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MacRumors
Jul 23, 2009, 10:09 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/23/apple-patent-application-details-touch-sensitive-unmounting-of-external-devices-from-computers/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/07/23/110115-touch_sensitive_peripheral_500.jpg

In a patent application (http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220090184932%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090184932&RS=DN/20090184932) filed in January 2008 and published today by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, Apple describes its work on computer peripheral devices that are capable of initiating shut down of communications with the host computer to prepare for removal by sensing a touch or impending touch from the user. As an example, Apple points to the need for USB flash drives to be unmounted from the operating system prior to disconnection.Before the user can remove the device, the user has to tell the host system that the device is about to be disconnected, so that an operating system of the host system can perform dismount operations (e.g., finish read/write transactions, close files) to prevent data loss when the device is disconnected from the host system. Some popular operating systems (e.g., Mac OS®, Windows®) require the user to "drag n drop" the icon onto a "trash" icon or perform some other sequence of steps to warn the operating system that the device is about to be disconnected. This conventional dismount procedure allows the operating system to perform dismount operations before the device is disconnected from the host system.

A common problem with conventional dismount procedures is that users often forget to follow the dismount procedures. For users who remember to use the proper dismount procedures, there is often a long wait while the operating system performs dismount operations. This wait can be several seconds long which can be frustrating to many users.In the description of the invention, Apple covers a broad array of sensing techniques that could be used to allow a device such as a USB flash drive to sense the user's touch as he or she begins to remove the device. Further, Apple suggests the possibility of using a capacitive-sensing system to sense the approach of the user's hand in order to begin the unmounting process even earlier.Summary: A portable device configured for engaging to a host system can be operable to generate a signal when the device is touched by a user or when the portable device detects an impending touch by the user. Responsive to the signal, the host system automatically initiates one or more operations related to disengaging the portable device from the host system. In some aspects, the portable device can be electrically, optically, electromechanically and/or mechanically engaged and/or disengaged to a host system.

These features allow a user to disconnect the portable device from the host system more quickly, and also prevents data corruption due to failure of the user to follow proper procedures.The invention is credited to Brett Alten, currently Apple's Director of Patent Development.

Article Link: Apple Patent Application Details Touch-Sensitive Unmounting of External Devices From Computers (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/23/apple-patent-application-details-touch-sensitive-unmounting-of-external-devices-from-computers/)



Eidorian
Jul 23, 2009, 10:11 AM
Touch USB flash drive. Unmount! :D

I like it.

SFStateStudent
Jul 23, 2009, 10:21 AM
So, if I just think about it, my Mac will do it? What if I just give it "the old head-fake?":p:p:p

angelwatt
Jul 23, 2009, 10:21 AM
I hope it wouldn't auto-dismount without user interaction. I've often touched the flash drive with wanting to remove it, such as when making sure it was connected snuggly. Also, I'm a lefty and use a MacBook so my hand is always pretty close to the flash drive. If it just prepares for dismount that would be fine.

benflick
Jul 23, 2009, 10:24 AM
This to me sounds unneeded. While I do agree it would be a cool feature, for the price you may pay for a capable flash drive, the old way is fine.

talkingfuture
Jul 23, 2009, 10:31 AM
That looks like a good feature. The only problem being that Apple don't make flash drives. Wonder what they will use it on.

AidenShaw
Jul 23, 2009, 10:31 AM
Sounds like data corruption just waiting to happen - unless there's a "code" or a "rhythm" to the touchs for it to be recognized as a dismount command.

"Shave and a haircut - dismount"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Shavenotes.png

locust76
Jul 23, 2009, 10:37 AM
Wait... Macs need to dismount a flash drive before removing it?

tyrnight
Jul 23, 2009, 10:41 AM
Wait... Macs need to dismount a flash drive before removing it?

LOL...

