Microsoft Signs Leases to Open Retail Stores in Arizona and California

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/microsoft-signs-leases-to-open-retail-stores-in-arizona-and-california/)

According to CNET (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10296393-56.html), Microsoft has confirmed that it has signed leases for upcoming retail stores in Scottsdale, Arizona and Mission Viejo, California. The stores are among the first in Microsoft's retail store initiative that is planned to directly compete (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/15/microsoft-targeting-apple-stores-with-new-retail-store-concept/) with Apple's retail stores in a number of locations beginning later this year.The Orange County, Calif., store is in a mall that already houses an Apple retail store. Microsoft Chief Operating Officer Kevin Turner said at this month's Worldwide Partner Conference that some of the locations would be right near Apple stores.

The first stores' fall opening comes at an opportune time for Microsoft, which is launching Windows 7 on October 22.According to a presentation (http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-inside-the-microsoft-store-with-wall+sized-screens-and-the-answer-bar/gallery/) from Microsoft's retail consultant leaked last week, concepts for the stores include an "Answer Bar" or "Guru Bar" similar to Apple's Genius Bar, large digital media walls presenting dynamic information and images, and themed "stage areas" for various Microsoft technologies utilizing "Surface" multi-touch tables (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/30/microsoft-launches-multitouch-surface-computing/) for interactive experiences.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/07/29/100735-microsoft_store.jpg

Microsoft has reportedly hired (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/21/microsoft-recruits-former-apple-retail-store-exec-for-retail-initiative/) former Apple real estate chief George Blankenship as a consultant to assist the company with securing locations for its new retail stores.

Article Link: Microsoft Signs Leases to Open Retail Stores in Arizona and California (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/microsoft-signs-leases-to-open-retail-stores-in-arizona-and-california/)

[zgh1999]

Let's do the Social!

Squirt!

[unknown mr T]

a retail store so we can try out and see how crappy windows is.... :D
:apple: FTW

[techfreak85]

wow, the layout of the computers on the counters on the wall with banners above looks vaguely familiar.... but idk where....:eek::D:apple:


but i do think the surface thing is kinda cool. i might go in just to play with it.

[LillieDesigns]

It is crazy how Microsoft directly rips off Apple and do not even try to hide it. After my 360 broke and they refused to fix it I now own ZERO Microsoft products, nor will I ever own any again. Good luck Microsoft :apple:

[Dagless]

As much as I like and use Windows XP on my iMac (and my next machine will be a homebuild PC for gaming), I just wouldn't use these shops and I don't see much point in them. I know Microsoft sell hardware too but it's mostly just peripherals. What will this shop sell? Xbox games at a premium, peripherals and some software?

[HailToTheVictor]

If some of the stores are right next to Apple stores, I think it would lead to some great window displays. Something like, LOL ->, or a banner with PC poking his head around the corner and asking if can come over. That said, this will only bring about more competition and better end products.

[igazza]

10 year waiting list for the Guru Bar :D

[notjustjay]

All those blue panels and screens on that image.... I'm just waiting for someone to Photoshop in a BSOD.

Is this a sign that Microsoft is really concerned about Apple? When you've got 95% of the market share, on a platform that pretty much locks you into buying more products from the same company, is it really necessary to spend millions of dollars on stores to promote yourself? Doesn't virtually every household already own some sort of Microsoft product? It sounds to me like they're desperate to keep themselves in the public spotlight.

[gan6660]

You'd think they would want to open many stores in time for Christmas not just 2.:confused:

[226896]

I love how Microsoft are getting worried by Apple. Must be hard making a loss whilst Apple's profits go up.

[techfreak85]

10 year waiting list for the Guru Bar :D
when ur finished, i can just here them say,
"Ok you chose the Ultimate Guru help Package so that will be $499 for helping you reconfigure ur mail client" :p

[miketcool]

They could revive "the Social" and have Zune music events and whatnot with local bands and creatives. The Answer Bar is lame, they should have thought of a different name. It is a great way to show that they aren't an inhuman OS company like everyone teases them for being. Personally, I am excited to play with Surface. They also have the gamer advantage, might be a good idea to express that through Windows, not just Xbox.

[uberamd]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Registry Cleaning Bar (HLdan (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8182863&postcount=107))
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
The "Let us try and explain why the Zune doesn't completely suck" Bar
The Genuine Advantage Activation Experience Bar
The "Look at the sweet Texas Hold'em game you get with Windows Ultimate!!!!" Bar
The "$1 to lick Steve Ballmers Sweaty Head" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
Uninstall Vista and go back to XP Bar (nkawtg72 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8183137&postcount=130))
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's

[roland.g]

Windows trys to = OS X.

Now what is the chance their retail store will be the same. What do they sell other than software, Zunes and XBoxes?

[byke]

I am stunned that Microsoft has taken these directions as of late.
It clearly shows they are no longer the market or design leaders, and that Steve Baltimer is the wrong person to head the company.

I would have been so disappointed if I was Bill Gates and saw what Steve had done to a company that took years to build up.

All great companies innovate, but at present MS seems to be copying to keep up.

[BongoBanger]

A lot of people feeling threatened here. Me? I'll see what they have to offer before making any judgments.

Just sayin'.

I love how Microsoft are getting worried by Apple. Must be hard making a loss whilst Apple's profits go up.

Sure, if you call 'making a loss' realising double Apple's profits for the quarter.

[edesignuk]

I love how Microsoft are getting worried by Apple. Must be hard making a loss whilst Apple's profits go up.Making a loss? I don't think so.

[miketcool]

I love how Microsoft are getting worried by Apple. Must be hard making a loss whilst Apple's profits go up.

Let's be fair. I don't think M$ is worried. I think Apple had a brilliant retail strategy that paid off, and M$ wants to see if the same business strategy works. It's not like the Apple Store was the first store every created. M$ is using it as a model.

SonyStyle runs in a way that makes it feel like it is an arrogant BestBuy without little to no interaction with sales people. It is like a Sony gallery, where Apple is all about engaging you with their sales staff. Just look at the number of people working in an Apple Store vs. other electronics stores. M$ is just choosing the better business model to remake their image. It has nothing to do with worry, and everything to do with investors.

[xIGmanIx]

I am stunned that Microsoft has taken these directions as of late.
It clearly shows they are no longer the market or design leaders, and that Steve Baltimer is the wrong person to head the company.

I would have been so disappointed if I was Bill Gates and saw what Steve had done to a company that took years to build up.

All great companies innovate, but at present MS seems to be copying to keep up.

Catch up? 90% market share, not really at risk

[uberamd]

Catch up? 90% market share, not really at risk

Repeat after me: "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share."

[cmfilms]

concepts for the stores include an "Answer Bar" or "Guru Bar"

Bwah-ha-ha!

If you're going to rip off Apple, try a little harder.

[Stella]

I'm looking forward to these microsoft stores - it will encourage Apple to only improve their stores more.. which are already very good.

As they say, competition is good.

Repeat after me: "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share."

You can be sure that Apple wouldn't be saying "its not about marketshare" if they had 90% of the PC market... Strangely, when it comes to those Apple products that have a high market share - it becomes 'important'...

[miketcool]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


Perfect, said reasons above are why M$ is opening a human staffed store in your neighborhood. Someone could easily address all those issues with a smile and reassurance. This represents a culture shift for M$ and other companies may follow. I'm digging it, because it forces a company to come to terms with their problems.

Remember, Gateway did this before Apple did. I remember going in there a few times and thinking; there aren't enough people here, the location is terrible and the space is too big. Apple found the formula, improved it, and now M$ will add to it. It's called business, and image.

[Bjohnson33]

Windows trys to = OS X.

Now what is the chance their retail store will be the same. What do they sell other than software, Zunes and XBoxes?

I agree. Apple has a store full of hardware that people like to come and see before they buy. When there's a new iPod or laptop, people are eager to see them in person. I just don't see Microsoft having "fans" like Apple that are dying to see their latest wares.

[cmfilms]

It has nothing to do with worry, and everything to do with investors.

It has everything to do with worry. Have you seen the numbers on college campuses? Sure baby boomers like their PCs, but Gen X and Yers are choosing Macs at eery opportunity. The decisions made in college are going to be lifelong lifestyle choices and MS doesn't find a way to curb it, the next generation is going to raise their kids on Mac. The only way MS stays in this is corporate IT, but those jobs are getting handed down too and eventually someone is going to say in a meeting, "We spend so much money on IT and computer repair, what would the long term savings be to go Mac?"

[HLdan]

Once again, another idea that Apple already is doing gets followed by Microsoft. Why can't MS come up with their own ideas. A brick n mortar store is nothing new but once Apple takes the plunge and has success then poor un-innovative and idea-copying Microshaft has to follow Apple's lead. FAIL.

The reason Apple is successful with the retail stores is because they had fun and innovative products that are selling. There's nothing MS has that will make people flood their stores like the Apple store. The Xbox can be bought at damn near 7-11.

[notjustjay]

SonyStyle runs in a way that makes it feel like it is an arrogant BestBuy without little to no interaction with sales people.

On the other hand, I liked the Sony stores because the atmosphere (at least the one nearest me) was more like a high-end electronics shop than a place like Best Buy. Where you develop working relationships with the sales people. And, you can negotiate, rather easily even:

(after a few minutes of discussion about a camcorder)
Me: "... ok, so I'm interested. Can you better than $1299?"
Salesperson: *checks computer* "I can sell it to you for $1238."
Me: "Throw in a couple of tapes?"
Salesperson: "Sure."
Me: "Great, we have a deal."

Getting a deal at Best Buy is like pulling teeth. And a month after the transaction I received a thank-you card in the mail from the salesperson, hoping I was satisfied with the camera.

[imwoblin]

I'll have to check out the Mission Viejo location since it is in my backyard. I wonder how close the storefronts will be. It will be interesting to see the store layout and such. This announcement must also mean that Microsoft will be rolling out new intriguing products because I don't now how anyone could get excited about purchasing an operating system or computer peripherals such as mice and keyboards.

[thanxal]

GREAT! Now I can do the following:
(1) Return my TWO HP Pavilion tablets that HP claims burnt out the wireless and dvd/cd rom controllers because Windows "made the processor run exceptionally hard" thus "taxing the fan beyond its capacity resulting in excessive heat".
(2) Return my 2 year old custom-built desktop that suffered from two consecutive crashes due to Windows Update software updates that conflicted with my power supply thus causing blue screens of death.
(3) Deliver a bill for the last year's worth of lost productivity due to viruses that got through the AV resulting in the need to format c:\ (or do I go to the AV store?).
(4) Return the nine peripheral devices that stopped working when I bought the new machines with Vista, machines that the manufacturers were not allowed by Microsoft to install XP on.

Except for (4) that was just 2008.

[designgeek]

Well good luck, all the marketing crass in the world can't make up for their shortcomings.

[griz]

Wow, a store that will sell what? A whole bunch of computers that aren't made by Microsoft but have Windows on them. Oh, and the Zune and Xbox. Maybe throw in a couple cell phones with WinMobile. That should be a big bag of FUN.

[kinless]

Funny, I live about 4 miles from the Shops in Mission Viejo where they plan on putting one of the stores. In fact, I bought my 12" Powerbook G4 from the Apple store there.

There aren't any vacant spots within the immediate vicinity of where the Apple store is located, so I'm betting it'll either be on the first floor ( is on 2nd floor) or the opposite end of the mall.

[JPark]

One big reason this won't work: Microsoft doesn't sell the computers their OS runs on. They're going to get swarmed with customers who have hardware problems and those customers will not be happy when they get turned away at the bar.

[miketcool]

I'm looking forward to these microsoft stores - it will encourage Apple to only improve their stores more.. which are already very good.

As they say, competition is good.

The call of the Competition-Will-Make-Apple-Amazinger geek. How about, another company looking to enhance usability and customer satisfaction will benefit US. I could give a rats behind what competition may or may not do. What if it makes Apple even more power hungry and controlling over things, and less open? I am just excited to see that another offering is getting better for ME the consumer, who is tired of being screwed over in the name of competition.

[uberamd]

Where you develop working relationships with the sales people.

Sales people care about the sale, so they suck up to you.

[xIGmanIx]

Repeat after me: "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share." "It's not just about market share."

repeat after me, its all about market share its all about market share its all about market share.

Who doesn't strive for market share? Seriously? You think apple is ok with their market share and position in their space? naive

[BongoBanger]

Once again, another idea that Apple already is doing gets followed by Microsoft. Why can't MS come up with their own ideas. A brick n mortar store is nothing new but once Apple takes the plunge and has success then poor un-innovative and idea-copying Microshaft has to follow Apple's lead. FAIL.

Yeah because Sony never had stores before Apple.

Oh yeah, and who copied who by moving from PPC to Intel to use x86 ISA?

Anyone?

[Rot'nApple]

The first stores' fall opening comes at an opportune time for Microsoft, which is launching Windows 7 on October 22.

Unless Wiindows 7 is still mired by the Vista aftertaste... C'mon you businesses and john q. public, buy Window 7... it's Vista "done" right! Yeah, should be interesting.

Will anyone be there with a counter and report back on the Grand Opening... I would love to know the following....

How many came and visit the store and out of those, how many placed an order for something?

Inquiring minds want to know!:rolleyes:

[uberamd]

repeat after me, its all about market share its all about market share its all about market share.

Who doesn't strive for market share? Seriously? You think apple is ok with their market share and position in their space? naive

I don't think Apple wants to have a huge market share that badly. To have 90%, Apple would need to sell those cheap netbooks, low end systems, and get into markets they don't want to be in. So yeah, I think they are content making record profits like they currently do.

