Problems with using the iPod as a Hard Drive

[King Cobra]

Recently I have been using my iPod not only as an mp3 player, but also as a portable Hard Drive. I copy files fine, but I can’t transfer some of them to my computer (either Cube or Firewire iBook). Sometimes I’ll get an error -36 message, saying that some of the data could not be read or written following a one minute wait for the file to be attempted to transfer, which it doesn’t. I keep both the firewire cable and the iPod perfectly still when transferring data and when copying data. This stall is extremely annoying and I want to know how to avoid it, before I go back to using only CD-RWs :eek:

iPod 5GB
iPod OS 1.1
Doesn’t matter how much hard drive space I have left

G4 Cube 500MHz
OS 10.1.5
iTunes 2.0.4

iBook 466MHz (Firewire, Graphite)
OS 10.1.5
iTunes 2.0.x

[TyleRomeo]

hmmmmmm thats disurbing

I would think the iPod wpould be a truly reliable HD source. Unfortunately I don't have my Pod yet (waiting for the 40GB) but i'm sure some of the other guys in here can help you out, c'mon guys.

[AlphaTech]

Error type -36 is a "File System Errors" or an I/O error. Does it only happen within OS X, or does it do it from 9 as well?? Is it just on one of the systems, or from both?? When was the last time you did some maintenance on those puppies???

Well queenie??? :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :cool:

[King Cobra]

I haven't EVER used OS 9 with the iPod, so I have no idea what that would be like. I have the CD software for the iPod drivers, if I need to install iPod for OS 9.

When I copy information from the Cube to the iPod to the iBook, I get the same errors as when I transfer from the iBook to the iPod to the Cube.

>maintenance
Meaning what? Doing a clean install of the OS?

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by King Cobra
When I copy information from the Cube to the iPod to the iBook, I get the same errors as when I transfer from the iBook to the iPod to the Cube.

>maintenance
Meaning what? Doing a clean install of the OS?

Maintenance as in utilities QC. :eek: Even a fsck -y might yield some answers. Try that on both computers, and iPod (if possible).

[King Cobra]

Listen, Techie. :D

I'm not that experienced as you, so...

By utilities, I assume you mean Norton. I haven't used NU before, so what do I look for? If not Norton, then what should I run?

What is fsck -y? What is that supposed to do?

How can I make it work on the iPod?

[elensil]

I have sensed a lot of arrogance around Macrumors. I wish Mac users would not only be smarter :) but also friendlier to "newbies"
or anyone who knows less then them.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by King Cobra
I'm not that experienced as you, so...

By utilities, I assume you mean Norton. I haven't used NU before, so what do I look for? If not Norton, then what should I run?

What is fsck -y? What is that supposed to do?


Okay queenie... :p :D

IF you pick up Norton, get NSW2 (it includes the latest version of NAV). If you already own NAV 7, then you should qualify for an upgrade price for NSW. Other utilities that I use are DiskWarrior 2 and TechTool Pro 3. They all have their strenghts and weeknesses... I leve NUM optimize/defrag my drives, and have the others do their things (I don't let TTP defrag, check for viruses, or compatibility since that ALWAYS comes up with things that we know work together).

For the fsck -y, boot while holding down the Apple+s keys and then type that in when you can... it does a file system check (duuhhhh :p). If it comes up with anything, run it again to make sure it actually did repair it. I would run that after you do the other utilities (if you have them).

You can also boot into the open firmware (Apple+option+o+f) and then type in "reset-all". The computer will restart right away, and come back normally. You could also zap the PRAM, to see if that helps as well. The Apple+option commands work for any OS... (9 or X).

That help you better queenie??? :eek: :eek: :p :D :cool:

Oh, and elensil, grow a thicker skin... or you will be forever cowering in the corner... :eek: :D

[elensil]

point taken

hey how many pistols you have:)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by elensil
point taken

hey how many pistols you have:)

Why do you ask???

