Apple Mac Pro 2010 - What would you like to see changed?

[ag55]

Similar thread in the iMac section, just wondering what people think will be included in the next Mac Pro, and what they would like to see.

Im not even sure if there will be a new one (im new to the :apple: game :)
But if there was, i would be happy with:

* Blu-Ray drive built in
* eSata
* USB 3.0

[MacMini2009]

Cheaper prices.

[Schtumple]

Single Core i7 CPU for the cheapest option, not a server version, I know this would require a new motherboard built, but seriously, it would be damn nice to have a cheaper Mac Pro.

[kellen]

I'm up in the air if I want a revision to the case. It just looks perfect how it is now. However they could use more ram slots for the quad core.

E-sata would be nice, but I need more USB ports. 3 on the back is kind of low.

Mic on the front as well.

[fireshot91]

It'll probably be late '10, if that.

But, I'd want to see a cheaper Mac Pro.
Stock Options as these:

Quad 2.93:

6GB RAM
720GB Hard Drive
$2200


Octad 2.66:
8GB RAM
1TB HD
$2800

Octad 2.93:
10GB RAM
1TB HD
$3800

[TheStrudel]

Im not even sure if there will be a new one (im new to the :apple: game :)
But if there was, i would be happy with:

* Blu-Ray drive built in
* eSata
* USB 3.0

This, plus Firewire 3200. And, of course, newer, better (more extensive?) graphics cards options.

Oh, and possibly more HDD bays. Maybe some 2.5" bays for SSDs? All else I could really ask for is built in RAID card functionality, but that's never going to happen.

[Bennieboy©]

cheaper, powered mic inputs, not usb, and blu-ray support :p

[remmy]

esata is a must, so many external drives have that as an option, sometimes without fw800. Comparing to my 2008 MP there is not a huge amount I would change except for cheaper and faster lol. Blueray would be useful for backing up but I dont know if it is still too expensive overall.

[Umbongo]

Single Core i7 CPU for the cheapest option, not a server version, I know this would require a new motherboard built, but seriously, it would be damn nice to have a cheaper Mac Pro.

The Core i7s work in the current Mac Pro. There is NO price difference between Core i7 and the Xeon 3500s Apple are using. Using Core i7 would mean offering both ECC and non ECC memory and Apple having to deal with both types. There would be no cost savings for the consumer.

[Icaras]

cheaper, powered mic inputs, not usb, and blu-ray support :p

Mic Inputs? No USB? What? :confused:

[Umbongo]

Its unclear if the Xeon 3600/5600 series will replace the current Xeon 3500/5500 series used in the Mac Pros. If they do then I think we can expect 6 and 12 core systems and not 4 and 8.

I want to see 12 memory slots, but at the very least they need to move to 9 so you get full bandwidth on all slots rather than this crippled version.

[Bennieboy©]

Mic Inputs? No USB? What? :confused:

proper powered mic inputs, i've got a G5 and i needed a usb audio input device to record, on a PC normal audio jacks are powered :p

[2002cbr600f4i]

I love my '09, but a few things I'd want to see done on a new model (some to fix current deficiencies, some just because of new tech coming out):

1) 4 PCI-E graphics card power plugs to support 2 high power cards (Open CL / multiple monitor high performance support without having to HACK it.)

2) USB 3.0

3) eSata

4) SATA3 (6G)

5) normal 5.1 sound outputs so you can use NORMAL 5.1 computer speaker setups

6) Blue Ray disk

Wouldn't mind seeing the new 6 core chips... More graphics card choices wouldn't be bad either!

[ag55]

Come to think of it a mic would be handy. And i can see a need for more USB ports too, any new device just takes one up and i dont like USB hubs, make setups look untidy.

Built in wi-fi card, if the iMac has got it then the pro should too.

[Bennieboy©]

Come to think of it a mic would be handy. And i can see a need for more USB ports too, any new device just takes one up and i dont like USB hubs, make setups look untidy.

Built in wi-fi card, if the iMac has got it then the pro should too.

dont the mac pro support airport extreme cards then?

[kellen]

IR for using the remote.

I would like it, as I use it to stream to my stereos and it would be nice to be able to remotely manage it without having a MBP or iphone to control it.

[TheStrudel]

1) 4 PCI-E graphics card power plugs to support 2 high power cards (Open CL / multiple monitor high performance support without having to HACK it.)

5) normal 5.1 sound outputs so you can use NORMAL 5.1 computer speaker setups

Wouldn't mind seeing the new 6 core chips... More graphics card choices wouldn't be bad either!

Agree with that first one, but isn't the sound outputs thing really the realm of PCIe sound card makers? Or alternatively, software revision to make surround sound in OS X work better with the toslink jack? I was hoping, a while back, that it might make it into 10.6, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

Surround sound through AAC is still broken, too, annoyingly enough.

[MacMini2009]

Its unclear if the Xeon 3600/5600 series will replace the current Xeon 3500/5500 series used in the Mac Pros. If they do then I think we can expect 6 and 12 core systems and not 4 and 8.

I want to see 12 memory slots, but at the very least they need to move to 9 so you get full bandwidth on all slots rather than this crippled version.

Do people really need 12 cores?

[Billydelp4]

Do people really need 12 cores?

if final cut will utilize all 12 then yes.

[Tallest Skil]

if final cut will utilize all 12 then yes.

