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View Full Version : Red Cross to GW, Charge Saddam or set him free




Ugg
Jun 13, 2004, 11:33 PM
Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1238263,00.html)

Release him, charge him or break international law, Bush told

Jonathan Steele in Baghdad
Monday June 14, 2004
The Guardian

Saddam Hussein must either be released from custody by June 30 or charged if the US and the new Iraqi government are to conform to international law, the International Committee of the Red Cross said last night.

Nada Doumani, a spokeswoman for the ICRC, told the Guardian: "The United States defines Saddam Hussein as a prisoner of war. At the end of an occupation PoWs have to be released provided they have no penal charges against them."

Her comments came as the international body, the only independent group with access to detainees in US custody, becomes increasingly concerned over the legal limbo in which thousands of people are being held in the run-up to the transfer of power at the end of the month.

The occupation officially ends on June 30 and US forces will be in Iraq at the invitation of its sovereign government.

"There are all these people kept in a legal vacuum. No one should be left not knowing their legal status. Their judicial rights must be assured," Ms Doumani said.

Saddam and other senior officials of the old regime are the only Iraqi detainees to have been given PoW status. Hundreds of other Iraqis have been seized since the war often, according to critics, on flimsy suspicion and held for long periods without charge, usually without their families knowing for weeks where they are.

The ICRC visited the notorious Abu Ghraib prison in early June and found 3,291 detainees, including three women and 22 boys under 18. This was less than half the 6,527 it found in March.

President George Bush has promised to close the prison where US guards indulged in pornographic abuse of prisoners and several groups of releases have taken place since. But many prisoners have been transferred to other prisons.

The ICRC is angry that it has not been given exact figures for releases or the whereabouts of those who are moved from Abu Ghraib and it is hoping the end of the occupation will put pressure on the authorities to clean up their act. "If we consider the occupation ends on June 30, that would mean it's the end of the international armed conflict. This is the legal situation.

"When the conflict ends the prisoners of war should be released according to the Geneva conventions," Ms Doumani said.

She accepted that US and other foreign forces would remain in Iraq.

Whether that meant an occupation continued would be "determined by the situation on the ground". The presence of foreign forces ought to be governed by a legal agreement with the host government.

The ICRC has made at least two visits to the former Iraqi president who is believed to be in a special prison at Baghdad airport.

Around 40 other members of the so-called "pack of cards", Washington's list of high-level members of the former regime, are also there, most in solitary confinement.

Interrogation has been sporadic and none has been charged or allowed visits by their lawyers. A few have had family visits.

They include scientists who were never members of the Ba'ath party, like Dr Amer al Saadi, who was the Iraqi government's liaison with the United Nations' weapons inspectors.

Family members claim they are being deliberately held without trial so as to be punished even in the absence of evidence of wrongdoing.

US lawyers have been helping Iraqis prepare charges against Saddam but officials say they do not expect a trial until next year at the earliest. The US and the Iraqi authorities hope other defendants will first testify against him.

But none has been willing to do so. Whether it is out of loyalty or fear of retribution by Saddam's sympathisers is not clear.

Once charged the former president will be entitled to judicial guarantees including access to a lawyer and the right to prepare a defence.

The US has made clear it will continue to detain some Iraqis after the transfer of sovereignty as part of its security operations.




It's interesting that no one is willing to testify against SH and that so many are still being held with little or no indication of what their supposed crimes were.

It'll be interesting to see what the interim government chooses to do with him. I think the US would have been better off bringing him to trial immediately. The guy is as crazy as a loon so I doubt that they got any valid information from him. Just another fiasco complements of gw & co.....



Thanatoast
Jun 14, 2004, 02:55 AM
no doubt we'll find that gw & co will find a way to "bend" the rules and keep saddam as long as they want. what's more, at least half of the us population will not object and will not see the potential danger in allowing the administration free reign. "it could never happen to me" :rolleyes: :(

zimv20
Jun 14, 2004, 03:08 AM
no doubt we'll find that gw & co will find a way to "bend" the rules and keep saddam as long as they want.
just make him a US citizen, natch

skunk
Jun 14, 2004, 06:00 AM
By the same GC arguments, then, all those in Guantanamo should also be released or charged. Not that we didn't know that already.

wwworry
Jun 14, 2004, 07:20 AM
Karl Rove has it all planned out when SH will be charged.

Voltron
Jun 14, 2004, 08:22 AM
Apparently the Red Cross doesn't mind and completly ignores the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who were tortured and died under Saddam's regime. The thousands gassed by his hands. But none of that matters, bad ol US of A has him in custody shame on them.

skunk
Jun 14, 2004, 08:35 AM
Apparently the Red Cross doesn't mind and completly ignores the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who were tortured and died under Saddam's regime. The thousands gassed by his hands. But none of that matters, bad ol US of A has him in custody shame on them.
The bad ol US of A should know better.

Voltron
Jun 14, 2004, 01:51 PM
The bad ol US of A should know better.
Just now reported on FOX news.
Pallestinian terrorists attack Israelites. When they took off to escape they all hopped into the back of a UN Red Cross van driven by a UN employee. All of it was caught on tape by Reuters. I'm waiting for ABC, CBS, NBC, PMSNBC, CNN, to report on this BIG news. Since I don't watch them I can't say for sure they aren't reporting it but I wouldn't be surprised. Too new for it to be on the internet yet I guess for Drudge hasn't reported either.

I'm not going to count on Red Cross being fair or balanced.

dopefiend
Jun 14, 2004, 01:55 PM
What the hell....

Execute him already!

Voltron
Jun 14, 2004, 02:03 PM
What the hell....