[cmfilms]

This is a massive gamble on Microsoft's part... Let's assume that it doesn't work. MS will pump money to keep these stores afloat. And when they close, for the first time MS will have a public display of its failure. This is what could be most damaging to the business. A shuttered Windows store is going to damage their reputation on a massive scale.

Did you notice that these stores are going in Mac-heavy states about as far from Redmond as you can get?

[miketcool]

On the other hand, I liked the Sony stores because the atmosphere (at least the one nearest me) was more like a high-end electronics shop than a place like Best Buy. Where you develop working relationships with the sales people. And, you can negotiate, rather easily even:

(after a few minutes of discussion about a camcorder)
Me: "... ok, so I'm interested. Can you better than $1299?"
Salesperson: *checks computer* "I can sell it to you for $1238."
Me: "Throw in a couple of tapes?"
Salesperson: "Sure."
Me: "Great, we have a deal."

Getting a deal at Best Buy is like pulling teeth. And a month after the transaction I received a thank-you card in the mail from the salesperson, hoping I was satisfied with the camera.

BestBuy is a dirty, big boxed whore when it comes to dealing. I'm not knocking the SonyStyle, I always strolled through it when I was at the mall, they had a lot of things to touch. It sits right across from the Apple Store and the two are polar opposites. I never saw anyone buy anything from there, I never bought a thing. It was really just a cool, high tech gallery to drool over.

I will take into consideration, the haggling. I used to be able to haggle at the Apple Store, not so much anymore.

[xIGmanIx]

I don't think Apple wants to have a huge market share that badly. To have 90%, Apple would need to sell those cheap netbooks, low end systems, and get into markets they don't want to be in. So yeah, I think they are content making record profits like they currently do.

and i think you both agree neither you nor I have any viability into their strategic growth plan or where they are taking their future revenues. Who knows what it takes to upgrade their market share, but its not like mircosoft is not making any revenue either.

[miketcool]

The first stores' fall opening comes at an opportune time for Microsoft, which is launching Windows 7 on October 22.\Will anyone be there with a counter and report back on the Grand Opening...

Discount Windows 7 and give me a crappy, made-in-china, door prize, and I'm there. After all, everything in the Apple Store is made-in-china, aside from packaging. Might as well copy the entire experience right?

[cmfilms]

I used to be able to haggle at the Apple Store, not so much anymore.

This is a good thing? I find haggling annoying, as a business owner and a consumer. I have worked hard to give my customers the best price for the best product and when they come to me and try to save $20 it tells me that they don't value my product and all they care about is price. I'm not a value-leader in my market but if they want quality video production at a fair price they can get it here.

Same goes for Apple. As long as the product is quality, I'll pay what they ask. They've earned at least that much trust.

[xIGmanIx]

Discount Windows 7 and give me a crappy, made-in-china, door prize, and I'm there. After all, everything in the Apple Store is made-in-china, aside from packaging. Might as well copy the entire experience right?

I know right? Why should we not support microsofts sweat shop and just Appples? Personally, i can't stand a majority of the folks that make up this demographic of users (myself included :D) so i tend to avoid stores like apple regardless of their proven value

[drumcat]

In Snobsdale? Those people are the anti-laptop-hunters. They buy stuff 'cuz it's purdy.

Big miss on that one. Should have been in a less affluent area.

[miketcool]

Don't anyone try to gloss over the fact that George Blankenship was in charge of creating the Apple Store for Steve Jobs. It's not like he was head of Gap Inc. strategy for their stores in the late 90s. Come to think of it, the Apple Store in no way resembles the Gap. Whitewashed walls, brightly lit, natural wood finishes. Apple ripped off the Gap, and we think M$ is the only one in the business of copying...

[Dmac77]

Anyone here remember the GateWay Store?

I didn't think so.

Don

[cmfilms]

Come to think of it, the Apple Store in no way resembles the Gap.

Oh, yah Sarcasm! Real original!!!

These decisions (white walls, wood floors) are all out of millions and millions of dollars worth of research. Gap took their ideas from the high end stores on Michigan Ave and Rodeo Drive. What Apple did was put computer products in that setting.

[miketcool]

This is a good thing? I find haggling annoying, as a business owner and a consumer. I have worked hard to give my customers the best price for the best product and when they come to me and try to save $20 it tells me that they don't value my product and all they care about is price. I'm not a value-leader in my market but if they want quality video production at a fair price they can get it here.

Same goes for Apple. As long as the product is quality, I'll pay what they ask. They've earned at least that much trust.

So every product in the Apple Store is a good price? I think MobileME is a ********** joke of a product because it performs so horrendously slow and buggy. I like to renew it for under $99 because its crap and Apple knows it is lacking since the iPhone debuted.

I don't know what you sell, but I know as a small business owner, you probably have the ability to deserve amazing products at fair prices. This concept seems to drift away when investors and image are at stake. Like keeping product fires from the press, and actual problems under the rug. I pay what I feel is fair. There are some people who are just cheap, and I am certainly not one of them.

[jzuena]

Discount Windows 7 and give me a crappy, made-in-china, door prize, and I'm there. After all, everything in the Apple Store is made-in-china, aside from packaging. Might as well copy the entire experience right?

Windows 7 release day tee shirts!

[OllyW]

Making a loss? I don't think so.

Well, they are having to struggle by on only $1 billion a month profit. :rolleyes:

[PRIMECHUCK]

Has MicroCrap had an original idea........ ever?

[jsadwith]

It is crazy how Microsoft directly rips off Apple and do not even try to hide it. After my 360 broke and they refused to fix it I now own ZERO Microsoft products, nor will I ever own any again. Good luck Microsoft :apple:

You're right! Apple was the first brand ever to open a retail store, so no other computer companies can do so now. Shame on Microsoft!

[Stella]

I've found staff at the Sony store knowledgeable, they know the products, unlike Best Buy staff - who know jack s?it.

If I was buying a sony product, I'd rather buy at the Sony store than Best Buy. The only good thing about Best Buy is the generous return policies.


On the other hand, I liked the Sony stores because the atmosphere (at least the one nearest me) was more like a high-end electronics shop than a place like Best Buy. Where you develop working relationships with the sales people. And, you can negotiate, rather easily even:

(after a few minutes of discussion about a camcorder)
Me: "... ok, so I'm interested. Can you better than $1299?"
Salesperson: *checks computer* "I can sell it to you for $1238."
Me: "Throw in a couple of tapes?"
Salesperson: "Sure."
Me: "Great, we have a deal."

Getting a deal at Best Buy is like pulling teeth. And a month after the transaction I received a thank-you card in the mail from the salesperson, hoping I was satisfied with the camera.

[miketcool]

Windows 7 release day tee shirts!

to be honest, I was really hoping for a shirt with Steve Balmer's or Bill Gate's face, Obama style, with the word "CHANGE" underneath. Just put some $$ signs in their eyes and I am there, waiting in line.

[the vj]

Imagine the huge amount of full time technicians fixing the interactive displays...

I work in digital signage and I see my competitor with the blue screen of death on their displays always. Windows is very unreliable unless you have a guru besides.

I like the idea of the store, I will go and visit even I doubt I would buy anything.

[notjustjay]

Sales people care about the sale, so they suck up to you.

I'm not pretending we're going to be buddies. But I like that I can walk into a store and essentially say "Hey, remember me, you got me a really great deal on a product last time I was here, now I'm interested in buying this, please get me another great deal."

[ProwlingTiger]

What are they going to do when their machines BSOD in front of their customers? Retail stores? M$ barely has any hardware to sell. The way things are going, this will probably drive people to Apple more as they will dislike the stores and products of Microsoft and walk on over to the Apple Store.


Thanks M$

[CPPMaster]

Last call for Mark, Andrew, Susan, Steve, ahh, ok, the all store for virus removal.

Micros(word) ...

[jedoyle]

I'm still confused as to what these stores will sell? Will it just be Microsoft OS and peripherals? If so that would be a waste of money since you can just go to Best Buy and buy Windows

[Shasterball]

I have to say, the surface multi-touch tables are schweeet!

[HLdan]

Catch up? 90% market share, not really at risk

Ha ha, I just love how people defend Microsoft with the market share thingy. Let's see, what do they have 90% market share in? Hmm. Windows (not Vista) has a tad over 80%. What else? Hmm, NOTHING.
Apple has dominance with iTunes, the iTunes store, the iPod and the iPhone has killed sales of Windows mobile smart phones and is taking huge bites out of the Blackberry business. The Mac computers are selling incredibly well and MS knows this.

Wow, Microsoft has dominance in one thing, Windows and that's declining.

[Ronlap]

Let's see how this works. You walk into the Microsoft store to look at a bunch of gear that Microsoft doesn't make, play with a PC to decide what you want, then get in your car to drive to the outskirts of town to Best Buy to purchase one. Or you go 3 stores down to the Apple Store and get instant gratification. Hmmmm... tough choice.

Is it just me, or does this echo the out-of-the-way Gateway stores where you could look but not buy?

[Stella]

Has MicroCrap had an original idea........ ever?

Surface.

It may not be aimed at the consumer ( yet ), but its making its way into businesses, and tends to go down very well.

Surface really is a good piece of technology. If Apple had made this,everyone on this forum would be raving about it - but since its made by microsoft...

[noodle654]

Microsoft is going to show off software, great for them?? When I see people in an Apple Store they go "OMG THIS COMPUTER IS SO THIN!! THE MACBOOK AIR IS AWESOME!!". Apple has this on lock, I don't think this is much to worry about. It will be a problem, however, if Microsoft puts of things bashing OS X in their stores.

[cmfilms]

So every product in the Apple Store is a good price? I think MobileME is a ********** joke of a product because it performs so horrendously slow and buggy. I like to renew it for under $99 because its crap and Apple knows it is lacking since the iPhone debuted.

I don't know what you sell, but I know as a small business owner, you probably have the ability to deserve amazing products at fair prices. This concept seems to drift away when investors and image are at stake. Like keeping product fires from the press, and actual problems under the rug. I pay what I feel is fair. There are some people who are just cheap, and I am certainly not one of them.

I'm not sure about your MobileMe problems there. It works fantastic for me. If the people that are happy with it were as loud as the six people who hate it, it'd be a different story.

But I digress, you're right image IS at stake. And part of that image is having an established price. By curbing haggling in their stores, Apple has made it a point that their retail stores are not about big flashy sales or cutting a deal with the clerk. Once you open the door and say that the Apple Nano can be sold at your store for $134, you allow a crack in the image that you've built.

[xIGmanIx]

Ha ha, I just love how people defend Microsoft with the market share thingy. Let's see, what do they have 90% market share in? Hmm. Windows (not Vista) has a tad over 80%. What else? Hmm, NOTHING.
Apple has dominance with iTunes, the iTunes store, the iPod and the iPhone has killed sales of Windows mobile smart phones and is taking huge bites out of the Blackberry business. The Mac computers are selling incredibly well and MS knows this.

Wow, Microsoft has dominance in one thing, Windows and that's declining.

have you heard of any office support suite? iTunes? That is your personal preference, i personally think iTunes is crap. Huge bites out of RIM? not really buying that.

[the-oz-man]

Does any think that the shadowy figure in the picture looks like something not from this world. "That's a huge noggin!"

[sellitom]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


+1

[avkills]

I welcome the stores; it should be very interesting. Someone posted a very good point in that every goofball in the world is going to be bringing their computers in for someone to "look" at. I wonder how Microsoft is going to deal with these people.

And yes the surface tables are pretty cool.

-mark

[miketcool]

Imagine the huge amount of full time technicians fixing the interactive displays...

I work in digital signage and I see my competitor with the blue screen of death on their displays always. Windows is very unreliable unless you have a guru besides.

I like the idea of the store, I will go and visit even I doubt I would buy anything.

Windows never slowed down the production of any Apple products at the factory. Windows didn't slow down the engineering of the iPhone. Windows also didn't slow down the making of many, many Apple ad campaigns. Ironic to think that they used Windows in the creation of so many Apple products.

That would be a good display: that photo of Windows running in a Foxconn factory. M$ should purposefully exploit those situations and make fun of them. Even if iPhone worships gripe and claim they are copycats. When did we all become incessant, whiny, little playground brats?

[SFStateStudent]

What about a "What was the question; I was so busy haggling with Yahoo and beat Apple at their own game BAR?":p:p:p

[Electrolytic]

Great, its about time. I think it will be impressive. If they were smart they would custom spec in pc's from Dell to sell in the store.

Dell PC & a clean copy of Windows 7, no bloatware.

[MacVixen]

I'm still confused as to what these stores will sell? Will it just be Microsoft OS and peripherals? If so that would be a waste of money since you can just go to Best Buy and buy Windows

I've wondered myself, and based on comments, it sounds like it will be more of a "lifestyle" store, where you can see how Microsoft products can be used more in your digital life. Don't know much about Vista Ultimate or any of that, but I understand that it is a media control center? So picture a little mini-living room set up with the media center running controlling various equipment.

In the end though, I am confused as to the $$. Retail space is not cheap, and it's all well and good to want to promote a lifestyle to customers, but in the end, it's SALES that pay the mall rent and I can't see the store selling enought copies of Office and Windows 7, along with XBoxes and Zunes to make them profitable. But maybe that's not the point. As others have pointed out, MS has some cash in the bank, and it's only 3 stores right now, so perhaps they are prepared to lose money on the stores themselves with the tradeoff that the Microsoft name gets more exposure.

[FakeWozniak]

It is a good idea to follow Apple's lead. You can't knock Microsoft for doing this, regardless of who thought of it first. They probably had planned on this long ago but public perception kept them from this ("just ripping Apple off again"). IMHO, that's a bad reason as everyone borrows ideas, including Apple.

