1984 has arrived, 20 years late.

[diamond geezer]

link (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4656.shtml)

You’re on your way to work in the morning and place a call on your wireless phone. As your call is relayed by the wireless tower, it is also relayed by another series of towers to a microwave antenna on top of Mount Weather between Leesburg and Winchester, Virginia and then beamed to another antenna on top of an office building in Arlington where it is recorded on a computer hard drive.

The computer also records you phone digital serial number, which is used to identify you through your wireless company phone bill that the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency already has on record as part of your permanent file.


A series of sophisticated computer programs listens to your phone conversation and looks for “keywords” that suggest suspicious activity. If it picks up those words, an investigative file is opened and sent to the Department of Homeland Security.


Congratulations. Big Brother has just identified you as a potential threat to the security of the United States because you might have used words like “take out” (as in taking someone out when you were in fact talking about ordering takeout for lunch) or “D-Day” (as in deadline for some nefarious activity when you were talking about going to the new World War II Memorial to recognize the 60th anniversary of D-Day).


If you are lucky, an investigator at DHS will look at the entire conversation in context and delete the file. Or he or she may keep the file open even if they realize the use of words was innocent. Or they may decide you are, indeed, a threat and set up more investigation, including a wiretap on your home and office phones, around-the-clock surveillance and much closer looks at your life.


Welcome to America, 2004, where the actions of more than 150 million citizens are monitored 24/7 by the TIA, the Terrorist Information Awareness (originally called Total Information Awareness) program of DARPA, DHS and the Department of Justice.


Although Congress cut off funding for TIA last year, the Bush Administration ordered the program moved into the Pentagon’s “black bag” budget, which is neither authorized nor reviewed by the Hill. DARPA also increased the use of private contractors to get around privacy laws that would restrict activities by federal employees.


Six months of interviews with security consultants, former DARPA employees, privacy experts and contractors who worked on the TIA facility at 3701 Fairfax Drive in Arlington reveal a massive snooping operation that is capable of gathering – in real time – vast amounts of information on the day to day activities of ordinary Americans.


Going on a trip? TIA knows where you are going because your train, plane or hotel reservations are forwarded automatically to the DARPA computers. Driving? Every time you use a credit card to purchase gas, a record of that transaction is sent to TIA which can track your movements across town or across the country.


Use a computerized transmitter to pay tolls? TIA is notified every time that transmitter passes through a toll booth. Likewise, that lunch you paid for with your VISA becomes part of your permanent file, along with your credit report, medical records, driving record and even your TV viewing habits.


Subscribers to the DirecTV satellite TV service should know – but probably don’t – that every pay-per-view movie they order is reported to TIA as is any program they record using a TIVO recording system.* If they order an adult film from any of DirecTV’s three SpiceTV channels, that information goes to TIA and is, as a matter of policy, forwarded to the Department of Justice’s special task force on pornography.


“We have a police state far beyond anything George Orwell imagined in his book 1984,” says privacy expert Susan Morrissey. “The everyday lives of virtually every American are under scrutiny 24-hours-a-day by the government.”


Paul Hawken, owner of the data information mining company Groxis, agrees, saying the government is spending more time watching ordinary Americans than chasing terrorists and the bad news is that they aren’t very good at it.


“It’s the Three Stooges go to data mining school,” says Hawken. “Even worse, DARPA is depending on second-rate companies to provide them with the technology, which only increases the chances for errors.”


One such company is Torch Concepts. DARPA provided the company with flight information on five million passengers who flew Jet Blue Airlines in 2002 and 2003. Torch then matched that information with social security numbers, credit and other personal information in the TIA databases to build a prototype passenger profiling system.


Jet Blue executives were livid when they learned how their passenger information, which they must provide the government under the USA Patriot Act, was used and when it was presented at a technology conference with the title: Homeland Security – Airline Passenger Risk Assessment.


Privacy Expert Bill Scannell didn’t buy Jet Blue’s anger.


“JetBlue has assaulted the privacy of 5 million of its customers,” said Scannell. “Anyone who flew should be aware and very scared that there is a dossier on them.”


But information from TIA will be used the DHS as a major part of the proposed CAPSII airline passenger monitoring system. That system, when fully in place, will determine whether or not any American is allowed to get on an airplane for a flight.


