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arn
Jul 13, 2002, 02:06 AM
Despite previous denials (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943509.html) of plans for official Apple Stores internationally, CNet is reporting (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943509.html) that Apple will be opening a retail store in the Netherlands:

Patrick van Sloten, who manages Machouse, an independent Apple dealer in the Netherlands, said Apple has told dealers that it plans to open a store in Amsterdam. An announcement is scheduled for July 17, the same day Apple CEO Steve Jobs delivers a keynote address at Macworld Expo in New York.

redAPPLE
Jul 13, 2002, 03:03 AM
That would be the right thing to do, if Apple wants to increase awareness and acceptance in Europe.

I have friends over there, who say, "What can you do with it? Can I read my Emails on that thing? Can I write Word Documents?"

I enthusiastically said, "YES! YOU CAN! AND MORE!"

I guess some europeans might regard Apple, with UNIX and Linux machines.

That has to change. Bring the Apple Stores to Europe!

j763
Jul 13, 2002, 04:24 AM
Apple Australia stores would kick ass :) but i doubt they'll bother about us :(

Choppaface
Jul 13, 2002, 04:38 AM
now all apple needs is some sort of mount for stowing ipods and ibooks on bicycles and they'll be rolln'in the dough :D :D

Wes
Jul 13, 2002, 04:49 AM
Why the Netherlands? England or Germany would be a better choice (they have the largest economies). And in England there are plenty of rich people, judging by the number of porsche's.

Tottenham court road would be the best place with all the computer shops being there.

suranyami
Jul 13, 2002, 05:04 AM
For a significant capital city in a reasonably affluent European country, Amsterdam has just about the worst Apple support I've ever experienced anywhere!
If they really do open an Apple store here I will be one really happy guy.

And yeah... they should include bicycle adaptors for powerbooks!... and cheese interfaces, too... maybe even have a windmill-powered portable

iwantanewmac
Jul 13, 2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by W-_-W
Why the Netherlands? England or Germany would be a better choice (they have the largest economies). And in England there are plenty of rich people, judging by the number of porsche's.

Tottenham court road would be the best place with all the computer shops being there.



Well...Englands economy isn't all that great and Germany has high unemployment and Holland is the best place to start a new company for 4 years in a row so........:)
I think it's a great idea!
Now if they just cut the prices a little. (macs are 20% more expensive here)

crassusad44
Jul 13, 2002, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Now if they just cut the prices a little. (macs are 20% more expensive here)

Heard of VAT? Prices in the US are ex VAT, prices in the EU (and rest of Europe) are incl. VAT.

Personally, I would love to see Apple opening retail stores in Europe. This is something that really could boost international Mac sales. What about an Apple Store on Champs Elysses? That would be cool, and ****ing expensive :p :)

Tiauguinho
Jul 13, 2002, 05:39 AM
Crassusad44

Hmm... i know that prices in the US exclude VAT, but I'll give you an example...

A PowerMac G4 DP1Ghz costs here 3,499 without VAT, with VAT in Portugal that will be 4,163.81!

A Apple Display 23' costs here wihout VAT 4,299, with VAT it costs 5,115!

A PowerMac G4 DP1ghz costs in the US $2,999

A Apple Display 23' in the US costs $3,499


It's not only the VAT... Prices are very High in Europe...

iGav
Jul 13, 2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Well...Englands economy isn't all that great and Germany has high unemployment and Holland is the best place to start a new company for 4 years in a row so........:)
I think it's a great idea!
Now if they just cut the prices a little. (macs are 20% more expensive here)

Englands economy is very strong at the moment......... very low unemployment, low interest rates, solid high street spending........... we're in a better position than almost every other economy in Europe to ride out the current volatile global economic conditions.........

Personally I think Apple should focus on an Apple store in the capital city of ever European country.......... and then work from there...... London does certainly need one... (although we do have a small one on New Oxford Street opposite Point 101) the rest are just authorised resellers....... so I do feel that it is essential...... although certainly now more so than in other European countries.......

