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View Full Version : ALK Copilot for North America is OUT!! YES!




tivoboy
Aug 14, 2009, 12:15 AM
Sweet, I have been waiting to give this a try.

Now available on itunes/app store with North America maps.

And only 34.99$ Nice, I wonder if this is a promo. I'll take it though.



Pika
Aug 14, 2009, 12:20 AM
I prefer Navigon.

ddrueckhammer
Aug 14, 2009, 12:28 AM
Wow that is a really really compelling price.

Too bad I have read it isn't as good as Navigon or iGo MyWay...

For those of you who pick it up. Is this true?

If so, I think a couple of updates might make it a real contender anyway.

Rayfire
Aug 14, 2009, 12:56 AM
OMMMG!! Another contender! I was about to purchase Navigon tonight till I saw this! No reviews yet, but the price is really competitive :p I wonder how this goes with respect to the other TBT apps, so far high-par based on the reviews. Someone please do a review, it's now tougher to decide what to get.

Update: What's the use of the CoPilot Central? Is that software really needed to activate the app? Somehow their User Guide doesn't include the iPhone version, only for Windows Mobile Phones or an Android.

Phil Lee
Aug 14, 2009, 04:06 AM
Update: What's the use of the CoPilot Central? Is that software really needed to activate the app? Somehow their User Guide doesn't include the iPhone version, only for Windows Mobile Phones or an Android.

CoPilot Central is not used by the iPhone version of the app. It only applies to the Windows Mobile version. The user manual is generic for all versions of CoPilot which is why it's mentioned.

Rayfire
Aug 14, 2009, 04:11 AM
CoPilot Central is not used by the iPhone version of the app. It only applies to the Windows Mobile version. The user manual is generic for all versions of CoPilot which is why it's mentioned.

Ahh I see. Somehow got confused since there were parts saying you could update easily your maps using central blah blah..

This app really got my attention based on UI and color presentation alone. I just want to know how good it works on re-routing and how fast it picks up your location if you were interrupted by a phone call.

philgilder
Aug 14, 2009, 04:46 AM
This app really got my attention based on UI and color presentation alone.
The menus are good, but do you really prefer that UI to say, navigon?

FearlessFreep
Aug 14, 2009, 06:14 AM
Check the Co-Pilot info on the PocketGPSWorld.com chart:

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/iphone-navigation-app-comparison-xr5133.php

Are map updates going to be free or for a fee (likely)? Although the initial price is low, over the course of 12-18 months it basically evens out with something like iGo MyWay, which I like better.

EDIT: Also, can anyone confirm that it does NOT resume your destination after relaunch as the chart says? That would be a deal breaker for me. Getting a phone call or getting kicked out only to have to enter everything back in would be a huge pain.

philgilder
Aug 14, 2009, 06:50 AM
EDIT: Also, can anyone confirm that it does NOT resume your destination after relaunch as the chart says? That would be a deal breaker for me. Getting a phone call or getting kicked out only to have to enter everything back in would be a huge pain.
nope, it does not remember your route. it will after an update

m3coolpix
Aug 14, 2009, 06:53 AM
Looks interesting. I like the UI. Would definitely like to see some users post up their experiences, or if someone finds other links to reviews (iPhone version specific).

A couple of things that stand out (for me anyway) is the ability to directly enter a destination based on latitude/longitude, and the easy to read text.

One of particular interest (from reading their documentation), is the GPS signal lock time. In their CoPilot Live for iPhone - Overview & FAQ (http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/iphone/) it states that initial GPS signal lock can take up to 5 minutes....um......really....5 minutes? That's not really usable. Anyone anywhere using CoPilot Live experienced these GPS signal Lock times ?

A couple of updates could certainly make this a great buy (and will be interesting to watch how the other TBT software/hardware companies react).

Have they mentioned anything about updates and pricing? Or, maybe someone has experience with them before their iPhone app?

philgilder
Aug 14, 2009, 07:34 AM
the uk app (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=324592881&mt=8) has several reviews

fredf
Aug 14, 2009, 07:50 AM
Another exciting addition to the Navigation panoply of apps.

