WWDC - No iMacs, but Yes Displays?

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret updates (http://thinksecret.com/news/wwdc04apple.html) today with a report that attempts to clarify what may be coming next week at WWDC.

According to the rumor site, new Apple Displays (20", 23", and 30") will be coming as previously reported.

However, ThinkSecret essentially eliminates an iMac update as a possibility, discounting analyst and rumor predictions of an imminent iMac update.

[AliensAreFuzzy]

No iMacs. Sad. But Displays. Yay!

[intrepkid21]

Damn..I was so excited for iMac's...guess it's iBook for me

[iJed]

Unfortunately I think this is probably true. Its a big disappointment for me since I was considering buying one of these mythical "iMac G5s" if it were released at WWDC. Tiger will more than make up for it though :D

[Fuchal]

But...
but...
but... i want a g5 imac :(

[makkystyle]

Arn, you seem to hear all the whispers, is no iMacs what you are hearing too? Appleinsider seemed pretty confidant that new iMacs were coming soon, not necessarily at WWDC, but "within weeks". Seems that there is a lot of chatter for something that is not even close :confused:

[Darwin]

Like before the preview of the new OS X will take an hour

Isn't the whole keynote 2 hours long? ;)

There has to be something to take up another hour

[Doctor Q]

This disappoints me too. I ride the waves of rumors up (new stuff!) and down (no new stuff!), and I'm still hoping for new Macs next week.

[timmyOtool]

considering all the special engineering that went into getting the G5 into the original PM, not to mention the rev b 2.5 it should not come as a suprise.

[intrepkid21]

How do you explain the iMac's not going to 1.5ghz G4's?

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple would announce iMacs at WWDC if only to smite IDG.

[appleguy]

Funny, I heard new imacs.
Droping 15" imac

17" Moves to 4:3 Ratio
20" Widescreen
23" Widescreen

anyone else heard anything.

[micvog]

I think Apple is trying to create a little FUD here. When looked at in the context of Apple's line-up, the iMac is seriously lacking. At the very least they need to bump the line to 1.5GHz G4s, 8x SuperDrives, better video, etc. However, I am still betting on sub-2.0GHz G5s.

[johnnyjibbs]

How do you explain the iMac's not going to 1.5ghz G4's?
Exactly. I think we will see G5 iMacs or at least an announcement. The iMacs weren't updated. Something gives.

And the Think Secret article completely jokes about the iMac bit - "Apple is laughing at the rumours"? I think they don't know anything. They haven't been that accurate lately anyway. It's pure speculation.

In fact, the article is written in a jovial, jokey and coloquial sort of way - completely out of sync with the normal professional and serious manner of writing that Think Secret is legendary for. Seems like they were drunk when they wrote it. :D

[quagmire]

It is bs. They are saying fall for the next imac rev. So apple stores will be out of imacs intill the fall. TS is wrong on this one. May not be on WWDC but, sometime July.

[timmyOtool]

How do you explain the iMac's not going to 1.5ghz G4's?
My guess is it will before it goes G5. Then everyone can complain about how it is a non-update.

[Mac|caM]

I'm getting tired of all this waffling back and forth every day on iMacs. Yes, no, yes, no–just give me new machines, darn it! :mad:

[narco]

I rarely heard anything about the iMacs anyway. Quite frankly, displays are much more important in my opinion.

// narco

[mklos]

Rumor sites don't have a damn clue as to what Apple's going to announce beyond a demo(preview) of Tiger. They have these so called "reliable sources" which just seem to say one thing this week, then turn around and say something else the next. Everyone a couple of weeks ago was so sure Apple was going to introduce new iMacs, and now they all say this isn't true. This is a prime example that they really don't know what they're talking about. Why do they even exist! All they do is get everyone hyped up over something that doesn't exist and then when Steve doesn't announce it everyone gets all pissed off at Apple for not introducing it.

You just wait and see after they keynote. People will start whining about Apple should of announced this, or Apple should announced that, getting all of their thoughts from these stupid rumor sites that don't know anymore than we do.

There got that off my chest.

We'll all wait and see what Apple does next monday. Then we can see which rumor site got lucky in getting something right.

[ClimbingTheLog]

It is bs. They are saying fall for the next imac rev. So apple stores will be out of imacs intill the fall. TS is wrong on this one. May not be on WWDC but, sometime July.

This is a rumor-monger's dream. AppleInsider and ThinkSecret are diametrically opposed on this one.

We'll soon see which has the street cred.

Edit: mklos is right, they both have a 50/50 chance.

[gorkonapple]

One thing that may happen at WWDC is they may announce they are working on the G5 iMac.....but they may not reveal the specific specs. Now that the PowerMac line is all Dual processor, they need the iMac to be the single processor machine. My bet, iMac's will come out in time for Christmas.

[Mac|caM]

Funny, I heard new imacs.
Droping 15" imac

17" Moves to 4:3 Ratio
20" Widescreen
23" Widescreen

anyone else heard anything.

23" screens? That's almost ridiculous. They'd have to add another 15 lbs. to the base to counter the screen's weight, like they did with the 20". Plus it would look totally silly.

[joeboy_45101]

Wasn't it a couple of Keynote's back when everybody was saying that Apple's presentation wasn't going to be much, and then Steve revealed something great like the New iMacs or the PowerMacs, or something like that. I can't remember which Keynote it was but didn't Jobs saying something like, "Well, I guess you can't always believe what you read."

Personally I like the current design of the iMac. I think if they would do any kind of upgrade it would be: replace the plastic shell of the current iMac with stainless steel, add a G5 processor(in the sub 2Ghz range), and add a detachable screen. This detachable screen would have touch screen capabilities and would be able to communicate with iMac's body through Airport. With the recent introduction of Airport Express this would be ideal for being able to do work anyplace in your home or office. This detachable screen wouldn't exactly be a tablet since it would not have any components built into it such as Harddrive or SuperDrive/ComboDrive, since those would be in the "basestation body" part.

Of course I could be completely wrong, but that does sound like an interesting concept. :)

[timmyOtool]

I wonder if these new screens have some sort of new magical features or are they just the same old thing dressed up and resized

[Downdivx]

Does anyone have a copy of think secret's new display graphics?
Thanks
W

[nsb3000]

ThinkSecret updates (http://thinksecret.com/news/wwdc04apple.html) today with a report that attempts to clarify what may be coming next week at WWDC.

According to the rumor site, new Apple Displays (20", 23", and 30") will be coming as previously reported.

However, ThinkSecret essentially eliminates an iMac update as a possibility, discounting analyst and rumor predictions of an imminent iMac update.

This is bad. When Think Secret says there will be no iMacs..there will be no iMacs. If apple only introduce new displays, there are going to be a lot of disappoint mac fans around here...

[appleguy]

23" screens? That's almost ridiculous. They'd have to add another 15 lbs. to the base to counter the screen's weight, like they did with the 20". Plus it would look totally silly.

Thats what I told the guys that told me...
Then I asked them what are they on...
But who knows it might not be a half ball anymore??? anyone care to suggest any new iMac Base designs?? maybe it could be a full sphere that hovers 3 inches above your desk.. :p

[intrepkid21]

Look, if the G4's in the current iMac's did not go to 1.5 ghz when the powerbooks and emac's did, and the stores have like no supply of these computers, what is Apple doing..discontinuing the system that saved them until it can handle a G5? I'm not too sure about that...

[slipper]

no imac updates would be a complete disapointment! iMacs dont compare to the eMacs anymore if you factor in pricing. Looking at each of the product lines, it would make perfect sense for the imac to have a single processor G5. otherwise the product lines for apple would go from cheap/lowend: emac,imac > midend: NOTHING > highend: powermac

now im not saying the G4 is a lowend processor, its still competitive compared to a P4 but considering apples new technology it is.

[intrepkid21]

Maybe announcing a new G4 for the imac? lol :p

[nsb3000]

Funny, I heard new imacs.
Droping 15" imac

17" Moves to 4:3 Ratio
20" Widescreen
23" Widescreen

anyone else heard anything.

I am getting kind of tired of Apples "well we don't have a faster processor, so lets just slap a bigger monitor on it" policy towards imacs. The problem with this is that they don't make them any cheaper when they do this. What does the 20' iMac cost? $2000? For a "consumer" machine. It is ridiculous.

Apple needs to do something with the imac, and just slapping, yet bigger display on them is not the answer... :(

[timmyOtool]

Look, if the G4's in the current iMac's did not go to 1.5 ghz when the powerbooks and emac's did, and the stores have like no supply of these computers, what is Apple doing..discontinuing the system that saved them until it can handle a G5? I'm not too sure about that...
I hate to be the doom and gloom guy around here, but things have not quite went as expected with the G5. Now this is only a guess backed by no facts, but my guess is that they planned to have a g5 imac, then ran into a wall, a really hot wall. Expect a slapped together 1.5 g4 wiz bang non-update quietly released in a month or two.

[nsb3000]

Look, if the G4's in the current iMac's did not go to 1.5 ghz when the powerbooks and emac's did, and the stores have like no supply of these computers, what is Apple doing..discontinuing the system that saved them until it can handle a G5? I'm not too sure about that...

Maybe your right. I normally think of Think Secret as a lock-in. There info is usually late (as in, only a few days) but highly accurate. But maybe they are wrong this time.. I hope so anyway. I guess we will just have to wait tilll monday..

[SiliconAddict]

Sounds like there isn't going to be a whole **** of alot at WWDC.

[macridah]

Ah man, I wanted a G5 iMac cuz I couldn't wait for a G5 powerbook and can't afford a powermac.

I'll cross my fingers and just have to wait for monday.

Could Tiger really be that awesome to talk about during the WWDC. There has to be other jaw dropping announcement.

[macmumma]

I think that Steve will stand up there, go on and on about Tiger, and then, he will release a wifi ipod, the rumored monitors, and he WILL reveal the new G5 iMac. 1.8Ghz, 2 GHZ and a 2.5 (single) with a massive screen :mad:

[rdowns]

What a perfect end to this crappy day. What a lousy day at work. Been waiting for a new iMac for months now and could almost taste it and then I come home, open a beer and find this thread. I guess I'll be back to placing my mouse pad on the floor, facing Cupertino and praying that Apple will take my damn money.

Those bastards, as much as I don't want a PM due to its size, they're going to force me into buyng one.

[itsa]

I would think G5 imac is not up coming before a G5 powerbook.
It just does not add up. That would all but kill apple. You just can't have your low end, out working your pro line.
I'm sure they have them made, but just can not send it to the line yet.

[Garissimo]

Look, if the G4's in the current iMac's did not go to 1.5 ghz when the powerbooks and emac's did, and the stores have like no supply of these computers, what is Apple doing..discontinuing the system that saved them until it can handle a G5? I'm not too sure about that...

This sums it up! And let me add that I think it would be a shame to discontinue the current iMac form factor. If the base has to grow a little, so be it. It's still a fantastic package - elegant, quiet and space efficient. It's like a Porsche 911 in a world of SUVs.

[snahabed]

I personally don't get the current iMac... if I were in the market, I would either have money and/or want power (namely, G5 and display), or have little money and/or just need sufficient power (namely, eMac).

Is the iMac just for the eMac audience with chub for a flat screen? Seems to be so! I would NEVER spend that much more money for a non-removable display... which isn't to knock the design marvel of the iMac. Then again, the Cube was marvelous as well.

Anyway, I get that I am not the target for the machines, but they really ought to be updated... not even necessarily with a G5, but just UPDATED.

Yes, Apple, we get it. You can't get the G5 in a tight little iMac space. FINE. So in the meantime, why not add OTHER value to the G4 iMac line? Add RAM to base configurations, better graphics cards, bigger hard drives, built in airport/bluetooth, and/or lower price -- SOMETHING to add some value to the aging line. Or just pull a flower/dalmatian and release limited edition colors in the Mini shades. There are lots of ways to update the iMac and increase sales before the G5 or a design change even enter the picture.

[Dreamail]

The one question that puzzles me is whether Apple ever refreshed its whole display line (with a new look) - just on its own?

We've been waiting for aluminium displays for more than a year now. Why would Apple introduce them all of a sudden? Just because now is the time they depleted stocks? Then why introduce them at WWDC at all? Why not just do a press release as Apple did with the new PowerMacs?

As far as I remember, completely redesigned screens were always introduced alongside new hardware that needed those screens.

So maybe if new screens are indeed introduced at WWDC, a new Mac might also get introduced?
- a headless iMac?
- a new Cube or other small desktop Mac?
- a workstation class quad CPU Mac?

(At least our funky French rumor mongers (http://croquer.free.fr/) talk about prototype quad CPU G5 motherboards.
I know that the current liquid cooling block wouldn't fit twice in a PowerMac case, but who is to say that a quad CPU motherboard wouldn't come with a differently designed liquid cooling block, one which fits yet cools 4 CPUs?
And since IBM obviously has problems scaling the CPU speed, one way to go is sideways by differentiating Macs via their number of CPUs not their speed: iMacs 1, PowerMacs 2, MacStation 4)

[melgross]

I think that Steve will stand up there, go on and on about Tiger, and then, he will release a wifi ipod, the rumored monitors, and he WILL reveal the new G5 iMac. 1.8Ghz, 2 GHZ and a 2.5 (single) with a massive screen :mad:

It's a good thing someone has a good sense of humor around here.

I hope they do come out with the new iMacs though. My broker called and suggested that I sell my stock because it's gone up so much lately. I refused when it was 33.5. It ended at 33.18 as a result of this announcement, so I hope it's wrong.

By the way, whatever happened to MacOSRumors?

[snahabed]

Oh I also want to remind people that this is WWDC, not a MacExpo.

Just because Steve Jobs HAS in the past used WWDC as a platform for introducing new products, we should view that as the exception and not the rule.

We should expect nothing outside of a Tiger preview. If he introduces something else, nice bonus. I don't want to hear any whiney brats pissing on about "No PowerBook G5! No iMac G5! No Video iPod! And what about the PDA and tablet?!?!!?"

All that said, I honestly have NO idea what Tiger is going to be like. Besides making it faster, I cannot think of anything I would like that Panther does not have. And frankly, Panther is already fast enough on my under-1GHZ G4.

[afields]

If Thinksecret is right I have one question: Why haven't they put a 1.5 g4 in the imac then? If they are right what has been the hold up, they could've at least provided a speed bump. I mean, emac blows away the imac right now in terms of value. Thats a hole in thinksecret's argument, IMO- I really hope their wrong.

:(

[ClimbingTheLog]

I personally don't get the current iMac... if I were in the market, I would either have money and/or want power (namely, G5 and display), or have little money and/or just need sufficient power (namely, eMac).

Don't forget about have money/want desk space and fashion choice.

You walk into a NY fashion magazine and find all the clerical staff using:
a) G5's, hidden under their desk with 21" CRT's on the desk.
b) everybody with a tiny iMac/17 on their desk.

Envision it.

The G5 is meant to be hidden, the iMac is meant to be shown. Don't underestimate the power of aesthetics on rich folks' buying patterns. How many people fit this category? Oh, a little more than 3%.

[Fukui]

Could Tiger really be that awesome to talk about during the WWDC.
If they included WINELib + Mono, maybe even an Enterprise Objects comeback, yes.

[Dreamail]

Thats a hole in thinksecret's argument, IMO
That's why I like the rumor about the new iMacs being headless, requiring an external screen. At that point it does make sense to introduce new screens as well. Especially if they are DVI since the new iMacs could be produced cheaper without ADC.

But the (potential) hole in that argument is the lack of a low-end Apple display. Something like 15" or 16". But perhaps most people have such a display and hence they would not be interested in getting a new one from Apple. And also the market is so over saturated with cheap displays in that segment that Apple could never compete.

Another potential hole: Would Apple introduce aluminium displays (also) intended for a consumer iMac? Would the new iMacs also be silver aluminium (paving the way for e.g. black aluminium for the next G6 PowerMacs)?

[JGowan]

Personally I like the current design of the iMac.I agree. And if it didn't cost so much to produce, they probably wouldn't be changing them quite so soon. They've certainly gotten themselves between a rock and a hard place with this. They now have to produce an iMac computer that's more attractive and ground-breaking than the last and they have to do it for less money. Otherwise, people just won't buy 'em... "Give us back our old 'new' imacs!"

Speaking of that... what do you think they'll call it? The current style is called the "New iMac" to distingish it from the original.

Hmmm?

[jjmaximum]

How long does it take between assembly and announcement? Seems that if they are making them, they would know what the specs are :rolleyes:

[Garissimo]

Don't forget about have money/want desk space and fashion choice.

You walk into a NY fashion magazine and find all the clerical staff using:
a) G5's, hidden under their desk with 21" CRT's on the desk.
b) everybody with a tiny iMac/17 on their desk.

Envision it.

The G5 is meant to be hidden, the iMac is meant to be shown. Don't underestimate the power of aesthetics on rich folks' buying patterns. How many people fit this category? Oh, a little more than 3%.

It is a sexy computer, no question. I honestly don't know how many people buy it for this reason.

A more tangible advantage of the iMac is that it's whisper quiet, which is important if you have a sensitive microphone in the same room as your computer.

[snahabed]

Fair enough, though personally I think people having towers under the desk and flat panel displays (not crt) on the desk is classier and more minimalist... the iMac would be a little cutesy for any office that i would run!!

Don't forget about have money/want desk space and fashion choice.

You walk into a NY fashion magazine and find all the clerical staff using:
a) G5's, hidden under their desk with 21" CRT's on the desk.
b) everybody with a tiny iMac/17 on their desk.

Envision it.

The G5 is meant to be hidden, the iMac is meant to be shown. Don't underestimate the power of aesthetics on rich folks' buying patterns. How many people fit this category? Oh, a little more than 3%.

[LaMerVipere]

As someone on Apple Insider said,

Think Secret - January 2003: No New PowerBooks (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/mwsf03apple.html) :D

TS isn't the end all, know all, of the Apple rumours world!

