Indie No Show at iTMS Europe?

[MacRumors]

MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8905&Page=1&pagePos=1) reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.

[Mustafa]

.......just tell us when it's delivered. These delays and obfuscations are doing nothing for the brand.

[nsb3000]

MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8905&Page=1&pagePos=1) reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.

Apple should be leading the way with getting independents online, not this...

[~Shard~]

To me this isn't a big deal - just get the damn thing launched! ;)

Still waiting for iTMS Canada too... :(

[JGowan]

.......just tell us when it's delivered. These delays and obfuscations are doing nothing for the brand.One must walk before one runs.

[pboy]

Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?

[caveman_uk]

The indies are very important in the UK and Europe - especially among the young crowd - which I guess are Apple's principal target market. Although a lot of people here buy crap like Dido and Celine Dion, the folks likely to use ITMS are more likely to be interested in stuff on indie labels.

I still think the store should launch anyway but quickly sort out the problems with the indies as a priority.

[nagromme]

Considering how well-received Apple's standard terms have been among independents in the US, I'm inclined to wonder if maybe Apple's not the problem here. Maybe the independent UK labels really are being unreasonable.

Or maybe Apple is really being unfair in some way. Maybe we'll never know :)

Hopefully they'll catch on before long.

[musicpyrite]

who cares if europe doesnt have inde music, just get itms launched for petes sake!

The next step to world domination!!!

[asif3]

this makes me believe even more that apple is gonna surprise us with some super-low pricing and the labels want to milk apple/us for more cash.

come on stevie, surprise us!

[NoCleverSNForMe]

This story is only significant within the context...

Have the other online music stores (i.e. Napster) managed to get these independent labels on their sites?

If it's no, then Apple is going to be great competition.

If it's yes, then Apple will be fighting an uphill battle.

[kronos2611]

The way things are going it's starting to look like the UK launch of iTMS is too little too late...

I guess we'll see tomorrow though - hopefully the price will be low enough to pull users away from Napster and the rest that seem to have appeared in the last few days (www.sonicselector.com for example). If nothing else though, at least us UK Mac users will finally have a music download service we can use (even if it is missing lots of UK music....)

[Flowbee]

Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?

iTMS launched in the US without indies, too. Within a few months, they started coming on board. As mentioned above, unless another service offers loads of these indie artists, this is a minor set-back. Apple will sort it all out evetually.

[Stella]

**** the indies.. if they can't get into the 21st century, hit them where it hurts - their pockets... get out your favourite P2P apps and download for free.


MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8905&Page=1&pagePos=1) reports that talks between UK Independent labels and Apple may have hit an impasse over the weekend.

As a result the iTunes Music Store for Europe may open without these key artists.

According to MacWorld, the independent artists represnt 25% of music sales in the UK, and 22% across Europe.

Apple is expected to launch iTunes Europe on June 15th.

[g4cubed]

Though having the indies would have been nice, I think the people are just interested in getting it up and running. They'll get on board little by little, just as it did here.

[greg75]

Considering how well-received Apple's standard terms have been among independents in the US, I'm inclined to wonder if maybe Apple's not the problem here.

Did you bother to read the article?

Independent US label Six Degrees – which has experienced "excellent results" on Apple's US Music Store – has declined to sign up for Apple's European service. Sources say this is because the terms on offer from Apple were unaccptable to the company.

While Macworld doesn't possess full details regarding Apple's negotiations with the independent labels yet, it appears the computer company is attempting to implement deals the independents consider to be "commercial suicide" in the offline world.

[nagromme]

I realize terms and pricing have to be different for Europe--NOT necessarily because Apple wants them to be (they may), but because of different laws, taxes, and different companies with different existing deals.

The point is, Apple has been VERY indie-friendly thus far. In the US, Apple has standard terms for all labels, putting indies on an equal footing with big labels. They've been praised for that. In addition, Apple has clearly been willing to accept a very small profit (in fact none, at first) on the iTunes Store. Short-term greed hasn't been their mode of operation so far--they've been more long-sighted, selling iPods, promoting themselves vs. Microsoft, etc.

Now, as I said, we don't know... they MAY have changed tactics and decided to stick it to the independents in Europe (perhaps even bowing to pressure from bigger labels). But that's not the only possibility here, and not a conclusion to just jump to.

In other words, the quote "It appears Apple has presented terms to Europe's independents that are unacceptable to them, and the computer company is not prepared to shift its position" could also be phrased as, "It appears Europe's independents are demanding terms that are unacceptable to Apple, and the independents are not prepared to shift their position." The phrasing in the article was loaded, but in fact, says nothing about one side being the hold-up while the other is willing to deal. BOTH sides are objecting to the others' terms.

