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MacRumors
Aug 14, 2009, 02:08 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/14/copilot-live-turn-by-turn-gps-app-debuts-in-app-store/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/14/150042-copilot1-1.jpg http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/14/150042-copilot2-2.jpg

Another developer has just entered the North American turn-by-turn GPS fray, joining Navigon (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/22/navigon-offers-full-featured-iphone-gps-navigation-for-a-single-upfront-fee/), Sygic (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/06/22/turn-by-turn-gps-apps-begin-to-appear-gokivo-sygic-navigon/), iGO (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/04/igo-my-way-2009-navigation-app-comes-to-the-app-store/) and others in providing an alternative to help iPhone 3GS and 3G users get where they need to go. CoPilot Live North America by ALK Technologies, Ltd. made it to the App Store earlier today and joins previously-published versions of the app for the United Kingdom and Europe.

CoPilot Live North America is currently priced aggressively relative to competing apps at $34.99. The North American navigation apps by Navigon, Sygic, and iGO are currently priced at $69.99, $79.99, and $79.99 respectively.

The CoPilot Live features list indicates that it stores maps of the U.S. and Canada locally on your iPhone and that it contains features common to stand-alone GPS units, including route optimization, pre-trip planning, an automatic day/night mode, and more.

TomTom, one of the major players in the GPS market, still has yet to release their iPhone GPS app that was first promised at WWDC in June. It is anxiously (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=744560) awaited (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=753135) by many MacRumors forum members, and recent rumors of a special media event (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/10/tomtom-special-media-event-on-september-22nd/) in September and around the pricing of the app and its companion mount (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/05/uk-retailer-offering-tomtom-car-kit-for-pre-order/) have revived speculation about its release date.

The CoPilot Live North America app can be found on the App Store here (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=324327451&mt=8) (link opens iTunes).

Article Link: 'CoPilot Live' Turn-by-Turn GPS App Debuts in App Store (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/14/copilot-live-turn-by-turn-gps-app-debuts-in-app-store/)



bigrash
Aug 14, 2009, 02:14 PM
That's cheap.

optophobia
Aug 14, 2009, 02:15 PM
Hopefully this will steal even MORE customers away from TomTom, making them learn a lesson for taking so bloody long.

Anyway did anyone notice this : Livelink location sharing and messaging : keep track of your copilot friends LIVE on screen.

Seems like a pretty neat function...

I am wondering how much the "real time traffic premium extra" is going to cost after the update....

meelash
Aug 14, 2009, 02:35 PM
Finally, these GPS apps are starting to come down to reasonable prices. Given that they are not selling any hardware, and the iPhone has built in maps, the prices at which the big companies are trying to sell turn-by-turn is really unsustainable.
If you can buy a standalone unit that includes GPS hardware and SD card storage for only $20-30 more, you know the app is overpriced.

Redwood
Aug 14, 2009, 02:41 PM
For this price I will buy this one. The $70 and $80 for the other navigation apps are way overpriced.

mikeinternet
Aug 14, 2009, 02:49 PM
Is that bike and walk modes? Thats what I'm looking for.

Doctor Q
Aug 14, 2009, 02:54 PM
Their store description says FREE UPDATE COMING SOON with some upcoming features, including remembering your destination after a phone call. I guess the current version loses track.

Dann0
Aug 14, 2009, 02:57 PM
I would sure like to see a video demo of this. Can iTunes be playing while this is running?

iphones4evry1
Aug 14, 2009, 03:06 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/14/copilot-live-turn-by-turn-gps-app-debuts-in-app-store/)


CoPilot Live North America is currently priced aggressively relative to competing apps at $34.99.

The phrase "early to market" apparently means nothing to TomTom. With a whole handful of GPS Apps now in the App Store, with prices as low as $34.99, I think TomTom has already waited too long. I think it's too late now. $34.99. :)

It's going to be interesting to see how many more GPS Apps enter the App Store before TomTom finishes their homework and turns it in late.

Doctor Q
Aug 14, 2009, 03:32 PM
It would not be a surprise if all this competition is putting pressure on TomTom to keep the price low. I haven't made up my mind about these apps, and I'd like to see them give formal side-by-side reviews.

apolloa
Aug 14, 2009, 04:47 PM
These relate to the UK version I've had for the last week or two:

Yes you can play iTunes whilst using it.

Yes it does have walk and peddle bike and motor bike modes.

Sat Nav software do NOT use the Goole Maps in the iPhone, they use maps that are made by one of several companies.

The Realtime traffic will cost about 35 pounds sterling in the UK for a 2 year subscription. So that's about 50 dollers isn't it?

Chris Blount
Aug 14, 2009, 05:11 PM
Downloading the app now. It's highly recommended to be done through iTunes due to possible authorization issues. The download is big at 1.1GB.

BeyondtheTech
Aug 14, 2009, 05:35 PM
Wow, and I was about to pull the trigger on Navigon before it supposedly was to go up to $99 on the 15th. Great steal, ALK! I picked it up in a heartbeat. I used to use CoPilot back on the WinMo devices, so I'm quite familiar with their stuff. Good to know that they'll have live tracking, that'll be fun to use!

Installing now... ;)

idesign81
Aug 14, 2009, 06:19 PM
Downloading the app now. It's highly recommended to be done through iTunes due to possible authorization issues. The download is big at 1.1GB.

Dumb question but can I use it with out Internet on my 3gs? If I press on the maps apple the gps seems to place me somewhere but with out Internet I have no maps. In this application I would.. Would it actually work?

apolloa
Aug 14, 2009, 06:24 PM
Dumb question but can I use it with out Internet on my 3gs? If I press on the maps apple the gps seems to place me somewhere but with out Internet I have no maps. In this application I would.. Would it actually work?

Not sure, when I installed it I had to enter my email address and a password, I was then sent an email from ALK stating my account had been set up so I suspect not. Can you not just connect to a WiFi connection as that will work.

boxstboy
Aug 14, 2009, 06:24 PM
the iPhone has built in maps

WTF? The iphone doesn't have any built-in maps. Google Maps relies on a fast internet connection to stream maps as you move. Real GPS apps store all maps on the phone, so no waiting when you move to EDGE/GPRS in the sticks. Even 3G's latency is too high for fast on-demand streaming.

kugino
Aug 14, 2009, 06:49 PM
downloaded as well...will use tonight on the way to friend's house to see how it works.

swb1192
Aug 14, 2009, 06:50 PM
Anyone else experiencing slow download time for this app? I've got 2 hours remaining for it...?

