We're Still 'One Nation Under God'... Thank God...

[PowerMacMan]

Court dismisses pledge suit and justices toss athiests case... Thank God they didn't take it out, our world is not completely falling apart...

The Supreme Court preserved the phrase “one nation, under God,” in the Pledge of Allegiance, ruling Monday that a California atheist could not challenge the patriotic oath but sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5208621/?GT1=3584)

[dopefiend]

Bleh, Californians are always causing problems :p

[windowsblowsass]

Court dismisses pledge suit and justices toss athiests case... Thank God they didn't take it out, our world is not completely falling apart...

The Supreme Court preserved the phrase “one nation, under God,” in the Pledge of Allegiance, ruling Monday that a California atheist could not challenge the patriotic oath but sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5208621/?GT1=3584)
good


ps when your in charge of cedar point can i get free tickets?

[frescies]

It's unfortunate that the person challenging the line was an athiest, because people considered that reason enough to dismiss his claim. Why couldn't he have been a polythiest or something? In that case he could have had a religious equality argument.

No one considers the religious equality of religion without a god that parallels D. Eisenhower's god. I'm athiest, and furthermore I'm my own god... If I were to speak the pledge of allegiance, I would be promoting a Nation under me, which I doubt was in accord with good ol' Dwight's idea. Dwight Eisenhower was annoying anyway.

Separate the Church and State or bow down to me!

[PowerMacMan]

It's unfortunate that the person challenging the line was an athiest, because people considered that reason enough to dismiss his claim. Why couldn't he have been a polythiest or something? In that case he could have had a religious equality argument.

No one considers the religious equality of religion without a god that parallels D. Eisenhower's god. I'm athiest, and furthermore I'm my own god... If I were to speak the pledge of allegiance, I would be promoting a Nation under me, which I doubt was in accord with good ol' Dwight's idea. Dwight Eisenhower was annoying anyway.

Separate the Church and State or bow down to me!

I believe the Pledge speaks of the Christian God, Jesus' father...etc...

[PowerMacMan]

good


ps when your in charge of cedar point can i get free tickets?

Sure, when I'm in charge, everything will be free... :p :p :p :p

[rueyeet]

Actually, the suit wasn't dismissed because the father was an aetheist; the court threw it out on the basis that the father was entangled in custody battles and therefore didn't have the right to speak for his daughter or bring a suit for her benefit.

I also think that the world wouldn't be half as close to "falling apart" if religious people of every stripe, including many Christians, tried a little harder to live out the teachings of their various faiths, and stopped using religion as an excuse to look down on, belittle, or despise those who didn't share their faiths. God being in the Pledge won't do anyone an iota of good if He's not in the hearts of those who profess to follow Him.

[KingSleaze]

Actually, the suit wasn't dismissed because the father was an aetheist; the court threw it out on the basis that the father was entangled in custody battles and therefore didn't have the right to speak for his daughter or bring a suit for her benefit.

I also think that the world wouldn't be half as close to "falling apart" if religious people of every stripe, including many Christians, tried a little harder to live out the teachings of their various faiths, and stopped using religion as an excuse to look down on, belittle, or despise those who didn't share their faiths. God being in the Pledge won't do anyone an iota of good if He's not in the hearts of those who profess to follow Him.

And because the kids father didn't have sufficient custody to bring suit for the child invalidates the whole "separation of church and state" argument? :confused:

[daveg5]

I heard under God wasnt put in by the writer of the pledge and Americans for years said it without God, It was later put in for political reasons in the 50's to make a statement to communism. Is this true at all.

[PowerMacMan]

I heard under God wasnt put in by the writer of the pledge and Americans for years said it without God, It was later put in for political reasons in the 50's to make a statement to communism. Is this true at all.

True, true, true...

[Vlade]

I believe the Pledge speaks of the Christian God, Jesus' father...etc...

And its good that EVERYONE has to say it because EVERYONE is a christian right? Maybe if EVERYONE was a christian this would fine, but there are actually hundreds of religions that do not worship a single god, or any god. In my state of Pennsylvania you have to say the pledge, and the entire pledge. Its a shame that our country forces you to pledge to it, you should want to but if you don't you shouldn't have to say the pledge.

[PowerMacMan]

And its good that EVERYONE has to say it because EVERYONE is a christian right? Maybe if EVERYONE was a christian this would fine, but there are actually hundreds of religions that do not worship a single god, or any god. In my state of Pennsylvania you have to say the pledge, and the entire pledge. Its a shame that our country forces you to pledge to it, you should want to but if you don't you shouldn't have to say the pledge.

I do agree, it is a right you have... Are you talking about having to say it in school? It is wrong that they make you say it, but you don't have to say 'Once Nation Under God'... and they won't notice. But it is good to say the Pledge, it is an honor to our country.

