iPhone 3GS Capable of High-Definition Video Playback?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/20/iphone-3gs-capable-of-high-definition-video-playback/)

iLounge reports (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-3gs-capable-of-720p-1080p-hi-def-playback/) on a forum posting (http://bbs.weiphone.com/read.php?tid=469047) [Google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh&tl=en&u=http://bbs.weiphone.com/read.php?tid=469047)] at Chinese site WeiPhone in which a user claims to demonstrate 720p and 1080p high-definition video playback on the iPhone 3GS. The poster conducted a series of test using the FileAid (http://www.digidna.net/fileaid/) iPhone application to transfer video files of increasing resolution and bitrate to the iPhone 3GS, finding acceptable performance on video playback up to 1980 x 1080 resolution encoded in H.264 format at over 30 Mbps.A forum post to Chinese-language site weiphone.com indicates that the iPhone 3GS is capable of playing back both 720p and 1080p video encoded in H.264 through the built-in video player, suggesting that Apple is currently placing arbitrary limits on the device, either to preserve battery life or keep its functionality more consistent with that of prior iPhone OS devices. Using the free document storage and viewing application FileAid, forum member fridtear was able to circumvent Apple’s video restrictions, smoothly playing back files up to 30 Mbps in 1980x1080 resolution via the iPhone 3GS' built-in video player.While such high-resolution video is obviously not necessary for the iPhone itself, which offers only a 480 x 320 pixel display, many users are interested in outputting video for display on external monitors, and the iPhone 3GS is by default limited by Apple in that regard to the same 640 x 480 resolution, 1.5 Mbps standard used by older iPhone models. Of course, the large file sizes involved in high-definition, high bitrate video would restrict videos to relatively short clips given current iPhone storage capacities. The tests also did not address the effect of such video playback on heat or battery life under extended usage.

Rumors surfacing (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/next-generation-iphone-to-support-hd-video-and-apple-tv-like-behavior/) in late April hinted at high-definition capabilities for what turned out to be the iPhone 3GS, but while this latest report indicates that the hardware may be capable of it to at least some extent, Apple has elected not to enable it at this time.

Article Link: iPhone 3GS Capable of High-Definition Video Playback? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/20/iphone-3gs-capable-of-high-definition-video-playback/)

[MrCrowbar]

Makes sense to cripple the software, else people would whine about the capacities. Still, 1080p at 30 Mbps is rather impressive.

I'm still waiting for a reasonably prices camcorder that does 720p without being more blurry than a normal standard definition camcorder and doesn't skip frames when recording. :(

[Chaszmyr]

Makes sense to cripple the software, else people would whine about the capacities.

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.

[Mr. Gates]

Good things to come with 3.1 ?

[uberamd]

In other news, today is Thursday.

Seriously? Didn't we already have this discussion weeks ago?

[madmaxmedia]

Battery and heat may not be that bad since it should be using the hardware decoder for playback. I don't remember if resolution makes a difference when comparing playback of lower-res files (say 320x240 vs. 640x480.)

Anyways, this will be easy to test for 3GS owners, most all file transfer type apps can play videos.

The problem is getting that HD video feed out through the dock connector, not sure what software or hardware limitations are there.

[P-Worm]

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.

You're using the Zune as an example of what Apple should do with the iPod/iPhone? How did that squirting thing work out?

P-Worm

[Hattig]

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.

iPhone OS 3.1, released one week before the Zune HD, with HD video playback supported through a new iPhone/iPod HD Dock.

Oh, and here's the new iPod Touches, with that support as well.

$199, $269, $399. Yeah, cheaper too.

[Illusion986]

How long it took to get mms? oh wait still dont have it! well kind of dont have it, capable of it but still cant use it..... So HD output would be great but it might take a while :) .

[Tilpots]

Great, now a hand held phone is more useful than the AppleTV.:rolleyes:

[Matariel]

The hardware is quite probably capable of 720p playback, but I'm highly dubious of the 1080p claim, especially using h.264.

The ZuneHD has dedicated hardware for video decoding in the nVidia Tegra chip, but the iPhone3GS doesnt so unless Apple somehow takes advantage of the PowerVR core, using some kind of OpenGL shader to decode the video, they're forced to decode using brute force on the ARM core.

[IBradMac]

Apple has elected not to enable it at this time.

Shocker.:rolleyes:

[audioteknika]

And the point of 1080p on a 3" screen is ?
Oh yes.. video playback on a 52" plasma..

Don't forget the $50 adapter..

[MrCrowbar]

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.

I suppose no one really uses the Zune's sharing feature, nor would anyone watch an HD movie from it. I mean, you can't enjoy it much on the small device itself, you wanna watch in on a big TV or at least a laptop. Sources for commercial HD stuff are BluRay and downloads, none of which the iPhone can really handle. Either the network is too slow or the battery will be empty after a few GBs. You're just better of hooking up your computer to the TV.

I guess it makes sense for short home movies... you know, get the movie clips on the mac, drag them onto iTunes and watch it on the iPhone without conversion.

[MadCow42]

Forget video playback - I want an iPhone that can drive a standard computer projector, and run KeyNote. I'd love to travel with just a phone for giving customer and event presentations!

