ability to stalk your child

[cpit]

I was just wondering if you all think this is as creepy and unnecessary as I do:

My whole family is on at&t, and a few months ago my parents (I'm a teen) got some feature where they can pin point my location at any time without my notification or permission. It's not that I want to hide anything from them, but this is just creepy and taking it too far. I feel like big brother is watching. Their excuse is so that if I ever lose my phone or go missing they can track it/me, but I just don't like that I can be found by them anywhere anytime with a few clicks. I'm not usually allowed to go anywhere without my cellphone, so I'm always tied to the grid. It's not that I want to abuse any freedom I do have - it's just that I want to HAVE some. Ya know, with the thing that people used to have called trust.

To all those people who always say "back in my day, we weren't lucky enough to have cellphones," well, I envy you, ya lucky ducks.

[jmann]

The ones who don't want to be found, try to hide. You can always turn off your phone, or put it into airplane mode. ;)

[jessica.]

Let's see. You have an expensive phone that provides such utility.

Big brother? Your parents. They have this right imho.
Permission? You don't get to give them permission. You're the child.

If you want your iPhone pay the price because I suspect you don't pay a dime towards your iPhone or the rest of your life.

There are ways around it and I applaud you doing it, but be prepared to pay the price.

You're a child and your parents aren't stalking you, they're keeping an eye on you.

[dukebound85]

minors have no rights to privacy and i would imagine as a parent, it would be great to know where your kids are for worry's sake

the world is not a nice place

[jackiecanev2]

Wirelessly posted (BB 8900: BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.250 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/301)

Maybe its just for their peace of mind. They might not want to know where you are just to check up on you, but to have it available in the event that something might happen. Most parents don't ask you to check in or keep your phone on you for fun, but to make sure that you're alive and well and within their watchful eye because they care. Trust me, it is a lot easier not to care than to expend the effort worrying and caring.

[jmann]

And they bought you that phone to keep track of you, not so you can text your friends play games etc. They have every right to do it.

[Macky-Mac]

hmmmmm....what is it you're doing that you don't want them to know about? :D

[rhsgolfer33]

Who paid for the phone and who pays for the service? Who's house do you live in? Who pays for your car/gas/insurance or drives you around? Etc. Until you can answer "me" or "my own" to all of those your parents can pretty much do as they see fit.

[Ntombi]

I'm with you, cpit: the fact that they can do it legally doesn't make it less creepy, especially if you've done nothing that warrants them keeping such a close eye on you all the darn time. I was a good kid, doing nothing untoward, and I would have found that really unsettling and it wouldn't have helped me have a trusting relationship with my parents.

If you've shown a propensity for getting into trouble or making bad decisions, I would probably take away your iPhone and substitute a Firefly ;) before I activated this option.

But I realize that different people have different views on such things, and, like others have said, they have every right to do it. You have to decide if having an iPhone is worth them keeping an eagle eye on you.

[Zombie Acorn]

Be an American and give up your phone for your right to privacy. Your parents will then miss the ability to contact you while you are out. Thats when you slide the deal to get the function turned off.

Kids these days, need everything spelled out for em. :rolleyes:

[LizKat]

The thread title sounds like an ad for the functionality offered by the carrier.

[Shotglass]

Every child has a right to privacy, but no child has a right to a phone.
If you want your privacy, give up your phone. Or, you know, just turn it off.

[Signal-11]

I'm of the opinion that although parents may have the right and these days, have the technical capability, it doesn't mean they should.

A part of growing up is not having your parents looking over your shoulder all the time. Some of the most screwed up kids I knew when I was a teenager were the ones with overbearing, overprotective parents who didn't let their kids get into the kind of trouble boys are supposed to get into at that age.

That said, seems to me that if this is a trust issue between a teen and his parents, he should take it up with his parents, not with a bunch of strangers on the internet. I would think a responsible teen would sit down with his folks and manner discuss the whens, the hows and they whys of tracking.

[Badandy]

If you want your iPhone pay the price because I suspect you don't pay a dime towards your iPhone or the rest of your life.

You don't know the OP, and you have no right to be mean to him for no reason. He asked a question and articulated very well how he felt and why he feels it's crossing the line. Get off his back. You've done this to multiple people (the BillMinder guy in the appstore forum) recently, just calm down. You're blowing up at literally nothing, and you keep doing it.

I'm with you, cpit: the fact that they can do it legally doesn't make it less creepy, especially if you've done nothing that warrants them keeping such a close eye on you all the darn time. I was a good kid, doing nothing untoward, and I would have found that really unsettling and it wouldn't have helped me have a trusting relationship with my parents.

I would as well. Again, they have the right, but you also have the right to take exception to it and explain to them why you feel uncomfortable.

[Axl Rose]

am i the only one who read the topic as "ability to shake your child" ?

[jknight8907]

I doubt if you'll find many shoulders to cry on here. If it's not your dime paying for it, you'll just have to man up and get over it.

[Badandy]

I doubt if you'll find many shoulders to cry on here. If it's not your dime paying for it, you'll just have to man up and get over it.

And yet we don't know whether he payed for the iPhone or not. And even if he did, he's not saying they don't have the right to, he's asking other people if his gut reaction (that it's creepy and unnecessary) seems reasonable.