Doctor Q
Aug 14, 2009, 07:07 PM
Anyone else experiencing slow download time for this app? I've got 2 hours remaining for it...?

The app is over a gigabyte (the maps are stored on your phone, not accessed lived), so you can expect it to take a lot longer to download than most apps.

knewsom
Aug 14, 2009, 07:11 PM
I gotta say, this one looks really good. I've been using G-Map for awhile, and while I like it, I think this one's interface and feature set may be better. I'll have to figure out more about this traffic premium nonsense though... certainly not something I'd be willing to pay extra for.

Madeye
Aug 14, 2009, 07:59 PM
I would love to see if I could use my GPS receiver via bluetooth instead of the iphones GPS. My bluetooth gps is a lot stronger and did a great job on my winmo HTC phone using iGuidance app.

BeyondtheTech
Aug 14, 2009, 08:44 PM
Just a couple of notes on the product.

Interface is great. Street names are large and legible without obstructing or being distracting.

I like the fact that they made their own keyboard. I don't like ABCDEF keyboard layout - would have preferred QWERTY as an option.

Voices are plenty and they are loud. Lots of options to play with, including 2D/3D, day/night, compass, etc. Refresh rate is decent.

My music still played in the background while the app was running, but I didn't get to test the actual navigation yet (just bought it and it took a while to download!).

Glad to see that they're familiar with my area - the snapshots in iTunes are of East Brunswick, NJ! ;)

This product is well worth the $35 I paid. Let's hope that the realtime traffic won't be expensive when it becomes available, as well as map updates.

Chris Blount
Aug 14, 2009, 09:39 PM
So far so good. Took a while to download. Also took a bit to transfer to the iPhone. Be prepared for at least an hour getting it installed.

I didn't use it very much but it appears to not speak street names. Also, the maps are a little out of date. There are new streets in my area that have been finished for over 4 years yet they do not appear on this app.

You can choose between a male or female voice.

I like the interface. Typing in a destination is easy.

Shows weather conditions locally, at destination or in another city.

Will cost extra to use the traffic part of the app.

Lots of POI's (Points of Interest).

Able to select routing type (Quickest, Shortest, Avoid Expressways, Economic).

Not a bad app! Lots of features and definitely worth $35 if you don't already have a stand alone GPS. I have a Garmin Nuvi and will still use it but this is great for a "backup" in case I don't have the Garmin in the car.

leomac08
Aug 14, 2009, 09:42 PM
i don't own an iphone no more.

but if i wanted to buy this GPS app for my ipod touch will it be useful? or not? when i don't have wi-fi? (please be easy on me btw.:D)

ct2k7
Aug 14, 2009, 09:44 PM
These relate to the UK version I've had for the last week or two:

Yes you can play iTunes whilst using it.

Yes it does have walk and peddle bike and motor bike modes.

Sat Nav software do NOT use the Goole Maps in the iPhone, they use maps that are made by one of several companies.

The Realtime traffic will cost about 35 pounds sterling in the UK for a 2 year subscription. So that's about 50 dollers isn't it?

Just to say that ALK haven't released pricing to live traffic, unless you're going to get a Windows Mobile license?

bretm
Aug 14, 2009, 09:49 PM
WTF? The iphone doesn't have any built-in maps. Google Maps relies on a fast internet connection to stream maps as you move. Real GPS apps store all maps on the phone, so no waiting when you move to EDGE/GPRS in the sticks. Even 3G's latency is too high for fast on-demand streaming.

On my previous EDGE iPhone I was able to use Google Maps as a nearly block accurate GPS by cell tower and wifi triangulation alone here in Atlanta area. Never had a problem streaming maps over EDGE and on 3G it's instantaneous. Not sure what 3G speeds others are getting, but in ATL I get 2.2mb/sec.
That's half of my charter broadband which gets 4.4mb/sec generally.

bretm
Aug 14, 2009, 09:52 PM
i don't own an iphone no more.

but if i wanted to buy this GPS app for my ipod touch will it be useful? or not? when i don't have wi-fi? (please be easy on me btw.:D)

Does your ipod touch have GPS?

leomac08
Aug 14, 2009, 10:21 PM
Does your ipod touch have GPS?

No, and I don't think that nobody does. Durh?! I just thought that a GPS app would be preloaded with maps, so u won't have to load them like in google maps, I was just asking? :D

dwsolberg
Aug 14, 2009, 11:01 PM
GPS applications generally work with two things:

1. Your location as determined by a GPS receiver that triangulates based on its view of the satellites in the sky. This is why GPS applications do a lot better if the device has a good view of the sky. The iPhone 3G and 3GS are the only Apple devices with GPS. The iPod Touch can get a general sense of where you are by knowing where various WIFI points are, but it isn't accurate enough for turn-by-turn directions. Also, it doesn't work when you're moving fast on highways or where they are not WIFI hotspots.

2. The maps. Google does not license its maps for turn-by-turn directions on the iPhone as far as I know. This means that a GPS application needs to supply all of its own maps and other information. That's why the file sizes are HUGE and GIGANTIC compared to other applications. That's what makes them take so long to download.

Hope that helps.

leomac08
Aug 14, 2009, 11:18 PM
thank you ^^^^^^^^ dwsolberg^^^^^^ now I know it will take about more than a hour if I want to download a GPS app for my iPod touch

zelman
Aug 15, 2009, 01:24 AM
thank you ^^^^^^^^ dwsolberg^^^^^^ now I know it will take about more than a hour if I want to download a GPS app for my iPod touch


The iPod touch does not have gps hardware. You will possibly be able to plan routes, but you will not know where you are located.