Exactly. As long as applications have improved performance with additional cores, there will always be a need for additional cores.

[ventro]

New case design with dust filter
Support for PC video cards
Front facing bootable SD Card slot
SSD Bays in addition to standard drive bays (kill the second drive bay, nobody uses it)
Quieter fans
Black keyed, backlit keyboard
Aluminum mighty mouse

[Dr.Pants]

Currently holding out on 12 cores, TYVM. Oh, by the way, yes, that's the main thing I want in a new MacPro. Nothing like a heater in the winter and your own personal render farm!:):D

With twelve cores I would imagine would be additional heat that would have to be exchanged; maybe the "cheese grater" could have an algorithm run through it to keep its structure similar but maximise airflow if it hasn't been done already (which I bet it has).

Oh, and an on-board Intel NIC - the current Realtek one works, but... Realtek... ((I COULD be wrong on this, but I was sure it was Realtek)) Maybe even a built-in 10 Gb/s connection :D Solve all my potential data-transfer problems!

And the demise of MiniDisplayPort and the Apple RAID card, since I'm dreaming.

What else... a pony?:p

EDIT - ONE LAST IMPORTANT THING!
More PCIe lanes. Make 'em x16, x16, x8, x4, at the very LEAST.

[miiles]

I'd love to see a cheaper Mac Pro.

[Umbongo]

Currently holding out on 12 cores, TYVM. Oh, by the way, yes, that's the main thing I want in a new MacPro. Nothing like a heater in the winter and your own personal render farm!:):D

With twelve cores I would imagine would be additional heat that would have to be exchanged; maybe the "cheese grater" could have an algorithm run through it to keep its structure similar but maximise airflow if it hasn't been done already (which I bet it has).

They are moving to a 32nm process, there won't be huge TDPs on these processors. The Mac Pro has handled 150W in the past.

[Eithanius]

They are moving to a 32nm process, there won't be huge TDPs on these processors. The Mac Pro has handled 150W in the past.

And from my experience, Mac Pro with two 150W TDP processors like the Clovertown ain't that environmentally friendly.

The upcoming 5600-series Gulftown has a TDP rating of 130W, so most likely Apple will list this as a CTO option on top of the present Gainestown at reduced price, or probably Intel's unannounced lower Gulftown series.

[JamesGorman]

New case design with dust filter
Support for PC video cards
Front facing bootable SD Card slot
SSD Bays in addition to standard drive bays (kill the second drive bay, nobody uses it)
Quieter fans
Black keyed, backlit keyboard
Aluminum mighty mouse

Love the keyboard idea!! Thats exactly what I need sometimes.

[wpc33]

If they make a cheaper Mac Pro, I will definitely buy new, new, instead of legacy, used.
The mathematical formula for this hypothesis is, Me + :apple: = :)

PS: Ventro, you are a genius. Black, backlit keyboard is something they could sell to everybody, including me, and is such a good idea that it feels almost inevitable...I hope.

[Hellhammer]

- Cheaper low-end model

- SSD and bigger HD options

- 20" and 30" LED displays

- New Mighty Mouse and keyboard

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

- Cheaper low-end model

- SSD and bigger HD options

- 20" and 30" LED displays

- New Mighty Mouse and keyboard

Amen to all those points.

[Schtumple]

The Core i7s work in the current Mac Pro. There is NO price difference between Core i7 and the Xeon 3500s Apple are using. Using Core i7 would mean offering both ECC and non ECC memory and Apple having to deal with both types. There would be no cost savings for the consumer.

Fair enough, I thought the Xeons were more expensive than the i7s, I guess then I'd like to see a C2Q in there then, something higher than the C2Ds in the iMacs, but cheaper than the Xeons currently used.

[surflordca]

Cheaper prices.


I vote for this...

[2002cbr600f4i]

Agree with that first one, but isn't the sound outputs thing really the realm of PCIe sound card makers? Or alternatively, software revision to make surround sound in OS X work better with the toslink jack? I was hoping, a while back, that it might make it into 10.6, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

Surround sound through AAC is still broken, too, annoyingly enough.

My frustration with the audio hookups is that the Pro doesn't use the PC Standard 3 mini-din jacks for 5.1 sound (Front L/R, Rear L/R, Sub/center). As such, if you want surround sound, you either gotta hook the pro up to a full-on stereo setup, or buy the ONLY computer 5.1 setup that takes TOS-Link input - the Logiteck Z-5500...

I game on my Pro (under Windows 7) and really need 5.1 sound, but as things currently stand, I'm stuck. I've got 2 5.1 computer speaker setups, I'm not about to drop ANOTHER $300 on the Z-5500's. Just annoying!!!! I COULD go get a SB X-Fi PCI-E card, but then I'd have to switch back and forth the speaker setups when playing stuff in Windows vs. OSX.

I just don't get why a computer that is sold mostly for audio/video professionals has such CRAP audio out options!

[10THzMac]

An option for a bigger case, and PSU, with lots of slots for BIG GPUs.

More cores, and more emphasis on speed and engineering than how it looks.

[J the Ninja]

My frustration with the audio hookups is that the Pro doesn't use the PC Standard 3 mini-din jacks for 5.1 sound (Front L/R, Rear L/R, Sub/center). As such, if you want surround sound, you either gotta hook the pro up to a full-on stereo setup, or buy the ONLY computer 5.1 setup that takes TOS-Link input - the Logiteck Z-5500...