Beyond that, we don't have enough details to judge.

And I agree--get it out there, and improve it from there. There's something to be said for Apple's practice of "waiting to get it right," but that need not be taken to the extreme in this case.

[MikeH]

For the love of God, what it with these people? Don't they want to get their products to as many people as possible? Are they averse to selling their music? What do they have to lose by being a part of iTunes - surely they can continue to sell via the usual commercial outlets on little shiny disks?

Well, screw 'em. Launch it without them, and if/when it's sucessful they'll change their tune and join up. I know there's a ****** load of hassle negotiating with these things but sometimes I despair...

...on the other hand it could all be just a bunch of fabricated rumors and it'll launch tomorrow indie's and all. Fingers crossed.

[leenoble]

The phrasing used above points towards it being Apple who have moved the goalposts between deals signed in the US and new deals in the UK...
But I rather suspect it has a little more to do with the fact that ALL record labels have routinely screwed the UK market in particular, and the fact is Apple probably wants the same deal on the table in Europe as they do in the US, it's just the record companies are used to a little more of a margin on European sales so won't sign up to the deal.
As someone mentioned earlier, I guess we'll never find out exactly. And if we don't find out then that must be the reason why - the record companies won't want to look bad by revealing the information since it shows them up to be a bunch of double dealing money grabbing arses.
It's *possible* we might find out from Apple's side of the argument, they have a track record of being indiscreet about these things in the past don't they?
But my bet is we won't hear anything. The indies will hopefully come crawling back when they see the sales they're losing as a result of not being on the number one store.

[DMann]

Leave it to the Brits to resist
anything associated with Apple
and music (Beatles anyone?)

[kenaustus]

It's like the old saying about the lottery - you gotta be in it to win it.

Apple's gonna be in it - the question is how long the indies will hold out. I have a feeling that a few will start signing up if they see TMS is generating a lot of business.

[coolfactor]

....buy crap like Dido and Celine Dion,....

We're all entitled to our preferences. Celine Dion happens to be a very good singer, even if she doesn't write all the music herself. I enjoy it.

It may be related to pricing/profit margins. Apple may be trying to keep a consistent, low pricing across the board. I sure hope so.

iTunes is going to rock the world tomorrow!

:cool:

[JINX]

Apple's entire m.o. for these stores is to sell iPods. They make virtually nothing on the US store. Its basically a loss leader to get people committed to their iPods. Why would they suddenly try to get the indies to pay more?

This might simply be a case of neither side being at faulty. Apple is offering the best they can do without losing money and the indies don't have the same infrastructure to handle the pricing scheme that the big 5 do.

I'm sure it will get worked out eventually. Does anyone really think we'll still be driving to stores and buying CD's in 15 years?

[dontmatter]

I'm desperately hoping this is either not true, or it means something like-apple got the majors to accept the terms, but a lot of indie labels aren't. Hopefully, once they see major labels and other indie labels doing fairly well online, and not too much DRM stripping, etc., the other indies will go along.

[iMeowbot]

Did you bother to read the article?

It only says that 6 Degrees didn't accept the terms of the Europe deal. That doesn't necessarily mean the the offered terms were unfair, only that the label(s) wanted more.

This is just like when companies and unions get into contract disputes. The spin is always way out of proportion to the actual differences.

[pgwalsh]

I love indie music. Most of what I buy is indie music... My biggest issue is that most of the music I buy is fron the UK and it's hard to come by on CD let alone iTunes. However, I have started to see some stuff, but not much.

I'd like independent artists and labels from the UK have quicker access to US music fans through iTunes. I'm tired of waiting 3 to 6 months later to get the same realeases. I can order directly from the UK, but that really adds up after a while..

iTunes could eliminate this time gap and give us access to more of the music we love.

On another not I think they shoul have a low bit rate version of the songs so we can listen to an entire track before we purchase or something. Sometimes 30 seconds doesn't give you enough to know what's going on on a 9 minute or 52 minute track..

Ok... that's enough complaining by me, but those are my limitations from buying stickly from ITMS.

[Bob21]

Hmm, slightly disappointing, although they may be added later as a few have already stated.

All is not lost, as long as they've managed to sign The Wurzels :D

[greg75]

It only says that 6 Degrees didn't accept the terms of the Europe deal. That doesn't necessarily mean the the offered terms were unfair, only that the label(s) wanted more.
Since it's the same label I consider it more likely that it's Apple which is being unreasonable and not the labels.