I imagine Microsoft will regret waiting this long as I expect the stores to be successful/popular. The Windows 7 debut might have taken off better if the stores were everywhere and started showing the propaganda now. I agree that their help desk will be the most popular feature. I would probably visit one of their stores on the way to the Apple Store. I'll just have to dodge all the eggs being thrown at the Microsoft Store facade. :eek:

One last question, why is Microsoft doing their own stores now and not just setting up propaganda booths in long established pro-Microsoft national chain stores like Best Buy and Walmart?

[andy721]

I swear it's one after another, copying apple again. They need to stop. They sell crappy PC's for the price you get plastic crap that last a week then what? THEN WHAT!? Been using windows 7 for months & not liking it anymore, it's a cop off vista same system kernel, they just need to redo the whole thing. It's just the same old boring crap.:mad:

[mobi]

Who is next to adopt Apple's business model? Didn't they patent that?

[miketcool]

I'm not sure about your MobileMe problems there. It works fantastic for me. If the people that are happy with it were as loud as the six people who hate it, it'd be a different story.

It is mainly my experience through the browser. Whenever I get on it at different places I have worked, or through other people's machines via Safari, Firefox, Opera, and IE, I get issues.

It won't refresh when new email arrives. It will error out on a 2nd or 3rd email I am trying to send. The page will load blank. It is slow as all get out. It logs me out randomly and it never, never NEVER pushes. I compare all of this to my experience with gmail, which has its problems too, but runs great. It is also free, which makes my paying for MobileME, ridiculously painful.

I would say all of my issues appeared last iPhone launch cycle with the 3G. remember the outages and the nightmare Apple created by too many variables on the same day. Software updates, infrastructure shift, online service swap, account creation, billing, and hyped product launch all in a 4 hour period. Nice work boys, you had a melt down, and I feel I am still dealing with the side effects.

[HLdan]

Yeah because Sony never had stores before Apple.

Oh yeah, and who copied who by moving from PPC to Intel to use x86 ISA?

Anyone?

There was nowhere in my post that said Apple was the first to have an innovative store. The Sony Style stores were in fact pretty in cool IMO. They had a very futuristic look. This is not the issue, Microsoft can do whatever they want but the blatent copying needs to stop. Gimme a break. A Guru Bar???

And how is Apple copying anyone by changing the CPU in their computers? They were first using the Motorola chips, then to PowerPC, now to Intel. I had no idea Windows PC's owned the rights to Intel processors. :rolleyes:

[andy721]

Great, its about time. I think it will be impressive. If they were smart they would custom spec in pc's from Dell to sell in the store.

Dell PC & a clean copy of Windows 7, no bloatware.

Sorry to tell you this but this will never happen. Microsoft just wants a quick buck and think they can be creative in their own little minds and swoop people into buying useless crap.

[shiseiryu1]

Instead of having an "Answer Bar" they can just have a big red button that you push after you ask a question. No matter what you ask the response will always be:

"Scan your system with Anti-virus/Anti-spyware, check your firewall, download any Windows Updates, reboot your system. If you still are experiencing difficulties, please contact your hardware vendor."

I think that's probably going to be their response to 95% of questions that they're going to get anyhow...might as well save a lot of time and money and just put a big red button there.

[noodle654]

have you heard of any office support suite? iTunes? That is your personal preference, i personally think iTunes is crap. Huge bites out of RIM? not really buying that.

You may think that iTunes is crap, your opinion, but the sales from the iTunes store and the amount of people that use iTunes puts anything that Windows has for media to shame (I mean Windows Media Player and such). The iPhone is taking bites out of RIM...where have you been the past 2 years? Apple and RIM are the largest smartphone makers in the world. iPhones market share is skyrocketing.

[Powerbooky]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


Oh, and almost any Apple Store is like an internetcafé. Hundreds of people are surfing the internet, check their email and stuff on demo machines all over the store. I guess that won't be allowed in MS Stores, unless they hire the al least the double amount of staff to reinstall each PC several times a day and do hourly firewall/viruscheck updates.

The "Windows reinstallation bar" would be one of the busiest places of the store.

[sellitom]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

[andy721]

Who is next to adopt Apple's business model? Didn't they patent that?

No but I'm pretty sure they'll start using that word "I have a patent for that".
Maybe Microsoft will come up with a commercial about it, everyone loves their buy a pc under 1000 bucks. Seriously what a joke.

[miketcool]

Great, its about time. I think it will be impressive. If they were smart they would custom spec in pc's from Dell to sell in the store.

Dell PC & a clean copy of Windows 7, no bloatware.

They should model after the Lego stores and make huge displays out of mice. I love them mice, cheap, durable and well made. It'd be sweet to have a display you could walk through with hundreds of glowing red M$ mice.

[andy721]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

Pretty much a mac not everyone here is 75 years old.

[miketcool]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

They just sat and stared, having prophetic visions like Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. A sculpture of a molar-shaped box with a screen. This means something, this MEANS something.

[notjustjay]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

Windows XP on a (then) top-of-the-line Dell laptop.

Your point?

Then again, I'm not an anti-MS fanboy. I still use Windows at work and I have Office on my Mac, and I have no problems with either.

[johncarync]

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/07/29/100735-microsoft_store.jpg

I'll come in just to marvel at the transparent benches but I'll try to avoid the creepy, monotone-gray sales staff.
:)

[DELLsFan]

Pffft ... no stores near me.

[andy721]

Windows XP on a (then) top-of-the-line Dell laptop.

Your point?

Then again, I'm not an anti-MS fanboy. I still use Windows at work and I have Office on my Mac, and I have no problems with either.

Because your work only uses XP OS's you have no other choice then wake up and use it. Unless you find a different job that uses Mac OS's too.

[jsadwith]

I swear it's one after another, copying apple again. They need to stop. They sell crappy PC's for the price you get plastic crap that last a week then what? THEN WHAT!? Been using windows 7 for months & not liking it anymore, it's a cop off vista same system kernel, they just need to redo the whole thing. It's just the same old boring crap.:mad:

Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't sell PC's.

[nkawtg72]

All those blue panels and screens on that image.... I'm just waiting for someone to Photoshop in a BSOD.

Is this a sign that Microsoft is really concerned about Apple? When you've got 95% of the market share, on a platform that pretty much locks you into buying more products from the same company, is it really necessary to spend millions of dollars on stores to promote yourself? Doesn't virtually every household already own some sort of Microsoft product? It sounds to me like they're desperate to keep themselves in the public spotlight.

you've hit the nail on the head. we get people in these forums saying us mac fanboys need to get a life that apple can't hold a stick to MS and its huge marketshare.

now we are once again presented with MS stating without a doubt that they are trying to go head to head with apple. funny how MS is saying and confirming exactly what we already know, apple has successfully been putting the screws to them.

[andy721]

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/07/29/100735-microsoft_store.jpg

I'll come in just to marvel at the transparent benches but I'll try to avoid the creepy, monotone-gray sales staff.
:)

That's racist :)

[miketcool]

Pretty much a mac not everyone here is 75 years old.

I'm 24 and I had 2 Tandys, a Compaq laptop running Windows 3.11 for Workgroups and 2 Gateways. Technically, the Tandys were the only ones to really come before I got my Mac Classic and Performa, but I didn't end getting PCs until I got my iMac and OS X.

[PRIMECHUCK]

Surface.

It may not be aimed at the consumer ( yet ), but its making its way into businesses, and tends to go down very well.

Surface really is a good piece of technology. If Apple had made this,everyone on this forum would be raving about it - but since its made by microsoft...

Again, not an original idea. This was original made by Sun systems. I have used it already in a corporate level job and its.....ok. Not as responsive as Apples touch system.

[andy721]

Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't sell PC's.

Yes they do. It's the same thing as putting a common OS into a PC from a different company brand. Think about it. It's inside a PC or it could be a mac but mostly they focus putting their product into a PC.

[xIGmanIx]

You may think that iTunes is crap, your opinion, but the sales from the iTunes store and the amount of people that use iTunes puts anything that Windows has for media to shame (I mean Windows Media Player and such). The iPhone is taking bites out of RIM...where have you been the past 2 years? Apple and RIM are the largest smartphone makers in the world. iPhones market share is skyrocketing.

No, Nokia and RIM are the largest smartphone makers, apple is playing catchup.

[salesguy]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


QFMFT! :D

[iDrinkKoolAid]

But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

The first personal computer I ever purchased was a Macintosh LC II. Studying engineering, I had to purchase PCs twice, but my Compaq desktop broke within two weeks and I couldn't get any tech support from the Indian call center for my Dell 9300 laptop. Life was less stressful using MATLAB, Visual C++ and PSPICE under Virtual PC during my Pre-OS X PowerPC years.

[carmenodie]

You think MS is going to offer solutions when the problems with their licensed OS is the money maker?
Please. If you have a virus what is the guru going to do, tell you to buy Norton's anti virus that is like in 500 different flavors. You know MS doesn't have a built in virus killer.
Look, MS makes its money off of their OS from pc sells. So the pc vendor has to do everything possible to get you to buy, including Best Buy and the like, another pc. Boom! That is the business model.
Now if MS went on a limb and start helping you have a stable pc experience, then there goes the pc sell along with MSs OS profit. Them OEMs will be pissed.
This is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to trick the stock market into thinking MS has one up on Apple.
When these stores open, we'll see who gets the better customer service, Apple folks at Apple or pc folks at them MS stores. I think you already know the answer.

[andy721]

I'm 24 and I had 2 Tandys, a Compaq laptop running Windows 3.11 for Workgroups and 2 Gateways. Technically, the Tandys were the only ones to really come before I got my Mac Classic and Performa, but I didn't end getting PCs until I got my iMac and OS X.

Well thats why everyone switch because it was new and it worked. Kinda like this corrupt crappy OS coming out from google. Don't get it they just want your info and spy on us plus they already have 92837928574 trillion dollars to begin with but watch everyone flock to it test it out for a few months then either hate it or love it. But I don't see the competition.

[HLdan]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
And Registry Cleaning Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


There, fixed that for ya!;)

[Electrolytic]

I swear it's one after another, copying apple again. They need to stop. They sell crappy PC's for the price you get plastic crap that last a week then what? THEN WHAT!? Been using windows 7 for months & not liking it anymore, it's a cop off vista same system kernel, they just need to redo the whole thing. It's just the same old boring crap.:mad:

Yeah the Dell PC that I bought on 7/29/2005 is still running great with no issues... It runs XP, Vista & WIN7 with no trouble.. Also the metal case that its in is pretty nice...

[andy721]

There, fixed that for ya!;)

Registry Cleaning Bar can be tricky and screw up everything seems windows love doing that. Sometimes it works I give them that but I don't see it lasting for more then a few months.

[SFStateStudent]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

I believe it was a TRS-80 with basic programming language selling for about $500.....lol :p:p:p

[andy721]

Yeah the Dell PC that I bought on 7/29/2005 is still running great with no issues... It runs XP, Vista & WIN7 with no trouble.. Also the metal case that its in is pretty nice...

Yeah I have no problems with windows 7 or xp but vista is just pure failure garbage. Win7 reminds me of it which it's pretty much vista but with a bit of a performance boost and some tweaks but that's all I see. Just a big update. I hope snow leopard is what they say it does actually does it.

[Stella]

Again, not an original idea. This was original made by Sun systems. I have used it already in a corporate level job and its.....ok. Not as responsive as Apples touch system.

Well, you could say "What original idea has Apple had?", and you could find prior examples for the majority where this has been done before.

For example:
iTMS - well, not original because there have been online store selling digital products before.
AppStore - well, no, because there have been online stores selling smartphone applications before AppStore saw the light of day - you could use your phone to download the software and install directly on your phone.

[windywoo]

It was already stated in another thread what these stores are going to focus on; Windows 7, Surface and Zune. Of course they will still want PCs to run Windows 7 on, it remains to be seen whose PCs they use. I would guess that if people bring their PCs in to get fixed they will tell people to call the manufacturer, and if the machine is out of warranty they might offer to fix it for some extortionate price, just like Apple. But remember that Apple users expect to get this service at an Apple store because its in their Applecare plan. PC users don't have his expectation, it's not part of PC culture to take it to a shop to get it fixed, you expect the repair guy to come to you.

Will the fanbois quit harping on about copying? If a business model is good, of course others are going to try it. If Apple hadn't copied anything there would be no iPod, no iPhone. Some things are just useful, Apple has no copyright on useful.

[sellitom]

Pretty much a mac not everyone here is 75 years old.

"Pretty much a mac" ...?

I am not 75; I am 23 and I have owned an HP desktop, still own a Dell laptop and also have a MBP and an iMac. My point is that it is amusing to sit here and read comments people make about a STORE.

I am sure the fanboys will really lose it when MS plays their Laptop Hunter commercials in the new stores. It will be an apple fanboy apocalypse.

[miketcool]

Well thats why everyone switch because it was new and it worked. Kinda like this corrupt crappy OS coming out from google. Don't get it they just want your info and spy on us plus they already have 92837928574 trillion dollars to begin with but watch everyone flock to it test it out for a few months then either hate it or love it. But I don't see the competition.

Wah wah, I switched developing focus from the iPhone to Android. Obviously you are young, so I won't try and shift the focus of this thread too much. your darling iPhone sells out your information every second it is connected to your AT&T tower. Patriot Act partnership with AT&T. They record every bit of data off that baby. Deal with it.

I would like to see a Google store, where all the employees where costumes to look like children's show characters. Their interface is so basic feeling, you might as well make the store feel strange as well. Chrome should have a lot of nice R&D from Android when it rolls out. Each update of Android I get only makes it slicker. Still waiting for the sexy interface in Eclair.:D

[briansolomon]

A windows genius bar will be a giant disaster.