As I've said elsewhere, I think that within the next couple of months when all these programs have done their updates, functionality will be quite similar.

I think it comes down to the user interface, things like people saying that Navigon is too hard to read or that Copilot an iGo are too busy and video game like.
As well, the time to load and retention of GPS signal are crucial.

Anyone with comments on these two issues would be very welcome.

They are all going to be able to do the same things soon enough, but which ones are a 'joy' to use, ie: easy to read and intuitive to use?

labman
Aug 14, 2009, 08:09 AM
the uk app (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=324592881&mt=8) has several reviews


but I only see 1 review great price honestly the price GPS Apps should be $50-$60 bucks tops Tomtom i crazy imo.

philgilder
Aug 14, 2009, 08:17 AM
but I only see 1 review great price honestly the price GPS Apps should be $50-$60 bucks tops Tomtom i crazy imo.
I see over 10 pages worth of reviews?

FearlessFreep
Aug 14, 2009, 08:17 AM
I think that's one of the biggest decision points for me - which company is likely to deliver on a long-term basis. Which ones have the resources in terms of personnel, strategy, capital, etc. to actually deliver a significant product over time.

From what I've been able to find out thus far, excepting Tom Tom, Navigon is the biggest in terms of company size, followed by NavNGo (Igo) and ALK. Interesting to note, ALK (Princeton, NJ) is the only company (including Tom Tom) headquartered in the US.

Looking at the ALK website, while they use Navteq for the European maps, they have their own proprietary North American map database. I'm curious whether this is the one used in the iPhone application. They also mention that the map database is augmented by customer information from GPS trip tracks. Does this 'phone home' somehow?

FearlessFreep
Aug 14, 2009, 08:34 AM
Here is a review of the Android version of Co-Pilot North America:

http://androinica.com/2009/07/15/app-review-copilot-live-takes-android-voice-navigation-in-the-right-direction/

tivoboy
Aug 14, 2009, 08:48 AM
I think this is just going to be quite close to the Winmo versions that this company has been making for over eight years for the mobile platform. So, a recent review of one of those versions is going to be pretty good.

Historically, the "central" product and "live" product allowed one to release their location and it would be carried over the cell phones data services, so that you could allow others to VIEW your location on a map, they could send you direct messages and you could reply back. It was neat and novel, back in 2003-2004, but today I think it can be replicated.

As for paid maps, not sure if they will update or be paid. Historically, ALK updated their own maps, about once every 2 - 2.5 years or so?

Once I download, I'll do a little testing today.

diesel
Aug 14, 2009, 09:13 AM
I see over 10 pages worth of reviews?


How can you compare the two? the UK version has lane assist and reality view for highway signs whereas the US version doesn't. This is a huge difference, i wonder what else got stripped out of the US version.

FearlessFreep
Aug 14, 2009, 09:50 AM
How can you compare the two? the UK version has lane assist and reality view for highway signs whereas the US version doesn't. This is a huge difference, i wonder what else got stripped out of the US version.
Interesting - it does appear to be different. Not sure if they left that out by mistake or whether it really is not there. That would be a huge difference:

North America
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4189/img0123p.png

UK
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3240/img0124.png

diesel
Aug 14, 2009, 10:12 AM
Interesting - it does appear to be different. Not sure if they left that out by mistake or whether it really is not there. That would be a huge difference:




I doubt that it's an oversight. Even the screenshots in the app store show the lane assist/reality view for the uk version but not for the us version.

Also, another huge difference is that the UK version uses navteq maps whereas the US version uses "proprietary" maps.....i would rather go with navteq maps then some proprietary maps from a small company.

philgilder
Aug 14, 2009, 10:27 AM
Interesting - it does appear to be different. Not sure if they left that out by mistake or whether it really is not there. That would be a huge difference

Oh, sorry, i didn't realised they would leave out such a useful feature...

fhall1
Aug 14, 2009, 11:41 AM
Interesting - it does appear to be different. Not sure if they left that out by mistake or whether it really is not there. That would be a huge difference:

North America
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4189/img0123p.png

UK
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3240/img0124.png

Most likely because that's a feature of the maps database and their "proprietary" NA maps probably don't contain the necessary data.