JetBlue requested the report be destroyed and the passenger data be purged from the TIA computers but TIA refuses to disclose the status of either the report or the data.*


Although exact statistics are classified, security experts say the U.S. Government has paid out millions of dollars in out-of-court settlements to Americans who have been wrongly accused, illegally detained or harassed because of mistakes made by TIA. Those who accept settlements also have to sign a non-disclosure agreement and won’t discuss their cases.


Hawken refused to do business with DARPA, saying TIA was both unethical and illegal.


"We got a lot of e-mails from companies – even conservative ones – saying, ‘Thank you. Finally someone won’t do something for money,’" he adds.


Those who refuse to work with TIA include specialists from the super-secret National Security Agency in Fort Meade, MD. TIA uses NSA’s technology to listen in on wireless phone calls as well as the agency’s list of key words and phrases to identify potential terrorist activity.


“I know NSA employees who have quit rather than cooperate with DARPA,” Hawken says. “NSA’s mandate is to track the activities of foreign enemies of this nation, not Americans.”


© Copyright 2004 by Capitol Hill Blue


I'm so glad I'm not American, and live in a proper democracy.

[dopefiend]

link (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4656.shtml)



I'm so glad I'm not American, and live in a proper democracy.

TERESA HAMPTON & DOUG THOMPSON are paranoid :rolleyes:

And Im glad your not an American either :p

[mactastic]

TERESA HAMPTON & DOUG THOMPSON are paranoid

Are you saying this isn't happening, or that it is happening and you aren't worried about it?

[dopefiend]

Are you saying this isn't happening, or that it is happening and you aren't worried about it?

Little of column A...Little of column B ;)

[mactastic]

Little of column A...Little of column B ;)

Well I'll guarantee that it's happening. Two professors of mine were involved in this kind of information gathering stuff and I got a few lectures on how computers can sift through the mountains of data necessary to make these systems work. It's still in an experimental stage, but it will be a reality within a decade.

On the flip side the consumer applications of this will be nice too. Imagine a super smart search engine capable of searching the web contextually. No more 7 billion hits when you search for something. Sort of like an Ask Jeeves that understands you and can answer correctly. Or smart software that can sort through your emails (some people get thousands a day) for the ones you need, kind of like a secretary would do with your messages. Software that can keep everyone connected during something like 9/11 for the different public agencies. Some of this stuff is available now, some is under development. It's not a matter of if, but when. The only thing to do is make sure the rules are in place to prevent it's misuse.

Unfortunately I don't trust the Bush administration to set an environment where those rules are followed.

[Thanatoast]

Little of column A...Little of column B ;)You realize, of course, that statement is nonsensical.

[pooky]

This country scares me more and more every day.

I find myself wondering each day at work whether I'll do something to set off a homeland security alarm. Today I asked a website the value of 10,000,000 Swedish Crowns (curious as to the current value of a Nobel Prize), then I did a search for ammonium nitrate (fertilizer for an experiment in the greenhouse), then I did a google search for "kill office assistant" (I wanted to find a way to demolish in as grisly a way as possible that irritating little MS office paperclip).

Under TIA I'm guilty of attempted currency laundering, building a bomb, and conspiracy to commit murder. That's a lot of time in jail for an uneventful day at the office.

[dopefiend]

If your not doing anything illegal, then there is nothing for them to find. Who cares :p

[zimv20]

If your not doing anything illegal, then there is nothing for them to find. Who cares :p
anyone who cares about the constitution, i'd say. you're (the contraction of "you" and "are") more than welcome to give up your own rights, but don't tell me when i should surrender mine.

maybe you'll understand when you actually have something to lose, eh?

[dopefiend]

maybe you'll understand when you actually have something to lose, eh?

And what exactly is there to lose?

Oh god, the government knows what Im doing. :eek:

Big freaking deal...

[dopefiend]

Privacy is overrated ;) :p

[LethalWolfe]

Privacy is overrated ;) :p


I agree.


That's why I'm going to work nekkid tomorrow. ;)


Lethal

[Sayhey]

I've heard these rumors for decades. The NSA is supposed to have all these supercomputers listening for code words. I don't believe it, but I also don't rule it out. As someone who does value my constitutional rights (something you might take up, dopefiend) I'd like to know how wiretap authority is granted for every phone capable of being tapped into. There is that little thing called the Fourth Amendment.

diamond geezer (aka Pinto), I've got to make it to New Zealand sometime and see this democracy you talk of. All I've ever heard is that it is a wonderful place.

[Savage Henry]

I agree.


