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LERsince1991
Jul 21, 2009, 03:49 PM
So I've decide its time to learn a better 3D modeling software package than Sketchup.

Would anyone be able to help me look at the options?

I'm running a Macbook, going to study architecture at uni so would be good for the program to be used in that industry so I have a head start.

Came across the following main apps for architecture but these are windows.
- Rhino, 3DS Mac, AutoCAD
others are maya and solidworks.

My current workflow is Sketchup to model -> Hypershot to render -> Photoshop to retouch and enhance.

P.S. Don't worry about the price I think I can get the software through my uni soon.

Luke.



juanm
Jul 21, 2009, 04:20 PM
I first learnt Rhino, and even though it was my first step in 3D, I found it very intuitive. In about 10 hours I could do some relatively complex modeling. It's good for NURBS, and more generally speaking, designing, and that's it. Don't think of Rhino as a substitute for Autocad.

NStocks
Jul 21, 2009, 04:43 PM
So I've decide its time to learn a better 3D modeling software package than Sketchup.

Would anyone be able to help me look at the options?

I'm running a Macbook, going to study architecture at uni so would be good for the program to be used in that industry so I have a head start.

Came across the following main apps for architecture but these are windows.
- Rhino, 3DS Mac, AutoCAD
others are maya and solidworks.

My current workflow is Sketchup to model -> Hypershot to render -> Photoshop to retouch and enhance.

P.S. Don't worry about the price I think I can get the software through my uni soon.

Luke.

I've had (little) experience with ArchiCAD, which to me is more advanced that AutoCAD, which isn't Mac compatible anyway... but I still prefer ArchiCAD

You can get a 1 year free Education version of ArchiCAD as you are a Student ArchiCAD Education Registration (https://eduregistration.graphisoft.com/)


I'd be interested to see what Uni offers/say as most of the work there was done through AutoCAD.

P.S This is my very first ArchiCAD drawing, drawn completely from scratch and to scale. It's out Bungalow which we’ve recently inherited and had extended. It's somewhat basic but you MUST start to learn the basics before you go into creating curtain walls, multi-stories etc.

LeviG
Jul 21, 2009, 05:10 PM
You have my pm so no point repeating it all here but I'll add this.

Your uni (on architecture course - especially at Lincoln) will be windows only, end of, no buts no other options. There is NO architecture course in the UK that I know of that uses anything other than autocad, most use 3ds Max and some may now be using Revit/Viz. These are ALL windows only software. Stress analysis programs are windows only too.

Photoshop is windows too so even that part is covered.

snickelfritz
Jul 21, 2009, 06:23 PM
Blender.

tweekskratch
Jul 21, 2009, 10:28 PM
Blender.
Blender is great. Plus it's open source (and free). If you want something commercial go with Cinema 4D of Maya. C4D is way easier to learn for a beginner though, IMO. Maya is really extensive, and you may not need all that it has to offer.

Blender or C4D

THX1139
Jul 21, 2009, 11:10 PM
So I've decide its time to learn a better 3D modeling software package than Sketchup.

Would anyone be able to help me look at the options?


Why would you run anything other than what your university wants you to use? And for what it's worth, isn't archiCad the industry standard for architecture?

opeter
Jul 22, 2009, 04:22 AM
And for what it's worth, isn't archiCad the industry standard for architecture?

Nope. Only for some visualizations. I'm not an architect, but my friend is. They are using almost exclusivelly Autodesk products.

tweekskratch
Jul 22, 2009, 07:16 AM
Nope. Only for some visualizations. I'm not an architect, but my friend is. They are using almost exclusivelly Autodesk products.

If they are using Autodesk, I would probably go that route? My friend does interior renders with C4D, but that's just interiors. :)

LERsince1991
Jul 22, 2009, 01:50 PM
This is from Lincoln Uni

"We have Adobe Creative Suite 4 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere,
Flash, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Fireworks, After Effects), ArchiCAD,
AutoCAD, Ecotect, 3dsmax Design, Rhino, Sketchup, Microstation, MS
Office and many other packages."

I'm thinking stick with an AutoDesk product, probably AutoCAD.
I have tried 3DSMax for like a month or so ages ago and found it very different and quite hard to grasp.