FearlessFreep
Aug 14, 2009, 11:45 AM
Exclusion of the lane and signpost features is almost assuredly due to the proprietary North America map set that ALK uses. In the European/UK version, those maps are provided by Navteq and the lane information is included. The ALK North American maps probably don't have that info, thus they can't display it.

That brings up a number of questions as to what else is excluded from their database - thus not allowing for more advanced features. Using a proprietary database also raises concerns about the maps' accuracy, and frequency of update.

Exclusion of lane information features is enough for me to exclude this as a viable purchase solution. The unknown about map quality and updates also leads me to shy away from this, even at the discounted price. For some these may not be deal-breakers - for me they are.

tivoboy
Aug 14, 2009, 11:57 AM
As far as map updates go, historically with the winmo products one could CHOOSE to upload "tracks" to the company which would help them better their map database. I have always done this. I thnk it must be annoymous though. I don't thinkthe iPhone will technicallly phone home though.

diesel
Aug 14, 2009, 12:11 PM
As far as map updates go, historically with the winmo products one could CHOOSE to upload "tracks" to the company which would help them better their map database. I have always done this. I thnk it must be annoymous though. I don't thinkthe iPhone will technicallly phone home though.


still gives me the hibbie jibbies. there is no such thing as "anonymous" if they really want to match a track to a specific device. also, consider everyone who might choose to use the useless feature that lets others with the same program know where you are, this means they surely are linking locations/tracks to specific devices/phones.

gives me pause

theBB
Aug 14, 2009, 12:37 PM
Lane Assist is missing in the US, but how about points of interest? I could use Google Maps or Around Me to find gas stations, restaurants or banks, but unless I can copy and paste the address, it would suck to have to memorize the address and then enter it. However, I gotta say the price is right. :)

Tunnelrunner
Aug 14, 2009, 12:46 PM
Exclusion of the lane and signpost features is almost assuredly due to the proprietary North America map set that ALK uses. In the European/UK version, those maps are provided by Navteq and the lane information is included. The ALK North American maps probably don't have that info, thus they can't display it.

That brings up a number of questions as to what else is excluded from their database - thus not allowing for more advanced features. Using a proprietary database also raises concerns about the maps' accuracy, and frequency of update.

Exclusion of lane information features is enough for me to exclude this as a viable purchase solution. The unknown about map quality and updates also leads me to shy away from this, even at the discounted price. For some these may not be deal-breakers - for me they are.

I agree with all your points. This sounds like a stripped-down version, compared to its European counterpart.

Navigon is just okay, IMO (even after the update) and neither IGO nor Co-Pilot seem ready for prime-time (based off of the reviews I'm reading). I've gotten to the point where I feel like most of the TBT GPS apps are fairly comparable in quality and features...some have certain features that others don't, etc, but they all seem to balance out.

I'm only going to hold out for 2 more GPS apps:

1) TomTom. I'm not happy with how they have managed their "launch," nor their lack of communication but I look at it like this: I've been waiting for about 3 months already...what's another month or so of waiting?

2) Garmin. Okay, so this one doesn't exist (that we know of) but I'm hoping that somewhere down the line (maybe after the Nuviphone flops), Garmin will release a Nuvi app for the iPhone. They've already released an app for pilots, now we just need one for drivers.

-One side-note/observation on the "look" of the GPS apps: I do think it's interesting how Sygic, TomTom, IGO, Navigon and all the other Eurobased GPS apps share a common visual look...at least superficially. While Garmin, Telenav (AT&T Navigator), and G-Map seem to share a similar visual look (more simplified) that's different from the European apps.

ramzez
Aug 14, 2009, 01:05 PM
I doubt that it's an oversight. Even the screenshots in the app store show the lane assist/reality view for the uk version but not for the us version.