[jimthorn]

I really hope the keynote will be available as Quicktime either live or a couple days later (or both).

[wdlove]

I'm not disappointed at all by no iMac announcement. My hope is that the displays will look better than the last picture I saw.

[coolfactor]

I wonder if these new screens have some sort of new magical features or are they just the same old thing dressed up and resized

Yes, they'll be in an Aluminum shell, use DVI instead of ADC, and have two Firewire and two USB ports on them.

Or, they'll be holographic, be translucent, be touch-sensitive, fold up into the size of a wallet, be solar-powered, make coffee and toast, watch your children, and even do the laundry. :D

[johnpaul191]

Could Tiger really be that awesome to talk about during the WWDC. There has to be other jaw dropping announcement.

do you know what WWDC stands for? World Wide Developer Conference. DEVELOPER, not consumer. That may be why there is no webcasting of the event. The point of the conference of the whole event is for developers to learn what's in the new OS revision. The keynote is open, but a lot of the other stuff is NDA kind of stuff.

anything more than 10.4 chatter is bonus. last year they HAD to release the G5s since there is a lot of 10.3 that would have tipped everyone off. remember developers walk out with a beta copy.

[MentalFabric]

...my guess is that they planned to have a g5 imac, then ran into a wall, a really hot wall.

I don't think heat is quite as big a problem with the iMac (particularly with possible new form factor) as they'd probably scale the speed down... imagine 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 ghz iMacs, the processors would run much cooler, and there need only be one...

[paulypants]

I would think G5 imac is not up coming before a G5 powerbook.
It just does not add up. That would all but kill apple. You just can't have your low end, out working your pro line.
I'm sure they have them made, but just can not send it to the line yet.

STOOOOPPPP!!!!!

Laptops are NOT on par with desktops PERIOD.

The number #1 priority for a portable is to be portable.
Power is second. You cannot look at desktops and laptops
being in the same categories. PowerBooks are NOT PowerMacs.
The only similarity is some marketing ( ie: Power) to streamline
the products, that's it.

If people want a G5 right now than they should just get a desktop.

[spencecb]

Bottom line is, no one knows, so lets just wait until Monday and we can all find out together!

[PRØBE]

I am getting kind of tired of Apples "well we don't have a faster processor, so lets just slap a bigger monitor on it" policy towards imacs. The problem with this is that they don't make them any cheaper when they do this. What does the 20' iMac cost? $2000? For a "consumer" machine. It is ridiculous.

Apple needs to do something with the imac, and just slapping, yet bigger display on them is not the answer... :(





Well over here in Portugal, the 20" imac costs no less than 2500 Euros (3030 dollars) and the 17" 2000 Euros (2424 dollars) Stick that up your "prosumer" Apple. These machine look nice, but are old old spec and ought to be selling for 60% of that price IMO

[bob_the_gorilla]

I hate to be the doom and gloom guy around here, but things have not quite went as expected with the G5. Now this is only a guess backed by no facts, but my guess is that they planned to have a g5 imac, then ran into a wall, a really hot wall. Expect a slapped together 1.5 g4 wiz bang non-update quietly released in a month or two.

I don't want to agree on this one - it's nice to think of Apple as having a god-like Master Plan that makes perfect sense, and which mere mortals can only glimpse - but it's probably true that they've hit heat problems. That's what happened with the PMs after all. That and the apparent lack of a webcast point to disappointment.

Steve said at the start of the year that 2004 was going to be an exciting year with lots of new products. So, we've seen AirPort Express, iPod Your BMW and some minor product upgrades. Cool as APE et al are, they don't really count as an exciting product-filled year. What are you hiding, Apple? Don't make me cry! :(

[Sabbath]

Somehow, Tiger and Displays just doesn't seem enough for a 2hour keynote, sure it could last an hour but Steve likes to have a lot to go with. Last year we had Panther, which I believe was closer to being finished than Tiger will be, G5s and even time for iSights! So I would expect something more, maybe something small though.

Think Secret argues a new iMac would require a big show and webcast, so either WWDC isn't a big consumer thing this year, and there will be some other place for announcements before Paris Expo. Similar to NAB? I hadn't heard of that before this year? As surely iMacs must be updated before September, and there doesn't seem to be many current iMacs out there at the moment.

I guess we'll find out soon

[aethier]

Wasn't it a couple of Keynote's back when everybody was saying that Apple's presentation wasn't going to be much, and then Steve revealed something great like the New iMacs or the PowerMacs, or something like that. I can't remember which Keynote it was but didn't Jobs saying something like, "Well, I guess you can't always believe what you read."



i believe that to have been the one with the intro of the twelve and 17 inch AL|PB, as no rumor website was forcasting updates, as it had been already updated (the 15 inch) in november.

aethier

[QCassidy352]

the imac line is, frankly, an embarrassment at this point. It's the power of an emac for a little less than a G5 powermac. Add to that the fact that Apple has already told suppliers that no more of the current imacs will be getting delivered... what does that say to you?

The only reason I'd say no imacs is that this is a developers conference and the imacs are a consumer machine... but still. Continuing to leave them at this price and power is just absurd. Apple has been selling very few imacs, and it's no wonder why. They need either A) massive price drops, B) massive upgrades, or C) to be discontinued entirely.

Apple has done some dumb things in the past, but we already know the current line up has been discontinued. So it's either new imacs, or the end of imacs.

[LaMerVipere]

I hate to be the doom and gloom guy around here, but things have not quite went as expected with the G5. Now this is only a guess backed by no facts, but my guess is that they planned to have a g5 imac, then ran into a wall, a really hot wall. Expect a slapped together 1.5 g4 wiz bang non-update quietly released in a month or two.

Well keep in mind that Think Secret also says that the new iMacs are already in production in Asia, so clearly, if thats true, there was no engineering hurdly Apple couldn't overcome! :)

[aswitcher]

This is going to be a big test of thinksecrets credibility.

If they are right then kudos but if they are wrong then I think they will loose major cred.

Damn shame if the new G5iMacs dont appear soon...it must be hurting Apple sales bigtime...

[bob_the_gorilla]

do you know what WWDC stands for? World Wide Developer Conference. DEVELOPER, not consumer. That may be why there is no webcasting of the event. The point of the conference of the whole event is for developers to learn what's in the new OS revision. The keynote is open, but a lot of the other stuff is NDA kind of stuff.

anything more than 10.4 chatter is bonus. last year they HAD to release the G5s since there is a lot of 10.3 that would have tipped everyone off. remember developers walk out with a beta copy.

Agreed, but it's a big occasion, Mr Jobs is a showman and brand new hardware has developer opportunities. We'll see.

As for the webcast - I'm peeved. I'm as interested in what Tiger has to offer as any anonymous developer dude (or dudette). Shame on you, Apple.

[QCassidy352]

one other thing - as someone else pointed out, it's interesting that appleinsider and thinksecret are diametrically opposed on this one, both citing "multiple sources inside apple." Do we really have any reason to believe one of them over the other?

(arn, any of your sources know anything??)

[PRØBE]

This is going to be a big test of thinksecrets credibility.

If they are right then kudos but if they are wrong then I think they will loose major cred.

Damn shame if the new G5iMacs dont appear soon...it must be hurting Apple sales bigtime...





What is it about this word that's so damn hard to spell?
Are you all doing this just to annoy me?
(Sorry but I always get pre-potential product announcement "loose" intolerance syndrome) Must be all the excitement.
By the way, it's L O S E!
Rant over :)

[dongmin]

It is bs. They are saying fall for the next imac rev. So apple stores will be out of imacs intill the fall. TS is wrong on this one. May not be on WWDC but, sometime July.

Where do people get the impression that Apple is out of stock on the iMacs??? I just tried buying the 17". Estimated shipping: 'Same bus. day.' That doesn't sound like out of stock to me.

As far as rumor consistency goes, Thinksecret has NEVER suggested that iMacs be updated at WWDC. They haven't mentioned a peep about iMacs, so they're being consistent. Appleinsider, on the other hand... I have to go with Thinksecret on this one. But we'll know soon enough.

[germ war]

Call it a hunch, but I think iMacs are getting discontinued in lieu of something new. I think Apple is somehow going to upgrade the eMac line in the not-too-distant future, possibly going flatscreen like the current iMacs, and doing something completely different altogether with the eMac-to-PowerMac bridge. Return of the Cube? Who knows? None of the rumors sites, apparently.

[Dreamail]

I'm as interested in what Tiger has to offer as any anonymous developer dude (or dudette). Shame on you, Apple.
Maybe the stuff SJ will show is under NDA? Tiger is quite a few months off so perhaps Apple wants things to be kept under wraps for a little while longer.
And with no webcast Apple has more control over what is presented to the public via Apple's web page.

Also it could be that some Tiger stuff is not stable enough to demo live. We know how much SJ hates crashing demos. A delayed webcast gives Apple the chance to edit out any 'hiccups'.

[BeigeUser]

one other thing - as someone else pointed out, it's interesting that appleinsider and thinksecret are diametrically opposed on this one, both citing "multiple sources inside apple." Do we really have any reason to believe one of them over the other?

Maybe because Think Secret has a much better track record than appleinsider. Many are quick to point out the few errors that Think Secret has made in the past. But remember that they have made much more accurate predictions than mistakes. And although I don't really have any data to back this up, they seem to be the best of the rumor sites.

[joeboy_45101]

Wasn't it a couple of Keynote's back when everybody was saying that Apple's presentation wasn't going to be much, and then Steve revealed something great like the New iMacs or the PowerMacs, or something like that. I can't remember which Keynote it was but didn't Jobs saying something like, "Well, I guess you can't always believe what you read."

Personally I like the current design of the iMac. I think if they would do any kind of upgrade it would be: replace the plastic shell of the current iMac with stainless steel, add a G5 processor(in the sub 2Ghz range), and add a detachable screen. This detachable screen would have touch screen capabilities and would be able to communicate with iMac's body through Airport. With the recent introduction of Airport Express this would be ideal for being able to do work anyplace in your home or office. This detachable screen wouldn't exactly be a tablet since it would not have any components built into it such as Harddrive or SuperDrive/ComboDrive, since those would be in the "basestation body" part.

Of course I could be completely wrong, but that does sound like an interesting concept. :)

Let me just follow up on my earlier idea,

I don't believe a touchscreen would be neccessary for a detachable iMac screen. Apple already has a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, so that would take care of any user input. If I'm correct then the screen would have a flip-out pedestal, sort of like a picture frame on a desk. "Portable Desktop Computing", an interesting oxymoron.

Now, I've heard all the practical rumors about the upcoming iMacs (exactly when, I don't know); headless iMac, pizzabox iMac, wireless mouse and keyboard iMac, and so on. Well this design would be a headless iMac(whenever the user decided to "pop" the screen off the body unit, the neck acting as some kind of antenna and power supply), it could also be a pizzabox iMac(maybe a reference to the screen unit), utilizing the wireless mouse and keyboard for when you remove the screen. A removeable screen could also allow for screen upgrades in the future. The speculatory peices fit together here.

[appleface]

maybe...just maybe, steve's got a fat rabbit up his sleeve.

with the rumors of hanging displays, rumors of wifi keyboard and mouse coming standard on the new "imac," and the reality of airport express exporting to speakers; maybe apple's changing the design of its consumer computer. maybe the new mac won't be an "imac." maybe apple will come through on its promise of making the core to your digital life. think different.

[aethier]

the imac line is, frankly, an embarrassment at this point. It's the power of an emac for a little less than a G5 powermac. Add to that the fact that Apple has already told suppliers that no more of the current imacs will be getting delivered... what does that say to you?

The only reason I'd say no imacs is that this is a developers conference and the imacs are a consumer machine... but still. Continuing to leave them at this price and power is just absurd. Apple has been selling very few imacs, and it's no wonder why. They need either A) massive price drops, B) massive upgrades, or C) to be discontinued entirely.

Apple has done some dumb things in the past, but we already know the current line up has been discontinued. So it's either new imacs, or the end of imacs.

more then i think putting the LCD on the imac when it got rev amped to G4, ruined the iMac. as it went from being the "powerfull" cheap all in one at 799$, to mediocer power, at like 2000 or something. it wasn't nearly the success apple hope for, and you can back that up by checking apple's PR library for the quarter results. before the g4 imac, they were selling an average of about 700-800 000 imacs per quarter. now they are selling about 200 000 imacs per quarter, and 800 000 computers in total. the eMac is pretty much what the iMac would have been had it not gone LCD, but again it is kind off ugly, and people don't seem to be buying it as much as the g3 imacs.

aethier

[Phat_Pat]

Call it a hunch, but I think iMacs are getting discontinued in lieu of something new.

Yeah it'll be called an aMac (a for advanced) it'll be right inbetween the power of a emac and a pm. Its price will be dirt cheap and it will blow away the competitors. It will be screen less but for a limited time offer you will be able to get 50% off of a new 30" screen. People will line up for miles to get their amacs. They'll be low on stock just like the iPod Mini also, by the way was denied just like the iMacs are right now............

it makes you think......






i want a aMac :D

[Squire]

Agreed, but it's a big occasion, Mr Jobs is a showman and brand new hardware has developer opportunities. We'll see.

As for the webcast - I'm peeved. I'm as interested in what Tiger has to offer as any anonymous developer dude (or dudette). Shame on you, Apple.

I agree. And with Steve giving MacWorld Expos the cold shoulder of late, I think we can expect a few other goodies. (Of course, without the broadcast, maybe we should assume less.) So it's one hour with Tiger and, as others have pointed out, the new displays. How long could a display introduction take? "You plug it in here, and the picture appears here. See how nice and big it is! Oh, and we've added a few ports. Yes, it's a nice new display!"

What about a new remote-control type of device to interact with Airport Express? What about other software?

Squire

[joeboy_45101]

maybe...just maybe, steve's got a fat rabbit up his sleeve.

with the rumors of hanging displays, rumors of wifi keyboard and mouse coming standard on the new "imac," and the reality of airport express exporting to speakers; maybe apple's changing the design of its consumer computer. maybe the new mac won't be an "imac." maybe apple will come through on its promise of making the core to your digital life. think different.

With my idea you could call the iMac the wiMac. :o

[bob_the_gorilla]

Maybe the stuff SJ will show is under NDA? Tiger is quite a few months off so perhaps Apple wants things to be kept under wraps for a little while longer.
And with no webcast Apple has more control over what is presented to the public via Apple's web page.

Also it could be that some Tiger stuff is not stable enough to demo live. We know how much SJ hates crashing demos. A delayed webcast gives Apple the chance to edit out any 'hiccups'.

Ok, IMHO, the first part is rubbish - you can't show stuff to a room full of people and expect them to keep it quiet.

The second part I'm more willing to believe. An edited video later might prevent red faces if Tiger goes belly-up on stage.

[quagmire]

Where do people get the impression that Apple is out of stock on the iMacs??? I just tried buying the 17". Estimated shipping: 'Same bus. day.' That doesn't sound like out of stock to me.

As far as rumor consistency goes, Thinksecret has NEVER suggested that iMacs be updated at WWDC. They haven't mentioned a peep about iMacs, so they're being consistent. Appleinsider, on the other hand... I have to go with Thinksecret on this one. But we'll know soon enough.

When I said apple stores, I meant the retail stores. There was an article on appleinsider.com about apple no longer is supplying Powermac G5(pre rev b) and imac G4 to retail stores. They are still available at the online store.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=474

[aethier]

Ok, IMHO, the first part is rubbish - you can't show stuff to a room full of people and expect them to keep it quiet.

The second part I'm more willing to believe. An edited video later might prevent red faces if Tiger goes belly-up on stage.

yeah,but even if it is for editing reasons, i am sure someone who is there will mention that it crashed....

windows 98 crashed when gates was demoing it, people had a laugh and got over it, (probably because they thought the final build wouldn't be the same level of stability)

my point thought, it is a beta, everyone watching knows it is a beta. its not the end of the world, if the *beta* crashes.
aethier

[morkintosh]

I think Apple is trying to create a little FUD here. When looked at in the context of Apple's line-up, the iMac is seriously lacking. At the very least they need to bump the line to 1.5GHz G4s, 8x SuperDrives, better video, etc. However, I am still betting on sub-2.0GHz G5s.

I don't know how anyone could possibly "bet" G5 iMacs at this point; it just isn't going to happen. The G5 is a helluva chip but she runs a little warm, even in that giant enclosure sitting under my desk (my office is noticable warmer since moving from a G4 iMac to the G5). In order for the comsumer flagship to keep it's trendy form factor it will have to stay a G4. That aside, a G5 iMac would narrow the gap between high-end and consumer products way too much, and Apple isn't going to alienate it's deep pocket customers who love bragging rights.

Maybe a new form factor on Monday but I doubt it ... it would just piss people off to do a iMac form factor update with a G4, and there were enough pissed off people after that lack luster power mac update a few weeks a go. I'd look for a 1.5GhZ iMac with some slightly modified specs.

[Dreamail]

Ok, IMHO, the first part is rubbish - you can't show stuff to a room full of people and expect them to keep it quiet.
Sorry if this wasn't clear enough.
Of course they won't keep quiet. And they don't have to unless Apple makes them all sign an NDA (which is unlikely given the huge audience).
But it's one thing having people write about the new features adding a hastily shot video or picture - vs. the full experience in QT quality.
Apple surely will tout Tiger on its web page once presented at WWDC, but perhaps Apple does not intend to present all features in as much detail as to the keynote audience.

[må¥å]

I agree people get all hyped up over rumours before a Mac show and when products are announced and its something that doesn't live up to the rumour(s) hype they complain.

Sit back and watch the show its fun to speculate what new hardware and software will be announced however leave it to that.

speaking of:

Loose (wrong) - Lose (correct)

rumors (wrong) - rumours (correct)

check (wrong) - cheque (correct)

its a shame we have powerful computers with spell check and don't use even a portion of its power :)

Plus it would seem people are getting agiteated since they can no longer predict Apple's product releases, I think Apple is doing this to get the rumour sites off track.

