Patriot Act Request

[Chip NoVaMac]

Amy Goldstein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 18, 2004; Page A11

The FBI asked the Justice Department last fall to seek permission from a secret federal court to use the most controversial provision of the USA Patriot Act, four weeks after Attorney General John D. Ashcroft said that part of the law had never been used, according to government documents disclosed this week.

A one-paragraph memo -- saying the FBI wanted to use the part of the law that allows investigators in terrorism and espionage cases easier access to people's business and library records -- was in a stack of documents the government has released under court order, as debate persists over whether use of the anti-terrorism law violates civil liberties.

<snip>

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the Justice Department, said yesterday that the disclosed memo does not establish whether the FISA court has ever granted such a request, or even whether the agency forwarded the FBI's request to that court. Asked whether that request -- or any others since -- had been made to or approved by the court, Corallo replied, "That's classified."

Corallo said that in Ashcroft's September memo saying the provision had never been used, the attorney general was "not only . . . being technically accurate. He was being completely accurate."



Corallo probably even said it with a straight face. :rolleyes:

I guess Emperor Bush is wearing no clothes....

[zimv20]

I guess Emperor Bush is wearing no clothes....

bush: i never said i was going to wear clothes. show me where i said i would wear clothes. what's important is that the folks in iraq now have the freedom to wear or not wear clothes, as we've seen.

[skunk]

bush: i never said i was going to wear clothes. show me where i said i would wear clothes. what's important is that the folks in iraq now have the freedom to wear or not wear clothes, as we've seen.
Naked aggression?

[Backtothemac]

Who voted the partiot act into law? Was it Bush? Did not think so.

[zimv20]

Who voted the partiot act into law? Was it Bush? Did not think so.
only because, not being a member of congress, he can't vote. it was, however, his justice dept that drafted it, and he _did_ sign it.

[Neserk]

only because, not being a member of congress, he can't vote. it was, however, his justice dept that drafted it, and he _did_ sign it.


I guess some people need a refresher course on how these things get passed, huh?

[Frohickey]

Congress drafts bills, with input from concerned parties.
Congress also votes for or against the bill.
President signs or vetos bills.

Are any of you surprised that something that is allowed by law used by government?
Once something is allowed by law, it is always guaranteed, no question, will end up being used sometime, if not now, then later.
That is why you want to deny a whole slew of powers from the government. Better to have the power rest with the people.

[zimv20]

That is why you want to deny a whole slew of powers from the government. Better to have the power rest with the people.
it's always a balance. imo the patriot act goes too far.

[Frohickey]

it's always a balance. imo the patriot act goes too far.

I agree the PATRIOT ACT goes to far.

But I want the balance to swing in my favor (and yours of course). Less power for government means more power for you and me.

[skunk]

I agree the PATRIOT ACT goes to far.

But I want the balance to swing in my favor (and yours of course). Less power for government means more power for you and me.
Whaaa? We have CONSENSUS!!! :eek: :eek:

[Stelliform]

.....

[Frohickey]

Whaaa? We have CONSENSUS!!! :eek: :eek:

:D

I will hold you to this line of reasoning in other posts. :eek: :eek: :p

[Neserk]

But the House and Senate approved it. In our check's and balances system, they seemed to think it was great based on the overwhelming support that they gave it. (since a majority of Republicans and Democrats approved it.)

I haven't read the law, but from what I have heard I think I am against at least parts of it. But Bush is not alone in getting it passed.

Senate (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313) yea's 98
Nay's 1
No vote 1

House (http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2001&rollnumber=398)
Yea's 357
Nay's 66
No Vote 9

(With a majority of Republicans and Democrats supporting it in both the House and the Senate.)

So *what* is your point? This doesn't hold Bushy-boy any less culpable for *his* actions, including signing the bill. If he had an ounce of integrity he would have vetoed it. He wanted this! And "the buck stops here" when it comes to what he signs into law!

[Frohickey]

So *what* is your point? This doesn't hold Bushy-boy any less culpable for *his* actions, including signing the bill. If he had an ounce of integrity he would have vetoed it. He wanted this! And "the buck stops here" when it comes to what he signs into law!

GWBush signed CFR as well. You know, CFR, also known as the First Amendment Abolishment Act. :eek:

[Voltron]

So *what* is your point? This doesn't hold Bushy-boy any less culpable for *his* actions, including signing the bill. If he had an ounce of integrity he would have vetoed it. He wanted this! And "the buck stops here" when it comes to what he signs into law!
I was curious which way did Kerry vote or did he bother to show up for the vote?http://www.imesh.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Stelliform]

.....

[zimv20]

But the House and Senate approved it.
i'm not holding congress blameless at all. nor the american public. just about everyone was swept up in the fear. i commented on b2tm's post because i thought it was disingenuous to imply bush wasn't reponsible for the act. lots of people were.