Also, another huge difference is that the UK version uses navteq maps whereas the US version uses "proprietary" maps.....i would rather go with navteq maps then some proprietary maps from a small company.
Hmm, looking at the website the company exists since 1979, and produces software for trucks

http://www.alk.com/pcmiler/

Rayfire
Aug 14, 2009, 01:10 PM
The menus are good, but do you really prefer that UI to say, navigon?
As I said I like their UI, compared to Navigon.

Still no in depth review at iTunes, makes me wonder if they even tested the app in real drive time :confused:
Anyone here from MR used the North America-Canada version? Care to share your experience?


I just want to know how good it works (if reliable or fast) on re-routing

and

how fast it picks up your location if you were interrupted by a phone call.
(just found out it never remembers your route, will be on the next update)

If this is really sub-par, I'm jumping over back to my first choice, Navigon.

MotionxxUSxx
Aug 14, 2009, 01:27 PM
As I said I like their UI, compared to Navigon.

Still no in depth review at iTunes, makes me wonder if they even tested the app in real drive time :confused:
Anyone here from MR used the North America-Canada version? Care to share your experience?


I just want to know how good it works (if reliable or fast) on re-routing

and

how fast it picks up your location if you were interrupted by a phone call.
(just found out it never remembers your route, will be on the next update)

If this is really sub-par, I'm jumping over back to my first choice, Navigon.

I own both a magic and iphone. I've got igomyway on my iphone which I think is awesome and I have copilot on my andorid magic. Copilot is decent on the android phone. I did have some gps aquisition issues, but that could just be the phone. Rerouting was fast. I did notice their is a tiny delay on your position with respect to where you are but this did not lead to any problems. I did like the interface, easy to use. I really haven't used it much since i use my iphone as my main phone, so I really can't write about how the poi database is. I did not like the fact that I needed a registration code from alk to use the android version. These codes can be used in the future from possibly loading on a new phone. I'm not sure if this is the case, but I am not a fan of these codes. Not sure if the copilot on the iphone will use these codes. Another nice feature on the android copilot version is the ability to download individual state maps within the application itselft. You do not have to download the enitre North America at one time and use up your memory. Not sure if this is the case with the iphone version.

fredf
Aug 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
I own both a magic and iphone. I've got igomyway on my iphone which I think is awesome and I have copilot on my andorid magic. .

Motionxx: would you care to provide more details on your iGo my way experience? Do you have any experience with Navigon that would allow you to compare?
For me, at least, it is down to these two apps.

thanks

MotionxxUSxx
Aug 14, 2009, 02:08 PM
Motionxx: would you care to provide more details on your iGo my way experience? Do you have any experience with Navigon that would allow you to compare?
For me, at least, it is down to these two apps.

thanks


Here are some quick thoughts on the igomyway app. Street names are extremely easy to read (important to me). Three views 3D+, 3D and 2D. 3D+ is interesting with elevation changes and 3d buildings. Routing is extremely quick. GPS signal locks right away. I did notice a slight lag on the 3d maps, but not enought ot cause any problems. I think this is a iphone issue as it seems all the gps turn by turn apps lag. Spoken street names are coming in an update. The thing I like best, is the app is so finger friendly. It is an amazing interface that is simple to use when in the car.

I purchased a navigon in car gps unit about 6 months ago and returned it after a few days. I thought the routing was terrible and the map graphics were hard to read including street names. I'm assuming this is the same maps and routing engine that is on the iphone. Navigon, quicly pulled out of the north american car gps units a few months later.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346414,00.asp

converge
Aug 15, 2009, 08:52 AM
Here are some quick thoughts on the igomyway app. Street names are extremely easy to read (important to me). Three views 3D+, 3D and 2D. 3D+ is interesting with elevation changes and 3d buildings. Routing is extremely quick. GPS signal locks right away. I did notice a slight lag on the 3d maps, but not enought ot cause any problems. I think this is a iphone issue as it seems all the gps turn by turn apps lag. Spoken street names are coming in an update. The thing I like best, is the app is so finger friendly. It is an amazing interface that is simple to use when in the car.

