't quite believe thay'd update twice quite so quickly).
If you read the complaints they're geared more towards the fact that Apple still charge $$$, and give you ****** all RAM and ***** graphics cards :rolleyes:

mainstreetmark
Jun 9, 2004, 09:33 AM
All good points of course, but I guess I'm trying to remind everyone that cutting edge technology is awash with disappointments, and that you can't compare what happened with what the ideal outcome was predicted to be.

All this "Come on, Apple, get with the program" stuff really kills my excitement I get when I see all new hardware come out. Apple is (one of) the best computer hardware engineering companies out there, and I guess I'd rather see comments like "Great job, though I'd prefer a better video card" over "What a crappy video card. Apple - you suck"

bousozoku
Jun 9, 2004, 09:34 AM
You can try all you like, but people aren't going to change. It's too much trouble. However, if you try to show them reality, they might attack you.

It doesn't matter how fantastic the product is, someone will find fault with it. It only turned out to be 3 GHz, it should have been 3.08 GHz. :D

I would suggest learning to laugh at the silliness of it all. It will help you make it through the day. ;)

blue&whiteman
Jun 9, 2004, 10:08 AM
it all comes down to the human obsession for consumption. in the western world most people are never content with anything. they always want better something. I think this way of living hinders your ability or desire to really ever enjoy life.

I have enough money saved to buy the entry level dual 1.8. its specs are more than enough to make me happy. its about 4-5x the system I have now.

MacRy
Jun 9, 2004, 11:05 AM
All good points of course, but I guess I'm trying to remind everyone that cutting edge technology is awash with disappointments, and that you can't compare what happened with what the ideal outcome was predicted to be.

All this "Come on, Apple, get with the program" stuff really kills my excitement I get when I see all new hardware come out. Apple is (one of) the best computer hardware engineering companies out there, and I guess I'd rather see comments like "Great job, though I'd prefer a better video card" over "What a crappy video card. Apple - you suck"

I totally agree with you dude. I work closely with a number of PC manufacturers and whenever there is an update to one of their product lines i'm usually like "Oh right, that's interesting....zzzzzz...z.z..z.z.z" But with Apple it's an eagerly anticipated event and regardless of whether it does all of the things that I want it to do I still welcome it.

Personally i'd love an iMac that does my ironing, cooks my dinner and satisfies me when my fiance is away but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon - plus someone would bound to complain that it cooked them the wrong kind of vegetables, ironed a crease in the front of their jeans and spat instead of swallowed. :)

michaelrjohnson
Jun 9, 2004, 11:27 AM
At some point, you folks are going to have to realize that half the reason you're disappointed with every Apple announcement is because you got yourselves all built up by these rumor sites.
...Just quit complaining every time Apple releases something new, or that it's not as cheap as Walmart.


I couldn't agree more.

On a side note:
What really irks me is people not reading the threads before they post. In an active thread like the PM Release thread, people post the same questions over and over... when they have both been answered before, and are *readily* available on Apple's pages on the product (i.e. Tech Spec pages). It drives me nuts.

bitfactory
Jun 9, 2004, 11:39 AM
whenever someone posts a message in the forums they see this message popup first - kind of like a license agreement. :D

agree 100%.

Krizoitz
Jun 9, 2004, 11:41 AM
if a thread gets filled with what you perceive to be ridiculous posts (like how i find the PM update thread), then you should stop reading or at least stop posting. chances are, you will not change people's opinions on an online forum - so take them as they are and learn about different perspectives.

But why should we just give in and let the whining continue?

My problem isn't so much with people who express concerns/complaints, as much as the fact that they don't even try and be reasonable about it.

It seems to me the only legitimate complaint about the PowerMac updates is the graphics card issue.

The proccesor thing wouldn't even be an issue if Steve hadn't made his 3Ghz promise and i'm sure he regrets it now, but stuff happened beyond his control.

I agree with bousozoku, it seems like people are NEVER happy. I think that even if Apple released a quad-proccesor 4Ghz G5 with 30" display for $999 people would find something to complain about. Heck look what happened when iLife became a paid product. People got upset because Apple was actually charging for software. It goes back to that whole something for nothing mentality that fuels the ptp file sharing thing.

Vlade
Jun 9, 2004, 12:14 PM
Isn't quit complaining and oxymoron? Anyways, I understand mac zealots, and there just as bad as PC zealots, so I just don't read as much stuff here as I used to (its mostly just my buyers guide)

IJ Reilly
Jun 9, 2004, 12:17 PM
Personally, I plan on never being completely happy. High technology hardly ever works as well as it's supposed to work, and high technology companies always seem to over-promise and under deliver. Apple is no worse on this score, and probably a little bit better, so that's why I stick with their products. Still, it's not entirely our fault when we're disappointed.

bousozoku
Jun 9, 2004, 12:20 PM
But why should we just give in and let the whining continue?

My problem isn't so much with people who express concerns/complaints, as much as the fact that they don't even try and be reasonable about it.

It seems to me the only legitimate complaint about the PowerMac updates is the graphics card issue.

The proccesor thing wouldn't even be an issue if Steve hadn't made his 3Ghz promise and i'm sure he regrets it now, but stuff happened beyond his control.