EDIT: Same message goes out to rhsgolfer33. Sorry man, his question doesn't concern who pays the bills for it.

[jknight8907]

And yet we don't know whether he payed for the iPhone or not. And even if he did, he's not saying they don't have the right to, he's asking other people if his gut reaction (that it's creepy and unnecessary) seems reasonable.

EDIT: Same message goes out to rhsgolfer33. Sorry man, his question doesn't concern who pays the bills for it.

True, we don't know for sure. I'm betting pretty heavily that he doesn't, though.

In the end, creepy or not will not be a factor, though, as he doesn't really have a choice if he's not paying the bill.

[Iscariot]

You don't know the OP, and you have no right to be mean to him for no reason. He asked a question and articulated very well how he felt and why he feels it's crossing the line. Get off his back. You've done this to multiple people (the BillMinder guy in the appstore forum) recently, just calm down. You're blowing up at literally nothing, and you keep doing it.



I would as well. Again, they have the right, but you also have the right to take exception to it and explain to them why you feel uncomfortable.

I'm going to have to agree. Being a minor and being priviledged -- or even spoiled -- does not strip a person of their right to object to being treated in an unsavoury manner. The OP hasn't said or done anything to deserve treatment like that and to write him off because of his age is simply ageism.

[spaceboots06]

Let's see. You have an expensive phone that provides such utility.

Big brother? Your parents. They have this right imho.
Permission? You don't get to give them permission. You're the child.

If you want your iPhone pay the price because I suspect you don't pay a dime towards your iPhone or the rest of your life.

There are ways around it and I applaud you doing it, but be prepared to pay the price.

You're a child and your parents aren't stalking you, they're keeping an eye on you.

+1

Buy your own phone. Pay your own bills. Unless you don't want to do that stay away from pot smoking teenagers or people your parents don't want you around.

[newcronos]

It's not that I want to abuse any freedom I do have - it's just that I want to HAVE some. Ya know, with the thing that people used to have called trust.

Trust goes both ways. Do you not trust that they're only going to be using this feature when absolutely needed?

[spaceboots06]

Trust goes both ways. Do you not trust that they're only going to be using this feature when absolutely needed?

Read above post. If he needs to hide from something he should buy his own phone. He's technically not using his own phone, he's using his parent's phone.

[Badandy]

Read above post. If he needs to hide from something he should buy his own phone. He's technically not using his own phone, he's using his parent's phone.

And perhaps you should read the rest of the thread where he does not give any indication he isn't paying for his service added to the fact that he didn't ask a question that even remotely brings who pays for his cell service into consideration.


I was just wondering if you all think this is as creepy and unnecessary as I do

That's his question. His question is not "do they have the right to do this?"

[newcronos]

Read above post. If he needs to hide from something he should buy his own phone. He's technically not using his own phone, he's using his parent's phone.

I'm aware of that. I was just trying to work this from a slightly different angle ;)

[spaceboots06]

And perhaps you should read the rest of the thread where he does not give any indication he isn't paying for his service added to the fact that he didn't ask a question that even remotely brings who pays for his cell service into consideration.



That's his question. Not, "do they have the right to do this?"

Well, until we are notified as to if he is or is not paying his bill we cannot deem his parent's actions okay or not. Actually, regardless, his parents would be paying for the tracking fee. He should get his own contract if he's so fussy about his parents looking at a phone that's under their name on the bill.

[Badandy]

Well, until we are notified as to if he is or is not paying his bill we cannot deem his parent's actions okay or not. Actually, regardless, his parents would be paying for the tracking fee. He should get his own contract if he's so fussy about his parents looking at a phone that's under their name on the bill.

Yes, we can. He's asking if it's reasonable for him to think it's creepy/unnecessary. I know it's popular on MR to rail on kids whose parents are willing and able to provide stuff for them that maybe some of us didn't get, but this is getting ridiculous. We all know it's legal for his parents to track him, but let's discuss what the OP wanted us to discuss, "I was just wondering if you all think this is as creepy and unnecessary as I do".

[Rodimus Prime]

I am going to assume the parents reason for doing this is legit and not to spy on the kid. I will go with the reason they gave him. Say he lost his phone well easy way to find it. Or if he goes missing got his phone to locate him.

I know when I was in HS it was not like my parents did not know where I was. It was just a matter of a phone call for them to find out any how because I did have some type of cell phone on me. (was 7-8 years ago)

They generally knew when I was going to a friends place, or knew if I was going out somewhere.

It is not like they need to track me to have a good idea where I was. I am going to assume the same case is true here. The parents already have a damn good idea where he is. Hell this might cut down on those phone calls because it is not like he is going to go some where were he is not supposed to be. They get a little worried about him it is just look oh yeah he is at Bob house to study.. I forgot he was going there after school. Instead of her calling his phone and he does not hear it. that is the end of it. No worry no mess.

[cpit]

ha wow I didn't expect you all to react in the way you did. But I don't blame you all for jumping to conclusions, as I did not give much info and most people my age are the spoiled little brats whom you described perfectly.