As for VAT........ almost every reseller currently list Apple products without VAT...... to make them look cheaper... than underneath in ultra weeny type... you see the price including VAT........ small print..... marvellous invention :p

iGav
Jul 13, 2002, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
It's not only the VAT... Prices are very High in Europe...

It's even worse in Britain........ don't even think about buying a new car in England...... it's cheaper to fly over to Holland, buy one there (RHD as well), drive it back, get a ferry crossing, pay customs and import tax and drive it home...... including all fuel and hotels........ then it is to buy a new car at a local dealer ship 2 miles down the road from your house......... all for exactly the same model....... and you'll still save yourself a few k in the process....... and you get a holiday too.....

Europe in particular Britain....... is just way too ********* expensive....... :mad: :( :rolleyes:

dantec
Jul 13, 2002, 06:03 AM
I think Amsterdam is probably just the start. All the rest of you, shouldn't get worried.

I hope they open up a couple in Europe. Die all you f*%&ing swiss mac dealers! I've only been to a retail store once (in CA), and it was great. The staff helped me (they didn't underlook me cause i'm 13), (in switz, i'm underlooked, like a theif, or incompetant, but after I walk out with a quicksilver, then something finally clicks in their little heads). Ever since those experiences 'any' mac hardware or software, I try to get offline.

The Swiss online Apple store is great! They always get their dates wrong :eek:. They said my iPod would take 2 weeks to come, and it came in 3 days! :)

Peter Villevoye
Jul 13, 2002, 06:08 AM
Apple Europe has a long standing tradition of "Apple Centres".
In the late eighties they launched this scheme and local dealers
could buy themselves into this chain of "Apple endorsed" stores.
They all carried the same look, intentions and pretentions...
But they still were privately owned, separate companies.

After a decade, the setup started to crumble. Resellers didn't
want to comply with certain Apple centre rules but still wanted
to take a large bite out of the Apple market. So many resellers
(large ones too) didn't care about a franchising idea anymore.

So I wonder whether this 'new' idea is just a revival of the old,
giving local resellers a (new) chance to show some Apple-style,
since the non-Apple Centres look unappealing to Apple users.
The fact that the (american0 Apple "Store" name won't be used
gives the impression it's something that Apple Europe invented.
Hopefully Jobs approves of it all...

dantec
Jul 13, 2002, 06:10 AM
If your worried about VAT, just charge it thorugh a company... :) Then you can deduct it. Or, you can do it like do, if you have 2 passports... :)


England is totally outrageous, but fun none the less. Like a normal playstation 2 game costs about 25-40 SFR more in England.

Switz is a tad more expensive than the U.S. Like the iPod. If you convert it into SFR, it is around 630-650 SFR, but Apple charges you 745SFR.

sand
Jul 13, 2002, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by crassusad44


Heard of VAT? Prices in the US are ex VAT, prices in the EU (and rest of Europe) are incl. VAT.

Personally, I would love to see Apple opening retail stores in Europe. This is something that really could boost international Mac sales. What about an Apple Store on Champs Elysses? That would be cool, and ****ing expensive :p :)

My experience for Italian prices:
From Apple store:
Imac G4 700 2099
Powermac G4 800 2279

All are vat included (in italy The "iva" on this products is 20%).

The Euro has today THE SAME value of dollar so I can' t understand theese prices.

sand
Jul 13, 2002, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by crassusad44


Heard of VAT? Prices in the US are ex VAT, prices in the EU (and rest of Europe) are incl. VAT.

Personally, I would love to see Apple opening retail stores in Europe. This is something that really could boost international Mac sales. What about an Apple Store on Champs Elysses? That would be cool, and ****ing expensive :p :)

My experience for Italian prices:
From Apple store:
Imac G4 700 2099
Powermac G4 800 2279

All are vat included (in italy The "iva" on this products is 20%).