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 01:46 AM
Can anyone do an in depth review of this app? Somehow I've been getting mixed reviews for this app for their UK version (yeah yeah I know we're here at US but I'm doing my own research to determine how reliable this app is)

kugino
Aug 15, 2009, 03:27 AM
Can anyone do an in depth review of this app? Somehow I've been getting mixed reviews for this app for their UK version (yeah yeah I know we're here at US but I'm doing my own research to determine how reliable this app is)

just some quick notes after using it tonight while going to a friend's house (in phoenix/scottsdale area, in case anyone's interested):

- voice is loud and clear
- user interface is confusing so far, but will just take time to understand it
- needs the update to QWERTY soon!
- picked up GPS signal quickly and didn't lag very much. pretty accurate
- direction prompts are so-so. didn't like the fact that it just said, "take exit" rather than "take exit 101". though sygic doesn't have text to speech, it would give the exit number.
- can move map around via touch; sygic doesn't do that, which is a pain.
- saving contacts lists to favorites is somewhat tedious, as it asks you to verify city/state/street/number before adding to your favorites.
- screen automatically stays on as long as app is running, unlike sygic where i had to turn off the auto-lock in settings.

that's a quick rundown of what i've exprienced so far. haven't used a lot of the functions yet so i'll need to play more with that soon. for $35, i think it's a really good deal and even though tom tom might come out with something better, it would have to be REALLY good to get me to download it.

r6girl
Aug 15, 2009, 07:50 AM
Not sure, when I installed it I had to enter my email address and a password, I was then sent an email from ALK stating my account had been set up so I suspect not. Can you not just connect to a WiFi connection as that will work.

Are you saying that in order to start using the app, you had to enter your email and create a password and wait for an email from ALK? I wonder if this is some sort of per-installation tagging that will prevent you from sharing the app within your household to other iPhones synced with the same iTunes account. :confused:

EagerDragon
Aug 15, 2009, 09:24 AM
just some quick notes after using it tonight while going to a friend's house (in phoenix/scottsdale area, in case anyone's interested):

- voice is loud and clear
- user interface is confusing so far, but will just take time to understand it
- needs the update to QWERTY soon!
- picked up GPS signal quickly and didn't lag very much. pretty accurate
- direction prompts are so-so. didn't like the fact that it just said, "take exit" rather than "take exit 101". though sygic doesn't have text to speech, it would give the exit number.
- can move map around via touch; sygic doesn't do that, which is a pain.
- saving contacts lists to favorites is somewhat tedious, as it asks you to verify city/state/street/number before adding to your favorites.
- screen automatically stays on as long as app is running, unlike sygic where i had to turn off the auto-lock in settings.

that's a quick rundown of what i've exprienced so far. haven't used a lot of the functions yet so i'll need to play more with that soon. for $35, i think it's a really good deal and even though tom tom might come out with something better, it would have to be REALLY good to get me to download it.

Weird that it does not seem to be able to take advantage of Address Book. I rather enter something in Address book and have the GPS application add it to my favorites. Why enter an address twice?

mcoyne
Aug 15, 2009, 10:34 AM
Wow, and I was about to pull the trigger on Navigon before it supposedly was to go up to $99 on the 15th.

Navigon has now extended their reduced price of $70 until August 31st. They must be feeling the pressure.

ZipZap
Aug 15, 2009, 12:31 PM
Which of all of them is the best product?

Lets see if the $35 drives the price points on the others down. If the products are reasonably comparable...double the price is just not going to fly regardless of the Brand Name.

gabe90
Aug 15, 2009, 01:27 PM
This looks great and the price is finally something that won't prohibit me from buying. Hope this drives down the other GPS apps prices as well. Good news!

apolloa
Aug 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
Are you saying that in order to start using the app, you had to enter your email and create a password and wait for an email from ALK? I wonder if this is some sort of per-installation tagging that will prevent you from sharing the app within your household to other iPhones synced with the same iTunes account. :confused:

I didn't need to wait for an email but part of the installation process was to enter my email address and a password if I remember. But that's the UK version. It could be an anti piracy measure.

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 05:05 PM
just some quick notes after using it tonight while going to a friend's house (in phoenix/scottsdale area, in case anyone's interested):

- voice is loud and clear
- user interface is confusing so far, but will just take time to understand it
- needs the update to QWERTY soon!
- picked up GPS signal quickly and didn't lag very much. pretty accurate
- direction prompts are so-so. didn't like the fact that it just said, "take exit" rather than "take exit 101". though sygic doesn't have text to speech, it would give the exit number.
- can move map around via touch; sygic doesn't do that, which is a pain.
- saving contacts lists to favorites is somewhat tedious, as it asks you to verify city/state/street/number before adding to your favorites.
- screen automatically stays on as long as app is running, unlike sygic where i had to turn off the auto-lock in settings.

that's a quick rundown of what i've exprienced so far. haven't used a lot of the functions yet so i'll need to play more with that soon. for $35, i think it's a really good deal and even though tom tom might come out with something better, it would have to be REALLY good to get me to download it.

Appreciate the quick review kugino, I have a couple of questions still: Is it true that the Lane assist and speed limits are not available for the app? People are saying it was greyed out. Also when some call interrupts the app, you lose your route afterwards? I wish they could hbe polished it a little more before they released it.

DELLsFan
Aug 15, 2009, 05:06 PM
It would not be a surprise if all this competition is putting pressure on TomTom to keep the price low. I haven't made up my mind about these apps, and I'd like to see them give formal side-by-side reviews.

Me too ... and the longer I wait for TomTom to get off their PomPoms and release their product, the angrier I get. :mad:

entropys
Aug 15, 2009, 05:07 PM
I didn't need to wait for an email but part of the installation process was to enter my email address and a password if I remember. But that's the UK version. It could be an anti piracy measure.

Or, more likely, a registration procedure so they can send you annoying 'product updates'. You know, "add value to your app, with additional feature x for only $9.95, with purchase enabled through the app. You will be amazed how much better your app works. And if you love CoPilot for iphone, why not try coPilot XL, stand alone hardware with all copilot features for only $200!"

davyreins
Aug 15, 2009, 05:23 PM
Do any of of the current GPS apps have turn-by-turn with streets? As in does the voice say "turn right in 50 ft. on Marshall St" or does it just say "Turn right in 50 ft." and you have to look at the iPhone to figure out the street name.