[DGFan]

Oh, ****! Apple might lose tons of cred by leaving out the indies. I keep wondering about those "unacceptable terms"...?

Keep in mind that term was used by the indies. We really have no idea how fair of an offer was made by Apple.

[DGFan]

Since it's the same label I consider it more likely that it's Apple which is being unreasonable and not the labels.

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US. But all we have are these vague statements. So here we are, with no knowledge of how the music industry works in any of the countries involved, trying to sort it all out. I don't THINK so!

[g4cubed]

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US.

Absolutely right!!! :D You know they would have been singing to high heaven about it. Sorry about the pun :rolleyes:

[Stella]

What a very stereotypical and broad statement. In other words bollocks!!

By your logic, sales of iPods must have also been poor in the UK... which they most cirtinately have not!

Leave it to the Brits to resist
anything associated with Apple
and music (Beatles anyone?)

[greg75]

Not necessarily. If Apple were offering a worse deal than in the US the "sources" (aka Indie Spokesperson) could've just come out and said that Apple seemed to be trying to cut a better deal for itself in Europe than it got in the US. But all we have are these vague statements.
Six Degrees accepted the terms in the US. They did not in Europe, with sources saying "terms on offer from Apple were unacceptable to the company". Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

The statement itself is indeed vague, but when coupled with the fact that it's the same company is certainly indicates something to me.

I suppose the question is: Who's more likely to be greedy in this situation?

[legion]

This story is only significant within the context...

Have the other online music stores (i.e. Napster) managed to get these independent labels on their sites?

If it's no, then Apple is going to be great competition.

If it's yes, then Apple will be fighting an uphill battle.
Napster has gotten indies to sign on. So from your statment, it would fall in the latter category.

[tagy]

Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company

[greg75]

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company
That is plausible, but I have yet to see any documentation to back up the oft-repated claim that UK labels are making more profit on each unit than their US counterparts.

[iLilana]

All they have to do is launch it... everything else will fall into place.

[iLilana]

It would be the labels' best interest to just start getting ALL their ducks in a row. The whole industry is changing. There are things that artists just don't need anymore. Labels are one of them. Labels have too much control still and are backing the whole RIAA debacle. We don't need the RIAA. Heck they are even going after digital radio as filesharing networks. Digital radio stations that already pay riaa fees. Remember we all used to be able to record a song from the radio? The RIAA created this mess. They made it bigger. They lied about music financial losses through false math.(basing the losses on all the files being shared and not realizing that people probably wouldn't have bought it anyway because of cost or availability restrictions. or the music could have been crap.) You go to a music store and you are generally allowed to listen to whatever you want to find out if you like it first. You can't however do this at home. I know peaple that had more music recorded on cassettes from friends than I or many of the people I know have on their computers.

There are other interest groups that are more tuned to the artists needs. Future of Music website [url]http://www.futureofmusic.org/[url/] has the right idea but i don't know if they would represent what I want exactly. The Media machines that push things like american idol and starsearch are a bad example of how to deal with your art unless all you want is public notoriety(sp?). Its in the best interest of the artist to get the music out. I thank the music gods I am in Canada with reasonable media copyright laws. iTunes or no iTunes, I love where I am.

The biggest trouble with the RIAA... is the american public and music industry and government lets them get away with it. It compares to the McCarthy witch-hunts of hollywood in it's ridiculous paranoid nature. A mass of class action lawsuits is going to be the only thing to stop them now.

[Abstract]

I love indie music. Most of what I buy is indie music... My biggest issue is that most of the music I buy is fron the UK and it's hard to come by on CD let alone iTunes. However, I have started to see some stuff, but not much.

I'd like independent artists and labels from the UK have quicker access to US music fans through iTunes. I'm tired of waiting 3 to 6 months later to get the same realeases. I can order directly from the UK, but that really adds up after a while..


Mama knows, chil'. My favourite bands are all Britons. The problem is that this won't be the same store as in America, and you won't have access to iTMS Europe, which means that your favourite indie Brit bands won't be more accessible in the US once iTMS Europe is launched. I wish there was a way that I could tap the iTMS Europe store separately from the iTMS US store. This is hypothetical in my case, since I'm a Canadian living in Australia for the year. Why wouldn't a European label not want to sell to me if I'm willing to pay their prices/tax/etc, right?