I wanna say.. why don't they just adopt the Microsoft way of doing it.. :p

Courtaj
Jul 23, 2009, 10:41 AM
That looks like a good feature. The only problem being that Apple don't make flash drives. Wonder what they will use it on.They'll use it on manufacturers who want to buy a license to build such a device. Crafty Apple.I've often touched the flash drive with wanting to remove it, such as when making sure it was connected snuggly.Nothing like a good, snug fit. Snuggly Apple.

infernohellion
Jul 23, 2009, 10:49 AM
LOL...

I wanna say.. why don't they just adopt the Microsoft way of doing it.. :p

I agree... how did they do it.. quite convenient.

What I hate the most is when you cannot unmount it simply because some apps (that I'm not aware of) are using it

ActionJax
Jul 23, 2009, 10:49 AM
This is a very interesting way to solve a problem that shouldn't exist.

abprime
Jul 23, 2009, 10:52 AM
Personally, I think this is wholly and totally unnecessary. I can't ever see myself paying extra for a feature like this. Everything in the patent refers to user error, essentially. If you're too stupid to unmount the disk before disconnecting it, then you deserve to have your data corrupted so that you learn from your mistake. AND... even when I've been unable to umount a flash drive (b/c it's tied up by some unknown program/process/application), and I've had to resort to removing it without unmounting, I've never suffered any data corruption anyway... Maybe I'm just lucky.

killerrobot
Jul 23, 2009, 10:53 AM
I don't see how the touch is going to stop files and dismount everything immediately.

Seems like a cool idea, but I'm sure I can pull the drive out before it even senses my touch or the encroachment of my hand.
(Yes, you may call me Mr. Very Fast Hands);)

macrumorsMaster
Jul 23, 2009, 10:59 AM
This wait can be several seconds long which can be frustrating to many users.

Wow, I didn't know a few seconds of wait could be so frustrating. Play a game on your Touch while waiting :D

notjustjay
Jul 23, 2009, 11:03 AM
Can I be honest? I rarely "disconnect" or "dismount" or "safely remove device" from Windows. I always just unplug it. And it works.

On the Mac, if I try that, it gets mad, so I make sure to eject/dismount first.

I know, data corruption, yada yada, but I've never experienced any problems as long as I'm not pulling the drive when there's something actively happening (like a file copy).

A modern OS should really be able to cope with pulling a drive out when it's not being used.

MrCrowbar
Jul 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
I don't mind ejecting volumes manually if only OSX would let me do it. Usually it's used by some applications and therefore cannot be unmounted. Even after quitting all applications (even restarting Finder), it still doesn't want to unmount. I wish I would get a window telling me which applications(processes are preventing unmounting and a button to quit them all.

wolfshades
Jul 23, 2009, 11:10 AM
WTF? I was just reaching for my coffee!!

*Some solutions are just too "helpful" sometimes, you know?*:rolleyes:

Small White Car
Jul 23, 2009, 11:11 AM
I NEVER un-mount flash drives. Not worth the time or the trouble.

Hard drives? Of course. But a flash drive? Never.

I suspect I'm more 'normal' than the rest of you here.

JayMan8081
Jul 23, 2009, 11:15 AM
It's an interesting idea but I also wonder about the practicality of it. Plus flash drives are so darn cheap right now and I wonder how much this would add to the cost.

Arcus
Jul 23, 2009, 11:23 AM
Some popular operating systems (e.g., Mac OS®, Windows®) require the user to "drag n drop" the icon onto a "trash" icon or perform some other sequence of steps to warn the operating system that the device is about to be disconnected


That is not correct. Windows does not require you to do this.

Baron58
Jul 23, 2009, 11:23 AM
LOL...

I wanna say.. why don't they just adopt the Microsoft way of doing it.. :p

This is a very interesting way to solve a problem that shouldn't exist.



Exactly! All they need to do is implement SYNCHRONOUS DATA WRITES. Windows writes the data to the drive immediately, so you can pull & go. The system realises "oh, the device is removed", so instead of throwing an error it cleans up the mount point.