That's why I'm going to work nekkid tomorrow. ;)


I've been doing that for years, colleague soon tire of it, despite the different dance I do each morning. :(

I think all this type of paranoia hype is one part garbage and one part useless, but I'd certainly be able to value my privacy if I lost it entirely.

[Thanatoast]

Privacy is overrated ;) :pthen i suppose you won't mind being the first citizen to volunteer to have every room in your house outfitted with cameras, just to make sure you're not doing anything sneaky. nothing to hide, right?

[dopefiend]

then i suppose you won't mind being the first citizen to volunteer to have every room in your house outfitted with cameras, just to make sure you're not doing anything sneaky. nothing to hide, right?

I wouldn't mind at all. Not one thing I need to keep hidden or be sneaky about. ;)

But I wouldn't be the first. Those set ups are all over the net :p

[kettle]

And what exactly is there to lose?

Oh god, the government knows what Im doing. :eek:

Big freaking deal...

In any normal lifetime this probably wouldn't be a problem.

One day an individual decides they would like to stand up and be counted through legitimate democratic processes. If an individual were to be successful at becoming an opposition, their "File" could and would be quickly found and used to make that individuals stand within democracy very predictable indeed.

I believe that if an individual were to be rather successful in their stand against the controllers of the day, not only would their activities become predictable they would in fact become controllable. The extreme case would be for the individual to find that the controllers of the day had evidence to prove actions that had not happened in reality but only in information fabrication terms, of course the fabrication would be undetectable because the majority rely on the same data for beneficial purposes. It will not be questioned.

So generally, don't be paranoid, but don't pretend that this won't happen or doesn't happen. 99.5% of population would never have their data monitored, that's why there will never be any objection to these activities.
The day you poke your head out above the rest of the daisies, your data will be accessed.

flame away

[medea]

Quick way around that, buy those no contract pre-paid phones and cards.

[wwworry]

I think all this type of paranoia hype is one part garbage and one part useless, but I'd certainly be able to value my privacy if I lost it entirely.

Well we have seen how the "not-paranoid" part has shifted from:
"the government is not watching everything I do"

to

"the government will not do anything with all the info they have on me"

[mactastic]

If your not doing anything illegal, then there is nothing for them to find. Who cares :p

I suppose you wouldn't mind giving up your 2nd Amendment rights too?

[Savage Henry]

"the government will not do anything with all the info they have on me"

I tend to find that the Government do what they want to meet pre-determined agendum whether they have information or not.

I think businesses and retailers have much more to gain from understanding my habits and motives

[Lyle]

One such company is Torch Concepts. DARPA provided the company with flight information on five million passengers who flew Jet Blue Airlines in 2002 and 2003. Torch then matched that information with social security numbers, credit and other personal information in the TIA databases to build a prototype passenger profiling system.Wow, Torch Concepts is a company here in Huntsville. I was wondering what they did. ;)

[Lyle]

If your (sic) not doing anything illegal, then there is nothing for them to find. Who cares?anyone who cares about the constitution, i'd say. you're (the contraction of "you" and "are") more than welcome to give up your own rights, but don't tell me when i should surrender mine.Well said. I've had this same "I have nothing to hide, so why does it matter?" conversation with my wife a number of times and I'm still not sure that I've convinced her why our privacy rights are so important. Ironically, it's been movies like "The Net" (http://imdb.com/title/tt0113957/) that go a long way towards bridging this gap, even if they occasionally play fast and loose with the facts. ;)

[Desertrat]

The NSA's "Echelon" capture of all electronic transmissions has been discussed on the web numerous times. There are three receiving stations. One in the US, one in England, and the third in either Australia or New Zealand; I disremember.

It's not "Web BS"; it's real.

The U.S. "right of privacy" is "not violated" because US transmissions are captured by the English government's receivers and the "pertinent conversations" are then "given" to the U.S. Government. Pardon me if I'm dubious...

Be that as it may, the technology and capability exists and a major raison d'etre for government is the gathering of information--whether or not it's truly useful. (Remember the questions on the Census long form?)

Sure, "I have nothing to hide," is just fine--if nobody gets suspicious of something you said that you thought was innocuous. "Oh, but that's a code!" is good enough for some prosecutors. Heck, look how often folks right here on this forum give statements a wrong meaning or intent.