:apple:

[Electrolytic]

Sorry to tell you this but this will never happen. Microsoft just wants a quick buck and think they can be creative in their own little minds and swoop people into buying useless crap.

I disagree, with WIN7, XBOX LIVE, Project Natal & Bing I think MS has some cool products. That's not to say they don't have some turds (MSN & ZUNE) that they need to drop or redo...

[miketcool]

"Pretty much a mac" ...?

I am not 75; I am 23 and I have owned an HP desktop, still own a Dell laptop and also have a MBP and an iMac. My point is that it is amusing to sit here and read comments people make about a STORE.

I am sure the fanboys will really lose it when MS plays their Laptop Hunter commercials in the new stores. It will be an apple fanboy apocalypse.

I just got the slow motion video footage of their reaction when they see people happy inside, playing Xbox games, families using Surface. It'll be that scene with their horrified faces, crying, peering in. Camera zooms in slow motion with the Joker whine/sound from Dark Night. Apocalypse indeed.

[*LTD*]

Microsoft is forever following Apple. Some things never change.

No, Baldmer, this STILL won't make your ailing dinosaur operation look "cool."

MS is truly out of ideas, and for years now.

Whoops, that's not entirely true. They've still got that Big-Ass Table(TM) . . . somewhere.

[Mac4Brains]

has Microshaft had any original ideas at all or is everything they do a copy of Apple.

[herbalizer]

I have to say, the surface multi-touch tables are schweeet!


I've used one on the Microcrap campus. (friends work there). Trust me, it's retarded. You'll sit down expecting something amazing and get up two minutes later when you realize it's just another stupid idea from M$.

Only idiots will go to the M$ store. Only idiots buy M$ products.

[sellitom]

I just got the slow motion video footage of their reaction when they see people happy inside, playing Xbox games, families using Surface. It'll be that scene with their horrified faces, crying, peering in. Camera zooms in slow motion with the Joker whine/sound from Dark Night. Apocalypse indeed.

A spectacle I will not want to miss.

[HLdan]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

Ha ha, you're not helping your case here. What did we own before a Mac? Well, for me of course a Windows PC. What do I own now? A Mac. Your point?? What's significant is what I own now, not what I owned before. :D Also, I can assure you there are a lot of people here who've never owned anything other than a Mac.

[nkawtg72]

It is mainly my experience through the browser. Whenever I get on it at different places I have worked, or through other people's machines via Safari, Firefox, Opera, and IE, I get issues.

It won't refresh when new email arrives. It will error out on a 2nd or 3rd email I am trying to send. The page will load blank. It is slow as all get out. It logs me out randomly and it never, never NEVER pushes. I compare all of this to my experience with gmail, which has its problems too, but runs great. It is also free, which makes my paying for MobileME, ridiculously painful.

I would say all of my issues appeared last iPhone launch cycle with the 3G. remember the outages and the nightmare Apple created by too many variables on the same day. Software updates, infrastructure shift, online service swap, account creation, billing, and hyped product launch all in a 4 hour period. Nice work boys, you had a melt down, and I feel I am still dealing with the side effects.

i'm not buying it. if i were having those problems, and i seriously thought it was the service and not the hardware or network i was on, i wouldn't still be paying $99 a year for it either.

add to that there are a lot more services and features packed into your $99 a year. if all your using it for is the Me.com website, then you are stupid, and should've just gone with gmail in the first place.

[Electrolytic]

Yeah I have no problems with windows 7 or xp but vista is just pure failure garbage. Win7 reminds me of it which it's pretty much vista but with a bit of a performance boost and some tweaks but that's all I see. Just a big update. I hope snow leopard is what they say it does actually does it.

Have to agree with some of you on Vista. Vista had some legacy issues at the start & was a bit bloated. I think MS never got past the perception in the consumers mind that Vista sucks...Most of the issues were people trying to run Vista on older hardware...Some of that MS fault because they loosened the requirements too much & some is just stupid people trying to run a modern OS on old hardware...

[sellitom]

Ha ha, you're not helping your case here. What did we own before a Mac? Well, for me of course a Windows PC. What do I own now? A Mac. Your point?? What's significant is what I own now, not what I owned before. :D Also, I can assure you there are a lot of people here who've never owned anything other than a Mac.

I guess you missed what else I have said. I am not making a case for MS or Apple....

"Pretty much a mac" ...?

I am not 75; I am 23 and I have owned an HP desktop, still own a Dell laptop and also have a MBP and an iMac. My point is that it is amusing to sit here and read comments people make about a STORE.

[sellitom]

Ha ha, you're not helping your case here. What did we own before a Mac? Well, for me of course a Windows PC. What do I own now? A Mac. Your point?? What's significant is what I own now, not what I owned before. :D Also, I can assure you there are a lot of people here who've never owned anything other than a Mac.

And I apologize. I wasn't trying to create a stir amongst the :apple:fanboy population, as I obviously have.

[Peace]

Let's see how this works. You walk into the Microsoft store to look at a bunch of gear that Microsoft doesn't make, play with a PC to decide what you want, then get in your car to drive to the outskirts of town to Best Buy to purchase one. Or you go 3 stores down to the Apple Store and get instant gratification. Hmmmm... tough choice.

Is it just me, or does this echo the out-of-the-way Gateway stores where you could look but not buy?


Here's how I see it working. and I'm questioning whether or not it "might" break some FTC anti-competative laws.

Microsoft. Under pressure from Dell and HP will sell pre-configured Dell and HP laptops and desktops. It's obvious. MS has been advertising their computers in commercials for a while now.

Some posters have it right though. There is going to be a very long line at that "Guru Bar" from customers.

And Two stores opening ? Not exactly going up against Apple by opening 2 stores at a time.

While I do like Windows 7 I can only see this concept as an epic failure on the part of MS.

[sascha h-k]

what they are gonna sale there ?

one client in the m$ shop:

what are you selling ?

vista: crap
win7: better crap and still only a small bad copy of osX.
else: zune ? ha ha ha ha ...

the client will ask the salesman: what else ?!

he responds: go vis a vis to the apple-store !

[nkawtg72]

Its going to have a few bar's like the Apple store does, however Microsofts will be:

Virus Removal Bar
Malware Removal Bar
Defragmentation Bar
Windows Customer Frustration Counceling Bar
The "Let us call the tech support guys in India for you" Bar
Red Ring of Death XBox 360 Repair Bar
The "Why Windows 7 costs so much" Bar
The Bar Bar, to get drunk at after visiting the other Bar's


don't forget the "uninstall and go back to XP Bar"

[cohibadad]

I wonder if that whacky duo Seinfeld and Gates or even Balmer will be at the openings. I'd pay a dollar to see Bill do the robot or hear Balmer scream "I AM A PC" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMy0PFr8no). Maybe they'll pay people to come to their stores.

[sellitom]

don't forget the "uninstall and go back to XP Bar"

Average wait time = 3 hours.

[nkawtg72]

I'm looking forward to these microsoft stores - it will encourage Apple to only improve their stores more.. which are already very good.

As they say, competition is good.



You can be sure that Apple wouldn't be saying "its not about marketshare" if they had 90% of the PC market... Strangely, when it comes to those Apple products that have a high market share - it becomes 'important'...


actually, you've got that all wrong. apple and its fanboys didn't create the marketshare discussion, MS fanboys did, many many years ago i might add.

i'd like to point out that if market share were important to "us" then we wouldn't have bought a mac in the first place now would we?! the only reason why marketshare may get thrown back at "you" at times, is to point out the fact that apple's business model HAS been working in many arenas.

i for one could care less how many other people buy the same products as i do. so take your marketshare discussions elsewhere and share them with someone who cares.

[mac*jedi*g]

Microsoft huh? Are they selling equipment too? Hmmm, lets see how enthusiastic venture this will be after 6 month of operation. The greeters at the door will be like, "Hi Welcome to the MS Store. Please do not talk to me, but instead, visit our interactive table ---- for which you can poop on! Thank you, buh-bye!"

[nkawtg72]

repeat after me, its all about market share its all about market share its all about market share.

Who doesn't strive for market share? Seriously? You think apple is ok with their market share and position in their space? naive

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

[Gasu E.]

Competitors--> Good

Wannabees--> Sad

[nkawtg72]

Yeah because Sony never had stores before Apple.

Oh yeah, and who copied who by moving from PPC to Intel to use x86 ISA?

Anyone?


once again, id like to point out that us FANBOYS are only pointing out exactly what MS is publicly acknowledging that they are doing. they have said they are going after Apple. BUT, rather than being original in their approach, they are COPYING apple's.

at the same time, i cant say i blame them for wanting to copy apple. apple's approach has worked fantastic for them.

[miketcool]

i'm not buying it. if i were having those problems, and i seriously thought it was the service and not the hardware or network i was on, i wouldn't still be paying $99 a year for it either.

add to that there are a lot more services and features packed into your $99 a year. if all your using it for is the Me.com website, then you are stupid, and should've just gone with gmail in the first place.

I paid $69, the discount price. Because of the lovely economy and the fact that my portfolio/CV/résumé had gone out using my mac account to hundreds of firms, and I wasn't willing to sacrifice the possibility of getting a job over $69. Make no mistake though, I won't be buying MobileME again. This is a category Apple is lacking on innovation wise.

[nkawtg72]

and i think you both agree neither you nor I have any viability into their strategic growth plan or where they are taking their future revenues. Who knows what it takes to upgrade their market share, but its not like mircosoft is not making any revenue either.

of course we know what direction they are going, have you ever heard of a shareholders conference?

also, that last sentence, "Ms is not making any revenue either." Either is a comparison, to whom are you comparing? are you suggesting Apple is NOT making any revenue? god i hope you aren't. if you are, you need to get out a little more.

[xIGmanIx]

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

Thanks for the business lesson Donald right? Thanks, i didn't realize everyone on macrumors had a MBA and were part of fortune 500 companies. Neither of them have anything to do with the OP, and the point is, you can talk about Apple's revenue all you want, at the end of the day the OS breakdown is about 90% windows. Apple also makes a significant margin on their hardware sales (inflated?). Last time i checked, Microsoft makes money too:D

Edit: Added cap's and bold because that must REALLY MEAN I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

of course we know what direction they are going, have you ever heard of a shareholders conference?

also, that last sentence, "Ms is not making any revenue either." Either is a comparison, to whom are you comparing? are you suggesting Apple is NOT making any revenue? god i hope you aren't. if you are, you need to get out a little more.

Do you know what a strategic growth plan is? Did apple speak to their future product line? New space that they were going to compete in? reduction in work force or costs in manufacturing? Future partnerships they were entering into or such? To my knowledge, they wouldn't brief any of that during a shareholders call

[Eidorian]

Everyday is repost day.

[uberamd]

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

QFE. How right you are, thats what I have been trying to say for so long.

[nkawtg72]

Surface.

It may not be aimed at the consumer ( yet ), but its making its way into businesses, and tends to go down very well.

Surface really is a good piece of technology. If Apple had made this,everyone on this forum would be raving about it - but since its made by microsoft...


hate to break it to you, but the surface is not any kind of fancy technology. functional, useful, maybe so but not outside of business in my opinion.

i can already do on a flat surface with a projector and a Wii remote or two, what the Surface does. "Object Tracking Imagery". the Surface tables are huge because they have a projector and multiple cameras mounted from below.

this would be okay for parlor tricks, but as it stands, not good for integrating into the home kitchen or family room.

again, im not saying it is useless. just not as cutting edge as one might think.

[xIGmanIx]

of course we know what direction they are going, have you ever heard of a shareholders conference?

also, that last sentence, "Ms is not making any revenue either." Either is a comparison, to whom are you comparing? are you suggesting Apple is NOT making any revenue? god i hope you aren't. if you are, you need to get out a little more.

actually i said its not like mircosoft isn't making any money. Where did i mention that apple is not making any revenue? I am not sure where i said anything about apple not making money, so i would appreciate if you would not speak on my behalf.

[Electrolytic]

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

That's good for Apple & I don't think it's anywhere near 75%, but how is that good for you? You pay way more for the same pc with a diff os...

[nkawtg72]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

well, if you're asking what OS i used before a mac, i never have used Windows in my home. i've worked in IT and business with Windows and Mac. so i'm speaking from personal experience, Windows is the plague (in my opinion).

[*LTD*]

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

QFT.

Except that, interestingly enough, Apple's market isn't that small. We're talking around 50-70 million Mac users. Relative Windows' user base, it's small, but really, we're probably looking at the Premium end of the market with these numbers, where Apple wants to be.

Apple refuses to sell at the bottom-end. Which is a good thing.

[a52s]

All those blue panels and screens on that image.... I'm just waiting for someone to Photoshop in a BSOD.

Is this a sign that Microsoft is really concerned about Apple? When you've got 95% of the market share, on a platform that pretty much locks you into buying more products from the same company, is it really necessary to spend millions of dollars on stores to promote yourself? Doesn't virtually every household already own some sort of Microsoft product? It sounds to me like they're desperate to keep themselves in the public spotlight.

My thoughts exactly.

[Eidorian]

QFT.

Except that, interestingly enough, Apple's market isn't that small. We're talking around 50-70 million Mac users. Relative Windows' user base, it's small, but really, we're probably looking at the Premium end of the market with these numbers, where Apple wants to be.

Apple refuses to sell at the bottom-end. Which is a good thing.So how is Apple's profit going to help me?

[mullman]

It has everything to do with worry. Have you seen the numbers on college campuses? Sure baby boomers like their PCs, but Gen X and Yers are choosing Macs at eery opportunity. The decisions made in college are going to be lifelong lifestyle choices and MS doesn't find a way to curb it, the next generation is going to raise their kids on Mac. The only way MS stays in this is corporate IT, but those jobs are getting handed down too and eventually someone is going to say in a meeting, "We spend so much money on IT and computer repair, what would the long term savings be to go Mac?"