If a record company currently makes more profit on the sale of a CD in the UK compared to the US, then they may have been expecting to make more form a sale on UK iTunes than on US iTunes. So the same terms and conditions from apple might be unacceptable to the same company They price things based on the economy of the country. If Apple is walking in and telling European labels that they're going to make the same profit margins as in the US, then maybe that's the problem. Albums cost more in many European countries than they do in the US, plain and simple.

And since pricing in Canada is so much better in Canada than in the US ($15.99 CAD vs $13 USD), Apple will also need to create prices that aren't equal to the US song price ($0.99) multiplied by the currency conversion rate (x 1.4). They couldn't sell each song individually at $1.40 CDN. Pricing just doesn't work like that. I could go to Futureshop and buy the new Beastie Boys album for $11.99 CDN. These negotiations really can't be easy for Apple, although other companies seem to have done it.

[nagromme]

For reference tomorrow, some prices from other European services--which are already charging more than we pay Apple in the US:

Microsoft/OD2 singles:
.99 euros
.75 pounds
.99 pounds
1.19 pounds

MS/OD2 albums:
7.99 pounds +
12.49 euros +

Napster singles:
1.09 pounds (.88 pounds if you pay for subscription)
Napster albums:
9.95 pounds

And in response to Napster, a temporary special deal from OD2:
Pay 20 pounds and get 40 pounds of music-buying. A slightly-awkward half-off deal for bulk buying, essentially. (I assume this deal is still going on?)

Napster in Canada:
Singles:
CDN$1.19 +
Albums:
CDN$9.95 +

PureTracks in Canada: CDN.99 for singles, CDN$10 for albums.

People actually IN Europe/Canada may be able to report on this better than I :) I'm surprised how hard it is to find clear and detailed reporting on anything but iTunes. (But it's easy to find Paul Thurott claiming that the iPod is a failure (!) in the UK market, and therefore iTunes will be too :D )

Now we'll see just where iTMS falls! (And I'd like to note that Apple will likely want consistent pricing, not pricing that fluctuates daily with exchange rates. That may mean that some weeks, iTunes is a better deal than others.)

By the way, remember that lots of albums on iTunes are LESS than $9.99.

Sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3148327.stm
http://news.linkspider.co.uk/pages/186/97.html
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=5197959&section=news
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/05/26/2123211.shtml?tid=126&tid=141&tid=187&tid=188&tid=95
http://www.cablecastermagazine.com/article.asp?id=30516&issue=05132004

[Trowaman]

All right, the store has been updated for the week (free song of the week and all) and I'm seeing the words worldwide premiere or worldwide exclusive in many places. I'm in Texas, but Europe, Canada, do you see this wonderous light making shapes, words, and pictures on your computer screens as well?

[LethalWolfe]

Six Degrees accepted the terms in the US. They did not in Europe, with sources saying "terms on offer from Apple were unacceptable to the company". Since it's the same company, I consider it most likely that the reason is that the terms were unfair. If you have any other theories that don't break down when one takes into account that it's the same company, please do present them.

The statement itself is indeed vague, but when coupled with the fact that it's the same company is certainly indicates something to me.

I suppose the question is: Who's more likely to be greedy in this situation?


Going by the info we have there is no way to tell why the deal went bad. Maybe Apple offered less? Maybe Six Degrees didn't like their US deal and thought they could get a better one in the UK, but Apple only offered the same deal. Who knows. Not anyone here.


Lethal

[iLilana]

For reference tomorrow,

Napster in Canada:
Singles:
CDN$1.19 +
CDN$9.95 +

PureTracks in Canada: CDN.99 for singles, CDN$10 for albums.


napster/puretracks/ both windows only accessability
mac users out of luck.

[caveman_uk]

(But it's easy to find Paul Thurott claiming that the iPod is a failure (!) in the UK market, and therefore iTunes will be too :D )

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

[displaced]

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

Absolutely. They were all over the media around Christmas -- the hottest gift of the year; everyone wanted one, and a helluva lot got them. For a while (and maybe still...) it seemed that the media had almost adopted 'iPod' as the de facto name for MP3 players, just like 'walkman'. It's still about the only player that doesn't need explanation about what it is. Competitions say 'Win an iPod!' -- but any promotions for other players always read something like 'the new Zen MP3 Player'. I know it sounds petty, but that sort of difference is what sets the iPod above others in the minds of the masses.

They're everywhere. And every single one of them (barring the older models) came with iTunes.