1280x800 @ 10fps is more than enough for that kind of stuff - and storage is a non-issue (unless you embed video, of course). That's a killer-app that will get Apple into more corporate environments.

MadCow.

[svndmvn]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=739619&page=1

[MrCrowbar]

Great, now a hand held phone is more useful than the AppleTV.:rolleyes:

True words. The Mac Mini is a fine Media Center though. Big external drive(s) for storage and a big TV and you're good to go.

[VirtualRain]

The hardware is quite probably capable of 720p playback, but I'm highly dubious of the 1080p claim, especially using h.264.


There's just no way the iPhone is playing back 1080p... smoothly. No way. My Macbook Air can't playback 1080p.

[JAT]

Add HD to the iPhone, don't add HD to the iPhone. Meh. I'd rather bring an SD card and pop it into someone's BD player.

Tell Apple to worry about BD in a computer first.

[Fuchal]

There's just no way the iPhone is playing back 1080p... smoothly. No way. My Macbook Air can't playback 1080p.

If you had a 9400M in your Air it would play back perfectly as Apple decodes h.264 in hardware when a 9400M is present. Would assume the iPhone has hardware decoding as well.

[Hattig]

The ZuneHD has dedicated hardware for video decoding in the nVidia Tegra chip, but the iPhone3GS doesnt.

The iPhone has video decode acceleration alongside the integrated graphics, just like the Tegra. It's just not hyped as much. In addition the ARM Cortex A8 has a SIMD unit called Neon that could be utilised, but I think 30mbps H.264 really would require dedicated hardware.

[nutts]

How long it took to get mms? oh wait still dont have it! well kind of dont have it, capable of it but still cant use it..... So HD output would be great but it might take a while :) .

I have it, and have been using it every day since OS3.0 came out; it's great!

Oh, you mean *you* don't have it in *your* country. Nothing to do with Apple I guess then, it must be your cellular provider.

So the point of your whiney post is? It might take a while for sure, but it's a little different to MMS don't you think; can't see that HD video output has much to do with cellular networks, unless you're streaming it (which is not under discussion here). :rolleyes:

[Ted13]

Form the article:Of course, the large file sizes involved in high-definition, high bitrate video would restrict videos to relatively short clips given current iPhone storage capacities.

Huh? 720P H.264 video is 1.5GB per hour on iTunes. You could store 20 hours of that on a 32GB iPhone. Even at Blu-ray bit rates for 1080P video (huge overkill) you could fit a 2 hour movie on there. Not a "short clip" in my book.

[zombitronic]

You're using the Zune as an example of what Apple should do with the iPod/iPhone? How did that squirting thing work out?

I suppose no one really uses the Zune's sharing feature, nor would anyone watch an HD movie from it. I mean, you can't enjoy it much on the small device itself, you wanna watch in on a big TV or at least a laptop. Sources for commercial HD stuff are BluRay and downloads, none of which the iPhone can really handle. Either the network is too slow or the battery will be empty after a few GBs. You're just better of hooking up your computer to the TV.

I guess it makes sense for short home movies... you know, get the movie clips on the mac, drag them onto iTunes and watch it on the iPhone without conversion.

I think you guys might be missing the point. The Zune HD can play HD video while connected to a HDTV. No one is suggesting watching 720p video on a mobile device.

And the point of 1080p on a 3" screen is ?
Oh yes.. video playback on a 52" plasma..

Don't forget the $50 adapter..

At that point, it would be more like a portable hard drive. Don't tell me it wouldn't be sweet to load up an HD movie on your iPhone, take it to your friend's house, plug it in, and watch the movie in all its HD glory.

[Xavier]

All I have to say is LOL to the Zune HD.

[doctoree]

The hardware is capable of RECORDING 720p (from the camera) and playback is always easier then recording. So it should be able to playback at least 720p too

[Michael73]

It's not hard to imagine that the next version of the iPhone will have a 5MP camera (with flash and a good digital zoom) and be capable of shooting 720p HD video and maybe an LED display. Assuming a storage bump to 64GB, you could probably shoot a fair amount of HD footage. Those kinds of features along with a chipset capable of 4G would be killer.

[jbellanca]

This ties into something I discovered by accident this morning. I wanted to watch a 720p HD Revision3 podcast on my iPhone that I had downloaded to my Mac in HD. Of course, it wouldn't sync over to the iPhone. BUT - Using the iTunes app on the iPhone I COULD download and play it, so apparently the phone DOES support at least 720p, it's just not easy to get it onto the device. Didn't try outputting to a TV though.

[Matariel]

The iPhone has video decode acceleration alongside the integrated graphics, just like the Tegra. It's just not hyped as much. In addition the ARM Cortex A8 has a SIMD unit called Neon that could be utilised, but I think 30mbps H.264 really would require dedicated hardware.

Even the PowerVR site itself doesnt say what resolutions and framerates the PowerVR VXD module supports, so I'm guessing it isnt exceptional in that area. If it supported 1080p, they'd be shouting it from the hilltops.

