World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

[SilentPanda]

Here's a directish link to the expansion video so you get a few less spoilers if you haven't looked into it otherwise yet:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/media/?autoplay=true#video

I want to hate it. I want to stay away. Why do I keep getting pulled back in!? :eek:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/

I'm pretty stoked about them altering the main world. Of course I still have some questions but I'm waiting around to see what answers appear out of Blizzcon...

[borcanm]

Dude I just saw it now. It came out today. As a wow fan this is insane. Its probably gonna take a year at least untill we see it, but its still awosome.

[Huntn]

I think this shows that Blizzard is a most talented company and WoW is unsurpassed among it's MMO piers. Call me a fanboy, I don't care. :)

New cap L85, new races: Goblin, Worgen; classic areas of Azeroth are transformed; Heroic Dead Mines; new race/class combos? Does that mean classes can be crossed, or just new/established classes made available to races?

[aznguyen316]

I think this shows that Blizzard is a most talented company and WoW is unsurpassed among it's MMO piers. Call me a fanboy, I don't care. :)

New cap L85, new races: Goblin, Worgen; classic areas of Azeroth are transformed; Heroic Dead Mines; new race/class combos? Does that mean classes can be crossed, or just new/established classes made available to races?

previous classes that were unavailable to races are now available, not all, but more now.. such as on horde only Blood Elfs could be pallys. Now more races can be although I don't remember what.

[Cabbit]

Spell power has been replaced with intellect. So what is the point it seems that 90% of the changes are to dumb down the game even more and 10% are on new content and improved graphics.

[aznguyen316]

well they are adding those different stats into a talent tree or something like that.. but I'm all for "dumbing" down those confusing aspects..

[Bimmi]

Old wine in new skins. Looks great, but it's still the same game. I was pretty bored with Wrath, which seemed like a steady diet of leftovers the whole way through, and this looks like it's going to be more of the usual beneath all the flash. Really, how could it not be?

WoW is a great game, no question, but every game has its day. Subscriptions reportedly fell off a cliff after Wrath was released, and with Cataclysm, I'd say the shark has been decisively jumped and there's nowhere to go but down.

I'm sure lots of people will play and enjoy it, but I won't be one of them.

[Cabbit]

Old wine in new skins. Looks great, but it's still the same game. I was pretty bored with Wrath, which seemed like a steady diet of leftovers the whole way through, and this looks like it's going to be more of the usual beneath all the flash. Really, how could it not be?

WoW is a great game, no question, but every game has its day. Subscriptions reportedly fell off a cliff after Wrath was released, and with Cataclysm, I'd say the shark has been decisively jumped and there's nowhere to go but down.

I'm sure lots of people will play and enjoy it, but I won't be one of them.

With Wrath we have lost just about all the old time raiders in the guild. We kinda still want everything to be a challenge and worth earning. Even PVP now any twat that can run a heroic and run around in full deadly(un enchanted and un gemed of course).

[Huntn]

oW is a great game, no question, but every game has its day. Subscriptions reportedly fell off a cliff after Wrath was released, and with Cataclysm, I'd say the shark has been decisively jumped and there's nowhere to go but down.


Realistically, I won't argue your point. I've got a L80 Tank that I'm working on gearing up to do Heroics and one of the things I wrote in a "WoW-Life After 60" article many years ago was that the WoW end game involved doing a relatively small number of dungeons over, and over, and over! Even though I have a lot of fun grouping with guildmates, I'm starting to notice WoW fatigue if I do the same dungeons too often. And for perspective, I took a 2 year break from Wow starting before the TBC expansion and restarted Dec08. That is primarily why I think I still have enthusiasm. There are people, I know people who are doing 25 player dungeons for hours on end, week after week. Honestly I don't know how they do it. :)

Wow has been and compared to the competition (I've tried) is still the best thing out there. Will millions tire of the WoW routine? Most certainly. What will be really curious is what about the next Blizzard MMO- will it be new and refreshing or some kind of WoW retread in the game-play department? That will be most enlightening, don't you think?

[HiRez]

What's up with that link? The downloader says it's "not authorized". Did Blizzard pull the video?

[Nermal]

Its probably gonna take a year at least untill we see it, but its still awosome.

In one of the panels, they said "next Blizzcon we're probably going to hear complaints about Goblin rogues being too OP in PvP", which would imply that they're planning to release it within a year.

Wrath was a bit lacklustre, so I got the distinct impression that they've been working in Cataclysm behind the scenes for some time. The demo at Blizzcon lacked polish though.

[DeSnousa]

Go figure just as I nearly get to 80 :rolleyes: At least its only to 85 this time.

[borcanm]

In one of the panels, they said "next Blizzcon we're probably going to hear complaints about Goblin rogues being too OP in PvP", which would imply that they're planning to release it within a year.

Wrath was a bit lacklustre, so I got the distinct impression that they've been working in Cataclysm behind the scenes for some time. The demo at Blizzcon lacked polish though.

Yea their setting the stage for the 4th expansion. Its gonna involve more races, a lvl 100 cap and all classes available to each race. Plus a larger world, alot more dungeons and items. And with that WoW will come to an end. But then their gonna release Warcraft 4, then 2 or 3 expansions and then their gonna make WoW 2.

[SilentPanda]

Spell power has been replaced with intellect. So what is the point it seems that 90% of the changes are to dumb down the game even more and 10% are on new content and improved graphics.

I think they are removing spell power (and several stats!) to get back to basics. You will still have spell power but it will be from your intellect instead of intellect & spell power. It makes the items easier to itemize and allows the items to be used by a class or two more if INT works differently on a different class. Hopefully I won't feel like I need a math degree anymore to figure out if an item is better or not.

With Wrath we have lost just about all the old time raiders in the guild. We kinda still want everything to be a challenge and worth earning. Even PVP now any twat that can run a heroic and run around in full deadly(un enchanted and un gemed of course).

They had to dumb down the content I think. It got to the point where it was just too difficult for the majority of the player base. And if you are creating content for the minority then it's not really worth creating. I think they are trying to fix this with the addition of hard modes so we'll see. I don't doubt that Blizzard lost the hardest of the hardcore but hopefully we'll see more "new hardcore" guilds for the new level of content.

In one of the panels, they said "next Blizzcon we're probably going to hear complaints about Goblin rogues being too OP in PvP", which would imply that they're planning to release it within a year.

Wrath was a bit lacklustre, so I got the distinct impression that they've been working in Cataclysm behind the scenes for some time. The demo at Blizzcon lacked polish though.

They had been working on Cataclysm since before Wrath's release. I hadn't heard the Goblin rogues quote so that's nice to know. Although they'll probably just push Blizzcon back! ;)

[DdMac679]

Hmm... I have mixed feeling about this. From looking at the material my opinion is that Warcraft is dying and that this is one of those last ditch efforts to draw back the income. I like the idea of what they are going to do with the old zones but with them changing a lot of what use to make classes and this game in general unique, well for me it's a large turnoff. I quit two months after Wrath because they made obtaining 'purple fever' way to easy to achieve and with Blizzards continuous flip flopping I can no longer see what made this game so great. I'll pass on this expansion and just wait for Blizzards upcoming releases and the other MMO's releasing next year.

[Huntn]

I think they are removing spell power (and several stats!) to get back to basics. You will still have spell power but it will be from your intellect instead of intellect & spell power. It makes the items easier to itemize and allows the items to be used by a class or two more if INT works differently on a different class. Hopefully I won't feel like I need a math degree anymore to figure out if an item is better or not.


I agree. In this example simpler is better although I see a more, lets say devoted group complaining that the game has been dumbed down. If I was to guess, it would be the majority of players are more casual than hardcore. :)

What's up with that link? The downloader says it's "not authorized". Did Blizzard pull the video?

It might be something on your end. I just tried it without any problems and I'm sitting in a hotel. I mention this because some hotels have placed bottle necks on some what I consider innocent download content.

[vampyr]

yeah... I can't download the HD video either... I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.

I can't wait to see a horde of goblins charging across Azeroth!!! LOL!

[digitard]

You know. I had cancelled my WoW account in anticipation of some other games... but it looks like I'm about to be sucked back in!

[ezekielrage_99]

I was sucked back into WoW with Return of the Lich Kings Wraith, but honestly I felt it was a waste of time/money/effort... I played it for about a month then gave up on it...

With the new release I am tempted to think the sames thing, there isn't really anything new here... Really new races, new models and revamped areas are cosmetic and overall don't add the the sense of game play.

The same mages will spam fireballs, the same rogues will stunlock, the same locks will dot while the same paladins will dance in BGs and complain about DPS...

Blizzard have a good formula but really aren't going to reinvent the wheel here, they need to make sure it sells but also have to ensure the new release don't compete.

[The Red Wolf]

See this is the reason behind why I roleplay vs. power gaming. Repeatedly grinding and doing the same raids over and over to get the top gear for your l337 level 85 Tauran Shaman with epic 9 gear specced out to slice and dice... Vs. your level 23 Tauran Shaman who has been phase shifted into the spirit realm due to an elemental wound from the great cataclysm. She knew it was coming. The fire was a warning... The very ground prate of Deathwings coming. She began to meditate when the unrelenting storm came... The Storm of Fire... Then her mind was lost to the Rage of the cry of the Worgen who are hungry for war and the screams of the goblins who poison the water with their engines of death... Only the wynds carry her spirit to the vale of ash where the Elves have healed the world... Moonsong is calling her to the glade where her body waits to be restored. Or Macro macro hack hack yes I got an 3p1kz!!!112 m0unt y3a! iW00t!!!1112

So... Roleplay and enjoy or game it up. Game = boring. Roleplaying uses the mind. I for one... Want to reroll my Night Elf Priestess who I left in Ashenvale who got bit in Felwood and killed by a Elite ??? wolf. Hmmm Worgen anyone? Yes yes.

www.systemdigitalforge.com

[Huntn]

Hmm... I have mixed feeling about this. From looking at the material my opinion is that Warcraft is dying and that this is one of those last ditch efforts to draw back the income. I like the idea of what they are going to do with the old zones but with them changing a lot of what use to make classes and this game in general unique, well for me it's a large turnoff. I quit two months after Wrath because they made obtaining 'purple fever' way to easy to achieve and with Blizzards continuous flip flopping I can no longer see what made this game so great. I'll pass on this expansion and just wait for Blizzards upcoming releases and the other MMO's releasing next year.

I can't tell you how representative my feelings are, but in the original WoW release once I hit 60, the prospect of having to do 40 player dungeon raids multiple times for gear was a real turn off. It was too much of a commitment. For me it was a very good thing that Blizzard created more 5 player dungeons, with relatively short encounters, and put purple gear in them. I never wanted to be a top ranked player, just to be able to hold my own in the small dungeons with some decent rewards. But as previously stated, I'm finding that participating in too many WoW dungeons, even if they are only 5 player gets old too.

[angelneo]

I played WoW back during vanilla, and I find it too hardcore for my taste. Spending hours in raids, and more time grinding for items is just too much for me. Playing as a druid wasn't fun as well. I quit and came back for BC. BC is just a pleasant surprise, raid was more fun and so do 5 man dungeons, classes have more options than before, Epic items are not that hard to get but not that easy either. However, I find Wrath too boring, not exactly sure why but I lost the drive to play in Wrath. Items sure drop like candies now.

[huck500]

I've been playing since before BC, and I've quit a couple of times. I came back because a bunch of friends started playing, and I'm enjoying doing 5-man instances and 10-man raids now.

To people who say that WoW is dying, I'm not sure what you base that on. There are games with 1/10th the user base (or less) that are making money... it would take a lot of people leaving to make WoW unprofitable... like millions.

The endless questing/grinding has become old, but with Lich King blizzard started something new; phasing. The Death Knight starting quests and the Dragon's Blight quest that took you to Orgrimmar and Undercity were hopefully indications of a new direction for WoW.

With phasing they can make the landscape/story change according to your actions. At Blizzcon they talked a lot about it and showed screenshots of areas that would change during a quest line. I don't expect every quest to be phased, obviously, but since they are making a much more linear questing path in the expansion they'll probably advance an overall storyline as you go using the technology.

Also, I played the Goblin starting area at Blizzcon (starting at lvl 6) and it was far from unpolished. It looked great, and from what I saw of the Worgen quests they're taking a much more story-oriented direction with the new races.

I'll be picking it up to play through the new content anyway, but I have high hopes that Blizzard is moving in the right direction.

And I just don't see what's going to be the 'next big thing'; it's going to be very hard for anything to compete with WoW after 5 years of tuning. The other games I've played are almost unbearably crude compared to WoW. I hope I'm wrong... I'm crossing my fingers for KOTOR or Star Trek.

[DdMac679]

To people who say that WoW is dying, I'm not sure what you base that on. There are games with 1/10th the user base (or less) that are making money... it would take a lot of people leaving to make WoW unprofitable... like millions.

My dying comment is not about the subscriber base but more on content originality. Oh I am sure Warcraft is going to chug on for several more years w/o any major issues but for me Blizzard has lost that wow factor in their game and I swear Activision has something to do with it. The original release brought me years of endless fun in which we saw tweak after tweak making the game slightly easier to achieve items. Heck we all remember how hard it was to save 1000g for our epics our how about running UBRS and Scholo in 15/10-man groups or spending months months gearing Tier 1 to go raid Tier 2 and so on.

Now with Wrath there wasn't much for me to stick around for. Everything is so achievement based and super easy to get. Heck by the time you hit 80 w/o finishing the majority of quests your greens and a few blues allowed you to run dungeons that you wouldn't even thought of attempting in BC. So after a month or two of endless 5-mans and gearing like nuts in purples what really is there left to do other than run the same dungeons over and over again on your alts which seem to bring no real challenge. All I see with this next expansion is a lack of idea on new content with the attempt to stretch out the subscriber base until the next MMO's come out in 2010. Which I am sure they will loose business to.

[Bimmi]

I don't think it's dying – if Blizzard's other games are any indicator, there will still be official WoW servers running ten years from now – but I think the subscriber base peaked some time ago and is unlikely to ever regain the sort of numbers it had at its height.

[Huntn]

I'm wondering how "phasing" will affect the original areas of WoW when you buy the Cataclysm expansion? My understanding of phasing is that it is an instanced space such as the Death Knight starter area and I know from personal experience that other players are there too so it's not a locked area like a dungeon, where only your party can enter but it is available only to those doing what you are doing.

Ok, so they are gonna rip up Azeroth. Let's say you have a range of toons from 10-80. I assume your level 10 will see nothing different in the original part of the game, but what will your 80 see? Will they never be able to go back to the original part of the game? And what if they want to help out a low level friend, can or can't they? In WotLK, I have seen phasing issues on quest lines, where you have friends at your level when they come to help you, when they get to your location, they can't see you because you are in a quest related phased space.

[TSE]

WoW is going down a very slow end of the road. It's probably going to remain the biggest MMORPG for atleast 5 more years, but it's never going to get bigger, only smaller.

They are doing what almost every death of an MMORPG is caused by, they are dumbing the game down, trying to fix what isn't broken, and ignoring their older fanbase.

[topgunn]

Ok, so they are gonna rip up Azeroth. Let's say you have a range of toons from 10-80. I assume your level 10 will see nothing different in the original part of the game, but what will your 80 see?
When Cataclysm comes out, the world will be changed for everyone. It doesn't matter if you have vanilla WoW, BC, WotLK or Cataclysm; everyone will see the new world layout.

Phasing will occur but not but not to the scale that the Barrens will be whole for a level 10 and destroyed for a level 80. One instance they mentioned was the shoreline at Darkshore. As you progress through the questline, the shoreline continues to move higher up the terrain. The 3D model of the world will be the same for everyone; only graphic elements, buildings, NPC's and such will change via phasing (think Icecrown).

[huck500]

They are doing what almost every death of an MMORPG is caused by, they are dumbing the game down, trying to fix what isn't broken, and ignoring their older fanbase.

They are certainly making it easier to access end-game content, and I know people who enjoyed being part of the relatively small group who did 40-man raids in vanilla WoW might be upset by that, but I quit the game the first time because I was shut out of that content and had nothing to do. Even now I hate doing 25-man raids because it seems like when you get 25 people together in a videogame, a certain percentage are going to be pretty horrible people.

The only reason I still play is because I can do end-game content with my wife and three friends or with 9 people from an adult guild. I have tier gear now, which I never had even in BC. My guild just downed Freya for the first time, and that was really gratifying... and I really don't see how that fight is 'dumbed down', it's pretty frigging difficult. And if it's not, there's a hard mode, too.