I agree with bousozoku, it seems like people are NEVER happy. I think that even if Apple released a quad-proccesor 4Ghz G5 with 30" display for $999 people would find something to complain about. Heck look what happened when iLife became a paid product. People got upset because Apple was actually charging for software. It goes back to that whole something for nothing mentality that fuels the ptp file sharing thing.

We agree on something? That's cause for celebration. :)

We can complain about the complainers but then, they complain about us and where are we at the end of the day? Tired of all the complaints. :p

It simply ridiculous to bother with them. It seems to me that they've all had it much too easy and that they've gotten everything too quickly and it leads to people who act like 5 year olds. It's the damned microwave ovens and fast food--they ruining the world! :D Everyone expects everything--now!

thedoc1111
Jun 9, 2004, 12:27 PM
I agree that Entry Level Model is quite good value.

However, the next rev of the G5 needs (especially at the High end):

Onboard Hardware RAID 5
4 Hard Drive Bays
PCI Express
Preferably 2 Optical Drive Bays

All these things are present on high end PC Systems for much less! I wouldn't buy a PC, but still …

As I say, the low end model is still very good, but the lack of PCI Express really dates a £2000 high end system.

I'm sorry, but the complaints will continue.

virividox
Jun 9, 2004, 01:11 PM
i guess we are hyped because of the promises when the first macs were announced

mainstreetmark
Jun 9, 2004, 01:57 PM
I've seen that "Promise" word all over the place, except for in the original announcement.

It's like the whole "Steve lied about 100 million iTMS tracks". I'm sure Steve wanted to hit 100M songs by now. Sometimes people confuse "promises" with "goals", although the 3GHz claim was stated in such a way as to make it sound factual, rather than a goal (Marketing gone wild), but was still not a promise, and because their vendor was unable to tackle this monumental 90nm problem in 9 months is hardly worth all this apple/ibm bashing.

It's like all these whiners are going to those schools where the sports have no winners and loosers to, you know, protect their feelings, so they wind up unable to deal with disappointment in the real world.

How many of you guys have the $3k sitting around waiting for a 3GHz anyways?

The world ain't perfect, and sometimes you have to look at your screen and notice that you're using OSX which is quite wonderful, and only worth complaining about in the same way that people complain that Ferraris have no built in air conditioner.

And you guys are all right: i'm complaining about complainers, which is ironic.

mainstreetmark
Jun 9, 2004, 04:16 PM
Now there are people in the iTunes 4.6 thread complaining that the download is 8 megs or whatever. I mean come on...

edesignuk
Jun 9, 2004, 04:24 PM
Now there are people in the iTunes 4.6 thread complaining that the download is 8 megs or whatever. I mean come on...
Now that is stupid, who cares how big an update is?????

jxyama
Jun 9, 2004, 04:35 PM
well, it does bother me to see people basically coming forward about not buying this update because it's not good enough, they are going to wait for G6 (!), etc. etc.

i've figured out long ago that no matter what happens, someone will complain. heck if the specs are perfectly acceptable, they will complain about the shipping! or the price!

so i don't bother paying attention to those any more. if they are going to waste their life waiting, waiting and waiting, it's their problem. in the mean time, i've enjoyed my 12" PB for over a year - no amount of updating can make up for the productive stuff i did on that machine for the time i've had it!

mainstreetmark
Jun 9, 2004, 04:48 PM
yeah, I know, but my peeve this morning and with Airport Express the other day was that I wanted to read about the new stuff, like how people thought the audio on AE was going to work, but instead it turned into 5 pages of "What? This isn't even available until July? Come on you stupid computer company" or how much it sucked because it has it's own D/A and that it didn't support professional grade 30 speaker systems and that the optical port looked too much like a regular headphone port (despite it's well documented dual nature), so I quietly left the thread (and my excitement over that unique product). Then the PowerMac thing came out with liquid cooling and a very respectable 25% speed increase and an all Dual lineup and *Blam*, pages and pages about how Apple is a big piece of crap because of some reason or other, and every complainer complained about the same 2 things (being Vid and 3GHz).

At least read the thread to make sure your complaint isn't already well complained about before posting.

So, our little thread here has kind of made me sadly realize that MacRumors may not be the place to talk about all the neat new stuff and what it can do and when we can get our paws on it, and that sucks.

bousozoku
Jun 9, 2004, 04:58 PM
Now that is stupid, who cares how big an update is?????

There are still people on dialup, but even I didn't complain about anything under 20 MB when I was on dialup.

ChrisH3677
Jun 9, 2004, 05:05 PM
I'm with mainstreetmark. One of the big disappointments since switching last year, was finding how much negativity there is towards Apple by Apple users. And most of it unjustified. In Wintel land you get the impression from Mac users that Apple is perfect, yet once you switch, you get the impression that they're one of the most incompetent companies on the planet.

I like MacRumors but get frustrated reading threads that are polluted by posts from folks who seem to know better than Apple. Yet I've never seen one of them from an industry insider...