I purchased a navigon in car gps unit about 6 months ago and returned it after a few days. I thought the routing was terrible and the map graphics were hard to read including street names. I'm assuming this is the same maps and routing engine that is on the iphone. Navigon, quicly pulled out of the north american car gps units a few months later.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346414,00.asp

I recently downloaded the iGO app and also noticed the GPS lag. I'll cross an intersection and when I look at the map, the arrow will be slightly before the intersection. Is this normal for all TBT GPS apps on the iPhone (3GS)?

MotionxxUSxx
Aug 15, 2009, 09:02 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

Here are some quick thoughts on the igomyway app. Street names are extremely easy to read (important to me). Three views 3D+, 3D and 2D. 3D+ is interesting with elevation changes and 3d buildings. Routing is extremely quick. GPS signal locks right away. I did notice a slight lag on the 3d maps, but not enought ot cause any problems. I think this is a iphone issue as it seems all the gps turn by turn apps lag. Spoken street names are coming in an update. The thing I like best, is the app is so finger friendly. It is an amazing interface that is simple to use when in the car.

I purchased a navigon in car gps unit about 6 months ago and returned it after a few days. I thought the routing was terrible and the map graphics were hard to read including street names. I'm assuming this is the same maps and routing engine that is on the iphone. Navigon, quicly pulled out of the north american car gps units a few months later.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346414,00.asp

I recently downloaded the iGO app and also noticed the GPS lag. I'll cross an intersection and when I look at the map, the arrow will be slightly before the intersection. Is this normal for all TBT GPS apps on the iPhone (3GS)?

If you use the 2d maps there is not much lag.

FearlessFreep
Aug 15, 2009, 10:16 AM
I recently downloaded the iGO app and also noticed the GPS lag. I'll cross an intersection and when I look at the map, the arrow will be slightly before the intersection. Is this normal for all TBT GPS apps on the iPhone (3GS)?
This is inherent to the way the iPhone hardware/OS reports the GPS information. The iPhone itself reports the GPS coordinates late - sometimes up to 3 seconds.

It brings up the issue of how do the software developers deal with the lag. One approach is to basically try and 'mask' the problem by projecting where the actual position should be based on the speed, direction of travel, route, etc. This is the approach that out Navigon uses. It's not without issues though. If the software assumes a position ahead of the actual one and if the actual is somewhere else, that can cause issues with routing.

The other approach is is to basically acknowledge the problem and not try to hide the problem and simply deal with the reality of what's being reported to the software. That's the way IGO has dealt with the issue. Of course that brings up a certain delay aspect in on-screen position, instructions too.

Which way is better? Both are probably fine for general TBT at most speeds. It's obviously most apparent when traveling at higher speeds since there's more ground covered during the delay period.

converge
Aug 16, 2009, 02:36 PM
This is inherent to the way the iPhone hardware/OS reports the GPS information. The iPhone itself reports the GPS coordinates late - sometimes up to 3 seconds.

It brings up the issue of how do the software developers deal with the lag. One approach is to basically try and 'mask' the problem by projecting where the actual position should be based on the speed, direction of travel, route, etc. This is the approach that out Navigon uses. It's not without issues though. If the software assumes a position ahead of the actual one and if the actual is somewhere else, that can cause issues with routing.

The other approach is is to basically acknowledge the problem and not try to hide the problem and simply deal with the reality of what's being reported to the software. That's the way IGO has dealt with the issue. Of course that brings up a certain delay aspect in on-screen position, instructions too.

Which way is better? Both are probably fine for general TBT at most speeds. It's obviously most apparent when traveling at higher speeds since there's more ground covered during the delay period.

iGO actually verifies this on their own website: http://faq.webactive.hu/questions/11/I+was+told+that+the+GPS+position+is+late

With the built-in GPS receiver of the iPhone, we encounter a certain lag that causes the location displayed somewhat later than in reality. This can make the Vehimarker (a blue arrow showing the current location) fall behind at higher speeds. This is a hardware / operating system-related issue not causing significant inconvenience in using navigation. Future iPhone OS updates may reduce this lag.

Rayfire
Aug 16, 2009, 03:11 PM
After all the homework done, I've bought this app and here's my impression (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=766712) of it.