The Tegra in the ZuneHD is pretty much the bleeding edge of system-in-a-chip mobile designs, the iPhone3GS is using last year's technology, but with a speed bump and GPU update.

[Bokito]

It was already a fact that the iPhone 3GS could playback 720p30 video, but 1080p is new for me. It seems like the iPhone can't playback 1080p when using battery power. You would literally burn your iPhone. USB power will just be enough likely, but before Apple unlocks the iPhone to support higher resolutions than 640*480 they will likely announce a new kind of dock that should have a DVI or DisplayPort out.

[Scottsdale]

My Macbook Air can't playback 1080p.

There u go, your MBA is inferior to your iPhone. Admiting that is half the battle. The original MBA has always been just a novelty that fits in an envelope. Too bad to be an early adopter of an Apple product.

On the other hand, a rev B/C MBA with Nvidia GPU, Penryn CPU, SATA-II drive controller, and Mini Display Port is quite capable of 1080 playback. Really capable of all the things the original wasn't capable of.

I definitely believe the iPhone 3GS is just as capable as a Zune, as Apple isn't going to let Microsoft win at anything. Surely had prepared for this and we are just a software update and $79 cable away...

[Matariel]

The hardware is capable of RECORDING 720p (from the camera) and playback is always easier then recording. So it should be able to playback at least 720p too

Source?

[Hattig]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=739619&page=1

That thread makes me sad, so many blockheaded people who can't see the point being made - that is the device can play back video far exceeding the advertised specifications (advertised: 1.5Mbps, actual: 8Mbps, this thread possibly 30Mbps), which will mean future firmware feature enhancements (HD dock for 3GS-level devices, etc, seems likely if Apple's component output can handle HD in addition to the advertised SD output). Regardless, the hardware is willing but the software is, err, soft.

[zombitronic]

Surely had prepared for this and we are just a software update and $79 cable away...


$49.00 cable. (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB128LL/B)

[Hattig]

The Tegra in the ZuneHD is pretty much the bleeding edge of system-in-a-chip mobile designs, the iPhone3GS is using last year's technology, but with a speed bump and GPU update.

The Tegra is last year's technology attached to some NVIDIA graphics/video technology. It's hyped a lot. It isn't all that, really. The CPU is far weaker, and there may be two of them but is that SMP or simple co-processors? The graphics are probably the strong point, it can probably beat out the 3GS in 3D easily, and maybe decode video at a higher bitrate, but in the end there will be a power consumption cost.

[Ninja Dom]

The hardware is capable of RECORDING 720p (from the camera) and playback is always easier then recording. So it should be able to playback at least 720p too

I don't think it can RECORD 720p.

3GS can record 640 x 480 which is closer to 480p.

[zombitronic]

You're using the Zune as an example of what Apple should do with the iPod/iPhone? How did that squirting thing work out?

All I have to say is LOL to the Zune HD.

I'm hardly a Zune fan, but you have to recognize that right now the Zune HD advertises a (useful) feature that the iPod/iPhone does not match.

[royler]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes. they probly wont enable it because they dont want people to think that the iphone is bad at playing video. you wouldnt get much better video quality than a properly made anmorphic video file and the "HD" videos would take up waaay more space.

[libertyforall]

Yea, I am interested in outputting ALL of the iPhone apps including Springboard to a TV or monitor -- this functionality is LONG overdue... :apple:

[peterdevries]

I'm hardly a Zune fan, but you have to recognize that right now the Zune HD advertises a (useful) feature that the iPod/iPhone does not match.

Exactly, at this point we cannot use it, so who's having the last laugh? Definitely not us.

I wouldn't be surprised if after the event in a few weeks there still won't be full HD playback, OR a dock with HDMI output for that matter.

[Matariel]

The Tegra is last year's technology attached to some NVIDIA graphics/video technology. It's hyped a lot. It isn't all that, really. The CPU is far weaker, and there may be two of them but is that SMP or simple co-processors? The graphics are probably the strong point, it can probably beat out the 3GS in 3D easily, and maybe decode video at a higher bitrate, but in the end there will be a power consumption cost.

Tegra uses an ARM11 core, which is what powered the iPhone3G, but so many of its functions have been moved off the central core to custom nVidia components, it's not nearly as important.
The iPhone3GS uses the newer Cortex-A8 ARM core, which is admittedly more advanced, and a newer PowerVR SGX gpu (I dont know if this is integrated onto the ARM die, or a seperate component.), so it *is* fast, but in terms of an all-in-one device (graphics/video/multimedia/etc), I'd put my money on the Tegra.

Just watch a few videos of some of the Tegra demo UIs that nVidia knocked up, they're as smooth as silk compared to even the iPhone3GS, with multitasking and even HD video decoding from within 3d UI elements.

[jbellanca]

Source?

I don't think it can RECORD 720p.

3GS can record 640 x 480 which is closer to 480p.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/iphone-3g-s-gets-the-quick-and-dirty-tear-apart-treatment-alrea/

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=729250

[Matariel]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes. they probly wont enable it because they dont want people to think that the iphone is bad at playing video. you wouldnt get much better video quality than a properly made anmorphic video file and the "HD" videos would take up waaay more space.