The Euro has today THE SAME value of dollar so I can' t understand theese prices.

DidotCicero
Jul 13, 2002, 04:16 PM
It is my humble opinion that the shop in Amsterdam will be an experiment.
Apple has used the Netherlands before to test marketing strategies.

For example: They used/choose the Primafoonwinkel (a web of telecom related shops owned by KPN, the royal dutch phone company) to sell the iMac nationwide. Which was a unique experiment that had follow-ups in other countries.
They went even further: It proved that the employees of those shops lacked some knowledge of the iMac. Even giving wrong advice. So regular Mac-users (united at spidernet) offered Apple Benelux to assist the people of Primafoon in explaining the possibilities of the machine to the general public. And Apple Benelux responded positive on it. So the first Volunteer iMac Promotion Team was erected. The volunteers were NOT paid, apart from money for gas or train tickets. They traveled all over the Netherlands to tell people about the iMac (and the other mac's) from bookshops to household events. It was eventually disbanded (after a year or so, I'm not sure) and Apple Benelux started to use a English DoubleDecker to tour the Country for a while. Personally I think that was a mistake, the crew lacked the passion and enthousiasm that the volunteers had.

Well, don't blame me, I was just one of the volunteers ;)

Tue12
Jul 13, 2002, 06:39 PM
Europeans are a messed up bunch, I gotta say. Fun, but messed up. :) I mean really, you guys expect to legally only work 35hours a week -that is, during the 4 weeks of the year you not on strike or on your utlra-long vacations- while at the same time you expect to have full medical insurance, social insurance, education and labor unions that border on facism/communism. All the while complaining and surprised that you have to actually pay for it with your VATs, high tariffs and 80% income taxes.

The English are wackoo to - they don't even consider themselves European, so why should I ;) - but atleast we respect them. Everytime there's some military butt-kicking to do they're right there with us despite the fact between the whole lot of them they can barely afford a cruise missle to shoot. :P

Did I mention your women lousy in bed. Surprising, since they're so 'easy' they must get around a lot...

I'm just poking fun, guys. :p :D

Spent three years in L'Aquila, Italy; loved it. I'm a Eumarican, practically. :)

aafuss1
Jul 13, 2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by j763
Apple Australia stores would kick ass :) but i doubt they'll bother about us :(

Don't you know Apple Australia stores are called AppleCentres. If you purchase a copy of Australian Macworld at he back of the magazine there's a list of AppleCentres.

j763
Jul 14, 2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by aafuss1


Don't you know Apple Australia stores are called AppleCentres. If you purchase a copy of Australian Macworld at he back of the magazine there's a list of AppleCentres.

dude, applecenters are NOT owned by Apple Australia. AppleCenters are just apple resellers. And to say the least, you certainly wouldn't call an applecenter tech person a 'mac genius'... i spoke to one of them at nextbyte (http://www.nextbyte.com.au), who had no clue what bluetooth was and thought that unix was a variant of dos (i'm not kidding)... John Groves at metek interstahl (http://www.metek.com.au) is the only one i've met who's got good (in john's case, excellent) technical knowledge.

gerror
Jul 14, 2002, 04:24 AM
I think we can use one in Amsterdam. As well in all big european cities.

MacFocus
Jul 14, 2002, 05:07 AM
This would be great, Apple seems to take some serious effort to expose itself into the consumer market over here in the Netherlands.
They even placed an 8 page advertisment which was all about switching from PC to Mac, in the magazine of the largest computerclub in the world (HCCnet, holland).

And the store so close to home...

Peter Villevoye
Jul 14, 2002, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by j763
dude, applecenters are NOT owned by Apple Australia. AppleCenters are just apple resellers.
Righto ! "Apple Centres" as exploited here in Europe (and seemingly in Australia too) are just a franchising setup. So as long as this new plan is not coming straight from Cupertino, I'm still worried it's just a rip-off to let some local resellers build a chain of new facades for their old shops. We'll see and we'll let y'all know what it is, as soon as Apple NL has spoken...