But yea, I paid for the iphone 100% with my own money from my own job that I used to have (hopefully the economy will get better so I can find another) . Even though my parents have plenty of money, they've been raising me in the most unspoiled way possible. At times I get kinda mad about the fact that I have to pay for meals or movies out with friends or a new piece of clothing once in awhile (unlike all of your assumptions, I'm a girl haha), but I do recognize the fact that it'll help me some day. With the exception of the unlimited texting, my parents pay the phone bill, and I'm grateful for that. I didn't mean to come across in the wrong way.

And I honestly do see both sides of the argument here. I get that it makes them feel better knowing that they can locate me if they don't hear from me. And yes, I know that because I am a minor they have total control over me (they've made that very clear over the years).

My real meaning of this thread was that I just don't like the idea that people, even if they are my parents, can find me whenever they want. And honestly, if it wouldn't make it so inconvenient for everyone else (like my parents), I would give up my cellphone. The reason I bought the iphone in the first place is because, like most of you, I love apple to death (I spent my life's savings on the $600 iphone when it came out, and later bought the 3g when it came out, no regrets). If I didn't buy it, my parents probably would have gotten me a cheap phone that they could keep tabs on me with. I feel like my phone is more for other people to reach me than for me to reach them.

Financially, I'd say I'm 35%-40% independent. They pay for private school, my house, basic food, health insurance, and some other stuff. When I get my license, I will pay for gas and insurance with my own money. If I end up at a $50k/year college, which is very possible at this point, I will pay half the tuition (hello, debt). But this need for a parent to protect their child can get kind of excessive. My sister is almost 21 and she still needs permission to go to a friends house and she needs to check in constantly. I mean, where does parenting end and independence start?

[Iscariot]

Yes, we can. He's asking if it's reasonable for him to think it's creepy/unnecessary. I know it's popular on MR to rail on kids whose parents are willing and able to provide stuff for them that maybe some of us didn't get, but this is getting ridiculous. We all know it's legal for his parents to track him, but let's discuss what the OP wanted us to discuss, "I was just wondering if you all think this is as creepy and unnecessary as I do".

I agree. Given my lack of familial ties, I can't answer with much certitude, but in my opinion it does seem excessive.

[Signal-11]

The "I paid for it, you'll like it or leave it" argument never held much water with me for a number of reasons.

I have a cousin in the Marines. He pays for his little brother's mobile phone bills. Not that it's possible because he's in *-stan, but does that give him the right to spy on his little brother? Does that take away from his father's right to check up on his high school aged son?

Maybe cpit has a history of doing dumb things and maybe it's because he violated trust so many times that his parents are doing this. Or maybe he (or she, I dunno) is a trustworthy kid and it's his parents who are overbearing and a little paranoid. I don't know that and I'm going to bet that most of you don't either.

[Iscariot]

ha wow I didn't expect you all to react in the way you did. But I don't blame you all for jumping to conclusions, as I did not give much info and most people my age are the spoiled little brats whom you described perfectly.

But yea, I paid for the iphone 100% with my own money from my own job that I used to have (hopefully the economy will get better so I can find another) . Even though my parents have plenty of money, they've been raising me in the most unspoiled way possible. At times I get kinda mad about the fact that I have to pay for meals or movies out with friends or a new piece of clothing once in awhile (unlike all of your assumptions, I'm a girl haha), but I do recognize the fact that it'll help me some day. With the exception of the unlimited texting, my parents pay the phone bill, and I'm grateful for that. I didn't mean to come across in the wrong way.

And I honestly do see both sides of the argument here. I get that it makes them feel better knowing that they can locate me if they don't hear from me. And yes, I know that because I am a minor they have total control over me (they've made that very clear over the years).

My real meaning of this thread was that I just don't like the idea that people, even if they are my parents, can find me whenever they want. And honestly, if it wouldn't make it so inconvenient for everyone else (like my parents), I would give up my cellphone. The reason I bought the iphone in the first place is because, like most of you, I love apple to death (I spent my life's savings on the $600 iphone when it came out, and later bought the 3g when it came out, no regrets). If I didn't buy it, my parents probably would have gotten me a cheap phone that they could keep tabs on me with. I feel like my phone is more for other people to reach me than for me to reach them.

Financially, I'd say I'm 35%-40% independent. They pay for private school, my house, basic food, health insurance, and some other stuff. When I get my license, I will pay for gas and insurance with my own money. If I end up at a $50k/year college, which is very possible at this point, I will pay half the tuition (hello, debt). But this need for a parent to protect their child can get kind of excessive. My sister is almost 21 and she still needs permission to go to a friends house and she needs to check in constantly. I mean, where does parenting end and independence start?

I'm inclined to agree that it's unnecessarily overbearing then, but I'm not a parent. At the very least, I think a lot of posters owe you an apology.

[cpit]

oh, and to add on to my previous post, I wouldn't mind paying for my own phone bills (as long as I find another job soon). I would very much so like complete control over my bank account and debit card, but my parents want to be able to monitor everything I do, even if I did earn the money myself. I cannot access my cash without going through them, they can see everything I buy, they can see who I talk to and how much I talk to them, etc. I'm not saying that they DO stalk me, because they have more respect than that, but they feel that they need the ABILITY to stalk me (maybe stalk is the wrong word. how about "inspect closely"). I just want them to take a leap and let life happen.

and no, I'm not a problem child. If I were, this would be an entirely different story.