[zimv20]

'Once Nation Under God'
nice freudian slip

[Don't panic]

I fail to see how to force little children to be brainwashed on a daily basis is ever going to be a good idea.
the entire concept of the pledge is ludicrous. It should go altogether with or without that blatantly uncostitutional appendage

[Stelliform]

And because the kids father didn't have sufficient custody to bring suit for the child invalidates the whole "separation of church and state" argument? :confused:

No it means that the Supreme Court can sidestep the issue for a while...

(Basically, we can't look at the case since this guy cannot sue on behalf of his kid. All of your legal i's and t's must be dotted and crossed if you are going to get reviewed by the supreme court.)

[bousozoku]

nice freudian slip

Freud wore a slip?

It's unfortunate that there was a custody battle underway. It probably helped to detour the results.

As far as I don't believe anyone should (have to) say "under god" as part of the pledge of allegiance, if you don't want to say the pledge at all, you're in the wrong country. Did I really say that? :eek: This is supposedly a country of the people. It doesn't always go the way we'd like, but it is where we live and we are protected by it, as well as all "enjoying" the other dubious stuff.

It's certainly a different world from when I was a little kid. People don't seem to know the national anthem and they don't seem to know the pledge of allegiance, under god or otherwise.

[solvs]

There are several problems with this. First, lots of people want to pledge their allegiance to this country, but they don't want to pledge allegiance to a particular God (or God at all). There's a reason it wasn't there in the first place, and there's a good reason for separation of church and state. It wouldn't matter if 99.9% of Americans were Christians, the other 0.1%'s beliefs must be protected. That's what makes America so great, that you can have your own belief system, even be an atheist if you want, without Government reprisal.

Imagine changing it to "One Nation, Under Allah". You get the idea. The United States should be based of diversity. Once again, freedom of religion, free to believe. A lot of people forget that part when it's their guy, but what if it wasn't?

(BTW, I'm actually a pretty religious guy, just don't force my beliefs on others because I don't want theirs forced on me. Do unto others!)

[takao]

just a question: when do you have to speak that "pledge" ?

[bousozoku]

just a question: when do you have to speak that "pledge" ?

When I was in my first school, the whole school would stop at 8:05 a.m. and the principal would tell everyone to begin. This went through my 1st through 6th grades. (There is kindergarten before that and 7th-12th afterwards.) It was also expected at some assemblies, usually related to national holidays such as Memorial Day.

[blackfox]

You know, things like this get me thinking...As much as I applaud attempts at fostering diversity and the rights of minority positions, it seems that things have become overly divisive. The Cultural Heritage of the US, like it or not, is that of Western Culture(ie Europe) and to a slightly lesser degree, Christianity. While the acknowledgements of other faiths and cultural minorities in the US is laudable, it should not necessarily come at the expense of our traditional western-european heritage. The Founding Fathers saw the potential problems with unrestrained diversity, as reflected in the National Motto "e pluribus unum". There must be some attempt at Unity and a common Cultural core. Theodore Roosevelt wrote " The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing as a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities." No country in History has survived without an Cultural core, reflecting historical fact, and a truly multicultural United States would no longer be the US, it would be the UN.

[IJ Reilly]

No it means that the Supreme Court can sidestep the issue for a while...

(Basically, we can't look at the case since this guy cannot sue on behalf of his kid. All of your legal i's and t's must be dotted and crossed if you are going to get reviewed by the supreme court.)

The lower courts didn't have a problem with him suing on behalf of his minor-child. I wonder if the real precedent here isn't the Supreme Court deciding that parent may not have standing to represent his child's interests in court. They certainly didn't decide any the church-state matters.

[Sayhey]

Part of me is glad this is postponed for another time. If the Court had the guts to take a stand on this issue and throw out the "under God" reference like everyone who reads the First Amendment knows they should, it would only give Bush and his buddies another wedge issue for his campaign. It would be the "anti-gay-marriage-pro-godly-pledge-government-posting-of-the-ten-commandments-imprison-the-flag-burners-and-kill-the-terrorists" campaign from hell.

On the other hand, I have two children who have gone through or are going through the school system and I've had a few fights with teachers and principals who thought they could force them to recite the pledge. In every situation they have backed off, but this is San Francisco. In other areas of the country children are disciplined for not participating. In every area they are made to feel awkward because they are not christians. This should be challenged and the Court should be made to take a stand. I wish the whole thing were thrown out because it is outrageous to make children recite a pledge. All it does is demean the very idea of a pledge of allegiance to make it a rote exercise done by minors.

[Voltron]

No it means that the Supreme Court can sidestep the issue for a while...