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 05:35 PM
Do any of of the current GPS apps have turn-by-turn with streets? As in does the voice say "turn right in 50 ft. on Marshall St" or does it just say "Turn right in 50 ft." and you have to look at the iPhone to figure out the street name.

So far none, a lot of us are waiting for that TTS feature which IMHO is for safety. Navigon, Sygic and some other TBT apps have that option coming in a future update in which we don't know how long will it take them to release it (then get approved by Apple)

kevingaffney
Aug 15, 2009, 06:05 PM
Must say I've only used copilot for two days yet, but am impressed with ease of use, clarity of speech and overall value for money. I've encountered two problems so far. Sometimes app seems to hang during launch and has to be restarted. Also annoying that when interrupted by a call, app has to restart. However, I don't think any app has been perfect on launch and these seem minor problems which should be easily sorted with an update. Overall, very good value for money

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 06:28 PM
Must say I've only used copilot for two days yet, but am impressed with ease of use, clarity of speech and overall value for money. I've encountered two problems so far. Sometimes app seems to hang during launch and has to be restarted. Also annoying that when interrupted by a call, app has to restart. However, I don't think any app has been perfect on launch and these seem minor problems which should be easily sorted with an update. Overall, very good value for money

People say the maps are outdated, do you have a good experience with the use/display of maps on CoPilot?

Also, when you do close turns - does the app really fail on that? It can't give you precise instructions for close turns - what I mean is after turning right, you'll be turning right (or left) immediately; Somehow reviews are showing that the app can't keep up for that, is this true?

I don't know if I can sacrifice the price for an old map and a flaky TBT directions. The call feature will be addressed on an update though.

apolloa
Aug 15, 2009, 06:39 PM
Or, more likely, a registration procedure so they can send you annoying 'product updates'. You know, "add value to your app, with additional feature x for only $9.95, with purchase enabled through the app. You will be amazed how much better your app works. And if you love CoPilot for iphone, why not try coPilot XL, stand alone hardware with all copilot features for only $200!"

My your cynical? But no, I don;t think it's to send me spam mate. You have to have an account to use Co-Pilot live features.

kevingaffney
Aug 15, 2009, 07:30 PM
having used a Tom Tom satnav for two years, copilots maps are already showing up more accurate. I have'nt yet had a problem not keeping up with any turns or junctions. Also this setup finds satellite initially much faster than my Tom tom.

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 08:16 PM
having used a Tom Tom satnav for two years, copilots maps are already showing up more accurate. I have'nt yet had a problem not keeping up with any turns or junctions. Also this setup finds satellite initially much faster than my Tom tom.

Thanks. A lot of people are reporting that the map CoPilot uses are outdated badly, which is why I'm holding off - maps are the heart of this app.

So basically the US version doesn't have a Lane assist yet? Nor speed limit warnings?

Hawkeye411
Aug 15, 2009, 08:35 PM
I'm no GPS junkie or expert but IMO it works very well. You get warnings 200, 100 and 50 meters before the turn. It will also tell you when a second turn occurs very soon after the upcoming turn "turn left in 50 meters and then turn right".

However, it's not perfect. When you are just about to reach the turning point it says something like "in a short distance, turn left" (sorry I can't remember the exact wording). By the time it finishes the relatively long instruction, you are already at the street and beginning you turn. It's not a real big deal though. It gives you 3 warnings before the turn so it's obvious that you need to turn at the next street. If you can't figure this out, what the heck are you doing on the road?? ;) and how did you ever get anywhere before GPS lol.

The maps do need an update. There are a few "new" streets in my subdivision that are not on the maps and the streets are about 3 years old now. However, I do live in "Smallville" New Brunswick, population 80,000 :).

I'm glad I bought this and not a more expensive app. I think it will be very helpful! Not perfect but well worth the money.

Cheers.

Tunnelrunner
Aug 15, 2009, 09:31 PM
Do any of of the current GPS apps have turn-by-turn with streets? As in does the voice say "turn right in 50 ft. on Marshall St" or does it just say "Turn right in 50 ft." and you have to look at the iPhone to figure out the street name.

Only if you live in North America: the 2 iPhone GPS apps with full-blown TTS are AT&T Navigator by Telenav and Gokivo.

wilbmeister
Aug 15, 2009, 10:03 PM
Does anyone know how this would work to do some geocaching?

Thanks!

Wakakanada
Aug 15, 2009, 10:27 PM
I heard that the much anticipated Tom Tom will come with GPS boosting hardware. Is anyone experiencing insufficient GPS with this app? Do you think a boost would make a difference:confused:

OneMike
Aug 15, 2009, 10:37 PM
this app looks pretty nice and the price is right.


At this point tomtom can't be on point with the other apps. Will have to bring something extra to the table.

bacaramac
Aug 15, 2009, 10:40 PM
I think the GPS dev's need to add the Holux or similar Bluetooth GPS receivers to their application support. This would open up these apps to iPod Touch users which I think could double their sales.

I used the Holux GPSlim236 with a WinMo PDA Phone (AT&T8525) and it was incredibly sensitive and could locate me in a basement the second I turned it on.

Just a thought.

newoverhere
Aug 15, 2009, 10:56 PM
I have both Navigon and CoPilot and so far copilot is the winner, gps lock is quick and stays on, with Navigon I lost my gps connection multiple times on a 45 min. drive. The live search in copilot uses internet connection to find a POI and is able to find small shops and places. Navigon's POI database is no so upto date (atleast in my upstate NY area).


I am thinking of doing a full restore of my iPhone as suggested by Navigon to resolve the GPS signal issue, but so far after a day of use copilot is winner in my book.

Wakakanada
Aug 15, 2009, 11:07 PM
Well, after stumbling across this thread, I read some online reviews and am downloading now. This app seems to have everything and is as good as any competitor but cheaper. Will let you know how it works around Vancouver BC. Good pricepoint... been wanting a turn-by-turn since I got my iPhone last August, so glad I found one cheap enough for my wife to let me buy it!!! :p

email68
Aug 15, 2009, 11:17 PM
I caved in and buying it now. :)

Does anyone know if it auto re-routes when you miss a turn?

Rayfire
Aug 15, 2009, 11:22 PM
To both of you, let us know how it works well in your driving experience. I'm concerned about how reliable the directions are compared to its competitors. Thanks in advance!