So very true.
I was the Apple Student Rep at my university in the early 90s and I was a switcher.
I came to campus with my PC and once I went Mac...well you know what they say.

I still keep in touch with many of my friends who were Mac users and/or switchers during their college years.
ALL still use Apple products and most are complete Apple zealots who have converted family, friends, and run their small businesses with Apple gear.

Apple has come a LONG way in the past 15-20 years, heck I remember the 25 Million Mac party at the Roxxy (MacWorld Boston 1995).
They have a huge momentum going and in another 10 years the playing field could look very different.
IMHO Microsoft knows this...

[Electrolytic]

Originally Posted by notjustjay View Post
All those blue panels and screens on that image.... I'm just waiting for someone to Photoshop in a BSOD.

Is this a sign that Microsoft is really concerned about Apple? When you've got 95% of the market share, on a platform that pretty much locks you into buying more products from the same company, is it really necessary to spend millions of dollars on stores to promote yourself? Doesn't virtually every household already own some sort of Microsoft product? It sounds to me like they're desperate to keep themselves in the public spotlight.

Why not keep yourself in the spotlight, that's not a bad thing... Also you would be stupid not to be concerned about your competitor...

[johncarync]

I predict the lines at the Microsoft Guru Bar will be SHORT. The gurus will be trained to quickly respond to users in this fashion:

"I'm sorry...that appears to be a hardware issue. You'll need to contact [HP/Dell/Acer/Toshiba/etc.] about that."

:p

[mudmanmike]

How lame.

They will not sell computers, or peripherals. They will only sell Zunes, Xbox, Microsoft software and some 3rd party software. Why not go to Walmart? They have the same stuff. Microsoft is clueless! They do not understand what drives the Apple Stores. Apple users are excited to go and see the new products and talk to the knowledgeable store employees about the details. We know that we can go there to buy a new machine and leave with everything perfect, because they open the box, set-up and configure the machine, load all our software and transfer all the files. Then they pack it all up and you go home with a perfect box. Not everyone needs or wants this service (I dont), but it creates an atmosphere in the store that leads to a positive experience.

The excitement of seeing and touching the new products creates an energy that is contagious to anyone who goes to the store.

How will Microsoft recreate that energy by displaying 3 year old Xbox machines and Zunes? It will just feel like an overpriced Best Buy with a really bad selection.

They just dont get it.

[uberamd]

All those blue panels and screens on that image.... I'm just waiting for someone to Photoshop in a BSOD.


My gas station is plagued by BSOD. Any any point during the day there are at least 2 screens like that, at night its usuall 4-5. Sorry for the poor quality pic, iPhone 2G quite a while back.

http://www.blogme.us/steve/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/gas_station.png (http://steve.blogme.us/2007/11/24/gas-station-bsod-windows-0-other-os-1/)

[nkawtg72]

Thanks for the business lesson Donald right? Thanks, i didn't realize everyone on macrumors had a MBA and were part of fortune 500 companies. Neither of them have anything to do with the OP, and the point is, you can talk about Apple's revenue all you want, at the end of the day the OS breakdown is about 90% windows. Apple also makes a significant margin on their hardware sales (inflated?). Last time i checked, Microsoft makes money too:D

Edit: Added cap's and bold because that must REALLY MEAN I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

Do you know what a strategic growth plan is? Did apple speak to their future product line? New space that they were going to compete in? reduction in work force or costs in manufacturing? Future partnerships they were entering into or such? To my knowledge, they wouldn't brief any of that during a shareholders call

"inflated" ?!?!?! what does that have to do with anything. so now you're offended that they are able to pull large margins on their products, and as such those margins don't count because you feel they should be lower? good one. plus i never said MS didn't make money. i'm on macrumors website because i have an interest in Mac. ive got better things to do than go to PC oriented websites and criticize PC/MS fanboys about their preference in computers, etc. you came to "my" neighborhood, so expect to get my opinion.

That's good for Apple & I don't think it's anywhere near 75%, but how is that good for you? You pay way more for the same pc with a diff os...

first, i didnt say apple was 75%, i said if I had a widget making XX% of the revenue, then id be less concerned with market share. it's good for me if i own their stock now isnt it? why do you care what im willing to pay for my computer? im not buying just an OS. i put value to way more than that when i choose a computer. but once again, why do you care? if you want to buy a computer for $300, go buy it. tell me how that works out for you too.

[nkawtg72]

So how is Apple's profit going to help me?

if you owned their stock, you would know the answer to that question now wouldn't you?

[*LTD*]

My gas station is plagued by BSOD. Any any point during the day there are at least 2 screens like that, at night its usuall 4-5. Sorry for the poor quality pic, iPhone 2G quite a while back.

http://www.blogme.us/steve/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/gas_station.png (http://steve.blogme.us/2007/11/24/gas-station-bsod-windows-0-other-os-1/)

Priceless.

[jav6454]

A great way for MS to show how much fail they have and how Apple will beat the living crap out of those Stores.... no I'm not being sarcastic.

MS stores won't help, since MS is not a small OS player like Apple. They don't make their computers. All they can sell to you is Office, Zune and XBox. Taking aside the good accessories they make. MS has nothing to show in the computer sales, because quite frankly, BestBuy, Walmart and every electronic store out there already sells Windows and MS products.

So... my $0.02

[BongoBanger]

There was nowhere in my post that said Apple was the first to have an innovative store. The Sony Style stores were in fact pretty in cool IMO. They had a very futuristic look. This is not the issue, Microsoft can do whatever they want but the blatent copying needs to stop. Gimme a break. A Guru Bar???

And how is Apple copying anyone by changing the CPU in their computers? They were first using the Motorola chips, then to PowerPC, now to Intel. I had no idea Windows PC's owned the rights to Intel processors. :rolleyes:

The point is that Apple and MS copy each other and other companies. Everybody does it. If you think that MS are considerably more guilty of copying than Apple then you need a reality check.

[Axl Rose]

ill probably apply at the mission viejo one, i live pretty close

[Electrolytic]

How lame.

They will not sell computers, or peripherals. They will only sell Zunes, Xbox, Microsoft software and some 3rd party software. Why not go to Walmart? They have the same stuff. Microsoft is clueless! They do not understand what drives the Apple Stores. Apple users are excited to go and see the new products and talk to the knowledgeable store employees about the details. We know that we can go there to buy a new machine and leave with everything perfect, because they open the box, set-up and configure the machine, load all our software and transfer all the files. Then they pack it all up and you go home with a perfect box. Not everyone needs or wants this service (I dont), but it creates an atmosphere in the store that leads to a positive experience.

The excitement of seeing and touching the new products creates an energy that is contagious to anyone who goes to the store.

How will Microsoft recreate that energy by displaying 3 year old Xbox machines and Zunes? It will just feel like an overpriced Best Buy with a really bad selection.

They just dont get it.

From the CNET article: (Stocks said that Microsoft heard from customers that they wanted a simpler way to buy PCs.

"Our customers have told us three things--they want a more simplified buying option for PCs and devices, great technology, and competitive prices and a knowledgeable staff."

As for products, Stocks said there will be products "in the areas of laptops, mobility gaming, and software." That will include Microsoft software and hardware, of course, as well as brand-name PCs and software from other companies. ) So it sounds like they will sale computers...

[BongoBanger]

go back to school and learn some economics and business theory. it ISN'T about market share. it's about MARGINS!!!!!!!!

if i could sell my widget to only 1% of the market, but "own" 75% of the revenue in that market, then i'm the one laughing all the way to the bank.

read up on Apple's recent quarterly numbers and you'll see that's exactly what theyre doing.

Sure unless your market changes and you're so overfocused on one segment that you're screwed. Mass market share is important and is a fundamental economic principle. Apple found this out to their cost in the late 80's and early 90's.

[uberamd]

From the CNET article: (Stocks said that Microsoft heard from customers that they wanted a simpler way to buy PCs.

"Our customers have told us three things--they want a more simplified buying option for PCs and devices, great technology, and competitive prices and a knowledgeable staff."


Someone can't count.

[nagromme]

I think this is great!

I'll be able to play with Surface (an irrelevant product but a very cool toy) and then hop next door to Apple to buy REAL multitouch stuff :)

[nkawtg72]

i just heard from a reliable source that MS will also have an apparel section!!!

in addition to logo'd hats, jackets, gloves, and jewelry, they will also stock a new line called A$$wear. which stands for Ad-wear, Spy-wear, Spam-wear

[nkawtg72]

Sure unless your market changes and you're so overfocused on one segment that you're screwed. Mass market share is important and is a fundamental economic principle. Apple found this out to their cost in the late 80's and early 90's.

hate to break it to you but that isn't completely accurate. although market share is important, it is not the end all, be all, marker to a successful company that many try and suggest on these forums.

there is also something called the Law of Diminishing Returns. it is possible to become to big to remain sustainable.

in business a company is strictly focussed on sustainability and profitability. neither of which REQUIRE mass market share. if that were the case you'd not have the Apple computers, or porsche, or rolex, or ferrari, etc etc.

a business can focus on a niche in a market, have small market share, and still be sustainable and profitable.

[*LTD*]

repeat after me, its all about market share its all about market share its all about market share.

Who doesn't strive for market share? Seriously? You think apple is ok with their market share and position in their space? naive

Apple functions at the Premium end of the market. It isn't one big market. There are levels to it. There are consumers in particular income brackets that are locked out of Apple's demographic. This is one of the defining characteristics of any Premium product.

There are between 50-70 million Mac users. The Mac is understood as, and marketed as, a Premium product. Fewer units sold, but at much higher margins. Apple has stated quite clearly that they refuse to operate at the low-end. This means they provide a vastly different (and very attractive and coveted) user experience that people (who are able to) are willing to pay more for. Apple would not cheapen or muddy its brand image by competing on the same level with the like of Dell, for example. Either you differentiate yourself via some clear, desirable, distinguishing features, or you compete on price like the rest of the pack.

This is what has Microsoft acting so defensive: Windows still has overwhelming unit sale market share, but it is now almost entirely at the low end of the market. There are substantial implications to Microsoft under these circumstances. Just one of the reasons they are opening these Stores. MS is trying very hard to shed its bargain-bin image. A bit late for that, though.

"Market Share" is very often misunderstood. With a fraction of Microsoft's market share, Apple is not only thriving, but it also is in a position as:

1) The industry innovator
2) The most powerful brand in the industry today
3) Producer of the most coveted notebooks and devices in the industry today
4) The one to follow. Apple does everyone else's R&D for them (apparently.)

So when you discuss "market share", you need to determine exactly which end of the market you're talking about. The lion's share of what part of the market? The Premium end of the market pyramid is near or at the top. It's much more narrow, but the consumer approaches tech (and other products) from an entirely different perspective (often not on price), with difference epxectations that Apple happens to cater to. Ideally, you WANT to rule the Premium end. It's these customers that build your brand, that make it desirable, and that will pay top dollar for what you provide.

[Electrolytic]

first, i didnt say apple was 75%, i said if I had a widget making XX% of the revenue, then id be less concerned with market share. it's good for me if i own their stock now isnt it? why do you care what im willing to pay for my computer? im not buying just an OS. i put value to way more than that when i choose a computer. but once again, why do you care? if you want to buy a computer for $300, go buy it. tell me how that works out for you too.

Sorry I thought you were making a example that Apple makes 75% of the revenue the market.

Yes its good for you if you own Apples stock & they make money...

As for if I care what your willing to pay for I really don't, its your right to pay & use whatever you want..but as a rule lower prices are better for the consumer, it leave money to buy others stuff they don't need...

[uberamd]

Apple functions at the Premium end of the market. It isn't one big market. There are levels to it. There are consumers in particular income brackets that are locked out of Apple's demographic. This is one of the defining characteristics of any Premium product.

There are between 50-70 million Mac users. The Mac is understood as, and marketed as, a Premium product. Fewer units sold, but at much higher margins. Apple has stated quite clearly that they refuse to operate at the low-end. This means they provide a vastly different (and very attractive and coveted) user experience that people (who are able to) are willing to pay more for. Apple would not cheapen or muddy its brand image by competing on the same level with the like of Dell, for example. Either you differentiate yourself via some clear, desirable, distinguishing features, or you compete on price like the rest of the pack.

This is what has Microsoft acting so defensive: Windows still has overwhelming unit sale market share, but it is now almost entirely at the low end of the market. There are substantial implications to Microsoft under these circumstances. Just one of the reasons they are opening these Stores. MS is trying very hard to shed its bargain-bin image. A bit late for that, though.

"Market Share" is very often misunderstood. With a fraction of Microsoft's market share, Apple is not only thriving, but it also is in a position as:

1) The industry innovator
2) The most powerful brand in the industry today
3) Producer of the most coveted notebooks and devices in the industry today
4) The one to follow. Apple does everyone else's R&D for them (apparently.)

So when you discuss "market share", you need to determine exactly which end of the market you're talking about. The Preimum end of the market pyramid is near or at the top. It's much more narrow, but the consumer approaches tech from an entirely different perspective, with difference epxectations that Apple happens to cater to. Ideally, you WANT to rule the Premium end. It's these customers that build your brand, that make it desirable, and that will pay top dollar for what you provide.

Very well put. These netbooks are also hurting PC companies in a sense because people see that they can get a 'laptop' (as average consumers don't know the term netbook) for $300, so they demand these low cost systems. Since Apple is premium, they can charge higher costs for the experience and still have enough customers to remain profitable.

I am curious to see what happens to the mid-range market as high end and low end become more and more populated.

[swb1192]

NOOO NOT scottsdale arizona!!!!! Stay away Microsoft!! The brand new Apple Store here is incredible, it doesn't need any garbage near it!!