[motulist]

You have every right to feel like your privacy is being violated. Just because it is legal for them to this doesn't make it right. Legally parents are allowed to do a lot of terrible things to their kids, that's the downside to living in a (somewhat) free society.

Is there any way for you to determine if your location has been probed? That way you can make a mature honor-based agreement with them that they should not probe your whereabouts unless they have a reasonable cause to think that you might be in danger, and that every time they probe your location they must immediately inform you that they have done so. Then you can periodically check the logs to see if your location has been probed so you can see if they're holding up their end of the agreement. And in fact, whether or not you're able to check if your whereabouts have been probed, I suggest that you make this mature agreement with your parents anyway.

That's my opinion.

[spaceboots06]

oh, and to add on to my previous post, I wouldn't mind paying for my own phone bills (as long as I find another job soon). I would very much so like complete control over my bank account and debit card, but my parents want to be able to monitor everything I do, even if I did earn the money myself. I cannot access my cash without going through them, they can see everything I buy, they can see who I talk to and how much I talk to them, etc. I'm not saying that they DO stalk me, because they have more respect than that, but they feel that they need the ABILITY to stalk me (maybe stalk is the wrong word. how about "inspect closely"). I just want them to take a leap and let life happen.

and no, I'm not a problem child. If I were, this would be an entirely different story.

If I had a cellphone when I was younger the last thing I would want to do would have to pay the bill for it. If you do get a job you could get your own contract, but that would be a pain. Paying bills in general is a pain.

[cpit]

You have every right to feel like your privacy is being violated. Just because it is legal for them to this doesn't make it right. Legally parents are allowed to do a lot of terrible things to their kids, that's the downside to living in a (somewhat) free society.

Is there any way for you to determine if your location has been probed? That way you can make a mature honor-based agreement with them that they should not probe your whereabouts unless they have a reasonable cause to think that you might be in danger, and that every time they probe your location they must immediately inform you that they have done so. Then you can periodically check the logs to see if your location has been probed so you can see if they're holding up their end of the agreement. And in fact, whether or not you're able to check if your whereabouts have been probed, I suggest that you make this mature agreement with your parents anyway.

That's my opinion.

There is no way for me to know when they located me. That's what bugs me most about this. I have had many discussions with them about this, but their view is that I shouldn't have anything to hide, so I shouldn't have any problem with it.


If I had a cellphone when I was younger the last thing I would want to do would have to pay the bill for it. If you do get a job you could get your own contract, but that would be a pain. Paying bills in general is a pain.

I wouldn't be allowed to get my own contract. By them paying most of the bill, they have more power. I mean, I'm not complaining that they're paying, and no I'm not hiding anything related to my phone, but I kind of want to feel like I'm the one in control of my life.

[iBlue]

You have every right to feel like your privacy is being violated. Just because it is legal for them to this doesn't make it right. Legally parents are allowed to do a lot of terrible things to their kids, that's the downside to living in a (somewhat) free society.

Is there any way for you to determine if your location has been probed? That way you can make a mature honor-based agreement with them that they should not probe your whereabouts unless they have a reasonable cause to think that you might be in danger, and that every time they probe your location they must immediately inform you that they have done so. Then you can periodically check the logs to see if your location has been probed so you can see if they're holding up their end of the agreement. And in fact, whether or not you're able to check if your whereabouts have been probed, I suggest that you make this mature agreement with your parents anyway.

That's my opinion.

Sort of what I was thinking as well.

My husband's phone also has a GPS locator thing in it but it lets you know when it's being searched for. I would think/hope the iPhone has the same capabilities to let you know it's being 'probed'. It would make it easier to know if they are keeping up their end of the deal and not invading your privacy. I am definitely of the opinion here that just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Some of the posts within this thread are little over the top, what's the matter with you grumpy old farts? I wish more of the teenagers who happen upon this forum were even just a tenth as polite, well-spoken and reasonable as this one is.



edit: damn, I didn't see the most recent post. That's a bummer the iPhone doesn't let you know it's being searched for.

[rhsgolfer33]

And yet we don't know whether he payed for the iPhone or not. And even if he did, he's not saying they don't have the right to, he's asking other people if his gut reaction (that it's creepy and unnecessary) seems reasonable.

EDIT: Same message goes out to rhsgolfer33. Sorry man, his question doesn't concern who pays the bills for it.

That's wasn't really my point. Sure, its creepy, but when your parents (as mine do and have done) allow you to live in their home, pay any of your bills, etc, you don't really have a choice but to deal with it or leave. I understand the creepy factor, I certainly wouldn't want my parents to be able to track my movements constantly, but until I can pay for my own school, my own shelter, food, insurance, car, gas, phone, etc. I wouldn't even think of complaining about it.

The OP does sound like a smart kid though. A little understanding on the part of the parents would be nice.

I agree. Given my lack of familial ties, I can't answer with much certitude, but in my opinion it does seem excessive.

That's because it is excessive. Most of us grew up just fine without being tracked constantly. I can understand wanting to monitor your child but tracking their location via cell phone when they're a teenager is a little out there.

[motulist]

I have had many discussions with them about this, but their view is that I shouldn't have anything to hide, so I shouldn't have any problem with it.

That is an AWFUL message to instill in your children. You should totally turn this around on them so they understand what they're saying. For instance, you can tell them that you're going to put a 24/7 webcam on the family computer. They'll say "oh no you're not!" and then you'll say "Why not? If you don't have anything to hide then you should have no problem with it."