I'm going to see if I can get an AutoCAD copy for a few months use.
Thanks for the help.

P.S. I will also ask about Maya and 3DS Max but I feel Maya will be too hard from what I've heard.

tweekskratch
Jul 22, 2009, 02:31 PM
maya is a lot like 3dsMax. Ultimately I say stick with something that the Architecture industry uses.

Barnum
Jul 22, 2009, 03:08 PM
The makers of Form•Z have a new modeler out called Bonzai3D which is similar to Sketchup, except that it also does nurbs. It is unfortunately a new product so I don't know if they got rid of all the bugs.

EmperorDarius
Jul 22, 2009, 04:26 PM
IMO Cinema 4D (especially the architecture edition) and ArchiCAD make a great combo, especially with this out:

http://www.maxon.net/en/news/singleview-default/article/archicad-12-connected-with-cinema-4ds-best-in-class-modeling-software.html

Only because most of the people use AutoCAD, it doesn't mean you have to use that too.
For instance, if you find Maya difficult to use, you should really take a look at C4D. It's very powerful yet very easy to use (And less RAM hungry too).

LeviG
Jul 22, 2009, 04:40 PM
IMO Cinema 4D (especially the architecture edition) and ArchiCAD make a great combo, especially with this out:

http://www.maxon.net/en/news/singleview-default/article/archicad-12-connected-with-cinema-4ds-best-in-class-modeling-software.html

Only because most of the people use AutoCAD, it doesn't mean you have to use that too.
For instance, if you find Maya difficult to use, you should really take a look at C4D. It's very powerful yet very easy to use (And less RAM hungry too).
But on a different view - why learn a program if it isn't being taught on your course (c4d) :confused:

The whole point of doing (for example) autocad and 3ds max is that you will be taught how to integrate the two together by the tutors supposedly, I say supposedly as this years exhibition (I went to see interior design and saw architecture too) from the final year architecture course (at lincoln) had zero 3ds max renders (just about all autocad plans and elevations) and iirc they only bought 3ds max this year because they had the money left over :rolleyes:

Genghis Khan
Jul 22, 2009, 11:06 PM
This is from Lincoln Uni

"We have Adobe Creative Suite 4 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere,
Flash, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Fireworks, After Effects), ArchiCAD,
AutoCAD, Ecotect, 3dsmax Design, Rhino, Sketchup, Microstation, MS
Office and many other packages."

That list conforms with what I would've said anyway. It doesn't matter what program you use, so long as the images you produce at the end of the process get the point across during a presentation.

The only reason you'd choose to stick with one is because that's what you'll be using in the workplace when you graduate. For that purpose, AutoCAD is the only one that serves a purpose (as it's used in most offices). After that, it depends what office you want to go into.


To keep it simple...
AutoCAD - A program for drawing plans (has a 3D function, but it's rubbish). The industry standard for years, although this looks less certain in the future.
ArchiCAD - A 3D modeling program with limited abilities. However, it's BIG advantage is that it will do the documentation for you once you're done.
Photoshop - A program for touching up photographs, making presentations e.t.c.
Illustrator - A program for making presentations, editing line drawings e.t.c.
3DS Max - A 3D modeling program that is great for animations. However, it's models aren't NURBS (i.e. the circles are made out of straight lines)
Rhino - A 3D modeling program. Uses NURBS and can create just about any shape you want.
Sketchup - A primitive 3D modeling program that's easy to learn. Despite it's primitive-ness, I still have friends who use it for presentations in 3rd year.
Microstation - I'm not quite sure the specifics of this, but I do know that alot of firms in Australia are changing to this.

I would recommend knowing AutoCAD and one of 3DS Max or Rhino (and Photoshop and Illustrator of course.

Designer Dale
Jul 23, 2009, 12:50 AM
Hi, Luke.

My suggestion is to get a descent PC desktop to supplement your Mac laptop once you go to school. All of the software that is prevalent in your chosen line of work is PC only. You will have to use Windows now or later, so why wait? Having a dedicated PC is the way to go. Just keep it off-line to avoid the associated issues that I have no grasp of.


Dale, who has never owned a Windows box...