I have more then enough magazines and ammo for what I have... :D

[King Cobra]

Apparently, at the house, we do not have the latest version of Norton. It may be a few days or even longer until my father picks it up for me, seeing as we are struggling with bills and other things. Somewhere in the house is Norton Ut. 5 and Antivirus 6. Do I need to run the latest version of the software, or would what I have do fine?

[AlphaTech]

Do NOT run those on any system with OS 9.x or higher (that includes OS X ya freak :eek: ).

Make the man purchase the latest versions, ASAP. You can actually order direct from Symantec, AND get it at the update price (without having to deal with mail in rebates). Run them off the cd, do NOT install anything except for NAV onto the systems.

Get it? Got it? good...

[King Cobra]

Roger, Techie. :D

I should get back to you and anyone else who has some advice in a few days, that is, after I get both computers defragged and all the little fsck -y stuff. :cool:

[AlphaTech]

You can run the fsck -y now, and then again after you run the other utilities. It might only need that, so it's worth a shot before you shell out the cash in a rush to get NSW2.

Also, reset the firmware, and zap your pram, Bubba... :D

BTW, how are your crabs doing??? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :p :D

[chewbaccapits]

TyleRomeo had the best comment in here...helped out alot.

[King Cobra]

chewbacca, I suppose you could have done worse...err...better! :eek: :D

For all you literal people, I realize it hasn't been a few days yet, so don't bother pointing that out. :)

All right. I tried everything except the Norton stuff, and I have gotton the same errors. However, my father says he doesn't have the money to get me SystemWorks. And, since we're going back to Maine later in the month for vacation and house work (in Sweden), he may not be able to pick me up a copy until August or September. Once I get it, though, I'll let you know if it helped any.

[Beej]

Can the iPod boot in Traget Disk Mode? If it can, have you tried that? You will need to install a basic system on it. Just the core OS 9 will work.

[King Cobra]

How do I use OS 9 on the iPod to help transfer files that the iPod OS 1.1 couldn't do? Would OS 9 interfere with the iPod OS? How does target disk mode work? How do I find out if it works or not?

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by TyleRomeo
hmmmmmm thats disurbing

I would think the iPod wpould be a truly reliable HD source. Unfortunately I don't have my Pod yet (waiting for the 40GB) but i'm sure some of the other guys in here can help you out, c'mon guys.

iPod... 8000 songs in your pocket
:rolleyes:

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


iPod... 8000 songs in your pocket
:rolleyes:

Who the **** needs that many songs in their pocket at a time??? You won't be able to listen to that much before needing to recharge it (too many times to even think about), as well as go for that hearing aid. :eek: :eek:

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Who the **** needs that many songs in their pocket at a time??? You won't be able to listen to that much before needing to recharge it (too many times to even think about), as well as go for that hearing aid. :eek: :eek:

So true... I have to admit, though, that I understand that TyleRomeo might want 40Gb for HDD room and only a few gig for music.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
So true... I have to admit, though, that I understand that TyleRomeo might want 40Gb for HDD room and only a few gig for music.

Then he should get an iPod in the size that he wants for music, and an external hard drive for storage. I have the 5GB iPod for music, and external firewire hard drives for storage (three of them so far). That way, I plug whichever one I need to access into the computer when I need to. I can chain them, so that I can have all three hard drives, and the iPod connected if I want to. I also have a firewire cdrw drive, which is great for burning since it is a 24x (~3 minute 700MB burns).

[King Cobra]

All right. I have tried running Norton AV and DD (Disk Doctor) from SystemWorks 2 on both my Cube and the iBook I have, then I ran all the fsck -y etc. stuff on both computers after they were checked and I keep getting the same error, -36.

Should I scan the iPod with Norton, or is there something better I should do?

[pianojoe]

Originally posted by Beej
Can the iPod boot in Traget Disk Mode? If it can, have you tried that? You will need to install a basic system on it. Just the core OS 9 will work.

This is nonsense. A computer or laptop can boot in target disk mode, thus impersonating an external firewire hard drive. But the iPod IS an external firewire hard drive!