[nkawtg72]

Sorry I thought you were making a example that Apple makes 75% of the revenue the market.

Yes its good for you if you own Apples stock & they make money...

As for if I care what your willing to pay for I really don't, its your right to pay & use whatever you want..but as a rule lower prices are better for the consumer, it leave money to buy others stuff they don't need...

no problem. easy to misread posts when in a hurry. i do it all the time :)
can't say i completely agree with the lower prices are better for the consumer though. i do like the idea of buying more things i dont need though!!!

[Eidorian]

Very well put. These netbooks are also hurting PC companies in a sense because people see that they can get a 'laptop' (as average consumers don't know the term netbook) for $300, so they demand these low cost systems. Since Apple is premium, they can charge higher costs for the experience and still have enough customers to remain profitable.

I am curious to see what happens to the mid-range market as high end and low end become more and more populated.The netbook segments opens up a just good enough market to get web browsing and basic office functions done. Anyone that has higher expections from a $299 netbook is very misguided.

The $500 to $1,000 range is where you're going to find most sales. That's including a display as well for a desktop.

[BongoBanger]

hate to break it to you but that isn't completely accurate. although market share is important, it is not the end all, be all, marker to a successful company that many try and suggest on these forums.

Nope, but saying that margins are all important is equally wrong.

there is also something called the Law of Diminishing Returns. it is possible to become to big to remain sustainable.

in business a company is strictly focussed on sustainability and profitability. neither of which REQUIRE mass market share. if that were the case you'd not have the Apple computers, or porsche, or rolex, or ferrari, etc etc.

Porsche are being bought out by VW. Fiat own Ferrari. Rolex are the largest manufacturer of luxury watches. Apple nearly died by focusing on one market.

a business can focus on a niche in a market, have small market share, and still be sustainable and profitable.

Until the market disappears unless it can diversify which, in fairness to Apple, they did. That's why they're still here.

We can carry on a discussion about economics if you want. It's been a while since I did my undergraduate degree but what the hell? :)

[nkawtg72]

i direct many of you to this post.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/23/apple-claims-91-of-1000-pc-market-revenue-in-june/

it speaks specifically of Apple's dominance in a particular niche of the market. however it is not apple's market share, but their share of the revenue in that market that makes them dominant.

as ive been trying to say Market Share is not all it appears.

theoretically speaking, if i were a company, id be happy with 1% market share if i was turning high margins, pulling high shares of the markets revenue, and i were overwhelming sustainable and profitable.

it may not be the best or only way to do business, but it's working for apple these days.

but back on topic, MS is obviously looking for some change and isn't happy with their current position or prospects if they find it necessary to go head to head with apple as they said they are doing now.

[Electrolytic]

Someone can't count.

I'm sure it was just a typo... He was probably forced to go to a government school...

[nkawtg72]

Nope, but saying that margins are all important is equally wrong.



Porsche are being bought out by VW. Fiat own Ferrari. Rolex are the largest manufacturer of luxury watches. Apple nearly died by focusing on one market.



Until the market disappears unless it can diversify which, in fairness to Apple, they did. That's why they're still here.

We can carry on a discussion about economics if you want. It's been a while since I did my undergraduate degree but what the hell? :)

that's quite alright. i won't need any edumakating today. you've already acknowledge and agreed with my position and the point i was making, with the first sentence you wrote in your post above, minus the part where you said margins are the all important thing. i have merely been responding to the Market Share zealots that seem to forget economics or never learned it. there are many more variables in the soup than just that one.

[iPhoneNYC]

Monkey see, Monkey do.

[adammull]

Will I be able to just stare at a Windows 7 box? I mean they don't make any actual computers per se. And whose computers do they use to show Windows? Dell? HP? Sony? I would think whomever doesn't get picked will be miffed.

I have also been dying to go to a store and see what Office is up to. Can I try it out? I'll bring an Excel 98 file and do some calculations.

I can already imagine what it will look like by day 3: half the computers showing blue screens or error messages that look like errors I encountered using DOS, some brown Zunes, 1 of the 2 Xbox 360s with red rings of death, and some "gurus" with wrinkly blue MFST polos trying hard to be cool about not being cool. Because after all, Apple is cool. So they'll be cool by playing it not cool. Right?!?!

[phobic99]

The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. B

Not sure about quality entertainment, but it's entertainment indeed. A lot of people posting in this thread are hilariously uninformed. Just need a few more peeps to throw out some "M$" and "MicroShaft" and it should be a typical MS-bashing Apple love fest in here as usual. :D

*grabs popcorn*

[VenusianSky]

Just another example of Microsoft having more money than what they know to do with it.

As for the "MS ripping off Apple" comments... I recall the Gateway Computer stores. They were just as lame of a place to hang out as the Apple stores, but Gateway did it many years before. I believe Dell had stores as well.

[Stately]

A Microsoft retail store? Lol ummm . . ok. :confused:

[uberamd]

Just another example of Microsoft having more money than what they know to do with it.


If thats true, why did they cut 5,000 jobs in 2009? 2,500 of which were American workers.

"As we move forward, we will continue to closely monitor the impact of the economic downturn on the company and if necessary, take further actions on our cost structure including additional job eliminations." "While job eliminations are always difficult, we are taking these necessary actions in response to the global economic downturn." - Ballmer

[BVGuitarPlayer]

I love Macs, have used them nearly exclusively since my first Performa 6200, then I had a Tangerine iBook, G4 iBook, Power Mac G5, MacBook Pro, MacBook Pro, and a new 17" Unibody MacBook Pro. Mac Owner since 7.5.

I have had tons of iPods and iPhones.

I have worked at Apple Retail as a Specialist, my last day is Friday.

I think this is hilarious, because quite frankly, being a Mac Specialist is one of the lousiest, most underpaying piece of **** jobs out there. I'd work for M$ just to spite Apple for how poorly they treat their employees AND GET AWAY WITH IT because most of them are too brainwashed to do anything about it.

EDIT, to the poster above me, I can't tell you how many kernel panics I've seen on demo models at the Apple store.

[*LTD*]

I love Macs, have used them nearly exclusively since my first Performa 6200, then I had a Tangerine iBook, G4 iBook, Power Mac G5, MacBook Pro, MacBook Pro, and a new 17" Unibody MacBook Pro. Mac Owner since 7.5.

I have had tons of iPods and iPhones.

I have worked at Apple Retail as a Specialist, my last day is Friday.

I think this is hilarious, because quite frankly, being a Mac Specialist is one of the lousiest, most underpaying piece of **** jobs out there. I'd work for M$ just to spite Apple for how poorly they treat their employees AND GET AWAY WITH IT because most of them are too brainwashed to do anything about it.

EDIT, to the poster above me, I can't tell you how many kernel panics I've seen on demo models at the Apple store.

On the internets, we can be anyone we want to be.

[BVGuitarPlayer]

On the internets, we can be anyone we want to be.

You're right, but that doesn't change the fact that I hate my job. I really work for Apple, and I have to go around every single time I work there telling people not to believe rumor sites like this one. It's actually pretty ironic.

Apparently you don't believe that Apple employees could ever possibly be on this website.

[*LTD*]

You're right, but that doesn't change the fact that I hate my job. I really work for Apple, and I have to go around every single time I work there telling people not to believe rumor sites like this one. It's actually pretty ironic.

Apparently you don't believe that Apple employees could ever possibly be on this website.

Sorry you hate your job. I don't really know how else to respond to something that's anecdotal.

I hope you find something better.

[BVGuitarPlayer]

Sorry you hate your job. I don't really know how else to respond to something that's anecdotal.

I hope you find something better.

Go look up the word anecdotal.
Feel free to call me at that store and ask me why I hate it.
I'll be there today.

[CQd44]

First thing: every time I read about horrible windows experiences I feel left out. The only BSODs I have now are my own fault for overclocking in the summer heat. Sometimes I wonder what people do to their PCs.

Second: The fanboyism is delicious. Most of the people commenting about Windows 7 make me think they didn't play with it for more than five minutes. There are more changes than a speed boost FYI. A quick example: You can unmount USB flash drives with two clicks from the system toolbar instead of the 4-5 that it used to be in Vista.

I have a preference for PCs mostly because of how expandable they are. Just a few days ago I needed an e-sata port. So what did I do? I went and bought an e-sata PCI card, installed it, and used it to transfer files from a hard drive. But it doesn't mean I would never use a Mac. They're nice machines, I'm just not willing to spend that much money on a laptop. Of course, if someone came up to me and just handed a 15'' MBP to me and ran away, I'd keep it (after making sure it wasn't stolen), do some bootcamp stuff to install a windows OS I need, and be off on my merry way.

TL;DR fanboyism is silly and you should feel bad.

[likemyorbs]

I used to live in mission viejo! Beautiful place

[uberamd]

Go look up the word anecdotal.
Feel free to call me at that store and ask me why I hate it.
I'll be there today.

For every satisfied employee, there is one that hates his/her job. Even at places like Google. Thats life, everyone is unique and you cant please everyone. As soon as you leave, there are 50 people ready to take your spot.

And anecdotal means based on personal accounts, which your statement was.

[uberamd]

First thing: every time I read about horrible windows experiences I feel left out. The only BSODs I have now are my own fault for overclocking in the summer heat. Sometimes I wonder what people do to their PCs.

Second: The fanboyism is delicious. Most of the people commenting about Windows 7 make me think they didn't play with it for more than five minutes. There are more changes than a speed boost FYI. A quick example: You can unmount USB flash drives with two clicks from the system toolbar instead of the 4-5 that it used to be in Vista.

I have a preference for PCs mostly because of how expandable they are. Just a few days ago I needed an e-sata port. So what did I do? I went and bought an e-sata PCI card, installed it, and used it to transfer files from a hard drive. But it doesn't mean I would never use a Mac. They're nice machines, I'm just not willing to spend that much money on a laptop. Of course, if someone came up to me and just handed a 15'' MBP to me and ran away, I'd keep it (after making sure it wasn't stolen), do some bootcamp stuff to install a windows OS I need, and be off on my merry way.

TL;DR fanboyism is silly and you should feel bad.

You haven't had Windows issues? Lucky you. Look at the pic I posted of the BSOD at my gas station for god sakes. I work doing PC repairs for my college, so come spend a day at work with me and I will show you more Windows issues than you ever thought possible.

[BVGuitarPlayer]

And anecdotal means based on personal accounts, which your statement was.

Keep in mind, he assumed that I made up the fact that I work there.

[G58]

The market clearly loves this one!

On the day M$ announce the location of their first two stores AND their deal with Yahoo, their stock price 'jumped' a full 19 cents!

I'm reminded of those famous scenes in Titanic:

ROSE

"Mr. Andrews, I did the sum in my head, and with the number of lifeboats times the capacity you mentioned... forgive me, but it seems that there are not enough for everyone aboard."

Scene 2010
CUT TO: THE DESOLATE WASTES OF A COMPANY FLOUNDERING IN A DIMINISHED MARKET

ROSE

"I won't let go. I promise."

[SeattleMoose]

I like to use my $$$ to reward innovation, not imitation.:cool:

[iStudentUK]

Wow- The fan-boys are out in force today! Its both funny and sad.

Yes this is an obvious copy of an Apple concept, and we should be poking fun at MS and this lack of innovation, but to say that MS are panicking about Apple is ridiculous!

MS has a much greater income, much greater market share and even a much greater operating income per employee than Apple. Now I am not a fan of MS (I love my MacBook, so much better than my old Vista PC!) but lets be realistic people- MS is a hugely successful company that is not going away any time soon.

[xIGmanIx]

Apple functions at the Premium end of the market. It isn't one big market. There are levels to it. There are consumers in particular income brackets that are locked out of Apple's demographic. This is one of the defining characteristics of any Premium product.

There are between 50-70 million Mac users. The Mac is understood as, and marketed as, a Premium product. Fewer units sold, but at much higher margins. Apple has stated quite clearly that they refuse to operate at the low-end. This means they provide a vastly different (and very attractive and coveted) user experience that people (who are able to) are willing to pay more for. Apple would not cheapen or muddy its brand image by competing on the same level with the like of Dell, for example. Either you differentiate yourself via some clear, desirable, distinguishing features, or you compete on price like the rest of the pack.

This is what has Microsoft acting so defensive: Windows still has overwhelming unit sale market share, but it is now almost entirely at the low end of the market. There are substantial implications to Microsoft under these circumstances. Just one of the reasons they are opening these Stores. MS is trying very hard to shed its bargain-bin image. A bit late for that, though.

"Market Share" is very often misunderstood. With a fraction of Microsoft's market share, Apple is not only thriving, but it also is in a position as:

1) The industry innovator
2) The most powerful brand in the industry today
3) Producer of the most coveted notebooks and devices in the industry today
4) The one to follow. Apple does everyone else's R&D for them (apparently.)

So when you discuss "market share", you need to determine exactly which end of the market you're talking about. The lion's share of what part of the market? The Premium end of the market pyramid is near or at the top. It's much more narrow, but the consumer approaches tech (and other products) from an entirely different perspective (often not on price), with difference epxectations that Apple happens to cater to. Ideally, you WANT to rule the Premium end. It's these customers that build your brand, that make it desirable, and that will pay top dollar for what you provide.

The hardware that apple chooses to use in their machines, is pretty much available to everyone minus their cases. Also, it doesn't matter what windows in installed on hardware wise, because mircrosoft doesn't make said hardware, however they do care if windows is installed. I dont know how that has anything to do with microsoft's OS market share. Plus, there are folks that run mircosoft OS's on their mac, so windows gets paid there assuming it was a purchased copy.

For its size and market share, Microsoft should be making a lot more money in comparison to Apple than they currently do.