(on a side-note... I read somewhere that Apple are now in 2nd place for overall installed media player userbase -- 30%-ish, and only a few % behind Windows Media Player. All told, I don't think that's too shabby! I'm starting to think that even in the Windows world, if you offer an attractive enough service, people will eventually use it, instead of (or in conjunction with) whatever stuff MS deem fit to foist upon the hapless user.

[nagromme]

Yes, Apple had a HUGE Christmas season for iPods in the UK:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/01/14/ipoduk/index.php

Apple sold 125,000 of them in the UK in three months.

Paul Thurott has NO interest in reality, only in promoting Microsoft.

[Dunepilot]

Huh?????????????

Admittedly London isn't the whole of the UK but a LOT of people have ipods. IIRC we're one of the biggest markets (2nd or third) and they'd have sold a lot more if Apple had actually imported more over Christmas.

Paul Thurott talks out of his a**.

Yeah, maybe it's because I'm a mac watcher that I'm constantly spotting iPods, but there seems to be at least one in practically every carriage when I'm commuting on the tube. I like to have mine in my lap, in its ice-coloured iSkin so that everyone can admire it and be goaded into buying one themselves.

[Dunepilot]

(on a side-note... I read somewhere that Apple are now in 2nd place for overall installed media player userbase -- 30%-ish, and only a few % behind Windows Media Player. All told, I don't think that's too shabby! I'm starting to think that even in the Windows world, if you offer an attractive enough service, people will eventually use it, instead of (or in conjunction with) whatever stuff MS deem fit to foist upon the hapless user.

Sorry for double-post. Does that refer to Quicktime? Or to iTunes (which would obviously include Quicktime).

[bux]

As the title says this is abit offtopic, but anyway.
First I really would like ITMS in Europe... but something that they really need is more good->great music (hard rock and metal) to offer us. My favorite music isn't even available at ITMS. Sure they have 2.5 Manowar albums but I mean... we need more.

[niar]

my SHORT Indie want list:

Far East
Asylum Records
Ubiquity
Papa Records
Polydor
Compost
Harmless
Acetate
Far Out Recordings
Xtreme Records
Laws Of Motion
Spectrum Works
Dope Wax
Hidden Beach
Warp
Champion Music
Regal
Mantis
Source
Clean Up
Talkin Loud
Second Skin
K7!
Ekto
Prolifica
Distance Records
Nuphonic
D.A.T.
Hospital
Output
Douglas
F Comm
Rephlex
Shack Records
Estereo
Fat Cat
Ascension
Mo Wax
Leaf
Soul Jazz
Rawkus
Maverick
Disorient
Chilli Funk
Laws Of Motion


And of course, ALL THE W H I T E LABELS IN THE WORLD - PLEASE!!!!!! ;)

[Dunepilot]

For me, it has to be all the little emo labels, like Saddle Creek, PolyVinyl, Crank and so on. Also that label run by Omar Rodriguez from the Mars Volta would be nice. I highly doubt any of these will appear on iTMS

[dekator]

99 cent in France/Germany. Yes !

[Dunepilot]

99 cent in France/Germany. Yes !

What does that mean? Have they launched it now?

[MacSA]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8911

79p in the UK Albums £7.99

[mr_bam]

Load up iTunes - hit Music Store

If you're in the UK but viewing the USA store at the very bottom of the first page is a selection box for UK.

I hope they use Switch cards.

Trying it out now. I've waited soooooooo long for this day.

[shivers]

Hi, I'm in the UK and I can't get it at all yet - see the Country Warning page and no country selector at the bottom of the homepage :((((((((

desperate to play!

[displaced]

79p / £7.99?

Cheap as chips!

[shivers]

If anyone's having trouble getting to it - try to 'Sign In' and on the page where you agree to the T&Cs there's a link saying 'if your billing address is not in the United States, click here...' - follow that to change to the UK store (or wherever) so you can sign in and purchase!

woohoo!

[littlejim]

I'm in too!!

Where's my credit card ....

[drlunanerd]

I'm in too, but it keeps randomly switching back to the US store. Trying to grab the free downloads there, but they're listed as 79p when I add them to the cart! Nice try... :rolleyes:

[littlejim]

I'm in too, but it keeps randomly switching back to the US store. Trying to grab the free downloads there, but they're listed as 79p when I add them to the cart! Nice try... :rolleyes:

Trying to get the freebie - Letter Read by Rachael Yamagata - I Keep getting the error 'The item is being modified'.

Is she still recording it?