It won't however still funny people who depend on rumour sites on buying hardware can be seen as a positive and(or) negative thing.

Before WWDC :) :D :confused:
During WWDC :rolleyes: ;) :eek:
After WWDC :mad: :( :confused:

Cheers mates

[stefman]

Yessss!! new screens at last!!...it was about time...I badly nned a new screen!

[bob_the_gorilla]

rumors (wrong) - rumours (correct)

check (wrong) - cheque (correct)

I'd love to re-educate Americans, but unfortunately I don't see it happening :p

Don't take offence, guys and gals, but I really do find your spellings amusing sometimes. Especially "sulfur". Tee hee.

Oh, and I think I spotted a "should of" earlier, which is a definite grammatical no-no. It's should have, hence the contraction "should've" - which, of course, sounds like "should of" - hence the confusion.

Sorry, my parents were really persistent in correcting my language use.

Anyway... These new displays. Am I the only one thinking who the hell cares? I mean, it's a display. You look at things on it. If the current ones were pig ugly, I might be interested. However, they're actually rather good-looking. So, a slightly larger display, which costs more than my yearly rent, and requires a Mac of a similar price to run it, now in classy aluminium (please take notice of spelling, and pronounce accordingly :) ) instead of classy aqua-esque plastics. Big deal!

Anyway, this article is only a clarification of TS's existing opinions. Everyone's acting like it's brand new information, and gospel truth. Neither of which is true!

I'm off to take a chill pill.

[Squire]

I agree people get all hyped up over rumours before a Mac show and when products are announced and its something that doesn't live up to the rumour(s) hype they complain.

Sit back and watch the show its fun to speculate what new hardware and software will be announced however leave it to that.

speaking of:

Loose (wrong) - Lose (correct)

rumors (wrong) - rumours (correct)

check (wrong) - cheque (correct)

its a shame we have powerful computers with spell check and don't use even a portion of its power :)

Funny you mention that. Loose is probably the most commonly misspelled word on these boards. (The other two, you realize, are simply Americanized spellings.)

As for product announcements, I'd like to think there's going to be a ton of new stuff announced. I think, though, that we should expect very little and be content - then get blown away if there are some new treats.

Squire

[BornAgainMac]

One more thing...

New iMac:

17-inch widescreen LCD
1.33 Ghz PowerPC G4 (New!)
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
128MB DDR video memory (New!)
56k internal modem
512MB DDR333 SDRAM (New!)
120 GB Ultra ATA hard drive (New!)
8x Superdrive (New!)
AirPort Extreme Ready
Long-in-the-Bluetooth Option

$1,599.00 (At a new reduced price!)

[Squire]

Anyway... These new displays. Am I the only one thinking who the hell cares? I mean, it's a display. You look at things on it. If the current ones were pig ugly, I might be interested. However, they're actually rather good-looking. So, a slightly larger display, which costs more than my yearly rent, and requires a Mac of a similar price to run it, now in classy aluminium (please take notice of spelling, and pronounce accordingly :) ) instead of classy aqua-esque plastics. Big deal!


I'm with you, bob. Unfortunately, I'm not in the market for 5 grand worth of computer. That is, essentially, what a Powermac and kickass display would cost.

Someone mentioned the removable display iMac before. Although I don't really see the need for a Tablet, taking the screen off my iMac and surfing the Web in bed instead of, say, reading a book would be kind of neat.

I guess I hope Apple just introduces something I can afford. ;)

Squire

[intrepkid21]

One more thing...

New iMac:

17-inch widescreen LCD
1.33 Ghz PowerPC G4 (New!)
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
128MB DDR video memory (New!)
56k internal modem
512MB DDR333 SDRAM (New!)
120 GB Ultra ATA hard drive (New!)
8x Superdrive (New!)
AirPort Extreme Ready
Long-in-the-Bluetooth Option

$1,599.00 (At a new reduced price!)

Sign me up if its 1.5 ghz

[wizard]

The current iMacs are old and expensive in any market they are in. Grossly expensive if you ask me. TS mus be wrong on this item, atleast in part.

The replacement iMacs may not come at the WWDC but it will have to be soon. Apple can't have a product sitting in its catalog that doesn't sell. Make no sense at all.

No maybe what TS doesn't know or maybe didn't pick up on is that the iMac may be replaced with something else. No iMac at WWDC may mean just that. It could also mean the end of the line. Maybe the next consumer machine is something different completely.

Dave

Well over here in Portugal, the 20" imac costs no less than 2500 Euros (3030 dollars) and the 17" 2000 Euros (2424 dollars) Stick that up your "prosumer" Apple. These machine look nice, but are old old spec and ought to be selling for 60% of that price IMO

[nsb3000]

I agree. And with Steve giving MacWorld Expos the cold shoulder of late, I think we can expect a few other goodies. (Of course, without the broadcast, maybe we should assume less.) So it's one hour with Tiger and, as others have pointed out, the new displays. How long could a display introduction take? "You plug it in here, and the picture appears here. See how nice and big it is! Oh, and we've added a few ports. Yes, it's a nice new display!"
Squire

You forget about the Steve Jobs reality distortion filed. If anyone can make a LCD display seem revolutionary, its Steve Jobs.

[jwmci]

If you were Apple and a very large percentage of your legacy customers were not developing on Xcode, but on Codewarrior, the most exciting thing you could announce at the WWDC is a Codewarrior "killer." This could be the Xcode 1.5 with the capability to import Codewarriors. If it worked well, a number of fence-sitters could be pushed into the Xcode conversion which means many nice things.

The biggest things it means is that more software would take advantage of Cocoa and that all those developers would need new G5 development systems.

[zoozx]

Unless some new dramatic technology comes with the new screens,
Color calibration stabilization and color and contrast accuracy, and the price drops a lot to a realistic amount to be competitive, who gives a rats ass if they are metal.
Show me the beef and forget the fluff apple.

[wizard]

Well how about a 90nm G4 running at 2.5GHz would that put people off? I'm with you on the heat issue, plus Apple has stated that the G4 will be around for awhile, so maybe this is a reasonable alternative?

Manufacture that G4 with an on board memory controller and it will perform very nearly like a 970 based machine. At 90nm it should be very cool. Its a possibility!

I'd prefer to see Apple go 970 across the board but there are a couple of issues with that. Heat still is an issue along with the outlandish chip set requirments. Chip sets can be addressed but heat appears to be with us for awhile. The other problem is that there is great danger in getting into bed to deeply with any one PPC vendor. Apple needs to cultivate a alternative PPC vendor just to keep each of them on their toes. Either could loose leadership in technology so alternative are best maintianed.

Just look at what AMD has done with its technology. The literally have caused the giant Intel to shuffle its plans. There is good reason for Apple to maintain competition with respect to the PPC platform. Unfortuantely Apple is not that huge of a customer for either manufacture, thus the need for them to attack market share and for alternative hardware implementations. In other words not only do Apple/IBM & Freescale need to grow Mac market share they need alternatives (motherboards and Linux) to keep Freescale and IBM healthy with respect ot PPC.

DAve




Maybe a new form factor on Monday but I doubt it ... it would just piss people off to do a iMac form factor update with a G4, and there were enough pissed off people after that lack luster power mac update a few weeks a go. I'd look for a 1.5GhZ iMac with some slightly modified specs.

[Wonder Boy]

my sig says it all.

[gskiser]

Exactly. I think we will see G5 iMacs or at least an announcement. The iMacs weren't updated. Something gives.

In fact, the article is written in a jovial, jokey and coloquial sort of way - completely out of sync with the normal professional and serious manner of writing that Think Secret is legendary for. Seems like they were drunk when they wrote it. :D

I have to agree with Johnnyjibbs on this one for several reasons. I've been following Thinksecret for 3 years and they are almost always 100% on target. However, the manner and tone of which this article is written so unlike anything I have ever seen on ThinkSecret. It sounds like it was written by a satirist; not by a serious professional for which ThinkSecret is known. It just sounded like it didn't belong on ThinkSecret, which questions its credibility.

That said, I experienced something really strange. I went to the AppleStore two days ago and put an iMac in my shopping cart. It said the shipping time was 10-15 business days! Never is there a wait like that for an old old product. They typically do that when they're releasing a new model within 2 weeks, so they can give the buyers the option to upgrade. When I did the same today, it said that it ships the same business day! Thats not a good sign, and ThinkSecret may be half right. Its almost like they were planning on releasing something, but ran into last minute problems.

There is no doubt the iMac is way behind every other mac model in terms of technology for the price. They're going to do something, and soon. Maybe not at WWDC, but within the next 2-3 weeks. They gave it a bigger monitor in October, but the inside has been the same for almost a year. The eMac is far superior to it now, while also several hundred $$$ cheaper! Apple's going to do something. Apple loves to milk old technology, and if they hadn't released the eMac, they probably would milk the current iMac for another few months. However, with the eMac's updates, the iMac in its current form/specs is pointless. Apple's working on an iMac G5, but they may have run into trouble. If that's the case, I expect we'll see an upgraded G4 version in the meantime...kind of like what they did with the powerbooks. Milk that G4...

I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with Apple, especially considering this is their anniversary year. Pathetic speed bumps of the old G4 processor in the eMac, iBook, & Powerbook. Then a disappointing speed bump for one Powermac model, the the other two models are still the same speed available a year ago. The Powermac is a great machine, but the progress is disappointing. Even Apple knows this, which is why the released the 2.5 in early June with no fanfare. In fact each portable upgrade was disappointing. What monumental feat did apple accomplis this year? They finally got all of their models over 1Gz, yippee. Apple's embarrased. Can you picture Stevo, the showman that he is, getting up in front of a croud and giving us...minor G4 powerbook speed increases or only one new speed Powermac model? Nothing groundbreaking or a new form factor from Apple in a long time. Unfortunately the lack of a G5 iMac would at least be consistent with their progress so far this year.

[bdkennedy1]

[url="http://thinksecret.com/news/wwdc04apple.html"]

However, ThinkSecret essentially eliminates an iMac update as a possibility, discounting analyst and rumor predictions of an imminent iMac update.

Then how does ThinkSecret explain the low inventory on iMacs?

[Koodauw]

I love how everyone gets in a tizy when Apple "denies" or "Speculates" about new products. Seriously you would think we would have better things to do than b*tch and moan that the iMac hasn't been updated or whatnot. But for some reason, no new iMac would really piss me off. The last time I got mad like this was before the emac updates. I really do like the current iMac design, and would love to pick one up at a bargin basement price once a new G5 comes out, unless the new G5 is way Cool. (Pizzabox style just doen't do it for me.) Anyways, I hope for new iMacs, but lets remember, in the the big scheme of things, iMac updates at WWDC, are not life and death.

[bertagert]

You forget about the Steve Jobs reality distortion filed. If anyone can make a LCD display seem revolutionary, its Steve Jobs.
Why does everyone think Steve jobs does all the design work around Apple? He does nothing of the sort. He runs the business and thats about it. Just wondering.

[BeigeUser]

Why does everyone think Steve jobs does all the design work around Apple? He does nothing of the sort. He runs the business and thats about it. Just wondering.

He may not design it himself but he will keep rejecting designs until the designers make something that Steve likes. Just like he did for the LCD iMacs.

[aussiemac86]

I have just ordered a dual 2.5 and 17".

Just wondering, if apple does go away from ADC.....no one is going to bother making adc video cards anymore are they........so i would be stuck with whatever videocards are available now, and would not be able to upgrade without getting a new display.....hmmmm

[CubaTBird]

That is just how think secret feels about the advent of imac g5's. Sheesh, one little sentence and you guys go off blowing ur keypads up with complaints. :o

[gskiser]

Why does everyone think Steve jobs does all the design work around Apple? He does nothing of the sort. He runs the business and thats about it. Just wondering.

Steve may not be the engineer, but he directs the direction of which the designers go. Remember the "sunflower" story of the iMac? Read any biography of Steve and you'll see the design is everything to him. Read about his NeXt days after he was booted from apple. His NeXt logo went through countless designs and steve was a tyrant. Same with the NeXt hardware design. He made the final decision on the color of the paint inside the hardware. He takes it personally and wants and has his hand in it. Not that its a bad thing, I love a beautifully designed computer. My point is just that Steve doesn't just run the business side, he has a lot more say in the desing direction than you may think. Heck, his name is actually even on many of the patents with Ives if you look at them.

[Travis Novak]

I have just ordered a dual 2.5 and 17".

Just wondering, if apple does go away from ADC.....no one is going to bother making adc video cards anymore are they........so i would be stuck with whatever videocards are available now, and would not be able to upgrade without getting a new display.....hmmmm

Dvi-adc adapter anyone? There is absouloutly nothing wrong with apple's switch to dvi. Adc was a stupid idea.

As far as the imacs go, history tells us that pbs have always had a better clock than imacs. A g5 pb isn't happening soon so the imac will go to 1.5 ghz then the pbs go to g5s and then we finally see g5 imacs. :D

[brap]

...if Tiger goes belly-up on stage.
Haha... now that's an enduring image! :p

[mac128k]

France. Not Hilton. G5 iMac's announced in gay Pa-REE!!! here's how it'll go down...

Stevie is introduced as "STEPHAN" as he takes the stage in Paris Aug 31st. Clad in trademark black shirt (but with thick ribbed turtleneck that the Parisians go ga-ga over) and Jeans. A look that Derrick Zoolander would call "Derelicte".

Lights dim...

He launches into 20 minutes of boring rehash of progress we all already know the company has made (OS X adoption, iPod's installed base and last quarter's sales, yada, yada, yada)...

Get's heckled in French ("TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH") when he comments on recent PowerMac upgrades...plus heckling in English by a few "Freedom Fry" loving "stinking Amehri-cahns" i.e. "Yanks".

And then he pops the question...

"What do Quentin Taratino, France, and McDonald's have in common?"
"Answer: Le Royale with Cheese"

"Now after today, what does APPLE, France, and the rest of the world have in common?"
"No it's not the iTumes Music Store. It's...

LeMac Royale. But there's no cheese here!" (cue sly Jobsian grin)

(Cue the music "Stuck in the middle with you". Out pops a LeMac Royale (redesigned G5 iMac replacement) from a rising pedestal in the floor as Ive and the design team come on stage and dance to the music (all of them still having both ears however)).

Ive presents the new LeMac Royale design, explaining that the previous iMac Sunflower design, while good looking, was "gimpy" due to the now woefully underpowered G4 and the lack of expansion. And he explained how he motivated his design team, suggesting that if they didn't come up with something "insanely great" that he'd "get medieval on their a%%es."

After some Ivesian spieling, Jobs takes over again, thanking Ives for his "bloody good" work while secretly fantasizing again about Sheryl Crow. (didn't anybody think there was something going on there?)

Jobs goes on to introduce some new, cool, yet underwhleming peripheral products all priced from $79-99. And he introduces Michael Moore as the next board member of Apple Computer, replacing Al Gore -- whose 15 minutes have already expired. (Justification: all of Farenheit 9/11 was produced on Mac hardware and software. Go FCP!!!)

And then as Jobs heads out and the lights dim, a larger than life face-shot of Samuel L Jackson fills the screen behind him. Jobs strikes his "Magnum" pose and begins to quote Ezekiel 25:17 ..."The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (cough--Bill Gates--cough) Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. (Meeeee!) For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."

...and for those who stay for the credits, a special clip of "The Invicibles" plays for those still in their seat/logged on - featuring Bill Gates as the evil villain, taking a licking from...you guessed it...Samuel L Jackson's "Frozone".

And GOODNIGHT from Paris! :D

[hsvguy]

This is madness. Sure it is a 'developers' conference but that doesn't usually stop Steve from showing off new products becuase he nows a large portion of the Apple community will be watching. As for new iMac's, who knows?

No one does. Some people just think they do.

We all should have learn't by now that Apple is one of the best when it comes to secret keeping, especially new products or major revisions. If we get more then the promised preview of Tiger (which we most likely will) then i'll be happy. Don't forget what Steve said in his Macworld '04 keynote, something along the lines of "we have some big products coming your way this year to celebrate the Mac birthday".

I'm just waiting out till monday, Apple knows its holding the cards here and is playing them close. Whatever happens, it'll be interesting.

[3.1416]

Dvi-adc adapter anyone? There is absouloutly nothing wrong with apple's switch to dvi. Adc was a stupid idea.

Agreed. Well, not necessarily "stupid", but the marginal improvement in usability just isn't worth the incompatibility with the rest of the world.

As far as the imacs go, history tells us that pbs have always had a better clock than imacs.

Because they could. If Apple can make a G5 iMac today, there's just no way they'd sit on it for 6 months (remember, they've said no G5 PBs before the end of the year) in order to satisfy some self-imposed rule that the Powerbooks have to be faster.

[aswitcher]

What is it about this word that's so damn hard to spell?
Are you all doing this just to annoy me?
(Sorry but I always get pre-potential product announcement "loose" intolerance syndrome) Must be all the excitement.
By the way, it's L O S E!
Rant over :)


Geeze (slang) youse (slang) gotta (slang) "get a life" (cliche) :D

Fast typing between important paid work at the office means I don't spend much time checking my spelling and grammar...

