Paul Johnson - American hostage - murdered

[2jaded2care]

Not that anyone really cares, except insofar as they might be able to use this to condemn Bush... Heaven knows Michael Moore is much more important than some contractor.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

Sorry, I am very angry right now.

My prayers are with his family.

[zimv20]

Not that anyone really cares, except insofar as they might be able to use this to condemn Bush...
iow, bush supporters feel more of a sense of loss?

[PalmHarborTchr]

clearly, the terrorist do not fear G.W. Bush or they would not have

beheaded this second American. I am sure the terrorists want

G.W. to get 4 more years.......they have been very sucessful

with him at the helm of state and they don't want to change

their good luck. Bush and company have very poor judgement

and this loss is yet another example of this.[SIZE=7][COLOR=Red]

[Lyle]

Not that anyone really cares, except insofar as they might be able to use this to condemn Bush... Heaven knows Michael Moore is much more important than some contractor.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

Sorry, I am very angry right now.

My prayers are with his family.

The only thing that could possibly be worse than another American hostage being beheaded would be to learn that an Iraqi prisoner was forced to wear a dog collar, or was otherwise humiliated. No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.

[skunk]

The only thing that could possibly be worse than another American hostage being beheaded would be to learn that an Iraqi prisoner was forced to wear a dog collar, or was otherwise humiliated. No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.
Seems fair to me. We don't hear ANYTHING about most of the Iraqis who are shot up. It's lousy luck for Johnson, of course, but if you sow the wind...

[2jaded2care]

I did say "anyone", not "Dems".

And I think PalmHarborTchr'r response supports my thesis.

[skunk]

I did say "anyone", not "Dems".

And I think PalmHarborTchr'r response supports my thesis.
Thesis? I see no thesis. :confused:

[IJ Reilly]

And I think PalmHarborTchr'r response supports my thesis.

Which was? (Sorry, I didn't pick up on any "thesis" here, just a distasteful implication.)

[skunk]

Which was? (Sorry, I didn't pick up on any "thesis" here, just a distasteful implication.)
Snap! :D

[PalmHarborTchr]

The only thing that could possibly be worse than another American hostage being beheaded would be to learn that an Iraqi prisoner was forced to wear a dog collar, or was otherwise humiliated. No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.

Well, you are wrong about a blip on the radar as CNN, FoxHole News et
al are covering this big time. Keep in mind that the Saudi govt. does
beheadings every Friday morning and has done this for years. To these
guys beheadings are standard operating proceedure. Clearly they are
not afraid of Bush and Chaney...not one bit. There is a 30% unemployment
rate in Saudi Arabia...they should have been training their own people
to maintain helos, oil rigs etc instead of importing labor from the US,
India, England etc.

[skunk]

Keep in mind that the Saudi govt. does
beheadings every Friday morning and has done this for years. To these
guys beheadings are standard operating procedure.
Good point.

[Neserk]

That is sad. :(

[Frohickey]

The only thing that could possibly be worse than another American hostage being beheaded would be to learn that an Iraqi prisoner was forced to wear a dog collar, or was otherwise humiliated. No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.

How come the Nick Berg beheading video was not shown as prominently as the AbuGharib prison photos?

The only reason the media's radar screen blipped for a beheading was because Daniel Pearl was one of them.

Prayers for the family of Paul Johnson. :(

May the murderers of Paul Johnson get to meet Allah, post haste. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Frohickey]

Well, you are wrong about a blip on the radar as CNN, FoxHole News et
al are covering this big time. Keep in mind that the Saudi govt. does
beheadings every Friday morning and has done this for years. To these
guys beheadings are standard operating proceedure. Clearly they are
not afraid of Bush and Chaney...not one bit. There is a 30% unemployment
rate in Saudi Arabia...they should have been training their own people
to maintain helos, oil rigs etc instead of importing labor from the US,
India, England etc.

Maybe, if their own people can maintain helos, oil rigs, etc, more economically than importing labor from abroad, they would have done so by now.