I wouldn't be allowed to get my own contract. By them paying most of the bill, they have more power. I mean, I'm not complaining that they're paying, and no I'm not hiding anything related to my phone, but I kind of want to feel like I'm the one in control of my life.

You can always play a game of chicken with them. Tell them, fine, if I can't know when you're probing my location on my cell phone, then I'm just not going to carry a cell phone at all. I have a feeling that they would be VERY uncomfortable with not having any means to contact you when you're out of the house. But as I said, this would be a game of chicken to see who backs down first. I'm sure you don't want to be without a cell phone any more than they want you to be without one either. And they can counter that you're not allowed to leave the house at all unless you have a cell phone on you, which again becomes a game of chicken, you don't want to be grounded any more than they want you inside the house all day missing extra curricular activities. So it becomes a power struggle game of chicken to see who backs down first.

Also, is it just the iphone that lets a parent probe your location without alerting you that it happened, or is that the case with all cell phones these days? Because if it's just the iphone then you can play another game of chicken with them. You can tell them, fine, I'll always have a cell phone with me when I go out, but it's not gonna be the iphone, I'm gonna buy a cheap cell phone that doesn't have the capability to have its location probed. But I think that's a particular game of chicken scenario that you're less likely to win.

[LethalWolfe]

There is a point as a parent where you have to eventually take your hand off the back of the bike and let the kid ride on two wheels by herself. If parents want to raise responsible kids they have to give their kid responsibility and the rewards and consequences that come with it. I don't know how mankind ever survived w/o parents being able to track and contact their kids every second of every day.:rolleyes:


Lethal

[cpit]

That is an AWFUL message to instill in your children. You should totally turn this around on them so they understand what they're saying. For instance, you can tell them that you're going to put a 24/7 webcam on the family computer. They'll say "oh no you're not!" and then you'll say "Why not? If you don't have anything to hide then you should have no problem with it."




You can always play a game of chicken with them. Tell them, fine, if I can't know when you're probing my location on my cell phone, then I'm just not going to carry a cell phone at all. I have a feeling that they would be VERY uncomfortable with not having any means to contact you when you're out of the house. But as I said, this would be a game of chicken to see who backs down first. I'm sure you don't want to be without a cell phone any more than they want you to be without one either. And they can counter that you're not allowed to leave the house at all unless you have a cell phone on you, which again becomes a game of chicken, you don't want to be grounded any more than they want you inside the house all day missing extra curricular activities. So it becomes a power struggle game of chicken to see who backs down first.

Also, is it just the iphone that lets a parent probe your location, or is that the case with all cell phones these days? Because if it's just the iphone then you can play another game of chicken with them. You can tell them, fine, I'll always have a cell phone with me when I go out, but it's not gonna be the iphone, I'm gonna buy a cheap cell phone that doesn't have the capability to have its location probed. But I think that's a particular game of chicken scenario that you're less likely to win.

I'm just sick of trying to reason with them because it never works. I've tried stuff along the lines of turning it around on them, but their answer is always "We're the parents, you're the child. We make the decisions, not you. End of story." I don't want to keep going through the hassle of doing this or that to get them to see my way.

I learned long ago to just wave my white flag, whether or not I want to. It's always easier that way in the end. I wanted others opinions on this topic for the sake of knowing which side of this you all thought is the unreasonable one. I already know this isn't an issue I can win with them.

[motulist]

I'm just sick of trying to reason with them because it never works. I've tried stuff along the lines of turning it around on them, but their answer is always "We're the parents, you're the child. We make the decisions, not you. End of story." I don't want to keep going through the hassle of doing this or that to get them to see my way.

I learned long ago to just wave my white flag, whether or not I want to. It's always easier that way in the end. I wanted others opinions on this topic for the sake of knowing which side of this you all thought is the unreasonable one. I already know this isn't an issue I can win with them.

Wow, I'm sorry to hear you sounding so defeated about your life. Maybe you should show this thread to them and let them see how their overbearing actions and unyielding attitudes are negatively effecting you as a person and hurting your growth toward a healthy adulthood. I think if they read your words and saw the damage that they're causing to your soul and your development, then it would greatly change how they approach parenting you in this new phase in our life.

Keep your chin up! You're you're own person! You DO have control of your destiny! Your parents can make your path toward being an independent person easier, or they can make it harder, but they can't do anything at all to stop you from becoming a free and independent adult if you so choose.

[rhsgolfer33]

I'm just sick of trying to reason with them because it never works. I've tried stuff along the lines of turning it around on them, but their answer is always "We're the parents, you're the child. We make the decisions, not you. End of story." I don't want to keep going through the hassle of doing this or that to get them to see my way.

I learned long ago to just wave my white flag, whether or not I want to. It's always easier that way in the end. I wanted others opinions on this topic for the sake of knowing which side of this you all thought is the unreasonable one. I already know this isn't an issue I can win with them.

You definitely have to know how to pick your battles when you live with your parents. I applaud you for learning that a lot more quickly than I did. I finally realized in my late teens than arguing with parents when they pay for anything of necessity is almost always fruitless and that it was always a lot easier just to say "ok" and deal with their decisions (which most of the time, in hindsight, don't seem so bad).