Honestly, out of all the claims made about this, its the 30mbps claim that sounds the most bogus to me.
The flash chips in the iPhone wouldnt be capable of that kind of performance, in such a small device they'd go for the cheapest they could get away with. I havent seen any of the iPhone strip down photos, but Im guessing they're some kind of Samsung flash chip, and not bleeding edge, performance wise.

Im starting to think this whole thing has come out of the PowerVR SGX spec sheet which says its capable of Blu-Ray profile 1.1 (im guessing the secondary processor side of it), not any kind of practical application.

[skate71290]

There's just no way the iPhone is playing back 1080p... smoothly. No way. My Macbook Air can't playback 1080p.

thank you!!! mine can't even play 720p (first MBA model) and it struggles to keep up with **** def (standard) when im running safari alongside it... soooo frustrating considering what they cost :( x :mad:

[Bokito]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes.

30 Mbps is almost 3 times the bitrate Apple is using for it's trailers on their trailer website (pretty nice quality there) and way more than their 720p iTunes Store videos that run at around 8 Mbps if I'm right? The iTunes store videos are encoded with settings that don't need really much CPU-power, but this is a loss for the quality and a gain of bitrate. Blu-ray is using 32 Mbps average. With optimized settings and the latest encoders 30 Mbps should in most cases equal Blu-ray.

[Lesser Evets]

So the hardware and software can play video at the size of a 10" screen?

Very good. Glad to know that. Thank you.

[jbellanca]

Honestly, out of all the claims made about this, its the 30mbps claim that sounds the most bogus to me.
The flash chips in the iPhone wouldnt be capable of that kind of performance, in such a small device they'd go for the cheapest they could get away with. I havent seen any of the iPhone strip down photos, but Im guessing they're some kind of Samsung flash chip, and not bleeding edge, performance wise.

Im starting to think this whole thing has come out of the PowerVR SGX spec sheet which says its capable of Blu-Ray profile 1.1 (im guessing the secondary processor side of it), not any kind of practical application.

The people on this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=739619&page=4) have tested various files. See Post #78 in particular.

[doctoree]

Source?

here you are:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/19/apples_iphone_3g_s_sports_chip_with_720p_hd_video_capabilities.html

It's the only reason I didn't buy an iPhone yet.

[ViViDboarder]

It's pretty funny listening to all the fanbois here dissing the ZuneHD. I love my iPhone but the ZuneHD looks amazing. OLED screen, high resolution... Yea. I like. Wish it ran iPhone OS. :P

[LagunaSol]

Don't tell me it wouldn't be sweet to load up an HD movie on your iPhone, take it to your friend's house, plug it in, and watch the movie in all its HD glory.

In theory, yes. In reality: are you really going to haul your Zune HD, your dock, and your cables to your buddy's house, crawl around the back of his H/T receiver to connect it, just to watch a movie?

99% of consumers probably will not.

This continues to be a problem with Microsoft: hyping their products based on features consumers ultimately just don't care about (HD radio, squirting songs, etc.).

And OLED screens? How many consumers know anything about those? Sure, it's a great improvement, but is it a key feature worth shouting from the rooftops? No. Put an iPod touch with a camera and a bajillion available apps next to a Zune HD with an OLED screen and HD radio (and HD video output via a must-be-purchased-separately dock) next to each other, offer them for the same price, and the consumer is going to pick the iPod touch almost every single time (if brand bias is not a factor).

[Compile 'em all]

Form the article:

Huh? 720P H.264 video is 1.5GB per hour on iTunes. You could store 20 hours of that on a 32GB iPhone. Even at Blu-ray bit rates for 1080P video (huge overkill) you could fit a 2 hour movie on there. Not a "short clip" in my book.

yeah, I was reading the OP and I was like WTF!

[Hattig]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes. they probly wont enable it because they dont want people to think that the iphone is bad at playing video. you wouldnt get much better video quality than a properly made anmorphic video file and the "HD" videos would take up waaay more space.

Erm, BluRay is around 40Mbps, most movies average 30Mbps.

iTunes is what? 8Mbps max? 5Mbps?

What are you saying?

[LagunaSol]

I love my iPhone but the ZuneHD looks amazing.

It looks amazing to technogeeks who look at specs, particularly to technogeeks with a strong Apple aversion ("TEGRA FTW! APPLE SUXORS! ZUUUUUNE!!!"), but to the consumer? Highly doubtful.

I've been hearing about how "amazing" the Zune is compared to the iPod since, well, that brown and green one was first released. That amazement failed to turn into actual sales, unfortunately.

Speaking of, didn't MS say the new wave of consumer electronics was brown? How did that turn out?

[Hattig]

Tegra uses an ARM11 core, which is what powered the iPhone3G, but so many of its functions have been moved off the central core to custom nVidia components, it's not nearly as important.

You do realise that is how the iPhone SoC has worked, even since the first version? The current version has the A8, the Neon, the graphics, and the video acceleration as separate IP cores inside, then there is all the other stuff.

It's just that the NVIDIA controlled portions on the Tegra (the graphics) are likely to be more powerful. But that will come at a cost - power consumption.