Know this, words are symbols for ideas and concepts. If the meaning is gained then they have served their purpose. This is meant to be a fun place to post, not somewhere I need to stress about my use of langauge... ;)

[iDave]

What is it about this word that's so damn hard to spell?
Are you all doing this just to annoy me?
(Sorry but I always get pre-potential product announcement "loose" intolerance syndrome) Must be all the excitement.
By the way, it's L O S E!
Rant over :)
I've always had a problem with loose, lose, choose and chose. Is there a rule I could memorize? Like two "S"s in dessert because you want two?
:D ;) :D ;)

[DrGruv1]

1) Dual 3.0ghz with the new 980 chip
2) Included bluetooth and extreme plus bluetooth keyboard and mouse
3) New 20" Display with xxx brightness and 600:1 Contrast

THIS IS THE SYSTEM! :D

I thought it would be NOW... probably Sept. (or later if IBM can't make the chips)

Here is an article about the Power 5 Benchmarks:

http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/networking/news/article.php/3365471

-mike

[Capt Underpants]

In all honesty, I don't know who to believe. I know that iMac updates will happen. Maybe not at WWDC, but soon after. I hope that Apple introduces a new single processor G5 headless to go along with the new aluminum displays. Of course, i want a new display to go with my Powerbook.

Tiger is sure to be awesome. As many have said before, the broadcast probably isn't live because of stability issues. That's a good thing for Apple. They don't want to be under pressure, praying that nothing crashes at the conference during the keynote.

By the way, bob_the_gorilla, your keys are on the table in your dining room ;). To all of those people that have corrected other on their spelling I have just one more thing to say:

GeT A LiFeZoRrZz. ChillZorZ OutZoRzzzz. DoN't LOOSE yOuR CEWL....

[Travis Novak]

Because they could. If Apple can make a G5 iMac today, there's just no way they'd sit on it for 6 months (remember, they've said no G5 PBs before the end of the year) in order to satisfy some self-imposed rule that the Powerbooks have to be faster.[/QUOTE]

But it makes sense to first update the pro computers, pms and pbs, then the consumer computers, imacs and ibooks. Besides this pizza box thing dosen't sound like it's going to be any easier to fit a g5 into. :(

[Doctor Q]

Why does everyone think Steve jobs does all the design work around Apple? He does nothing of the sort. He runs the business and thats about it. Just wondering.He doesn't design. He tells the designers what he wants and accepts their work only when he likes it. So the design reflects his vision. He's certainly a "hands-on" guy. After all, his hands are on the keyboards for all these keynote demonstrations.

[zedwards]

Sorry, this is hilarious: iMacs at a developers conference.

[TWinbrook46636]

Sorry, this is hilarious: iMacs at a developers conference.

Yeah, really. Oh wait... The original iMac was introduced at... wait for it... WWDC. :rolleyes:

[snahabed]

For the record, I find ThinkSecret to be the gold standard when it comes to rumor accuracy and getting inside dirt (MacRumors second! :) )

But, to echo what someone else said, the minute I read their no-iMac article, it REALLY struck me how un-ThinkSecret the tone was. Maybe it was a new or guest writer, maybe the writer was stoned, I don't know. But something really doesn't click.

A conspiracy theorist would argue that Steve Jobs wrote the decoy article to play with us, and forced ThinkSecret to go along with it so they didn't take any legal action against them for posting those display renderings (for which they got in trouble with their ISP).

Ultimately, I don't think iMacs are coming because it IS WWDC, not MacExpo, because it is unlikely they got a G5 in the enclosure, and because ThinkSecret has a great track record. But the tone of the article + the strange waiting times for iMacs in the store + reports of no inventory refreshes + AppleInsider's macteasing... means I cannot be 100% sure ThinkSecret is right!

How fun :)

[windowsblowsass]

This is a rumor-monger's dream. AppleInsider and ThinkSecret are diametrically opposed on this one.

We'll soon see which has the street cred.

Edit: mklos is right, they both have a 50/50 chance.
ai is good but ts record is perfect(r close)their like the 1972 dolphins of the mac world, perfect record, but maybe theyll end up in like the dolphins and lose in the playoffs (this is like the playoff with wwdc being the superbowl)

[Trekkie]

I was hoping to see at least minor update that maybe had a top end iMac at a G4 with 1.5GHz and an ATI Radeon 9600 built in. That would have sold me.

YOu nevr know.

[davetrow1997]

What is it about this word that's so damn hard to spell?
Are you all doing this just to annoy me?
(Sorry but I always get pre-potential product announcement "loose" intolerance syndrome) Must be all the excitement.
By the way, it's L O S E!
Rant over :)

You will never win this one. Despite multiple posts from multiple users, people in this (and every other) forum continue to butcher this one as well as homonyms galore.

Try not to loose patients.

But getting back on topic, iMac in its current iteration has become much too stagnant. Upon this fact, we all agree. Why not a liquid cooled G5 iMac, eh? Change the form factor a mote to accomodate this... and let it blaze.. If they already added a counterweight to balance the larger screen, then they could use some of that weight in componentry, eh?

Just a thought...

[TWinbrook46636]

I have to agree with Johnnyjibbs on this one for several reasons. I've been following Thinksecret for 3 years and they are almost always 100% on target. However, the manner and tone of which this article is written so unlike anything I have ever seen on ThinkSecret. It sounds like it was written by a satirist; not by a serious professional for which ThinkSecret is known. It just sounded like it didn't belong on ThinkSecret, which questions its credibility.

"There has been much speculation that at least the high-end models of both product lines might include a SuperDrive with DVD-RW/CD-RW capabilities. Let us put this issue to rest: There will be no Superdrive version(s) announced. Apple is facing no "difficulties" fitting the SuperDrive into a PowerBook enclosure, as many other sites have reported. Sources firmly report Apple never tried to accommodate tray-equipped drives into these laptops and that until a slot-loading SuperDrive is abundantly available, Apple laptops will not have SuperDrives. That is not to say Apple won't update the PowerBook design when SuperDrives are added. As sure as the sun rises everyday, a PowerBook re-design is a certainty next year."

- Think Secret's DePlume on a previous ego trip


---


What happened a few days later? We got a Titanium PowerBook G4 with Superdrive. He is not infallible people. He want us to believe there will not only be no iMac announcement on Monday but no new iMacs at all until September? Yeah right. Apple has stopped shipping them to resellers over two weeks ago. Sure it's possible they will not be announced on Monday but if that is the case then an announcement would happen within a couple weeks so either way, we are getting them very very soon!

[johnpaul191]

Agreed, but it's a big occasion, Mr Jobs is a showman and brand new hardware has developer opportunities. We'll see.

As for the webcast - I'm peeved. I'm as interested in what Tiger has to offer as any anonymous developer dude (or dudette). Shame on you, Apple.

even if it's not webcast, the keynote is not secret... there are plenty of Press there, so wifi laptops will be streaming their updates to IRC and a few Mac sites. I would think the presentation will show up online in a few days (maybe after some editing). I would think Apple will want to show the public some 10.4 features themselves instead of relying on the developers and reporters. In the past not long after WWDC http://www.apple.com/macosx/ added a link to a page with some previews of features in the next OS upgrade.

[windowsblowsass]

Sorry, this is hilarious: iMacs at a developers conference.

developers need computers they cant develop if theirs nothing to develop for.
they may also be interested in an imac g5 because then they can develop consumer products for a g5 they wont do that if there is no consumer g5 computer

[HyperX]

This is my First post and it's a rumor.. gather from various sorces and put together it is pretty strong.. But a rumor is a rumor... so you never know.

1) No new Imacs. Look for New Imacs at the End of a July. NO G5's in Imac. Release will go as follows.

17" and 20" models only. 15" dropped out of line.
G4 1.5 in both models.
1299$ for basic G4 17" Imac
Superdrive 8x avalible (Standard in 20")
Possibly ATI 9200 video across board with 9600 option on 20" (still 64 Meg memory but the graphic card might not even change)
120 gig HD standard.
Firewire 800 single port.
Option for Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse
Possible Airport Extreme Standard (Why.. I dont know)
Gigabit Networking (FINALLY)
NO Headless Imac (sorry) No wall hanging Imac (sorry)

Sad and Pathetic I know.. but this is what will happen. Heat issues or just a shortage of Supply.

2) Tiger Tiger Tiger

Tiger is going to be the focus of WWDC and thats it. Introducing what you can do in a 64-bit world and an improved finder interface. Look for tons of features and new DEV tools to make developers happy.

3) New Screens. For sure (just as think secret has said)

4) Recap on recent updates

Talk about New Powermac G5 2.5 prevelent. Sorry for no 3.0. Will not commit to any new time frame.
Talk of BMW Deal. Ipod everywhere. Hint STRONGLY at other car manufactures joining.

5) Talk of Wireless Networking / Wireless Firewire

A quick touching of a base that apple is commited to eliminating clutter. Push for Bluetooth for low speed devices. Eliminating Clutter.

The Keynotes end and thats about it.

Now you can see why they dont want to stream the Keynotes. Especially since Steve is going to be going "sorry sorry sorry" about the G5 3.0 promise!

[windowsblowsass]

Why does everyone think Steve jobs does all the design work around Apple? He does nothing of the sort. He runs the business and thats about it. Just wondering.
the poster wasnt saying jobs designs them rather that he will present it to seem moe than it is hence the reality desroion field

[TWinbrook46636]

1) No new Imacs. Look for New Imacs at the End of a July. NO G5's in Imac. Release will go as follows.

17" and 20" models only. 15" dropped out of line.
G4 1.5 in both models.
1299$ for basic G4 17" Imac
Superdrive 8x avalible (Standard in 20")
Possibly ATI 9200 video across board with 9600 option on 20" (still 64 Meg memory but the graphic card might not even change)
120 gig HD standard.
Firewire 800 single port.
Option for Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse
Possible Airport Extreme Standard (Why.. I dont know)
Gigabit Networking (FINALLY)
NO Headless Imac (sorry) No wall hanging Imac (sorry)

Sad and Pathetic I know.. but this is what will happen. Heat issues or just a shortage of Supply.


That wouldn't be half bad though a dual 1.5GHz option would be better.




2) Tiger Tiger Tiger

Tiger is going to be the focus of WWDC and thats it. Introducing what you can do in a 64-bit world and an improved finder interface. Look for tons of features and new DEV tools to make developers happy.

3) New Screens. For sure (just as think secret has said)

4) Recap on recent updates

Talk about New Powermac G5 2.5 prevelent. Sorry for no 3.0. Will not commit to any new time frame.
Talk of BMW Deal. Ipod everywhere. Hint STRONGLY at other car manufactures joining.

5) Talk of Wireless Networking / Wireless Firewire

A quick touching of a base that apple is commited to eliminating clutter. Push for Bluetooth for low speed devices. Eliminating Clutter.

The Keynotes end and thats about it.


Probably the most logical keynote prediction I've heard.




Now you can see why they dont want to stream the Keynotes. Especially since Steve is going to be going "sorry sorry sorry" about the G5 3.0 promise!


That will be the day. I doubt he will even mention it. He may speak of Tigers but he is a scaredy cat. That's why they announced them a few weeks in advance of the anniversary.

[iDave]

That wouldn't be half bad though a dual 1.5GHz option would be better.
Don't expect duals in a consumer Mac, especially in the current quiet iMac. I'd go along with HyperX's prediction except that I wonder what the heck is taking so long if that's all Apple's going to do.


That will be the day. I doubt he will even mention it. He may speak of Tigers but he is a scaredy cat. That's why they announced them a few weeks in advance of the anniversary.
Surely there's going to be a bake-off. What's a keynote without a bake-off? :eek:

[bob_the_gorilla]

even if it's not webcast, the keynote is not secret... there are plenty of Press there, so wifi laptops will be streaming their updates to IRC and a few Mac sites. I would think the presentation will show up online in a few days (maybe after some editing). I would think Apple will want to show the public some 10.4 features themselves instead of relying on the developers and reporters. In the past not long after WWDC http://www.apple.com/macosx/ added a link to a page with some previews of features in the next OS upgrade.

Still, it's not the same as watching live... sigh...

iDave, I have to agree about the whole language-going-down-the-pan idea. It worries me how poor the language skills of schoolchildren are today in Britain - I don't know about the rest of the world. I was lucky enough to go to a school full of bright kids, but mixed socially with a lot of people from standard state schools. Frankly, I can barely believe how poor many British-born kids are at English. Spoken English is generally suspect, written English virtually non-existent. I had a better grasp of the language at age 8 than many school leavers will ever have.

Hmm. Sorry, it's not often I get to play the grumpy old man, and I rather enjoy it.

Back on topic - I agree with the poster (sorry, forgotten who) who said that (s)he was expecting iMacs before July was out. Many things point towards it. If we don't see a decent speed bump etc at the very least, the iMac is dead, and not just sleeping. Like that damn parrot. I'm also praying for a new iPod, as otherwise I'll have to wait even longer to spend my cash, but that's looking less likely.

[bryantm3]

Yeah it'll be called an aMac (a for advanced) it'll be right inbetween the power of a emac and a pm. Its price will be dirt cheap and it will blow away the competitors. It will be screen less but for a limited time offer you will be able to get 50% off of a new 30" screen. People will line up for miles to get their amacs. They'll be low on stock just like the iPod Mini also, by the way was denied just like the iMacs are right now............

it makes you think......






i want a aMac :D

yeah, people will love their assmacs :p

[Stewdy]

Just went to the Apple Store and dropped a 15", a 17" and a 20" base imac into my cart with no upgrades at all. Ship times on the 17" and the 20" were Same Business Day. The 15" was 7-10 days. That would seem to me that the 15" is definitely going away and just updates to the other sizes. Of course that doesn't mean that there won't be something new... (but probably not so I won't get my hopes up) :(

[MacinDoc]

Last week, I speculated that there might be new displays at WWDC and G5 iMacs at Expo Paris http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=894133#post894133. It seems to me that these predictions are consistent with the TS article. I think that if Apple wants to encourage sales of its new iMac for the coming school year, it has to introduce them by July, and that could mean an introduction at Expo Paris. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Apple was trying to increase its profile at Expo Paris.

On the other hand, this could all be a smokescreen. After all, wasn't it originally rumored (or rumoured, for those who prefer the British spelling) that MWSF 2004 would not be webcast?

IMO, if there is an announcement that the WWDC will be webcast, then iMac G5 will be there.

With respect to iMac specs, I think that the iMac will continue to be more expensive than the eMac, so it needs hardware specs to justify the price difference. Since the eMac is already at 1.25 GHz, and the G4 can currently do no better than 1.5 GHz, it seems that the only way to differentiate the iMac from the eMac (for most consumers) would be the introduction of the new form-factor G5 iMac.

[nexusfx]

Those iMacs need to be updated, sure you can get a cool looking machine out of them right now but the eMac is such a better deal. They've got to update them if for nothing else just bump up the speeds of the current G4 series and add the 8x Superdrive to them, maybe larger Hard Drives as well.

New Displays I'm very mch looking forward too, those are so overdue for an update it's not even funny, the 20" contrast is better than the 23" at the moment which makes the 20" look alot clearer than the flagship right now despite the HD resolution, that's just not right.

Either way, I'm looking forward to the conference, I've got a good feeling about what will be announced. Just feels like there will be some suprises in store for us this time.

[gwag]

How about this:

There is a new "imac", it can be used headless, with the new displays, but ALSO you can unhook the base from the new 20" or 17" screen and attach it to the top of the "imac" like a current imac. Aluminum of course and I'm thinking square.
:cool:

[xtekdiver]

This means that they must introduce a new keyboard and mouse to go with the new displays. Will they finally break down and give us a 2-button mouse -- wireless?

[sockeatingdryer]

I believe that the iMac won't be, well, an iMac.

It probably won't have a G5 (Did everybody just get selective hearing on Boger's announcement?! He said there won't be a G5 in the iMac for a looooong time!).

They are talking about a pizza-box design, headless Mac, hanging displays, and Airport Express...

I'm thinking the new iMac will be a tablet, with it to "hang" on a docking station. All of the guts will be under the display (and due to heating designs, a G4 will be necessary), or it could be just the display communicating to the station/tower via Airport Express (no one has gotten one, so there may be an extra hidden reason for it). This, of course, could very well pass on to the display line.

So... bottom line, I'm guessing that it is a tablet (the display, pizza-box design) with a docking station (headless Mac).

[virus1]

LMAO! :) apl better bring somthink really good out to make up for this... where's my ciggette... :mad:

[Soire]

anything more than 10.4 chatter is bonus. last year they HAD to release the G5s since there is a lot of 10.3 that would have tipped everyone off. remember developers walk out with a beta copy.

Anybody know if student developers who stay at home get a beta version of tiger mailed to them??

[bob_the_gorilla]

Anybody know if student developers who stay at home get a beta version of tiger mailed to them??

Doubt it. There'll be disc images on the file sharing networks within days, though.

[TWinbrook46636]

It probably won't have a G5 (Did everybody just get selective hearing on Boger's announcement?! He said there won't be a G5 in the iMac for a looooong time!).

"While Boger didn't give a timeframe for an iMac G5, he did say the company faced similar challenges getting a G5 to work with their consumer desktop...

[ITMediaCo]

Any thoughts whether the new displays will be shipping right after they are announced? Or will we need to wait until August...

I'm just a little excited here... :)

[Downdivx]

This means that they must introduce a new keyboard and mouse to go with the new displays. Will they finally break down and give us a 2-button mouse -- wireless?

Agreed on the new keyboard and mouse, if the displays and the G5s are metal the keyboard and mouse has to follow soon. I'm not putting any money on 2-button mice though. Wireless probably remains an option.

W

[dantec]

I went to my local Apple Store today, and guess what no iMacs in the 'consumer' iMac/iBook section, except for 1 20" model. I asked the sales person, they said they sold the two models because they have run out of stock...

The eMac was still there with the iBook & G5's etc... I spotted 2 other iMacs in the stores in the other sections...

It was actually pretty strange looking because there was a huge gap on the table where they are supposed to be with cables running to & from...

So if you ask me, iMac updates are imminant, the lack of supply and time since the last update draws me to the conclusion that we will get new iMacs (either G5 iMacs or speedbumped G4's) at WWDC or a later date.

Just my 2 cents :)

[HyperX]

Pizza Box type G5 Imacs I think will happen... But not till next year...