[LethalWolfe]

You DO have control of your destiny!
This is just an aside, but isn't saying one can control one's destiny a contradiction. :D


Lethal

[motulist]

You definitely have to know how to pick your battles when you live with your parents. I applaud you for learning that a lot more quickly than I did. I finally realized in my late teens than arguing with parents when they pay for anything of necessity is almost always fruitless and that it was always a lot easier just to say "ok" and deal with their decisions (which most of the time, in hindsight, don't seem so bad).


I totally agree with you, but I think this is one of the big things, and not one of the little things. She isn't trying to be allowed to get into a car with a guy who's known to be a drunk driver, and she's not trying to get her parents to pay for a new expensive dress, rather, she's trying to gain a freedom of mind. She's trying to know that her every move isn't being tracked. She sounds like a very together person, it sounds like she never will go anywhere that would be overly bad to go to, but it's a very healthy impulse to want to KNOW that you aren't being tracked, even though you really aren't going anywhere that would be very bad to be going to. This is the process of becoming a healthy adult. The bird has to fly the nest, to know that they're free to make their own way. It's very dystopian to feel like you're constantly being watched, even if (or maybe especially if) you know you would never have been doing anything you wouldn't want to be seen doing anyway.

[jecapaga]

Why assume any of this is a trust issue unless there is a reason? When you are a parent you may understand, or not, that there is a feeble but decent amount of knowledge that this provides. I am betting the OP's parents are interested in his safety and whereabouts, not tracking illicit behavior unless there is a history here.

GPS chips implanted in children are probably not too far down the road. Imagine that.

[Dagless]

If you think it's going over the top then simply don't take your phone with you. I wouldn't do it for my kids, hell I got up to some (what they would class as) bad things as a kid but I don't regret any of it. And that was without a phone too :p.

[dontwalkhand]

Whether or not your parents/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc have this capability, the NSA will be keeping a close watch on ALL OF YOU anyway.

[andalusia]

Whether or not your parents/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc have this capability, the NSA will be keeping a close watch on ALL OF YOU anyway.

:rolleyes:

[LouisBlack]

I'm just sick of trying to reason with them because it never works. I've tried stuff along the lines of turning it around on them, but their answer is always "We're the parents, you're the child. We make the decisions, not you. End of story." I don't want to keep going through the hassle of doing this or that to get them to see my way.

I learned long ago to just wave my white flag, whether or not I want to. It's always easier that way in the end. I wanted others opinions on this topic for the sake of knowing which side of this you all thought is the unreasonable one. I already know this isn't an issue I can win with them.

It can be very annoying when you mentally out grow the child status before phisically do. You sound like a really mature and decent person and it sounds like your parents are being a little paranoid with no real reason to be.

The problem that I found with this style of parenting is that it's all well and good when your child is at home but as soon as they get a sniff of freedom they tend to go off the rails. When I first went to university you could always see the people that had over protective parents because they were the ones that ended up throwing up in the street from drinking too much or had a rather long list of 'special friends'.

I'm rather shocked at all of the comments in this thread from people who have some very odd Orwellian views on privacy. Everyone is entitled to privacy... even children.

[Unspoken Demise]

Wait, your child, or my child?

[andalusia]

Wait, your child, or my child?

One's child ;)

[Unspoken Demise]

One's child ;)

Oh, cuz I've been doing the 1st one for years.

[andalusia]

Oh, cuz I've been doing the 1st one for years.

O.O I don't have a child!:D

[Unspoken Demise]

O.O I don't have a child!:D

I've been stalking your sperm.

[andalusia]

I've been stalking your sperm.

This thread just got weird..
;):cool:

[iMacmatician]

The thread title sounds like an ad for the functionality offered by the carrier.That's also what I thought.

[Meecrob]

Maybe you should just have a heart-to-heart and explain that you would like to be more independent? As long as you are reasonable and rational about it you can probably do it.

[velocityg4]

Beyond trying to convince your parents to remove this feature. Giving them reasons of the detrimental effects they are causing you. All you can do is wait until you are 18 and move out.

You said you could pay half for a 50K a year university. Instead go to a good state university and pay it all yourself. The only way you can truly leave the rule of your parents is to be economically independent.

If you want to test if they are only tracking you for emergency uses. Go to places you are allowed but always tell your parents you are somewhere else. If they ever call you on it. Then you have caught them in the act of using the tracking under false pretenses. Though I do not know your parents so could not say whether or not this is advisable.

Whether or not your parents/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc have this capability, the NSA will be keeping a close watch on ALL OF YOU anyway.

Thats why you pay cash for a pay as you go cell phone with no ID check.:D

[wywern209]

Keep your chin up! You're you're own person! You DO have control of your destiny! Your parents can make your path toward being an independent person easier, or they can make it harder, but they can't do anything at all to stop you from becoming a free and independent adult if you so choose.

Have u ever watched the Tales of mere existence videos on youtube? the one about aging and old people.

[wywern209]

It can be very annoying when you mentally out grow the child status before phisically do. You sound like a really mature and decent person and it sounds like your parents are being a little paranoid with no real reason to be.