I game on my Pro (under Windows 7) and really need 5.1 sound, but as things currently stand, I'm stuck. I've got 2 5.1 computer speaker setups, I'm not about to drop ANOTHER $300 on the Z-5500's. Just annoying!!!! I COULD go get a SB X-Fi PCI-E card, but then I'd have to switch back and forth the speaker setups when playing stuff in Windows vs. OSX.

I just don't get why a computer that is sold mostly for audio/video professionals has such CRAP audio out options!

Because no sane audio professional would use the integrated audio.

[VirtualRain]

- A keyboard with a multi-touch pad or a touch pad accessory- USB 3.0
- Additional PCIe power connectors for a 2nd high-end card
- Dual-socket CPU card with only 1 CPU so you can expand it later
- More monitor choices
- More GPU choices
- More storage options:

eSATA
Another row of drive sleds (8 total)
Sleds that take 3.5 or 2.5 inch drives
6GB/s SATA inteface

[Cynicalone]

How about a row of 2.5" drive bay's above the 3.5" drive bay's.
More RAM slots would be nice, I can always use more RAM.
More Ports, USB, FW, add some ESATA.

[Shake 'n' Bake]

Here's my wishlist:

1. New case. The current one has been around since 2003.

2. Better GPUs.

3. Option up to 3.2 GHz.

4. eSATA would be nice.

5. SSD drive bays.

6. Blu-Ray, which I believe is coming with the next refresh.

7. Maybe a new keyboard and mouse.

8. A single and dual processor Core i7 version. Starting at $2099 or less. Get rid of the 20'' iMac and slide everything down.

9. More RAM slots on the quad core.

[theimacdude]

If just ONE Mac had to have Blu Ray, it'd be the Mac Pro.
Apple need Blu Ray in their computers!

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

- Cheaper low-end model

- SSD and bigger HD options

- 20" and 30" LED displays

- New Mighty Mouse and keyboard

Amen to all those points.

[RebootD]

+Base Quad model $1,899-$2,199, Base Octo $2,699-$2,899

+DDR3 is multiple of THREE slots (6 Quad / 12 Octo) like every other server grade system

+ at least a $100 GPU standard (whatever is available at the time)

Those would be my main items. The rest like the case design, dust filter, 5.1 audio etc would be nice but not a dealbreaker.

[Mac Hammer Fan]

same case (no need for a change)
better stock video card and more choices for upgrade
SATA 3, 1 SSD drive bay and 4 HD drive bays
USB 3.0
Quad Core with 6 RAM slots and ability to add a second CPU so that you have an Octo
Built-in Airport

[Mac Hammer Fan]

deleted 2nd post

[Shake 'n' Bake]

same case (no need for a change)
better stock video card and more choices for upgrade
SATA 3, 1 SSD drive bay and 4 HD drive bays
USB 3.0
Quad Core with 6 RAM slots and ability to add a second CPU so that you have an Octo
Airport stand built-in

What is an AirPort stand?

And it would be best for the quad and octo had the same amount of RAM slots.

[Umbongo]

What is an AirPort stand?

And it would be best for the quad and octo had the same amount of RAM slots.

Probably meant AirPort built in as standard. Which will not happen because there are buyers who will not purchase them with the hardware even in the system. There is no reason for Apple to add cost to a system on their end when they do not need that feature to sell them.

As for the memory the way the memory controllers work you are looking at 6 DIMMs max for a one socket system and 12 for a two socket in a Mac Pro.

[Shake 'n' Bake]

As for the memory the way the memory controllers work you are looking at 6 DIMMs max for a one socket system and 12 for a two socket in a Mac Pro.

Is that because there is only one memory controller? If so, why not modify the Nehalem architecture, when Westmere, I think it is, comes around for one and two memory controller applications?

[TheStrudel]

My frustration with the audio hookups is that the Pro doesn't use the PC Standard 3 mini-din jacks for 5.1 sound (Front L/R, Rear L/R, Sub/center). As such, if you want surround sound, you either gotta hook the pro up to a full-on stereo setup, or buy the ONLY computer 5.1 setup that takes TOS-Link input - the Logiteck Z-5500...

I just don't get why a computer that is sold mostly for audio/video professionals has such CRAP audio out options!

I agree with you, but at the same time, if you have to have a receiver anyway, why are we still bothering with 3 minijacks? It's kind of like the VGA port at this point. Replaced by much better alternatives, but still built into everything.

Worth noting is that you could go surround out into any receiver (think of the many home theater receivers that take TOSLINK in) via optical cable. So you don't have to get that one system. But the problem is that OS X doesn't support surround properly - my system works only with a few specific apps. I can't monitor surround in say, soundtrack, via TOSLINK because software support isn't there. That bothers me more. You can only do it through a much more expensive USB/firewire mixing board with a lot of other stuff.

This isn't exactly the most popular position, but I do think that some old ports and standards need to disappear as hardware gets revised. The VGA port's shelf life ended at least half a decade ago. It needs to not get built onto any more hardware. DVI will stick around longer, which is not a bad thing, but DVI was vastly superior and it took longer than it should have to gain traction. Floppy disks stuck around too long, and optical media will probably persist longer than we want as well.