Slippery Gimp
Jul 23, 2009, 08:33 AM
Or use a Mac running Windows via Bootcamp, that's what I do. The best of both worlds.

design-is
Jul 23, 2009, 09:27 AM
Or use a Mac running Windows via Bootcamp, that's what I do. The best of both worlds.

^ I agree with this. If you have a mac and don't want to fork out for a PC, Bootcamp is excellent.

I replaced a Pentium 4 2.8 desktop with my MacBook Pro and have had nothing but good experiences :)

LERsince1991
Jul 23, 2009, 02:02 PM
Thanks everyone! Great info here.

Oh btw I know how to use most of CS4 to a good enough degree to do work, couldn't live without it ;)

I'm using bootcamp now and I'm trying to get trials of AutoCAD, Rhino, 3DS Max and Maya to try them out. I probably won't have time to look at them all and my priority to learn them are:

AutoCAD
Rhino
3DS Max
Maya

I'll have a play with them all however. As stated my LeviG I want to stick to those programs so no blender, C4D etc... just because thats what will become useful at uni.

And seriously I'm not intending to get another computer, we've got 2 dells in my house that both are ridiculously crap... (we're free though through a business order so...) we have 2 Acer laptops that are better but still nothing compared to this beauty of a laptop :P Macbook, Bootcamp it is :P
The uni has a lot of computers handy all the time anyway, no need to spend more money.

Will let people know how I get on in about a couple of weeks (probably on AutoCAD)

Luke.

Slippery Gimp
Jul 23, 2009, 02:40 PM
Can you not find out what software they'll be using in the course and then learn that? That would be most sensible. We use Autocad at work, though some Microstation stuff is starting to creep in, and I must say I don't like it!

LERsince1991
Jul 23, 2009, 02:47 PM
Can you not find out what software they'll be using in the course and then learn that? That would be most sensible. We use Autocad at work, though some Microstation stuff is starting to creep in, and I must say I don't like it!

Yup, AutoCAD :)
But I still want to learn some others.
I saw some genius student when I was at an open day and he had used a lot of rhino (Rhino scripts?), his work was impressive.
Others had used sketchup, a lot of students were in the studio working on AutoCAD plans, didn't see any 3DS Max or Maya though.
Not sure what they render in though, I like hypershot and have a copy so I can always use that on my own back but I will see, I'm not sure what AutoCAD can do. Can it render?

LeviG
Jul 23, 2009, 03:11 PM
3ds max with finalrender (not much different to mental ray in my opinion) is what everyone I know uses for architectural renderings. Revit is starting to sneak in a bit more though.

Not saying it can't be done with others but its down to the integration of autodesk products.

LERsince1991
Jul 23, 2009, 03:26 PM
Ah that's what they use, I'll give it a go with Hypershot first then look into mental-ray, 3ds max finalrender etc...

Hypershot v2 will be better for architecture I've been told. (currently just gone to 1.9)

Designer Dale
Jul 23, 2009, 03:59 PM
I always thought a dedicated PC was the best way to deal with Windows, but then I have no out of classroom experience with MS, either.

Maya is a bit much for industrial design and architecture, in my book. It will run on Mac or Windows, but is at it's best under RedHat and other versions of Linux. It is industry standard for motion pictures and special effects. The only 3D software I have used is LightWave, but this is my best understanding of applications for 3D. LightWave builds good machines, 3D StudioMAX builds good video game characters and Maya excels with textures, gases and fluids.

I saw a demo of Maya in '02 and it was scary. It had the capability of understand rules of physics like gravity and I'm sure it has advanced considerably since the days it was owned by Alias|WaveFront.

It's $2000 to $4000 USD anyways...

Dale

LERsince1991
Jul 23, 2009, 04:08 PM
I always thought a dedicated PC was the best way to deal with Windows, but then I have no out of classroom experience with MS, either.

Maya is a bit much for industrial design and architecture, in my book. It will run on Mac or Windows, but is at it's best under RedHat and other versions of Linux. It is industry standard for motion pictures and special effects. The only 3D software I have used is LightWave, but this is my best understanding of applications for 3D. LightWave builds good machines, 3D StudioMAX builds good video game characters and Maya excels with textures, gases and fluids.