Expect G5 powerbooks at the begining of the year (First Major Apple event)
Then a few months later (2 or 3) Expect Imac with G5 (Possible Pizza Box). With the Ibook and Emac happening with a few weeks of eachother over the summer. This time next year at WWDC expect the Key thing to talk about is Apples total commitment to 64-bit platform! This time table seems to be the logical advancement (due to apples history).

Keep in mind that there is no REASON for apple to move forward on 64-bit in the consumer line since most software doesn't even take ADVANTAGE of it yet.

I further expect to see The G6 within 2 years or less with a Multi-core design (4 processor powermacs on 2 chips.. No virtual threading needed). This will solve heat issues (following in intels footsteps) and allow an increase in overall speed.

I think this is one of the reasons Apple has moved to an All Dual G5 design on the powermacs. They want to push 64-bit proccessing and have software designed for Multi-processing (and I mean REALLY designed around it). Around the Same time you will Probably see OS 11 (Codename: whatever).

People keep talking about G5 in this.. and how steve jobs will suprise the world. We keep forgetting about the REAL limitations that exist in current technologies. With every bump in MHZ we cause more heat and power issues. Smaller fabrication on solves it a little bit while creating it's own issues. Chip designers are needing to Re-invent the wheel so to speak. So please stop getting your hopes up. Have some patients and dont be afraid to buy whats on the market (if your worried about price buy a re-furb and be happy you saved some cash).

In fact I would go as far to say, that apple knew they couldn't roll out G5's like they wanted to. They pushed for it into the powermacs to push developers to write software. This way they knew they had a year or 2 to release there products and the software would be waiting! Why pull an AMD (wow Athlon FX with no 64-bit software. Love that 32-bit mode)

ALSO PLEASE STOP BEGGING FOR DUAL BUTTON MOUSE FROM APPLE OR EVEN A SCROLL WHEEL. It wont even HAPPEN even in a dream untill the next MAJOR revision. So when the G6 is rumored.. then begin rumoring your mouse again! If anything I think Steve will push for the death of wires first (no more pro wired.. only bluetooth!) before he worries about a second button or scroll wheel. Use logic!

As for people wondering about what release when in terms of product perdiction and rumors.. here are some simply Guidlines to follow.

1) Over X-mas think Ipods! Thats the money for Apple. Let's not pretend here. So before X-mas approaches lets not begin rumoring radical product changes. We usually see product line changes in the late spring and summer time. This is when apple makes most of it's computer sales <ok well they sell alot during Xmas too.. but it knows it can sell 6 month old technology at X-mas just as well as new products. There Honey spot is education.. and that sings of summer>

2) Apple doesn't love to rock the boat. Anytime they have tried they have had problems. Apple is more about inovating and taking calcualted risks. In everything from there design to there products (Ipods and Itunes was an eventual step in musical evolution. It didn't IMO rock the BOAT... simply put a little motion in the ocean). Apple will also never Innovate unless they have there backs to the wall. Stocks failing, no profits.. they will innovate.. Until then, they are happy at staus quo.

3) Apple moves at the speed of MONEY! If there is money to be made they will make it. But they move as fast as the money. If something is profitable they wont chage it... why change something that works. Everything From the G5 to the Ipod mini is a way to improve profits in a place where it needed it and not until it was NEEDED! Apple has survived all these years by moving at the RIGHT times instead of as soon as it can!

4) Apple does not MAKE technology. Instead they buy from others. If you want to rumor correctly look at what other companies do.. When someone else makes a new technology expect apple to adopt it. Thats when you can rumor. Talking about G5's in everything when you know IBM cannot supply basically is like peeing in the wind. Use your head. If the technology is not there, apple wont due it. Apple is literally a design and marketing firm.


Boy I sure love to hear myself talk :P I will shut up now.. sorry about the rant!

In closing.. this year..

NO G5's in anything more then powermacs.
NO Headless Imacs.
IPOD UPDATE before Xmas <probably bigger hard drives. Maybe QT support if they go color screens>
TIGER will be apple forcus the rest of the year <apple has always been about software and not hardware>
Do not be supprised if you see other software updates move to 64-bit. But I think this will be more of an After Xmas thing. With ILife '05 and Some major updates to Final Cut Pro.

[theROZ]

i think a 30inch HD monitor that you hang on the wall with wifi internet, bluetooth keyboard, wifi ipod connected, bose stereo speakers Imac would be cool.

[DMann]

considering all the special engineering that went into getting the G5 into the original PM, not to mention the rev b 2.5 it should not come as a suprise.

Rev 2.5??

[DMann]

[QUOTE=dantec]I went to my local Apple Store today, and guess what no iMacs in the 'consumer' iMac/iBook section, except for 1 20" model. I asked the sales person, they said they sold the two models because they have run out of stock...

If it is true that they are being produced in Taiwan as
we speak, then what would stop Steve from, at the very
least, announcing them at WWDC? :confused:

[HyperX]

Rev 2.5??

I think they mean the Dual G5 2.5 water cooled Rev B Powermac.

I wonder if I can save money by running water thru it to a boiling temp then making my pasta with the water ;)

[DMann]

I believe that the iMac won't be, well, an iMac.

It probably won't have a G5 (Did everybody just get selective hearing on Boger's announcement?! He said there won't be a G5 in the iMac for a looooong time!).

They are talking about a pizza-box design, headless Mac, hanging displays, and Airport Express...

I'm thinking the new iMac will be a tablet, with it to "hang" on a docking station. All of the guts will be under the display (and due to heating designs, a G4 will be necessary), or it could be just the display communicating to the station/tower via Airport Express (no one has gotten one, so there may be an extra hidden reason for it). This, of course, could very well pass on to the display line.

So... bottom line, I'm guessing that it is a tablet (the display, pizza-box design) with a docking station (headless Mac).

Hmmmmmmm.......... with airport extreme included?

[DMann]

New Displays I'm very mch looking forward too, those are so overdue for an update it's not even funny, the 20" contrast is better than the 23" at the moment which makes the 20" look alot clearer than the flagship right now despite the HD resolution, that's just not right.

Is that true, the 20" has a better contrast than the 23"?
Wow, I'll have to compare them. By what comparison
did you notice this?

[DMann]

France. Not Hilton. G5 iMac's announced in gay Pa-REE!!! here's how it'll go down...

Stevie is introduced as "STEPHAN" as he takes the stage in Paris Aug 31st. Clad in trademark black shirt (but with thick ribbed turtleneck that the Parisians go ga-ga over) and Jeans. A look that Derrick Zoolander would call "Derelicte".

Lights dim...

He launches into 20 minutes of boring rehash of progress we all already know the company has made (OS X adoption, iPod's installed base and last quarter's sales, yada, yada, yada)...

Get's heckled in French ("TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH") when he comments on recent PowerMac upgrades...plus heckling in English by a few "Freedom Fry" loving "stinking Amehri-cahns" i.e. "Yanks".

And then he pops the question...

"What do Quentin Taratino, France, and McDonald's have in common?"
"Answer: Le Royale with Cheese"

"Now after today, what does APPLE, France, and the rest of the world have in common?"
"No it's not the iTumes Music Store. It's...

LeMac Royale. But there's no cheese here!" (cue sly Jobsian grin)

(Cue the music "Stuck in the middle with you". Out pops a LeMac Royale (redesigned G5 iMac replacement) from a rising pedestal in the floor as Ive and the design team come on stage and dance to the music (all of them still having both ears however)).

Ive presents the new LeMac Royale design, explaining that the previous iMac Sunflower design, while good looking, was "gimpy" due to the now woefully underpowered G4 and the lack of expansion. And he explained how he motivated his design team, suggesting that if they didn't come up with something "insanely great" that he'd "get medieval on their a%%es."

After some Ivesian spieling, Jobs takes over again, thanking Ives for his "bloody good" work while secretly fantasizing again about Sheryl Crow. (didn't anybody think there was something going on there?)

Jobs goes on to introduce some new, cool, yet underwhleming peripheral products all priced from $79-99. And he introduces Michael Moore as the next board member of Apple Computer, replacing Al Gore -- whose 15 minutes have already expired. (Justification: all of Farenheit 9/11 was produced on Mac hardware and software. Go FCP!!!)

And then as Jobs heads out and the lights dim, a larger than life face-shot of Samuel L Jackson fills the screen behind him. Jobs strikes his "Magnum" pose and begins to quote Ezekiel 25:17 ..."The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (cough--Bill Gates--cough) Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. (Meeeee!) For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."

...and for those who stay for the credits, a special clip of "The Invicibles" plays for those still in their seat/logged on - featuring Bill Gates as the evil villain, taking a licking from...you guessed it...Samuel L Jackson's "Frozone".

And GOODNIGHT from Paris! :D

Bravo!!!!!

[DMann]

For the record, I find ThinkSecret to be the gold standard when it comes to rumor accuracy and getting inside dirt (MacRumors second! :) )

But, to echo what someone else said, the minute I read their no-iMac article, it REALLY struck me how un-ThinkSecret the tone was. Maybe it was a new or guest writer, maybe the writer was stoned, I don't know. But something really doesn't click.

A conspiracy theorist would argue that Steve Jobs wrote the decoy article to play with us, and forced ThinkSecret to go along with it so they didn't take any legal action against them for posting those display renderings (for which they got in trouble with their ISP).

Ultimately, I don't think iMacs are coming because it IS WWDC, not MacExpo, because it is unlikely they got a G5 in the enclosure, and because ThinkSecret has a great track record. But the tone of the article + the strange waiting times for iMacs in the store + reports of no inventory refreshes + AppleInsider's macteasing... means I cannot be 100% sure ThinkSecret is right!

How fun :)

iMacs running at single processor 1.4 Ghz G5 970 FX ought to be
cool enough to be enclosed in a small case. 3 1/2 days and counting....

[savar]

Oh I also want to remind people that this is WWDC, not a MacExpo.

Just because Steve Jobs HAS in the past used WWDC as a platform for introducing new products, we should view that as the exception and not the rule.

But WWDC has replaced the summer expo, Steve is a showman, and Apple always has neat stuff coming out of their labs. I know I will be pleasantly surprised with whatever happens Monday.

The flipside is that macheads used to wait for every MacExpo keynote in July to buy new macs, knowing that if they bought in May or June they would get shafted by a new model certainly coming out just a few weeks later.

As a result, Apple has made product announcements less predictable. All the same, they still like hype...

We should expect nothing outside of a Tiger preview. If he introduces something else, nice bonus. I don't want to hear any whiney brats pissing on about "No PowerBook G5! No iMac G5! No Video iPod! And what about the PDA and tablet?!?!!?"

True. People that act this way seriously need to unplug for a few days and get some sunshine.

All that said, I honestly have NO idea what Tiger is going to be like. Besides making it faster, I cannot think of anything I would like that Panther does not have. And frankly, Panther is already fast enough on my under-1GHZ G4.

Apple will have some really cool stuff. I'm sure nobody ever thought, man I'd like to have Expose on MacOSX...but Apple gave it to us.

Multi-threaded network operations for Finder with more visual feedback, polished UI, new UI features ("piles", eg.), more 3-d effects, etc.

[BWhaler]

Normally I wouldn't care about an iMac release, but given the pathetic rev.B PowerMac update with a bunch of dead end technology, I am now bummed-out.

If there is no new iMac, I hope we see a G5 cube or something of that ilk because I don't want to spend 5 grand on what Apple is currently offering for the PM line.

Also, I hope to God Apple is smart enough and release matching wireless keyboards and mice with the new displays. It would be even worse than the current mismatching to have white kb/mouse and metal everything else.

I am very disappointed right now, but I suspect we are all going to be blown away. It's been a quiet year, and Apple really need the developer community and wants to build up WWDC attendance, so I suspect they have a ton of great things in store for us.

[isgoed]

I was completely amazed by the number of people who believed that the iMac would go G5 at WWDC. I assume that any G5 iMac will get the PPC970FX, but when looking at the PowerMac line-up, IBM clearly has problems with volume production (only 1 above 2Ghz). So any iMac G5 will be announced after the dual 2.5Ghz ships. Furthermore WWDC is not "the best" occasion to announce the iMac. I totally agree with Think Secret that apple is laughing their *** off.

And don't get me wrong: I have been waiting since the release of the G5 for an iMac G5. I thought in dec 2003 that it would be likely to get iMacs G5 in Feb 2004 (just after a speculated G5 revision). When I look at the current facts I say August 2004 as best.

[savar]

He may not design it himself but he will keep rejecting designs until the designers make something that Steve likes. Just like he did for the LCD iMacs.

The legend goes that when Steve Jobs first saw the Segway he immediately criticized its aesthetics. Don't forget that the Segway had been billed as a revolutionary invention. That didn't faze Jobs. He laid into it. Nitpicked a hundred things about it.

He's a micromanager and perfectionist. Oh yeah--he's pretty damn smart too. That's a good combo for Apple right now.

[oldpismo]

If it is true that they are being produced in Taiwan as
we speak, then what would stop Steve from, at the very
least, announcing them at WWDC? :confused:

My thoughts exactly. If as TS says they are in production, or starting production, then they will have some working models that they could show off, for us all to go wow at. We know that they don't mind announcing products a few months before they become available.

[ApReSe]

Why call a "G5 iMac" an iMac ? time for a new name.

[Eprom]

Why call a "G5 iMac" an iMac ? time for a new name.

Food for thought....

But then again the Powermac is still called "Powermac"

[Palador]

All I have to say are two things:

1. This feels like the old Motorola days. Granted a 25% speed improvement is good for the G5, but since DDR2 and PCI Express are already shipping for PCs..... I dont think most people will wait another year for todays technology. The G4 is beyond stagnant right now.

2. If you dont want a PowerMac, the iBook is the real sweet spot in terms of price/performance/value/everything. I'd even go with it an a seperate external LCD instead of the insanely priced iMacs. Plus you get to take it everywhere when you need to!

[aswitcher]

I really hope there are a bunch of other new bits of hardware released soon. Bluetooth ProMouse and ProKeyboard in a metal powerbook look are high on my wish list.

[ITR 81]

I just ordered a basic 15inch iMac 1Ghz about 7 days ago.(for my biz)
The only thing added was ram and airport extreme.

Tonight I receive a email from Apple saying my order is ready to ship and is now a 17inch iMac and is 1.25Ghz and with Superdrive..but at the same price.

Is the 15inch being phased out or is a new G4 update afoot?

If the 15inch goes bye bye this leaves only the 17 and 20 iMacs.

So does this mean the iMac is about to go to 1.5Ghz G4???

[aswitcher]

I just ordered a basic 15inch iMac 1Ghz about 7 days ago.(for my biz)
The only thing added was ram and airport extreme.

Tonight I receive a email from Apple saying my order is ready to ship and is now a 17inch iMac and is 1.25Ghz and with Superdrive..but at the same price.

Is the 15inch being phased out or is a new G4 update afoot?

If the 15inch goes bye bye this leaves only the 17 and 20 iMacs.

So does this mean the iMac is about to go to 1.5Ghz G4???


Score

Cool 15" is dead.

Is superdrive is base standard now?

Mmm. Looking good for change in imac line...

[Windowlicker]

I think Apple is trying to create a little FUD here. When looked at in the context of Apple's line-up, the iMac is seriously lacking. At the very least they need to bump the line to 1.5GHz G4s, 8x SuperDrives, better video, etc. However, I am still betting on sub-2.0GHz G5s.

I don't think there's much use for a 8x SD on imacs.. the drive is too fast for the machine :Q just think of it -- it burns over 10mb's in second (or am i wrong?)!

Still you're right about the speed bump and maybe better video too. We'll see it all soon enough. I just hope apple posts a recording on their site afterwards so that I can watch it at work.

[ITR 81]

Score

Cool 15" is dead.

Is superdrive is base standard now?

Mmm. Looking good for change in imac line...

I would say yes, because my basic iMac they upgraded only came with a combo/drive to begin with and now it has a Superdrive.

[BakedBeans]

well there better be a updated imac.... are a new product to replace it,
i think they need to keep it as an all in one and bring out a consumer tower.. single 1.6, 1.8 and 2ghz, and an imac with the same

[Raveny]

perhaps no new imac, but who said that there can't be a a...z-mac? a whole new line?

[rdowns]

I guess I hope Apple just introduces something I can afford. ;)

Squire

I can afford anything they have. I hope they announce something I WANT!

[rdowns]

One more thing...

New iMac:

17-inch widescreen LCD
1.33 Ghz PowerPC G4 (New!)
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
128MB DDR video memory (New!)
56k internal modem
512MB DDR333 SDRAM (New!)
120 GB Ultra ATA hard drive (New!)
8x Superdrive (New!)
AirPort Extreme Ready
Long-in-the-Bluetooth Option

$1,599.00 (At a new reduced price!)

I'd snap that up in a NY minute if it were 9-12 months ago.

[MacRy]

I really hope that they do bring out a significant revision to the iMac because I want a new one and would have to sell a number of spare internal organs to buy a G5 PM and display. We still need something sexy looking but powerful enough for us mid range consumers to purchase.

[MacQuest]

Where do people get the impression that Apple is out of stock on the iMacs??? I just tried buying the 17". Estimated shipping: 'Same bus. day.' That doesn't sound like out of stock to me.

Out of stock does NOT mean completely out of stock. You have to take the reseller's into account.

There are no iMac's or eMac's available at the CompUSA near me, and there are none on order.

[Frixo Cool]

OK, just a short observation...

We all know about two new machine codes in 10.3.4 - the first was 7,3 (Dual G5/2.5) and the other is 8,1. So if there are no new iMacs at WWDC what is this code for? Just a new G4 iMac "silent" update in a few weeks or something completly new?

[rdowns]

Because they could. If Apple can make a G5 iMac today, there's just no way they'd sit on it for 6 months (remember, they've said no G5 PBs before the end of the year) in order to satisfy some self-imposed rule that the Powerbooks have to be faster.