You can not install OS 9 on an iPod and then make the iPod boot into OS 9, simply because the iPod is not a Macintosh computer. The iPod has a dedicated OS.

[Beej]

Originally posted by pianojoe
You can not install OS 9 on an iPod and then make the iPod boot into OS 9, simply because the iPod is not a Macintosh computer. The iPod has a dedicated OS. Heh... you're right. I wasn't thinking straight. :)

[AlphaTech]

Just for S&G's have you tried cleaning everything off of the iPod and putting it back on???

BTW, I have attached a picture of what the -36 error means... looks like it's the iPod, not the computers. You should try to run the utilities on the iPod if you haven't already.

[King Cobra]

I can't remove everything from the iPod. I have an Appleworks folder, with just the Application inside of it visible. When I try to empty the trash with the folder inside I got error messages, saying that the following are locked: Appleworks 6, Clippings, Starting Points, Appleworks Essentials. But I can't find those files anywhere in the folder.

Is there an easy way to wipe out the iPod Hard Drive?

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
I can't remove everything from the iPod. I have an Appleworks folder, with just the Application inside of it visible. When I try to empty the trash with the folder inside I got error messages, saying that the following are locked: Appleworks 6, Clippings, Starting Points, Appleworks Essentials. But I can't find those files anywhere in the folder.

Is there an easy way to wipe out the iPod Hard Drive?

Remember, your terminal is your best friend.

Open terminal

Type "su" - many people say to always use sudo but I just make sure I close the terminal when I have finished administration

Type in root password

Type "cd /Volumes/"iPod HDD"" where "iPod HDD" is the actual name of the hard drive and is in inverted commas if there is a space in the name.

Type "rm -r *"

Close your terminal window


This will wipe EVERYTHING on the drive

[AlphaTech]

I had a feeling someone with more terminal knowledge would put up an answer to that. I really didn't want to try and wipe my own iPod just to see if it would work.

Would the Disk Utility (from the Applications/Utilities folder) also wipe the iPod and make it usable? I don't want to do this to my own iPod, since I have tunes on it (about 3.7GB worth).

[King Cobra]

>Type "cd /Volumes/"iPod HDD"" where "iPod HDD" is the actual name of the hard drive and is in inverted commas if there is a space in the name.

You lost me right there. I know absolutely nothing about Terminal commands or such. What is an inverted comma? (The name of the iPod would be -KC iPod- (no hyphens) how would that look?)

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
>Type "cd /Volumes/"iPod HDD"" where "iPod HDD" is the actual name of the hard drive and is in inverted commas if there is a space in the name.

You lost me right there. I know absolutely nothing about Terminal commands or such. What is an inverted comma? (The name of the iPod would be -KC iPod- (no hyphens) how would that look?)

There 2 ways I know of to deal with spaces, one is with inverted commas - "" - and the other is with a backslash before the space - \ -. I prefer inverted commas because it does not matter how many spaces are inbetween them, it works where are you have to have a backslash for every space. It is personal choice, really.

cd /Volumes/"KC iPod"

If you have trouble, take the extra steps.

cd /Volumes
cd "KC iPod"

If you need it, you can also check to see what is in the directory you are in by typing "ls"

I have NEVER looked at an iPod to see what you are going to erase. Do an "ls" before you do the "rm -r *" and make sure your music is not in there.

If the music is in there, you are best to delete the folders individually using "rm -r foldername"

[King Cobra]

Well, I have removed EVERYTHING from the iPod. Alpha, your suggestion of Disk Utility keeps the iPod OS as is, but wipes out everything else. timallen, I appreciate the suggestions, but I am Darwin-illiterate. I just had to unplug and plug in the iPod disk (after dragging the icon to the trash) to have the device be recognized as an iPod. Right now I am transferring the files from the Cube to the iBook and if the iBook reads all the files then you guys can put away this thread. If not, then... :(

[AlphaTech]

Hey Queenie, are you using the iPod to transfer the files???

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
I appreciate the suggestions, but I am Darwin-illiterate.