Local labor is almost always, Ivory-99.9%, cheaper than labor that you had to import. But its not 'cheap' if you are not getting the results that you expect.

[Frohickey]

Good point.

Good point? The Saudi beheadings are done by government after the condemned has been convicted. In these cases, the beheadings are done against criminals.

What was Paul Johnson convicted of?

[Neserk]

May the murderers of Paul Johnson get to meet Allah, post haste. :mad: :mad: :mad:

That makes you no better than them, in my book!

[zimv20]

How come the Nick Berg beheading video was not shown as prominently as the AbuGharib prison photos?

politics aside, you're talking about still photos (and not all of them, only the more tame ones) vs. a video of a beheading. there is a difference.

[IJ Reilly]

Once again, it's all about the pictures.

Where is the "sigh face"? We need a "sigh face."

[Stelliform]

....

[skunk]

Good point? The Saudi beheadings are done by government after the condemned has been convicted. In these cases, the beheadings are done against criminals.

What was Paul Johnson convicted of?
Being an infidel, defiling the land of the two shrines, aiding and abetting other infidels in despoiling Muslim lands of their resources - you name it.

[Frohickey]

That makes you no better than them, in my book!

Better than who?
Justice for Paul Johnson indicates that these murderers should get their just punishment.
Worm food is a good start.

[skunk]

Better than who?
Justice for Paul Johnson indicates that these murderers should get their just punishment.

They just did.

[PalmHarborTchr]

Just saw Bush talk about the beheading on FoxHole News..........Bush

got the guy's name wrong and only used a first name. This guy can't

do the most simple things like remembering a victim's name.

Four more years of this dummy???? :eek:

[Neserk]

Better than who?
Justice for Paul Johnson indicates that these murderers should get their just punishment.
Worm food is a good start.

murder, murder, murder. Killing someone for killing someone is revenge, not justice. It makes you just as bad as the person was for the original murder.

[Dippo]

Just saw Bush talk about the beheading on FoxHole News..........Bush

got the guy's name wrong and only used a first name. This guy can't

do the most simple things like remembering a victim's name.

Four more years of this dummy???? :eek:


Did you even bother to watch the video?
Bush clearly called him "Paul Johnson".
This is a place for facts, and not lies.

I don't even understand how this is a political issue. There are groups of radical thugs out there that want to murder both you and me, and all you can do is use Paul's murder as a reason to condem Bush...

[Neserk]

I don't even understand how this is a political issue. There are groups of radical thugs out there that want to murder both you and me, and all you can do is use Paul's murder as a reason to condem Bush...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

Did you even bother to watch the video?
Bush clearly called him "Paul Johnson".

i saw a clip where bush used his first name only. if he hesitated because he forgot his surname, it was brief.

[Sayhey]

There seems to me to be at least three intertwined but separate issues here. First, the horrible tragedy of the death of a man for no other reason than his nationality. Everyone, other than religious fanatics, must view this act with a profound sense of horror. There should be no attempts to use this death for partisan political purposes on the part of everyone who opposes the vision of the world and the tactics of al Qaeda and its allies. I'm sure all of us feel the same revulsion of the act and the same sympathy for the family of Mr. Johnson. Politically, we can all agree people who commit crimes like these must be held responsible. We are not going to invade Saudi Arabia (even the most ardent neocon is not going there), but we can participate in the investigation of this murder and send what police forces, if any, that can help provide support for the Saudi police forces. This is a short term tactic, but a necessary one.

Second, this crime as part of a continuing and increasing cycle of violence in Saudi Arabia should force us to reevaluate the decades old relationship of our nation to the House of Saud. We have been reduced to hoping and praying that the corrupt and despicable regime will hang on in the face of attacks from even more despicable forces. It is time to begin to support forces within Saudi society that wish for a better future and who can bring their country into the modern world. That does not mean the use of force in the same vein as Iraq. It does mean helping educate and employ some of the huge numbers of unemployed in Saudi Arabia. It does mean trying to develop a better understanding of the culture we are dealing with. It does mean discussions with and material support for folks who have a different vision than a theocracy for the Arabian peninsula.