But it makes sense to first update the pro computers, pms and pbs, then the consumer computers, imacs and ibooks. Besides this pizza box thing dosen't sound like it's going to be any easier to fit a g5 into. :([/QUOTE]

What makes sense is to sell the best available product you can without regard to your other market segments. I think this notion of pro and consumer models is stupid.

Apple seems to think a "consumer" computer with the latest chip will eat into PM sales. Sure, a few would buy the "consumer" over the "pro" but the computers are very, very different. Would those who need and buy PMs give up dual processors, larger HDs, drive bays, more RAM, slots, better and upgradable video, faster networking and monitor choice and upgradability for a single G5 computer that you can add more RAM to?

[appleguy]

Tell me isn't WWDC more for Pro Users?
so why will they announce something for the Joe Smoo??
Unless its the iServe (small G5 Server... Perfect for the Home/Small office).
Just kidding about the iServe... although might be good.
My bet is that they will announce something Cool and we will be over the moon. and we will be druelling over Tiger....
Plus something we will be p***d about (like some minor update that should of been more)..

So I doubt they will announce that the Mac OS X team are going to take over Microsoft Windows team and write a stable operating system for the idot wintel users...

****EDIT
Maybe a big announcement will be that tiger will be Xplatform..... ..... Nahhhhhh, poor Bill will get upset ******

[Mord]

i'll never buy an imac ever but i think it will be a normal update on a tuesday morning updating to 1.5GHz g4's and maby a nice 9600 and 9800 gpu's not and 5200 ultra crap

[Zaty]

17" and 20" models only. 15" dropped out of line.
G4 1.5 in both models.
1299$ for basic G4 17" Imac
Superdrive 8x avalible (Standard in 20")
Possibly ATI 9200 video across board with 9600 option on 20" (still 64 Meg memory but the graphic card might not even change)
120 gig HD standard.
Firewire 800 single port.
Option for Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse
Possible Airport Extreme Standard (Why.. I dont know)
Gigabit Networking (FINALLY)
NO Headless Imac (sorry) No wall hanging Imac (sorry)



Well if they're going to release new iMacs with those specs (or similiar), what has taken them so long for that update? Does Moto/Freescale have problems producing enough 1.5 cpus? Or do they introduce a new form factor?

[JFreak]

i'll never buy an imac ever

why?

i have a second hand G3 imac (400mhz, manufactured in 1999) and it's just a wonderful machine. almost like a laptop - no fans and hard to upgrade hard drives (only thing that makes noise in the system). i love it! with a 80GB hard drive and 512MB memory the thing performs normal things wonderfully, up to quick-and-dirty imovie dv edits.

i will buy a G4 imac when they lose enough value. the design is just so amazingly beautiful. i hope to be able to get a good deal on a 17" or a 20" widescreen model some day.

and i will most likely buy a G5 imac, too, when they become available second hand.

there just are no comparison to the imacs. no other desktop will ever deserve a place on one's living room. the imacs are something one doesn't want to hide behind one's desk - but instead place them where they are seen! that tells enough.

the necessary car analogy: if one wants to have most raw power, one buys a V8 speedster that is ugly as hell but almost too powerful a beast to handle. but if one wants to have most beautiful piece to show to whoever might see it, one doesn't care about the raw power or the year it is manufactured. one only cares about the envy looks of others when one drives it and wants to be seen in it - 1965 mustang, anyone?

[HyperX]

Well if they're going to release new iMacs with those specs (or similiar), what has taken them so long for that update? Does Moto/Freescale have problems producing enough 1.5 cpus? Or do they introduce a new form factor?

Fair Enough Question. Lets Break it down in a 1 year timeline for everyone

1 year ago. Steve Introduces G5 powermacs. Jaws hit the floor and everyone is wowed. Futher wows everyone annoncing 3ghz in 1 year. All this is based of what IBM promises it can do. 970fx will Hit 3ghz no problem Steve. We promise it will be ready.

A few months later it is realized the 90nm pre-fab has a bit of a heat issue. X-serves are becoming an issue. IBM cannot get the speed up. Steve is crapping himself. We need chips to start designing.. what the hold up. IBM responds with give us a bit more time, BTW we are having a few yield issues to but it will all work out.

Steve Keeps pushing back, the board is screaming for steve To Refresh, but he keeps telling himself it isn't the good old Motorola days all over again. Steve is on the phone daily with IBM.

A few more months IBM annonces the yeild problems solved. They ship some sample 2.5 chips to Apple. Apple techs roast marshmellows over new chips and Steve finally breaks in for the watercooling IDEA. He knows if he shows up with nothing soon, he will have alot more the awnser for.

Apple takes a stance now that G5's will be in everything else next year, not trusting IBM and what they will say (it could be sooner but I think IBM has thier head up thier.. you know. Steve tells the techs Start updating everything. No more waiting on monitors or consumer line. Motorola is screaming AHHHH pains because they now need to produce alot more G4's then they originally intended!

What about the Emac you ask? It was never destined for G5's this year because it would be shooting themselves in the foot. You want to sell high first and then lower as sales drop off. Powermacs, then Imacs. Powerbooks, then Ibooks. Then Emacs Last. The natural order of things my friend! I would be suprised if we saw G5's in Ibooks before Xmas NEXT year! Never mind heat, they want those fat powerbook dollars. Especially since Ibooks need to compete with ever more in-expensive consumer notebooks on the PC range.

Look for G4 speed bumps till next year. The delays have nothing to do with yields, just apple Trusting IBM and putting to much on there developing plate. They know they need to come out big, so expect a HUGE software year and a big push into a 64-bit era. By the end of Next year 64-bit will be dead. Unless IBM decides it needs to inspect it's own colon closer!

[HyperX]

Noone is posting anymore <sniffs lonley>

I wish I worked for Apple! I would make GREAT products! Ipod with Bluetooth so you could go wireless headphones and control it with your cell phone! Woohoo! Dial Contacts from your Ipod or Simply Share a song between 2 ipods wirelessly <or even just song info so they can buy it off itunes thereselves>. I will just continue to dream though..

<Snores and dreams of working for apple, I would settle even being a Mac Genius (as long as gud spweling isnt rekwired)>

[phantompigger]

Although I'm inclined to believe that we won't see new iMacs at WWDC, I don't understand why so many people seem to think WWDC is a conference for "pro users." It's not. It's a conference for developers, who create products for all Macs, and therefore, for all levels of users.

Consumer-oriented iBooks, eMacs and iMacs generally outsell the professional-grade Power Macintoshes and PowerBooks, so it's reasonable to assume that developers have a vested interest in having a little hands-on with new additions to the consumer product line.

NAB and Seybold are conferences aimed at "pro" users, not WWDC.

As for Think Secret's suggestion that the timing (i.e., the end of June) is all wrong for the introduction of a new iMac, well, that doesn't add up either. The original iMac was unveiled May 1998—just five days before that year's WWDC. The next major revision was announced in October of 1999, and then the flat-panel iMac made its debut in January 2002. So clearly, there's been no consistent strategy in unveiling updated iMacs; they've all been announced whenever the company has bloody well wanted to.

The only thing that is predictable is that Apple tends to announce products before they're ready to ship. This often gets enthusiasts salivating and it generates huge preorders that the company can brag about. So announcing an iMac sooner and delivering it later (after scores of orders rolls in) is expected. Regardless of what Think Secret may think, it makes sense for Apple to unveil the new iMac within the next few weeks to raise awareness of the new product and encourage educational orders, be they from institutions or the back-to-school crowd.

I've got a hunch we'll see the new iMac the same week as Macworld Expo Boston. Seems like the best way to pour salt in the wound, doesn't it?

[Mord]

why?


because i am a geek thats why and the imac just dose not do it for me the cube did and my B&W did and back when the bondi blue imac came out i sure as hell wanted one but i need tweakability i want i need a modular system so i can swap out parts and replace them with better parts swap fans for better ones overclock without taking an hour to get the thing apart + the non removable lcd thing annoys me

[AidenShaw]

Why pull an AMD (wow Athlon FX with no 64-bit software. Love that 32-bit mode)?

This is funny, considering that OS X only runs in 32-bit mode!

Where's the 64-bit software for the Mac???

[HyperX]

This is funny, considering that OS X only runs in 32-bit mode!

Where's the 64-bit software for the Mac???

I said apple ISNT in a rush because there isn't 64-bit software out yet. So why do more then the powermac. Let the developers catch up. Apple is 50% software with 50% hardware. I was saying it was the mistake AMD made with the Athlon 64/FX. Consumers dont NEED 64-bit since there isnt anything to take advantage of it!

Apple Has only put the G5 in The top of the TOP line. Where AMD went Optron/FX/64 as quick as they could. Now they have a super fast processor running with no real software for it yet. Nor did they let the support technology catch up either (DDR2 <at FASTER then 533 MHZ>, PCI express, HD Audio, you get the idea) If Apple threw the G5 in notebook and imacs ASAP whats the REAL advantage? Take a G4 1.5 next to a G5 1.6 and in the 32-bit world, they are kissing cousins. Except to put the G5 in an imac or powerbook is a major headache. Apple wants to do it RIGHT. Let there be software/devlopment time. Let there be time to make GOOD hardware choices. Build a BETTER product.

That being said, if apple Put G5's in everything I wouldn't complain. I just am not going to complain if they DONT! I will wait.. But my patience runs out in 1 years time ;)

[AidenShaw]

Isn;t that what I said? I said apple ISNT in a rush because there isn't 64-bit software out yet. So why do more then the powermac. Let the developers catch up. Apple is 50% software with 50% hardware.

I was saying it was the mistake AMD made with the Athlon 64/FX. Consumers dont NEED 64-bit since there isnt anything to take advantage of it!

It's wierd how you agree with me but type it so negitive like <tsk tsk>


There's a big difference - there *are* several 64-bit operating systems available for the Opteron/Athlon 64. You *can* run your own 64-bit programs - like the boys with the Opteron 64-bit supercomputers do.

Apple *should* be in a rush to get a 64-bit O/S out to its developers - how can you develop 64-bit applications for the Mac today? I was told by an Apple employee that Apple will announce the 64-bit roadmap for OSX at WWDC. It's about time.

Mac/OS X is 32-bit only, though. In spite of this, you see things like
http://images.apple.com/g5processor/images/indextitle06082004.gif

hyping the 64-bit processor (but, like you say, love that 32-bit mode).

Sorry that I misunderstood your implication about developers, but the crack about the Athlon 64 seemed to be taking a swipe at AMD for doing *exactly* what Apple is doing.

And, I won't buy the argument that "Power Mac is a pro machine". Any consumer who wants a separate monitor has to buy a PowerMac. The PM is the only expandable machine in the line, so a fair number of them are for consumers.

What about the early "G5 blows you through the wall" TV ad - was that kid in his parent's house a "pro" ??? What about the dual-page "First 64-bit Desktop" ads in consumer magazines like Time and Newsweek?

Apple is pushing the "64-bit myth" hard and strong to people who don't know anything other than "a bigger number *must* be better"....

[iMeowbot]

Tell me isn't WWDC more for Pro Users?
WWDC isn't really for end users at all, as such.
so why will they announce something for the Joe Smoo??
It's pretty obvious that Apple quietly repositioned things as soon as they realized the price on those LCDs wasn't going to drop any time soon. eMac took over the old iMac position, and iMac moved up to high end consumer/mainstream professional. The vast majority of professional users don't need a PowerMac tower; the idea that all people who use OS X systems for work are doing high end multimedia work or supercomputing is just silly. For example, what would the NSW traffic authority have done with G5s at their customer service desks? The iMac was just right for their application.
My bet is that they will announce something Cool and we will be over the moon.
They do have a tendency to pull stunts like that, don't they? :)

[myselfke]

I've got information that already the new screens are shipped to the resellers ....

[Cooknn]

I've got information that already the new screens are shipped to the resellers ....Would that include Best Buy? I would assume it would...

[BakedBeans]

I've got information that already the new screens are shipped to the resellers ....


what information is that and from what source?

[nsb3000]

Would that include Best Buy? I would assume it would...

Best Buy selles Apple displays?

[Cooknn]

Best Buy selles Apple displays?Yep! (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1058792249125&skuId=5821257&productCategoryId=cat01012&type=product) with a no questions asked return policy in case of "pixel anamolies" ;)

[reckless_0001]

So all this means is that the flat computer that might be released on Monday isn't going to be called an iMac.

[Photorun]

I've got information that already the new screens are shipped to the resellers ....

I just love idiots like this who make some off-the-cuff comment but haven't the b*lls to back it up without any information. It's like the guy a few months ago on these forums saying Formac had new cinema-like displays coming out and everyone jumped on him in the forums for not divulding, finally he put up some info it appeared he came up with, a supposed letter he got from Formac. So I sent it to Formac and they said 1. they couldn't comment on things in development and 2. it was a fake letter.

If you have information/sources here, give details, if not, don't say anything.

[Krevnik]

Exactly. I think we will see G5 iMacs or at least an announcement. The iMacs weren't updated. Something gives.

And the Think Secret article completely jokes about the iMac bit - "Apple is laughing at the rumours"? I think they don't know anything. They haven't been that accurate lately anyway. It's pure speculation.

In fact, the article is written in a jovial, jokey and coloquial sort of way - completely out of sync with the normal professional and serious manner of writing that Think Secret is legendary for. Seems like they were drunk when they wrote it. :D

Here is the thing, ThinkSecret has still had the most accurate reporting this year... they don't post unless they have good reason to believe it is true. They got the GM announcement for ARD2 right, and they got the DETAILS on the G5 refresh correct. I would hardly say they haven't been accurate lately, but I would agree they haven't been posting information on future releases lately.

ThinkSecret doesn't discount an iMac update this year, they just claim it won't be announced at WWDC. I tend to agree, do you push a new iMac at a DEVELOPER's conference? Don't be silly, you want your developers to buy shiny G5s and Powerbooks. This conference is for the developers, and so any announcements would be geared towards that crowd's demographic (i.e, no iMac/iBook/iPod announcements).

I would side with TS on this one and say your iMac upgrade is due later in the year, but September at the latest (IMO), so production can rev up by December.

[Krevnik]

Apple *should* be in a rush to get a 64-bit O/S out to its developers - how can you develop 64-bit applications for the Mac today? I was told by an Apple employee that Apple will announce the 64-bit roadmap for OSX at WWDC. It's about time.

I can develop 64-bit applications today... however, I am still limited by a 32-bit application memory space (4GB), and 32-bit addressing with the OS. But that doesn't stop me from using all 64 bits in my calculation-heavy code... or altivec (depending on the data being grinded).

So, just because the OS is 32-bit (and imposes SOME limitations in the process), doesn't mean I can't develop apps that take advantage of 64-bit integer math. Not to mention that most consumer-level apps (Photoshop isn't consumer-level, and would probably benefit from 64-bit enhancements in some areas) don't need to go 64-bit for quite some time, as they don't need the extra RAM access or the larger number space for processing quite yet.

Yes, it is hyped. Yes, this hype is 'bad'. Although, anyone remember what happened when 32-bit processing was creeping into systems?

[Apple of my eye]

I missed the renderings on thinksecret.com. But are these renderings from http://www.engadget.com/entry/5844174639663617/ similar. If so, RAD!!!

[BakedBeans]

I missed the renderings on thinksecret.com. But are these renderings from http://www.engadget.com/entry/5844174639663617/ similar. If so, RAD!!!


in a word.... no nothing like that

[Apple of my eye]

and more

[Downdivx]

and more

I'm pretty sure those pictures were actually designed by somebody on this forum. I seem to remember them going through a few revisions about a month or so ago. Those pictures are just a powermac sideways with a black screen inserted. I think I remember a second revision with firewire and USB ports on the front. Think Secret says the displays are going to be connected via one rear, adjustable base.

Whitaker

[Porchland]

Yep! (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1058792249125&skuId=5821257&productCategoryId=cat01012&type=product) with a no questions asked return policy in case of "pixel anamolies" ;)

I just checked Best Buy's web site, and they carry a full line of desktops (iMac, PowerMac), notebooks (iBooks, PowerBooks), iPods (15, 20, 40, mini) and displays (17, 20, 23). All for the same prices as listed on apple.com.

I haven't noticed any Apple displays in the stores. Anyone know whether most Best Buy stores are stocking the full line? How long has Best Buy had Apple?

[Porchland]

and more

This curved-bottom design is very promising but doesn't seem to lend itself to wall-mounting. Maybe this style is going to replace the 17/20/23 currently available with a slightly different style for a larger display.

Then again, maybe there's a seam at the bottom of the display where the curved bottom can be removed.

[wdlove]

I just checked Best Buy's web site, and they carry a full line of desktops (iMac, PowerMac), notebooks (iBooks, PowerBooks), iPods (15, 20, 40, mini) and displays (17, 20, 23). All for the same prices as listed on apple.com.

I haven't noticed any apple displays in the stores. Anyone know whether most Best Buy stores are stocking the full line? How long has Best Buy had Apple?

I was at my local Best Buy about a month ago, they didn't have any Apple equipment at all. It was mainly window's. They had modems for Mac's and some software.

[johnpaul191]

Normally I wouldn't care about an iMac release, but given the pathetic rev.B PowerMac update with a bunch of dead end technology, I am now bummed-out.

If there is no new iMac, I hope we see a G5 cube or something of that ilk because I don't want to spend 5 grand on what Apple is currently offering for the PM line.

Also, I hope to God Apple is smart enough and release matching wireless keyboards and mice with the new displays. It would be even worse than the current mismatching to have white kb/mouse and metal everything else.

I am very disappointed right now, but I suspect we are all going to be blown away. It's been a quiet year, and Apple really need the developer community and wants to build up WWDC attendance, so I suspect they have a ton of great things in store for us.

the RevB G5 is still awesome. Apple didn't punish us, they hit a technological hurdle that also has Intel and AMD spinning their tires. They do not owe us some other special device to make up for the processor issues. The towers are still damn cool.