In fact, I wouldn't even mind if DVI was completely discontinued at this point, as long as all the companies started firing on the new standard at the same time. I think we'd all find Mini Display Port less objectionable if everything was being produced for it (seriously, though, was mini strictly necessary?). It's not impossible, but it'd be nice to see our connections unified.

[Umbongo]

Is that because there is only one memory controller? If so, why not modify the Nehalem architecture, when Westmere, I think it is, comes around for one and two memory controller applications?

The memory controller is on the processor (i.e out of Apple's control). It can connect to 3 memory channels. Each channel supports 3 DIMMs. With one processor that means a maximum of 9 memory slots, with two processors 18. However for workstations 12 is really the optimal number as if you put 3 DIMMs on any channel the maximum memory speed is 800MHz and without registered memory you are taking a performance hit too. 9 would have been a better option that 8, 6 connected to one processor and 3 to the other.

Apple crippled the memory on the Mac Pro. With 8 memory slots populating them all means no memory works at triple channel speed and they don't support 1333MHz memory on the 2.66Ghz and 2.93Ghz Octos.

[2002cbr600f4i]

I agree with you, but at the same time, if you have to have a receiver anyway, why are we still bothering with 3 minijacks? It's kind of like the VGA port at this point. Replaced by much better alternatives, but still built into everything.

Worth noting is that you could go surround out into any receiver (think of the many home theater receivers that take TOSLINK in) via optical cable. So you don't have to get that one system. But the problem is that OS X doesn't support surround properly - my system works only with a few specific apps. I can't monitor surround in say, soundtrack, via TOSLINK because software support isn't there. That bothers me more. You can only do it through a much more expensive USB/firewire mixing board with a lot of other stuff.



Ok, I dont' want to take over the thread... Yes, I know you can use the TOSLINK to a stereo receiver. THe thing is, WHY?? Why couldn't they just use the STANDARD PC audio 5.1 hookup that EVERY OTHER COMPUTER uses? Not to mention, I don't WANT another stereo receiver just to act as an amp, especially when I have 2 other computer 5.1 (including a THX one) systems.

It amazes me that OSX doesn't really even support 5.1 correctly. Just plain SAD!

[leekohler]

Single Core i7 CPU for the cheapest option, not a server version, I know this would require a new motherboard built, but seriously, it would be damn nice to have a cheaper Mac Pro.

Agreed a million times over. It's time for a cheaper tower.

[Topper]

.
HD 5870 X2
.

[Cynicalone]

Agreed a million times over. It's time for a cheaper tower.

The Mac Pro Lite, X-Mac, etc...

Apple seems to have no interest in this. Shame since I think it would be an excellent market for them.

[zedsdead]

- Cheaper low-end model

- SSD and bigger HD options

- 20" and 30" LED displays

- New Mighty Mouse and keyboard

This.

Plus the inclusion of Firewire 1600/3200 or eSata and Blu-Ray now that Compressor supports it.

[Trev311]

price/performance ratio on par with the 2008 models
One 2.5" bay (in addition to the 4 3.5")
All Firewire to 3200
A couple more USB ports and all 3.0 (is the spec finalized yet?)
More PCIe lanes (how about all x16!)
Additional PCIe power connectors for using 2 Graphics cards
A couple more BTO graphics cards
RAM slots that make sense with the memory arch.
SATA 3 (6 Gb/s)
At least one eSATA port
Blu-ray burner as BTO (since there is software support for burning why not have it as an option?)

Drop the single socket all together and return to the 8-core standard like it was before.

Now the possibility of this actually happening? Slim to none. Especially the ones I mentioned first and last happening at the same time.

[ag55]

price/performance ratio on par with the 2008 models
One 2.5" bay (in addition to the 4 3.5")
All Firewire to 3200
A couple more USB ports and all 3.0 (is the spec finalized yet?)
More PCIe lanes (how about all x16!)
Additional PCIe power connectors for using 2 Graphics cards
A couple more BTO graphics cards
RAM slots that make sense with the memory arch.
SATA 3 (6 Gb/s)
At least one eSATA port
Blu-ray burner as BTO (since there is software support for burning why not have it as an option?)

Drop the single socket all together and return to the 8-core standard like it was before.

Now the possibility of this actually happening? Slim to none. Especially the ones I mentioned first and last happening at the same time.

And keeping the price down with all that, sadly never going to happen :(

[leekohler]

The Mac Pro Lite, X-Mac, etc...

Apple seems to have no interest in this. Shame since I think it would be an excellent market for them.

It's their loss. I'm not paying $2,600-3,000 for a tower. I absolutely refuse.

[Diseal3]

I think it will be cheaper since apple wants to save you a whole $100 now or days. If they don't introduce any type of tower that AFFORDABLE ill make one =).

[leekohler]

I think it will be cheaper since apple wants to save you a whole $100 now or days. If they don't introduce any type of tower that AFFORDABLE ill make one =).

I think a lot of people are going this route.

[Topper]

They are no longer called Apple Computer.
Take a look at MacRumors home page.
Most of the topics (rumors) are about iPod and iPhone.
If it wasn't for Snow Leopard, I wouldn't even know that Apple is in the computer business.
Well, maybe Apple has some interest in their notebooks but not too much with their desktops.

http://homepage.mac.com/ctopper/.Pictures/MacRumors.jpg

[Demonfart]

I'd like to see an "anti-whining-about-the-price-point" device on the new Mac Pros. That would be fantastic!