Lastly, it means working for a day when Saudi oil fields don't play the crucial role they do today for almost every modern industrialized society. We cannot continue with an energy policy that drinks oil like a drunken sailor.

Are these last two points political? Undoubtedly. But instead of placing this tragic act in the context of blatant partisan politics, it would be better to look at the underlying changes we must make. The degree by which Kerry or Bush deals with these concerns can then be judged without waving the bloody shirt.

[benguru]

No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.
I'm just wondering if the media continued covering it, would've they of included Nick Berg's fathers letter? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1221644,00.html) Or if they did that would it just be more attacking Bush?

[Sayhey]

This idea that the media somehow did not give coverage to the murder of Berg or now Johnson is amazing to me. I watch the news and this is headlines everywhere that I see (and believe me I look at a lot more sources than most Americans.) What are people reading or watching that they think that either of these acts (you can add Pearl's murder as well) were not covered and covered extensively. It looks to me like this perception is fueled by the need to not look at other news, specifically the daily bombings in Iraq and the scandal around torture by US forces. I just don't understand how folks can wish these other on going stories should not be covered.

I have a challenge for those who think this is not being covered. Go to every major news site on the internet and see which ones are not covering the story. What I see in places like CNN, SFGate, LATimes, NYTimes, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, Boston Globe, BBC, etc. is top of the page - number one or number two coverage. So kindly, show me how this story is being ignored.

[IJ Reilly]

The right wing seems to be living in a totally synthetic fantasy world these days, the real one being so unappealing. That's the only explanation I can offer.

But the real elephant in the room is the question of why, prior to the last couple of months, no American had ever been beheaded in the Middle East. When exactly did this new trend begin? Dare we ask ourselves why nobody in the media is talking about that?

Another question the media doesn't seem to have much appetite for posing is what the radicals in Saudi Arabia are trying to accomplish, and how US actions over the last year or so might have contributed to their newfound determination. Have we thought at all about what happens if they succeed in overthrowing the House of Saud?

Yes, I can see why a nicely constructed fantasy world might seem like a nice place to live at the moment.

[Stelliform]

.....

[IJ Reilly]

You've got a point, but the Pearl murder occurred just a few months after the invasion of Afghanistan. My point being, US actions have consequences. We can't pretend that these sorts of incidents are unconnected with our military involvement in the Middle East.

[Sayhey]

Why was Daniel Pearl beheaded in Pakistan in 2002?

Your correction doesn't deal with the underlying questions. Why has every American in Islamic countries become a target for assassination? Is this just the spreading of one organization, al Qaeda? If so how has our policy, which was supposed to eliminate this organization, failed to stop the spread? If this is a growing perception of the population of Islamic nations, how have we so stupidly aided this idea? Answers to all of them are complex, but at the core of all of them is the bungled and insane policy of preemptive invasion of an Islamic nation.

[Stelliform]

....

[zimv20]

My personal opinion is the attacks are due to the facts that...
A. it is an election year and public opinion against Bush would be really helpful for them now.
B. U.S. frustration at the war is growing, so they hope that these barbaric murders will turn public opinion farther away from the war on Terrorists.
i agree w/ your implication that many of these moves are calculated, but i don't think it's w/ the goal of getting bush out of office. rather, i think the goal is to continue to make the US overreact (e.g. the siege of fallujah in response to the killing of the contractors) in order to continue to inflame hatred of the US among the moderates in the middle east.

the end result to be a populist fundamentalist uprising against the house of saud, for one, and continued resistance in iraq.

[Lyle]

Well, you are wrong about a blip on the radar as CNN, FoxHole News et al are covering this big time.Yes, since news of the beheading came in on Friday there has been news coverage of it. So that's what, a day and a half? Check back with me in a week or so and let's see if anyone is still talking about it.