Well, after stumbling across this thread, I read some online reviews and am downloading now. This app seems to have everything and is as good as any competitor but cheaper. Will let you know how it works around Vancouver BC. Good pricepoint... been wanting a turn-by-turn since I got my iPhone last August, so glad I found one cheap enough for my wife to let me buy it!!! :p

I caved in and buying it now. :)

Does anyone know if it auto re-routes when you miss a turn?
Yes it should AFAIK

Update: Might as well give it a try, so I bought it...

telefono
Aug 16, 2009, 12:02 AM
Hope its available in Australia soon :)

fpnc
Aug 16, 2009, 12:04 AM
I purchased Copilot just today and I've had mixed results. In fact, the GPS sensitivity and map detail seem to be better on the iPhone's built-in Maps application (what I mean is Copilot's GPS accuracy and response seems slower than what I get on the Maps application). Perhaps Maps is using WiFi and cell tower triangulation to improve the GPS lock. Also, in my current location Copilot just displays a "near" street such-and-such message and no actual streets while Maps shows the full set of side streets for the complex where I'm located. It's not a new complex (a 15+ year-old mobile home park with paved and named streets). Maps shows all of these side streets, Copilot just shows that I'm off the main street in a completely blank area of the map.

I also had a few instances where the driving directions seem completely weird, like taking me in a circle around a block (multiple left turns followed by a right) instead of making a simple, single right turn to get on the proper route and street (and there were no one-way or right turn prohibitions). I suspect that what might be happening is that Copilot is making a circle-around when it can't determine it's true street location. This could even be a problem with the iPhone's GPS accuracy, perhaps Copilot isn't even at fault.

In any case, I certainly need more time with Copilot to determine just how well it can work, so don't take the previous "circle-around" comment as a confirmed issue.

Rayfire
Aug 16, 2009, 12:06 AM
I purchased Copilot just today and I've had mixed results. In fact, the GPS sensitivity and map detail seem to be better on the iPhone's built-in Maps application (what I mean is Copilot's GPS accuracy and response seems slower than what I get on the Maps application). Perhaps Maps is using WiFi and cell tower triangulation to improve the GPS lock. Also, in my current location Copilot just displays a "near" street such-and-such message and no actual streets while Maps shows the full set of side streets for the complex where I'm located. It's not a new complex (a 15+ year-old mobile home park with paved and named streets). Maps shows all of these side streets, Copilot just shows that I'm off the main street in a completely blank area of the map.

I also had a few instances where the driving directions seem completely weird, like taking me in a circle around a block (multiple left turns followed by a right) instead of making a simple, single right turn to get on the proper route and street (and there were no one-way or right turn prohibitions). I suspect that what might be happening is that Copilot is making a circle-around when it can't determine it's true street location. This could even be a problem with the iPhone's GPS accuracy, perhaps Copilot isn't even at fault.

In any case, I certainly need more time with Copilot to determine just how well it can work, so don't take the previous "circle-around" comment as a confirmed issue.

I've been reading various forums and reviews (before I decided to buy this) and found out that tweaking your settings on the route will help you solve that, somehow the default route profile for the app is really awful. I haven't tested it yet since I'm still downloading it but the tweaking the settings should help.

Edit: Great it crashed my iTunes after downloading, have to redo it again geez

REMINDER: Do not download this app while your iPhone/iPod is conected, it will cause your iTunes to freeze. Make sure your iPhone is not connected especially if the app is about to be 100% fully finished downloaded. Tried and tested three times, I removed my iPhone and now it's working fine.

fpnc
Aug 16, 2009, 02:27 AM
Here is some more information on my results with CoPilot and my iPhone 3GS. The first time I launched the app (or more precisely when I was doing the initial registration and setup and attempted a step back) CoPilot locked up and I had to restart my iPhone. Since then I've not had any crashes or lockups in the application. I also had one instance where the 2D map (route) showed a blank screen but was okay when I switched to the 3D map (maybe it lost GPS lock while I was trying to use the 2D map).

More troubling, however, is that I'm beginning to think that the GPS and map accuracy in CoPilot (and/or the iPhone) may only be in the 25 to 50 yard range which means that under some conditions you might be placed on the wrong street and given incorrect directions. It may be fine on the open highway but in my hands it SEEMS to have problems with densely-packed local streets. The odd thing is that when I switch out of CoPilot and launch the iPhone's built-in Maps application my location (in Maps) seems very accurate (maybe within 5 yards or better).

I don't have enough experience yet to know whether the accuracy is typically that "loose" but I'm beginning to think that CoPilot may only be able to place you NEAR-TO locations and not AT locations. It also seems that this causes more issues at the start of a route or when traveling slowly (walking or stopped in a car) since they may be using GPS sample smoothing and driving vectors to improve their placement on the maps.

Tomorrow may be the final test as I'm planning a fairly long drive to San Diego and I may be able to visit several points along the way from my iPhone's address book.

fpnc
Aug 16, 2009, 04:27 AM
Okay, I've done a little more testing and I think I've confirmed my earlier suggestion that CoPilot is accurate to somewhere between 25 and 50 yards. Further, Wikipedia says that civilian GPS accuracy is typically around 15 meters with the best and newest devices capable of positioning within 5 meters. Thus, I'd estimate that when you combine map errors with a typical 15m GPS accuracy that a 25 to 50 yard range of uncertainty ("accuracy") is certainly understandable.

I guess what this means is that you can't really expect the starting and ending points on a route to be very close to their true locations. Thus, you'll need to "look around" and fix yourself on the street map before you blindly follow the initial step(s) in the CoPilot route (i.e. be somewhat wary of any turns that come within the first 100 to 200 feet of your route). The same is probably true for ending points and turns on the route -- the distances may be off by up to 50 yards (of course, YMMV).

kevingaffney
Aug 16, 2009, 05:05 AM
I probably only need to use a sat nav maybe a couple of times a month.
That influenced my decision to spend 35 euros on the product, rather than maybe a couple of hundred on tom tom.
The co pilot after sale seems to be on the ball too. I emailed them Saturday with a suggested improvement, and had a reply within a couple of hours that my suggestion had already been implemented in the next update due within four weeks.
I think this is a little like people who have been waiting for the perfect iphone.
They may never get one because there will always be some other feature they feel they need.