The problem that I found with this style of parenting is that it's all well and good when your child is at home but as soon as they get a sniff of freedom they tend to go off the rails. When I first went to university you could always see the people that had over protective parents because they were the ones that ended up throwing up in the street from drinking too much or had a rather long list of 'special friends'.

I'm rather shocked at all of the comments in this thread from people who have some very odd Orwellian views on privacy. Everyone is entitled to privacy... even children.
Entitled to but not given.unfortunately.

[Don't panic]

unannounced call transfer.
done

[motulist]

Have u ever watched the Tales of mere existence videos on youtube? the one about aging and old people.

Wow! Those are awesome! I never saw them before. I'm not quite sure how they relate to the topic at hand, but still, thanks for hipping me to these! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P785j15Tzk

[Capt Crunch]

Why not turn this into a hilarious practical joke? First, drive to a really bad part of town and stop for 10 minutes. Then after a while, begin driving erratically and abruptly stop at the base of a tree. Then run as fast as you can in a random direction. Stop. Walk slowly back to your car and drive to the police station. Stay there for a while and then run back to your car and drive for the border.

[Signal-11]

At times I get kinda mad about the fact that I have to pay for meals or movies out with friends or a new piece of clothing once in awhile (unlike all of your assumptions, I'm a girl haha), but I do recognize the fact that it'll help me some day.

Well, there's not a lot of girls who are rebuilding computers with their dads. There's not a lot of boys, either but that demographic does tend to skew a certain way.

As I've already said, I think the tracking is a little beyond the pale. However, the reasons for why I would conceivably want to track my hypothetical son would be different from why I'd want to track my hypothetical daughter. I'd find the reasons for tracking the girl a little more compelling simply because I know what 16 year old boys are like around girls.

But yeah, it's remarkable how much the equation changes between guys and girls, isn't it?

Maybe you've lost this battle already. Maybe you haven't. Seems to me from past posts that your parents are alright. At some point in your life, you'll learn that sometimes in cases like these, pushing the point doesn't get you nearly as far as presenting the idea and letting them come to the correct conclusion on their own. Let it drop and leave it alone for now and bring up the idea again when they're more receptive.

You'll still probably end up like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmecyCCdknk&feature=channel

I'm in my 30s and I'm still having this conversation with my mother. On the phone.

[mscriv]

Not trying to be arrogant here, just giving full disclosure. I'm a Licensed Professional Counselor with a masters degree in Marriage and Family Therapy. I've spent over 10 year working specifically with troubled teens and families of all types in all settings. So, respectfully and with humility, I'm going to play the expert card. Boo-Yah :D

Cpit, it seems we have established that you are a mature, well adjusted, respectful, and responsible young lady. For that I applaud you. However, please recognize that while a lot of the credit for this belongs to you, a part of it also belongs to your parents. The way they have raised you and the investments they have made in you have contributed greatly to who you are, how you think, and how you act.

In answer to your question I do not find what your parents are doing nor any parents being involved in the lives of their children to be creepy or unnecessary. The fact that they care about what is going on in your life and are concerned about your safety (where you are, what you are doing, and who you are with) is a good thing. It might feel overbearing or like an invasion of privacy, but in truth it is not. It's actually good parenting.

There's been varying responses to your question and all of us are working off of limited information to form our opinions. However, everyone must remember that we can't have it both ways. Some are assuming your parent's are overbearing, borderline abusive, and stifling your growth as an individual. Others are assuming that you are a whining teenager who needs to just get over it and understand that as long as your parents pay the bills....

The key is finding a balance. Being both a teenager and a parent are tough. You're trying to learn how to be on your own and they are trying to prepare you the best way they know how. If you are as responsible as you seem, then I'm sure your parents not only know this fact, but are proud of it as well. Which means, I highly doubt they spend all day "tracking your every movement to catch you doing something you shouldn't be doing." In fact, it seems like you have quite a bit of freedom and it sounds more like this is a safety tool that if needed is available.

Don't let this bother you. From the different posts you've made since joining it seems like you've got a pretty good family and a pretty good life. Be thankful for what you have and recognize that these are growing pains everyone goes through. Best of luck and let me know if I can help in any other way. :)

For those of you on the extreme sides of this debate that disagree with me. Bring it! :p

[mahashel]

I have always celebrated my independence, both as a child and as an adult.
There are usually very simple ways to avoid ensnarement that don't necessitate melodramatic confrontation.
In the case you described, the obvious solution to me is to either turn off the phone when you're not using it, or to stop using it entirely. They can't *make* you use their free phone. Yes, other people might say that you should be grateful that you've been given a phone, and they're right. However, if you feel that it violates your space, then don't use it. Done deal.
Everything's a decision. Even things you might not consider a choice.
Just my 2 cents. :)

[AppleMatt]

I'm of the opinion that although parents may have the right and these days, have the technical capability, it doesn't mean they should...A part of growing up is not having your parents looking over your shoulder all the time.

There is no way for me to know when they located me. That's what bugs me most about this. I have had many discussions with them about this, but their view is that I shouldn't have anything to hide, so I shouldn't have any problem with it.

Absolutely agree. It's a shame that people are taking a simplistic 'they pay for it get over it' attitude. How far could you take that argument? Food? Shelter? Paying for or being named on the contract isn't justification, it's side-stepping the question.