Very few plans, projects or promises are delivered as envisaged or on time - whether it's building a model aeroplane as a 10 year old or landscaping your garden at 40... or companies delivering technology updates.

If I'd read MacRumors forums before switching, it would have given me such a bad impression of Apple, I probably wouldn't have switched.

abhishekit
Jun 9, 2004, 05:10 PM
yeah, I know, but my peeve this morning and with Airport Express the other day was that I wanted to read about the new stuff, like how people thought the audio on AE was going to work, but instead it turned into 5 pages of "What? This isn't even available until July?
.
how can anyone criticize airport express.when I found out about airport express, i thought that it was a perfect product. like the iPod. And it is. i was so excited, that i called up all my windows freinds, and told them how absolutely amazing it was..and really, every single one of them was overawed.
same with g5, i told my roommate today that now we have dual 2.5G with liquid cooling..and he was totally wow..
even if it doesn't hit 3 G, it will soon, whats the big deal.. :rolleyes:

d-fi
Jun 9, 2004, 07:57 PM
I was going to start a thread like this too, but i was beat to the punch ;)

I first read about the updates for powermacs on slash dot and over there the responce was mostly positive. People had some complantes about the standard video card and the lack of neon lights ;) But the general feeling was cool liquid-cooling, faster computer, maybe we'll be lucky enough to get liquid cooling standard in a year or two.

So when i went to look up macrumors i thought that people would be mostly positive about the update. I knew a few people would be up in arms about not hitting 3ghz. But i didn't expect the level of negitivity about the whole update. Yea Steve-o said we'd hit 3ghz but really IBM droped the ball not apple. Last i checked apple doesn't make their own computer chips. They are in the same boat as us reliant on others for some of their poducts.

I guess i don't have much of a point other then why cry about what you didn't get rather then be happy about what you got.

Crikey
Jun 9, 2004, 08:26 PM
. Yea Steve-o said we'd hit 3ghz but really IBM droped the ball not apple. Last i checked apple doesn't make their own computer chips. They are in the same boat as us reliant on others for some of their poducts.

I'd say Steve made the mistake in making public projections that depended on a smooth and quick technical transition for IBM that is really a tricky, tricky thing -- going to 90nm is proving problematic for everybody, and combining that with the tweaks in the 970FX . . . Steve should have known better than to make the prediction, and anyone who has watched technology carefully for more than a couple of years saw a big potential for what happened.

I'm with the poster who started the thread. Sure, freedom of speech, yadda yadda. But this 3GHz thing was so obviously coming, so why get puerile about it? There is a whole lot of negativity toward Apple (as others have said) and unless you're someone who got a faulty G3 iBook or iPod Mini, or an AlBook with white spots on the screen, or a G5 that makes screeching sounds in your professional FireWire audio interface, what have you really got to bitch about? You've got the coolest computer around, running the best software. In the unlikely event you were going to upgrade but now have to wait because you just need a 3GHz machine, look for it around January. Big deal!


Crikey

musicpyrite
Jun 9, 2004, 08:47 PM
...and you guys act like Apple is over there in California picking their noses, laughing all the way to the bank.

You've mistaken Apple for Gates.

i think all this updates and stuff is really cool.

and a 500MHz speed increase is really good :cool:

if i had the bling bling to get a 2.5, I'd snap one up in no time.

if the jump from Jaguar to Panther is the same as Panther to Tiger, I wouldn't mind spending $200 on 10.4.


god...picking their noses....i gotta remember that one.... ;)

bousozoku
Jun 9, 2004, 09:09 PM
...
if the jump from Jaguar to Panther is the same as Panther to Tiger, I wouldn't mind spending $200 on 10.4.
...


Would you do that even if it's only $129? If so, let me know and I'll be glad to make some money. :D Now, that's a positive Apple experience.

blue&whiteman
Jun 9, 2004, 10:42 PM
Would you do that even if it's only $129? If so, let me know and I'll be glad to make some money. :D Now, that's a positive Apple experience.

he must be in Canada. osx costs 200 there.

Duff-Man
Jun 9, 2004, 10:57 PM
Duff-Man says...I am tired of all the complaining too....I have stopped reading all the threads in the news and page 2 sections....just too much....people are reacting like the 3ghz was the very first computer product that did not ship on time...you should know better...in this industry it happens all the time. how long did we wait for an os x compatible diskwarrior - the ship date for that slipped a few times...same with techtool pro 4...how many times has ATI missed ship dates on video cards? Cripes, this happens *so* often in this business you people should not be so surprised.....oh yeah!

FriarTuck
Jun 9, 2004, 11:16 PM
You gotta laugh when people talk about Steve Jobs' supposed RDF powers. Does anyone who complains about the RDF have any clue as to how short our attention span is? "What have you done for me lately, Steve?" is what we say 5 minutes after the keynote is finished.

Mac users are, by and large, generally more creative (dare I say "different") thinkers. Our highs are higher and our lows lower.

That's a nice way of saying we're a bit nutty all the way around. :p

bousozoku
Jun 9, 2004, 11:47 PM
he must be in Canada. osx costs 200 there.

For some reason, I was thinking that he was near Boston, MA. I must have mixed him up with another music pirate. :D