I saw a demo of Maya in '02 and it was scary. It had the capability of understand rules of physics like gravity and I'm sure it has advanced considerably since the days it was owned by Alias|WaveFront.

It's $2000 to $4000 USD anyways...

Dale

Well a dedicated PC would be a good way to go and then a laptop to take to class then a dedicated PC in the studios owned by the uni but theres no point. I'll have my laptop and their dedicated PC's anyway :)

Ah right thanks for the insight.
The way I see it is AutoCAD, Rhino and 3DS max are top of the list.
Maya might come in somewhere.
Price doesn't matter, I can get it through the uni for FREE.
Look here
(http://students.autodesk.com/)

Luke

LeviG
Jul 23, 2009, 05:25 PM
Designer Dale is a little off the mark with 3ds max. It was initially a character animation type program but it has evolved into a far more rounded application. It's well suited to both character animation and the more product/architectural (and in some respects automotive) fields too, theres even the 'design' version which is more orientated towards these users (additional 'image' tools). I use it for rendering product and architectural images.

I will say that I'm very much of the view that a system with a workstation gpu is a better option for max but it can be used with a geforce albeit with a slower screen refresh etc (this is the killer bit) than that which you would get with a quadro or firegl.

Designer Dale
Jul 23, 2009, 06:00 PM
Designer Dale is a little off the mark with 3ds max. It was initially a character animation type program but it has evolved into a far more rounded application. It's well suited to both character animation and the more product/architectural (and in some respects automotive) fields too, theres even the 'design' version which is more orientated towards these users (additional 'image' tools). I use it for rendering product and architectural images.

I will say that I'm very much of the view that a system with a workstation gpu is a better option for max but it can be used with a geforce albeit with a slower screen refresh etc (this is the killer bit) than that which you would get with a quadro or firegl.

Thanks for the correction, Levi. I don't have a lot of experience with 3D apps and was expecting to learn by going out on a limb.

Dale

Slippery Gimp
Jul 24, 2009, 01:18 AM
Well a dedicated PC would be a good way to go and then a laptop to take to class then a dedicated PC in the studios owned by the uni but theres no point. I'll have my laptop and their dedicated PC's anyway :)

Ah right thanks for the insight.
The way I see it is AutoCAD, Rhino and 3DS max are top of the list.
Maya might come in somewhere.
Price doesn't matter, I can get it through the uni for FREE.
Look here
(http://students.autodesk.com/)

Luke


Hmm...

Check out my other post as I wonder the same thing.


http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=751786

aurius
Jul 24, 2009, 02:53 AM
If you're looking at doing 3D on a Mac, don't overlook Luxology's modo 401 (www.luxology.com). It has the best workflow that I have ever seen, and it's learning curve is nowhere near as steep as Maya or even Blender. Other programs like Cinema4D may be a little more user-friendly to begin with, but modo promises much more potential when your skills improve as well.
It has a gorgeous renderer, and an amazing user community, and even though some feature sets may not be present, such as character animation, and dynamics, the next versions show much promise for next year.

And enough of my spiel, since as much as it sounds like it, I don't work for Luxology. :D

LERsince1991
Jul 27, 2009, 05:02 AM
Thanks everyone.

I've installed windows 7 via bootcamp and installed rhino 4.0, AutoCAD 2010, 3DS Max 2009 and maya on os x.
I'm in the process of going through and learning the basics in each of them. Rhino, and 3DS max look very similar, I'd imagine maya is also similar to them. AutoCAD looks alright to start learning in, nice ui and everything.

I'm going to try out AutoCAD first then rhino or maya then 3DS max. Really makes me appreciate how fast Google sketchup is in all respects :o

the vj
Jul 27, 2009, 08:20 AM
I am using Cinema 4D and I am so happy. In my school they had Maya and 3D studio and I was never able to create something I wanted. With Cinema 4D everything was so easy.

There is a great architech in my city who uses C4D and he even has some textures in the software under his name.

I know every 3D software has lots of potential today but C4D for me is amazing.

auhlixer
Aug 8, 2009, 10:21 PM
Also don't waste your time with rhino or autocad if you want to render also autocad's 3d workflow sucks it may be the best 2d cad program but not 3d

Genghis Khan
Aug 9, 2009, 03:52 AM
Also don't waste your time with rhino or autocad if you want to render also autocad's 3d workflow sucks it may be the best 2d cad program but not 3d

never render with Rhino of course :P but I don't know of a better program in which to model...