[hansen]

Here in Copenhagen it is raining and my credit card is lying idle on my desk. No access to iTMS until October :(

Well, there is always chocolade to comfort....

[littlejim]

Here in Copenhagen it is raining and my credit card is lying idle on my desk. No access to iTMS until October :(

Well, there is always chocolade to comfort....
But you had a better result in the European Cup :)

[Mac+1]

Loged onto the US iTunes music store this morning and checked out the new Beastie Boys Album and what was the "Americian" Price? £7.99 sterling. Now how was that. Still can't register myself as a buyer though.

Just quickly checked other albums there and they are also £7.99.

Price per single is £0.79p '' YES so far so good. Now only if they would let me register!!!

Check it out.


:eek:

[Stella]

UK Store doesn't even have Steps!??!!! WTF!

:-D

[Windowlicker]

is the music library world wide? it would suck if all the countries had their own libraries (as if this hasn't been said here too many times already).

[littlejim]

is the music library world wide? it would suck if all the countries had their own libraries (as if this hasn't been said here too many times already).
Well, I've just bought 'Night Time' by Killing Joke from ITMS UK and I'm pretty damn sure that wasn't in ITMS USA.

I'm hooked on the Music Store already!

[theadz01]

Only one Björk track!?!?

neither of Kylie's 2 last albums?!

to name just two!

Nothing here that is of interest to me, ill still be downloading elsewhere til they sort it out :mad: :mad: :mad:

the only good thing i like is the price, but it is pointless when there is nothing really to download! :confused:

[mr_bam]

I signed in and set up an account. Switch cards do work (well done Apple)

I bought a track at 79p - and over 128k ISDN (yeh, no ADSL here) it was down in about 3 minutes with artwork.

No problems at all.

I think the catalogue is unique to the UK. E.g. Search for "Karl Jenkins" in the USA store and get a few CDs. But the UK Store there are no tracks (despite KJ being Welsh!).

Ah well.

I'm very happy about iTMS UK! At last. (I'm using iTunes 4.6 BTW)

[leenoble]

It seems to be one world one library in the browser but in the store many tracks are unavailable that I know were on there in the US store. You only find out when you try to open the artist homepage and it says it can't find a match.
Hopefully these cross border licensing issues will eventually be resolved. Either way I'm sure many of these are being worked on to bring them to the uk store.

[hansen]

But you had a better result in the European Cup :)

I had hoped to escape into iTMS from EC hell for a month or so... :D

Anyway, if not loosing is the best news around it doesn't look good.

I'll try an old fashion low tech book

[theadz01]

partial albums?

why can't they use the full album? :mad:

[Fitzcaraldo]

Here in Copenhagen it is raining and my credit card is lying idle on my desk. No access to iTMS until October :(

Well, there is always chocolade to comfort....

Didn't VW just get slamed for restricting inter European sales? Somehow I can't see the EU being happy at Uk residents not being able to sample the delights of Maxim Le Foretier...

[psycho bob]

IT'S HERE!!!! 79P PER TRACK IN THE UK!!!! :)

[hansen]

Didn't VW just get slamed for restricting inter European sales? Somehow I can't see the EU being happy at Uk residents not being able to sample the delights of Maxim Le Foretier...

Maybe this is the red tape discussed here at macrumors earlier, with the bureaucrats blaiming "technical difficulties"

[greg75]

Licensing row mars iTunes launch (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1239201,00.html)
Franz Ferdinand, Basement Jaxx and The White Stripes are refusing to license their music to iTunes, causing a significant setback to Apple's new music download service just hours before it launches to a fanfare in Europe.

Apple will announce at a press conference that it is launching in the UK today, but it has just emerged that it has failed to secure agreements with a number of key independent record labels.

It means anyone going to iTunes will be unable to download Franz Ferdinand, The White Stripes and a host of other bands including So Solid Crew, Badly Drawn Boy, Cold Cut, Dizzee Rascal and Craig David.

They have refused to sign an agreement, labelling the terms Apple is trying to negotiate for the online service as "commercial suicide".

The boycott by independents in the UK and France means iTunes will be devoid of a significant proportion of UK and local European tracks.

Independent artists account for around a quarter of music sales in the UK and around 22% in Europe and enjoy a much higher profile than they do in the US.

The European launch of iTunes has already been delayed because of the complexities of agreeing royalties for each individual country.

While Apple is set to announce that it has secured online deals with the big five labels - Warner, Universal, BMG, Sony and EMI - it may only have limited independent offerings.

The labels have accused Apple of misusing its position as the dominant online music provider to squeeze unacceptable terms from smaller record labels.