Nick Berg was murdered just about a month ago now. To be sure, there was a lot of news coverage for a week or so after, but you're not going to hear any more about what happened to him. But I can assure you that you're going to continue to hear about Abu Ghraib for a long, long time.

[Lyle]

The only thing that could possibly be worse than another American hostage being beheaded would be to learn that an Iraqi prisoner was forced to wear a dog collar, or was otherwise humiliated. No, I'm guessing that Paul Johnson will be no more of a blip on the media's radar screen that Nick Berg was.How come the Nick Berg beheading video was not shown as prominently as the AbuGharib prison photos?

The only reason the media's radar screen blipped for a beheading was because Daniel Pearl was one of them.Frohickey, it's not clear from your response, but I think you may have missed the implied "sarcasm" and "bitterness" tags around my previous post.

It disgusts me that, for the most part, the national media was and continues to be obsessed with prisoner abuses at Abu Ghraib while shrugging off the murders of American citizens like Nick Berg and Paul Johnson. My prayers also go out to Paul Johnson's family.

[Lyle]

There seems to me to be at least three intertwined but separate issues here...I have nothing to add, Sayhey, just wanted to say, "Well said." ;)

[Sayhey]

Yes, since news of the beheading came in on Friday there has been news coverage of it. So that's what, a day and a half? Check back with me in a week or so and let's see if anyone is still talking about it.

Nick Berg was murdered just about a month ago now. To be sure, there was a lot of news coverage for a week or so after, but you're not going to hear any more about what happened to him. But I can assure you that you're going to continue to hear about Abu Ghraib for a long, long time.

The revelations about Abu Ghraib are a on going story because new developments are discovered and reported on, including the important question of just how high up the responsibility for this goes. Is that not a story that should be covered?

Nick Berg's murder was big news and will be again if there are new developments in the story. Do you think that if the killers were found there wouldn't be front page headlines?

This playing one story off the other is just another way of trying to downplay the importance of coverage of Abu Ghraib and other stories the administration doesn't like. This implication that somehow trying to get to the bottom of the torture scandal means ignoring the crimes of al Qaeda thugs is total bunk.

[Sayhey]

I have nothing to add, Sayhey, just wanted to say, "Well said." ;)

Thank you but I think you might want to read my response to your last post before you praise my post to highly. ;)

[Lyle]

Thank you but I think you might want to read my response to your last post before you praise my post too highly. ;)I was agreeing with one particular post of yours; it was not a blanket endorsement of all your opinions. ;)

[Sayhey]

I was agreeing with one particular post of yours; it was not a blanket endorsement of all your opinions. ;)

LOL, ok ... ok, I'll stand in the corner for letting your praise go to my head. :p

[IJ Reilly]

Of course our actions have consequences, and I agree that these murders have everything to do with the war on Iraq, but do not give the moral high ground to the terrorists. These are Terrorist attacks in response to our attacks on the Taliban and Iraq.

Nobody as far as I can tell is ceding moral high ground to the terrorists. But I do hear quite a few people claiming that the murders of Johnson and Berg justify our activities in Iraq. In fact, the President said as much the other day.

[Neserk]

Yes, since news of the beheading came in on Friday there has been news coverage of it. So that's what, a day and a half? Check back with me in a week or so and let's see if anyone is still talking about it.

Nick Berg was murdered just about a month ago now. To be sure, there was a lot of news coverage for a week or so after, but you're not going to hear any more about what happened to him. But I can assure you that you're going to continue to hear about Abu Ghraib for a long, long time.


Perhaps the powers that be want to not talk about it so much because it destroys the illusion that Iraqi's etc. want us there??

[mactastic]

How many days, let alone weeks, have been devoted to ANY Iraqi killed in this war? How many days for the soldiers killed? Most are lucky if their names are mentioned for a day or two. Yet the right wing wants to see equal time given to murdered Americans and Abu Ghraib atrocities otherwise it's more proof of the 'liberal media bias'. Give me a break, the news is bad because things are bad. You can't pin the beheading of these Americans on the higher-ups in any country, thus the lesser coverage versus an evolving and expanding story that might possible involve some high ranking military and civilian people.