Hawkeye411
Aug 16, 2009, 06:59 AM
I caved in and buying it now. :)

Does anyone know if it auto re-routes when you miss a turn?

Yes it does. Works well too.

Cheers.

dazey
Aug 16, 2009, 07:24 AM
I was really disappointed in this app. For use in London I found that the routing was lousy. Car routes were taking me on heavily congested routes and walk/cycle routes were no where near direct. Also found that the gps was slow and laggy. I went back to using motion gps and using straight line navigation which I find works quite well in London.

Chris Blount
Aug 16, 2009, 08:29 AM
I used the app all day yesterday.

Basically, the app is worth $35.00. It functions well as a basic no frills navigation system. If you don't want to spend the money on a Tom Tom or Garmin, this is the way to go.

fredf
Aug 16, 2009, 08:48 AM
different thread perhaps, but from what I'm hearing here, I would love to have some more information on iGo My Way.
That is still my front runner.

iooi
Aug 16, 2009, 08:49 AM
Nothing is cheaper than Roadee (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=320421886&mt=8) It's based on OpenStreetMap (http://openstreetmap.org/) so no royalties for the maps have to be paid. And because of OpenStreetMap - it improves constantly

HowEver
Aug 16, 2009, 09:17 AM
Nothing is cheaper than Roadee (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=320421886&mt=8) It's based on OpenStreetMap (http://openstreetmap.org/) so no royalties for the maps have to be paid. And because of OpenStreetMap - it improves constantly

Wow, it's hard to argue with a $1.99 voice-guided map app. Reviews are really mixed on iTunes though. Would like to see more before parting with that almost two bucks.

badger88
Aug 16, 2009, 09:25 AM
I am sorry, if this is a silly question, but can somebody answer me this:

I live in the UK and my I phone contract is with British Telecom.
If I buy the US version of this application and use it while visiting there,
would I need to connect to the AT&T network and thus need to pay roaming charges ?
Thanks.

twoodcc
Aug 16, 2009, 10:37 AM
wow that is cheap. i'll have to read some reviews on this

kugino
Aug 16, 2009, 12:33 PM
Appreciate the quick review kugino, I have a couple of questions still: Is it true that the Lane assist and speed limits are not available for the app? People are saying it was greyed out. Also when some call interrupts the app, you lose your route afterwards? I wish they could hbe polished it a little more before they released it.

i have not seen the options for the lane assist and the speed limits...but then again, i haven't played around with it enough. i have not received calls while using the app, so don't know about losing routes.

it's fairly polished, just needs a bit more of the details worked out. it gets you to your destination and does that part well. all the other details that make it easy to use need to be worked out (like qwerty, and automatic addition of contacts into the app itself). for the price, i think it's a no-brainer.

claud9999
Aug 16, 2009, 12:42 PM
I used to use CoPilot on my Windows Mobile phones regularly, they were so much better than Tom Tom for WM (Particularly text-to-speech and map management.) Good to see them giving Tom Tom a further run for their money.

Even though I've already bought Navigon's s/w, I'm buying this one too. (I wish I knew, ALK, next time how about a press release?)

Rayfire
Aug 16, 2009, 03:13 PM
As promised, after all the homework done, I've bought this app gave it a whirl, here's my impression (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=766712) of it.

kugino
Aug 16, 2009, 04:28 PM
thanks for the review. i share many of the same feelings about the app as you do, and hope that the next update gives us a bit more to be happy about. for the price, it's the best out there so far, IMO.

WAY better than the sygic app. i bought this one for a recent trip to AUS/NZ and it mostly worked, but locking onto a gps signal was poor, lagged a lot, and didn't have the iphone features you think should be a part of every app, like finger scrolling, moving maps around, etc.

milan03
Aug 16, 2009, 04:53 PM
Just a quick tip for everyone that wants to use only GPS chip and no data service, which gives you much more precise tracking.

You have to pop the sim out , in order to solely use the GPS, since putting the phone in the airplane mode will turn off all the antennas. switching the wifi on in airplane mode doesn't do the trick. This is very handy if you are roaming and trying to use your gps and avoiding rediculous att charges.

jholzner
Aug 17, 2009, 10:06 AM
Finally, these GPS apps are starting to come down to reasonable prices. Given that they are not selling any hardware, and the iPhone has built in maps, the prices at which the big companies are trying to sell turn-by-turn is really unsustainable.
If you can buy a standalone unit that includes GPS hardware and SD card storage for only $20-30 more, you know the app is overpriced.

The iPhone doesn't have built-in maps. It's Google Maps and they load over the network AND they CANNOT be used for turn by turn GPS software so...yeah.

fpnc
Aug 17, 2009, 12:57 PM
I went on a trip yesterday with CoPilot and I now feel pretty confident about my earlier comments concerning this app. First the "bad:"

1.) You're going to find areas where the map is out of date. I've found two local areas where CoPilot will just show you out in a blank area of the map. One is a 15+ year-old mobile home park (with paved, named streets) the other a new commercial/retail area that was finished several years ago. Of course, Google Maps shows both of these areas and even has street views.

2.) Expect the map locations to only be accurate to maybe +/- 50 yards. This can cause problems in urban areas or when streets are closely spaced. The end result is that it may place you on the wrong street or in the wrong location and thus give you incorrect or inappropriate directions. For example, the voice prompt may tell you to make a left turn when the correct direction is to the right (this happened because I'd already made the needed left turn and the next turn -- to the right -- was maybe 30 or 40 yards down the road). I also had one instance where CoPilot showed me traveling down the wrong road in a city location where the two roads ran parallel and were separated by maybe 50 yards.

3.) The voice directions can be misleading because of the accuracy issue discussed in item 2 (above) and because they will sometimes use terms like "turn right" when actually you just need to keep to the right. They may also use the term "turn" when merging onto a highway (although you're unlikely to make a mistake in that situation). Also, because of the accuracy issue the final voice directions may come somewhat late, for example the "just ahead, turn right" voice prompt may come just at or very slightly past the needed turn.