OS X uses asynchronous writes... When you 'save' a file it isn't *really* 'saved' (written to disk) just then... it's cached in memory and written when convenient. Unmounting the disk forces a sync() to make sure the data is written to disk before it is pulled out.

Apple, just implement synchronous writes already and stop with the technological second-guessing. It's bad enough that the iPhone can't be locked to portrait or landscape, and may switch orientation when IT thinks you want to, rather than what you really want it to do. This touch-sensitive unmounting crap is unnecessary.

Tastic Bycrom
Jul 23, 2009, 11:25 AM
Congratulations. You've patented the eject button....
Really, wouldn't it make more sense to have media needing an eject to just auto-eject when not in actual use and re-establish communication when triggered to (yeah, that's a slightly more windows-esqe approach)
I dunno - hide LEDs near the USB ports that light up when removal isn't safe...

Baron58
Jul 23, 2009, 11:30 AM
That is not correct. Windows does not require you to do this.

Win2k, WinNT and Win98 with USB support *did* require you to click on the green arrow in the systray and 'stop' the device. No different than clicking on the icon and ejecting it in OS X (2 steps). WinXP introduced the 'hot unplug' capability.

globalhemp
Jul 23, 2009, 11:34 AM
In over 15 years of using Macs, the unmount disc issue has always been an odd-ball. While the patent states Windows OS may have same issue, it does not.

So, its good to see that Apple is finally going to allow users the ability to unmount a disc without dragging-and-dropping disc into trash can. For most users its only logical that you would not want to "trash" (delete) your files. That is what any non-Mac user would assume you are doing be dragging disc to trash. Of course, you can use menu bar to unmount / eject disc, and Mac OS X now has keyboard for unmounting, ... trash can turns into Eject button when doing so, etc. Anyhow, its all about time that the weirdness ends.

MrCrowbar
Jul 23, 2009, 11:43 AM
I dunno - hide LEDs near the USB ports that light up when removal isn't safe...

That's so simple, yet genious! Have a lil light like on the magsafe connector on every port that lights up whenever data has not yet been synced to the external drive. I'd also settle for a "busy" indocator on the volume icons in the finder and desktop.

fo0bar
Jul 23, 2009, 11:46 AM
Exactly! All they need to do is implement SYNCHRONOUS DATA WRITES. Windows writes the data to the drive immediately, so you can pull & go. The system realises "oh, the device is removed", so instead of throwing an error it cleans up the mount point.

Windows (>= XP SP1) actually uses near-synchronous writes. There is some small caching done to speed up small writes, for the sake of speed. There is still a small chance that hot-removing a USB device from Windows will result in data loss, but IIRC we're talking about a few seconds at most.

benpatient
Jul 23, 2009, 11:48 AM
This is one of those things that makes PC users laugh at Mac users. I was honestly furious when this didn't change with OS X.

I should be able to eject a CD or pull out a flash drive or detach a USB/FW hard drive without asking for permission. This has always and will always piss me off. Last week I had a flash drive with 3 .mov files on it that I stuck into my mac-pro's front USB port.

I copied one of the files to my machine's "movies" folder and then hit CMD-E.

http://www.creativetechs.com/iq/tip_images/GREP-LSOF-Terminal.png

Awesome. The only applications that should have even seen the volume are the finder and the finder. So I relaunch the finder. And I'm greeted with this:

http://www.creativetechs.com/iq/tip_images/GREP-LSOF-Terminal.png

Then I just pull the drive out of the port and I get that other error message about how I might be ruining my life by removing the drive without unmounting it first...

this proposed "solution" is only going to cause bigger problems if it's adopted, although I doubt we'll be seeing this any time soon...if ever.

I mean, seriously, it's 2009, guys...

thejadedmonkey
Jul 23, 2009, 11:50 AM
Can I be honest? I rarely "disconnect" or "dismount" or "safely remove device" from Windows. I always just unplug it. And it works.