See hardware

[uberamd]

Wow- The fan-boys are out in force today! Its both funny and sad.

Yes this is an obvious copy of an Apple concept, and we should be poking fun at MS and this lack of innovation, but to say that MS are panicking about Apple is ridiculous!

MS has a much greater income, much greater market share and even a much greater operating income per employee than Apple. Now I am not a fan of MS (I love my MacBook, so much better than my old Vista PC!) but lets be realistic people- MS is a hugely successful company that is not going away any time soon.

For its size and market share, Microsoft should be making a lot more money in comparison to Apple than they currently do.

[CQd44]

You haven't had Windows issues? Lucky you. Look at the pic I posted of the BSOD at my gas station for god sakes. I work doing PC repairs for my college, so come spend a day at work with me and I will show you more Windows issues than you ever thought possible.

I'm afraid to. I mean, I know Windows can be messed up far more easily than OS X (Click here for FREE virus scan!), but luckily I know what not to do. I haven't had Windows spontaneously combust on me, so to speak.

[diamond.g]

For its size and market share, Microsoft should be making a lot more money in comparison to Apple than they currently do.

Apple doesn't appear to do two things that Microsoft seems to do. Sell things at a loss (mainly the 360, but there are probably others) and take monetary chances (things like Project Origami, Project Natal, etc). I think it has to do with MS mainly making their money from something that can only change but so often before people stop buying it (OS, Productivity Suite). But I could be wrong...

[patliean1]

Unfortunately at the end of the day most of the corporate world will always rely on Windows for their software solutions even if Apple is upping their market share in home PC business.

So while I'm sure Microsoft should be worried the fact remains for the time being at least Windows is more universal. Especially in this economy, being more cost-effective becomes a higher priority than, say, the awesome user-friendly features on a Mac for IT professionals.

[*LTD*]

Go look up the word anecdotal.
Feel free to call me at that store and ask me why I hate it.
I'll be there today.

anecdotal |ˌanikˈdōtl|
adjective
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research : while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact | these claims were purely anecdotal.
• characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes : her book is anecdotal and chatty.
• [ attrib. ] (of a painting) depicting small narrative incidents : nineteenth-century French anecdotal paintings.

Ok, I looked it up. Now what?

Why would I want to call you? You've already told us why you hate it and that you think everyone in there is "brainwashed."

[Michaelgtrusa]

I hope for the best.





http://twitter.com/Mikeimac1

[hegor]

I do not see these stores failing, I seem them existing. MS has plenty of exposure and marketshare for its products. Apple needed the Apple Store to garner more exposure.

I think Gamestop should be more worried than Apple should. MS making full margin on Xbox and PC games will be a tempting fruit to pursue.

[iStudentUK]

For its size and market share, Microsoft should be making a lot more money in comparison to Apple than they currently do.

Microsoft- Op Income ~ $22.5 Billion, Employees ~ 90,000

Apple- Op Income ~ $6.2 Billion, Employees ~ 33,000


So MS has 2.7 x employees of Apple, yet 3.6 x Op Income.

(Please Note- Operating Income does not equal the final profit, it is closer to 'turnover' but more sophisticated)

[MacFly123]

I seriously HATE Microsoft sooo much lol! They rip on Apple for having no choice and boast how the PC world is ripe with choice and options, yet in their OWN STORES they will limit 3rd party hardware and options...WHY??? TO NOT CONFUSE CUSTOMERS AND MAKE THE EXPERIENCE "SEAMLESS". And this is all while COMPLETELY ripping off Apple's stores and Genius Bars and somehow claiming that doing that is NOT copying Apple but "INNOVATING FOR THE LONG TERM". LOL, seriously, can you be a bigger rip off artist and hypocrite?

Apple's retail stores are the most profitable of ANY retail stores period. And here Microsoft is going to open stores that do not center around purchasing lol.

I can't wait to watch you fail like you always do Microsoft! :rolleyes:

[Electrolytic]

I love Macs, have used them nearly exclusively since my first Performa 6200, then I had a Tangerine iBook, G4 iBook, Power Mac G5, MacBook Pro, MacBook Pro, and a new 17" Unibody MacBook Pro. Mac Owner since 7.5.

I have had tons of iPods and iPhones.

I have worked at Apple Retail as a Specialist, my last day is Friday.

I think this is hilarious, because quite frankly, being a Mac Specialist is one of the lousiest, most underpaying piece of **** jobs out there. I'd work for M$ just to spite Apple for how poorly they treat their employees AND GET AWAY WITH IT because most of them are too brainwashed to do anything about it.

EDIT, to the poster above me, I can't tell you how many kernel panics I've seen on demo models at the Apple store.

Thanks for the dose of reality.

[uberamd]

Microsoft- Op Income ~ $22.5 Billion, Employees ~ 90,000

Apple- Op Income ~ $6.2 Billion, Employees ~ 33,000


So MS has 2.7 x employees of Apple, yet 3.6 x Op Income.

(Please Note- Operating Income does not equal the final profit, it is closer to 'turnover' but more sophisticated)

3.6 x the operating income, and 9 x the market share. I would think with the massive majority of the market Microsoft has, they would pull in more money than they do. I am thinking if Apple had ~25% market share and Microsoft had 70% Apple would earn more.

[AZREOSpecialist]

Microsoft is becoming increasingly more irrelevant every day. Apple has been eating away at PC/Windows market share for quite some time, and open source efforts have also taken a bite out of MS dominance. Most PC people I know prefer to use Firefox or Safari compared with Explorer.

Wasn't the Zune supposed to kill the iPod/iPhone? Ha! The same thing will happen here. Anything MS touches turns to *****. I used to work there, I know. I'm proud to say that I got fired after I refused to attend any more useless meetings where nobody actually accomplished anything. I didn't fit their mold of a robot very well ... lol ...

MS is dying.

[GoodWatch]

What I find difficult about threads like these is, that whatever you say is even in the slightest favour of what seems to be the arch-enemy of just about everyone here, will be ridiculed or explained away. I know this is an Apple forum, sure, but some of the replies really makes me wonder if there's life beyond Apple.

To sum it up: MS never had an original idea of their own. If they come up with something new, they stole it from Apple. They make profit but nearly not enough when compared to..... Apple. They lock their customers into buying their products (now that I find a good one). In this thread alone their are more accounts of stop errors than I have had in my whole life (but this remark will be explained away or I have just been incredibly lucky).

This reply will label me as an MS fanboy but no explanation will suffice and is altogether unnecessary. And I'm too old to howl along with all the other wolves in the forest so I'll leave it at this. Peace to you all.

[Stella]

Just like Apple limit 3rd party software in their own AppStore?

.. and the difference is?

I seriously HATE Microsoft sooo much lol! They rip on Apple for having no choice and boast how the PC world is ripe with choice and options, yet in their OWN STORES they will limit 3rd party hardware and options...WHY??? TO NOT CONFUSE CUSTOMERS AND MAKE THE EXPERIENCE "SEAMLESS". And this is all while COMPLETELY ripping off Apple's stores and Genius Bars and somehow claiming that doing that is NOT copying Apple but "INNOVATING FOR THE LONG TERM". LOL, seriously, can you be a bigger rip off artist and hypocrite?

Apple's retail stores are the most profitable of ANY retail stores period. And here Microsoft is going to open stores that do not center around purchasing lol.

I can't wait to watch you fail like you always do Microsoft! :rolleyes:

Microsoft is becoming increasingly more irrelevant every day. Apple has been eating away at PC/Windows market share for quite some time, and open source efforts have also taken a bite out of MS dominance..

Reality: Apple have managed to reduce microsoft windows user base by a few percent world wide...

Yes, we all like Apple, but really...

[VenusianSky]

If thats true, why did they cut 5,000 jobs in 2009? 2,500 of which were American workers.

"As we move forward, we will continue to closely monitor the impact of the economic downturn on the company and if necessary, take further actions on our cost structure including additional job eliminations." "While job eliminations are always difficult, we are taking these necessary actions in response to the global economic downturn." - Ballmer

Being that they are building Microsoft stores says it all. Job cuts doesn't necessarily mean financial problems or shortages and certainly doesn't reflect how much "in-hand" cash the company has for stuff like marketing and R&D. Both Microsoft and Apple have plenty of cash for lame projects like this. Basically shows the government that they are spending money on the business development.

[GoodWatch]

I seriously HATE Microsoft sooo much lol! They rip on Apple for having no choice and boast how the PC world is ripe with choice and options, yet in their OWN STORES they will limit 3rd party hardware and options...WHY??? TO NOT CONFUSE CUSTOMERS AND MAKE THE EXPERIENCE "SEAMLESS". And this is all while COMPLETELY ripping off Apple's stores and Genius Bars and somehow claiming that doing that is NOT copying Apple but "INNOVATING FOR THE LONG TERM". LOL, seriously, can you be a bigger rip off artist and hypocrite?

Apple's retail stores are the most profitable of ANY retail stores period. And here Microsoft is going to open stores that do not center around purchasing lol.

I can't wait to watch you fail like you always do Microsoft! :rolleyes:

Well done lad, now you may almost kiss Steve's feet! And play with the big boys here :D

[dubels]

What is Microsoft going to sell besides their games and OS? Apple makes their own computers. Wouldn't it have been smarter to partner up with dell and make a joint retail store.

[BVGuitarPlayer]

Thanks for the dose of reality.

Plain and simple: anytime I hear another employee excitedly say "No, anyone can help you out, we're NOT on commission!" I have to ask myself, do these morons know what they're missing out on??? Really, are you proud that base pay is all you're going to get no matter how well you do?

Promotions are few and far in between. Easier to quit and get and reapply from what I've seen.

[Electrolytic]

Microsoft is becoming increasingly more irrelevant every day. Apple has been eating away at PC/Windows market share for quite some time, and open source efforts have also taken a bite out of MS dominance. Most PC people I know prefer to use Firefox or Safari compared with Explorer.

Wasn't the Zune supposed to kill the iPod/iPhone? Ha! The same thing will happen here. Anything MS touches turns to *****. I used to work there, I know. I'm proud to say that I got fired after I refused to attend any more useless meetings where nobody actually accomplished anything. I didn't fit their mold of a robot very well ... lol ...

MS is dying.

MS is dying, really?

They have the most popular OS (Windows),
The most popular office program (Office)
The 2nd most popular game console (xbox 360).
The most support in the business world.

I think they are doing fine...

[BongoBanger]

3.6 x the operating income, and 9 x the market share. I would think with the massive majority of the market Microsoft has, they would pull in more money than they do. I am thinking if Apple had ~25% market share and Microsoft had 70% Apple would earn more.

Bear in mind Apple are primarily a hardware company and Microsoft a software one. Although MS make a big margin on each software sale the gross margin expressed in dollars is much smaller.

I used to work there, I know. I'm proud to say that I got fired after I refused to attend any more useless meetings where nobody actually accomplished anything. I didn't fit their mold of a robot very well ... lol ...

MS is dying.

Or you were just incompetent.

[notjustjay]

but back on topic, MS is obviously looking for some change and isn't happy with their current position or prospects if they find it necessary to go head to head with apple as they said they are doing now.

And this is Microsoft's big problem, they are acting like an angsty teenager that cannot stand to think that they are not perfect at EVERYTHING. I was that kid once. I was a wanna-be at everything that someone else did that was cool. If someone succeeded at something and I didn't, I was angry and bitter -- overlooking the many other things that I could do that they couldn't. And sometimes my attitude was "if I can't have it, then you can't have it either". Regretfully there were a number of sabotaged relationships because I couldn't grasp that I needed to find my own thing, not try to be someone else.

This is evident in everything Microsoft has been doing. They have their core products -- Windows and Office -- but instead of focusing on steadily improving them, they insist on trying to be the best at everything else, too. Gaming platform? We'll build one too and KILL Sony! Internet browser? We'll build one too and KILL Netscape! Search engine? We'll build one too and KILL Google! Music player? We'll ...

Microsoft seems to want to have a finger in every pie out there. In quite a few places, they're doing very well. In others, they are floundering badly.

[iStudentUK]

3.6 x the operating income, and 9 x the market share. I would think with the massive majority of the market Microsoft has, they would pull in more money than they do. I am thinking if Apple had ~25% market share and Microsoft had 70% Apple would earn more.


Although MS has a much larger market share in terms of the computer market, Apple's iPod sales rightly dwarf Zune sales. iPod/iTunes form a large portion of Apple's income, so the figures are not an indication of Mac revenue. Consider also that Apple sells computers whilst MS only the operating system on computers, the profit for these products will vary.

It is extremely difficult to assess who has the greatest operating income in terms of relative market share, which is exactly why I never attempted to do that.

(I only ever stated that MS had a larger market share, and a larger op income per employee. I never related the market share to operating income)

[killerrobot]

A one to three hour car ride (depending on traffic) to Mission Viejo probably isn't worth going to see the store at the moment.
If I were in the neighborhood I would check it out though.

[spillproof]

You know, I actually want to see the new stores and play with their multi- touch computer thing. Win7 might just bring MS back into some good light.

[VenusianSky]

MS is dying, really?

They have the most popular OS (Windows),
The most popular office program (Office)
The 2nd most popular game console (xbox 360).
The most support in the business world.

I think they are doing fine...

Anytime I hear someone state that Microsoft is dying, I just assume that they are either a) An MS Basher b) Still in school c) Don't work in an office d) Completely oblivious to computer technology and/or corporate IT, though they probably wouldn't make such a statement unless for the sake of bashing

[Electrolytic]

And this is Microsoft's big problem, they are acting like an angsty teenager that cannot stand to think that they are not perfect at EVERYTHING. I was that kid once. I was a wanna-be at everything that someone else did that was cool. If someone succeeded at something and I didn't, I was angry and bitter -- overlooking the many other things that I could do that they couldn't. And sometimes my attitude was "if I can't have it, then you can't have it either". Regretfully there were a number of sabotaged relationships because I couldn't grasp that I needed to find my own thing, not try to be someone else.