(Basically, we can't look at the case since this guy cannot sue on behalf of his kid. All of your legal i's and t's must be dotted and crossed if you are going to get reviewed by the supreme court.)
Hannidy on his radio show stated that 4 of the Supreme court justices elaborated on their reasons for tossing it out stating that their reason is yes because he's not the childs legal guardian, however even if he was it is not considered anti constitutional. Apparently they publicized their opinions somewhere? He also stated a 5th judge abstained from voting, due to some speech he made earlier ie conflict in interest, that probably would've voted that it was not anti constitutional thus 5 judges making a majority if it should come back up again.

[Neserk]

We already have a thread on this topic, thanks.

[windowsblowsass]

And its good that EVERYONE has to say it because EVERYONE is a christian right? Maybe if EVERYONE was a christian this would fine, but there are actually hundreds of religions that do not worship a single god, or any god. In my state of Pennsylvania you have to say the pledge, and the entire pledge. Its a shame that our country forces you to pledge to it, you should want to but if you don't you shouldn't have to say the pledge.
no you dont i live in pa if someone told u that their wrong they cannot make you say it all they an make you do is shut whle other people are saying it

[frescies]

You are QUICK :D. You're pretty wise to pick up on that so fast. It's gonna be hard to go over YOUR head :D

I believe the Pledge speaks of the Christian God, Jesus' father...etc...

[bousozoku]

...
In my state of Pennsylvania
...

Now, if you were really in Pennsylvania, you'd know that it was a commonwealth and not a state. :D

[PowerMacMan]

You are QUICK :D. You're pretty wise to pick up on that so fast. It's gonna be hard to go over YOUR head :D

:D Thankyou, God :p
:mad:

[Lyle]

I also think that the world wouldn't be half as close to "falling apart" if religious people of every stripe, including many Christians, tried a little harder to live out the teachings of their various faiths, and stopped using religion as an excuse to look down on, belittle, or despise those who didn't share their faiths. God being in the Pledge won't do anyone an iota of good if He's not in the hearts of those who profess to follow Him.Well said.

[Vlade]

no you dont i live in pa if someone told u that their wrong they cannot make you say it all they an make you do is shut whle other people are saying it

No, actually it is a law now, they announced on the announcements that any student not saying the pledge should be sent to the office, go do a search about it.

[Krizoitz]

I also think that the world wouldn't be half as close to "falling apart" if religious people of every stripe, including many Christians, tried a little harder to live out the teachings of their various faiths, and stopped using religion as an excuse to look down on, belittle, or despise those who didn't share their faiths. God being in the Pledge won't do anyone an iota of good if He's not in the hearts of those who profess to follow Him.

Oh look, another thread that is going to degenerate into bashing religion, making assumptions about how the actions of a few are representative of the whole diverse group are somehow valid. Gimme a break. Just as many non-religious people cause problems, so how about we stop making grand sweeping statements?

[Neserk]

You can't actually force a child to say the pledge. It is more of a social pressure thing. Basically children who are Jehovah's witnesses don't say the pledge. I haven't had one in a class yet but I *believe* they just sit quietly while the rest of the class says it. I'm not aware of anyone else who has chosen to be exempt. I leave out the "under God" part because I consider it to be irreverant to God, whom I do believe in.

[takao]

after looking up the pledge and reading the comments about it in multiple threads about i finally know what this pledge is all about...

i find it pretty surreal that some 10 year kids in school have to say such things everyday (?)..whats next ? singing the anthem everyday ? i learned our anthem once during our music-lesson in school when i was 13 (12?) and now 7-8 years later i have problems naming the first phrase (the longer i think about it i remember more and more phrases but putting them in correct order is a different thing)
during my conscription service in our army i had to speak something similar (but i crossed fingers and left a few parts out which i didn't find correct ;) )...i find it pretty frightening that some young school children have to do the same
smells like blind flag-patriotism to me.... and from there the way to hurrah-patriotism isn't that long... (perhaps that explains the nearly prussian militarism in the USA in the last years...)

[Chip NoVaMac]

I do agree, it is a right you have... Are you talking about having to say it in school? It is wrong that they make you say it, but you don't have to say 'Once Nation Under God'... and they won't notice. But it is good to say the Pledge, it is an honor to our country.

the fact that it is there at all is wrong. Peer pressure is very hard in schools.

And that fact that having a reference to God goes against the fabric that this nation now has. Not everyone believes in a God. It may be Buddha, or Allah, or any number of supreme beings that various religions believe.

If you want this nation to become a Christian state, there is a legal process for that. It is called a Constitutional Convention. But don't be surprised if you don't like the overall results.

[Neserk]

after looking up the pledge and reading the comments about it in multiple threads about i finally know what this pledge is all about...

i find it pretty surreal that some 10 year kids in school have to say such things everyday (?)..whats next ? singing the anthem everyday ?


Been there, done that! From Kinder through the end of elementary school we did the pledge/anthem every morning. I had no clue what I was saying and therefore didn't mean a word of it :D