Don't get me wrong, Tegra is going to be a very decent system chip, and maybe having two ARM11s will make up for not being an A8. But it isn't massively more advanced than the Samsung SoC in the iPhone 3GS. It probably costs a lot more though.

[3goldens]

So What so the fraking unit can run even hotter than it does now.

I would prefer a cooler running phone than hd on a screen this size!

[Hattig]

It's pretty funny listening to all the fanbois here dissing the ZuneHD. I love my iPhone but the ZuneHD looks amazing. OLED screen, high resolution... Yea. I like. Wish it ran iPhone OS. :P

High Resolution? It's a 480x272 display. It's only that they announced the HD Dock (at extra cost) for HDMI output, and I believe some HD Radio features, that it's HD.

However it should keep Apple on its toes, because it's a major step forward for Microsoft. And yes, the OLED display will look brilliant.

[Jose Fuertes S]

maybe they will output 720p-1080p through firmware update, like they did with bluetooth on ipod touch.

[iphones4evry1]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/20/iphone-3gs-capable-of-high-definition-video-playback/)

The poster conducted a series of tests of increasing resolution and bitrate to the iPhone 3GS...

That explains this:
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/18/123054-exploded-iphone.jpg

[peterdevries]

30 Mbps is almost 3 times the bitrate Apple is using for it's trailers on their trailer website (pretty nice quality there) and way more than their 720p iTunes Store videos that run at around 8 Mbps if I'm right? The iTunes store videos are encoded with settings that don't need really much CPU-power, but this is a loss for the quality and a gain of bitrate. Blu-ray is using 32 Mbps average. With optimized settings and the latest encoders 30 Mbps should in most cases equal Blu-ray.

Off topic on (sorry)

Bokito? You must be dutch right?

Off topic off (again sorry)

[The General]

The screen is 480x320. Why waste the storage space and battery life to play more pixels than the LCD is capable of displaying?

[itsmenyc]

My girlfriend and I both bought Zunes and I squirted her and now she's pregnant... Damn Zune, I hate you!

[DMann]

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.HD, at 720p, which is not quite 1080p. Not such a 'killer' feature after all.

It's not hard to imagine that the next version of the iPhone will have a 5MP camera (with flash and a good digital zoom) and be capable of shooting 720p HD video and maybe an LED display. Assuming a storage bump to 64GB, you could probably shoot a fair amount of HD footage. Those kinds of features along with a chipset capable of 4G would be killer.A likely upgrade, in less than 10 months from now!

I'm hardly a Zune fan, but you have to recognize that right now the Zune HD advertises a (useful) feature that the iPod/iPhone does not match.Not until the Zune HD(720p) is actually released, which isn't until October. Until then, the prospect of 1080p rules.

In theory, yes. In reality: are you really going to haul your Zune HD, your dock, and your cables to your buddy's house, crawl around the back of his H/T receiver to connect it, just to watch a movie?

99% of consumers probably will not.

This continues to be a problem with Microsoft: hyping their products based on features consumers ultimately just don't care about (HD radio, squirting songs, etc.).

And OLED screens? How many consumers know anything about those? Sure, it's a great improvement, but is it a key feature worth shouting from the rooftops? No. Put an iPod touch with a camera and a bajillion available apps next to a Zune HD with an OLED screen and HD radio (and HD video output via a must-be-purchased-separately dock) next to each other, offer them for the same price, and the consumer is going to pick the iPod touch almost every single time (if brand bias is not a factor).
True, a radio tuner is hyped as a significant feature, as was 'The Social,' squirting, etc. OLED screens are great indoors, but outdoors, they become completely washed out without a backlight and reflective pixels, and colors degrade quickly. Perhaps they'll tack on a laser pointer, and a shoe horn, before it's released.

All I have to say is LOL to the Zune HD.Steve Ballmer ain't laughing right now, that's for sure!

You're using the Zune as an example of what Apple should do with the iPod/iPhone? How did that squirting thing work out?

P-Worm

http://homepage.mac.com/ndaniels/zune_squirt.gif
Zune Shots

[t0mat0]

Media Out Interface. Seeing as Apple TV SKU's are likely getting a refresh, it's posssible that we'll see the iPhone being able to do video playback via a TV/Screen. Would be useful in gaming too...

From back in May:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7620756&postcount=181

http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/5/apple-media-out-interface.jpg

[Saladinos]

I'm hardly a Zune fan, but you have to recognize that right now the Zune HD advertises a (useful) feature that the iPod/iPhone does not match.

It does indeed, but I don't think HD output is it; I think the OLED screen is the biggest feature.

People underestimate the power of the iPhone. It's certainly possible that the 3GS can output 720p (consider as well that the OS doesn't support multitasking, so the hardware isn't doing much else other than video decoding). The new iPod touch will probably have higher clocked hardware than the 3GS, so I'm almost positive it could output 720p.

The hardware isn't the problem; the problem is that it simply isn't a killer feature. Screen output has always been a useful additional feature, but it's never been a killer feature. Simply bumping a mediocre feature up to HD doesn't make it worthy of being the fulcrum of the product.