LeviG
Aug 9, 2009, 09:07 AM
autocad's 3d workflow sucks it may be the best 2d cad program but not 3d

Thats why autodesk also do revit, this is designed to integrate into an architects workflow (its basically autocad plus 3ds max) and it allows data to be moved between autocad and 3ds max.

If I was training for architecture now this is the program I would be learning to use.

I've been looking into it as an additional software tool for my work, its a damned powerful app, once you get to grips with it by the looks of things

missLA
Aug 15, 2009, 02:41 PM
just curious how running the 3dStudio Max was on your mac...any issues?

LERsince1991
Aug 15, 2009, 02:43 PM
on windows 7 via bootcamp - flawless, but I didn't use it intensively

-Blanco-
Aug 17, 2009, 05:28 PM
Nice to hear that 3dstudio max apparently works fine on a mac via bootcamp, that's what I plan to use when college starts back..
Just wondering if anyone here has expierience with Vectorworks? Sorry if it's slightly off topic but I figured since autocad was brought up...
A guy in my class uses it and produces impressive presentations. I've only ever used Autocad but was planning on making the switch if it ment producing similar quality work to autocad without having to run my new MBP in bootcamp...

ckmaes
Aug 17, 2009, 05:51 PM
Nice to hear that 3dstudio max apparently works fine on a mac via bootcamp, that's what I plan to use when college starts back..
Just wondering if anyone here has expierience with Vectorworks? Sorry if it's slightly off topic but I figured since autocad was brought up...
A guy in my class uses it and produces impressive presentations. I've only ever used Autocad but was planning on making the switch if it ment producing similar quality work to autocad without having to run my new MBP in bootcamp...

No expierience with Vectorworks but I'm using ArchiCAD and Maya, both in OSX... works fine.
Bootcamp has always worked fine for me, but I just felt like something was missing... Mac OS. I can't figure out what it is exactly, but it feels great to be able to produce 3d architectural renders using only Mac OS.

-Blanco-
Aug 17, 2009, 06:08 PM
Thanks ckmaes,
I've used ArchiCAD very briefly in windows but never really took the time to learn how to use it properly...But I'd be aiming to use bootcamp as little as possible so I will be giving it another shot! I've been planning on getting Maya aswel...have heard good things about it. At the end of the day I bought a Mac so I could use the OS, so the less bootcamp I needed to use the better, if possible..

jrichie
Aug 17, 2009, 08:54 PM
Hi Guys,

I think I am well placed to give you some advice as I have a set up like you are saying.

Also, I know Autocad, Revit, Vectorworks, 3DS max, very well indeed and a bit of Rhino.

I run my office on Vectorworks as it is very easy to use and does not impede on my design work at all [plus I have a great imagination so do not require 3d - that is just for clients....]. However, if I was recommending software to a student [I teach at uni also] I would say the following , in order of preference :

1. Revit - without a doubt the future [actually the present too!!!!], however it is more work for custom design. Great for commercial work and some residential.

2. Rhino - Coming to OSX and will give you freedom - not sure how it will import into Revit, but could work nicely.

3. 3DS Max - the staple of architectural rendering. This is the one to learn for this.

Hope this helps.

-Blanco-
Aug 18, 2009, 04:30 PM
Hi Guys,

I think I am well placed to give you some advice as I have a set up like you are saying.

Also, I know Autocad, Revit, Vectorworks, 3DS max, very well indeed and a bit of Rhino.

I run my office on Vectorworks as it is very easy to use and does not impede on my design work at all [plus I have a great imagination so do not require 3d - that is just for clients....]. However, if I was recommending software to a student [I teach at uni also] I would say the following , in order of preference :

1. Revit - without a doubt the future [actually the present too!!!!], however it is more work for custom design. Great for commercial work and some residential.

2. Rhino - Coming to OSX and will give you freedom - not sure how it will import into Revit, but could work nicely.

3. 3DS Max - the staple of architectural rendering. This is the one to learn for this.

Hope this helps.

It helps me!! Thanks:)