In all seriousness though:
* Blu-ray
* An actual usable mouse (something like the MX Revolution sans-LCC)
* Wireless keyboard with number pad
* Quieter superdrive
* Internal unicorns (ponies for the base model of course, upgradeable to unicorns)

[Tallest Skil]

[LIST]
price/performance ratio on par with the 2008 models
One 2.5" bay (in addition to the 4 3.5")
All Firewire to 3200
A couple more USB ports and all 3.0 (is the spec finalized yet?)
More PCIe lanes (how about all x16!)
Additional PCIe power connectors for using 2 Graphics cards
A couple more BTO graphics cards
RAM slots that make sense with the memory arch.
SATA 3 (6 Gb/s)
At least one eSATA port
Blu-ray burner as BTO (since there is software support for burning why not have it as an option?)

1. Nope.
2. Why? They'd rather have a 1.8" area on the logic board for an optional SSD boot drive.
3. Eh... I don't see FireWire existing much longer.
4. Yes, a PC motherboard ships with them now.
5. Want? Yes. Will see? Doubtful.
6. Nope.
7. Eh?
8. Let's see some drives that can use it first.
9. Nope.
10. Okay, why do you want a SEVEN HUNDRED dollar option for a $150 drive?

[dipm06]

1. Nope.
2. Why? They'd rather have a 1.8" area on the logic board for an optional SSD boot drive.
3. Eh... I don't see FireWire existing much longer.
4. Yes, a PC motherboard ships with them now.
5. Want? Yes. Will see? Doubtful.
6. Nope.
7. Eh?
8. Let's see some drives that can use it first.
9. Nope.
10. Okay, why do you want a SEVEN HUNDRED dollar option for a $150 drive?

why is there a greater chance of seeing 1.8 drives on the mother board? wouldnt you think that 2.5 drives would be smarter considering most SSD are that size? And no, PC motherboards dont ship with usb 3.0 yet. they wont be until next year. There are plenty of drives that can use eSATA. what do you mean you want to see drives that support it first? the memory slots to be in factors of three is also a great idea. i dont get your reasoning behind any of what you said.

[Trev311]

1. Nope.
2. Why? They'd rather have a 1.8" area on the logic board for an optional SSD boot drive.
3. Eh... I don't see FireWire existing much longer.
4. Yes, a PC motherboard ships with them now.
5. Want? Yes. Will see? Doubtful.
6. Nope.
7. Eh?
8. Let's see some drives that can use it first.
9. Nope.
10. Okay, why do you want a SEVEN HUNDRED dollar option for a $150 drive?

You're numbering seems to be a little bit off here, but whatever..

I know that the price/performance ratio probably won't go back, but this is what I'd like to see.

I don't much understand why they'd want the 1.8" drive seeing as the major SSDs all seem to be 2.5"

Firewire is still massively useful to the music community and given the recent update to Logic (which seems to be well accepted from what I've read) they still care about that market at least a little.

I haven't seen any USB 3.0 devices or motherboards and didn't think they had even started production yet. If someone would like to prove me wrong then go right ahead because advancements are always good!

The additional PCIe lanes and power connections would make sense for OpenCL type applications using a PCIe Cell processor (which is actually for sale!) or the Tesla card.

I feel like you skipped the memory architecture point I made, but maybe that is just a mistake in my reading your post. With the current design I think the single socket makes most sense with 6 slots and dual with 12 (little things like this would help me to justify the greater relative price to the 2008 models).

eSATA would nice as more and more external enclosures support that and it is native speed for the drive.

I was under the impression that SSDs are fast approaching the limitations of SATA II and so SATA III would only make sense.

Lastly the Blu-ray burner wouldn't be so much for me, but for those who want to buy the computer and never want to put anything else in it or don't want to have an extra burner laying around when taking one out. I'm sure it would be over priced as many of the BTO options from Apple are, but supporting something in software and not selling any hardware at all that can utilize said software just seems backwards to me.

[dipm06]

You're numbering seems to be a little bit off here, but whatever..

I know that the price/performance ratio probably won't go back, but this is what I'd like to see.

I don't much understand why they'd want the 1.8" drive seeing as the major SSDs all seem to be 2.5"

Firewire is still massively useful to the music community and given the recent update to Logic (which seems to be well accepted from what I've read) they still care about that market at least a little.

I haven't seen any USB 3.0 devices or motherboards and didn't think they had even started production yet. If someone would like to prove me wrong then go right ahead because advancements are always good!

The additional PCIe lanes and power connections would make sense for OpenCL type applications using a PCIe Cell processor (which is actually for sale!) or the Tesla card.

I feel like you skipped the memory architecture point I made, but maybe that is just a mistake in my reading your post. With the current design I think the single socket makes most sense with 6 slots and dual with 12 (little things like this would help me to justify the greater relative price to the 2008 models).

eSATA would nice as more and more external enclosures support that and it is native speed for the drive.

I was under the impression that SSDs are fast approaching the limitations of SATA II and so SATA III would only make sense.

Lastly the Blu-ray burner wouldn't be so much for me, but for those who want to buy the computer and never want to put anything else in it or don't want to have an extra burner laying around when taking one out. I'm sure it would be over priced as many of the BTO options from Apple are, but supporting something in software and not selling any hardware at all that can utilize said software just seems backwards to me.