You've never, in a teleconwith some friend, commented, "I'd like to kill that SOB!" as merely a vent? Or, if not kill, perpetrate some sort of major harm? Yet, no real intent beyond blowing off steam?

Regardless of innocence, how about the concept of "Mind your own (bleeping) business, not mine!"

'Rat

[zimv20]

i would think anyone who calls himself "dopefiend" has at least one activity he would want to hide from the feds.

[dopefiend]

i would think anyone who calls himself "dopefiend" has at least one activity he would want to hide from the feds.

Don't judge a book by its forum name :p

I hate all drugs, including marijuana ;)

[Abstract]

Well we have seen how the "not-paranoid" part has shifted from:
"the government is not watching everything I do"

to

"the government will not do anything with all the info they have on me"

Hehe.

"We're not watching everything you do" ---> "We're watching some of the stuff that you do, but only the parts that are necessary for security" ---> "We're watching everything you do, and we're selling your info to ad companies." :p

God Bless America.

[mactastic]

I hate all drugs, including marijuana ;)

Even antibiotics? Chemotherapy drugs? You hate caffeine? Morphine for battlefield use? I suppose you think surgery should be done sans anesthesia?

Or would you like to modify your statement?

[dopefiend]

Even antibiotics? Chemotherapy drugs? You hate caffeine? Morphine for battlefield use? I suppose you think surgery should be done sans anesthesia?

Or would you like to modify your statement?

Don't be simple. You know what I meant.

[zimv20]

Don't be simple. You know what I meant.
you mean you hate all illegal drugs?

[mactastic]

Don't be simple. You know what I meant.

IOW you would like to modify your statement? I take you at your word. You said you hate all drugs.

[dopefiend]

you mean you hate all illegal drugs?

We have a winner :p

[zimv20]

We have a winner :p
so we have someone who has no expectation of privacy from the government and allows that government to make decisions for him regarding how he treats his own body.

you are a true neo-american.

me, i'm an old-style american. i like my privacy and make my own decisions.

[dopefiend]

Lets see....current illegal drugs = bad....Darn really missing out on that. Darn government :rolleyes:

If the government wants to watch me 24/7 so be it. They won't see much...Me working, being with the girlfriend, watching tv...day after day. Im sure they will get bored after a while and move on :p

[mactastic]

Lets see....current illegal drugs = bad....Darn really missing out on that. Darn government :rolleyes:

If the government wants to watch me 24/7 so be it. They won't see much...Me working, being with the girlfriend, watching tv...day after day. Im sure they will get bored after a while and move on :p


Are you willing to give up your 2nd and 5th amendment rights so easily too?

[dopefiend]

Are you willing to give up your 2nd and 5th amendment rights so easily too?

Nah, its just the privacy one I don't care about too much.

[mactastic]

Nah, its just the privacy one I don't care about too much.

Ah yes a 'cafeteria conservative' picking and choosing which sections of the constitution to follow....

[amnesiac1984]

Lets see....current illegal drugs = bad....Darn really missing out on that. Darn government :rolleyes:


and how did you come to that conclusion?, Oh I see, law and government can NEVER be wrong can they.
:rolleyes:

[dopefiend]

and how did you come to that conclusion?, Oh I see, law and government can NEVER be wrong can they.
:rolleyes:

Common sense and a deep education. ;)

[mactastic]

Common sense and a deep education. ;)

So by your reasoning alcohol = good, marijuana = bad? Nicotine = good, oxycontin = good, khat = bad?

[takao]

and how did you come to that conclusion?, Oh I see, law and government can NEVER be wrong can they.
:rolleyes:

*cough* hurrah-patriotism *cough*

[dopefiend]

So by your reasoning alcohol = good, marijuana = bad? Nicotine = good, oxycontin = good, khat = bad?

Well, thats kind of why I said drugs in general at first. I'm not going to compile a list here though ;)

[zimv20]

and LSD, once good, now bad. and MDMA, once good, then bad, now sometimes good. and mescaline, bad for most, but good for those w/ certain religious beliefs.

yeah, nice system.

[mactastic]

Well, thats kind of why I said drugs in general at first. I'm not going to compile a list here though ;)

You can't really believe nicotine and alcohol are good for you, can you?

[dopefiend]

You can't really believe nicotine and alcohol are good for you, can you?

No, I don't. Those would be harmful drugs ;)

[mactastic]

No, I don't. Those would be harmful drugs ;)

Yet they are legal, and by your stated logic, good.
Do you advocate a repeal of the 21st Amendment?