I VERY much know that feeling.... I would not dare claim to be any good at command line I just know all the stuff I need to get by since I hate logging out and back in as root.

What makes logging in as root more tedious for me is that I never leave my login page with the text fields for security reasons, I always have the pretty icons to click on. To get to the point, I have to go to the Login Pane and switch to text fields, log out, log in, make changes, log out, log in and change Login pane again.

Having that basic terminal knowledge makes life SO much easier.

[King Cobra]

Yeah, Techie, files. I use it as a Hard Drive as well. I transfer Movie files, mp3s, documents, lots of stuff. I need to, since CDs take forever and get too much for me for 5Gb of data.

Well, I just wiped the iPod OS and tried again, I got the same error! What is going on here?

[AlphaTech]

I have to confirm... does that iPod of yours have the very latest software and such installed?? Have you tried moving small batches of files (less MB at a time)?? Does it give the error on a specific file type or set of files??

I've never used my iPod as a hard drive to transfer files. Mainly because I have enough external firewire hard drives to do that with. If you will be moving files between the systems often, you might want to invest in either an Ethernet crossover line, or use the firewire target disk mode on one of the systems.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Yeah, Techie, files. I use it as a Hard Drive as well. I transfer Movie files, mp3s, documents, lots of stuff. I need to, since CDs take forever and get too much for me for 5Gb of data.

Well, I just wiped the iPod OS and tried again, I got the same error! What is going on here?

I don't suppose you can try something for me? I know you are not terminal savvy but it might just work as a temp solution until someone comes out with the perminant one.

cd /Volumes/"KC iPod"
cp -r * /

if you get an IO error, retype:

cp -r * /



This is similar to what I do with my iDisk because it is SO much faster to search and copy to/from your iDisk via terminal than using a GUI and I regularly get errors but if I try again it works.

Update: sorry, forgot to mention, this will copy the contents of your iPod to the root folder. If you would like to move instead of copy, use "mv" where I wrote "cp"

[King Cobra]

Yes. I have iPod OS 1.1, which should be the latest.

As for file transfer, I copy folders at GB at a time, up to 2.xGB folders. If that's a big problem, I can cut it down. Would you know to how much you would recommend?

How does firewire target disk mode work, in general and in copying/transferring files?

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Yes. I have iPod OS 1.1, which should be the latest.

As for file transfer, I copy folders at GB at a time, up to 2.xGB folders. If that's a big problem, I can cut it down. Would you know to how much you would recommend?

How does firewire target disk mode work, in general and in copying/transferring files?

I'd say cut it down to 500MB or less at a time.

As for the firewire target disk mode,check out this (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58583&SaveKCWindowURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePage&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&showButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=true&sessionID=anonymous|139158083) article on Apple's support site. It outlines everything for you.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Yes. I have iPod OS 1.1, which should be the latest.

As for file transfer, I copy folders at GB at a time, up to 2.xGB folders. If that's a big problem, I can cut it down. Would you know to how much you would recommend?

How does firewire target disk mode work, in general and in copying/transferring files?

I do not understand the benifit to you in this situation using target disk. By holding down "t" on start up your computer acts as a Firewire HDD for other computers.

[King Cobra]

(>cd /Volumes/"KC iPod"
cp -r * /

if you get an IO error, retype:

cp -r * /)

Nope. I didn't get that error.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by King Cobra
(>cd /Volumes/"KC iPod"
cp -r * /

if you get an IO error, retype:

cp -r * /)

Nope. I didn't get that error.

So everything copied over then?!?!?!?

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


I do not understand the benifit to you in this situation using target disk. By holding down "t" on start up your computer acts as a Firewire HDD for other computers.

Target disk mode would eliminate the need to use the iPod to transfer large files.

The ethernet crossover cable would also eliminate the need to use the iPod to transfer files. It would give you 100Mbps transfers, and all it requires you to do is turn on Appletalk on both systems and set one as the shared drive/folder.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Target disk mode would eliminate the need to use the iPod to transfer large files.