You've stated some of the things in my post in greater detail =P

[Trev311]

You've stated some of the things in my post in greater detail =P

Yeah, sorry about that.


* An actual usable mouse (something like the MX Revolution sans-LCC)
* Wireless keyboard with number pad
* Internal unicorns (ponies for the base model of course, upgradeable to unicorns)

These! For something so normal like a mouse I really would have expected Apple to put out something that "just works". I really wish the new style (chiclet IIRC) wireless keyboard had the number pad like the older ones. Unicorns! We all need unicorns inside our computers that is how they will be magically powered thus even more green!

They are no longer called Apple Computer.
Take a look at MacRumors home page.
Most of the topics (rumors) are about iPod and iPhone.
If it wasn't for Snow Leopard, I wouldn't even know that Apple is in the computer business.
Well, maybe Apple has some interest in their notebooks but not too much with their desktops.


While I see your point and I am greatly distressed about this many signs still point to the computer side of life. All of iTunes is computer based because Apple is smart enough to realize that the vast majority of people shopping on iTunes are most likely doing so from a Windows computer. I think Snow Leopard, the updates across the board earlier this year (remember how many people said the Mac Mini was surely dead and were already bemoaning the fact?), and the recent updates to the "Pro" applications still show a steady dedication to the computer "leg" of the business.

[VirtualRain]

I'd like to see an "anti-whining-about-the-price-point" device on the new Mac Pros. That would be fantastic!


+1 :D

If Apple can't implement this feature maybe MacRumors can?!

[Dr.Pants]

The additional PCIe lanes and power connections would make sense for OpenCL type applications using a PCIe Cell processor (which is actually for sale!) or the Tesla card.

This needs support in OSX immidiatly. Unfortunatly, guess who makes Cell? IBM... :( And I don't think either company is happy at the other one :rolleyes:

Still, I think that we ALL know the MacPro is overpriced. We all want a cheaper one - who doesn't! Post in "Is the MacPro WAY overpriced?" so that we can keep this discussion purly on hardware.

[Trev311]

This needs support in OSX immidiatly. Unfortunatly, guess who makes Cell? IBM... :( And I don't think either company is happy at the other one :rolleyes:

Still, I think that we ALL know the MacPro is overpriced. We all want a cheaper one - who doesn't! Post in "Is the MacPro WAY overpriced?" so that we can keep this discussion purly on hardware.

If Apple were to throw enough money at them IBM would certainly help with the integration of the Cell. Toshiba is also a partner on the Cell project and it seems that they have a good relationship with Apple. How great would it be if they could have the Cell as a standard coprocessor on the MacPro? The wonders that could do for the video apps...

[Dr.Pants]

If Apple were to throw enough money at them IBM would certainly help with the integration of the Cell. Toshiba is also a partner on the Cell project and it seems that they have a good relationship with Apple. How great would it be if they could have the Cell as a standard coprocessor on the MacPro? The wonders that could do for the video apps...

Exactly what I was thinking :D:D:):D I can imagine just buying a MacPro to run headless for rendering... ah, the bliss. Maybe, just maybe Nuke would support it:confused::eek: Probably not; would support for a coprocessor card not just have to be written in the driver and in the OS, but also for the program itself?

[kntgsp]

After skimming this thread:

1. USB 3.0 mobos already exist. Although sparingly and obviously only on the PC side. As far as I know, there are no USB 3.0 devices though.

2. I can see Apple skipping over the 6-core with the Nehalem die shrink in favor of Sandy Bridge. If they offer the 6-core they'd probably bump the whole lineup to the 32nm die shrink. Other than that the real "wow...holy..sh.." factor will be with Sandy Bridge.

3. Agreed that they need two more PCIe power ports for two high end cards.

4. Base models need to have more than 3GB RAM. 3GB RAM in a workstation way into 2K and 3K territory is absolutely laughable. Especially with RAM prices, ECC or not.

5. A mini tower could be averted if they'd simply offer decent GPUs in the iMacs for the people who want to game. That and tossing a Quad Core in them, even if it is a Penryn. Or they could use a Nehalem with HT disabled (would drop the temps low enough to work in that enclosure). Either way, the GPU offerings in the iMacs need to be improved.

That's about all I can remember at the moment. May edit to add more later.

[cube]

One thing that has always contributed to my not getting a PowerMac G5/Mac Pro are the optical drive slits. I don't like that, I want plain bays.

[skyline r34]

I saved up $6700 and I will be selling my 2008 3.2Ghz Mac Pro that should bring the total close to $10,000 that should be way more enough for 2010 Mac Pro, The hardware I like to see is Blu-Ray standard, have the latest GPU as PC at the same time, revised case and a soundcard.

[J the Ninja]

One thing that has always contributed to my not getting a PowerMac G5/Mac Pro are the optical drive slits. I don't like that, I want plain bays.

What difference does it make?

[cube]

What difference does it make?

You don't have doubts about messing with bezels, and it also allows to put other things, like a half-height LTO drive.

[cube]

BTW, I want SAS ports. At the Mac Pro's price, that's what their SATA should be.