[TMay]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes. they probly wont enable it because they dont want people to think that the iphone is bad at playing video. you wouldnt get much better video quality than a properly made anmorphic video file and the "HD" videos would take up waaay more space.

30 Mbps is quite usable and better than DVD mpeg2. My Panasonic HD cam (flash storage) maxes out at 17mbps AVCHD 1080 30P (the High profile is 21 mbps) into an SDHC flash card. AVCHD is one of two standards for BD HD encoding (VC-1) is the other. I think the current BD 1080P standard tops out at 50 mbps or so.

What these test demonstrate is that it is possible to decode 1080p with the current 3GS hardware, but it may have practical limitations at this time.

[antic]

Anyone buying apple gear must be aware that historically they have always crippled there hardware, thats how they get you to buy the newer model each year. If they give you everything up front now you woudn't need to.

Having just purchased a 3GS I can testify to this. The phone itself is excelent but is woefully let down by the 3 mpx camera which is appaling in dark conditions

If the processors inside the 3GS is capable of handling/displaying 720p & 1080p there is no excuse that this couldnt be done to a HD TV via a dock connector, it would be the perfect replacement for the apple TV.

The only reason why they won't do it, is that it will cripple the sales of the apple TV and what ever else they have coming along.

[ryanw]

Not so much when Microsoft is using HD playback as a huge marketing point for their new Zune.

Yah, i don't understand how the HD buzz word on a handheld device with 1/8th the resolution as standard HD makes any sense. All it would do is take more disk usage, more cpu, more battery, more heat, etc. to watch something rather than watch it in a format build for the device.

[beneditor]

Not sure this is really news to many people. I've got plenty of HD h.264 files on my iDisk for client approval. As soon as the iDisk app came out, I tried playing a load of them - all played fine, much to my suprise.

Download the iDisk app, upload some files to it and give it a go - it's hardly the work of some leet haxzors in China to prove this does/doesn't work. And, this is with Apple's hardware AND software.

It's also a neat way of storing videos off the phone for playback - it doesn't need a wifi connection to work AFAIK....

[RMo]

This should quiet down all the people who want Blu-Ray on the iPhone. :D

[kimble3]

Obviously, playing 720p/1080p on the iPhone/Touch is silly. You wouldn't be able to really see any difference on the small screen and it would kill your battery life. Plus, 1080p content would be huge!

But does the iPhone/Touch have enough power to act as an Apple TV if it is plugged into a dock that is connected to your TV? They are both OS X based so the software side shouldn't be any problem. Apple could easily sell a new dock that has an HDMI connector and an infrared port so the Apple Remote can control it. Battery life wouldn't be a problem if it was docked. Also, the iPhone/Touch even has WiFi so you can sync content with your computer in another room. With one simple accessory, Apple could turn the 10's of millions of iPhone/Touches already sold into Apple TV's!

[gabefung]

*deleted*

[dr. shdw]

at 30 Mbps the quality of the HD video would be dramatically lower than the quality of a bluray or even the HD video files you get on iTunes. they probly wont enable it because they dont want people to think that the iphone is bad at playing video. you wouldnt get much better video quality than a properly made anmorphic video file and the "HD" videos would take up waaay more space.

You have no idea what you're talking about. 30 Mbp/s rips at 1080p equates to some pretty good image quality.

[aristotle]

It does indeed, but I don't think HD output is it; I think the OLED screen is the biggest feature.

Have you considered the problems with OLED technology such as a colour shift if the display is exposed to direct sunlight whether it is on or not and the shorter lifespan compared to LCD displays?
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/09/0112234

The display in the Zune HD is OLED but it is also lower resolution than the iPhone display.

[PeterQVenkman]

All I have to say is LOL to the Zune HD.

Right now, the Zune HD has the feature built in. The iPod Touch/iPhone doesn't (or at least it's crippled).

I'm hoping for a refresh to the touch in September that gives HD playback through video out.

[PeterQVenkman]

The screen is 480x320. Why waste the storage space and battery life to play more pixels than the LCD is capable of displaying?

So you can output that video in HD on a projector/lcd/plasma when presenting a video or animation to more than one person.

It's not going to be a killer feature for everyone, but for artists and animators- having an HD version of your reel on your Touch would be brilliant.

I want it for that purpose. I could care less if Joe Sixpack shows HD movies of his kids.

[LagunaSol]

I could care less if Joe Sixpack shows HD movies of his kids.

Or perhaps you couldn't care less. ;)

[pizzacake]

Makes sense to cripple the software, else people would whine about the capacities. Still, 1080p at 30 Mbps is rather impressive.

I'm still waiting for a reasonably prices camcorder that does 720p without being more blurry than a normal standard definition camcorder and doesn't skip frames when recording. :(


The Kodak Zi 8 might be the answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2fXbvTeDXY

[Macminiintel]

How long it took to get mms? oh wait still dont have it! well kind of dont have it, capable of it but still cant use it..... So HD output would be great but it might take a while :) .

I have it on my iPhone here in the UK we got it before US iPhone users, I think AT&T are having to manually enable accounts or something, We've had MMS since the 3.0 update came out lol

[twoodcc]

well now this would be great, especially to output to an hd tv.