A spokesman for record label trade body the Association of Independent Music confirmed that negotiations had collapsed.

"A lot of labels haven't been approached but where Apple has spoken to labels the terms on offer have been commercial suicide. ITunes in Europe will be a slightly empty service as a result."

Apple controls around 70% of the online music market through its successful US version of iTunes and runaway sales of its iPod player.

Independents accused Apple of trying to railroad smaller labels into signing licensing deals.

"This is just another example of a monopolistic American company trying to dictate terms," said a source at one leading independent who said Apple only sent out the paperwork for the contracts last Tuesday.

"Most independents have similar concerns. None of the key UK labels have signed and the situation is similar in France. Everyone's feeling fairly walked over."

Leading independent Beggars Banquet, which represents artists including Swell and The Tindersticks, said it was refusing to sign up to iTunes Europe, despite having agreed a deal with Apple in the US.

"We're big fans of iTunes but we need to make sure we get acceptable terms," said Simon Wheeler, the label's head of new media and chair of lobby group the Association of Independent Music.

"When Apple launched iTunes in America it said there was one deal for everyone but we soon found out that the majors were getting paid more, sometimes a lot more than us. We need to make sure that we get the correct terms in Europe."

At the launch of its new digital jukebox service, European market leader OD2 said its own research revealed that download activity was severely reduced when there was little or no local music.

"The international catalogue doesn't sell at all unless you have local content," said the OD2 chief executive, Charles Grimsdale.

Apple is hoping that the European launch will attract a significant number of new users. In the US, where iTunes launched a little over a year ago, it has already racked up sales of over 70 million tracks at an average price of 99 cents.

While the US legal download market has rocketed during the past 18 months, the appetite for such services in Europe has been less marked.

Peter Gabriel's OD2, which provides the technology behind online services for Coca-Cola and Virgin, has been the European download leader since it started in 1999.

However, last year it sold just 3 million songs, While this figure is expected to rise dramatically this year European download figures are expected to still lag their American rivals.

But Apple's failure to secure a deal with French independents could even see the country taken off the list of territories that are due to get the service first.

According to promotional material being sent to shops in time for today's launch, the first European territories to get the company's hotly awaited service will be the UK and Ireland and three Scandinavian countries Denmark, Finland and Norway.

[Mac+1]

Anyone tried checking the Beatles singles. Oh, they are there, though not by them. :cool:

[guet]

Only one Björk track!?!?
neither of Kylie's 2 last albums?!
to name just two!
the only good thing i like is the price, but it is pointless when there is nothing really to download! :confused:

Shame about Björk.

heh, they have plenty of Stiff Little Fingers however.:D

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=14595180&selectedItemId=14594852

[jamesbulman]

Having waited for iTMS UK for ages, I'm really disappointed by the library of music they've got on offer, especially compared to iTMS US. There's virtually nothing under Moby, there's no Sarah McLachan, if they do have the artist chances are they have maybe a "partial" album available.

I simply don't believe they have 700,000 tracks available for iTMS UK.

All in extremely disappointing, they better sort this out soon.

[zim]

Having waited for iTMS UK for ages, I'm really disappointed by the library of music they've got on offer, especially compared to iTMS US. There's virtually nothing under Moby, there's no Sarah McLachan, if they do have the artist chances are they have maybe a "partial" album available.

I simply don't believe they have 700,000 tracks available for iTMS UK.

All in extremely disappointing, they better sort this out soon.

I doubt that apple controls which songs will be available to you. Seems to me that the record labels are still controlling the availability of song selections, seeing how they are responsible for delivering the tracks. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison and find out what labels are holding out on you in the UK.

I was hoping that the iTMS would break down the release date boundaries, along with the europe only tracks, but it looks like that will never happen. I do realize that some artist have released some of their unreleased in the US tracks on iTMS.

Oh well, maybe in a years time we will see some shifts in how music is distributed globally.

[SeanMcg]

partial albums?

why can't they use the full album? :mad:

Welcome to the wonderful world of iTMS and music licensing. If an artist has used music from someone else, or another artist appears with them on a track, licensing deals have to be struck with everyone who has an interest in that song. If someone says "No" for whatever reason, it cannot be sold.

I also have a feeling that some artists (or the labels) see offering the partial album as a compromise. If you buy all the songs from that album that they made availble, you'll end up paying more than you would if bought the entire album at the iTMS reduced album price. Or they view it as a teaser: get the tracks you like, and then maybe you'll actually buy the whole album on CD.