Looks like Apple should work on improving OS X, so it can keep up with The Most Advanced Operating System®

Sadly, my first thought was "here comes Apple branded flash drives with half the capacity for twice the price". Sad, isn't it?

jb510
Jul 23, 2009, 11:54 AM
That looks like a good feature. The only problem being that Apple don't make flash drives. Wonder what they will use it on.

Apple just prepaid for 500m in flash memory from Toshiba... while this isn't unusual to secure flash for their iPods and iPhones... who knows... 1 + 1 = at least 1.5.

That said I don't see Apple making flash drives, just build the capabilty into the OS.

I personally don't see why flash drives don't have a button on them to start/stop or mount/unmount them... would it be that freaking hard for them to send a signal over USB to warn of an unmount? and wouldn't a button and status led be a lot more reliable that magic proximity sensing touch sensors and such?

Why must everything be made in the most complicated way possible... maybe in a few years they'll detect brainwaves...

Sonicjay
Jul 23, 2009, 11:54 AM
My guess is that they intend to use this on the iPod when disc mode is enabled, not a usb key..

fef714
Jul 23, 2009, 11:57 AM
That looks like a good feature. The only problem being that Apple don't make flash drives. Wonder what they will use it on.

iPod connecter cables?

anyway, I was laughing at this-

"there is often a long wait while the operating system performs dismount operations. This wait can be several seconds long which can be frustrating to many users."

:rolleyes: they can't be seriousl

DELLsFan
Jul 23, 2009, 11:59 AM
I never gave un-mounting or "ejectng" thumb flash drives any thought, until the Mac started getting all cranky about it. It's funny though ... I see a few Windows folks clicking on that "SAFELY REMOVE HARDWARE" now before removing their thumb drives from their PC USB ports. :cool:

Shasterball
Jul 23, 2009, 12:00 PM
Now it will be easier to prank people by disconnecting their drives!!!

Jolly Jimmy
Jul 23, 2009, 12:02 PM
This is utterly pointless. Nowadays businesses patent everything and anything "just in case". This is definitely one of those things.

iphoneftw
Jul 23, 2009, 12:04 PM
simplicity from apple strikes again
and also another scheme for apple to get our cash by selling flash drives :cool:

illegallydead
Jul 23, 2009, 12:11 PM
Personally I hardly ever "eject" drives from my Mac. Just wait for the indicator light on the flash drive/HDD to stop blinking and you are good. I do this even on my precious Time Machine backup. NEVER had an issue with corrupted data. Yes, implementing synchronous transfers would be the best bet. But still, asynchronous is fast enough for me, it's not like OSX just sits on it's haunches thinking to itself "ooh... pretty wallpaper... ooh, what's that?" That is my job :p

the vj
Jul 23, 2009, 12:15 PM
The solution is more complex than the actual complex. I am agree, is unneeded and PC way of resolving the issue works just fine. I believe that by just deleting extra warnings problem resolve.

AidenShaw
Jul 23, 2009, 12:17 PM
Exactly! All they need to do is implement SYNCHRONOUS DATA WRITES. Windows writes the data to the drive immediately, so you can pull & go.

Windows (>= XP SP1) actually uses near-synchronous writes. There is some small caching done to speed up small writes, for the sake of speed. There is still a small chance that hot-removing a USB device from Windows will result in data loss, but IIRC we're talking about a few seconds at most.


If you use NTFS-formatted drives, Windows will default to delayed writes.

I recently copied a 9 GB VHD file to a 32 GB thumb drive. Took about 10 minutes, but the progress dialog stayed onscreen say "100%". Went away, came back 15 minutes later - still "100%" but not done.

Looked at the drive, and the activity light was blinking like crazy. Looked around at the system, and saw that I had 7.8 GB in the file cache - and that number slowly dropped as the cache was written to the thumb drive.

Peace
Jul 23, 2009, 12:23 PM
I don't think I'd be breaking my NDA but this sounds like a way to circumvent the problems I was having with a USB flash drive formatted using the ZFS filesystem. It simply would not unmount. When I tried it just corrupted the active pool. Perhaps Apple found a different way to give ZFS a command to unmount.

I know that probably doesn't make sense to most people but it makes a lot of sense to me. :)

Perhaps we will see the ZFS filesystem in a future build.

optophobia
Jul 23, 2009, 12:33 PM
I think the pull out method is safe enough ;)

casik
Jul 23, 2009, 01:30 PM
Am i the only one that things maybe they will put this right into the iPod/iPhone line ups? I can't tell you how many people have no idea they should eject their iPod or iPhone before removing it from their dock or USB cable...

Just a thought

track16
Jul 23, 2009, 01:55 PM
A bit of an aside on the patenting issue - I'm not totally convinced this is truly patentable (or perhaps more to the point, that it could be reasonably defended in court.) My understanding of our patent system is that an invention, among other things, must be novel - something that other's haven't even thought up yet. I thought of this because my grandfather, and electrical engineer, used to create various touch sensitive devices to use in his home for waving a hand across to perform a certain action. It was limited mostly to turning on and off lights and other simple appliances, but I understood from him at the time (this was 15 or so years back) this wasn't really cutting edge stuff - detection of a hand / finger / what have you, even those days, wasn't particularly novel with a very basic understanding of physics or electricity. So I also take issue with the blanket patenting approach. But then again, what companies don't do that these days (spoken above already).

I guess it's the "touch sensitivity" plus "usb unmount" combination which makes it novel??? I'm dubious.

JMax1
Jul 23, 2009, 03:12 PM
Sounds like data corruption just waiting to happen - unless there's a "code" or a "rhythm" to the touchs for it to be recognized as a dismount command.

"Shave and a haircut - dismount"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Shavenotes.png

I like it! Or how about the user says/hums "shave and a haircut..." and the computer replies by finishing the motif with "two bits," meaning you can safely remove your hardware.

For users who remember to use the proper dismount procedures, there is often a long wait while the operating system performs dismount operations. This wait can be several seconds long which can be frustrating to many users.

Several seconds!!! Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

dernhelm
Jul 23, 2009, 03:31 PM
Exactly! All they need to do is implement SYNCHRONOUS DATA WRITES. Windows writes the data to the drive immediately, so you can pull & go. The system realises "oh, the device is removed", so instead of throwing an error it cleans up the mount point.

OS X uses asynchronous writes... When you 'save' a file it isn't *really* 'saved' (written to disk) just then... it's cached in memory and written when convenient. Unmounting the disk forces a sync() to make sure the data is written to disk before it is pulled out.

Apple, just implement synchronous writes already and stop with the technological second-guessing. It's bad enough that the iPhone can't be locked to portrait or landscape, and may switch orientation when IT thinks you want to, rather than what you really want it to do. This touch-sensitive unmounting crap is unnecessary.

Ya know, I keep hearing that Windows doesn't require you to unmount USB drives, but I've lost data twice now without doing it. I'm not buying it completely - there's still something odd going on there.

bishboria
Jul 23, 2009, 03:41 PM
I too don't like the idea of auto-dismounting drives if my hand is near it. A gesture to remove the device may be better.

Eg. touch the device near the usb port, then slide your finger backwards to mimic removing the device from the port. That could work...

bishboria
Jul 23, 2009, 04:17 PM
I don't think I'd be breaking my NDA ...

That means you probably are breaking your NDA! :)

muskratboy
Jul 23, 2009, 04:25 PM
That is not correct. Windows does not require you to do this.

uh, yeah it does. windows XP DOES REQUIRE you to unmount the flash drive.

if you don't, it does the same bitchy thing the mac does.

and boy, do i HATE it when windows won't unmount the drive because it thinks something is using the files... even when nothing is.

don't know about vista... but xp sure DOES.

locust76
Jul 24, 2009, 01:14 AM
uh, yeah it does. windows XP DOES REQUIRE you to unmount the flash drive.

if you don't, it does the same bitchy thing the mac does.

and boy, do i HATE it when windows won't unmount the drive because it thinks something is using the files... even when nothing is.

don't know about vista... but xp sure DOES.