[Macminiintel]

ha ha its so sneaky of Apple to add HD ability on the 3GS lol, it will take away the limelight from the Zune HD when launched :D.

Seriously though why do Microsoft even bother??, the iPod has been an established name since 2001, Zune hasn't even put a dent in the MP3 market & hasn't for the past 3 years, Apple timed it right, there wasn't a single competitor in 2001 that was good enough, Making a great market for Apple, Microsoft give up you've had it lol

[zedsdead]

I don't care so much for HD output so much as HD video recording via the camera, which the 3gs is capable of.

[DMann]

ha ha its so sneaky of Apple to add HD ability on the 3GS lol, it will take away the limelight from the Zune HD when launched :D.

Seriously though why do Microsoft even bother??, the iPod has been an established name since 2001, Zune hasn't even put a dent in the MP3 market Sony probably sell more walkman players & stuffWhat remains most entertaining, is that MS strategically announced the Zune HD on May 26, a time during which they knew that the iPhone 3GS would be in mass production. Perhaps they figured they could beat the iPhone to the punch with a "killer" feature, one which would be too late to be built into the iPhone, and that HD, as "The Social," would distinguish the Zune as being the first small media player to sport HD(720p). Little did they know....

[Bjohnson33]

iPhone OS 3.1, released one week before the Zune HD, with HD video playback supported through a new iPhone/iPod HD Dock.

Oh, and here's the new iPod Touches, with that support as well.

$199, $269, $399. Yeah, cheaper too.

We can only hope! That would be pretty sweet.

[carmenodie]

Semantics! Please!
HD playback on them small screens ain't nothing special as you really wouldn't notice anything anyway. The specs on the iphone screen are nice and the pictures are crisp. Now, as for them fools over at MS touting HD playback on the new Zune HD. Take it with a grain of salt. You have to consider battery life, file size and heat. That tegra chip would be working overtime.
IMHO, as always.

[iphones4evry1]

Media Out Interface. Seeing as Apple TV SKU's are likely getting a refresh, it's posssible that we'll see the iPhone being able to do video playback via a TV/Screen. Would be useful in gaming too...

From back in May:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7620756&postcount=181

http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/5/apple-media-out-interface.jpg

(read with a mid evil accent, think "The Gladiator")
First you could control your iTunes with your iPhone!
Now you can control your television with your iPhone!
Before long ... YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR IPHONE!!!! :apple:

[RangerXML]

wow, really.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431364

[Burnsey]

HD playback would be very cool, but I doubt the iPhone or the upcoming Touch will accept .mkv formats.

[RangerXML]

HD playback would be very cool, but I doubt the iPhone or the upcoming Touch will accept .mkv formats.

You do understand that h.264 can be associated with many extensions, including in this case .mp4? An extension associates a format with a program (in this case .mp4 to itunes) or can be associated with a format (h.264 to .mkv). Just like you can rename a .ogg to .mp3 and Winamp will still play it, but iTunes won't.

[SthrnCmfrtr]

You do understand that h.264 can be associated with many extensions, including in this case .mp4? An extension associates a format with a program (in this case .mp4 to itunes) or can be associated with a format (h.264 to .mkv). Just like you can rename a .ogg to .mp3 and Winamp will still play it, but iTunes won't.

What are you babbling about?

[RangerXML]

What are you babbling about?

He was referring to HD being h.264, which people associate with the .mkv extension, which is not true.

[SeaFox]

What are you babbling about?
He doesn't know what he's talking about. He isn't aware of the difference between a codec and a container format.

Changing a file's extension only changes the association if the OS has each filetype associated to a different program. If the container format is MKV, changing the extension from .mkv to .mp4 doesn't suddenly make the file an MPEG 4 container and compatible with programs that cannot parse MKV files. The Winamp example only works because Winamp can understand both mp3 and ogg formats, which aren't even the same codec.

h264 is a codec for a video stream, and generally has to be contained in an actual container file to be played by applications. You can even have h264 in a AVI file if you want, doesn't mean changing the extension to .mp4 will allow you to play it in iTunes.

[Ltd]

Where did this 1980 x 1080 video come from? :confused:

1080p/i is 1920 (NOT 1980) x 1080.

Just looked at the original Chinese post and it correctly states 1920. iLounge must have mistyped.

Also nowhere in the original post does it say 30fps for 1080p. The only frame rate reference is for 1440x1080p at 25fps.


Sorry, I'm a video editor so little things like frame size and rate I notice. :p

[mikeb13]

I added some HD trailers and movies to FileAid. Video plays fine but I get no audio.

Trailers include GI Joe, Sherlock Holmes, and Toy Story 3.

Movie is My Bloody Valentine.

[puercaeli]

I sent news about this many months ago...
Sent the video and everything... they could have cited their website rather than iLounge for it! (Funny how it has to be 'Chinese' source before it becomes interesting....)