[alam]

They are no longer called Apple Computer.
Take a look at MacRumors home page.
Most of the topics (rumors) are about iPod and iPhone.
If it wasn't for Snow Leopard, I wouldn't even know that Apple is in the computer business.
Well, maybe Apple has some interest in their notebooks but not too much with their desktops.

http://homepage.mac.com/ctopper/.Pictures/MacRumors.jpg

100%

apple is pretty excited about their iphone & ipod touch, then the notebooks and i think by the next year apple will say we don't want desktop anymore, later they will give up notebooks and just go 4 a newer ipod touch & iphone.

[leekohler]

+1 :D

If Apple can't implement this feature maybe MacRumors can?!

It's a valid complaint. If anything, we should be screaming louder about it.

[TheStrudel]

BTW, I want SAS ports. At the Mac Pro's price, that's what their SATA should be.

Don't you mean built-in hardware support for SAS, or built in hardware RAID? If all you need to do is add their RAID card, technically they are SAS ports. Just crippled SAS ports.

[gugucom]

2008 pricing
full blu-ray support
HD carriers for 2,5 and 3,5"
EFI support for Gulftown CPUs
FW 3200, USB 3.0
more space in first PCIe slot to CPU/RAM bay
4 PCIe power connectors
2 ATI and 2 NVIDIA BTO and after market graphics cards working in all Mac Pros
using standardized DDR3 memory of highest clock per CPU
6 SATA III ports capable of eSATA
SD-card reader with boot capability
AHCI drivers in Bootcamp

[Trev311]

Exactly what I was thinking :D:D:):D I can imagine just buying a MacPro to run headless for rendering... ah, the bliss. Maybe, just maybe Nuke would support it:confused::eek: Probably not; would support for a coprocessor card not just have to be written in the driver and in the OS, but also for the program itself?

Indeed, a MacPro with an on-board cell, two 8 core Sandy Bridge cpu's and a Nvida Tesla card would be a pretty amazing beast. Though as I understand it, the OS and the program would both have to be written to handle that power otherwise it would go to waste.

Apple rumors seem to swell around the iPhone/iPod and the mystery product(s) that everyone seems to love to discuss. I think the major reason for this is that with Intel there is now a published roadmap and the updates to the MacPro are generally going to follow that roadmap. Since Apple has more control over the iPhone/iPod lines rumors will swirl more since there are less facts to go on. Remember the thread about what would be on the 2009 MacPro? There was tons of information (and speculation) in that thread, but how many front page rumors where there in that time? The time and processor has become easier (not perfect though) to predict for the "workstation" computer so there are less rumors going on about it.

[cube]

Don't you mean built-in hardware support for SAS

Yes. Like a $300 Core i7 mobo.

[Big Boss Man]

I would like to see Apple update the 30" ACD and then provide a video card for the Mac Pro that can run two of the updated 30" ACDs.

[patpro]

If ZFS ever comes to Mac OS X, I would love getting rid of those 4 3.5" HD trays to gain 10 2.5" HD trays, with native support for mixed SAS (yummy savvio) and SATA disks.
Next feature: I would love total silence (no GPU fan, etc.)

I have no use for eSATA, but I've to admit, one external port would not hurt.

[Trev311]

Yes. Like a $300 Core i7 mobo.
Exactly!

If ZFS ever comes to Mac OS X, I would love getting rid of those 4 3.5" HD trays to gain 10 2.5" HD trays, with native support for mixed SAS (yummy savvio) and SATA disks.
Next feature: I would love total silence (no GPU fan, etc.)

I have no use for eSATA, but I've to admit, one external port would not hurt.

I don't see why we couldn't have something like a best of both worlds with a few of the 3.5" and a few of the 2.5" (or even just one to start). The ability to mix and match SAS and SATA drives is one that I left off my list but would definitely be nice to have. While at it, why not just integrate the RAID card? :D

[patpro]

I don't see why we couldn't have something like a best of both worlds with a few of the 3.5" and a few of the 2.5" (or even just one to start).

Just one 2.5" is useless (for me). I want RAID6 (or RAIDZ) of 2.5" = I need at least 4, and 6 would be great.

The ability to mix and match SAS and SATA drives is one that I left off my list but would definitely be nice to have. While at it, why not just integrate the RAID card? :D

hmm, ZFS is enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Storage_pools

[nanofrog]

hmm, ZFS is enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Storage_pools
ZFS was supposed to be included in the Server edition of Snow Leopard, but Apple has since pulled it. I presume they couldn't get HFS/+ to work with it properly.

So it's not going to show up just yet. :(

[Trev311]

Just one 2.5" is useless (for me). I want RAID6 (or RAIDZ) of 2.5" = I need at least 4, and 6 would be great.



hmm, ZFS is enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Storage_pools

The only reason I said just one to start is because I don't think it would be wise to completely drop the 3.5" so soon. That said I don't know if they would redesign the case to be big enough to hold 4 and 4. As someone else already said they could drop the second optical disk drive, but that would only free up enough room for two right?

Also ZFS would be enough, but I would think someone would want RAID 5/50 which still wouldn't be quite the same with RAIDZ.


ZFS was supposed to be included in the Server edition of Snow Leopard, but Apple has since pulled it. I presume they couldn't get HFS/+ to work with it properly.

So it's not going to show up just yet. :(

This is one of the single most disappointing things about Snow Leopard so far. I only hope there aren't too many other disappointments.