[Neserk]

I was curious which way did Kerry vote or did he bother to show up for the vote?http://www.imesh.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif


This isn't about Kerry, this is about Bushy-boy and his responsibility as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

As a teacher I sign a contract to uphold the consitution. Ya'd think the President of the country would have to do the same, wouldn't you? He has a huge resposibility being as he alone is one branch of the 3 branches of government. Kerrry voting against it wouldn't have made one bit of difference either way :rolleyes: Bushy-boy veto-ing it would have made *all* the difference. :eek: Guess you didn't think of that, huh?

[Neserk]

Are you upset that Kerry voted for it? I say that holds him just as responsible.

Edit:

Oh wait, now Kerry is against it.... :rolleyes: Kerry Flip Flops (http://slate.msn.com/id/2096540/)

At least Kerry has the balls to admit he was wrong. I doubt Bushy-boy knows what they are!

[Stelliform]

.....

[Frohickey]

This isn't about Kerry, this is about Bushy-boy and his responsibility as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

As a teacher I sign a contract to uphold the consitution. Ya'd think the President of the country would have to do the same, wouldn't you? He has a huge resposibility being as he alone is one branch of the 3 branches of government. Kerrry voting against it wouldn't have made one bit of difference either way :rolleyes: Bushy-boy veto-ing it would have made *all* the difference. :eek: Guess you didn't think of that, huh?

Do you? Uphold the Constitution?

Boy-o-boy, if I have a time machine, i would travel back in time and corner James Madison as he was writing the US Constitution and I would have tried my hardest to have him include a provision in the US Constitution, that any and all persons in government that votes for an unconstitutional law are to be charged with treason and executed in the most painful way possible.

How many bills have GWBush signed into law that are unconstitutional? Lets see... portions of the PATRIOT ACT, the whole CFR, his planned signing of the AWBan.

How many bills have JFKerry voted for that are unconstitutional?
Lets see...the PATRIOT ACT, the CFR, and a whole slew of other bills ever since he made his way into Congress.

[Neserk]

Do you? Uphold the Constitution?

.


Yup. Including voting against Bushy-boy who isn't doing it in November!

[Voltron]

Yup. Including voting against Bushy-boy who isn't doing it in November!
Yet your willing to replace him with Kerry.http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/conf11.gif

[Chip NoVaMac]

But the House and Senate approved it. In our check's and balances system, they seemed to think it was great based on the overwhelming support that they gave it. (since a majority of Republicans and Democrats approved it.)

I haven't read the law, but from what I have heard I think I am against at least parts of it. But Bush is not alone in getting it passed.

Senate (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313) yea's 98
Nay's 1
No vote 1

House (http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2001&rollnumber=398)
Yea's 357
Nay's 66
No Vote 9

(With a majority of Republicans and Democrats supporting it in both the House and the Senate.)

It only goes to show that we should not pass laws in haste.

The act was proposed and passed in less than a month and half after 9-11. Emotions were still very raw from the attacks. Heck, I probably would have voted for it.

Now that emotions have died down, we can now see the flaws.

[Chip NoVaMac]

He is from Mass. right?

Kerry (D-MA), Yea



Are you upset that Kerry voted for it? I say that holds him just as responsible.

Edit:

Oh wait, now Kerry is against it.... :rolleyes: Kerry Flip Flops (http://slate.msn.com/id/2096540/)

Why is it flip flopping to change ones stance once the facts become clearer?

There was a rush for the Patriot Act. The idea behind No Child Left Behind was good, the implementation sucks.

Maybe that is the problem with the Republican Party. They can't admit they were wrong. Just look at Bush's administration and their digging in after their lies are proven to be just that, lies.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree with you there. Even if it went to public vote in October 2001 it probably would have passed.

And fear is a very powerful motivator. Look at the many wrongs of this nation through out history, and they were driven by fear (and greed, but that is another topic).

[Voltron]

Why is it flip flopping to change ones stance once the facts become clearer?

There was a rush for the Patriot Act. The idea behind No Child Left Behind was good, the implementation sucks.

Maybe that is the problem with the Republican Party. They can't admit they were wrong. Just look at Bush's administration and their digging in after their lies are proven to be just that, lies.
He flip flops on everything. Thats allot of facts coming clear all at once. http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/new_silly.gif Thing is with Kerry he is simply reinventing himself into what will win the election, not in the real person he'll be once elected.

[skunk]

He flip flops on everything. Thats allot of facts coming clear all at once. http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/new_silly.gif Thing is with Kerry he is simply reinventing himself into what will win the election, not in the real person he'll be once elected.
Sounds familiar...

[takao]

He flip flops on everything. Thats allot of facts coming clear all at once. http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/new_silly.gif Thing is with Kerry he is simply reinventing himself into what will win the election, not in the real person he'll be once elected.

you might find this interesting:
http://www.flip-flop.de/

[Chip NoVaMac]

He flip flops on everything. Thats allot of facts coming clear all at once. http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/new_silly.gif Thing is with Kerry he is simply reinventing himself into what will win the election, not in the real person he'll be once elected.