Besides this it is good to see people a lot of people getting the point of HD playback. For more details on this issue:

http://puercaeli.tistory.com/351

http://www.touchmyapps.com/2009/07/13/hi-def-video-playback-on-the-iphone-3gs-is-real/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbkclSYnzxc&feature=player_embedded

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=739619&highlight=iPhone+HD

To point few issues:
-without the cable, that is on screen 640x480 video to HD video does not make much difference(if the video is encoded well)
-Penalty in battery is not too bad. I calculated approx 5hrs playback
-1080 resoultion plays well depending on the bitrate obviously...
-current no 3GS Apple Mobile OS platofrom plays upto DVD resolution only even with the bypass
-iTunes has arbitary limitation on the file size; hence not allowing these HD files to come through via iTunes syncing

[Illusion986]

I have it, and have been using it every day since OS3.0 came out; it's great!

Oh, you mean *you* don't have it in *your* country. Nothing to do with Apple I guess then, it must be your cellular provider.

So the point of your whiney post is? It might take a while for sure, but it's a little different to MMS don't you think; can't see that HD video output has much to do with cellular networks, unless you're streaming it (which is not under discussion here). :rolleyes:

Yep, pretty much! Thats why i sed its capable of it but cant use it, and no its not whiney post, sure didnt mean it to sound like one. But while MMS is different from HD playback its still a feature, and while apple does make very advanced phone they do leave some simple features out. And while cellular networks and streaming data is not discussed here by *you* i will fell free to discuss it if i like.

[MagicWok]

Great, now a hand held phone is more useful than the AppleTV.:rolleyes:

AppleTV was never usefull, at least in my eyes anyway :rolleyes:

Would be interesting to see how hot the 3GS gets and how long it takes to explode, or something over-the-top and dramatic to that effect.

[diekehle]

If the iphone 3gs can handle a HD, what does a rumored iTablet with 10" ?

[tbrinkma]

The phone itself is excelent but is woefully let down by the 3 mpx camera which is appaling in dark conditions.

The 3mpx camera being appalling in dark conditions is a matter of physics.
For any given camera sensor size, higher resolution means smaller photo-sites (those bits of sensor that capture light and are considered a 'pixel' in the final image.
A smaller photo-site is less sensitive than a larger one.

Given those two things, a higher-resolution camera will often times produce a worse picture than a lower-resolution one, simply because the high-res sensor can't capture enough light to properly 'expose', so you get lots of noise.

This, combined with lens quality, is why a 6MP DSLR produces a better image than a 12MP point-and-shoot.

If you were really concerned about image quality, or performance in low-light situations, you'd want Apple to stay with the current resolution while sensor tech improves the sensitivity of the photo-sites. Bumping up the resolution without those improvements will result in *worse* performance in low-light conditions.

[tbrinkma]

Or perhaps you couldn't care less. ;)

The two phrases actually have exactly the same meaning. It's all in the final (unspoken) portion.

I could care less, but it would take too much effort.
I couldn't care less, even if I wanted to.

[Cynicalone]

I loaded some 1080P trailers on my iDisk and they played back just fine but it takes forever to load a file. There is a real limit to how much you can do with this since it has to be less than 100MB to use the iDisk app.

[SthrnCmfrtr]

He was referring to HD being h.264, which people associate with the .mkv extension, which is not true.

I think you were correcting someone who was lamenting Apple's lack of support for the Matroska container (which many people prefer due to its superior support for chapters, subtitles, and different audio formats). I'm sure he was aware that Apple hardware and software supports the H264 codec. He might simply be irritated that whenever he converts an mkv file to a mp4 file, he loses the nifty AC-3 sound and subtitles.

[WhoPhD]

I'm still waiting for a reasonably prices camcorder that does 720p without being more blurry than a normal standard definition camcorder and doesn't skip frames when recording. :(

I've been using (and abusing) a Sanyo HD1000 since 2007, in all sorts of outdoor conditions, at 720p60. Their new models probably do even better.

I paid only $500 for it back then, $750 if you count the lenses and SD cards.

CK.

[speakerwizard]

So, I have tried this a bit today, and yes it does work, I'm getting great playback of my apple tv encoded 720p vids (about 5mbs) and tried a 1080p which was around 8mbs which was also fine, I then tried a 1080p apple trailer at 10mbs which played back smoothly but crashed the audio drivers and needed restarting so I'm pretty impressed, no need to re-encode my vids just take away, just use file / disk aid haha may have to do a battery usage test next

[DELLsFan]

My girlfriend and I both bought Zunes and I squirted her and now she's pregnant... Damn Zune, I hate you!

LOL :D

[damesJ]

I have a 720p movie file thats an mp4 (h.264 codec) that plays in itunes. I put it on my iphone 3gs using disk aid and tried hooking it up to my tv.. however there is sound but no picture. any ideas?

[TripHop]

Played silently then none of my compliant videos nor music would play sound until I reset the 3GS. Didn't test on iPod Touch yet. But thanks to this article I discovered FileAid and DiskAid and they have together opened up a whole new world of possabilities. Now I can store all sorts of PDFs, jpegs, and vids out of spec somewhere besides inside the iTunes section. I'm thrilled to be able to carry manuals for hardware and software and album booklets in PDF form that don't require the net to read them. :)

I imagine the FileAid developers will figure out how to get sound working from these files inside their app without killing all sound in a few more weeks.