I work with Windows XP, Vista and 7 all day long. Neither requires dismount of a drive before removal (even SATA drives can be unplugged, at your own risk, of course, because hard drives can be treated differently by the OS than removable drives).

I don't know what you've got (Chinese counterfeit XP, maybe?), but I've never seen a version of Windows XP bitch about removal of flash drives. You have the OPTION to do so, but it's totally not necessary. As soon as you pull out the drive, all file handles are released by the OS, so Windows isn't gonna sit there and say "volume cannot be dismounted" or some such crap.

Ya know, I keep hearing that Windows doesn't require you to unmount USB drives, but I've lost data twice now without doing it. I'm not buying it completely - there's still something odd going on there.

Of course, you're gonna lose data if you copy a big file and pull the drive out in the middle of the copy process. Use your brain and wait until the process is finished before pulling the drive out. Nothing odd about that.

SeaFox
Jul 24, 2009, 01:29 AM
Win2k, WinNT and Win98 with USB support *did* require you to click on the green arrow in the systray and 'stop' the device. No different than clicking on the icon and ejecting it in OS X (2 steps). WinXP introduced the 'hot unplug' capability.

Soooo.. What you're saying is OSX has yet to learn to do something that Windows has been doing for eight years?

Droid13
Jul 24, 2009, 02:36 AM
I have to say, though, that this seems an overly complicated way of solving a problem that shouldn't exist - thumb drives shouldn't suffer or cause problems when they are removed unless it is in the middle of a write operation or something. And as has been pointed out, other operating systems cope well with this scenario already anyway.

It does look pretty cool though. Hope that if this gets implemented that it works with any form of removable storage, guess we'll just have to wait and see...

SeaFox
Jul 24, 2009, 03:14 AM
It does look pretty cool though. Hope that if this gets implemented that it works with any form of removable storage, guess we'll just have to wait and see...
ROFL. Of course it wont. The flash drive would have to have some way of sensing if you're touching it or not -- that's a hardware feature. And since the majority of computers are running an operating system that doesn't have this dismount issue, guess how many manufacturers are going to start adding that to a product that is essentially a flash memory chip in a plastic casing with a plug soldered on.

Everyone, I'm predicting it now: The Apple Flash Drive.

Made especially for the weakness present in OSX.

It will be slim, attractive, and only cost three or four times the competition does per GB. And people will buy it in droves because it has an Apple logo on it.

locust76
Jul 24, 2009, 03:41 AM
It will be slim, attractive, and only cost three or four times the competition does per GB. And people will buy it in droves because it has an Apple logo on it.

And you'll have to swirl your finger around on the Apple logo to get it to dismount. After some time, the oleophobic coating will wear off, causing the stick to overheat, discolor and burst into flames.

All while still mounted in the file system.

Droid13
Jul 24, 2009, 04:58 AM
ROFL. Of course it wont. The flash drive would have to have some way of sensing if you're touching it or not -- that's a hardware feature. And since the majority of computers are running an operating system that doesn't have this dismount issue, guess how many manufacturers are going to start adding that to a product that is essentially a flash memory chip in a plastic casing with a plug soldered on

Guess I was being a little naive - was hoping that the sensors could be on the laptop i.e. same basic idea but using something other than touching the drive.

If Apple doesn't produce an expensive thumb drive, they'll make something else that is also expensive. On that score, there is little doubt. If this gets implemented.

twoodcc
Jul 24, 2009, 06:17 AM
seems nice. i can see where your hand might get close to it, and it unmount when you don't want it to though

ActionJax
Jul 24, 2009, 07:36 AM
My guess is that they intend to use this on the iPod when disc mode is enabled, not a usb key..

Good call.