Execute him already!
They already screwed up by taking him alive they can't increase that screw up by executing him without a trial now. :mad:

wwworry
Jun 14, 2004, 03:42 PM
Red Cross Bad! Kill now!

trebblekicked
Jun 14, 2004, 04:04 PM
everyone who has sly on ignore should read post #8. it's an all-time classic.

zimv20
Jun 14, 2004, 05:15 PM
I'm not going to count on Red Cross being fair or balanced.
didn't know the red cross was a media outlet. what station are they again?

thanks for the heads up, trebble.

blackfox
Jun 14, 2004, 05:25 PM
In all fairness, what should the US do at this point? I certainly think they should abide by International Law (for once), but what are their options? What can the US charge him with, since I do not know if there is any US law applicable to a foreign national...would we release him to the ICC?, an organization we refuse to let ourselves be responsible to...do we give hime back to Iraq? I could see alot of security and morale problems with that one...and I do not know if the Iraqi provisional government and/or constitution has the legal provisions for dealing with him effectively...I say go the ICC route...any comments?

Thanatoast
Jun 14, 2004, 06:05 PM
i thought the plan was to turn him over to the iraqis. since we won't go to the icc (which is what we should do) they're the next best option.

takao
Jun 14, 2004, 06:23 PM
everyone who has sly on ignore should read post #8. it's an all-time classic.

have to agree..... a true classic :p
those evil people-loving swiss :rolleyes:

mactastic
Jun 14, 2004, 07:52 PM
Christ, it shouldn't be hard to charge that bastard with something. Saddam I mean, not Bush. He certainly committed enough atrocities.

diamond geezer
Jun 14, 2004, 07:57 PM
I would have thought that the US would have loved to get rid of Saddam, without a trial that might embarrass the memory of Reagan.

Reagan being the Pres who supported Saddam and gave him all those nasty biological weapons and military support.

Voltron
Jun 14, 2004, 09:10 PM
Just now reported on FOX news.
Pallestinian terrorists attack Israelites. When they took off to escape they all hopped into the back of a UN Red Cross van driven by a UN employee. All of it was caught on tape by Reuters. I'm waiting for ABC, CBS, NBC, PMSNBC, CNN, to report on this BIG news. Since I don't watch them I can't say for sure they aren't reporting it but I wouldn't be surprised. Too new for it to be on the internet yet I guess for Drudge hasn't reported either.

I'm not going to count on Red Cross being fair or balanced.
They played the tape on TV with the Pallestinian gun men piling into the back of the van clearly marked as UN with a Red Cross next to it. So how come nobody else reported it?

Ugg
Jun 14, 2004, 10:36 PM
Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/06/14/international1839EDT0758.DTL)

The United States will hand over Saddam Hussein and all other detainees to Iraq's new government over the next two weeks as sovereignty is restored, the interim prime minister said Monday.

U.S. officials have said they plan to continue to hold up to 5,000 prisoners deemed a threat to the coalition even after the restoration of Iraqi sovereignty at the end of this month. They say as many as 1,400 detainees will either be released or transferred to Iraqi authorities.

However, in an interview with Al-Jazeera television, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said Iraqi officials expect to take possession of Saddam and all other detainees with the transfer of power.

"All the detainees will be transferred to the Iraqi authorities and the transporting operation will be done within the two coming weeks," Allawi said. "Saddam and the others will be delivered to the Iraqis."

He said the former Iraqi president would stand trial "as soon as possible" but gave no specific timeframe. The detainees and "Saddam as well will be handed to the Iraqi government, and you can consider this as an official confirmation," he added.

Well, it looks like SH will be given back to the Iraqis. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this.

Neserk
Jun 14, 2004, 11:50 PM
Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/06/14/international1839EDT0758.DTL)



Well, it looks like SH will be given back to the Iraqis. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this.


Since his crimes were against the Iraqi people, it makes sense. Yes?

IJ Reilly
Jun 15, 2004, 01:56 AM
Well, it looks like SH will be given back to the Iraqis. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this.

I have every confidence that the Bush administration has thought this all through and it will all work out just fine.

skunk
Jun 15, 2004, 04:26 AM
I have every confidence that the Bush administration has thought this all through and it will all work out just fine.
What could possibly go wrong? ;)

wwworry
Jun 15, 2004, 10:44 AM
He will be greeted with flowers. :o

Voltron
Jun 15, 2004, 12:51 PM
He will be greeted with flowers. :o
He'll get shot 20+ times, while running accross a pig pen, attempting to escape.

blackfox
Jun 15, 2004, 05:32 PM
Perhaps we will just give Saddam Iraq again, ask him to stabilize it, and exert pressure on Iran, as he has periodically done...with a warning not to mess with us again...hell, at this point anything is possible...We will just find a new country to attack...the old "bait and switch"...

Seriously, I hope he finds his way to the ICC somehow...

takao
Jun 15, 2004, 05:47 PM
Seriously, I hope he finds his way to the ICC somehow...

i seriously doubt that... typical case of "not gonna happen"
i guess he will be sitting in jail a long long long time before a trial

zimv20
Jun 15, 2004, 07:39 PM
the US has been known to install "leaders" who can keep their own country under control and act as a "hidden agenda" influence in the region. maybe saddam can fulfill this role, given the instability in the area.

mactastic
Jun 15, 2004, 07:58 PM
I have every confidence that the Bush administration has thought this all through and it will all work out just fine.

Yeah, this sounds like the perfect way to off Saddam without a messy Hague trial where the US wouldn't be in control of the agenda of the court and a defense lawyer could bring up some very embarrasing items for the current administration. This way we can 'hand him off' to people who can handle the messy business of executing him without all the messy business of a full-scale trial. Sounds like they did think this one through.