Keep an eye on http://www.macfreak.org/
(a Mac-site, covering dutch news on 17/7)

BTW: great description of the average european dude, Tue12 ;)
Originally posted by Tue12
Europeans are a messed up bunch, I gotta say. Fun, but messed up. I mean really, you guys expect to legally only work 35hours a week -that is, during the 4 weeks of the year you not on strike or on your utlra-long vacations- while at the same time you expect to have full medical insurance, social insurance, education and labor unions that border on facism/communism. All the while complaining and surprised that you have to actually pay for it with your VATs, high tariffs and 80% income taxes.

j763
Jul 14, 2002, 07:43 AM
what's this about an apple store in france... as a matter of interest, anyone know roughly what apple's market share is in france (i would have thought it would be quite high because macs are 'tres chic').

iGav
Jul 14, 2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Tue12
Europeans are a messed up bunch, I gotta say. Fun, but messed up. :) I mean really, you guys expect to legally only work 35hours a week -that is, during the 4 weeks of the year you not on strike or on your utlra-long vacations- while at the same time you expect to have full medical insurance, social insurance, education and labor unions that border on facism/communism. All the while complaining and surprised that you have to actually pay for it with your VATs, high tariffs and 80% income taxes.

The English are wackoo to - they don't even consider themselves European, so why should I ;) - but atleast we respect them. Everytime there's some military butt-kicking to do they're right there with us despite the fact between the whole lot of them they can barely afford a cruise missle to shoot. :P


The Europeans certainly do get off lightly with only 35 hours per week........ it's 42 to 44 in old Blighty......... :( unless you're a NHS Doctor that is.......... winjing about working 65 hour weeks....... 65 hours......... seems like heaven to me...... :p

iwantanewmac
Jul 14, 2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Tue12
Europeans are a messed up bunch, I gotta say. Fun, but messed up. :) I mean really, you guys expect to legally only work 35hours a week -that is, during the 4 weeks of the year you not on strike or on your utlra-long vacations- while at the same time you expect to have full medical insurance, social insurance, education and labor unions that border on facism/communism. All the while complaining and surprised that you have to actually pay for it with your VATs, high tariffs and 80% income taxes.

The English are wackoo to - they don't even consider themselves European, so why should I ;) - but atleast we respect them. Everytime there's some military butt-kicking to do they're right there with us despite the fact between the whole lot of them they can barely afford a cruise missle to shoot. :P

Did I mention your women lousy in bed. Surprising, since they're so 'easy' they must get around a lot...

I'm just poking fun, guys. :p :D

Spent three years in L'Aquila, Italy; loved it. I'm a Eumarican, practically. :)




I won't even coment on that 1.......

dantec
Jul 14, 2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Tue12
Europeans are a messed up bunch, I gotta say. Fun, but messed up. :) I mean really, you guys expect to legally only work 35hours a week -that is, during the 4 weeks of the year you not on strike or on your utlra-long vacations- while at the same time you expect to have full medical insurance, social insurance, education and labor unions that border on facism/communism. All the while complaining and surprised that you have to actually pay for it with your VATs, high tariffs and 80% income taxes.

The English are wackoo to - they don't even consider themselves European, so why should I ;) - but atleast we respect them. Everytime there's some military butt-kicking to do they're right there with us despite the fact between the whole lot of them they can barely afford a cruise missle to shoot. :P

Did I mention your women lousy in bed. Surprising, since they're so 'easy' they must get around a lot...

I'm just poking fun, guys. :p :D

Spent three years in L'Aquila, Italy; loved it. I'm a Eumarican, practically. :)

Oh yeah.. as if the Swiss here strike... Yeah oubiously.. and pigs fly.

We don't have this minimum-maximum hours ************.