Children/adolescents need secrets. It's part of forming their identity. I think the OP has a perfectly valid concern, and was wise to raise it with her parents. They may have said one thing to her face, but hopefully when she walked away they had a chat with each other about it. I wouldn't say it's creepy, because I don't know them, sounds more like they're pre-occupied by the ever-decreasing stranger danger. I'd be highly surprised if they spend their time 'testing' how truthful the OP is when she says she's going to Kate's house to do homework, but they saw that blindingly obvious tell-tale 'haha I'm actually not and you're believing me' look. More likely they'll let those slide, and it's more 'oh my god she said she'd be home 7 hours ago and isn't picking up lets check the phone thing because we're worried about the safety of our daughter'.

Financially, I'd say I'm 35%-40% independent. They pay for private school, my house, basic food, health insurance, and some other stuff. When I get my license, I will pay for gas and insurance with my own money. If I end up at a $50k/year college, which is very possible at this point, I will pay half the tuition (hello, debt).

I think that's excellent. However, I'd say it's more important to learn the principles behind money (e.g. loan interest, using leverage, period payments etc.). I've no doubt you've learnt/are learning these, I'm simply saying that when your parents decided to have you they implicitly agreed to certain things (e.g. to feed you, educate you etc.) so I hope you don't weight yourself down with too much burden. Enjoy college.

You don't know the OP, and you have no right to be mean to him for no reason. He asked a question and articulated very well how he felt and why he feels it's crossing the line. Get off his back. You've done this to multiple people (the BillMinder guy in the appstore forum) recently, just calm down. You're blowing up at literally nothing, and you keep doing it.

I fully agree, but she has for years. Don't waste your time calling it out - some people are just oppositional/defiant by nature. Black = white, unless that's what you're saying too :rolleyes:.

AppleMatt

[dukebound85]

Every child has a right to privacy, but no child has a right to a phone.
If you want your privacy, give up your phone. Or, you know, just turn it off.

lol no, children do NOT have a right to privacy from their parents

stop spreading false facts

[Badandy]

lol no, children do NOT have a right to privacy from their parents

stop spreading false facts

Have fun explaining to your children why you insist on going EVERYWHERE with them, including into the toilet.

[Signal-11]

lol no, children do NOT have a right to privacy from their parents

stop spreading false facts

That would depend on the law of the land, wouldn't it?

Presuming we're talking about US law, then no. But then it would depend on whether or not you believed in natural rights or social contracts. Didn't a bunch of guys a little over two centuries ago start a revolution on this continent that there are certain inalienable rights?

It's obvious to me that Badandy wasn't talking about The Law and was rather speaking to general person-hood and human experience.

Even if you don't see it that way and felt a need to correct him, why be such a jerk about it?

[dukebound85]

That would depend on the law of the land, wouldn't it?

Presuming we're talking about US law, then no. But then it would depend on whether or not you believed in natural rights or social contracts. Didn't a bunch of guys a little over two centuries ago start a revolution on this continent that there are certain inalienable rights?

It's obvious to me that Badandy wasn't talking about The Law and was rather speaking to general person-hood and human experience.

Even if you don't see it that way and felt a need to correct him, why be such a jerk about it?

i wasnt being a jerk at all

kids shouldnt be mad if thier parents want to keep an eye on them. its a good thing

too many kids think its illegal to be spied on by their parents.

[Love]

Why not turn this into a hilarious practical joke? First, drive to a really bad part of town and stop for 10 minutes. Then after a while, begin driving erratically and abruptly stop at the base of a tree. Then run as fast as you can in a random direction. Stop. Walk slowly back to your car and drive to the police station. Stay there for a while and then run back to your car and drive for the border.

I love that idea.

I pay a good amount of the bill and paid for the iPhone hardware in my deal. Rogers currently doesn't offer that kind of service.

I generally agree with AppleMatt. The law might say that children don't have the right to privacy, but unless they've generally been a problem child, they at least, IMO, deserve some privacy.

[dmmcintyre3]

Mom/Dad's phones have an option for the GPS chip to turn it to e911 only. But if you really do not want them tracking you get a prepaid phone with no tracking support. Pay for the cards with cash.

[ct2k7]

Well, until we are notified as to if he is or is not paying his bill we cannot deem his parent's actions okay or not. Actually, regardless, his parents would be paying for the tracking fee. He should get his own contract if he's so fussy about his parents looking at a phone that's under their name on the bill.

The time that he wants his location to be tracked is when he is kidnapped, but the opressor will have ensured that the phone cannot be used for tracking....

sounds like a good plan to me.... :/

[dmmcintyre3]

The time that he wants his location to be tracked is when he is kidnapped, but the opressor will have ensured that the phone cannot be used for tracking....

Pull battery or throw phone out window or hammer it to bits

[baypharm]

Sorry but you'll get no sympathy here. It's 2009 and there is no privacy left in the USA. Period. As far as your situation goes, you're a minor under your parents control: therefore suck it up and realize you have no rights until you turn 18.

[Badandy]

Thanks for resurrecting an old thread, not reading the previous three pages of comments, and misunderstanding what the OP was asking. Bravo.

[AppleMatt]

Thanks for resurrecting an old thread, not reading the previous three pages of comments, and misunderstanding what the OP was asking. Bravo.

Post of the year! Couldn't have said it better myself.

AppleMatt