The ethernet crossover cable would also eliminate the need to use the iPod to transfer files. It would give you 100Mbps transfers, and all it requires you to do is turn on Appletalk on both systems and set one as the shared drive/folder.

Oh dear, Kobra, don't you even have a cross over cable????

[King Cobra]

>Oh dear, [C]obra, don't you even have a cross over cable????

I'm afraid not. But my father might get one later.

I may be making this sound urgent since my family and I are going back to Maine for a LONG while and I don't want my iPod to have ruined files like this. I'm working on the bit by bit data transfer. I just need a few here.

[AlphaTech]

Hey Queenie, use the firewire target disk mode to move the files... Since you already have the firewire cable (use the one that came with your iPod :rolleyes: ) you don't need to pick up anything.

Do you guys happen to have any kind of networking hardware down there in nj??

[King Cobra]

I'm not too sure on networking in the area, and I don't plan to find out until at least September, as we are going to Maine today.

Well, the Firewire Target Disk Mode worked much easier than the iPod transfer. I guess the Hard Drive portion of the iPod wasn't meant to be. But I'll certainly use it for my mp3s and whatever other ***** I want to show off. :cool:

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Queen Cobra
and whatever other ***** I want to show off. :cool:

I thougth only monkeys liked to show their sheit... or is that throw it??? :eek: :eek: :D

So the target disk mode was far easier then you thought it would be, imagine that. :rolleyes: :eek: :D :p

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


I thougth only monkeys liked to show their sheit... or is that throw it??? :eek: :eek: :D

So the target disk mode was far easier then you thought it would be, imagine that. :rolleyes: :eek: :D :p

And from my experience it is nice and fast and good for copying system files. Fast of course because the top speed I can usually get ethernet to is 100Mb vs. 400Mb. If I can get the ethernet to 1000Mb, however, I go with it unless I want to copy system files.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
If I can get the ethernet to 1000Mb, however, I go with it unless I want to copy system files.

The ONLY way you can do that between two systems is with a gigabit ethernet/network switch. A crossover cable will NOT allow you to go at Gb speeds between them.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


The ONLY way you can do that between two systems is with a gigabit ethernet/network switch. A crossover cable will NOT allow you to go at Gb speeds between them.

Like I said, IF I can get to 1000Mb.

I never found out why that is, though... any ideas?

There is no difference in the cable, is there, apart from the obvious fact that the cables are opposite on one side to the other on a cross over.

Update: Gigabit also does not seem to be able to scale as well, is this true?

[AlphaTech]

Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs of the Cat 5e/6 cable. A crossover cable swaps one pair for another at one of the ends (hence the term, crossover :rolleyes: ). Because of that, even on systems capable of Gb ethernet, you will only see 100Mbps when using a crossover cable between them. IF you get a gigabit switch, then you will get Gb speeds. This is because the switch makes the transition on all four pairs of wire internally.

Get it?? Got it??? Gooooooood. :p :D

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs of the Cat 5e/6 cable. A crossover cable swaps one pair for another at one of the ends (hence the term, crossover :rolleyes: ). Because of that, even on systems capable of Gb ethernet, you will only see 100Mbps when using a crossover cable between them. IF you get a gigabit switch, then you will get Gb speeds. This is because the switch makes the transition on all four pairs of wire internally.

Get it?? Got it??? Gooooooood. :p :D

Well explained, thank you

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs of the Cat 5e/6 cable. A crossover cable swaps one pair for another at one of the ends (hence the term, crossover :rolleyes: ). Because of that, even on systems capable of Gb ethernet, you will only see 100Mbps when using a crossover cable between them. IF you get a gigabit switch, then you will get Gb speeds. This is because the switch makes the transition on all four pairs of wire internally.

Get it?? Got it??? Gooooooood. :p :D

I did a little research into this and you DO NOT need a switch to get gigabit speeds.... if you use a regular ethernet cable of at least Cat5 standard (not a cross over as previously discussed) you will get gigabit speeds. I am told that the Gb standard was made to suppose this unlike the slower standards.