G5 cube at this point would be either slow, or require a fan.... neither seems like a selling point.

honestly, i don't think i want a wireless keyboard/mouse. i don't drag my G4 tower around, and it's on 24/7. last thing i want to do is pollute the envoiroment with batteries (disposible or rechargable) when a lil cable will give me all the juice i need. that being said, the wireless bluetooth mouse is an amazing idea for powerbooks with BT built in. as someone looking at new towers, i see no need for a wireless keyboard. maybe as a BTO or aftermarket option, but eh.

WWDC attendence is not to see some special device released. the keynote is just that... a keynote. the real fun stuff is the rest of the conference about the inner working of 10.4 and how it works, and how the developers make their software take advantage of what's coming in the fall (or whenever 10.4 is out). the actualy developers are not there to report to the Mac community about the new toys, that's what the press is there for and they only stay for a few hours out of the whole deal.

[whooleytoo]

Apple *should* be in a rush to get a 64-bit O/S out to its developers - how can you develop 64-bit applications for the Mac today? I was told by an Apple employee that Apple will announce the 64-bit roadmap for OSX at WWDC. It's about time.

The timing should be very interesting.

Apple have already stated, after Tiger, major OS updates will be less frequent. (/Tangent - I think even the codename suggests that: previous codenames such as Cheetah, Jaguar etc were applied to give an impression of sleekness and speed to a sluggish OS. Tiger implies strength, stability, ruggedness).

Since we're currently on OS updates of roughly 12 to 15 months, we can assume there's not going to be a major release after Tiger for 18 months to 2 years (or more?).

This leaves three possibilites:
1) Tiger is 64bit. - Unlikely, it doesn't give developers enough time to rebuild their apps and test them. Unless, of course, Tiger isn't actually released for many months yet!

2) Apple slip out a 64 bit OS between 10.4 and 10.5 - This might be possible, a sort of 'soft release' of a 64 bit OS, that developers and early adopters (i.e. the lunatic fringe) can use and iron out the bugs before it becomes more mainstream in 10.5.

3) 10.5 Cougar/Tabby is 64 bit - which means we don't see a 64 bit OS for another 2 years?

This post was meant to clarify things, but I've only succeeded in confusing myself. (Wow.. that should be my new sig..)

[itsa]

STOOOOPPPP!!!!!

Laptops are NOT on par with desktops PERIOD.

The number #1 priority for a portable is to be portable.
Power is second. You cannot look at desktops and laptops
being in the same categories. PowerBooks are NOT PowerMacs.
The only similarity is some marketing ( ie: Power) to streamline
the products, that's it.

If people want a G5 right now than they should just get a desktop.

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!

[johnpaul191]

OK, just a short observation...

We all know about two new machine codes in 10.3.4 - the first was 7,3 (Dual G5/2.5) and the other is 8,1. So if there are no new iMacs at WWDC what is this code for? Just a new G4 iMac "silent" update in a few weeks or something completly new?

well say they released a new G5 tower today.... it might say 10.3.4 or 10.3.5 but it would not be the same 10.3.5 that you and i download in a few days. Apple has shipped machines with an OS number that is not our for the public, and it's a special build to enable that piece of hardware. when there are unidentified machines in the OS codes..... it could be a sign or not.

could that code have been the Xserve? what about the other G5s? did all 3 new ones use the same ID code?

[AidenShaw]

I can develop 64-bit applications today... however, I am still limited by a 32-bit application memory space (4GB), and 32-bit addressing with the OS. But that doesn't stop me from using all 64 bits in my calculation-heavy code... or altivec (depending on the data being grinded).

So, just because the OS is 32-bit (and imposes SOME limitations in the process), doesn't mean I can't develop apps that take advantage of 64-bit integer math.


It is the prevailing view in computer science that a "64-bit operating system" is one that presents a 64-bit virtual address space to the application. (That is, the value of sizeof(void *) is 8.

All common compilers (gcc, vc++, ...) provide 64-bit integers as a native (to the programmer) data type. You don't need 64-bit integer hardware to easily program 64-bit integer operations.

To point out a couple of other absurdities in your argument:

o VMX registers are 128-bit, but you don't claim that OS X on a G4 or G5 is a 128-bit system

o The OS X on a G4 has 32-bit integers, 32-bit pointers, 64-bit floats and 128-bit AltiVec - but you call this 32-bits

o The OS X on a G5 has (optional) 64-bit integers, 32-bit pointers, 64-bit floats and 128-bit AltiVec - but you claim that this is 64-bit


When pointers are 64-bits, it's a 64-bit operating system. The size of data is not used to describe the "bitness" of the O/S, it's the size of the pointers that is important.

[johnpaul191]

I was at my local Best Buy about a month ago, they didn't have any Apple equipment at all. It was mainly window's. They had modems for Mac's and some software.

Apple was trying out "store in a store" kinda thing for Best Buys in select areas. the testing period is over (predetermined test timeline, not like something went really wrong). i never really heard if there were any public conclusions to how it worked out. i guess Apple and Best Buy went over the data to determine if it's worth partnering up. It's possible the test stores kept the Apple gear at least till they figure out what's happening.

i know a few years back some Best Buys sold CRT iMacs and maybe more. i never saw them in a store near me (Philly PA area), so i guess that was limited too.

[iMeowbot]

ThinkSecret doesn't discount an iMac update this year, they just claim it won't be announced at WWDC. I tend to agree, do you push a new iMac at a DEVELOPER's conference? Don't be silly, you want your developers to buy shiny G5s and Powerbooks. This conference is for the developers, and so any announcements would be geared towards that crowd's demographic (i.e, no iMac/iBook/iPod announcements).
Really, it's reasonable to push the entire product line at a developer event, because what the whole spectrum customers will be buying dictates the type of software it will be profitable to develop.

[iMeowbot]

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!
Except for that first clunky portable attempt, they've always been called PowerBooks.

For comparison, the original high-end PowerBook, the 170, had a 25 MHz '030, while the top-end Quadra 900 released at the same time used an '040 at 25. An '040-based PB (the 520) didn't appear until almost 2 years later.

The unusually low power requirements of the G4 allowed notebook customers to get a bit of a free ride for a while, but no way could that have lasted forever.

[3.1416]

1) Tiger is 64bit. - Unlikely, it doesn't give developers enough time to rebuild their apps and test them. Unless, of course, Tiger isn't actually released for many months yet!
I agree that Tiger is unlikely to be 64-bit, but when Apple does release a 64-bit OS X, it will almost certainly run 32-bit apps transparently. There's no way they'd break binary compatibility with the G4 and with every prior OS version.

[jocknerd]

I would think G5 imac is not up coming before a G5 powerbook.
It just does not add up. That would all but kill apple. You just can't have your low end, out working your pro line.
I'm sure they have them made, but just can not send it to the line yet.

Wrong, having nothing to sell to consumers would harm Apple more than having a consumer level desktop outperform a business laptop.

Apple needs a consumer presence. The current iMacs and eMacs don't cut it. Drop the screen Steve! Give the consumers something for around $1000. Something that is a little expandable like being able to swap video cards, add memory. Trust me, your professionals aren't going to drop the PowerMac for it.

My neighbor wants a new computer. I'm trying to get her to go to Apple. But you don't have a lot for me to show her. Make a consumer line that isn't expensive to build (i.e. current iMac) so you can sell it at a price that is within range of competing PC's.

[whooleytoo]

I agree that Tiger is unlikely to be 64-bit, but when Apple does release a 64-bit OS X, it will almost certainly run 32-bit apps transparently. There's no way they'd break binary compatibility with the G4 and with every prior OS version.

Heh, if there's one thing Apple should be good at at this stage, it's handling transitions (such as 68K -> PPC with 68K emulation, OS 9 -> OSX with Classic)!

[iDave]

I haven't noticed any Apple displays in the stores. Anyone know whether most Best Buy stores are stocking the full line? How long has Best Buy had Apple?
I was in Best Buy in Asheville, NC in May. I couldn't find any Apple computers or displays. They had iPods though.

[paulypants]

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!

Nope. It's only marketing to denote that it is the most
powerful portable they offer -- NOT the most powerful system.
Desktops have ALWAYS been more powerful than portables...
and should be. Problem is people are caught up in the "coolness"
of portables and have the unrealistic expectation that they will
be as powerful or more powerful than the top desktop systems.

[BakedBeans]

what is everyone harping on about???

imac cant have higher specs than laptops???

well until the newly released rev c powerbooks were released the imacs where at 1.25 and the powerbooks were at 1ghz

um.... yeah i agree here is no way apple would have higher speecs in the imac than the powerbooks :rolleyes:

[Mord]

put the crack pipe down the rev. b powerbooks were at 1GHz 12" 1.25GHz 15" and 1.33GHz 17"

[Coca-Cola]

I believe a new iMac is coming. Steve would be smart to notice concerns with the G4 iMac's price, non-removable lcd, and lack of G5. Apple needs a better low end line up. A 500 dollar iMac. The display needs to be seperate so people can upgrade and take their monitor with them. Apple could also increase sales of displays by not using the superior ADC connector. I have witnessed PC users purchasing the big apple displays. They really knock your socks off. An upgraded display that PC users can adopt more easily should be in the works. Apple also needs to start moving more G5 chips. Single g5 iMacs are a possiblitly and won't compete with the dual G5 Powermacs. The best part about a low end G5 iMac is the attraction to switchers. They may have a display already. Who wouldn't want to dish out 500 bucks for a fast computer with system software as good as iTunes?

[Mord]

I believe a new iMac is coming. Steve would be smart to notice concerns with the G4 iMac's price, non-removable lcd, and lack of G5. Apple needs a better low end line up. A 500 dollar iMac. The display needs to be seperate so people can upgrade and take their monitor with them. Apple could also increase sales of displays by not using the superior ADC connector. I have witnessed PC users purchasing the big apple displays. They really knock your socks off. An upgraded display that PC users can adopt more easily should be in the works. Apple also needs to start moving more G5 chips. Single g5 iMacs are a possiblitly and won't compete with the dual G5 Powermacs. The best part about a low end G5 iMac is the attraction to switchers. They may have a display already. Who wouldn't want to dish out 500 bucks for a fast computer with system software as good as iTunes?

again put the crack pipe down there will never be a $500 mac ever not in a million years not unless there is some serious deflation of the dollar

the point of the imac is it is all in one. what i would like is the moniter to be detachable from the current imac so you could buy a stand that has a dvi adc or vga connector on it so you can reuse it.

but that will never happen

i would like a cpu daughter card so that powerlogix or sonnet can step in in a few years time.

but that will never happen

I would like the pc industry to adopt adc (and that nearly happened) i like the simplicity of having one cable.

but that will never happen

come on people no more crack pipe posts

[BakedBeans]

put the crack pipe down the rev. b powerbooks were at 1GHz 12" 1.25GHz 15" and 1.33GHz 17"

yeah thats almost what i said....
bloody crack messin with my head...

but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook

[broken_keyboard]

I don't know why Apple even bothers with a consumer desktop any more. Laptops have enough power and will soon be no more expensive. Will the next iMac be the last?

I don't see Pros using exclusively laptops though.

I want a computer that is like a rug and you unfold it and hang it on the wall. Not a rug as is a wig, that would be just gross. Because if computers are like rugs then in 3rd world bizarres they can carry computers on their shoulders.

[paulypants]

yeah thats almost what i said....
bloody crack messin with my head...

but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook

Sooooo Apple should continue to use a G4 chip in the iMac until
the powerbooks go G5, then put a G5 in the iMac, but only if
it's a slower speed than the chips in the powerbooks? So the
iMacs may get another G4 speedbump sometime this year?

Powerbooks aren't going G5 for awhile.

Gimme some of that crack you're smokin cause I can't see it your
way unless i'm high...

[3.1416]

yeah thats almost what i said....
but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook
No, I don't. Assume for the moment that Apple can ship a G5 iMac this month, but can't ship a G5 Powerbook until the end of the year. Are you really saying that it would make sense for them to sit on the iMac for 6 months and suffer awful sales, just to maintain an artificial market segmentation?

[BakedBeans]

No, I don't. Assume for the moment that Apple can ship a G5 iMac this month, but can't ship a G5 Powerbook until the end of the year. Are you really saying that it would make sense for them to sit on the iMac for 6 months and suffer awful sales, just to maintain an artificial market segmentation?


guys thats not what im saying.... im saying that the imacs have been better speced (or the same) than laptops before .... so why not again...
dont get me wrong...i think they should release the imacs.... sorry for any confusion but if you re read my post i said is it unrealistic to have better imacs not it is unrealistic...... crack smokers lol

[mambodancer]

Nope. It's only marketing to denote that it is the most
powerful portable they offer -- NOT the most powerful system.
Desktops have ALWAYS been more powerful than portables...
and should be. Problem is people are caught up in the "coolness"
of portables and have the unrealistic expectation that they will
be as powerful or more powerful than the top desktop systems.

Exactly.

Power also refers to expandibility: Monitor spanning, gigabit ethernet, PCMCIA, firewire 800, DVI and S-video support, superdrive, built-in blue tooth and airport extreme.

Within the Macintosh product family there are three lines: laptops (iBook/Powerbook), all-in-one desktops (eMac/iMac), and PowerMacs. Powerbook helps distinguish the difference between the consumer level laptop and the professional level laptop.

Finally, the 17" and 20" iMacs have always surpassed the high end Powerbooks in terms of processor performance but not in expandibility. That's why I think apple is saving the introduction of the iMac for WWDC-that and the fact that eMac availability is constrained through the next several weeks, Apple has told us that iMacs are no longer available for reorder (I work at an Apple authorized dealer), and if Apple were going to just speed bump the iMac (to 1.5GHZ G4) I would have thought they would have introduced it shortly after the latest eMac update. I personally think "Think Secret" is wrong on no iMac intros.

That's my two cents worth. We'll all know on Monday.

[paulypants]

guys thats not what im saying.... im saying that the imacs have been better speced (or the same) than laptops before .... so why not again...
dont get me wrong...i think they should release the imacs.... sorry for any confusion but if you re read my post i said is it unrealistic to have better imacs not it is unrealistic...... crack smokers lol

Oh sorry...

Damn crack...

;)

[AoWolf]

France. Not Hilton. G5 iMac's announced in gay Pa-REE!!! here's how it'll go down...

Stevie is introduced as "STEPHAN" as he takes the stage in Paris Aug 31st. Clad in trademark black shirt (but with thick ribbed turtleneck that the Parisians go ga-ga over) and Jeans. A look that Derrick Zoolander would call "Derelicte".

Lights dim...

He launches into 20 minutes of boring rehash of progress we all already know the company has made (OS X adoption, iPod's installed base and last quarter's sales, yada, yada, yada)...

Get's heckled in French ("TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH") when he comments on recent PowerMac upgrades...plus heckling in English by a few "Freedom Fry" loving "stinking Amehri-cahns" i.e. "Yanks".

And then he pops the question...

"What do Quentin Taratino, France, and McDonald's have in common?"
"Answer: Le Royale with Cheese"

"Now after today, what does APPLE, France, and the rest of the world have in common?"
"No it's not the iTumes Music Store. It's...

LeMac Royale. But there's no cheese here!" (cue sly Jobsian grin)

(Cue the music "Stuck in the middle with you". Out pops a LeMac Royale (redesigned G5 iMac replacement) from a rising pedestal in the floor as Ive and the design team come on stage and dance to the music (all of them still having both ears however)).

Ive presents the new LeMac Royale design, explaining that the previous iMac Sunflower design, while good looking, was "gimpy" due to the now woefully underpowered G4 and the lack of expansion. And he explained how he motivated his design team, suggesting that if they didn't come up with something "insanely great" that he'd "get medieval on their a%%es."

After some Ivesian spieling, Jobs takes over again, thanking Ives for his "bloody good" work while secretly fantasizing again about Sheryl Crow. (didn't anybody think there was something going on there?)

Jobs goes on to introduce some new, cool, yet underwhleming peripheral products all priced from $79-99. And he introduces Michael Moore as the next board member of Apple Computer, replacing Al Gore -- whose 15 minutes have already expired. (Justification: all of Farenheit 9/11 was produced on Mac hardware and software. Go FCP!!!)

And then as Jobs heads out and the lights dim, a larger than life face-shot of Samuel L Jackson fills the screen behind him. Jobs strikes his "Magnum" pose and begins to quote Ezekiel 25:17 ..."The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (cough--Bill Gates--cough) Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. (Meeeee!) For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."

...and for those who stay for the credits, a special clip of "The Invicibles" plays for those still in their seat/logged on - featuring Bill Gates as the evil villain, taking a licking from...you guessed it...Samuel L Jackson's "Frozone".

And GOODNIGHT from Paris! :D


Are you the guy who did polycon for nova?

I think we will see new macs but maybe a name change.

[melgross]

While I'm not going to get directly involved in the argument by stating what Apple will do, as some here are doing, There is a point to be made.

Does anyone here think that if Jobs announced at the convention that Apple has new G5 iMacs with flat screens attached to the box with wireless mice and keyboards, that the audience would stand up and go "Boooo... this isn't a pro product, what do you think you are doing, Boooo... Stop insulting us!".

Or maybe instead "Right on! A new product we can write new software for and get more paying customers! More sales! More work! More money! Hail to the chief!"

I think the latter is more likely. I think that even Jobs knows that things are changing, and that he can't have everything his own way. If new machines are ready, he will probably announce them if the channel is getting tight, something people here seem to disagree on.

Market share is continuing to slip, and the comparison with BMW is absurd. Less share equals less developers, which equals less share, etc. Even Jobs must know that by now. Remember, he promised us 10% last year, and now we're below 3%. This has to stop! Getting new products out as fast as possible is imperative.

In the Pc world there are new products every three months or so. Every time a new development or advance comes out you see it reflected in new mobo's the next week. Apple's staid intro's are thought over for too long. there are now over a dozen Express mobo's out there.
Intel's will be there soon, and estimates are that by January, at least 50% of new Pc will have Express. Where are we? I hope Apple says something about this. I bought two G5's for my place, but I won't buy one for myself until Express is in it. I'm far from being the only one either.