This whole 'the good news coverage must equal the bad news coverage or the news is biased' thing is BS.

[zimv20]

link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_terrorism_2)


Report: Saudi Police Assisted Abduction

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Al-Qaida militants disguised in police uniforms and cars provided by sympathizers in the Saudi security forces set up a fake checkpoint to snare the American engineer they later beheaded, according to an account of the operation posted on an Islamic extremist Web site Sunday.

The account of Paul M. Johnson Jr's abduction highlighted fears that some diplomats and Westerners in the kingom have expressed, that militants have infiltrated Saudi security forces, a possibility Saudi officials have denied.

[...]

The articles in Sawt al-Jihad, or Voice of the Holy War, a semimonthly Internet periodical posted by al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, came as police continued their search for Johnson's body and the militants involved in his death.

[...]

The article said militants wearing police uniforms and using police cars set up a fake checkpoint June 12 on al-Khadma Road, leading to the airport, near Imam Mohammed bin Saud University.

"A number of the cooperators who are sincere to their religion in the security apparatus donated those clothes and the police cars. We ask God to reward them and that they use their energy to serve Islam and the mujahedeen," the article read.

When Johnson's car approached the checkpoint, the militants stopped his car, detained him, anesthetized him and carried him to another car, the article said. Earlier Saudi newspaper reports had also said Johnson was drugged during the kidnapping.

(more)

[2jaded2care]

First off, let me say that I am heartened by the recent reports of international comdemnation of the Johnson killing. It seems my original comments were off the mark.

Also, it was not my intention to slam Democrats. I can see how that might have been inferred from my comments. As I said, I was upset when I wrote them. Also, I will admit that I am not always able to foresee how my comments will be received.

By way of explanation -- I was able to imagine that some who oppose Bush and/or this administration's foreign policies might try to use this incident as "proof" that Bush is wrong. I did not imagine that some, including Bush, might try to use this incident to "justify" our actions in Iraq or anywhere. I haven't seen any reports of Bush claiming such, maybe I have just been out of the loop. Anyway, if anything, transpiring after the initial Iraq hostilities, that argument would seem a stretch at best. Personally, I think even the comments to the effect of "this reminds us of who our enemy is" are lame. As if people have forgotten, and need reminders such as this. If anyone out there does, I hope they don't have children.

My main point, poorly written, was that I suspected that this would be a non-story for everyone, except those who would try to use it as a political tool. As I said, I am encouraged that this has not proven true. Paul Johnson was just a man, a contractor in a dangerous environment, but he will be missed. Just as every soldier and civilian who has been killed will be missed by someone.

Initially I did wish the perpetrators of this crime to be hunted down and killed. However, now that this has apparently transpired, I find that I am not happy or satisfied, just sad. I am tired of all the killing, and it does not seem to want to stop. I pray for the Johnson family, but I also pray for the families of the militants. I guess that makes me a sap. Whatever.

I don't know that our policies have arguably "caused" this. I don't know what we specifically did to "cause" 9/11, the Cole bombing, etc., other than to exist and send some aid to Israel. A quick google will show that militants have been attacking tourists in Egypt since at least the early 1990s. I doubt that W caused that.

I'm sorry if Saudi Arabia has a 30% unemployment rate. I hope no one is suggesting that high unemployment is a justification for lopping people's heads off.

Hopefully I have cleared up some poor communications on my part. (BTW, my "thesis" comment was an attempt at being self-effacing. I knew that my angry comments were cryptic and unsupported.)

I hope that I can drop out of this thread now. I try to stay away, because I find it rather an exercise in futility, and only results in raising my blood pressure. No offense, but my impression is that some of you treat this political forum as an opportunity to attack and insult those who disagree with you. Can't we leave that to talk radio?... It's like I'm playing flag football, and you guys are playing rugby.