Now for the "good:"

1.) The CoPilot app has only crashed once, and that was during the initial setup of the application. Otherwise, the stability of the application seems okay.

2.) CoPilot does a pretty good job at re-routing your directions if you miss a turn or make the wrong turn. Thus, assuming no other issues it would be pretty hard to get permanently lost while using CoPilot.

3.) You can manually scroll the maps and the graphics response is good (I'm running on a 32GB iPhone 3GS).

4.) The maps are clear and bright. The map interface is fine (IMO). The voice prompts are loud (over the iPhone's speakers) and when played through my car's audio system the quality of the voice is very good.

5.) I've yet to see a case where the routing was completely wrong, although I have seen what I would term "weird" routing.

Final summary:

It's pretty nice for $35 (U.S.) but don't expect it to be a dead accurate, precise GPS solution with fully up-to-date maps. Because of the accuracy limits you need to be careful when starting your route or when in areas of closely spaced streets or turns. The latter is particularly true for the voice prompts which can be misplaced or even totally misleading. Thus, when you are near to a turn or destination reference the map (visually) to determine the "lay of the land" and to see whether you may need to make a few closely spaced turns (the map names the next turn and indicates the left/right direction and distance to the next or following turn).

Overall, it seems to be worth the money and it works fairly well. However, you may be better off using the built-in Google Maps application in some situations (the Maps application seems to have more streets and for some reason it also seems to give more accurate locations -- may have something to do with the WiFi and cell-tower triangulation or maybe the coordinates in the Maps application are better than in CoPilot). Actually, for the start and final end of a trip the Maps application may give better directions as you make those 100ft and 50ft types of turns.

Things that need to be improved:

1.) The map/GPS accuracy. However, I'm thinking that this MAY be tied to the iPhone's GPS and thus there may be nothing that CoPilot can do to make this any better. This issue may, however, be related to the accuracy of the map coordinates in CoPilot since the iPhone's GPS gives raw latitude and longitude (which could be accurate) but if the map coordinates are wrong then you aren't going to be placed correctly in the real world. This would explain why Google Maps seems to more accurately place itself on Google's own maps (because the Google maps have move accurate coordinates, thus the iPhone's GPS may be fine).

2.) It needs text-to-speech so that it can give the street, highway, and exit names. Right now it just says turn right, turn left, keep right/left, and/or exit and a few other voice prompts.

3.) The maps need more recent data. This may only be an issue in residential areas or in fairly new construction, I HOPE that it has the most recent changes to the major highway systems. <Update, I've seen a few user reports that major highway exits are missing from CoPilot, thus the map data may not be that good ("good" being somewhat relative since I doubt that any map will be 100% correct).>

4.) There needs to be a better way of resuming your trip, that is you should be able to quit the CoPilot app and then easily resume your current trip/route. This is pretty important for battery management, since the iPhone's battery will only last one to two hours while the GPS is running. It should remember you last route when you quit and then prompt you to resume when you next launch the application ("Resume previous route, Yes/No?").

SpaceKitty
Aug 17, 2009, 04:01 PM
Even with the review above, I think CoPilot is 10 times better than TomTom. I bought TomTom today and I seriously don't think I will be using it again. It's just to plain and I had to change the maps to several different color combinations before I could easily read the street names.

With CoPilot, everthing is easy to read from street names to the little POI symbols. I tried out CoPilot last night around the city of Broomfield Colorado last night and it was surprising at how much the maps included when TomTom and Sygic and Navigon don't have covered such as mobile home parks mapped out. CoPilot had all of these mapped out. I like all the bright colored maps and it makes it easy to tell highways from regular streets. In TomTom, it looked like the highways had just a very lightly colored border to let you know those were highways.

I also like how CoPilot never failed to list a street name. My Garmin 850 that cost over $500 last year don't do that. It lists maybe 3/4 of the street names, some of them only show when you are traveling one direction down the street but not the other.

Any address that you recently entered goes into it's history so you can go right to it again.

It also looks like the box on the lower left shows your next two turns by showing arrows and distance till that turn but the top arrow didn't appear to be to accurate as it would show that arrow even after I made turns. Maybe I am wrong in how it's suppsed to work though.

A funny thing happened this morning while trying out TomTom. I had set my address as my home location and tapped on the home buttin while parked in my driveway. TomTom actually routed me as going around the block and coming right back around to my home, about a two minute trip even though I was already home. :D

I've tried all of the big GPS apps and I've been dissapointed in all of them except CoPilot. The voice prompts do need some work.

I'm not interested in the music playback while the GPS is running because my iPod Classic plugs into my stereo and plays back through it's touch screen.

I'll rate CoPilot about 4 stars out of 5.
IGO gets 3.5.
TomTom gets 3.
Navigon gets 3
Sygic gets 2
G-Map gets 3

darwen
Aug 17, 2009, 07:20 PM
Cars with built in GPS tend to turn down the music when giving a direction. I already have a Garmin I can use for voice directions, what I want is the ability to hear these directions while listening to music.

Does this app (or any of the GPS apps) turn down the music to give a direction?

pooryou
Aug 17, 2009, 07:34 PM
Navigon just overlays the directions over the music, and I can hear them fine. I think turning the music down would just be annoying.

Rayfire
Aug 17, 2009, 08:52 PM
Cars with built in GPS tend to turn down the music when giving a direction. I already have a Garmin I can use for voice directions, what I want is the ability to hear these directions while listening to music.

Does this app (or any of the GPS apps) turn down the music to give a direction?

CoPilot announces voice directions along your iPod music, no turning down of volume. I'm satisfied with that.

Wakakanada
Aug 17, 2009, 11:19 PM
I had no problems downloading Co-pilot and loading it onto my iPhone, apart from having to make space on my iPhone [16GB 3G] for the size of the program. No crashes or hanging.

The iPod music plays at the same time through car stereo set up, with voice announcements at a good volume to hear over the music. The display is very nice in 3D mode, although some of the menu selections [such as the keyboard and contact list] look rushed and not as polished as the rest of the program graphics [rushed out to beat Tom Tom perhaps?] I hope so, as it suggests nicer graphics in an update.

My contacts appear to have been loaded automatically. All in all, I am quite happy with my $35 purchase. I don't care if it doesn't announce the names of the streets, as it shows them clearly on the display. It also displays the exit number and street for the next turn. You have lots of display options which is nice as well.