Personally, I think Blizzard is focusing on the majority of their players and making content more accessible, and with a greater range of difficulty. There are still very few guilds that have killed all the hard-mode bosses.

And to those saying WoW subscribership is down... it's actually holding steady at 11.5 million right now.

[AndyCodez]

With Wrath we have lost just about all the old time raiders in the guild. We kinda still want everything to be a challenge and worth earning. Even PVP now any twat that can run a heroic and run around in full deadly(un enchanted and un gemed of course).

I used to raid Ony, BWL, MC back in the day... It was a lot of fun, but there were many negative aspects to the challenge and the length of the raids. I'll say that seeing and killing Ragnaros for the first time was amazing.

Back then I also had much more time to play. In college I had so much free time to play and gear out my toons! These days i get maybe an hour or 2 a night to play and that really doesn't accomplish too much. Do a couple of heroics or do some pvp no real time to get in to a raid that has more then 5 bosses.

They made wrath so easy to get into. I can pop on the weekend and pug a raid and complete most or all of the raid, lots of non raids to complete and get gear. I don't have to play 24/7 to get my pvp gears, do WG and a couple of bg's and get tokens to get some gear.

Overall I enjoy wow much more with Blizz dumbing down the game. Except I really don't like the 1092380129830192831092831 Deathknights everywhere lol.

Anyway here is links to a couple current and past toons:
80 Paladin Tank/Ret (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Anetheron&n=Stmichael)

80 Shaman Elemental/ Resto (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Anetheron&n=Sandwitches)

70 Rogue (Old School raider i hit 70 and havn't really touched (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thrall&n=Sandwiches)

[Huntn]

When Cataclysm comes out, the world will be changed for everyone. It doesn't matter if you have vanilla WoW, BC, WotLK or Cataclysm; everyone will see the new world layout.

Phasing will occur but not but not to the scale that the Barrens will be whole for a level 10 and destroyed for a level 80. One instance they mentioned was the shoreline at Darkshore. As you progress through the questline, the shoreline continues to move higher up the terrain. The 3D model of the world will be the same for everyone; only graphic elements, buildings, NPC's and such will change via phasing (think Icecrown).

Thanks for the explanation! :)

[Randman]

I've done just about it all in the game. From raids back when UBRS was a 15-man through current heroic content in ToC-25. More and more, I've gotten bored with it. I pretty much ignore PvP these days. I haven't leveled more than 2 toons up to 80 though both are in nice epics.

I like a few things like Goblins. And I may try the race/faction change on a toon but I think I'll hang on and just play casually once Arthas is deaded.

[Bimmi]

And to those saying WoW subscribership is down... it's actually holding steady at 11.5 million right now.

When I started playing in 2007, Blizzard claimed 8 million WoW subscribers; less than six months later that figure grew to 10 million, with 11 following shortly thereafter. The numbers since then appear to be largely unchanged, despite the launch of a major expansion and its accompanying patches. The subscriber base has almost unquestionably peaked.

WoW is nearly five years old. Just about everyone who's ever thought about playing it has done so at this point. People who've been playing for years are getting bored and putting it away. If Wrath failed to bring in a significant number of new subscriptions I see little chance that Cataclysm will either.

Again, for all the changes they're bringing to the table, there's nothing there that makes me want to play this game for another year.

[Cabbit]

I would be happy if they just gave us a new Zul Aman, that gave me my giggles twice a week.

[Nermal]

Phasing will occur but not but not to the scale that the Barrens will be whole for a level 10 and destroyed for a level 80. One instance they mentioned was the shoreline at Darkshore. As you progress through the questline, the shoreline continues to move higher up the terrain. The 3D model of the world will be the same for everyone; only graphic elements, buildings, NPC's and such will change via phasing (think Icecrown).

They mentioned that terrain elevation will also be phased now, so it's a bit more involved than Icecrown. But still, it's not going to be phasing entire zones.

[Huntn]

They mentioned that terrain elevation will also be phased now, so it's a bit more involved than Icecrown. But still, it's not going to be phasing entire zones.

I don't have a good handle on phasing other that it is an instanced space. I assume who you can see in someplace like Darkshore (a phased location) is based on what part of a quest line you are?

[Nermal]

You will only be able to see other players in the same "time period" as yourself. Usually (always?) you will progress through phases via quests.