Anyway, sorry if I offended anyone.

Take care all.

[iccy82]

lets get out of saudi arabia so that the terrorists know that we are weak and that their methods of terror are working!

[3rdpath]

Initially I did wish the perpetrators of this crime to be hunted down and killed. However, now that this has apparently transpired, I find that I am not happy or satisfied, just sad. I am tired of all the killing, and it does not seem to want to stop.


well said...i'm tired of it as well.

they blast a car bomb, we rocket a house. we kill a detainee, they kill a contractor. at this point everyone is paving the road to hell and no good will come from any of it.

some seem to think there can be a winner in this insanity. don't bet on it.

[Zaid]

I don't know that our policies have arguably "caused" this. I don't know what we specifically did to "cause" 9/11, the Cole bombing, etc., other than to exist and send some aid to Israel. A quick google will show that militants have been attacking tourists in Egypt since at least the early 1990s. I doubt that W caused that.

I'm sorry if Saudi Arabia has a 30% unemployment rate. I hope no one is suggesting that high unemployment is a justification for lopping people's heads off.



Just to let you know, the revulsion to these acts is coming from all sides, including from some quite unexpected quaters.


Few people noticed the statement by two Saudi Arabian clerics denouncing attacks, on locals and Westerners alike, by Islamic militants. It came not from the usual tame clerics, but from Safar al-Hawali and Salman al-Auda, two rabble-rousing prayer leaders imprisoned several times for their hardline views.

...

Ninety per cent of the intelligence reaching Saudi counter-terror specialists, security sources say, comes from disgusted locals.

...

The attacks last March in Madrid were the most 'off-message' yet. There was no suicide element - guaranteed to inspire a grudging respect among many - and the victims were merely commuters on their way to work, symbolic of nothing other than the universal drudgery of earning a living. Even the reviled Abu Hamza told Arab reporters that the attacks were 'wrong'. The televised execution of an American citizen by an Iraqi militant group last month provoked revulsion, too. As has last week's brutal slaying of Paul Johnson. In Indonesia, Islamist parties, popular after the war in Afghanistan, have received the proverbial kicking at recent polls. The savagery of a series of local attacks has shocked the largely moderate and tolerant inhabitants of the world's biggest Muslim nation.

Terrorist strikes are only justified - in the eyes of many Muslims - if they are part of a last-ditch struggle against an aggressive West set on humiliating and dominating Islam. Our governments seem to be going out of their way to prove that this is the case. Every incident like Abu Ghraib, every dead civilian in Baghdad and every Israeli tank shell fired on the Gaza Strip makes it easier for the militants to claim convincingly that their campaign of violence, repugnant to so many, is legitimate. The al-Qaeda ideology is still flourishing and strong in many, many parts of the world.

However, though this may not be the beginning of the end of Islamic militancy, it may be the end of the beginning. We are now entering the darkest and most dangerous time, that of indiscriminate, brutal attacks with little central control or direction.

The main reason for the failure of the Islamic revolutions in Algeria and Egypt was that most people wanted nothing to do with men who mutilated and maimed innocent people. In the global context, that holds true too. It is the moderation and humanity of the vast proportion of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims - and their reaction to acts like the beheading of Johnson - that will see us through the darkness that lies ahead and take us towards an end to both terror and the war on it.




The Observer (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1243077,00.html)

As you can see, indiscriminate acts of violence against innocent people elicits revulsion from all sides.

The loss of (even begruged) popular support for al-Qaeda means is a death blow to the group. there are, however, still far too many that feel desperate enough to listen to their unislamic philosophy

[Zaid]

[2jaded2care]

So now apparently they have killed their South Korean hostage.

My prayers are with his family as well.

I keep trying to remind myself that some professed Christians kill "in the name of God" too.

I must admit I don't understand some peoples' apparent worship of murder and death. Myself, I wonder if God is at all pleased. I hope not.