If you miss a stop, or decide not to follow the recommended route, it automatically recalculates your route, so I caught on to my route to work. Thanks god it didn't just say "Hey you missed your turn dummy, turn around" It has a good selection of British voices both male and female but only one of each for American voices [at least in the Canadian version]. Also many foreign language selections, but regrettably no Japanese. :(

I'm not interested in spending a lot of time learning computer gizmo things, and I found the app very intuitive: playing around with it allowed me to figure things out.

All in all, I am extremely happy with the purchase, my wife and I got into some heated discussions trying to find new places using the basic iPhone maps and GPS, this should afford us some roadtrip bliss :cool:

Rsquare.OB
Aug 18, 2009, 08:57 AM
Copilot will be great when:
1 - They get current maps. There are areas where I live that are more than 20 years out-of-date. My wife's Garmin and my TomTom stand-alone units have current maps. NO EXCUSE FOR NOT HAVING CURRENT MAPS.
2 - Turn-by-turn (TTS) is included. If you have to be looking at your iPhone in order to know the street name for your next turn, then it is not a good GPS unit regardless of the price.
Come on, Copilot . . . I'm pulling for you. Get the updates to include the above 2 items at a minimum, and you'll have a winner!

ufotofu
Aug 18, 2009, 10:57 AM
The maps I have in Michigan are reasonably up-to-date; less than a year, but don't have recent (a month old) road changes (Google maps doesn't either, BTW).

TTS will NOT be included, but a subscription service. I've asked for pricing but in the UK I remember seeing something on the order of $35 for 2 years. According to the ALK web site, this would provide automatic rerouting around jams and road blocks, assuming you have a data connection of some sort.

The customer support seems quite good so far. I got a reply within a few hours to some questions, including the problem that when you receive a call while CP is running, after you're finished with the call, you return to the splash screen and then have to manually exit out of it to return to navigation. This will apparently be fixed in the next update.

The free Live Link location sharing feature had this undocumented complication that your buddy has to first log in and, if not in Europe already, has to go to a preferences setting panel and set the continent and time zone in order to properly map your location:

"If you are showing in Europe it's because you need to go into your
> account settings and change this. Please log in to http://live.alk.com with your CoPilot ID, click MY ACCOUNT and then change the TIME ZONE option
> to your desired time zone."

Also, the choose a destination from the map isn't as helpful as it should be, and just allows you to pick a street, not a POI. The support guy has forwarded this complaint to the software team.



1 - They get current maps. There are areas where I live that are more than 20 years out-of-date. My wife's Garmin and my TomTom stand-alone units have current maps. NO EXCUSE FOR NOT HAVING CURRENT MAPS.
2 - Turn-by-turn (TTS) is included. If you have to be looking at your iPhone in order to know the street name for your next turn, then it is not a good GPS unit regardless of the price.
Come on, Copilot . . . I'm pulling for you. Get the updates to include the above 2 items at a minimum, and you'll have a winner!

kugino
Aug 18, 2009, 02:30 PM
The maps I have in Michigan are reasonably up-to-date; less than a year, but don't have recent (a month old) road changes (Google maps doesn't either, BTW).

TTS will NOT be included, but a subscription service. I've asked for pricing but in the UK I remember seeing something on the order of $35 for 2 years. According to the ALK web site, this would provide automatic rerouting around jams and road blocks, assuming you have a data connection of some sort.

The customer support seems quite good so far. I got a reply within a few hours to some questions, including the problem that when you receive a call while CP is running, after you're finished with the call, you return to the splash screen and then have to manually exit out of it to return to navigation. This will apparently be fixed in the next update.

The free Live Link location sharing feature had this undocumented complication that your buddy has to first log in and, if not in Europe already, has to go to a preferences setting panel and set the continent and time zone in order to properly map your location:

"If you are showing in Europe it's because you need to go into your
> account settings and change this. Please log in to http://live.alk.com with your CoPilot ID, click MY ACCOUNT and then change the TIME ZONE option
> to your desired time zone."

Also, the choose a destination from the map isn't as helpful as it should be, and just allows you to pick a street, not a POI. The support guy has forwarded this complaint to the software team.
on their website it looks like they have TTS on some of their newer devices and also have lane assist and other functionalities not currently in the iphone version. i imagine that some or all of these things will be pay services or additions...considering the price of the app, that's not a bad way to market their application. i don't want to pay a subscription for TTS, though, as i'd like to pay a one-time price to have that functionality. hope they offer it soon, though.

ZipZap
Aug 27, 2009, 06:58 PM
So if TTS is an additional price is $35 really all that great a price?

Do the other programs include TTS ?

Just curious.

Wakakanada
Aug 27, 2009, 11:52 PM
So if TTS is an additional price is $35 really all that great a price?

Do the other programs include TTS ?

Just curious.

No, I don't think they do. Personally, I don't see the need, but it seems to really get people riled up so maybe it would be something worthwhile.

eaglesteve
Aug 28, 2009, 12:22 AM
Copilot does look very nice indeed, despite it's non-iphone-like interface. The audio feedback for every key pressed is delightful.

If the map is current, if all the road contains speed limit, if the red light camera and speed camera database is up to date, then I would buy it without any second thought.

I like QWERTY keyboard but am even prepared to put up with the lousy ABC keyboard if the above requirements are met.

I don't like TTS and can never stand it. I hate hearing "Middlebrook" pronouced as "Mid-leb-rook", "edgewater" pronounced as "ed-gew-a-ter". Turn that thing off! Just tell me if it is the second road left, or next road left, without making me look for matching road sign.;)

lily.jime
Sep 1, 2009, 01:34 AM
i feel disappoint .

Rayfire
Sep 3, 2009, 09:12 PM
Just a heads up, I know not a lot of us are happy with this app but it
seems like the update is on it's way, as usual we just have to wait for
Apple's approval process :cool: I can't wait for this app to get better.

Source (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/CoPilot-Live/11956034558?ref=ts)

Wakakanada
Sep 18, 2009, 12:11 AM
Downloading the update now. Has anyone tried it out? If so, have you noticed any differences?