Well, not too much longer. I hope my stock holds up.

[phantompigger]

I don't know why Apple even bothers with a consumer desktop any more. Laptops have enough power and will soon be no more expensive. .

I completely agree. And at the moment, I don't know why anyone would choose a 15" iMac over a 12" iBook, unless they absolutely needed a larger hard drive or had difficulty seeing the smaller display. The iBook has 512K L2 cache, for crying out loud. The iMac has none at all.

iBook 12" ($1099):
1GHz PowerPC G4; 512K L2 cache @ 1GHz; 12-inch TFT Display; 1024x768 resolution; 256MB DDR266 SDRAM; 30GB Ultra ATA drive; Combo Drive; ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 32MB DDR video memory AirPort Extreme ready
$1099.

iMac 15" ($1299):
15-inch LCD; 1GHz PowerPC G4; NVIDIA GeForce4 MX with 32MB DDR video memory; 256MB DDR333 SDRAM; 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive; Combo Drive; Apple Pro Speakers; AirPort Extreme Ready; Bluetooth Option

The 14" iBook would give the 17" iMac a real run for its money were it not for its low-resolution display. So, yeah, we're already at the point where a mid-range consumer desktop (at least one that has a fixed display and limited expandability) is actually more expensive than a comparable destkop.

[BakedBeans]

While I'm not going to get directly involved in the argument by stating what Apple will do, as some here are doing, There is a point to be made.

Does anyone here think that if Jobs announced at the convention that Apple has new G5 iMacs with flat screens attached to the box with wireless mice and keyboards, that the audience would stand up and go "Boooo... this isn't a pro product, what do you think you are doing, Boooo... Stop insulting us!".

Or maybe instead "Right on! A new product we can write new software for and get more paying customers! More sales! More work! More money! Hail to the chief!"

I think the latter is more likely. I think that even Jobs knows that things are changing, and that he can't have everything his own way. If new machines are ready, he will probably announce them if the channel is getting tight, something people here seem to disagree on.

Market share is continuing to slip, and the comparison with BMW is absurd. Less share equals less developers, which equals less share, etc. Even Jobs must know that by now. Remember, he promised us 10% last year, and now we're below 3%. This has to stop! Getting new products out as fast as possible is imperative.

In the Pc world there are new products every three months or so. Every time a new development or advance comes out you see it reflected in new mobo's the next week. Apple's staid intro's are thought over for too long. there are now over a dozen Express mobo's out there.
Intel's will be there soon, and estimates are that by January, at least 50% of new Pc will have Express. Where are we? I hope Apple says something about this. I bought two G5's for my place, but I won't buy one for myself until Express is in it. I'm far from being the only one either.

Well, not too much longer. I hope my stick holds up.

very well said mel.... i think your spot on,,,, but buy some of the decisions apple make... it somtimes makes me wonder if they really care about market share.... if they do it is imperitive that they release new flashy imac soon....

[Mord]

iMac 15" ($1299):
15-inch LCD; 1GHz PowerPC G4; NVIDIA GeForce4 MX with 32MB DDR video memory; 256MB DDR333 SDRAM; 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive; Combo Drive; Apple Pro Speakers; AirPort Extreme Ready; Bluetooth Option


the imac has 256kb L2 cache (which is crap i know) iBooks currently offer good value at the moment i know and your point is valid

[phantompigger]

the imac has 256kb L2 cache (which is crap i know) iBooks currently offer good value at the moment i know and your point is valid

You're right; I forgot that the iMac has 256K L2 cache on-chip with that particular G4. I guess it should also be stated that the iMac has 167MHz bus versus the iBook's 133MHz, but that's really splitting hairs. They're pretty much the same speed, and yet the laptop costs less than the desktop. That's an odd reversal.

[nexusfx]

Let's look at this logistically, we all know Jobs is pissed about the promise he was unable to keep, but it was completely out of his hands. When you go to a whole new architecture you expect things to run more smoothly through development, and that WOULD have been true had it not been for them trying to rework the architecture with 90nm technology right after releasing the new G5 tech. Normally you stick with a new tech and once it's established, THEN try to improve upon it. I am glad however they got the 90nm thing down now, that means they can develope the current G5 technology faster because they're not trying to rework something new into it yet, like 65nm technology.

Because of this we are just now seeing 2.5Ghz machines and no other line has been updated as of yet. Though if they use the same formula they did for the G4's, the Powerbooks SHOULD get the G5 update first, then the iMacs, then iBooks. Because of the 90nm tech they can focus more on G5 Powerbooks and more efficiant cooling for the G5's themselves.

I've been reading some posts on renaming the iMac line......ahem.......NO! from a business standpoint that would be STUPID, the "iMac" name isn't just a product line, it is something that represents Apple's come back from the terrible position they were in back in 1997. They wouldn't drop a household name like that considering all of the other product lines "i"Pod, "i"Tunes, "i"DVD "i"blah blah you get the picture. It's part of what Apple is about now, you don't drop something that arguably saved you from possiblly being out of business by this time.

Anyways my prediction for the next year January Powerbook G5's, then iMac's possibly by June. As for WWDC, Displays (duh), iMac Speed bumps, and Suprises (Maybe a G5 Cube? Sounds rediculous but hey, stranger things have happened)

Oh and about the Displays, I mentioned that the 20" had a higher "contrast ratio" I meant "Brightness" the 17" and 23" now have a 200 while the 20" has a 230 making it a much more vibrant LCD than even the flagship at the moment.

[jakemikey]

Anyways my prediction for the next year January Powerbook G5's, then iMac's possibly by June. As for WWDC, Displays (duh), iMac Speed bumps, and Suprises (Maybe a G5 Cube? Sounds rediculous but hey, stranger things have happened)


"...and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year," said Boger."

So let me get this right...we DEFINITELY shouldn't expect a G5 Powerbook by the end of the year, but a few weeks after that it'll magically appear at Macworld?

At this point Apple would be lucky to get a G5 in anything it can - so please, no more posts about Apple's upgrade "formulas" (ie Powerbook MUST come before iMac, etc.) and how it would be complete and utter suicide for Apple to release a G5 iMac before a G5 Powerbook.

[bankshot]

Really, it's reasonable to push the entire product line at a developer event, because what the whole spectrum customers will be buying dictates the type of software it will be profitable to develop.

This is true to some extent. But for the most part, I don't expect anything new in a G5 iMac that would be relevant to most developers. Certainly to application software developers, a G5 iMac looks and acts just like a G5 Power Mac. There really aren't many (if any?) 3rd party hardware add-ons that would be specific to the iMac - everything is standard, plugged into one of the usual ports. I don't see anything developers might need to know about a new iMac design.

The G5 Power Mac last year was a huge update to the Mac product line. There were a lot of things specific to the G5 chip (and Panther, in its support of the G5) that was very relevant to most developers. It made sense for Apple to make a big deal about that at the Developers Conference. A G5 iMac, whether one exists or not, is irrelevant to developers, and as such should debut at a consumer oriented event.

At least that's my line of reasoning. I'm not in the market for a new machine so I don't care one way or the other (other than it'll be neat to see it when it does eventually happen), but I never thought the iMac would be featured at any WWDC. It doesn't make any sense. But it'll be interesting to see what new things do get unveiled next week...

[Porchland]

Exactly.

Finally, the 17" and 20" iMacs have always surpassed the high end Powerbooks in terms of processor performance but not in expandibility. That's why I think apple is saving the introduction of the iMac for WWDC-that and the fact that eMac availability is constrained through the next several weeks, Apple has told us that iMacs are no longer available for reorder (I work at an Apple authorized dealer), and if Apple were going to just speed bump the iMac (to 1.5GHZ G4) I would have thought they would have introduced it shortly after the latest eMac update. I personally think "Think Secret" is wrong on no iMac intros.

That's my two cents worth. We'll all know on Monday.

Plus, free express shipping on all desktop and laptop orders through Sunday would seem to indicate some sort of forthcoming upgraded models.

[coattaker]

The news advisories against using Internet Explorer has made me think... could it be possible that Apple might introduce a new version of Safari at WWDC? For Mac and PC?

And what about a new version of Quicktime? Could that be on the cards?

I have no idea what's happening with the iMacs... but I work for an Australian reseller and we're not getting any more shipments of current models, so something must be going down very soon.

Wish it was being broadcast though... has it in fact been confirmed that it's not?

[iMeowbot]

The G5 Power Mac last year was a huge update to the Mac product line. There were a lot of things specific to the G5 chip (and Panther, in its support of the G5) that was very relevant to most developers. It made sense for Apple to make a big deal about that at the Developers Conference. A G5 iMac, whether one exists or not, is irrelevant to developers, and as such should debut at a consumer oriented event.

Oh, but it does make a difference. Does a smaller development house bother to do the extra work of tuning for G5 if that seems like too small a segment of the market to care about? When push comes to shove, it might be iffy. If suddenly there's a volume unit with those capabilities, making the extra effort becomes more attractive, and it would be worth Apple's while to make a big splash.

Microsoft did something along those lines years ago when not enough programmers were writing 32-bit stuff for NT. They released a library for Windows 3.x (Win32s) to expand the market size and make the porting work more attractive. It worked out really well for them.

[vknid]

The online Apple Store has the following estimated ship dates for iMacs:
15'' 7-10 days
17'' same day
20" same day
Perhaps when the G5 iMac is released the 17'' & 20" G4 models will stick around for a while (at reduced prices). Similar thing happened with the G3 iMacs after the G4's came out.

[aswitcher]

The online Apple Store has the following estimated ship dates for iMacs:
15'' 7-10 days
17'' same day
20" same day
Perhaps when the G5 iMac is released the 17'' & 20" G4 models will stick around for a while (at reduced prices). Similar thing happened with the G3 iMacs after the G4's came out.

Ok, looks like a sound theory.

[asif786]

I dont know what the situation in the US is, but here in the UK, our refurb store has been open all week (tues-sat) and it's been full of iMacs, iPods and studio displays.

Less of the iBooks and PBs tho..

[Shaggy_Alien]

Hi,

Well here is my Opinion.
Before we see a iMac G5, there will be a Powerbook G5.

We might see a Higher update or even a Dual G4 iMac (Why does everybody think it will be G5 what about G4.5?).
But that won't happen.
Unless they upgrade the Powerbook to G5 (won't happen soon) or maybe a Dual CPU Book (Lets make them Hotter), Just don't think there will be better iMac that will play there Power Apps better then the Powerbook.

I also think Apple is going to Milk the Music biz for a bit or even go deeper in to Home Entertainment.

But hey I can be Wrong right!

P.S. I still think Apple is ripping off Mac users that buy G5's Powermacs
512MB for over $2900,-!!! Come on Apple be real!!!

Shaggy

[LaMerVipere]

My opinion is that we will never see a G5, as we know it, in a PowerBook. It's far too hot and draws too much power to put it into a laptop sized enclosure and still have acceptable size and heat and battery life.

TS reports that the new iMac is already in production, just not ready to be released, so the whole "the technical problems of getting a G5 into an iMac is why it isn't going to be released at WWDC!" argument, is moot.

I don't see why people are so blown away and up in arms about the fact that, oh my god, apple may put the G5 into another desktop before it goes into the PowerBook! Why would apple keep from spreading the G5 throughout their line of desktops just because they can't, at the moment, put it into their laptops? thats just obsurd.

[nexusfx]

The entire line will eventually go G5 like Apple's done in the past with the G3. I based my Powerbook before iMac G5 update based soley on the history of releases, that tends to be the pattern, plus I'm sure that Apple would outfit the Pro-Line with G5's before they put them in the consumer line unless they had no alternative.

Can't wait for the conference, quite frankly the suspense is killin' me, and so is the speculation leading up to it.

Just wish I could afford the Dual 2.5 with the potential 30" display oh that would be sweet.

[Ouroboros]

why would apple CARE about what the developers think? wouldn't they just release the imac if it was ready to be released? what's the point? also, do you guys REALLY think that because the powerbook for sure can't have a next generation chip inside till next year, that we are going to have a G4 in an imac for arguably a year? in a year, NOBODY will buy a 1.5ghz imac.

sorry i just think it is so weird to be having these weird rules. the point is to make money. if you have a better option and its ready, you don't stop stocking imacs, and then hold off until next year sometime hoping an entirely different product gets the chip first. i just don't get it. if apple releases a g4 1.5ghz imac, why don't they just do it? why wait and wait and wait? the emac looks amazing compared to it, and so does the ibook as peole have mentioned. is there any evidence that the g4 will scale within the next year past 1.5ghz? maybe there is. but my asking this question is for one reason: if apple updates the imac to a 1.5ghz G4, and they have to wait till apple releases a g5 powerbook, we are looking at this next update as being a LONG update indeed, which would, in my opinion, totally kill the imac.

[quagmire]

I think everyone can agree that we are tired of hearing powerbook before imac. Apple will release a G5 computer when it is ready not due to patterns. According to this article posted here G5 Powerbooks end of 2004.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1617070,00.asp

[PRØBE]

Hi,

Well here is my Opinion.
Before we see a iMac G5, there will be a Powerbook G5.

We might see a Higher update or even a Dual G4 iMac (Why does everybody think it will be G5 what about G4.5?).
But that won't happen.
Unless they upgrade the Powerbook to G5 (won't happen soon) or maybe a Dual CPU Book (Lets make them Hotter), Just don't think there will be better iMac that will play there Power Apps better then the Powerbook.

I also think Apple is going to Milk the Music biz for a bit or even go deeper in to Home Entertainment.

But hey I can be Wrong right!

P.S. I still think Apple is ripping off Mac users that buy G5's Powermacs
512MB for over $2900,-!!! Come on Apple be real!!!

Shaggy




Oh the pain! Please PLEASE stop repeating that nonsensical argument of Apple holding off on G5s for the imac, just because we cant POSSIBLY have a consumer desktop more powerful than a laptop now can we?. That argument has NO logical foundation. So stop it stop it stop it. Ok?

Oh, and stop it! (just to be sure)

By the way, as of today 15" imacs have been put on discount by many resellers here in Portugal. This seems to fit with the theory of a new high-end model about to be introduced, while the current 20" and 17" remain in the product line.

PS: STOP IT!

[aethier]

The entire line will eventually go G5 like Apple's done in the past with the G3. I based my Powerbook before iMac G5 update based soley on the history of releases, that tends to be the pattern, plus I'm sure that Apple would outfit the Pro-Line with G5's before they put them in the consumer line unless they had no alternative.

Can't wait for the conference, quite frankly the suspense is killin' me, and so is the speculation leading up to it.

Just wish I could afford the Dual 2.5 with the potential 30" display oh that would be sweet.

i don't really see the whole thing with "consumer lineup vs. pro-line" does apple really think that it is only photoshop users who purchase powermodels, and webserfers who buy i/e lineup. i am 17, do not do any photoshop, only imovie video editing, lots of web reading, email, chat, word etc. and a tiny bit of gaming, yet i had (before canceling and gettting at 15 inch AL|PB when they came out) ordered a dual 2ghz radeon 9800 1 gig of ram G5. just because we do less doesn't mean we deserve less or want less power. also before getting the powerbook i never did video editing or anything.

my point is, if the "consumer" has money they'll go power line up. if the "pro user" doesn't have money, he'll be going imac/emac. there's no "berlin wall" seperating us into two hords of people.

point being: apple shouldn't bother waitng on the pb to put the g5 in the imac. if it improves sales, why not.\

aethier

[vknid]

Many are forgetting that the iMac is not the low-end all in one consumer system that it originally was. First, the eMac is now a better fit for that segment of the market. Second, look at the price. The iMac DV Special Edition I bought in November of 1999 was the high end consumer machine at $1399. That's $800 less than the 20" iMac today. The only thing consumer about the iMac line right now is the performance. Yet now that the G5's speed has created some breathing room in the line-up, the iMac can better fill the roll of high-end consumer/low-end professional machine. Think of it as the original role the G4 Cube was supposed to play. If you look at it that way, it makes sense to put a G5 in an iMac before a powerbook.

Or consider this. Was the G4 put into a powerbook first simply because the powerbook is for professionals?? No way. First, we were lucky that the G4 ran cool enough to be put in a notebook. Second, the G3 was clocking just as fast in the iMac as the G4 was when first intoduced in the powerbook. There just was not enough megahertz in the G4 to spread around between the "i" line and the "power" line. So the iMac remained a G3 because there really was no other way to differentiate between the model lines. Third, the original design for the G4 iMac was scrapped when Jobs saw the "magic sunflower" and the design team had to start from scratch. This delayed the new iMac and kept it with old design a bit longer that originally planned. I'm starting to ramble, but if I've prevented just one "The iMac CAN'T have a G5 before the Powerbook post!" it was worth it.

[iMeowbot]

i don't really see the whole thing with "consumer lineup vs. pro-line" does apple really think that it is only photoshop users who purchase powermodels, and webserfers who buy i/e lineup.

That garbage goes back to the late 1990s when Apple was in terrible condition and took some drastic measures to get a messy product line under control. The lineup was chopped down to four basic models, PowerMac, iMac, PowerBook and iBook. People seem to have got the impression that bailout mode would last forever, unalterably, but that was never the case.

As soon as the four boxes were filled in, the Cube appeared (and went away), then came xServe a bit later. Oh yeah, and then that pesky eMac thingy showed up. Meanwhile, the product mix stretched into all sorts of other directions with networking equipment, storage arrays, the music stuff, iSight, several major software acquisitions and so on.

Heck, the TV ad for the G5 tower depicted the thing in a home setting, and most of the recent product placements in office settings that I've noticed have been PowerBooks or iMacs (with the plain iBook getting little exposure at all).

So, um, what was my point? Oh yeah, that the four-part matrix is ancient history, may it rest in peace.