This is evident in everything Microsoft has been doing. They have their core products -- Windows and Office -- but instead of focusing on steadily improving them, they insist on trying to be the best at everything else, too. Gaming platform? We'll build one too and KILL Sony! Internet browser? We'll build one too and KILL Netscape! Search engine? We'll build one too and KILL Google! Music player? We'll ...

Microsoft seems to want to have a finger in every pie out there. In quite a few places, they're doing very well. In others, they are floundering badly.

floundering badly: MSNBC, MSN, ZUNE, SEARCH?

Doing very well: Window's, xbox 360, xbox live, office?

[choiboyogg]

lol.. oh great

[VenusianSky]

I used to work there, I know. I'm proud to say that I got fired after I refused to attend any more useless meetings where nobody actually accomplished anything. I didn't fit their mold of a robot very well ... lol ...


Hmmm, you got fired because you refused to attend meetings... okie-dokie.

"Useless meetings where nobody actually accomplished anything"... well that tells me you never worked anywhere you had to attend meetings, because it is a general consensus in the business world that meetings never accomplish anything.

[Electrolytic]

Anytime I hear someone state that Microsoft is dying, I just assume that they are either a) An MS Basher b) Still in school c) Don't work in an office d) Completely oblivious to computer technology and/or corporate IT, though they probably wouldn't make such a statement unless for the sake of bashing

I know, I work for a tech company that uses windows, and you soon realize all the software company's that are invested in writing programs to run on windows, it's massive. The business world runs on windows & that is not going to change anytime soon. To many people have a lot money invested in windows surviving... If Apple died it would have a little effect in business world, however if Microsoft died the business world would grind to a halt...

[joueboy]

Who will be employed on that store formerly Best Buy staff who doesn't know anything about computer. The only answer they can give you is press Ctrl+Alt+Del one time solution. If you have more problems they will suggest you to buy Anti-Virus software. I would love to go to their store just to bitch on their not so genius staff, and when they got pissed they will tell you to call their call centers in India. LOL!

[aethelbert]

Who will be employed on that store formerly Best Buy staff who doesn't know anything about computer. The only answer they can give you is press Ctrl+Alt+Del one time solution. If you have more problems they will suggest you to buy Anti-Virus software. I would love to go to their store just to bitch on their not so genius staff, and when they got pissed they will tell you to call their call centers in India. LOL!
Unhelpful and knowledgeable retail staff? Sounds like a ripoff of Apple, and just about every other retailer as well!

[aristotle]

Don't anyone try to gloss over the fact that George Blankenship was in charge of creating the Apple Store for Steve Jobs. It's not like he was head of Gap Inc. strategy for their stores in the late 90s. Come to think of it, the Apple Store in no way resembles the Gap. Whitewashed walls, brightly lit, natural wood finishes. Apple ripped off the Gap, and we think M$ is the only one in the business of copying...
Steve Jobs was also on the board of directors at Gap Inc.

While appearance of a store and location, location, location gets people into a store, it is the products and service that make or break a sale.

[goodwilldrums]

"guru bar" "answer bar" really? that made me giggle...

[Designer Dale]

Anyone notice the transparent stools for the invisible people who will visit?

Dale

[rpaloalto]

Microsoft is not doing this to make money. This is just one more of the sick and twisted ideas to come from Steve Ballmer. Ballmer just wants to show all the other big boys that he is one of them too. Like how he decided google was getting to big. So he tried to buy yahoo. They said no at first. What did ballmer do. He went ape ****. Through a big fit.
Now that Apple has been gaining sales and popularity. He wants to put a damper on it. So what does he do? He has microsuck build a few stores just like Apple.
Financially it will cost more to keep them open. Then they'll bring in. So what, Microsoft can afford it. Keep them around for a few years then close them up.
Let Ballmer feel like he is a big time player.

Monkey boy steve ballmer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc

[Glideslope]

10 year waiting list for the Guru Bar :D

LOL, I was going for 20!!!!:D

[CleverClock]

a retail store so we can try out and see how crappy windows is.... :D
:apple: FTW

indeed dude :D

[TheSlush]

So, they're basically going to lift the entire interior design from the Apple Stores? Typical.

[Treq]

On the other hand, I liked the Sony stores because the atmosphere (at least the one nearest me) was more like a high-end electronics shop than a place like Best Buy. Where you develop working relationships with the sales people. And, you can negotiate, rather easily even:

(after a few minutes of discussion about a camcorder)
Me: "... ok, so I'm interested. Can you better than $1299?"
Salesperson: *checks computer* "I can sell it to you for $1238."
Me: "Throw in a couple of tapes?"
Salesperson: "Sure."
Me: "Great, we have a deal."

Getting a deal at Best Buy is like pulling teeth. And a month after the transaction I received a thank-you card in the mail from the salesperson, hoping I was satisfied with the camera.

Tapes?! What cameras use tapes anymore?

[TheSlush]

So um, Gizmodo can't wait, LOL???? Are they the PC fanboy anti-Apple site now?? LMAO

Gizmodo: Leak: Inside the Microsoft Store With Wall-Sized Screens and the Answers Bar (http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-inside-the-microsoft-store-with-wall+sized-screens-and-the-answer-bar/gallery/)

[Eidorian]

So um, Gizmodo can't wait, LOL???? Are they the PC fanboy anti-Apple site now?? LMAO

Gizmodo: Leak: Inside the Microsoft Store With Wall-Sized Screens and the Answers Bar (http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-inside-the-microsoft-store-with-wall+sized-screens-and-the-answer-bar/gallery/)

Fri Jul 24 2009Rather old news around here.

[inkswamp]

A Guru Bar? Do they really need someone to stand there and say, "Oh, that's Dell's fault. Check with them"?

[inkswamp]

I know, I work for a tech company that uses windows, and you soon realize all the software company's that are invested in writing programs to run on windows, it's massive. The business world runs on windows & that is not going to change anytime soon.

You realize that you could go back 30 years and say the same about IBM. Things do change and the shift away from Microsoft is pretty clear. 10 years ago, you had to fight tooth-and-nail to keep Macs in the office and now, they're all over the place. It won't happen overnight and Microsoft won't ever completely disappear, but their days of dominating all aspects of enterprise are coming to an end.

[MacFly123]

Just like Apple limit 3rd party software in their own AppStore?

.. and the difference is?

I am referring to the selection of hardware. Microsoft rips on Apple for having few computer choices. And yet now they will limit the options showcased in their own stores because their "choices" and lack of making their own hardware and software together ends up in a mess and confusion for their customers. In doing this they are inherently confirming that lol. That has nothing to do with Apple denying some Apps in the App Store. :rolleyes:

Well done lad, now you may almost kiss Steve's feet! And play with the big boys here :D

Haha. Well I am reading a series of articles about the history of the computer industry and the more I learn about Microsoft and their business ethics and practices the more furious I get. I know Apple is not perfect, but I respect their model and approach and products.

Check them out, there are tons:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC.html

[Arisian]

Ok... HAH! Microsoft is going to open a 'Guru Bar' yet they haven't figured out how to fix this?

http://jmobley123.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/blue-screen-of-death1.jpg
Give me an eff'n break.

[Arisian]

You're right, but that doesn't change the fact that I hate my job. I really work for Apple, and I have to go around every single time I work there telling people not to believe rumor sites like this one. It's actually pretty ironic.

Apparently you don't believe that Apple employees could ever possibly be on this website.

Well, I'm Steve Jobs and you are FIRED!
(nonetheless, it's possible to hate any job. Going to work for Microsoft at a retail store seems like a great idea! Have fun! /s)

[miketcool]

Ok... HAH! Microsoft is going to open a 'Guru Bar' yet they haven't figured out how to fix this?

Give me an eff'n break.

Ha ha, seriously! I mean Apple has a Genius Bar and that can't fix this either!

http://ericstoller.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/osxcrash.gif

[splashnader]

I am still trying to figure out what they are going to sell in the stores. They don't make anything of any real significance, other than a really crappy operating system. Apple had no choice. They had to open retail stores because they are the only ones who sell their computers, software, and hardware, until very recently you either bought at apple.com or at one of their retail stores.

I guess Microsoft will work out a deal with Dell and HP, but still it's not like you can't just go already to Best Buy, COMP USA, Circuit City, HH Greg and half a dozen other big chain stores and get a HP or Dell. Sony has their own Sony Style showcase stores in most major cities. So again what the hell is Microsoft going to sell at their stores which is going to set them apart from Best Buy, etc.

Their new operating system is still garbage, it just has new packaging and new a name, still the same old Microsoft under the hood. Only someone really gullible would actually believe that Microsoft has actually created a new stable operating system, that wont have to have half dozen anti-virus and spy-ware programs running alongside the operating system. I mean yes their crap is cheap in cost, which will always make it attractive to less knowledgeable buyers. But do they really need a specialty store to con people out of their money.


If you were Microsoft would you really want people playing around in your stores in such a high profile setting and having people walk buy and see a frozen computer screen or the dreaded "Warning your computer is infected with (list virus) please pay $49.99 urgently or you could lose all your data" Best to keep those things between you and your gullible customers.

[carniver]

Ok... HAH! Microsoft is going to open a 'Guru Bar' yet they haven't figured out how to fix this?

http://jmobley123.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/blue-screen-of-death1.jpg
Give me an eff'n break.
Here you go:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888399

[charlituna]

If some of the stores are right next to Apple stores, I think it would lead to some great window displays.

or not. Apple is likely to ignore the stores and just focus on being Apple.

Given that Microsoft isn't going to sell any computers in their stores (at least not right now), they aren't likely to be a huge threat to a shop were you can walk in with a wad of cash and walk out with a new computer, a printer, a wireless router, an external hard drive for backups, productivity software, some art programs, a few games (just picked up Sims 3 for my roommate when I went to get the Final Cut and Logic upgrades for the office) etc. AND for a mere $100 get a file transfer from that XP machine of yours and a years training on your new computer. not bad.

You'd think they would want to open many stores in time for Christmas not just 2.:confused:

these are just the test stores. similar neighborhoods (money wise) not in an Apple mall, one in a not. see which does the best.

I'm looking forward to these microsoft stores - it will encourage Apple to only improve their stores more

there's not much else Apple can do to improve their stores other than perhaps more floor space, a workshop theatre in all stores and trainers that know all their apps (wouldn't hurt if the sales people know a bit about those pro apps)


I don't think Apple wants to have a huge market share that badly.

lack of a huge market share is how Psystar lost their first law suit. it is what makes it 'legal' for Apple to tie hardware and software. so while I think yes they are looking for more buyers, I suspect they aren't gunning for a big 50% plus. 25-30% is huge at this point, given that they have like 7% at the moment

In Snobsdale? Those people are the anti-laptop-hunters. They buy stuff 'cuz it's purdy.

Big miss on that one. Should have been in a less affluent area.

that is exactly why it is a shrewd move. those with money are the ones that can afford to buy big, especially if they see value in it. a 'cheaper' company has to show that there is the same value with a smaller ticket. doing that is actually harder than selling to those that simply can't buy higher.

[tdream]

Ok... HAH! Microsoft is going to open a 'Guru Bar' yet they haven't figured out how to fix this?

http://jmobley123.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/blue-screen-of-death1.jpg
Give me an eff'n break.

Haven't seen that since XP, never once happened on my Vista PC. The memory allocation won't let it.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yes indeed. The anti-MS Apple fanboys are out in full force today. Quality entertainment. But please tell me, what did you own before a Mac?

In my case, A Pied Piper Computer... <Google it> ;)

I did my first computer graphics on an Apple ][ Plus in High School.

I've only purchased IBM Compatibles (since a Mac is technically a PC) for my business. However, I've been the proud owner of Macintoshes since the Classic/LC3 days.

The Mac OS (and the computers that run it) are just TOO enjoyable to use.

'nuff said.

[Arisian]

Haven't seen that since XP, never once happened on my Vista PC. The memory allocation won't let it.

you guy's are totally missing the point. Seriously, you LOOKED at that error and then went off to try and trouble shoot a sarcastic comment on a forum?

Wow. Congrats.

*not tdream as much as the other guy. Oh well, best thing Microsoft could do would to be to build in a function for quickly rebooting your computer.

[Digital Skunk]

I have issues with my Macs and the Genius bar techs scratch their heads too.

The MS store is a total rip off, but who knows, they might just do a better job at it than Apple.

May even pay their employees a decent wage too.

[charlituna]

I guess that won't be allowed in MS Stores, unless they hire the al least the double amount of staff to reinstall each PC several times a day and do hourly firewall/viruscheck updates.

cause they won't have any computers to use. other than the token ones running in kiosk mode.




Apparently you don't believe that Apple employees could ever possibly be on this website.

I feel fairly sure that there's a rule at Apple, like many other companies, to stay off sites like this. at risk of your job. suppose that's why you haven't given your real name and exactly which store you work at.

and if you hate it so much, leave. If you are smart enough to see how awful working there is, you are more than smart enough to find another better job.

Plain and simple: anytime I hear another employee excitedly say "No, anyone can help you out, we're NOT on commission!" I have to ask myself, do these morons know what they're missing out on???

so i'm confused. are you mad because while you are taking care of the customer they pushed off, they are back in the back playing coke pong and looking up videos of Megan Fox on their iphones.

or because you get the sale, get the credit for it, look like the great employee who might get one of those elusive promotions when you really didn't want the extra hours, more pay etc