[dopefiend]

Yet they are legal, and by your stated logic, good.

:rolleyes: Where do I say that legal drugs are good?

[zimv20]

Don't judge a book by its forum name :p

then what else could your name possibly mean?

[mactastic]

:rolleyes: Where do I say that legal drugs are good?

Well you started off saying all drugs are bad, then retracted that to say that only illegal drugs are bad. Now it appears it's not that simplistic, is it?

[dopefiend]

Well you started off saying all drugs are bad, then retracted that to say that only illegal drugs are bad. Now it appears it's not that simplistic, is it?

Any drugs that are illegal and of nonmedicinal use fall into the category I'm talking about. (god I hope I don't have to go into this even more)

[mactastic]

Any drugs that are illegal and of nonmedicinal use fall into the category I'm talking about. (god I hope I don't have to go into this even more)

You realize that there is much debate about which drugs have medicinal value right? And that the military uses drugs that are illegal for civilians?

It's not as black and white as you would like to think.

[dopefiend]

It's not as black and white as you would like to think.

Your killing me, lol.

[mactastic]

Your killing me, lol.

Do you disagree?

[dopefiend]

Do you disagree?

Yes. I know which drugs will serve as medicinal value to me and which won't.

edit: little bolding was needed :p

[mactastic]

Yes. I know which drugs will serve as medicinal value to me and which won't.

edit: little bolding was needed :p

But why should your views about drugs affect me?

[dopefiend]

But why should your views about drugs affect me?

ok, Im sorry. I'm totally lost now. :(

I have no idea why my views should affect you.

[mactastic]

ok, Im sorry. I'm totally lost now. :(

I have no idea why my views should affect you.

Well you started off saying catagorically that all illegal drugs were bad. Now your backpedaling even further and saying that you only meant to say which drugs are bad for you, (do you have a pharmacology degree by the way?) which is in no way what you started out saying. Yet you seem to know which constitutional rights are good for all of us.

[dopefiend]

(do you have a pharmacology degree by the way?) which is in no way what you started out saying. Yet you seem to know which constitutional rights are good for all of us.


Oh dear god man!

First of all, no I do not have a pharmy degree(girlfriend is in the middle of getting one though, so if I ever have any questions :p )


Second, all illegal drugs are bad. You cannot name one illegal drugs that doesn't have some kind of terrible side effect. That is bad in my book ;)

Yet you seem to know which constitutional rights are good for all of us.

I never claimed to know which rights are good for all. I was simply saying that I don't care too much about the privacy one :rolleyes:

[mactastic]

Second, all illegal drugs are bad. You cannot name one illegal drugs that doesn't have some kind of terrible side effect. That is bad in my book ;)


Then why does the Air Force hand out speed to pilots? Is that bad?

What about perscription drugs? Illegal for casual use but legal otherwise? All bad?

ALL drugs have side effects.

[dopefiend]

Then why does the Air Force hand out speed to pilots? Is that bad?

What about perscription drugs? Illegal for casual use but legal otherwise? All bad?

Legally in small doses, it helps temporarily increase alertness and reduce fatigue. At higher doses is when it can cause terrible problems. I don't think they should be giving it to pilots though.

[mactastic]

Legally in small doses, it helps temporarily increase alertness and reduce fatigue. At higher doses is when it can cause terrible problems. I don't think they should be giving it to pilots though.

IOW there is a grey area about what medicinal benefits are OK, and what side effects are acceptable?

[dopefiend]

ALL drugs have side effects.

Well of course, but there is a difference in terrible, death causing side effects and a case of the runs ;)

[Desertrat]

DF, you load up a bunch of Go-Boom in a B2 and fly to Iraq and back, coffee ain't gonna do the trick.

I've often wondered: If I take a 5mg Valium and my cramped muscles relax and Life Is Good, that's okay. But if I take a 5mg Valium a week later just because I like the way it makes me feel, I should go to jail?

Oh well. We've created a system wherein cocaine is God's way of telling you that you have too much money...

'Rat

[Abstract]

Any drugs that are illegal and of nonmedicinal use fall into the category I'm talking about. (god I hope I don't have to go into this even more)

I know what he means. It doesn't take a genius.

Anyway, the constitution is there for a reason, despite the fact that the US government doesn't seem to care about what it says. Even if you don't think you need all of these rights, they still exist, and you have a right to have all of these things that it lists, whether you need them or not.