[Dr.Pants]

[ZFS] is one of the single most disappointing things about Snow Leopard so far. I only hope there aren't too many other disappointments.

Yes indeed. I was really looking forward to this as well - more along the lines of RAID Z/Z2, but those (I would imagine) require the ZFS filesystem. Perhaps sometime in the future :(

[nanofrog]

- more along the lines of RAID Z/Z2, but those (I would imagine) require the ZFS filesystem. :(
Yes, this is the case.

[patpro]

ZFS was supposed to be included in the Server edition of Snow Leopard, but Apple has since pulled it.

Yep, that's why I've started my first post with "If ZFS ever comes to Mac OS X".
That's sad, like many others here, I was really looking forward to this feature.

About dropping 3.5" support, it's not a major issue to me, I'm really more interested in the ability to mix SAS and SATA than in the ability to mix 2.5" and 3.5".
But in a perfect world, the next Mac Pro would support a mix of SAS/SATA in 2.5" and 3.5. May be 2 3.5" for SATA terabyte HD and 4 or 6 2.5" for fast IO (SAS, SSD).
Lets keep dreaming. My tower is still a G5 with only 2 HD slots.

[zmttoxics]

I use ZFS all day long. I love Solaris. :)

Anyways, I wish we could get a price cut just like everybody else. I keep saying no to the pro for its price tag.

[kraftzwerg]

definitely cheaper prices - I find the current pricing outrageous - and did you see what they charge for a 1 TB hard drive?

should offer BTO hard drives in 1.5 and 2 TB sizes at reasonable prices ...

also, they should offer the NVIDIA 285 as a BTO option - they sell it in the Apple Store, why not make it an upgrade option when ordering?

all of this really must be done rather sooner than later - there's absolutely no reason for waiting until 2010 and they are annoying customers

[Tallest Skil]

BTO hard drives... ...at reasonable prices...

Not happening.

also, they should offer the NVIDIA 285 as a BTO option - they sell it in the Apple Store, why not make it an upgrade option when ordering?

Because it wasn't out when they released the computer. Apple doesn't update the Mac Pro between processor changes.

[iMacmatician]

Apple doesn't update the Mac Pro between processor changes.I think they silently added a 750 GB HDD option in late 2006, but that's all I can think of. Certainly nothing major.

[kraftzwerg]

I think they silently added a 750 GB HDD option in late 2006, but that's all I can think of. Certainly nothing major.

They should do more silent adding. I really don't get why that's a problem for them.

[Tallest Skil]

They should do more silent adding. I really don't get why that's a problem for them.

Not doing it keeps the value of the computer higher.

[RebootD]

Not doing it keeps the value of the computer higher.

Or it keeps enough people from buying the current machine. How many 'waiting for X architecture' threads have we seen?

I know I'm not buying a Mac Pro 12mo after it was released at the same price point, it's ridiculous.

[Stephen73]

The Mac Pro Lite, X-Mac, etc...

Apple seems to have no interest in this. Shame since I think it would be an excellent market for them.

I'd buy something like this in a heartbeat...

http://www.impasto.co.za/misc/Mac-Maxi.jpg

[TheSilencer]

I'd buy something like this in a heartbeat...

http://www.impasto.co.za/misc/Mac-Maxi.jpg

+1 *wants*

Yeah, won´t happen.

[MythicFrost]

I'd like to see some nice 1TB solid state drives, 30 inch displays with a camera / mic in them, faster ram than 1066MHz, 1200,1400,1600 would be nice...?

i7 octo with @ 3.2GHz/3.4GHz, 12-16MB L3 cache.. gtx 295 2GB?

I'd like to see something like that, and of course, a lot cheaper!

I always wondered, what's the "Bus speed" for??? (I assume it's the fsb) but what does it actually do? and also what's the L3 cache do better than an L2 cache?

I've also been wondering why apple don't have 1600MHz ram :O

Kind Regards

[nanofrog]

The only 1TB SSD I'm aware of ATM, is the recent press release on the OCZ Colossus. The estimated cost is $2500USD, so a tad steep. ;)

[Dr.Pants]

30 inch displays with a camera / mic in them....

I think not. Apple is smart enough to keep their monitors from having sound, as generally monitor sound sucks. Mic maybe nice, but at the same time, does MiniDisplayPort really need some more junk attached to it?

i7 octo with @ 3.2GHz/3.4GHz, 12-16MB L3 cache.. gtx 295 2GB?

You can have your 295 and eat it too with an injector, methinks.

I always wondered, what's the "Bus speed" for??? (I assume it's the fsb) but what does it actually do? and also what's the L3 cache do better than an L2 cache?

Bus speed is the number of cycles that a data path can trasmit data; a 100 Byte/cycle lane operating at 400 cycles/second will transmit 40,000 Bytes/second.

If a processor has an L3 cache, it has an L2 cache. Basically memory on the CPU, enabling it to fetch common/recent values much faster then accessing memory.

I've also been wondering why apple don't have 1600MHz ram :O

Probably made their (outdated) EFI unstable.

[Umbongo]

I've also been wondering why apple don't have 1600MHz ram :O

Kind Regards

Because it's not supported on Xeons and there is no 1600MHz ECC memory for them to offer. 1333MHz isn't even supported on 3 out of the 5 processors they offer and isn't on the other two if you fill all 8 memory slots.