Though it would have been interesting to see Bush with 20+ years of political service, and his flip flopping, particularly after a night of alcohol and cocaine.

Better than lying to the public while squandering away limited tax dollars, while giving away tax cuts. So far this war has cost every man, woman, and child in the US over $400 each.

Are we safer? No this administrations actions have only fanned the flames of hatred even further. Our actions in Iraq have now created at least two generations of hatred towards the US. The only ones that will love the US in Iraq are those that will get fat off of the American taxpayer.

What you are saying about Kerry can be said about Bush. Bush talked of compassion while running. His administration is nothing about compassion, except for the likes of Haliburton.

[Sayhey]

I don't respond to Voltron/Slyhunter anymore, but seeing as so many of you do and post his comments in your replies could one of you please explain to him the difference of meaning in the words "allot" and "a lot." Thank you.

[Voltron]

I don't respond to Voltron/Slyhunter anymore, but seeing as so many of you do and post his comments in your replies could one of you please explain to him the difference of meaning in the words "allot" and "a lot." Thank you.
My English teacher doesn't like me using the word "allot" because "there is no such word" and requires me to use "a lot" instead supposedly being more proper. I'm trying to get in the habit of not using "allot" because my spell checker won't remind me in this case.

[Neserk]

My English teacher doesn't like me using the word "allot" because "there is no such word" and requires me to use "a lot" instead supposedly being more proper. I'm trying to get in the habit of not using "allot" because my spell checker won't remind me in this case.


My high school ENglish teacher would automatically give us a D if we said " a lot" and an F if we used "alot/allot"

[Neserk]

I don't respond to Voltron/Slyhunter anymore, but seeing as so many of you do and post his comments in your replies could one of you please explain to him the difference of meaning in the words "allot" and "a lot." Thank you.


I'll pass him a note in Gym class :p

[skunk]

I'm trying to get in the habit of not using "allot" because my spell checker won't remind me in this case.
That's because "allot" IS a word. It just doesn't mean "a lot". :rolleyes:
And BTW, "your" is not short for "you are"...

[Neserk]

Yet your willing to replace him with Kerry.[IMG]


Yup. I"d like the constitution restored, thank you. We know not only that Bush WON"T do that but that he his likely to further tear it apart.

[Sayhey]

I'll pass him a note in Gym class :p

Thank you. :p

[Neserk]

Thank you. :p

No problem. Any thing esle? Do you want me to find out if S.C. is going to the dance tonight?

[zimv20]

It only goes to show that we should not pass laws in haste.

and w/o reading them

[Sayhey]

No problem. Any thing esle? Do you want me to find out if S.C. is going to the dance tonight?

No, but I want to know why nobody informs ME about these dances! :eek: :p

Say, is it getting a little juvenile in here? :D

[Neserk]

No, but I want to know why nobody informs ME about these dances! :eek: :p

Say, is it getting a little juvenile in here? :D

Well, now that you know.... ;)

A little juvenile :p But it is okay to let loose once in a while and let your inner teenager come out!

I do it more than the average poster here because (a) I can, and (b) I spend a lot of time with children so it just kind of happens. :D

[Voltron]

That's because "allot" IS a word. It just doesn't mean "a lot". :rolleyes:
And BTW, "your" is not short for "you are"...
Next you are going to tell me "Um" aint a word.http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/new_sleeping.gif

[Neserk]

That's because "allot" IS a word. It just doesn't mean "a lot". :rolleyes:
And BTW, "your" is not short for "you are"...

One entry found for allot.


Main Entry: al·lot
Pronunciation: &-'lät
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): al·lot·ted; al·lot·ting
Etymology: Middle English alotten, from Middle French aloter, from a- (from Latin ad-) + lot, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English hlot lot
1 : to assign as a share or portion <allot 10 minutes for the speech>
2 : to distribute by or as if by lot <allot seats to the press>
- al·lot·ter noun


learn something new every day. I guess I knew it but didn't connect the spellings...

[skunk]

One entry found for allot.


Main Entry: al·lot
Pronunciation: &-'lät
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): al·lot·ted; al·lot·ting
Etymology: Middle English alotten, from Middle French aloter, from a- (from Latin ad-) + lot, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English hlot lot
1 : to assign as a share or portion <allot 10 minutes for the speech>
2 : to distribute by or as if by lot <allot seats to the press>
- al·lot·ter noun

That's the one
:D

[Chip NoVaMac]

One entry found for allot.


Main Entry: al·lot
Pronunciation: &-'lät
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): al·lot·ted; al·lot·ting
Etymology: Middle English alotten, from Middle French aloter, from a- (from Latin ad-) + lot, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English hlot lot
1 : to assign as a share or portion <allot 10 minutes for the speech>
2 : to distribute by or as if by lot <allot seats to the press>
- al·lot·ter noun


learn something new every day. I guess I knew it but didn't connect the spellings...

The things we learn here on Mac Rumors... :)