[Neserk]

I must admit I don't understand some peoples' apparent worship of murder and death. Myself, I wonder if God is at all pleased. I hope not.

No, I believe she is quite fed up with the whole thing.

[skunk]

No, I believe she is quite fed up with the whole thing. :rolleyes:

[Neserk]

:rolleyes:

Are you thinking or rolling your eyes at me???

:mad: :p :D

[skunk]

Are you thinking or rolling your eyes at me???

:mad: :p :D
Appreciating the Shavian reference. :)

[Neserk]

Appreciating the Shavian reference. :)


:D :D :D I wondered if anyone would catch it ;)

Okay, so context isn't everything. I looked up "Shavian" explain, please.

[blackfox]

I cannot remember where I read this, but I do remember reading some Muslim condemnation of the beheadings by various clerics in the ME. Briefly stated, they referred to the fact that there is nothing in the Koran which states that people must be beheaded, and alternately, the Koran does say to show mercy to those proven to be "infadels" or guilty of a criminal offense. This is proven by Islamic Courts. Even if someone is guilty of murder, although they deserve death under Islamic Law, the sentance is supposed to be carried out in a more humane fashion than the offending parties' methods.

As far as an end to Islamic Terrorism/Extremism...I do not believe the end is in sight that soon. It is proven that instability/extremism and a host of other conflict-inducing behaviors are directly tied to demographics...usually when the % of the populace that is under 25 reaches above 22% or so, you can count on problems. The Muslim population has been exploding over the past decade or so, and there are a lot of young, unemployed, impressionable youths out there (men)...conflicts/instabilities such as the Iranian Revolution, Bosnia and a host of others correspond with these demographic shifts...The Muslim demographics should somewhat stabilize and decline by 2008-2010, but will not truly be aged (demographically) till near 2030.

[skunk]

:D :D :D I wondered if anyone would catch it ;)

Okay, so context isn't everything. I looked up "Shavian" explain, please.
"A Black Woman in search of Her God" by George Bernard Shaw.

[mactastic]

So when a SK guy gets beheaded it doesn't even deserve it's own thread? I thought all you right-wingers wanted to see equal coverage of these beheadings versus the Abu Ghraib scandal, yet when it comes down to it that's just hot air to make your case with. I guess if it's not an American things are hunky-dory huh? :rolleyes:

[Frohickey]

It is proven that instability/extremism and a host of other conflict-inducing behaviors are directly tied to demographics...usually when the % of the populace that is under 25 reaches above 22% or so, you can count on problems. The Muslim population has been exploding over the past decade or so, and there are a lot of young, unemployed, impressionable youths out there (men)...conflicts/instabilities such as the Iranian Revolution, Bosnia and a host of others correspond with these demographic shifts...The Muslim demographics should somewhat stabilize and decline by 2008-2010, but will not truly be aged (demographically) till near 2030.

Hmm... Are you saying that we ought to get involved in a regional war so that we can trim the under 25 population group to less than 22%?!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh wait, we already are.

[blackfox]

Hmm... Are you saying that we ought to get involved in a regional war so that we can trim the under 25 population group to less than 22%?!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh wait, we already are.
The total Muslim population is 1.2 billion (including minority poulations in a myriad of countries, including 100 million in India). Iraq itself, a country of about 24 million has 40.7% of it's population under 14 (2003). That is a huge amount to "trim"...coupled with a 2.5 - 3.5% population growth rate annually, in Iraq alone, that would be 500,000 "trimmed" to break even, about 6 million to get below 22% :eek:

[Frohickey]

The total Muslim population is 1.2 billion (including minority poulations in a myriad of countries, including 100 million in India). Iraq itself, a country of about 24 million has 40.7% of it's population under 14 (2003). That is a huge amount to "trim"...coupled with a 2.5 - 3.5% population growth rate annually, in Iraq alone, that would be 500,000 "trimmed" to break even, about 6 million to get below 22% :eek:

We need to bomb them with Sony Playstations and Microsoft X-Boxen. :D