In some countries, people who want these rights can't have them. Your constitution is what makes your country (relatively) better than the worst countries out there.

[IIvan]

So Dopefiend... you think that the government knows what is best for you to put in your own body? I mean surely they know better than you whether you should abuse yourself or not right? If it is something that most people don't want to do then its ok for no one to be able to do it? i mean god... it really sucks when people choose to hurt themselves or experimanet or trip or whatever in private! ( i understand the good reasons for having traffic laws regarding drugs)

:confused:

[Thanatoast]

Yes. I know which drugs will serve as medicinal value to me and which won't.but you're willing to let the feds determine what does and does not go into your body? this combined with your willingness to ditch your civil liberties kind of worries me. :confused: :(

[amnesiac1984]

Second, all illegal drugs are bad. You cannot name one illegal drugs that doesn't have some kind of terrible side effect. That is bad in my book ;)


marijuana doesn't have any kind of 'terrible' side effect and if you think it does then you really need to rethink your 'DEEP' education.

Regardless of how you feel about drugs, don't you think it is a little selfish of you to sit there all comfortable with the laws because they suit you, but don't suit quite a few other people?

You have no right to tell me what I can put in my body and neither does your government, I welcome any informed advice you may be able to offer, but as long as it is only advice and not instruction. That goes the same for you two feds!

Gee I'm glad I don't live in the Land of the 'Free' and live somewhere where we at least have the impression of being slightly free.

[dopefiend]

marijuana doesn't have any kind of 'terrible' side effect and if you think it does then you really need to rethink your 'DEEP' education.


As long as you don't consider cancer a terrible side effect :rolleyes:

[amnesiac1984]

As long as you don't consider cancer a terrible side effect :rolleyes:

That depends, lung cancer is a risk not a definite side effect, and besides when I smoke with my vapourizer only pure THC crystal vapours are entering my lungs, these get transferred to my blood quite efficiently and leave no damage.

I'm far more at risk from daily smog than I am from vapourized THC crystals.

[screener]

As long as you don't consider cancer a terrible side effect :rolleyes:

Go suck on an exhaust pipe why don't ya.

[amnesiac1984]

Go suck on an exhaust pipe why don't ya.

True, and what if I wanted to ingest as opposed to smoke it, where's the risk in that or is obesity from the brownies a terrible side effect too?

[dopefiend]

That depends, lung cancer is a risk not a definite side effect, and besides when I smoke with my vapourizer only pure THC crystal vapours are entering my lungs, these get transferred to my blood quite efficiently and leave no damage.

I'm far more at risk from daily smog than I am from vapourized THC crystals.

Some of marijuana’s adverse health effects may occur because THC impairs the immune system’s ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited(16). In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors(17, 18).

(sourcelink (http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html)

Your not safe just using THC ;)

[Neserk]

Any drugs that are illegal and of nonmedicinal use fall into the category I'm talking about. (god I hope I don't have to go into this even more)

I have to warn you this is a pointless discussion. If you want to see where it goes there is a whole thread on marijuana use.

I have to stop there before I say somthing that might risk my getting banned ;)

Oh, and where were you when I needed you? :p

[diamond geezer]

(sourcelink (http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html)

Your not safe just using THC ;)

I wouldn't believe to much you get from a NIDA website. They don't have a "fair and Balanced" attitude to displaying findings. Their only job is to find studies that support their agenda.

Many of the studies they quote are known to be flawed.

I see there were no mention on THC's powerful anti-oxident and cancer fighting abilities.

[IIvan]

I wouldn't believe to much you get from a NIDA website. They don't have a "fair and Balanced" attitude to displaying findings. Their only job is to find studies that support their agenda.

Many of the studies they quote are known to be flawed.

I see there were no mention on THC's powerful anti-oxident and cancer fighting abilities.

I seem to remember a past study where mice were exposed to near lethal amounts of Marijuana (around 10,000 times a normal human dose) and suffered severe side effects. this was then reported as "smoking pot is dangerous to your health"

[amnesiac1984]

I have to warn you this is a pointless discussion. If you want to see where it goes there is a whole thread on marijuana use.

I have to stop there before I say somthing that might risk my getting banned ;)

Oh, and where were you when I needed you? :p

Indeed it is pointless, even if you can prove that it is a risky drug it won't change the fact that people should be allowed to put in their bodies what they wish.

We don't ban gasoline do we?