Macs are also tres chick here, cause not very many people have them, but the swiss go for the look of the iMac, and amazingly Compaq's seem to outsell Dells... :S

The great thing about switzerland is, that you can find tons of other mac people that speak english, because of the diplomats.

groov'
Jul 15, 2002, 04:41 AM
hiep hiep hoera! as we call it here.

This store is only 10 miles from where I live!

I'll visit the store often but probably not buy anything there. Some Apple dealers here are a lot cheaper than the Apple online shop. I guess prices in the online shop and in the 'realworld' shop are the same?

DidotCicero
Jul 17, 2002, 02:35 PM
According to dutch site MacFreak (http://www.macfreak.org -in dutch only, sorry-) there are to be three new apple stores in Holland. Ton van Garderen van Apple NL said that those stores would be demonstration- and salespoints. They are to be located in the 'Arsenaal'-stores of famous dutch interior designer Jan des Bouvrie. The stores are manned personnel of (and owned by) HTR Apple Center (formaly known as HTR Mailing). Apple NL hopes it gets more salespoints through this action, but also hopes to get the Mac out of the IT-atmosphere and more into the livingrooms of people, hence the location of a interior design shop.

> DidotCicero

goldmember
Jul 18, 2002, 12:48 AM
fred anderson said in the latest conference call that apple "has no plans" of building any international stores. Either he's lying or he doesn't know what he's talking about.

DidotCicero
Jul 18, 2002, 03:48 AM
Please note that there's a difference between the AppleStore(s) (as owned by Apple Inc.) and Apple Centers and a like, which are NOT owned by Apple.

The three new stores in Holland are manned by and owned by dutch company HTR Apple Center, not by Apple Inc. or Apple NL. The three new stores are more or less based on the 'store in a store'-concept.
Just see it like a showroom/salespoint of a regular apple dealer, but on a different location (in someone else's store, in this case an interior design shop)

So Fred Anderson is not lying and does know what he's talking about.

> DidotCicero

Peter Villevoye
Jul 18, 2002, 05:01 AM
The fact that the Dutch store is just a "store" or shop-in-shop,
but absolutely no real "Apple Store", was a disillusion to hear.
Allbeit that the "Bouvrie" outlets are very high-brow locations.
Just take a look: http://www.jandesbouvrie.nl/

The Dutch management team told us that they had no idea
how the message evolved from "retail scoop" to "Apple Store"
(Macsites were already showing pictures of possible locations).
But the thrill and enthousiasm must have given them the clue
that an Apple Store would be a very much applauded decision.
On the other hand, I think all local resellers have given them
a very uncomfortable cut-throat feeling too, these last days...
Bypassing their exclusive resale agreement would be harsh.
(The Dutch on-line Apple Store has non-competitive prices.)

Peter Villevoye

goldmember
Jul 18, 2002, 01:56 PM
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943509.html

That article says that an actual dealer in the Netherlands had given the nod to a new Apple-owned store being opened there.

DidotCicero
Jul 18, 2002, 03:59 PM
That's the article that was written before official press release was released (which was on July 17, article was written on July 12).

These are the facts:
Three Apple 'points of sale' will be opened on September 1st in the Netherlands.
They are located as a store-in-a-store in the "Arsenaal Stores" of dutch interior designer Jan des Bouvrie, in the cities of Naarden-Vesting, Grave en Schiedam.
They are manned and operated by AppleCenter HTR.
The shops will carry the same complete range of products as on the online AppleStore.

This info comes directly from mr. Ton van Garderen,managing director of Apple NL

(source: http://www.macfan.nl -in dutch only, sorry-)

Shiek
Jul 18, 2002, 06:11 PM
I must say that there IS some specialists in Australia who live and breath Apple. Awave is one of them (http://www.awave.com.au), who specialize in Apple and Pro Audio. They offer very personalized service and turnkey solutions foe evrything Apple and Audio.