Don't get me wrong: I love iTMS. I was waiting for something like this for a long time, and I think Apple did it right. But the world of music licensing is one of those rings of hell that I do not want to deal with.

[dekator]

What does that mean? Have they launched it now?

Yepp, (as if it were still news ;-) all launched. That is: UK/France/Germany (note that this is not the placement of the EM).

The artists displayed on different pages differ slightly from shop to shop. E.g. the French and German store have some local bands on display.
Just tried: I registered at the German Store and can't buy fromt he French :(
Mmmhh... some tracks are identical: Tri Yann (French, or rather brezhoneg band) is both in the de and fr store but Mano Solo is only at the fr while neither is at the uk store. ****ty. Will prolly stick to buying CDs which don't have this kind of silly limitations...

[shamino]

my SHORT Indie want list:

Far East
Asylum Records
Ubiquity
Papa Records
Polydor
...
These aren't all indie labels. For instance, Polydor is an EMI label. And Asylum is part of Elektra, which is a Warner Bros. label.

[nagromme]

Sorry for double-post. Does that refer to Quicktime? Or to iTunes (which would obviously include Quicktime).

QuickTime. Apple has nearly caught up with Windows Media Player, and surpassed Real. And it doesn't count ALL the ways people get QT--some are not tracked.

"A recent report on media player market share sales for client and enterprise applications by research firm Frost & Sullivan showed Apple moving into second position with 36.8 percent of the market, after running a distant third a few years ago. That puts Apple above Real, which controls 24.9 percent and not too far off from Microsoft and its share of 38.2 percent."

http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3366831

[rhoughton]

Surely it'll mostly be Mac users downloading WMP and Windows' users downloading QT? Be surprising if QT didn't overtake WMP for downloads.

[frem001]

The indies are very important in the UK and Europe - especially among the young crowd - which I guess are Apple's principal target market. Although a lot of people here buy crap like Dido and Celine Dion, the folks likely to use ITMS are more likely to be interested in stuff on indie labels.

I still think the store should launch anyway but quickly sort out the problems with the indies as a priority.

Where the hell is the killers new album hot fuss....grrrrrrr :mad:

[jimjiminyjim]

One gets used to rumor forums where a sense of consensus is just about impossible. This forum is quite different. The agreement over needing to sing Indie's on is pretty solid. The idea that they will slowly sign on shows itself occasionally, but, by the end of the forum, there is a sense that Apple is not offering as good a deal to the independents as to the others. If true, that arouses my sense of indignation!

[nagromme]

Getting a sense from forum posters who don't know any inside info is one thing... but this seems to be the REAL story from the indie labels themselves:

http://macobserver.com/article/2004/06/16.1.shtml

Guess what? It sounds like it's the indies being greedy, not Apple! They want the option to raise song prices on us after 6-12 months if iTunes does well.

Hopefully they will see reason sooner rather than later. Apple hasn't let anyone--not even the big labels--raise iTunes prices.

[nagromme]

Surely it'll mostly be Mac users downloading WMP and Windows' users downloading QT? Be surprising if QT didn't overtake WMP for downloads.

By that logic, the numbers are especially amazing: if Apple hasn't quite overtaken MS, then slightly more Mac users are downloading WMP than Windows users are downloading QT! I don't think so :D

This isn't simply a download count. I don't know what defines "media player market share sales for client and enterprise applications" exactly, but it's not what you're assuming.

[greg75]

Guess what? It sounds like it's the indies being greedy, not Apple! They want the option to raise song prices on us after 6-12 months if iTunes does well.

Hopefully they will see reason sooner rather than later. Apple hasn't let anyone--not even the big labels--raise iTunes prices.

Executives representing some of Europe's major independent labels confirmed to The Mac Observer Tuesday that while Apple refused a shorter contract length and no price review option, it apparently negotiated such a deal with Vivendi Universal SA's Universal Music, one of the world's largest record labels.

"It's our understanding Apple agreed to a two-year contract with Universal and agreed to re-visit royalty pricing every six months," one executive who asked not to be identified, told TMO. "Why couldn't they agree to a similar deal with us?"
Hopefully Apple will stop trying to screw the indie labels sooner rather than later.

[DMann]

Hopefully Apple will stop trying to screw the indie labels sooner rather than later.

Might just be the other way around.........

[greg75]

Might just be the other way around.........
Yes, the indie labels are trying to screw Apple by demanding the same terms that Apple offers the big labels :rolleyes: